Linux-Advocacy Digest #279, Volume #26 Thu, 27 Apr 00 00:13:04 EDT
Contents:
IBM and Linux (was: IBM dumping more shares of RedHat (Mark S. Bilk)
Re: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical"... (was Re: Grasping perspective...) (Terry
Porter)
Re: What else is hidden in MS code??? (R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ))
Re: KDE is better than Gnome (David Steuber)
Re: on installing software on linux. a worst broken system. (Terry Porter)
Re: Linux RUINED my PC LINUX SUCKS!!!!!!! (Gary Hallock)
Re: Government to break up Microsoft ("Christopher Smith")
Re: Factory pre-installed Linux. ("Rich C")
Re: What else is hidden in MS code??? ("Christopher Smith")
Re: Factory pre-installed Linux. ("Rich C")
Re: IBM dumping more shares of RedHat (mlw)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Mark S. Bilk)
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: IBM and Linux (was: IBM dumping more shares of RedHat
Date: 27 Apr 2000 02:42:00 GMT
In article <8e77ge$dvm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Buzzz, wrong again Chad. IBM is stepping up it's commitment to Linux.
>IBM may be dropping its Red Hat stock because they are supporting
>3 different distributions -- Caldera, Turbo Linux and Red Hat.
>
>http://www.it-director.com/00-04-26-1.html
>
>Linux servers for 25% less than servers with MS software! The MS fad is
>over time to pull out!
>In article <ISBN4.438$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> http://www.zdnet.com/zdnn/stories/newsbursts/0,7407,2487559,00.html
>>
>> "IBM Corp. (NYSE: IBM), the No. 1 computer maker in the world,
>> filed with regulators to sell about $14.37 million worth of
>> shares in Red Hat Inc.
>>
>> Well, it was fun while it lasted. The fad's over, time to pull out.
Here are some excerpts from the article that sfcybear cited:
IBM endorses Linux servers
Wednesday, 26th April 2000
Just as Microsoft's fortunes take a downward turn, IBM is step-
ping up the Linux challenge. IBM Netfinity servers with Linux
preinstalled can be as much as 25% cheaper than the Windows
equivalent. The ability to buy a ready-to-run Linux server
from Big Blue is likely to put an end to the notion that Linux
is unsuited to the corporate market.
The IBM Netfinity range of Intel based servers will initially
be offered with Caldera Systems Linux distribution. Other
options are planned to follow, using Linux packages from Red
Hat and TurboLinux. Offering servers with Linux is a logical
move for IBM, which has already both offered Linux services and
ported software to the system. It is a clear indication that
Linux has a strong presence in the server market and is likely
to see further growth.
The promised addition of a journaling file system will add to
the appeal of Linux, especially in environments where simpli-
city of operation is important. SGI is planning the release of
such a system under an open source licence. The file system
will then have a database-like ability to recover from a system
crash in a consistent state.
At the very high end, IBM has also endorsed the use of Linux on
its System/390 mainframes. The still popular large systems are
viewed as the ultimate in scalability. Linux provides a sound
platform for many Internet related services, so as eCommerce
becomes a reality for large enterprises, it makes sense to make
the system available on the largest scale.
For example, a big System/390 can support thousands of Linux
systems, each in its own virtual machine, where it can be
completely configured and used by a customer for Web serving
or anything else, with extremely high throughput. An inter-
esting alternative to a large cluster of PCs, allowing almost
instant porting and scalability from the PC level as business
volume increases. IBM is running ads on TV about providing
web service with very rapid scalability; maybe this is how
they do it.
They pioneered a kind of open source in the 1980s, when they
published the schematics and ROM code of their PC, XT, and AT
computers for about $100. IBM enabled other companies to use
their ideas, essentially for free, and that's what started
the whole mass-market PC industry.
I wish them continuing success!
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: "Technical" vs. "Non-technical"... (was Re: Grasping perspective...)
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 27 Apr 2000 10:48:31 +0800
On 26 Apr 2000 11:09:56 -0600, Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter) writes:
>
>> On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 03:44:04 GMT, s_Ea_DAag0n <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 02:30:38 +0000, Colin R. Day <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >>sea_Dragon wrote:
>> >>
>> >><snip>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> I have been compiling and installing new Linux kernels for 6.5 years and
>> >>> know what I am doing. I gave the correct root drive. I added the new
>> >>> kernel to MILO, and kept the old one, and neither would boot with the
>> >>
>> >>Isn't that LILO? Could explain the problem.
>> >>
>> >><snip>
>> >
>> >Oh dear. You must be ---***___EXTREMELEY___***-- new to Linux.
>> >
>> >IMHO, anyone posting on comp.os.linux.advocacy who doesn't what MILO is
>> >needs to be beaten with a cluestick. Badly.
>>
>> No, it's you who needs a clue. I have no idea what MILO is, other
>> than a popular chockolate drink.
>
>Put a sock in it.
Please dont *ever* try and tell me how to conduct myself.
>
>MILO is a boot loader for Linux/Alpha, and has been used by other
>archtiectures as well.
Thank you.
>
> [snip more ignorance]
Ignorance can be easily fixed Craig.
>
>If you don't understand a term, perhaps you shouldn't rant on about
>it, hmmm?
I didnt say I didnt understand it ?
I said I had *no idea* what MILO is. Are you able to appreciate the difference.
Its a free COLA Craig, please either ignore me, or stop being a net policeman ?
>
>--
>The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
So is Craig Kelley
<plonk>
>Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
--
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 6 days 9 hours 35 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
From: R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What else is hidden in MS code???
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 02:42:48 GMT
In article <8e5msp$k22$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Rob S. Wolfram) wrote:
> > [cola added]
> > Christopher Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>"Rob S. Wolfram" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >>news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>> #1 - The probability that there's a
> >>> backdoor in any Microsoft OS or
> >>> application is about equal to the
> >>> probability that there's a flight
> >>> simulator hidden in a spreadsheet program.
This is a bit funny considering that there is a 3D video
game in Excel from Office 95. If you crack the easter egg,
you get a display showing names and pictures of the developers.
Of course this means you must have the Microsoft 3D package
to load excel.
> >>Proof for this conclusion ?
The issue here is probability. We know that Microsoft is fussy
about piracy. We know that Microsoft reserves the right to legally
check the license status via the internet. You wave your right
to such privacy in the EULA. In the last chapter of "the road ahead"
Gates states empirically that "if you use a PC to access the Internet,
you forfeit your right to privacy.
> > It's not a conclusion, it's a statement.
> > It's not even my statement, but
> > I wholeheartly agree. Read between the lines.
> >
> >>> #2 - There's no way you can proof
> >>> the absence of a backdoor in FP98
> >>> short of examining the source, which
> >>> can only be consisdered possible
> >>> if you have a source license.
> >>
> >>Which, I'm usre, is possible if you want to pay for it.
> > Of course it is. <Hey Drestin, do you have the source to FP98?>
> >
> >>> #3 - Using open source software does guarantee you the absence of
back
> >>> doors. It also guarantees that security algorithms are properly
> >>> implemented and does not rely on STO.
> >>
> >>How does it guarantee this ? Where is the guarantee there's no
conspiracy
> >>by all the people who can actually understand the code ? How are
the people
> >>who *can't* do the code review themselves (ie the vast majority)
supposed to
> >>be reassured ?
> >
> > Were you by any chance the writer of the plot for "The Matrix"?
>
xirtam:
>
_the_
>
missing
>
dll
> Bills view many years from now...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Rob
>
>
--
Rex Ballard - Open Source Advocate, Internet
I/T Architect, MIS Director
http://www.open4success.com
Linux - 60 million satisfied users worldwide
and growing at over 1%/week!
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.windows.x.kde,tw.bbs.comp.linux
Subject: Re: KDE is better than Gnome
From: David Steuber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 03:00:00 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Christopher Browne) writes:
' It's still pretty legitimate to note that the use (or disuse) CORBA is
' fairly irrelevant to this issue; it is the use of the XDND protocol
' that "stimulates" most of the use of Drag'n'Drool on Linux/X.
I agree. I was not even aware of XDND. Sure, I have the Xlib
programmer's guide (or whatever, the book is in another room). I just
haven't had the time to read it and grok all that is X.
Thanks to Qt, I can put that off even more ;-)
Sooner or later, I will get down to the bare metal.
I think this thread is misnamed. From the user's point of view, there
are a bunch of desktop environments that can be mixed and matched with
various window managers. I consider this a 'good thing'. I am all
for choice, even if it makes support more difficult. In my mind, if
someone is ready to experiment, they are ready to do it on their own
anyway.
>From the developer's point of view, you have Qt vs GTK. Now you have
something to argue about. Qt is a cathedral, GTK is a bazaar. Also,
GTC is C, Qt is C++. I am aware that GTK has a set of C++ wrappers.
I am also aware of the linkage difficulties with C++. I prefer Qt. I
like to have the facilities that C++ offers me. The Qt library is a
bit strange with its macro extensions. However, the way Trolltech has
done it seems less evil than the way Microsoft did MFC. Anyway, going
back to plain C would be painful for me. So I use Qt.
--
David Steuber | Hi! My name is David Steuber, and I am
NRA Member | a hoploholic.
http://www.packetphone.org/
Disco is to music what Etch-A-Sketch is to art.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Terry Porter)
Subject: Re: on installing software on linux. a worst broken system.
Reply-To: No-Spam
Date: 27 Apr 2000 11:07:00 +0800
On 25 Apr 2000 12:18:43 +0100, Stefan Ohlsson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Terry Porter wrote:
>[snip talk about rpm and dependancies on SuSE]
>
>>>What an absolutly stupied design.
>>What a clueless remark.
>>
>It's a perfectly valid remark
I disagree, because hes claiming that different package managers should
be interchangable.
They are a product of different distributions, he has no clue that
source tarballs offer what he wants, yet claims to have 6+ years of
Linux "experience". The poster is a Wintroll.
> and a failing that someone has to deal with,
>namely SuSE. RPM is good a good thing, but evidently it doesn't work well
>with SuSE altough it's _supposed_ to.
I disagree again, I do not find RPM a good thing.
>
>[snip lots of rants]
>This may be a Linux advocacy group, but long flames like that just isn't
^^^^ *is* a Linux advocacy group, no *may* about it.
>necessary, nor very good for expanding the user base.
Linux has, and will stand on its own merit. This Wintroll is making all kinds
of claims, and those who are silent, are assumed to agree.
I find it interesting that some supposed Linux users, prefer to be everyones
friend, and think Linux usage is spread by people being "good".
I for one do not agree with Stefans view, of Linux advocacy.
>
>/Stefan
Kind Regards
Terry
--
**** To reach me, use [EMAIL PROTECTED] ****
My Desktop is powered by GNU/Linux, and has been
up 6 days 9 hours 35 minutes
** Registration Number: 103931, http://counter.li.org **
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:13:31 -0400
From: Gary Hallock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux RUINED my PC LINUX SUCKS!!!!!!!
"[EMAIL PROTECTED]" wrote:
> Freaking pile of shit Linux ruined my system. Damm Redhat erased 2
> partitions and I lost all my data...
>
> DON'T USE LINUX IT WILL KILL YOUR PC
>
> LINUX SUXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
>
> YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> BY MSFT
>
> AT LEAST THEIR SOFTWARE WORKS...
I know, I shouldn't feed the trolls but,
If you actually believe what you say then you have to be a total idiot to use
Linux to post this message. You don't practice what you preach.
Gary
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Government to break up Microsoft
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:24:20 +1000
"petilon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Office on Palm ? That'd be interesting....
>
> Why not? If Office on PocketPC is a good idea then I don't see
> why Office on PalmOS would be a bad idea.
I never said Office on PocketPC would be a good idea - why would you want a
full blown Office sutie on those dinky little things ? They're not meant
for it.
Besides that, Palm devices don't have the memory or CPU grunt (yet) to run
something like Office.
> Besides, PalmOS is not
> limited to hand-held devices. Palm has already announced plans
> to make bigger internet-access devices based on PalmOS.
If and when they appear, it might be an option.
> >
> > Microsoft acquired their commanding position in productivity
> > software by having the best software available.
>
> Nonsense. Microsoft always had the weakest productivity
> applications.
? Excel was better than 123 almost since it's original release. Word took
somewhat longer to become better than than Wordperfect, but it did
eventually - especially on Windows where Wordperfect dropped the ball
*twice*.
> But they defeated competitors by leveraging the
> OS monopoly. When Microsoft released Windows 3.1, when they
> released OLE 2.0, when they released Windows 95, Microsoft was
> able to release new versions of Office that take advantage of
> new OS features 6 months ahead of their competitors.
>
> MS Office team got pre-release information much ahead of outside
> competitors. Also, the Office team had tremendous sway over the
> what features went in to the OS itself. They could get the OS
> guys to put in the features they want, modify functionality etc.
Don't forget the secret APIs that somehow made the Office programs better
and faster while you're rambling away.
> Outside competitors never got this kind of power and control
> over the OS. How can you expect outside developers to compete
> and stay in business in this kind of environment where one of
> the players have exclusive control over the playground?
Wordperfect managed to for years, by having a better (or, at the very least,
more popular product). Quicken is *still* doing it the same way. 123 lost
out because Excel was simply better.
>
> I have been saying the above for a long time, but never had
> conclusive proof. But now I do. Here:
> http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20000426/tc/microsoft_81.html
>
> Excerpts:
> ``We wouldn't have Windows today if it hadn't been for the
> Office group and the Windows group working together,'' Gates
> said, speaking by telephone from a computer hardware
> developers' conference in New Orleans. ``It was the thinking
> that was done, being in one company, going after a new user
> interface, taking a huge risk, that we were able to create
> Windows.''
>
> Read between the lines and you can see that Gates is admitting
> the Office group had power and control over OS features that
> outside Office competitors did not have.
Read what you want to read and believe what you want to believe, right ?
> Gates sounds pathetic when he says "we wouldn't have Windows
> today..." All Gates has done is to clone features from competing
> operating systems.
All other OSes done have clone features from competing OSes, your point ?
> I don't see how Gates comments make sense.
> Apple, NeXT, IBM etc created better operating systems with no
> help from an in-house Office development team.
And neither did Windows, except by your personal interpretation of some
obscure paragraph most likely taken out of context (as most quotes are).
> More from Gates:
>
> ``We need to have our research people, our Office people, our
> Windows people all in one group taking breathtaking risks on
> this breakthrough user interface that is delivered in this
> next phase of the Internet,'' Gates said.
>
> First off, Gates' goal is to shift the Internet from open
> standards to Microsoft proprietary ones.
The goal of all companies is to control the market, your point ?
> The Internet doesn't
> need Gates, thank you very much.
It doesn't *need* anyone.
> Secondly, it is interesting
> to see Gates admit he can't compete unless his products are
> able to leverage off each other in order to lock out
> competitors.
He admits no such thing. He's simply making the point that if you do have
all the groups working together you can make a more integrated, robust and
user friendly product - that's just common sense.
Apple, Sun, IBM etc do the *exact* same thing with their OSes and hardware.
Why ? Because it does offer numerous advantages to the consumer to have a
single entity designing and controlling a product.
------------------------------
From: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Factory pre-installed Linux.
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:23:56 -0400
"JEDIDIAH" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:48:11 -0400, Rich C <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >"mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> OK, lets say we can get some OEM's to do a good job at factory
> >> pre-installation. The box arrives at the door, excited, happy user
> >> connects the color coded wires, and violla! It boots. What should that
> >> user see?
> >>
> >> What kind of startup screen? Presumably an initial startup program that
> >> creates a new user name and password? Music?
> >
> >No music. Not if it's Midi. I hate that stuff. I always turn it off and I
> >hate when people send me those on-line "cards" with midi files playing.
>
> There's no good reason such 'music' couldn't be mp3.
That would be ok. :o)
>
> >
> >First thing: You should be given a "stock" root password (like one of
those
> >free ISP signup disks). Once you log in, you should be FORCED to change
it.
> >
> >Next, a real user account should be set up. The screen should explain why
> >you need one, and not to log in as root unless you need to.
>
> Actually, there should be an Xsu that would allow you to run
> admin utilties as root only when necessary. The end user should
> never need to be logged in as root (either on the console or an
> xterm).
>
That's what I was alluding to later on in my post. Maybe I didn't express it
right.
> >
> >Next, something like the "Add dialup connection" in windows where you
plug
> >in your ISP's phone number, your user name and password. Alternatively,
if
> >the system "comes" with internet access, this can be pre-configured.
>
> ...preconfiguration should be arrangement. The easiest sort of
> thing to do is nothing at all...
>
> I think one of the bay area VARs do this already.
>
> >
> >Next, a utility to BACK ALL THIS UP on disk, so it can be restored if the
> >system needs to be reinstalled. The back-up CD should put the system to
>
> ...or alternately, develop the filesystem such that the core OS
> is NEVER touched. In this way it would be like a sort of virtal
> ROM (ala the Atari ST). Then only let apps touch the non core
> parts of the system.
I agree. I was referring to the configuration files /etc/passwd,
/etc/pppd/pppd.conf and so forth being backed up so that, in the event the
disk gets trashed, or the user upgrades his/her hard disk, the setup process
wouldn't need to be started all over again.
>
> >EXACTLY the same state as when the user first turns it on, with the
> >exception that this back up disk is requested, and the settings can be
> >restored, including the user's account and password settings. (Obviously,
if
> >the user changes any of this info, the backup disk should be recreated.
> >Perhaps a prompt to do this when any utility is invoked to change the
> >password file, network settings, or the like. This can all be done with
> >scripts invoked from the menus. Knowledgable users can simply invoke the
> >passwd command if they wish and bypass the handholding.)
> >
> >>
> >> Here is a list of "pre-configured" apps that must be setup and ready to
> >> function:
> >>
> >> Applix or StarOffice (Depending on the kind of deal you can get)
> >> Netscape, of course. With Shockwave and RealAudio
> >
> >don't forget ICQ and AOL IM clients!
>
> ...those might come along for the ride when GNOME and KDE get installed.
Oh yeah? I don't use Gnome (much) and KDE didn't come with them; I had to
find them on Linuxberg. It would be cool if good versions are included....of
course Netscape will probably include a Linux version of AOLIM eventually
anyway, since the buyout.
>
> >
> >> KDE and/or Gnome (I prefer KDE)
> >> AcrobatReader
> >> Java
> >> Modem setup and configured.
> >> PPP dialup ready to go with modem and dhcp.
> >> Sound card setup and configured.
> >> Video setup and configured.
> >> Optional network, setup and configured.
> >
> >If the Linux machine has a modem AND a network connection, you should
assume
> >that the machine will be some kind of home network proxy server, and
> >additional utilities should help the user SECURELY set up services like
>
> Actually, it would make more sense for there to be some sort of
> good default configuration. Ideally, the default configuration
> shouldn't need to be altered. The easiest thing to do is 'nothing'.
You still need to set up the user's ISP SMTP server, news server, POP3 mail
server, DNS servers for the specific ISP, unless you're selling ALL the
computers with bundled internet access. Further, you need to provide
instruction on how to set up any client machines: what IP addresses to
assign them (this may change on a dial-up conn vs. a DSL conn, where static
IPs may be assigned. Some DSLs give you up to 4 static IP addresses; on a
dial-up, you need to configure the proxies to use the dynamically assigned
remote IP address provided by the PPP.
-- Rich C.
"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."
>
> [deletia]
>
> --
>
> |||
> / | \
>
> Need sane PPP docs? Try penguin.lvcm.com.
>
------------------------------
From: "Christopher Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: What else is hidden in MS code???
Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:38:10 +1000
"R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard )" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8e89f6$jhk$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8e5msp$k22$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >>Proof for this conclusion ?
>
> The issue here is probability. We know that Microsoft is fussy
> about piracy. We know that Microsoft reserves the right to legally
> check the license status via the internet. You wave your right
> to such privacy in the EULA.
All companies are fussy about piracy.
> In the last chapter of "the road ahead"
> Gates states empirically that "if you use a PC to access the Internet,
> you forfeit your right to privacy.
If you buy goods using anything except cash, you also forfeit your right to
privacy. Your point ?
------------------------------
From: "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Factory pre-installed Linux.
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:37:21 -0400
"Pim van Riezen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8e6dk9$im$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Rich C" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> tapped some keys and produced:
>
> > > Why? The kernel messages are very useful if something goes kaput. If
> > > you're looking at your pretty picture of a penguin (or whatever logo
> > > you would have a booting system display), something goes wrong, and it
> > > just freezes, you're no better off then you are with Windows.
> >
> > I agree, I like the fact that RH6.x has the color coded messages on
> > bootup that tell you whether a driver or daemon loaded correctly or
> > failed to load. You can quickly see if your boot is going normally or if
> > you have a problem, because the messages go by way too fast to read (on
> > my PII 450 anyway.)
> >
> > [snip other stuff I agree with]
>
> The point is, that the kernel messaages are only useful when something
goes
> wrong. They're annoying and potentially confusing when it doesn't.
Confusing and annoying to whom? 4-year-olds? MAC users?
>Take a
> look at two other systems and their boot sequence:
>
> 1.Mac
> Every subsystem that is loaded (in the MacOS context an extension)
displays
> an icon when it is done. If a subsystem has an error, the icon will be
> marked with a cross through it. An error may or may not be shown.
Now THAT sounds confusing.
>
> 2.IRIX
> The system starts up in a "pretty" screen, which only tells which
subsystems
> are being started. If one of the startup scripts dumps an error to stderr,
> the pretty screen is replaced by a console window which shows the actual
> errors.
So you still get the console messages?
>
> Easier to use, easier to diagnose when something actually _goes_ wrong and
> sure as hell both less ugly to look at.
I totally disagree. The RedHat 6.x inits (I don't know about other distros)
give you console messages that fly by (a nice reminder of how fast your
computer REALLY is) and all you have to do is watch all the nice green [OK]
status indications. If something goes wrong, there is a yellow [caution] or
a red [failed] indication to flag you that something is amiss.
I find that static or semistatic graphic "logos" are boring as hell. I'd
rather watch my computer do something while it's booting up.
The REAL problem is that there is no easy way to track down what DID go
wrong, unless you know UNIX. A universal error code with an indexed database
search feature would greatly help diagnose problems, even for a
semi-experienced user. (VMS was good at this.)
>
> A bad example is the Winduh startup, which doesn't show _anything_ useful.
I
> agree that that is bad.
To paraphrase W.C. Fields, any man that hates windows can't be all bad.
>
> Cheers,
> Pi
>
> --
> I need an enemy.
>
>
-- Rich C.
"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."
------------------------------
From: mlw <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: IBM dumping more shares of RedHat
Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:31:07 -0400
Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
>
> R.E.Ballard ( Rex Ballard ) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:8e82dq$c07$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > It seems that Billy was spending the money IBM gave him
> > to do OS/2 on Windows 3.0. They settled out of court with the
> > usual nondislosures, but IBM didn't trust Microsoft anymore.
>
> Note that in Rex speak, "it seems" means, I made this up out of thin air and
> you can't prove that I didn't because the information is not available to
> disprove me.
Actually, while I can't vouch for the motivations of others, I was
working in the industry when Microsoft was telling EVERYONE to code for
OS/2. Internally, however, MS was putting a lot of work into Windows and
applications. When Windows 3.0 came out, vendors, at Microsoft's
insistence, had put a lot of work into OS/2 and were caught without
thier best offering being on Windows. Microsoft walked away with the
Windows application suites because everyone had been working on OS/2.
Lotus, Word Perfect, and all the other industry leaders. That was an
underhanded trick and Microsoft should pay for it.
Microsoft preached code for OS/2 up until the day Bill Gates screamed
"Windows, Windows, Windows." It was criminally misleading.
--
Mohawk Software
Windows 9x, Windows NT, UNIX, Linux. Applications, drivers, support.
Visit http://www.mohawksoft.com
"We've got a blind date with destiny, and it looks like she ordered the
lobster"
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list (and comp.os.linux.advocacy) via:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
