Dear Greg, Jünger was an anarchist, but he refused to include in his late conceptions the use of violence for social or political means or the use of violence as an instrument for political and social change. So he was a contemplative, non-violent anarchist, and this is for me the only valid and lasting form of anarchism. Yours, Klaus
--- Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo.com> schrieb am Mo, 21.12.2009: Von: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo.com> Betreff: [juenger_org] ' Revolutionaries', 'Traditionalists' and 'Conservatives' An: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Datum: Montag, 21. Dezember 2009, 14:52 Some interesting reflections there on the 'Anarch' and 'the traditional' Simon. I see that one of the over riding impressions you have after watching is that Ellul clearly is a 'traditionalist' , specifically perhaps in that he respects certain traditional values and aspects within diverse cultures and religions. I have the same impression of his views -- which was why I earlier referred to him as being both 'revolutionary' and 'conservative' -- I was not, of course, absurdly suggesting that Ellul was in any way conceptually or historically connected to thinkers like Schmitt, Spengler, Juenger etc, but rather, my response was more in tune with your own more general use of terminology. I am not speaking solely of the 'Revolutionary Conservative Movement' in Germany post WW1 here, but using those words in wider semantic terms now : I wonder to what degree such terms as 'revolutionary' and 'conservative' -- are culturally loaded and perceived differently when considered through quite distinct cultural, historical and social prisms ? For example, I live in Korea, and interestingly enough, there was a very strong active and definitely 'revolutionary' Anarchist movement here, from the 1890's to the 1940's , partially inspired by Propaganda of the deed, Russian nihilists, as well as Stirner, Kropotkin and Bakunin -- However, interestingly enough, these Korean Anarchists are not commonly remembered as unconventional figures here, but rather, as vigorously nationalist, highly conservative, traditional figures, and are still highly venerated as such within a highly Conservative society and culture. I still find it an odd experience nowadays to hear Koreans, young and old, speaking of these Korean Anarchists -- as Conservatives and Traditionalists -- with a capital 'C'. In any other culture, one simply does not hear of Anarchists defined as, and discussed as being Conservatives. A final thought, still on the theme of ' Revolutionaries' , 'Traditionalists' and 'Conservatives' -- does Juenger's interest in Max Stirner and his development of the concept of 'The Anarch' in any way qualify him as an 'Anarchist?' I do not know enough about Juenger to even begin to answer that. Greg. --- On Mon, 21/12/09, Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> wrote: From: Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> Subject: [juenger_org] Comments on Ellul and technology To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Date: Monday, 21 December, 2009, 12:24 Thanks for the tip about Ellul, Greg. I listened to the whole thing. Whatever else he may have done, the impression from the documentary is not that of an anarchist. He evidently values traditional societies - it is just our own technological one that he objects to. An anarch? - I don't know what the "small actions" are that he talks of at the end. Anyhow, a few reflections of my own on the video.... Ellul relates that in certain middle age societies, a rule regarding technology existed which forbad the use of iron tools in working the earth. Although these were undoubtedly more efficient, the earth was considered a mother and the use of hard tools would have hurt her. In the light of our unrestrained use of technology, we may think such a rule ridiculous and yet when we look at how mining (and mechanized agriculture) have degraded and impoverished the earth in the last centuries, we understand that there was a real sense to this rule. Respected, it would have prevented the rape of the earth that we have witnessed in recent centuries. Back then the extent to which our "iron" technology would progress would have been inconceivable - and probably considered demonic. Yet even in consideration of their own simple technology, these civilizations followed a principle which protected the earth and ultimately also them. We can learn from this that technology requires the guidance of principles - even when it seems that little damage will be done. One never knows to what extent a technological development may progress. A principle protects one from this danger. It allows stability to develop in a system - 'thus far and no further'. That is to say, restraining principles applied to technology allow that "sustainability" to develop which so entrances our minds and fill our rhetoric these days. It is not more and better technology that will bring back sustainability - it is new principles for its use. Whether these are religiously or rationally-based is irrelevent - religious ones would probably work better for the masses. Simon http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com ( Interestingly, his point that the modern world is governed by the reflex, while the traditional one was governed by the cultivated wisdom of reflection in some ways reproduces Gurdjieff's contrast between mechanical knowing and conscious understanding. Ordinary mechanical knowledge of anything is based on an internal interaction between two opposing previously-register ed impressions/ thoughts regarding the subject, with the result of this interaction being determined by the next new impression that happens to be received on this subject. Conscious understanding on the other hand is the result of the comparison of the newest impression with ALL previous impressions on the subject, with the interaction being mediated by the will to come to an independent personal conclusion on the matter - to have an individual understanding that is. In Ellul's terms, modern technological society merely reacts sequentially to the latest impression, coming to a temporary conclusion which will be surplanted by the next random input - its path is guided by the last random information that it receives, which mechanically changes what it previously held true. It possesses merely updated and changing information, rather than growing cognition.) Von: klaus gauger <klaus_gauger@ yahoo.com> An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de Gesendet: Montag, den 21. Dezember 2009, 11:51:49 Uhr Betreff: AW: [juenger_org] FG Juenger (and 'anti technology') und Ozzy Osbourne und Ernst Jünger Hi Simon, these are good news. This book from F.G. Jünger impressed me a lot and it is worth to be translated in such an important language like English. Yours, Klaus P.S.: Lieber TW, wie ich gerade festgestellt habe, stehen die Privatadressen der Mitglieder bei den Mails in der Liste sowieso immer dabei. Insofern kann man Privatgespräche immer auf Privatadressen umleiten. Aber Ozzy Osbourne ist nicht so weit weg von Ernst Jünger wie Sie vielleicht glauben: Er ist auch ein "Abenteuerliches Herz" und hat mit Drogen experimentiert, wie Jünger auch, und seine Musik ist, wie Ernst Jüngers Literatur auch, ein Produkt des Lebens des Autors. Ich würde es mal so sagen: Wäre Ernst Jünger als britisches Unterschichtenkind in Nordengland nach dem Zweiten Weltkrieg geboren worden, wäre er vielleicht ein Heavy-Metal- Musiker geworden und hätte auf der Bühne "Schwermetallgewitt er" produziert. --- Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> schrieb am Mo, 21.12.2009: Von: Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> Betreff: [juenger_org] FG Juenger (and 'anti technology') An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de Datum: Montag, 21. Dezember 2009, 11:32 Hi Greg, Joel, Klaus, Tobias etc, Glad you reawakened the list from its winterschlaf! To get back on topic ;-) I just got this email from Alethes Press regarding republication of The Failure of Technology. Dear Mr. Friedrich, Yes, we will be publishing The Perfection of Technology, in a new translation from the 4th and final German edition--sometime in spring 2010. We've had (and are still going through) some major reorganization for the rest of 2009 and early 2010; which frankly explains the delay in getting the book out and in getting back to you--for which we apologize. The horrible economy hasn't helped at all, as you can imagine. Many, many thanks. Alethes Press Simon http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com Von: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de Gesendet: Samstag, den 19. Dezember 2009, 6:19:31 Uhr Betreff: [juenger_org] Juenger and 'anti technology' Hello everyone. Since recent discussion has been about Juenger and Heidegger's views on technology, I thought I'd send a link to Jacques Ellul's 'anti technology' interviews. I know little about Jacques Ellul -- he was an anarchist, but also a contemplative ( similarities to Tolstoy's Anarchism particularly inspired by Sermon on the Mount perhaps? ). Judging from the interview, he could also be viewed as a 'revolutionary conservative' , though I know that some object to that term ,considering it as inherently semantically incongruous. Anyway, the film is most certainly naive, and definitely dated in places -- but there are perhaps some gems here that the boarders may enjoy. http://www.rerunpro ducties.nl/ film%20ellul.htm Greg. --- On Wed, 18/11/09, Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> wrote: From: Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> Subject: AW: [juenger_org] Juenger and German mysticism To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Date: Wednesday, 18 November, 2009, 10:03 Thanks for the interesting reflections, Greg. Certainly the writings of true mystics must resemble each other - the paths converge near the peak. But I'm out of my depth when it comes to Buddhist scripture. Coincidentally I'm reading Aldous Huxley's "The Perennial Philosophy" at the moment - from what I understand of your interests and background, you'd find it fascinating. You'll find much comparison in this book between German mystics and Buddhism. Comparative mysticism from the point of view of a broadly-read near-mystic himself. Huxley was certainly on the level of Juenger - perhaps not in terms of action, but certainly in terms of insight. Simon http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com Von: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de Gesendet: Mittwoch, den 18. November 2009, 3:32:04 Uhr Betreff: [juenger_org] Juenger and German mysticism Simon, that's fantastic -- thanks very much indeed for the translation. I am really gaining a lot from these pages, and I really appreciate you sending it. Bear in mind I am really new to Juenger and know little about his work -- I have only been reading him for around six months, but a lot of what I have read recently reminds me so much of early Theravada thought, as exemplified by the Tripitaka ( The Sutta Collections ). I do not know that much at all about historical connections, but I do believe these Theravada Suttas had influence in German thought -- Wasn't Schopenhauer very interested in early Theravada concepts and Advaita Vedanta? ( I believe that's why he was always dismissed by many British academics as being 'negative' and 'nihilistic' ) Or has that awareness and state of mind long been in 'the German psyche', existing quite separately from Schopenhauer' s interest in those texts ? I am thinking here of men like Silesius and Meister Eckhardt, whose perspectives on the world and man had strong similarities to Thervadin thought and Advaita Vedanta -- but clearly had no connection whatsoever to those texts, and had no immediate historical influence from those specific texts: Those perceptions already existed within schools of German mysticism and in other European schools of thought. Just some thoughts -- these are just some instinctive responses and speculations. Thanks again Simon -- fantastic work. Greg. --- On Mon, 16/11/09, Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> wrote: From: Simon Friedrich <simonfriedrich@ yahoo.de> Subject: [juenger_org] An der Zollstation To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Date: Monday, 16 November, 2009, 9:48 Sorry, here's the attachment refered to. Simon http://ernst- juenger.blogspot .com Von: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de Gesendet: Samstag, den 14. November 2009, 7:27:13 Uhr Betreff: [juenger_org] War and human response. And here is a further link related to the earlier one . It makes for frightening, chilling reading, but I consider it relevant not only to Junger's early work, but also relevant especially in the light of recent events in USA. http://findarticles .com/p/articles/ mi_m0EXI/ is_2_19/ai_ 84542213/ ?tag=content; col1 Greg. --- On Sat, 14/11/09, Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> wrote: From: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> Subject: [juenger_org] Juenger and Cosmic Insight. To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Date: Saturday, 14 November, 2009, 6:13 Dear group, I have been reading our web master Dr. King's interesting work on Juenger, and carefully noting his bibliography and footnotes too. It makes for intriguing reading, and since we have been discussing the negative effects of technology and appalling psychological effects of industrial scale wars, I thought I'd circulate the following , sourced from Dr. King's footnotes. http://www.timeshig hereducation. co.uk/story. asp?storyCode= 158517§ioncode=22 It reminded me of some of the ( often appalling and frightening ) themes in "Storm of Steel." On the point of "Storm of Steel" , I notice in the closing chapters, Ernst Juenger seems to have had insights into the significance of death on a number of occasions when he is badly wounded. I'd like to ask board contributors' views on these 'flash insights' he seems to have had when he believed himself to be 'close to' his own death -- are these insights expanded upon in later books? To what extent does he explore the insights further? I am so busy now, but will get page refs later -- basically I refer to occasions when he was shot at or bombed and in those moments was convinced he was going to die, and seemed to have experienced penetrating insights into 'mortality and the cosmos' at those precise moments. All the best, Greg. --- On Tue, 1/9/09, John King <jejk...@yahoo. de> wrote: From: John King <jejk...@yahoo. de> Subject: AW: [juenger_org] WG: Yahoo! Groups: Willkommen bei juenger_org. Schauen Sie herein. To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 15:01 Personally I'd say the next thing to read would be "On the Marble Cliffs", the classic novel of "Inner Emigration" from 1939. Regards, jk Von: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> An: juenger_org@ yahoogroups. de Gesendet: Dienstag, den 1. September 2009, 15:50:05 Uhr Betreff: Re: [juenger_org] WG: Yahoo! Groups: Willkommen bei juenger_org. Schauen Sie herein. John, thanks for your rapid response. I am fascinated by Junger, and want to see what the long term readers have to say and advice they give as to reading lists -- As for myself, I read very widely. I wouldn't define my reading as either "left" or "right" wing, since I have never found those labels adequate to describe human experience. However, I'd say I have always been intrigued by authors who have certainly left their mark on history, but in some sense, were always indefinable fringe characters. My reading ranges from obscure Dadaists, to Italian Futurists, to Greek philosophy ( Stoicism, & Heraclitus in particular ) to Hindu Scripture ( Advaita Vedanta ) the Theravada Suttas , to Meister Eckhart and Schopenhauer , La Rochefoucauld and Baudrillard etc. Thanks for your advice, in particular, regarding ON PAIN. Bear in mind I have only read STORM OF STEEL and am absolutely speechless it's so great. Will ON PAIN be a good next step? Greg. --- On Tue, 1/9/09, John King <jejk...@yahoo. de> wrote: From: John King <jejk...@yahoo. de> Subject: [juenger_org] WG: Yahoo! Groups: Willkommen bei juenger_org. Schauen Sie herein. To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 11:34 PM Anyone got suggestions for Mr Whitfield? jk ----- Weitergeleitete Mail ---- Von: Gregory Whitfield <gregd...@yahoo. com> An: juenger_org Moderator <juenger_org- ow...@yahoogroup s.de> Gesendet: Dienstag, den 1. September 2009, 14:41:54 Uhr Betreff: Re: Yahoo! Groups: Willkommen bei juenger_org. Schauen Sie herein. Hi -- I am new to Ernst Jünger , and I am trying to catch up on his works -- I can't believe I have missed someone so amazing. I was very influenced by Max Stirner et al, so he works well with my background so to speak. I have been reading STORM OF STEEL and I am enthralled -- what is the next best book to read? What do you all think of ON PAIN ? It looks good, but I am a little reluctant to spend a lot of cash on it if it's only 90 pages -- but, if it's essential reading of course, money is no issue. Advice please? Thanks. --- On Tue, 1/9/09, juenger_org Moderator <juenger_org- ow...@yahoogroup s.de> wrote: From: juenger_org Moderator <juenger_org- ow...@yahoogroup s.de> Subject: Yahoo! Groups: Willkommen bei juenger_org. Schauen Sie herein. To: juenger_org@yahoogroups.de Date: Tuesday, 1 September, 2009, 10:35 PM Willkommen in der Group juenger_org bei Yahoo! Groups. Ihre Group wartet auf Sie, schauen Sie also bald herein. Und probieren Sie aus, wie einfach und dazu noch kostenlos Sie sich austauschen und informieren können: * Sie wählen, wann und wie Sie in Kontakt bleiben. * Nutzen Sie Fotos, Dateien, Umfragen, Kalender, Links und vieles mehr gemeinsam mit anderen Mitgliedern. * Überfliegen Sie schnell neue Beiträge und durchsuchen ausführliche Beitragsarchive. * Und Sie haben viele weitere Möglichkeiten, sich mitzuteilen. Rund um die Uhr! Legen Sie also los! Besuchen Sie jetzt die Group juenger_org. http://us.rd. yahoo.com/ evt=42879/ *http://de. groups.yahoo. com/group/ juenger_org Viele Grüße, Moderator juenger_org Mit der Nutzung von Yahoo! Groups stimmen Sie den http://de.docs. yahoo.com/ info/utos. html zu. ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail. yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail. yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail. yahoo.com ____________ _________ _________ _________ _________ __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! 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