Linux-Advocacy Digest #182, Volume #35 Wed, 13 Jun 01 05:13:02 EDT
Contents:
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("JS \\ PL")
Re: Getting used to Linux (B'ichela)
Re: Redhat video problems. ("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("David Brown")
Re: which OS is better to learn for an entry level job? ("Edward Rosten")
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Andrew Reilly)
Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft (Terje Mathisen)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("David Brown")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts getting
good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("David Brown")
Re: IBM Goes Gay ("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... ("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("Edward Rosten")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) ("Edward Rosten")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 04:10:47 -0400
"Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b2660e0$0$2676$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Sandman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > In article <9fua39$1ek$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Ayende Rahien"
> > <don'[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > Just to clear the confution, here is an image of how the Smart Tags
> works.
> > >
> > > http://www10.ewebcity.com/ayende/SmartTags.png
> > >
> > > Notice the purple line underneat Critix (mid left one), that is how
you
> know
> > > that there will be a response if you hover above it.
> > > Notice the menu that pops up if you click on the little graphic.
> > > In order to get to it, you need to hover above an underlined word, and
> click
> > > on the icon that appears, then the menu would appear.
> >
> > 1. As a web designer, I think this is horrible. If I don't want MS to
> screw
> > the design on my pages up, what do I do?
You put in a script which sends IE6 browsers to purgatory (or whatever
browser we're talking about that has so called "smart tags") Or send them to
a seperate set of files which are one big image of each page you're
displaying. It's a little hard for a browser to screw with the design of one
big image for a page! Or make the site all Flash (tm) , or find the correct
meta tag which tells the browser not to use smart tags.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (B'ichela)
Subject: Re: Getting used to Linux
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 07:00:48 GMT
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:47:22 -0700, Paolo Ciambotti <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>So anyway, I happened to see a copy of Caldera Linux sitting on the rack
>for the whopping grand total of $29.95 and I read the back cover of the
>box to see what all was included and thought what the hell, it's only
>thirty bucks and if it totally sucks I can go back and piss away three
>grand for the real stuff and take it off my taxes.
>
>Never went back.
In my case due to my fixed income, the windows software was
just not a practicality. I mean I like to WRITE software. But, due to
my legal blindess the needed adaptive equipment to use Windows was
$$EXPENSIVE$$, never mind the software for windows. For many years I
used Os9 Level II on my Coco3 as it was not totally GUI dependent. I
usually work in "console" I grew used to multi-user, multi-tasking
operations and Ms-dos/windows 3.1 was just not my style.
When I found that I could aquire Legally a full featured
Multitasking Operating system. With a Compiler for peanuts, I was
hooked! I started with Slackware 3.1 and now run a heavily modified
slackware 3.9 system with X servers running on a 486 box with 8mb of
ram! (its only a X terminal type of config, the actually code runs on
the central 486/DX2 66 mhz 20mb box with 2 gb of Scsi storage in the
bedroom.
Since I switched to Linux, my Coco3 had remained dormant for
many years. I just packed it up today to make room for the little 486
that is being used as a X terminal.
Even the X terminal (running slackware 3.9) has a dumb
terminal plugged into it! (I ran out of wire for Serial cables) and
the 10base2 cable which fead the X terminal was already there. Since
the computer had two serial ports... I plugged my Digital Rainbow 100A
into COM1.
--
B'ichela
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat video problems.
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:21:41 +0100
>><begin rant>
>>
>>I don't know why the hell BT didn't get everyone on to ISDN?
>>
>>OK, I know ISDN isn't that great, but it's a hell of a lot better than a
>>modem, especially since the connection seed is much more consistent.
>>
>>It isn't as if the entire bloody phone network runs at 64 kb per second
>>anyway. All ISDN does is skip the A/D converters in the RCU (remote
>>concentrator units). Esentially what everyone has to do is send an
>>analogue signal down a line that then then gets didgtised at the speed
>>ISDN runs at anyway.
>>
>>But for some reason, they claimed ISDN was something `special' and
>>charded a bloody fortune if you waned to use it.
>
> You have to change the line card at the TE, and provide suitable
> equipment on the customer's premises to get a digital signal down the
> 2-wire line.
When I last looked, the line rental was pricey, so there was more than
just an initial equipment cost.
>>Note, the entire network is a plesiochronus network that gives a like at
>>64kb/s (fixed for the duration of the call) between any two RCUs. The
>>RCU's then digitize or anaolgueize the data and chuck it down a twisted
>>pair ot the telephone.
>
> Not quite. The 64kbit/s network is being replaced (albeit slowly) with
> a new generation of switches with an ATM core. The transmission network
> between the switches is mostly synchonous, not plesiochronous any more.
Transmission between which switches? The DMSUs or the DCCEs? I also
thought that the link between the RCUs and the DCCEs is still mainly
plesiochronus.
Besides, this changeover is much more recent than the introduction of
ISDN.
> The other job of the line card (aside from PCM to analogue conversion)
> is to provide a balanced bridge to get four wires out of 2, as well as
> providing signalling from the customer's premises to the switch.
> Otherwise you wouldn't be able to dial anything!
4 wires out of 2?
And I kind of forgot about signalling.
> I thought that home highway pricing was the same as PSTN once you'd had
> the install done, but I might be wrong - maybe you should look into it?
I think its more.
Anyway, I still think that they could have made life much easier and got
everyone over to ISDN (or most people) a lot more easily. It would also
save them quite a lot of hassle now since they're being so slow with ASDL
rollout (for a change).
-Ed
PS I'll stop ranting now.
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:19:26 +0200
drsquare wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>...
>On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 16:48:23 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] (The Ghost In The Machine))
>wrote:
>
>>In comp.os.linux.advocacy, drsquare
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>>As for the Japanese: quick, pick one: did you want hundreds of
>>thousands of Japanese to die, or hundreds of thousands of Americans
>>and millions of Japanese, and a long, protracted invasion which
>
>There are many alternatives.
>
There are a few things to remember about the nuking of Japan. Most
importantly, the bombing was no worse than that which the British and the
Germans had done to each other in Europe. The only two real difference was
that it used a single bomb at a time rather than a fleet of bombers, and
that it left more people with permanent injuries from radiation rather than
just killing them. Do you know how "fire bombing" worked? That was when a
fleet of bombers dropped vast numbers of incendery and explosive bombs over
a small area. The massive fires caused by this lead to searing winds at
hurrican speeds, inrushes of oxygen that cause people well outside the
bombing area to sufficate where they stand (or hide in bomb shelters), and a
vast mushroom cloud forms above the bombed area, and drops thick layers of
ash and rubble over a wide area. Barring the lack of radiation, doesn't
that remind you of something? This technique was used on a number of
occasions - if I remember rightly, Dresden was fire-bombed to greater
devastation than Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
Are you a fan of Black Adder? (You can argue back and forth about film
qualities on each side of the Atlantic, but the Europeans are *much* better
at commedy.) In one Black Adder Goes Forth episode, he explains about the
cause of WW1. Basically, each side amassed hugh armies and military might
on the basis that neither side would dare attack the other, leading to
eternal peace in Europe. "There was one tiny flaw in this plan. It was
bollocks". Since the development of atomic weapons, it is essentially this
same "peace plan" that has kept the atomic powers from anialating each
other. The only difference is that after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, people
really do know how bad atomic war could be. Without that prior warning, I
think it would have been much more likely for some meglomanic US or Soviet
president to push the button.
The decision to drop the bombs was a rotten plan. But it was still the best
one at the time. If you are going to critisise the US, do so for the wrongs
they have done in the name of "the American Way", not for the terrible
things they *had* to do.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: which OS is better to learn for an entry level job?
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:22:31 +0100
In article <9g60ae$1mr$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
> Do you remember the Amiga? That too was a great system, esp. programming
> with AMOS and AmigaBASIC.
>
> Matthew Gardiner
I naver had an Amiga, but I used them a fair bit.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
Crossposted-To: comp.arch,misc.invest.stocks
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Reilly)
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 08:26:05 GMT
On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:32:10 -0700, Maynard Handley wrote:
> Oh give me a fucking break. This is why adults consider the Linux crowd to
> be a bunch of amateurs.
So who's the amateur? I replied (helpfully, I thought) that
there are a number of existence proofs that the problem you
asked about is trivially solved, and that I had indeed been
using that solution for more than ten years (closer to fifteen).
You responded with invective.
> The point I raised was that it is time-consuming to move from one box to a
> new one.
I know that it is not. Or need not be.
> Your answer is "well the apps are available as source".
That wasn't the essence of my answer, it was an observation on
the side. The applications are also available in binaries,
shrink-wrapped if you like, and flashy GUI installers are both
available and irrelevant to the argument.
> So FUCKING WHAT??? How does that reduce the time involved?
It has nothing to do with the time involved, but it does mean
that I am not limited my choice of my next platform is not
limited to those with the same processor architecture. I could
care less if that is an issue for you personally. You were
asking about the ease of upgrading to a new platform so that you
could continue to work, and not notice the difference. Choice
of platform is one of the variables of the upgrade process.
> The problem is NOT the availability of the apps or data or whatever else.
Oh? You're the one who brought up the availability of the apps
on the new platform.
> The problem is that I can't hit a single button, come back in an hour, and
> have the new machine just ready to work the same way my old machine did.
No, because you are not using the same platform that I am, and
your platform makes that particular operation more difficult
than it needs to be.
> In my world, the world of consumer computer users, people who have lives
> outside computing, we expect things to work that way, with single button
> installers. The idea of spending twelve hours surfing the net downloading
> packages and building them does not thrill us to our cloacas.
In my world, I know that I can use a computer that doesn't get
in my way, or stop me from getting my work done, even when that
involves upgrading to a new computer. Upgrading does not involve
any web surfing at all, and is indeed a "set it going and go and
have a sandwich" affair.
> if you look at my original post, my point was my claim that this lack of a
> single-button way to move an old machine to a new machine has a
> demonstrable economic effect, that there is a substantial base of
> consumers out there who are wealthy enough to buy a new system, and
> willing to buy a new system, but could not be bothered to do so because
> the cost (in TIME) of moving everything from one machine to the next is
> too high; and that by fixing this MS (with money from Intel in necessary,
> since Intel wins as much as MS) could do as much as anything else to
> improved their revenue stream.
And you are indeed probably correct. In the last month or two
I watched my Father upgrade from one Dell/Windows system to
another. It was a horrible experience.
But you weren't just making a claim about MS. You were asking,
in general, on _any_ platform, whether the process of upgrading
the hardware could be managed easily, without disrupting the
user's environment.
Pretty obviously, if the platform (OS) provides a good
abstraction of the hardware, and you're planning to use the same
OS on the next platform, then the software that runs on that
platform, using those abstractions, isn't going to notice the
difference.
> Since then I have not read a single post since then that makes me change
> my mind. I have, however, once again had a chance to view just how
> fundamentally out of touch with reality your average Linux zealot is.
I'm not a Linux zealot: I don't use Linux. I'm in touch with my
reality, which involves computers that help me to get my work
done. The grief that your computer systems cause you would be
amusing if it weren't so wide-spread.
--
Andrew
------------------------------
From: Terje Mathisen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.arch
Subject: Re: The beginning of the end for microsoft
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:25:33 +0200
Stephen Fuld wrote:
> Wait a minute here. Let's take a step back. In response to Maynard's
> original question, I pointed out that there are several third party packages
> that purport to do pretty much exactly what he wants. They do this by
> "cloning the disk" across any one of several interfaces, after a floppy or a
> CD is booted into the new (presumably blank) machine. Yes, you may have to
> fiddle with the drivers for some non standard peripherals, but for the most
> part, it is supposed to be painless.
I've done this several times, it certainly does work. (Using
PartionMagic or DriveImage, both from PowerTech)
If you've read Cryptonomicon, one of the things the author gets sort of
right is how a laptop gets hammered by an EMP, whereupon our hero
borrows a new laptop, inserts the old drive (which still works, even if
the machine didn't? I guess laptop onboard disk controllers are EMP
hardened!), and boots up.
He then has to fix some stuff related to the changed hw environment, but
with some new drivers & stuff, he's back in business.
This is how it works after using PM or DI to clone the old disk onto a
new machine.
Terje
--
- <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Using self-discipline, see http://www.eiffel.com/discipline
"almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:23:04 +0200
GreyCloud wrote in message ...
>> >
>> Disease wiped out more Natives Americans, then anything else.
>
Although the New Americans were quick to help with the diseases too. A high
proportion of Native Americans are badly affected by milk - it reduces their
immunities to a number of diseases. Yet American authorities continued to
practically force-feed Native American children with milk long after they
knew this. The authorities could pretend to be pro-Native American by
providing free milk, while encouraging their demise.
>Yes, small pox just about wiped them out. The disease came over from
>Europe.
>
------------------------------
From: "David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:32:16 +0200
Stephen S. Edwards II wrote in message ...
>"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:9fngm6$obl$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
>> >If you don't understand that, then you are a spineless
>> >coward.
>>
>> People will continue to mock you as long as you make this ridiculous
>> assosiation that those who do not claim pride or love for their country
>are
>> cowards.
>
>A person who chooses not to take sides is the very
>definition of a coward, Mr. Brown. If you cannot
>see that, then God help you, sir.
>
No, a coward is someone who does not stand up for what they believe in. I
will choose sides in an arguement when I believe one side is significantly
more "right" than the other. Only a close-minded fool would think that any
discussion has precisely two diametrically opposite "sides" from which one
must choose absolutely.
------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: IBM Goes Gay
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:33:53 +0100
>> I have recently been singing the praises of BBC Basic. Will that do?
>
> The Z80 was the best processor ever made.
Gak!
6502 rules OK!
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:39:43 +0100
>> >> >> >W2k rockz and linux suxors. Need I say more? :)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Yeah, American Windows and foreign Linux. Now what does that tell
>> >> >> you?
>> >> >
>> >> >Linux is a flavor of an American OS.
>> >>
>> >> Written from scratch by a Finn...
>> >
>> >Based on an American OS.
>>
>> For use on something derived from European technology.
>
> Yet another worthless assertion with ZERO evidence to back it up.
The computer originated in europe in case you didn't know. The first ever
device that could be classified as a modern computer (ie it was Turing
complete) was built in Germany during WWII by Konrad Zuse (do a google
search, it shows up a lot of stuff) and was complete (IIRC) in 1943.
If you look at a bit of history, you will realise that the development of
the computer is a truly multinational phenomenon and will quit with "The
US is better than... because they invented...".
BTW, you're completely wrong and there is plenty of
evidence.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:51:09 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Edward Rosten wrote:
>>
>> >> > Unlike your country, we Americans do not feel the need to have our
>> >> > government take the majority of our income and then dole it back
>> >> > out to us as seen fit.
>> >>
>> >> maximum of 40% is not a majority.
>> >
>> > Ahhh... that's 40% of your paycheck only. Now factor in sales tax
>> > and specifically the outrageous petro tax and it becomes a majority
>> > of your paycheck going to the government.
>>
>> There is nothing outrageous about the petrol tax. We use far too much
>> petrol in this country. As for your low petrol tax, where has it got
>> you, oh yeah, the worlds biggest polluter. Great.
>
> Nothing outrageous, weren't there like huge riots over there a few
> months back?
Nope. There were non violent protests. The protestors disbanded pretty
much when people started coming in to create violence.
I assume you're talking about petrol anyway, since there have been
unrelated riots recently.
>> >> > Nowhere in the world does an individual have a greater chance of
>> >> > success building a small business than in the USA. No other
>> >> > nation on Earth puts more money into research and development than
>> >> > the USA.
>> >>
>> >> Do you have any evidence to back this up, or are you just spouting?
>> >
>> > Errrr.. yeah... I have a lot of evidence of this - I offer as
>> > evidence the United States of America (more venture capital, more R&D
>> > dollars, and the least amount of red tape and government intrusion
>> > for starting a business than anywhere in the world). in other words,
>> > the USA *is* the evidence!
>>
>> You have provided no evidence apart from your rants.
>
> You have provided ZERO evidence for your worthless assertions.
I haven't asserted anything except saying he has provided no evidence. My
evidence fot this is in the post. Read it.
>> >> > Without the USA, mother Russia would have gobbled up most all of
>> >> > Europe long ago.
>> >>
>> >> Without mother Russia, the Nazia would have gobbled up the "land of
>> >> the free" long ago.
>> >
>> > I must have missed that novel piece of history.
>>
>> Think about it. If the communists didn't sacrifice 20 million people
>> against the Nazis and stop them dead on the eastern front, the Nazis
>> would have overrun Europe with out much problem. You guys would have
>> been next in the firing line. And there is a reasonable chance that the
>> US would have been defeated by the Nazis, but we will never know that.
>> Just thionk, you might owe all of your lives tio the commies.
>
> And you owe all of your lives to us. Think about that.
How does that work? Sounds like we all "owe our lives" to the Russians
for saving all or our arses in WWII. And mabey if we haden't started the
war, Europe would have been overrun completely rather than stalled for
long enough and resulted in the nazis overruning all of us anyway. So
basically, if you think that the war was won single handedly by any party
you are a complete idiot who really needs to read some more about history.
> Do you really think a country about the size of Texas could defeat a
> country with probably more than 10 times it's population and even bigger
> sizewise? C'mon man, grow a brain.
Last time I looked, the whole of europe (what Germany was pretty much in
WWII) is bigger than Texas. Secondly, there were many, many events that
meant that the war was balanced on a knife edge.
For instance, one guy (what was his name?) made a slight mistake and
calcuated that the amount of uranium needed for an atomic bomb was about
10 times higher than needed, had he not made that mistake, we'd all be
dead now since the Nazis had a very reliable, unstoppable, long range
delivery system, since their missile technology was about a decade ahead
that of any other country.
> We should've let the Nazis stoot-slap your asses, it would've shut you
> up.
If you knew anything about histroy, that is exactly what happened. You
only came in to the war years after it was started when Perl Harbour was
destroyed by the Japanese.
Now I have a question for you: did you fall asleep in histroy lessons or
is everyone taught as badly as you?
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:52:19 +0100
>>
>> We should've let the Nazis stoot-slap your asses, it would've shut you
>> up.
>
> More ideally, we should've listened more carefully to Patton, and just
> taken the USSR when we had the chance.
Rule of combat #1, never attack Russia. It has never been succesfully
done. The problem was that if the US had failed, they would have been
thoroughly up the creek.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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------------------------------
From: "Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
starts getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2001 10:53:18 +0100
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> drsquare wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 12:04:25 +0100, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
>> (Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>>
>> >> > Without the USA, mother Russia would have gobbled up most all of
>> >> > Europe long ago.
>> >>
>> >> Without mother Russia, the Nazia would have gobbled up the "land of
>> >> the free" long ago.
>> >
>> >I must have missed that novel piece of history.
>>
>> Americans do have a habit of being ignorant of historical facts.
>
> Care to share your version?
Well, you seem to be pretty ignorant.
-Ed
--
(You can't go wrong with psycho-rats.) (u98ejr)(@)(ecs.ox)(.ac.uk)
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