Linux-Advocacy Digest #279, Volume #31 Fri, 5 Jan 01 20:13:03 EST
Contents:
Linux is crude and inconsistant. ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: Question with Security on Linux/Unix versus Windows NT/2000 ("kiwiunixman")
Re: Question with Security on Linux/Unix versus Windows NT/2000 ("kiwiunixman")
Re: auto run ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Re: RPM Hell (J Sloan)
you dumb. and lazy. ("adam")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Linux is crude and inconsistant.
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:52:44 GMT
Linux had better get it's collective ass organized if it ever hopes to
compete for desktop market share with Windows and Mac. In it's present
state it is a conglomeration of disjointed half completed works.
I received my Mandrake update CD this week and decided to give
Mandrake 7.2 another whirl, partly because I am bored at the moment
and partly because I was hoping that this one was the big winner.
I kept a detailed log of all of my Linux complaints just so I could be
somewhat accurate in describing the headache that Linux is.
Let's start with the Mandrake install process, which seems to have a
mind of it's own. Feed it an "expert" parameter, which is supposed to
prevent hardware detection, and it still tries to detect hardware.
It never prompts me to make a boot/rescue disk and insists on mis
configuring my Logitech wheel mouse. In addition it thinks my Matrox
G200 card has 4 meg, unless I select the SD version and then it asks
me how much memory the card has, which is 8 meg.
God help you if you choose not to set up your internet connection when
you are prompted because ppp doesn't get installed (modem connection).
Even worse, if you decide to set up Networking during the install,
internet connection sharing will never work unless you can figure out
how to undo the mess of DNS and host name crap that gets scattered
about. The solution is to answer yes to internet connection via modem
and no to networking and set up ICS later. It works fine that way.
Also, make sure you don't hit enter after you are prompted to install
the second or third CDROM because even though the cancel box is NOT
highlighted, that is what will happen and those programs will NOT get
installed. Solution is to use the mouse and click OK.
Also Install everything is NOT the same as Custom->install everything
option. With the custom->install everything you get more Enlightenment
programs along with VMWare and other stuff. With the Install
everything option from the main menu you don't get everything.
So now let us proceed to post install. First off we must change the
fonts from 75dpi to 100dpi in the /etc/X11/fs/config file. Why on
earth they default to 75dpi is beyond me because even on a 21 inch
Sony monitor it looks like shit.
Now we must change the default mouse to Microsoft intellimouse even
though it is a Logitech mouse. Warning, if you choose Logitech your
mouse will NEVER work in Linux again and there is no way out of it
unless you happen to be good at console commands and editing config
files. Also I had to change the refresh rate and other display
settings including fonts.
Speaking of fonts, Mandrake includes a nifty tool to find all of your
Windows fonts and and make them available to Linux. It finds them all
right but they don't appear as selections in any programs including
DrakFont if you launch it a second time after adding them.
On to Enlightenment which seems unable to even save the settings of an
Eterm. Change the font, save current settings close, relaunch and it
goes back to default every time. This is with root or user access and
does not matter.
How about the Wheel mouse which sometimes works and other times
doesn't? Usually opening and closing Netscape or whatever the
offending application happens to be at the moment, makes it work again
until the next time it doesn't work again. Why can't XMMS remember
it's settings like song directories? Why does the Enlightenment menu
sometimes appear and other times doesn't? How about the icon box that
comes and goes when it pleases? Applications that completely disappear
from the desktop but are yet still running (alt/middle mouse button
shows them)?
How about no sound out of the digital port on the SBLive card?
GMC that refuses to allow saving of some files, despite running SU as
root?
Netscape that out of the blue decides that it needs all 512meg of RAM
that my system has?
How do you set up Dial on Demand using kppp (the default dialup
included with Mandrake)?
Let's move on to Wine shall we?
After trying pan to read news offline (like 99 percent of the Windows
world does) and having it self destruct on me over and over again, I
decided to try wine running Agent. What a mess, because I run Win2k.
Someone needs to re-write that disaster of a man page (and while they
are at it they should re-write ALL of the man pages).
Didn't matter because although Agent would start, as soon as I tried
to go online it would segfault. Most likely had something to do with
Win2k though because I have had Wine/Agent working with Win98 in the
past fine.
It's difficult to believe that there are no good offline news readers
for Linux. Leaf node is an abortion in comparison to running Agent and
the only advantage is if several users are reading news and using the
same dialup.
Why doesn't Knode remember it's settings like Window size?
Why is adding to or editing Menues in Enlightenment such a pita? Shit
I just drag and drop from menues in Windows. Seems pretty simple to
me?
How about PM firewall? Well this one is a real gem if ever there was
one. Simple to set up and it works very well. It should have prompts
for possible selections though as it took me a while to figure out
that my external interface was ppp0 and I doubt Joe Sixpack will ever
figure it out.
A very nice program.
ICS was another gem because as long as you don't set up networking
during the install, it works perfectly except for demand dial.
Why does Mandrake insist on changing my mouse settings every time it
boots up? I had to turn off hardware detection for that one.
Why doesn't my mouse "hover scroll" meaning if I have a split window
in an application if I move the mouse over each window I just have to
move the wheel to scroll. I do not have to click in each window. No
focus setting under Linux that I tried allowed this to work.
How come I can't use a printer that is on my network and connected to
a machine running Windows 2k?
Under Windows 2k on the same machine that is running Linux, I just
select "Add Network Printer/browse and it finds the printer, add's the
printer and I am done.
I screwed with Samba till I was sick of dancing and could not make it
work.
Why is there so much way outdated documentation for Linux out there?
Even Mandrakeuser.org has stuff that will render your system useless
if you follow th instructions with more modern versions?
Why is the Mandrake.com site just about useless?
How come the upgrade CD I received turned kde into a vegetable? I had
to reload the entire thing.
How come if I try to install Enlightenment after the fact it fails
dependencies even though they are on my system?
I could go on for hours with all of the inconsistencies of Linux but
now let's take a Windows 2k install and see how a quality,
professional system should be installed.
g:\setup.exe and away it goes.
All hardware including my scanner and USB camera is detected.
I didn't even have to install the scanner/camera programs because the
default program installed with WIn2k worked fine but I did install
PhotoShop which came with the scanner. Tell me about Gimpy again?
After install, I did have to add Netbui protocol because for some
strange reason my Linksys cards don't work without it?
Click on create dial up.
Click on share connection and allow demand dial.
Install firewall (setup.exe again).
Click on add a printer->network printer->browse and select the printer
on the other system. Couldn't be any easier. Try that one under
Linsux.
That's it and everything works fine and I can enjoy my APPLICATIONS
instead of screwing around with an operating system. Did I mention how
many quality applications there are for Windows? The Linux
applications seem like they are half done by comparison. Really they
do. Compare that X-Traceroute program with NeoTrace. Or Gaim with the
real AIM. It's not even close. Speaking of Gaim, how come it doesn't
recognize my friends coming online real time, but requires me to log
off and on again to reset it? Doesn't happen all the time, but enough
to be annoying.
Nope, Linux is a crude, nasty system that is full of warts and is in
need of some real polish before it is ready for mainstream use.
Maybe Microsoft will buy Linux and make it worth using someday?
Flatfish
Why do they call it a flatfish?
Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question with Security on Linux/Unix versus Windows NT/2000
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 00:54:20 GMT
Easy example would be amazon.com which uses Sun Ray Network Appliances and a
large centralised server.
kiwiunixman
"tony roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:#xUZiNzdAHA.265@cpmsnbbsa09...
> hmm, so we'll go back to the era of dumb terminals, great! Centralized
> computing never had the concept that endusers are smart and need tools to
do
> their work creatively. As for your example of "telemarketing" systems can
> you point me to a commercial telemarketing system that runs on a
> "centralised computing" system, please a web site would be great!
>
> also can you inteligently discuss the "fundemental flaws in NT
achitecture"?
>
> "the FACT remains that Windows was chosen over UNIX
> due to unix's complexity when setting up the transaction side of the
server"
>
> there is no "FACT" a fortune 500 firm is not about to use an inferior
> system just because its easier!
>
>
> "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > There is a gradual move back to centralised computing (esp. in the area
of
> > telemarketing) due to its very Low TCO when the cost is spread over a
> large
> > orgnistation, hence, the server needs to be "multi-user" and with this
> > demand, the OS must also be able to handle and process thousands of
> requests
> > per second. NT does not, and never will, have the scalability required
to
> > undertake massive tasks such as Centralised processing until Microsoft
> fixes
> > the fundemental flaws in NT achitecture. This is where UNIX comes into
> > play. Although you could use NT's "success" in the e-commerce area as
an
> > example of scalability, the fact remains that Windows was chosen over
UNIX
> > due to unix's complexity when setting up the transaction side of the
> server.
> > Hence, the selection of NT was never based on the fact that NT was
> superior,
> > but because it was easier. However, this flaw in UNIX has been
addressed
> > (by the iplanet alliance), and you will find that later (when companies
> > decide to upgrade etc) they will dump NT for UNIX.
> >
> > kiwiunixman
> >
> > "tony roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:eR00B6ndAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09...
> > > ok dumbass give me a good reason for a multi user server vs the
> > > functionality provided by a typical nt server! oh boy this is going to
> be
> > > fun :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Since you have such as vast knowledge regarding UNIX and Windows
2000,
> > > > then you should know what it means. Why have I made this conclusion,
> > > > because you make so-called educated conclusions regarding UNIX vs.
> > > > Windows 2000, hence, you must experience with both platforms to make
> > > > such sweeping statements, otherwise, what you are saying is hot air,
> and
> > > > nothing more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
From: "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Question with Security on Linux/Unix versus Windows NT/2000
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2001 13:59:16 +1300
Also, an UNIX box costs more to setup due the lack of UNIX administrators
(because of the onslaught of Microsoft "if you can point and click you're an
administrator" message).
Hence, pay a UNIX admin $NZ120K a year or $NZ45K for a wintel admin?
kiwiunixman
"tony roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:#xUZiNzdAHA.265@cpmsnbbsa09...
> hmm, so we'll go back to the era of dumb terminals, great! Centralized
> computing never had the concept that endusers are smart and need tools to
do
> their work creatively. As for your example of "telemarketing" systems can
> you point me to a commercial telemarketing system that runs on a
> "centralised computing" system, please a web site would be great!
>
> also can you inteligently discuss the "fundemental flaws in NT
achitecture"?
>
> "the FACT remains that Windows was chosen over UNIX
> due to unix's complexity when setting up the transaction side of the
server"
>
> there is no "FACT" a fortune 500 firm is not about to use an inferior
> system just because its easier!
>
>
> "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > There is a gradual move back to centralised computing (esp. in the area
of
> > telemarketing) due to its very Low TCO when the cost is spread over a
> large
> > orgnistation, hence, the server needs to be "multi-user" and with this
> > demand, the OS must also be able to handle and process thousands of
> requests
> > per second. NT does not, and never will, have the scalability required
to
> > undertake massive tasks such as Centralised processing until Microsoft
> fixes
> > the fundemental flaws in NT achitecture. This is where UNIX comes into
> > play. Although you could use NT's "success" in the e-commerce area as
an
> > example of scalability, the fact remains that Windows was chosen over
UNIX
> > due to unix's complexity when setting up the transaction side of the
> server.
> > Hence, the selection of NT was never based on the fact that NT was
> superior,
> > but because it was easier. However, this flaw in UNIX has been
addressed
> > (by the iplanet alliance), and you will find that later (when companies
> > decide to upgrade etc) they will dump NT for UNIX.
> >
> > kiwiunixman
> >
> > "tony roth" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:eR00B6ndAHA.319@cpmsnbbsa09...
> > > ok dumbass give me a good reason for a multi user server vs the
> > > functionality provided by a typical nt server! oh boy this is going to
> be
> > > fun :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "kiwiunixman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Since you have such as vast knowledge regarding UNIX and Windows
2000,
> > > > then you should know what it means. Why have I made this conclusion,
> > > > because you make so-called educated conclusions regarding UNIX vs.
> > > > Windows 2000, hence, you must experience with both platforms to make
> > > > such sweeping statements, otherwise, what you are saying is hot air,
> and
> > > > nothing more.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: auto run
Crossposted-To: comp.os.linux.misc
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2001 21:44:41 +0000
Peter T. Breuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> did eloquently scribble:
> In comp.os.linux.misc [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>> Aaron R. Kulkis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> did eloquently scribble:
>> First, lets split it in two...
>> Auto... Short for automatic. To do something without manual intrervention.
> "Auto" means "self" as far as I know! As in "automobile" = self-moving.
>> Run... To start a program...
> Look up "locofoco" in the dictionary. A good one.
True... But I was talking within the context of that...
:)
--
=============================================================================
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] | Windows95 (noun): 32 bit extensions and a |
| | graphical shell for a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| operating system originally coded for a 4 bit |
| in |microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that|
| Computer Science | can't stand 1 bit of competition. |
=============================================================================
------------------------------
From: J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:03:42 GMT
BradyBear wrote:
> Well, I decided to give KDE 2.0.1 a shot. So I downloaded all the
> relevent rpm,s. But before I can install my shiny new desktop, I need
> to install the latest version of QT. So, I go grab QT2.2.3. Great.
Not so great - you should have downloaded the qt rpms from
the same location as your kde rpms, or you will have incompatible
versions.
<long winded whining snipped>
I've put kde 2 on several boxes, simply downloaded the
rpms - all the rpms including qt - from ftp.kde.org, and
simply did an an rpm -Uvvh - no problems noted.
jjs
------------------------------
From: "adam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: you dumb. and lazy.
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:07:48 GMT
if you are THAT upset about driving stick shift don't drive a sportscar...
stick around though, im sure a distro will come along in the future that
will suite your lazy needs. mandrake may not be the easiest for a
windows/mac monkey like yourself, but its a huge piece of cake compared to
other distros..
you dumb!
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Linux had better get it's collective ass organized if it ever hopes to
> compete for desktop market share with Windows and Mac. In it's present
> state it is a conglomeration of disjointed half completed works.
>
> I received my Mandrake update CD this week and decided to give
> Mandrake 7.2 another whirl, partly because I am bored at the moment
> and partly because I was hoping that this one was the big winner.
>
> I kept a detailed log of all of my Linux complaints just so I could be
> somewhat accurate in describing the headache that Linux is.
>
> Let's start with the Mandrake install process, which seems to have a
> mind of it's own. Feed it an "expert" parameter, which is supposed to
> prevent hardware detection, and it still tries to detect hardware.
> It never prompts me to make a boot/rescue disk and insists on mis
> configuring my Logitech wheel mouse. In addition it thinks my Matrox
> G200 card has 4 meg, unless I select the SD version and then it asks
> me how much memory the card has, which is 8 meg.
> God help you if you choose not to set up your internet connection when
> you are prompted because ppp doesn't get installed (modem connection).
> Even worse, if you decide to set up Networking during the install,
> internet connection sharing will never work unless you can figure out
> how to undo the mess of DNS and host name crap that gets scattered
> about. The solution is to answer yes to internet connection via modem
> and no to networking and set up ICS later. It works fine that way.
> Also, make sure you don't hit enter after you are prompted to install
> the second or third CDROM because even though the cancel box is NOT
> highlighted, that is what will happen and those programs will NOT get
> installed. Solution is to use the mouse and click OK.
> Also Install everything is NOT the same as Custom->install everything
> option. With the custom->install everything you get more Enlightenment
> programs along with VMWare and other stuff. With the Install
> everything option from the main menu you don't get everything.
>
> So now let us proceed to post install. First off we must change the
> fonts from 75dpi to 100dpi in the /etc/X11/fs/config file. Why on
> earth they default to 75dpi is beyond me because even on a 21 inch
> Sony monitor it looks like shit.
> Now we must change the default mouse to Microsoft intellimouse even
> though it is a Logitech mouse. Warning, if you choose Logitech your
> mouse will NEVER work in Linux again and there is no way out of it
> unless you happen to be good at console commands and editing config
> files. Also I had to change the refresh rate and other display
> settings including fonts.
> Speaking of fonts, Mandrake includes a nifty tool to find all of your
> Windows fonts and and make them available to Linux. It finds them all
> right but they don't appear as selections in any programs including
> DrakFont if you launch it a second time after adding them.
> On to Enlightenment which seems unable to even save the settings of an
> Eterm. Change the font, save current settings close, relaunch and it
> goes back to default every time. This is with root or user access and
> does not matter.
> How about the Wheel mouse which sometimes works and other times
> doesn't? Usually opening and closing Netscape or whatever the
> offending application happens to be at the moment, makes it work again
> until the next time it doesn't work again. Why can't XMMS remember
> it's settings like song directories? Why does the Enlightenment menu
> sometimes appear and other times doesn't? How about the icon box that
> comes and goes when it pleases? Applications that completely disappear
> from the desktop but are yet still running (alt/middle mouse button
> shows them)?
> How about no sound out of the digital port on the SBLive card?
> GMC that refuses to allow saving of some files, despite running SU as
> root?
> Netscape that out of the blue decides that it needs all 512meg of RAM
> that my system has?
>
> How do you set up Dial on Demand using kppp (the default dialup
> included with Mandrake)?
>
> Let's move on to Wine shall we?
> After trying pan to read news offline (like 99 percent of the Windows
> world does) and having it self destruct on me over and over again, I
> decided to try wine running Agent. What a mess, because I run Win2k.
> Someone needs to re-write that disaster of a man page (and while they
> are at it they should re-write ALL of the man pages).
> Didn't matter because although Agent would start, as soon as I tried
> to go online it would segfault. Most likely had something to do with
> Win2k though because I have had Wine/Agent working with Win98 in the
> past fine.
> It's difficult to believe that there are no good offline news readers
> for Linux. Leaf node is an abortion in comparison to running Agent and
> the only advantage is if several users are reading news and using the
> same dialup.
>
> Why doesn't Knode remember it's settings like Window size?
>
> Why is adding to or editing Menues in Enlightenment such a pita? Shit
> I just drag and drop from menues in Windows. Seems pretty simple to
> me?
>
> How about PM firewall? Well this one is a real gem if ever there was
> one. Simple to set up and it works very well. It should have prompts
> for possible selections though as it took me a while to figure out
> that my external interface was ppp0 and I doubt Joe Sixpack will ever
> figure it out.
>
> A very nice program.
>
> ICS was another gem because as long as you don't set up networking
> during the install, it works perfectly except for demand dial.
>
>
> Why does Mandrake insist on changing my mouse settings every time it
> boots up? I had to turn off hardware detection for that one.
>
> Why doesn't my mouse "hover scroll" meaning if I have a split window
> in an application if I move the mouse over each window I just have to
> move the wheel to scroll. I do not have to click in each window. No
> focus setting under Linux that I tried allowed this to work.
>
> How come I can't use a printer that is on my network and connected to
> a machine running Windows 2k?
>
> Under Windows 2k on the same machine that is running Linux, I just
> select "Add Network Printer/browse and it finds the printer, add's the
> printer and I am done.
>
> I screwed with Samba till I was sick of dancing and could not make it
> work.
>
> Why is there so much way outdated documentation for Linux out there?
> Even Mandrakeuser.org has stuff that will render your system useless
> if you follow th instructions with more modern versions?
>
> Why is the Mandrake.com site just about useless?
>
> How come the upgrade CD I received turned kde into a vegetable? I had
> to reload the entire thing.
>
> How come if I try to install Enlightenment after the fact it fails
> dependencies even though they are on my system?
>
> I could go on for hours with all of the inconsistencies of Linux but
> now let's take a Windows 2k install and see how a quality,
> professional system should be installed.
>
> g:\setup.exe and away it goes.
> All hardware including my scanner and USB camera is detected.
> I didn't even have to install the scanner/camera programs because the
> default program installed with WIn2k worked fine but I did install
> PhotoShop which came with the scanner. Tell me about Gimpy again?
> After install, I did have to add Netbui protocol because for some
> strange reason my Linksys cards don't work without it?
> Click on create dial up.
> Click on share connection and allow demand dial.
> Install firewall (setup.exe again).
> Click on add a printer->network printer->browse and select the printer
> on the other system. Couldn't be any easier. Try that one under
> Linsux.
> That's it and everything works fine and I can enjoy my APPLICATIONS
> instead of screwing around with an operating system. Did I mention how
> many quality applications there are for Windows? The Linux
> applications seem like they are half done by comparison. Really they
> do. Compare that X-Traceroute program with NeoTrace. Or Gaim with the
> real AIM. It's not even close. Speaking of Gaim, how come it doesn't
> recognize my friends coming online real time, but requires me to log
> off and on again to reset it? Doesn't happen all the time, but enough
> to be annoying.
>
> Nope, Linux is a crude, nasty system that is full of warts and is in
> need of some real polish before it is ready for mainstream use.
>
> Maybe Microsoft will buy Linux and make it worth using someday?
>
>
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
** FOR YOUR REFERENCE **
The service address, to which questions about the list itself and requests
to be added to or deleted from it should be directed, is:
Internet: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
You can send mail to the entire list by posting to comp.os.linux.advocacy.
Linux may be obtained via one of these FTP sites:
ftp.funet.fi pub/Linux
tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux
sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux
End of Linux-Advocacy Digest
******************************
