Simon Eugster <[email protected]> wrote > Would anyone object to switching to wikibooks now?
Maybe it is worth to consider UserBase ( http://userbase.kde.org )? It is closely related to KDE, it has translation (both offline and online) capabilities (TranslateWiki extension), and automatic docbook generation capabilities (in development) for offline documentation. > > As I've seen, we don't have an offline documentation anyway. Or am I > mistaken? When clicking the menu entry Help > Kdenlive Handbook I get > redirected to http://kdenlive.org/user-manual. Which is mainly at the > state of 2008. > > @Hugh: I would wote «Pro» for GSoC. > > Simon > > 2010/7/20 Jan Dr?bek <[email protected]>: > > Hi, > > in my opinion, installed help is considerable after having some > > documentation which was revisited by users, heavily used and cover whole > > Kdenlive (it looks like utopia now). Creating only online accessable > > documentation will certainly upset some people, but most of today users have > > good internet connection - so I see it acceptable. > > > > Structure is of wikibook is linearized (I have not been so courage to make > > it structured) so I attach also non-linearized version which I originally > > used in my work. > > > > Jan Dr?bek > > > > The original structure: > > > > > > Introduction > > > > What this book is about, and for users it is > > Terminology > > Typographics conventions > > > > Before start > > > > Introduction, what can it do > > Dictionary > > History and present > > Development > > Installation > > > > Gentoo > > Debian > > Fedora > > Ubuntu > > OpenSuSE > > Mandriva > > ArchLinux > > FreeBSD > > MacOS > > > > First project and recording > > > > First run > > Introduction with user interface > > > > Project structure > > Monitors > > History (undo) > > > > New project > > > > Project settings > > > > Video recording > > > > Video4Linux > > Firewire > > Screen recording > > > > Timeline and first cut > > > > Timeline and its tools > > > > Timeline > > Selection > > Cursor of timeline > > Cut > > Spacer > > > > First cut > > > > Cut from beginning/end > > Fade in/out (audio) > > Add translation > > Basic settings of translations > > > > Translations and effect > > > > Translations > > > > Keyframes > > Default translations > > > > Effect > > > > Handling effects > > List of effects > > > > Orientation in project, other types of clips > > > > Useful smallness > > > > Guides > > Markers > > Split view (monitor) > > Working with tracks > > Group clips > > > > Different types of clips > > > > Color clip > > Generated clip (noise, countdown) > > Slideshow > > Subtitles > > > > FInishing project > > > > Render > > > > Timeline selection > > Render form > > > > Creating DVD > > > > Advanced functions > > > > Batches > > Reencoding > > Project cleaning > > Managing project profiles > > Downloading new lumas files > > Managing rendering profiles > > > > At the end > > > > Other materials > > Other video editors > > > > > > > > > > > > 2010/7/20 Hugh Tebby <[email protected]> > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> Considering the installed help, I'm not sure it should be a criteria for > >> choosing the online documentation system. The help could just send users > >> the > >> the online documentation, like what is done in Blender for instance. Having > >> links to online documentation, video tutorials and the forum should be good > >> enough. > >> > >> The main issue with the documentation is covering the whole app and (most > >> of all) keeping it up to date. A wiki seems to me like the best solution, > >> and the most common. The Blender wiki is quite good I find : > >> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Main_Page > >> > >> We should really decide what structure to give to the user manual and then > >> have one documentation which could be translated to other languages. > >> > >> Jan, could you provide a translation at least of the titles of your > >> wikibook ? It would help understand and discuss (and hopefully enhance !) > >> the structure. > >> > >> Also in order to maybe get a stronger community we could have a look at > >> OpenShot, or Krita. OpenShot actually started building a community before > >> the app was available ! (via Facebook for instance). One thing that is > >> great > >> about OpenShot and Krita is that their websites are also development blogs. > >> Krita has a weekly development summary which is a great read, and Openshot > >> has regular updates for enhancements and new features. > >> > >> Could Kdenlive (or maybe MLT...) also participate in the Google Summer of > >> Code next year ? A couple of full time devs would make quite a difference ! > >> Recently Krita had a fundraising in order to pay one of their devs full > >> time > >> for several months in order to optimize and stabilize the app, and it > >> worked > >> great ! I would certainly be willing to throw in a couple of dozens dozens > >> to get two or three months of full-time Kdenlive development ! (but I > >> suppose that also means finding a developper that has a few months of spare > >> time...) > >> > >> > >> Anyway, just a few thoughts ! > >> > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Hugh > >> > >> > >> 2010/7/20 Simon Eugster <[email protected]> > >>> > >>> 2010/7/19 Yuri Chornoivan <[email protected]>: > >>> > написане Mon, 19 Jul 2010 05:13:44 +0300, Dan Dennedy > >>> > <[email protected]>: > >>> > > >>> >> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Till Theato <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > >>> >>> Hash: SHA1 > >>> >>> > >>> >>> On 07/18/2010 07:19 PM, Jan Dr?bek wrote: > >>> >>>> Hi, > >>> >>>> I have just finished putting my Kdenlive manual (in czech) into > >>> >>>> wikibooks (I > >>> >>>> mentioned that I wrote it as my secondary school leaving project in > >>> >>>> forum). > >>> >>>> So now czech manual is complete, visible and searchable from google > >>> >>>> and I am > >>> >>>> going to update it regulary. > >>> >>>> Feel to browse it on address http://cs.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kdenlive > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> I am wondering if it would be possible to add a visible link to > >>> >>>> kdenlive.orgdocumentation page mentioning this complete manual for > >>> >>>> czech users.l (I did > >>> >>>> this on czech community pages) > >>> >>>> > >>> >>>> Thanks > >>> >>>> Jan Dr?bek > >>> >>> > >>> >>> Hi, > >>> >>> I don't understand the language but it seems to feature quite a lot. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> There recently have been discussions about moving the documentation > >>> >>> back > >>> >>> to a wiki, so maybe we could you use wikibooks for all languages. > >>> >>> I will post this thread in our forum, so hopefully we will be able to > >>> >>> set up a better documentation in a few more languages (or at least in > >>> >>> English, too). > >>> >>> > >>> >>> @jb: Where would you like the documentation to be placed? Our current > >>> >>> Drupal system doesn't seem to be the best solution. > >>> >>> > >>> >>> regards till > >>> >> > >>> >> Keep in mind that some people expect and use installed help as well. > >>> >> Most wiki-based documentation systems do not make it convenient to > >>> >> output XML to support that. For Kino, I enhanced a wiki that uses > >>> >> docbook XML as a backend and could perfectly export to installed help. > >>> >> It also supported multiple languages, but the big downside is that it > >>> >> only supports ISO-8859-1 and not UTF-8! It might be worthwhile for > >>> >> someone leading documentation to look into these this aspect of it. If > >>> >> the options are still not good, then some documentation regardless of > >>> >> installable or not is better than none. > >>> >> > >>> > > >>> > Hi! > >>> > > >>> > In fact, we have similar problems with KDE UserBase. Burkhard L?ck > >>> > created > >>> > the script [1] that can easily convert wiki export data to KDE docbook. > >>> > You can see the exported Parley manual on docs.kde.org [2] (glitches > >>> > are > >>> > due to docs.kde.org problems, not the problems in docbook itself, > >>> > locally > >>> > it looks good). > >>> > > >>> > I have just tried it on wikibooks pages (English and Czech in UTF-8) > >>> > and > >>> > it seems that the script works fine. Thus wiki -> KDE DocBook > >>> > conversion > >>> > can be done with the minimal efforts. > >>> > > >>> > Best regards, > >>> > Yuri > >>> > > >>> > [1] > >>> > > >>> > http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/doc/parley/wiki2docbook.py?revision=1141465&view=markup > >>> > [2] http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdeedu/parley/index.html > >>> > >>> I think a good manual is very important for kdenlive: > >>> 1 There are often quite basic questions on the IRC and in the forums. > >>> 2 It would make users more aware of kdenlive > >>> 3 It would show how many possibilities you have. > >>> > >>> To the last point, I for example did not know that you could set > >>> in/out points of clips when they are still in the project list until > >>> there was a bug report in mantis about this. > >>> > >>> To point one, recent questions were e.g.: How do I cut two clips at > >>> the same position? How can I render just a piece of the video? What is > >>> the difference between the project profile and the render profile? How > >>> do I get transparent titles? > >>> > >>> The current solution was a good attempt, and it would have been great > >>> if it had worked, but unfortunately it did not: > >>> http://kdenlive.org/user-manual > >>> > >>> Switching back to wikibooks might have the advantage of a larger user > >>> base that is already registered. But could we still export then? > >>> The second advantage is the Czech manual that already is there. > >>> > >>> Would there be big disadvantages of using wikibooks? > >>> > >>> > >>> Another thought, we need a stronger community. Perhaps we should have > >>> a direct link to the forums in the title navbar on kdenlive.org? (Imho > >>> it is a little bit hidden atm; most users will expect it to be there.) > >>> Having a stronger community would also decrease the waiting time for > >>> answers in the forum, increase the number of tutorials, etc. We need > >>> some community expert :) > >>> > >>> > >>> Just my thoughts. > >>> > >>> Simon > >>> > >>> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint > >>> What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? > >>> Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Kdenlive-devel mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint > >> What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? > >> Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Kdenlive-devel mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel > >> > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint > > What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? > > Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first > > _______________________________________________ > > Kdenlive-devel mailing list > > [email protected] > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the > Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share > of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. 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