написане Sun, 01 Aug 2010 13:53:08 +0300, Jan Drábek <[email protected]>:
> Hi, > userbase.kde.org looks too simple for such complex documentation like > Kdenlive certainly is. So far I tried to find page which has subpages, > however I was not successful - I tried about 10 of pages and there were > "all-in-one-page". Please can you show me where it is different? UserBase lacks subpage feature for the Main namespace now. There's a plan to fix it, because you are not the only one who find it very useful. ;) http://userbase.kde.org/Kexi/Handbook You can bug the admins on #kde-www on freenode.net. These people fix the bugs very fast. :) Yuri > Jan D. > > 2010/8/1 Yuri Chornoivan <[email protected]> > >> Simon Eugster <[email protected]> wrote >> > Would anyone object to switching to wikibooks now? >> >> Maybe it is worth to consider UserBase ( http://userbase.kde.org )? >> >> It is closely related to KDE, it has translation (both offline and >> online) >> capabilities (TranslateWiki extension), and automatic docbook generation >> capabilities (in development) for offline documentation. >> >> > >> > As I've seen, we don't have an offline documentation anyway. Or am I >> > mistaken? When clicking the menu entry Help > Kdenlive Handbook I get >> > redirected to http://kdenlive.org/user-manual. Which is mainly at the >> > state of 2008. >> > >> > @Hugh: I would wote «Pro» for GSoC. >> > >> > Simon >> > >> > 2010/7/20 Jan Dr?bek <[email protected]>: >> > > Hi, >> > > in my opinion, installed help is considerable after having some >> > > documentation which was revisited by users, heavily used and cover >> whole >> > > Kdenlive (it looks like utopia now). Creating only online accessable >> > > documentation will certainly upset some people, but most of today >> users >> have >> > > good internet connection - so I see it acceptable. >> > > >> > > Structure is of wikibook is linearized (I have not been so courage >> to >> make >> > > it structured) so I attach also non-linearized version which I >> originally >> > > used in my work. >> > > >> > > Jan Dr?bek >> > > >> > > The original structure: >> > > >> > > >> > > Introduction >> > > >> > > What this book is about, and for users it is >> > > Terminology >> > > Typographics conventions >> > > >> > > Before start >> > > >> > > Introduction, what can it do >> > > Dictionary >> > > History and present >> > > Development >> > > Installation >> > > >> > > Gentoo >> > > Debian >> > > Fedora >> > > Ubuntu >> > > OpenSuSE >> > > Mandriva >> > > ArchLinux >> > > FreeBSD >> > > MacOS >> > > >> > > First project and recording >> > > >> > > First run >> > > Introduction with user interface >> > > >> > > Project structure >> > > Monitors >> > > History (undo) >> > > >> > > New project >> > > >> > > Project settings >> > > >> > > Video recording >> > > >> > > Video4Linux >> > > Firewire >> > > Screen recording >> > > >> > > Timeline and first cut >> > > >> > > Timeline and its tools >> > > >> > > Timeline >> > > Selection >> > > Cursor of timeline >> > > Cut >> > > Spacer >> > > >> > > First cut >> > > >> > > Cut from beginning/end >> > > Fade in/out (audio) >> > > Add translation >> > > Basic settings of translations >> > > >> > > Translations and effect >> > > >> > > Translations >> > > >> > > Keyframes >> > > Default translations >> > > >> > > Effect >> > > >> > > Handling effects >> > > List of effects >> > > >> > > Orientation in project, other types of clips >> > > >> > > Useful smallness >> > > >> > > Guides >> > > Markers >> > > Split view (monitor) >> > > Working with tracks >> > > Group clips >> > > >> > > Different types of clips >> > > >> > > Color clip >> > > Generated clip (noise, countdown) >> > > Slideshow >> > > Subtitles >> > > >> > > FInishing project >> > > >> > > Render >> > > >> > > Timeline selection >> > > Render form >> > > >> > > Creating DVD >> > > >> > > Advanced functions >> > > >> > > Batches >> > > Reencoding >> > > Project cleaning >> > > Managing project profiles >> > > Downloading new lumas files >> > > Managing rendering profiles >> > > >> > > At the end >> > > >> > > Other materials >> > > Other video editors >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > 2010/7/20 Hugh Tebby <[email protected]> >> > >> >> > >> Hi, >> > >> >> > >> Considering the installed help, I'm not sure it should be a >> criteria >> for >> > >> choosing the online documentation system. The help could just send >> users the >> > >> the online documentation, like what is done in Blender for >> instance. >> Having >> > >> links to online documentation, video tutorials and the forum >> should be >> good >> > >> enough. >> > >> >> > >> The main issue with the documentation is covering the whole app and >> (most >> > >> of all) keeping it up to date. A wiki seems to me like the best >> solution, >> > >> and the most common. The Blender wiki is quite good I find : >> > >> http://wiki.blender.org/index.php/Main_Page >> > >> >> > >> We should really decide what structure to give to the user manual >> and >> then >> > >> have one documentation which could be translated to other >> languages. >> > >> >> > >> Jan, could you provide a translation at least of the titles of your >> > >> wikibook ? It would help understand and discuss (and hopefully >> enhance >> !) >> > >> the structure. >> > >> >> > >> Also in order to maybe get a stronger community we could have a >> look >> at >> > >> OpenShot, or Krita. OpenShot actually started building a community >> before >> > >> the app was available ! (via Facebook for instance). One thing >> that is >> great >> > >> about OpenShot and Krita is that their websites are also >> development >> blogs. >> > >> Krita has a weekly development summary which is a great read, and >> Openshot >> > >> has regular updates for enhancements and new features. >> > >> >> > >> Could Kdenlive (or maybe MLT...) also participate in the Google >> Summer >> of >> > >> Code next year ? A couple of full time devs would make quite a >> difference ! >> > >> Recently Krita had a fundraising in order to pay one of their devs >> full time >> > >> for several months in order to optimize and stabilize the app, and >> it >> worked >> > >> great ! I would certainly be willing to throw in a couple of dozens >> dozens >> > >> to get two or three months of full-time Kdenlive development ! >> (but I >> > >> suppose that also means finding a developper that has a few months >> of >> spare >> > >> time...) >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Anyway, just a few thoughts ! >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Cheers, >> > >> Hugh >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 2010/7/20 Simon Eugster <[email protected]> >> > >>> >> > >>> 2010/7/19 Yuri Chornoivan <[email protected]>: >> > >>> > написане Mon, 19 Jul 2010 05:13:44 +0300, Dan Dennedy >> > >>> > <[email protected]>: >> > >>> > >> > >>> >> On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Till Theato <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> > >>> >>> Hash: SHA1 >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> On 07/18/2010 07:19 PM, Jan Dr?bek wrote: >> > >>> >>>> Hi, >> > >>> >>>> I have just finished putting my Kdenlive manual (in czech) >> into >> > >>> >>>> wikibooks (I >> > >>> >>>> mentioned that I wrote it as my secondary school leaving >> project >> in >> > >>> >>>> forum). >> > >>> >>>> So now czech manual is complete, visible and searchable from >> google >> > >>> >>>> and I am >> > >>> >>>> going to update it regulary. >> > >>> >>>> Feel to browse it on address >> http://cs.wikibooks.org/wiki/Kdenlive >> > >>> >>>> >> > >>> >>>> I am wondering if it would be possible to add a visible link >> to >> > >>> >>>> kdenlive.orgdocumentation page mentioning this complete >> manual >> for >> > >>> >>>> czech users.l (I did >> > >>> >>>> this on czech community pages) >> > >>> >>>> >> > >>> >>>> Thanks >> > >>> >>>> Jan Dr?bek >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> Hi, >> > >>> >>> I don't understand the language but it seems to feature quite >> a >> lot. >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> There recently have been discussions about moving the >> documentation >> > >>> >>> back >> > >>> >>> to a wiki, so maybe we could you use wikibooks for all >> languages. >> > >>> >>> I will post this thread in our forum, so hopefully we will be >> able to >> > >>> >>> set up a better documentation in a few more languages (or at >> least in >> > >>> >>> English, too). >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> @jb: Where would you like the documentation to be placed? Our >> current >> > >>> >>> Drupal system doesn't seem to be the best solution. >> > >>> >>> >> > >>> >>> regards till >> > >>> >> >> > >>> >> Keep in mind that some people expect and use installed help as >> well. >> > >>> >> Most wiki-based documentation systems do not make it >> convenient to >> > >>> >> output XML to support that. For Kino, I enhanced a wiki that >> uses >> > >>> >> docbook XML as a backend and could perfectly export to >> installed >> help. >> > >>> >> It also supported multiple languages, but the big downside is >> that >> it >> > >>> >> only supports ISO-8859-1 and not UTF-8! It might be worthwhile >> for >> > >>> >> someone leading documentation to look into these this aspect of >> it. If >> > >>> >> the options are still not good, then some documentation >> regardless >> of >> > >>> >> installable or not is better than none. >> > >>> >> >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Hi! >> > >>> > >> > >>> > In fact, we have similar problems with KDE UserBase. Burkhard >> L?ck >> > >>> > created >> > >>> > the script [1] that can easily convert wiki export data to KDE >> docbook. >> > >>> > You can see the exported Parley manual on docs.kde.org [2] >> (glitches >> > >>> > are >> > >>> > due to docs.kde.org problems, not the problems in docbook >> itself, >> > >>> > locally >> > >>> > it looks good). >> > >>> > >> > >>> > I have just tried it on wikibooks pages (English and Czech in >> UTF-8) >> > >>> > and >> > >>> > it seems that the script works fine. Thus wiki -> KDE DocBook >> > >>> > conversion >> > >>> > can be done with the minimal efforts. >> > >>> > >> > >>> > Best regards, >> > >>> > Yuri >> > >>> > >> > >>> > [1] >> > >>> > >> > >>> > >> http://websvn.kde.org/branches/work/doc/parley/wiki2docbook.py?revision=1141465&view=markup >> > >>> > [2] http://docs.kde.org/development/en/kdeedu/parley/index.html >> > >>> >> > >>> I think a good manual is very important for kdenlive: >> > >>> 1 There are often quite basic questions on the IRC and in the >> forums. >> > >>> 2 It would make users more aware of kdenlive >> > >>> 3 It would show how many possibilities you have. >> > >>> >> > >>> To the last point, I for example did not know that you could set >> > >>> in/out points of clips when they are still in the project list >> until >> > >>> there was a bug report in mantis about this. >> > >>> >> > >>> To point one, recent questions were e.g.: How do I cut two clips >> at >> > >>> the same position? How can I render just a piece of the video? >> What >> is >> > >>> the difference between the project profile and the render profile? >> How >> > >>> do I get transparent titles? >> > >>> >> > >>> The current solution was a good attempt, and it would have been >> great >> > >>> if it had worked, but unfortunately it did not: >> > >>> http://kdenlive.org/user-manual >> > >>> >> > >>> Switching back to wikibooks might have the advantage of a larger >> user >> > >>> base that is already registered. But could we still export then? >> > >>> The second advantage is the Czech manual that already is there. >> > >>> >> > >>> Would there be big disadvantages of using wikibooks? >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> Another thought, we need a stronger community. Perhaps we should >> have >> > >>> a direct link to the forums in the title navbar on kdenlive.org? >> (Imho >> > >>> it is a little bit hidden atm; most users will expect it to be >> there.) >> > >>> Having a stronger community would also decrease the waiting time >> for >> > >>> answers in the forum, increase the number of tutorials, etc. We >> need >> > >>> some community expert :) >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> Just my thoughts. >> > >>> >> > >>> Simon >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >>> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >>> This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint >> > >>> What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? >> > >>> Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first >> > >>> _______________________________________________ >> > >>> Kdenlive-devel mailing list >> > >>> [email protected] >> > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > >> This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint >> > >> What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? >> > >> Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Kdenlive-devel mailing list >> > >> [email protected] >> > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > > This SF.net email is sponsored by Sprint >> > > What will you do first with EVO, the first 4G phone? >> > > Visit sprint.com/first -- http://p.sf.net/sfu/sprint-com-first >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Kdenlive-devel mailing list >> > > [email protected] >> > > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> > The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the >> > Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share >> > of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: >> > http://p.sf.net/sfu/dev2dev-palm >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Kdenlive-devel mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the >> Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share >> of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: >> http://p.sf.net/sfu/dev2dev-palm >> _______________________________________________ >> Kdenlive-devel mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ The Palm PDK Hot Apps Program offers developers who use the Plug-In Development Kit to bring their C/C++ apps to Palm for a share of $1 Million in cash or HP Products. Visit us here for more details: http://p.sf.net/sfu/dev2dev-palm _______________________________________________ Kdenlive-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/kdenlive-devel
