Linux-Advocacy Digest #182, Volume #28 Wed, 2 Aug 00 13:13:09 EDT
Contents:
Re: There is no such thing as a free lunch! (Craig Kelley)
Re: There is no such thing as a free lunch!
Re: Is there such a thing as a free lunch?
Re: AARON KULKIS...USENET SPAMMER, LIAR, AND THUG
Re: Why is "ease of use" a dirty concept?
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: one of Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality
Re: Star Office to be open sourced (Florian Weimer)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Chris Wenham)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Chad Irby)
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It? (Chris Wenham)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.infosystems.gis,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as a free lunch!
From: Craig Kelley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 02 Aug 2000 10:25:53 -0600
Steve Wilbur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> The laws of physics (entropy) dictate there is no such thing as a free
> lunch. For there to be one, the perpetual motion machine would have to
> be a reality, and it is not.
>
> Even if the people using the software get it for free, get tech support
> for free, and even get people to use it on their behalf for free -
> there is still a cost - borne by SOMEONE. it's not free.
>
> There is no such thing as a free lunch
Yes, but we don't have people becoming mega-multi-billionaires at our
expense either. If this is the "free lunch" scale:
-$ <-----O-----------------------------------------------------> +$
|
\__Free lunch
Then Linux and Windows fall in these positions:
-$ <-----O---L-------------------------------W-----------------> +$
It's relatively free, when compared to Windows.
--
The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead.
Craig Kelley -- [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.isu.edu/~kellcrai finger [EMAIL PROTECTED] for PGP block
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.infosystems.gis,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: There is no such thing as a free lunch!
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:41:23 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 00:29:45 -0800, Steve Wilbur <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> How does my using Bubble sort without paying someone a patent
>> royalty violate any thermodynamic pseuo-laws?
>
>well it doesnt. you cant. (: but youre not getting it for free.
>you're making use of energy that was already expended (original
>development) and then adding additional energy by discovering
>(education, training, researching, lucky browsing) the algorithm,
>identifying it, evaluating it, selecting it, typing it in or
>downloading it, etc. You've spent energy to get that solution. You
>didn't get it for free.
>
>There is no free lunch.
However, the per consumer cost of the 'lunch' is so small as
to be equivalent to free for all but the most anal retentive
mathematicians.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.infosystems.gis,comp.infosystems.www.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,gnu.misc.discuss
Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as a free lunch?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:45:06 GMT
On 2 Aug 2000 14:07:58 GMT, Perry Pip <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 08:30:52 -0500,
>Nathaniel Jay Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>scaddenp wrote:
[deletia]
>>while it isn't completely 'free' altogether, it is free other than the
>>time that is spent by the developers when they could be doing other
>>things (see above).
>
>And where people in the Government have been involved in free
>software, it has been for thier own purposes. For example, NASA's
>Beowulf project has saved the taxpayers hundreds of millions in
>supercomputing costs. Compared to that, the cost of them giving back a
>few device drivers to the Linux community is minimal.
They needed those device drivers anyways...
The 'cost' would have been incurred.
They've just alleviated the need for pointless replication.
If in scratching some itch you develop something that is of value
to others, you have still scratched that itch and any costs
associated with that itch would have been incurred regardless of
whether or not you shared the results.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.fan.rush-limbough,soc.singles
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: AARON KULKIS...USENET SPAMMER, LIAR, AND THUG
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:37:59 GMT
>>>>> Aaron R Kulkis writes:
Aaron> Loren Petrich wrote:
>> Stock is nothing more than Pokemon cards unless one is both able
Aaron> Pokemon cards pay dividends????
Owning dividend paying stocks is dumb.
But you are correct that there is a lot more to stocks than
pokemon cards.
--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in talk.politics.misc...)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Subject: Re: Why is "ease of use" a dirty concept?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:48:38 GMT
On 2 Aug 2000 14:11:51 GMT, Donal K. Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <8m6lmj$r17$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>Roberto Alsina <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> The final result is that the functionality can not be moved away from
>> the toolkit except by doing massive reingeneering of all current
>> toolkits. Which will not happen.
>
>The closest you can (reasonably) get is to have a common protocol "on
>the wire" so that different toolkits can talk to each other. This is
>what Xdnd represents, and in doing so it is a great improvement on
>what went before (speaking from experience!)
This is also how you end up with GNOME being able to talk Motif
dnd. It merely reimplements the wire protocol for Motif dnd,
which is just a specification for interprocess communications
using the X message pipe.
[deletia]
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:52:53 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:43:50 GMT, Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] () writes:
>
>> OTOH, bulk local storage, and dedicated backup devices
>> have always been cheap and will likely continue to be
>> remarkably faster than offsite storage.
>
> I wasn't speculating that everyone would use it. I personally
> experienced the loss of my computer /and/ the on-site backups I'd
> made.
Professionals aren't infallible either. OTOH, a process
that's entirely under your own control is also completely
auditable by you. Instead of worry about whether or not
you've done things right, you can instead worry about whether
or not people you don't even know have done thigns correctly.
>
>
>> > There are a lot of people who like trivial toys and won't part with a
>> > critical mass of them. These could be stock tickers or finance
>> > applications and other things. Perhaps they have a Handspring Visor
>> > with a USB cradle and a bunch of programs that synch with Windows
>> > gadgets (PayPal, for example). I don't think USB Palm support or
>> > PayPal are available on Linux yet, but even if they are I could find
>> > others which aren't.
>>
>> The same can be said of NT.
>
> I know NT can run programs like Adobe Illustrator and other big
> names. (I guess maybe Linux could too with WINE, but then how many
OTOH, there are devices for which the vendor has no particular
intent of supporting NT5.
> people who set out to buy an Illustrator compatible PC would have the
> patience to set that up and wouldn't be bothered by the lack of phone
> support?)
What phone support?
[deletia]
There you go with that naieve assumption that a particular
consumer level vendor's tech support is going to be something
worthwhile...
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:57:10 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 11:02:03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 15:31:15 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>In article
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 20:17:02 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>>-- snip --
>>
>>> >Go ahead and laugh. The point is that a pre-loaded and
>>> >pre-configured Linux box could very well address the hypothetical
>>> >scenario which ***YOU*** came up with, your snottiness
>>> >notwithstanding.
>>>
>>> No way. Not in such a way that anyone new to computers could figure
>>> out.
>>
>>-- snip --
>>
>>> Face it - people have a huge comfort level with certain applications,
>>> and by and large they don't run under Linux.
>>
>>So, people who are "new to computers" already have a "comfort level with
>>certain applications" eh?
>>
>>When you make up your mind as to what your argument is, let us know.
>
>Face it - the vast majority have some computer experience, by and
>large that's WinXX applications and OSs, and that's what they'll be
WIMP is still just WIMP, even Under Unix.
Unless they have some legacy apps in particular that they
'simply need' for some reason, there is little relative
difference for the total novice between Linux, WinDOS,
BeOS or MacOS.
>comfortable with. Twist words all you like; the facts speak for
>themselves - Linux isn't a commercial success, even to the low end
>that might appreciate the extra $50 saved.
Actually it is a raging commercial success.
It's having more trouble breaking into a market with a lot more
network effects to contend with but even there it is slowly
gathering momentum.
In markets with simpler needs, it's simply outdoing Microsoft.
(embedded end user applications and servers)
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh,misc.legal,talk.politics.misc,alt.politics.libertarian,talk.politics.libertarian,alt.society.liberalism,soc.singles
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: one of Lenin's Useful Idiots denies reality
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 2000 16:51:56 GMT
>>>>> Aaron R Kulkis writes:
>> Which makes one wonder about the status of fencing stolen goods,
>> since it is a form of capitalism that depends on theft.
Aaron> You can always tell when Loren is losing....he starts trying to
Aaron> make ludicrous statements like 'crime is legal'.
He certainly is absurd here.
[snip threats]
>> And Napster and similar software have been dependent on massive
>> copyright violations; without such violations, they would have a *much*
>> smaller userbase. If one does not believe in intellectual property
>> rights, Napster is 100% legitimate. However, if one does...
Aaron> More idiocy from USENETS idiot in chief, LOREN PETRICH.
Aaron> Since you seem unfamiliar with the law of the land...
Aaron> READ IT AND WEEP, ASSHOLE
http> www.nara.gov/exhall/charters/constitution/constitution.html
Aaron> from Article 1, Section 8, of the United States Constitution:
Aaron> The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties,
Aaron> Imposts
Aaron> and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and
Aaron> general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and
Aaron> Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
Aaron> ...
Aaron> To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for
Aaron> limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their
Aaron> respective Writings and Discoveries;
Aaron> ...
Aaron> Thus, the preservation of Copyrights CLEARLY takes precedence over
Aaron> Napster. Napster is not being prosecuted for giving away music.
Aaron> Napster is being prosecuted for operating a common nuisance where
As a point of order, Napster is not be prosecuted, it is being
sued.
There is a difference you know, the government is not a party
to the action, just the referee.
Aaron> copyright violations are condoned and unchecked... in the same
Aaron> way as a property owner who fails to keep an unoccupied house
Aaron> free from heroin addicts who set up a "shooting gallery"...
--
Andrew Hall
(Now reading Usenet in talk.politics.misc...)
------------------------------
From: Florian Weimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: gnu.misc.discuss,comp.sys.sun.misc,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Star Office to be open sourced
Date: 02 Aug 2000 18:02:21 +0200
John Sanders <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> In fact, LINUX IS UNIX. System4, UNIX98, etc., etc. are not UNIX.
> This happened overnight, last night while you were not looking. Of
> course, this comment is toung-in-cheek. But one day it will be true.
I've just read that Caldera is going to buy large parts of SCO. ;-)
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 16:59:43 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 14:46:41 GMT, Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] () writes:
>
>> Unless you've got some recent firsthand experience with Intuit,
>> the general pervasive pessimism regarding tech support.
>
> I don't think a potential customer knows how good Intuit's support
> line is when they are in the store making a decision, but they factor
I'm not sure it crosses thier mind that they will be partaking
of it either. Typically with most products, if you ever need to
call the manufacturer, the product is a considered a failure.
Using 'tech support' as a trumpcard and a crutch is not useful.
> the presense of support into their decision anyway - especially if
> it's a choice between one that has it and one that doesn't.
>
>
>> I have experience on both sides of the phone as do others here.
>
> So do I. So what?
There's a first time for everything.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
From: Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:00:47 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> Face it - the vast majority have some computer experience, by and
> large that's WinXX applications and OSs, and that's what they'll be
> comfortable with. Twist words all you like; the facts speak for
> themselves - Linux isn't a commercial success, even to the low end
> that might appreciate the extra $50 saved.
I think the vast majority of people who don't own a computer yet have
experience with several applications, but not necessarily enough
experience with the operating system to make them uncomfortable with
anything else.
The browser is a good example of an application that millions of non
computer owners have experience in. The same application with the
same user interface is available on Linux, and for that matter OS/2
as well. And even if BeOS (or Brand X) doesn't have Netscape yet, the
user interface of its browser is close /enough/ to every other
browser's UI. A novice's exclusive experience with IE doesn't lock
them out of using Netscape, no matter how impatient they are to learn
trivial differences.
(And so I've just re-explained the best counter-argument that was put
against my pining for UI experimentation (and why I thought it
prudent to lust after the divorce of program and UI instead).)
But it's not the user interface that's acting as the barrier in the
stores. It's the name.
What is probably happening in the minds of new computer buyers who
choose Windows PCs is not: "Is this computer going to behave exactly
like Windows that I use at work" (they probably hate Windows already
because of that) but is instead the power of branding. "Microsoft"
and "Windows" are extremely powerful brands. So are "Quicken" and
"AOL".
Lawsuit Shmawsuit, put in front of "Windows" and "L-something"
they'll reach out and pick the brand-name just like they'll grab a
sixpack of Pepsi instead of Food Club Cola.
And yet Linux has plenty of publicity, but no advertising that's
reaching the Kitchentop potentials. They might be aware that Linux is
an alternative to Windows, but they have no corporate crafted image
of what Linux is supposed to be, repeated five times a day to
constantly remind them. (And why doesn't it surprise us, then, that
Linux is being snapped up by pseudo-jaded teenagers who reject
advertising and join the non-conformist clique?)
Mock TV commercials all you like, there's still a jingle in the head
of every Soccor Mom who picks up a box of Super Golden Crisp instead
of "Puffaroos", and there's still an image of spotted cows, not
penguins, in the minds of many who go shopping for their first PC.
In addition to the applications it's going to need anyway, the
single-most critical requirement for Linux kitchentop success is
going to be branding. Not big-budget Superbowl ads. Not /just/ ICQ
clones. And not WINE.
Regards,
Chris Wenham
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:00:45 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:54:02 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On 1 Aug 2000 17:43:52 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
>wrote:
>
>>> So someone points out that if it isn't compatible with a popular
>>> program like Quicken, the would-be customer would move on to the
>>> slightly more expensive machine that is.
>>
>>Note that this is a temporary situation until the popular
>>programs are all ported to Linux - or they all start
>>originating there.
>
>Exactly - which is why I think Linux will take off in a few years, but
>not anytime terribly soon.
>
It doesn't take nearly that long.
By that time the popular programs will just plain be cloned,
vendorlock dataformats and all.
This also wouldn't bode well once they are ported back to WinDOS.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:01:55 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:54:03 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 23:21:06 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 17:45:17 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>On 1 Aug 2000 12:41:11 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell)
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Quicken2000 could be bundled with the machine and running
>>>>>>>> via vmware or wine. Ardhi bundled a Mac version of Quicken
>>>>>>>> with Executor for awhile.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>/sarcasm
>>>>>>>Yeah, that would sell *really* well.
>>>>>>>/sarcasm off
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It all depends on how transparently it is done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Maybe in a few years, but not today.
>>>>
>>>>VMWare runs everything just about perfectly. If it were just a
>>>>bit cheaper I could see vendors bundling it, especially now that
>>>>most machines have plenty of disk space.
>>>
>>>And somehow you'd get it all working so an average user (remember, not
>>>a computergeek) will be able to understand it?
>>
>> Quicken did.
>
>An application is not an operating system.
>
All they do is tell the right things to the underlying facilities.
Such 'magic' is not merely limited to WinDOS.
>>>
>>>Again...maybe in a few years; not today.
>
>
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:03:28 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:54:05 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 23:22:23 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
>>On 1 Aug 2000 17:52:24 -0500, Leslie Mikesell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> VMWare runs everything just about perfectly. If it were just a
>>>>>>> bit cheaper I could see vendors bundling it, especially now that
>>>>>>> most machines have plenty of disk space.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Would Intuit provide support to a customer running Quicken in VMWare?
>>>>>
>>>>>I don't see why they wouldn't - or why any particular support
>>>>>would be necessary unless you lose your CD or something. If
>>>>>you want to be paranoid about being able to run under normal
>>>>>conditions you can configure VMWare to run from a partition
>>>>>that can be booted under its native OS. That way if you need
>>>>>help from someone who doesn't understand your configuration
>>>>>you can change it.
>>>>
>>>>But an entry level user would never know how to do that, would they?
>>>
>>>Every entry level windows user I've seen learned how to reboot
>>>right away. I think most could handle making one extra choice
>>>there.
>>
>> No, there would merely be a default configuration so that the
>> end user wouldn't have to strain their brain.
>>
>> Unix has been automating these sorts of things before DOS existed,
>> nevermind Windows.
>
>Seems like an amazing amount of trouble when simply buying a Win98
>machine in the first place is really what the customer wants....
No, the customer wants to do certain things.
Thost things might be easily achievable by that customer with
an Atari ST.
This is the essential problem with the "must use foo" crowd.
They encourage the de-abstraction of many simple problems.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
From: Chad Irby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:05:04 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Seems like an amazing amount of trouble when simply buying a Win98
> machine in the first place is really what the customer wants....
"Wants"
or
"Buys because that's what everyone else is doing."
--
Chad Irby \ My greatest fear: that future generations will,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] \ for some reason, refer to me as an "optimist."
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:06:10 GMT
On Wed, 02 Aug 2000 10:54:01 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 21:32:36 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] () wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 01 Aug 2000 18:31:23 GMT, Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
>>>
>>>> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
>>>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Quicken2000 could be bundled with the machine and running
>>>> >>>> via vmware or wine. Ardhi bundled a Mac version of Quicken
>>>> >>>> with Executor for awhile.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>/sarcasm
>>>> >>>Yeah, that would sell *really* well.
>>>> >>>/sarcasm off
>>>> >>
>>>> >> It all depends on how transparently it is done.
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>> >Maybe in a few years, but not today.
>>>>
>>>> VMWare runs everything just about perfectly. If it were just a
>>>> bit cheaper I could see vendors bundling it, especially now that
>>>> most machines have plenty of disk space.
>>>
>>> Would Intuit provide support to a customer running Quicken in VMWare?
>>
>> Would Intuit provide meaningful support otherwise?
>
>Sure.
>
>>[deletia]
>>
>> 'support' is really an absurd feature when it comes to
>> consumer computing.
>
>How so?
Companies that don't want to waste the time or the money on you.
TEch support people that are no more than people willing to read
the manuals and are just paid to answer the phone for calls from
people not willing ot read the manual. TEch support people that
aren't even that bright and just drone off of a script.
I never bother with the first tier of support drones for exactly
that reason. Niether do any of my colleagues in or out of MIS,
regardless of the service level involved.
--
Finding an alternative should not be like seeking out the holy grail.
That is the whole damn point of capitalism.
|||
/ | \
------------------------------
Crossposted-To:
comp.os.os2.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: Would a M$ Voluntary Split Save It?
From: Chris Wenham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2000 17:09:56 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] () writes:
> Instead of worry about whether or not
> you've done things right, you can instead worry about whether
> or not people you don't even know have done thigns correctly.
That's why I used the phrase "bank's reputation".
> What phone support?
>
> [deletia]
>
> There you go with that naieve assumption that a particular
> consumer level vendor's tech support is going to be something
> worthwhile...
I have already pointed out that the presense of phone support,
regardless of its quality, is considered by "Kitchentop" buyers when
deciding what to buy.
Not everybody ends up using the airbags in their car, but a buyer is
more likely to chose one with an airbag than without - and the
effectiveness of those airbags is not even tested or researched -
only taken for granted.
If two computers are sitting on a shelf side by side and one has
Linux and the other has Windows - Linux having strived to match the
features in Windows and be equal with it in the eyes of a Kitchentop
user - but now one has phone support for all of its applications and
the other doesn't, then the Windows machine is more likely to be
chosen. Especially when the buyer is not familiar with computers and
its anticipating the need for support.
He /doesn't know/ that the computer is so easy and reliable and the
support so lousy and useless. He doesn't have the experience that you
and others have had. The decision to buy is made in the store, not
after being on hold for two hours.
Phone support may only matter the same way Buzzwords do. In reality
they may be completely devoid of merit. But they /do/ become factors
in millions of decisions despite our best efforts to guffaw them
away.
Regards,
Chris Wenham
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