Linux-Advocacy Digest #411, Volume #29 Mon, 2 Oct 00 23:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? ("Drestin Black")
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? ("Drestin Black")
Re: How low can they go...? ("James A. Robertson")
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: How low can they go...? ("James A. Robertson")
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? ("Drestin Black")
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? ("Drestin Black")
Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway? ("Drestin Black")
Re: How low can they go...? (T. Max Devlin)
Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop ("Erik Funkenbusch")
Re: Unix rules in Redmond ("Drestin Black")
Re: How low can they go...? ("Erik Funkenbusch")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: 2 Oct 2000 21:52:04 -0500
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8r8t5t$1e70$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8r8nv2$1e70$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> Would you believe....Under the extreme stress of winamp, a nice
windowed
> >> 3d visualization and putty (ssh client), my windows 2000 machine
> >> bluescreened on my first attempt to reply to this post.
>
> > No. Unless you told me you were overclocking your CPU or you had some
> > odd hardware with poor drivers.
>
> My cpu is not overclocked currently (it was, I had some problems with it)
> and is a PIII 666. I have a hercules TNT2 ultra (great card, one of 500
> made) which is not overclocked, and im using the most recent stable
drivers
> from www.nvidia.com. The voltage on both processors is nominal, and
neither
> one ever tops off 118 degrees farenheit.
>
> I do not have this problem with BeOS, XFree86 4.0.1 or windows millenium,
oddly.
>
I love the way abracadabra pretends he knows what any of those things means
(one of 500 made, you believed that story?) PIII-666? How about 667 you
yutz, no such thing as a PIII666 check Intels site if you are about to
further embaress yourself. "voltage on BOTH processors?" Oh really? So, you
are implying you have ANY control WHATSOEVER over the voltage on your 1/500
TNT2 card? AND only an idiot would buy a hercules ultra and not overclock
it, THAT'S the only reason they were cool.
Look, face it, you lied, again. W2K bluescreening? Not unless you've got
faulty hardware and/or bad drivers. Otherwise - it's the fastest way to spot
a trolling liar.
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: 2 Oct 2000 21:52:06 -0500
why? are the linux IDE drivers that bad?
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8raaa4$14af$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > I have the exact opposite experience, in that Win98Se doesn't drop a
> > note but XMMS is always stalling and in addition if I have XMMS
> > already started I can't start Wine->Agent which just hangs the machine
> > until I close XMMS at which point Agent (under Wine) starts and I can
> > now restart XMMS...
>
> Do you have DMA IDE drives? If so, use hdparm to turn on DMA, and your
> skipping problems will very likely be solved.
>
>
>
>
> -----.
>
------------------------------
From: "James A. Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:53:36 GMT
"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>
You haven't mentioned the main reason I stopped arguing - Mr. Revusky is
tiresome. He has one mode (non listening attack), and I got real tired
of that real fast.
There's also the fact that this forum fills very quickly, and when I
travel (quite frequently), I typically just mark all messages read.
When I'm busy, I have better things to do than engage in the frag fest
that is c.l.j.a.
>
> I don't recall how accurate James' representation was, but I have tried
> not to fault either your or his credibility out of hand. I would point
> out that you make my point by continuing to discuss this with me, while
> James, as you've noted he might characteristically do, simply avoided
> the argument. That is certainly a point in your favor, but there isn't
> any 'magic number' which will conclusively shed light on whether he was
> backing the wrong horse in a troll-war, or pointing out ethical
> considerations which you weren't willing to face, such as whether it is
> appropriate to 'out' an anonymous poster because you don't like what he
> says, whether about you or anyone else, whether true or not. I have to
> admit it seems a ludicrous position to try to defend, but I always go
> back to the point that, given the ability to establish a false identity
> as an even less honest form of anonymity, to suppose that trying to
> force everyone to post under their real identity (which I don't
> necessarily oppose, but don't find it possible in the current context),
> and worse to trade a presumption of privacy to enforce the principle by
> 'outing' someone to their employer is not a reasonable approach.
>
> --
> T. Max Devlin
> *** The best way to convince another is
> to state your case moderately and
> accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
>
> ======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
>
> Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
>
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>
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--
James A. Robertson
Technical Product Manager (Smalltalk), Cincom
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 22:55:38 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said James A. Robertson in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> Said James A. Robertson in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> >> Said James A. Robertson in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>> >> >"T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >So, since Windows sucks (at least from what you have posted, that's what
>> >> >you believe), then why is it successful?
>> >>
>> >> Anti-competitive pre-load contracts, anti-competitive developments,
>> >> anti-competitive marketing, and pretty much a slew of anti-competitive,
>> >> and illegal, business activity. Next question?
>> >
>> >So if they do this, how did AOL survive the onslaught?
>>
>> Probably through anti-competitive activities, would be my guess. I
>> though AOL was anti-competitive since before Win95. But I wouldn't tag
>> any specific action of AOL to 'survive the onslaught' outside of the
>> common knowledge, without evidence. The fundamental issue was probably
>> one of using growth by acquisition to fuel false marketing of
>> 'popularity'. "Look at how successful we are (using capital to buy out
>> all the competition). Boy, we must be *really great*."
>
>So in your mind, any business success is via cheating.
You obviously misread something. Try again.
>It hasn't
>ocurred to you that good marketing and a 'good enough' product are all
>that's needed? (See Java for a pure example of this)
No, a competitive product in a competitive market is all that's needed.
When you say 'Java', do you mean the product, the platform, or the
technology?
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
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------------------------------
From: "James A. Robertson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2000 02:55:12 GMT
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > I don't believe you have any grounds at all for assuming that "they
> will
> > probably think the accusation is true." You'd have to provide some
> > evidence that someone's real 'good name' can actually be damaged by
> some
> > *anonymous* person on Usenet calling them a racist, an alcoholic, or a
> > pedophile. I don't know of anyone with a good name that would be
> > damaged by such obviously absurd accusations.
>
> Well, actually, a good friend of mine was in a situation (outside
> usenet) where someone made a false accusation that he was a racist. His
> lawyer managed to sort this out and it had to be done quickly, because
> in communities, well, people like gossips. Specially nasty gossips. And
> then people will avoid to be associated with you, because, well, there
> is a sort of suspicious black cloud over you.
>
Note the term lawyer. If you felt wronged by JTK, then a civil court is
the appropriate forum.
--
James A. Robertson
Technical Product Manager (Smalltalk), Cincom
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<Talk Small and Carry a Big Class Library>
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: 2 Oct 2000 21:55:19 -0500
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ra29a$14af$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy MH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Anyone with any experience knows that you either have a hardware\driver
> > problem, or you're lying. Why perpetrate such BS? Does this help your
> > precious Linux? It only serves to denigrate the weight of any assertion
you
> > make, relegating you to irrelevant. Get a clue.
>
> 1. I'm not lying.
> 2. I gave my specs in detail, and the problem in moderate detail.
> 3. Its not my "precious" linux. If youd been paying attention, you would
have
> seen that I dont particularly like linux any more than I like windows.
My
> tastes go beyond both.
> 5. The NVIDIA driver *may* be a problem, I never said this was impossible.
I just
> find it interesting that the W2K version of their driver would
therefore be less
> stable than their windows ME version. And beyond that, (for a little
added detail)
> it is only *one* winamp 3d visualization which causes this problem.
The rest work
> almost unbelievably well.
> 6. Shut the fuck up, you stupid asshole.
1. Liar
2. who cares, you're lying.
3. ha!
4. you can't count or number a list
5. Being as how the exact opposite has been reported by every hardware site
out there, I find again that you are full of it. AND beyond that, obviously
it's the winamp plugin that's the problem you uneducated moron.
6. tsk tsk - your desperation is showing (again)
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: 2 Oct 2000 21:56:08 -0500
"." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ra230$14af$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:8r9bkm$1e11$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >>
> >> > "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> > news:8r8t5t$1e70$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> > "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> >> > news:8r8nv2$1e70$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> >> >> Would you believe....Under the extreme stress of winamp, a nice
windowed
> >> >> >> 3d visualization and putty (ssh client), my windows 2000 machine
> >> >> >> bluescreened on my first attempt to reply to this post.
> >> >>
> >> >> > No. Unless you told me you were overclocking your CPU or you had
some
> >> >> > odd hardware with poor drivers.
> >> >>
> >> >> My cpu is not overclocked currently (it was, I had some problems
with it)
> >> >> and is a PIII 666. I have a hercules TNT2 ultra (great card, one of
500
> >> >> made) which is not overclocked, and im using the most recent stable
drivers
> >> >> from www.nvidia.com. The voltage on both processors is nominal, and
> > neither
> >> >> one ever tops off 118 degrees farenheit.
> >> >>
> >> >> I do not have this problem with BeOS, XFree86 4.0.1 or windows
millenium,
> >> > oddly.
> >>
> >> > Then no, I don't believe you.
> >>
> >> > What was the exact BSOD message?
> >>
> >> I can recreate the situation about 90% of the time. I'll take a
picture of
> >> it with my new digital camera.
>
> > If, in fact, it happens that often, it's 100% a hardware issue or a
driver
> > issue, not a Win2K issue. If it's something like IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL
or
> > PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA, it's definately a hardware issue.
>
> This may indeed be true, but then that would insinuate that the hardware
is
> only broken inside W2K, and NOT inside windows ME. (not to mention other
operating
> systems).
So, yutz boy - what IS the error message? Hmmmm??
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: What kind of WinTroll Idiot are you anyway?
Date: 2 Oct 2000 21:57:13 -0500
"kosh" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:8ra14v$kd2$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <8r8t5t$1e70$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy Chad Myers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> "." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> news:8r8nv2$1e70$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>> Would you believe....Under the extreme stress of winamp, a nice
> >>> windowed
> >>> 3d visualization and putty (ssh client), my windows 2000 machine
> >>> bluescreened on my first attempt to reply to this post.
> >
> >> No. Unless you told me you were overclocking your CPU or you had some
> >> odd hardware with poor drivers.
> >
> > My cpu is not overclocked currently (it was, I had some problems with
> > it) and is a PIII 666. I have a hercules TNT2 ultra (great card, one of
> > 500 made) which is not overclocked, and im using the most recent stable
> > drivers from www.nvidia.com. The voltage on both processors is
> > nominal, and neither one ever tops off 118 degrees farenheit.
> >
> > I do not have this problem with BeOS, XFree86 4.0.1 or windows
> > millenium, oddly.
> >
>
> That woudl be consitent with my experience also. My experience with nvidia
> is that their drivers are fast but unstable. I have a Geforce 256 DDR card
> and it crashed all the time when I had w2k installed. Crashed with winamp
> 3d stuff, 3d games. etc. Everytime the system BSOD appeared it was caused
> by the nvidia driver.
>
> This is also in line with my experience with them for their linux drivers.
> Speed before stability. W2K can be a stable OS with good hardware and good
> drivers. That pretty much means no nvidia eq. I don't run any windows os
> any more but for different reasons. I just find that for what I do Linux
> better serves my needs then windows does.
Amazing how the rest of the world finds NVIDIA to be the single best chipset
and drivers combination of every video card out there... I never cease to be
amazed that only linux users manage to have trouble running windows and
using the most stable drivers in existance... sheesh...
------------------------------
From: T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2000 23:00:25 -0400
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Said James A. Robertson in comp.os.linux.advocacy;
>Jonathan Revusky wrote:
>>
>> "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
>> <very big snip because I've addressed most of these points in the past
>> and I'm tired now>
>>
>> Oh, and as for your points concerning who has more credibility
>> etcetera... look, you can observe carefully, and I think that you'll
>> discover that, whatever else you end up thinking of me, my discourse is
>> pretty meticulously truthful. The people I argue with, for the most part
>> -- James Robertson in this particular instance being an example -- are
>> not so meticulously truthful. For example, I sent you material in
>> private that should have provided some insight into the extent to which
>> James, in this instance, was misrepresenting what happened prior to that
>> point in the debate.
>
>Yeesh. All I really wanted to get across was this:
>
>-- In the past, I didn't have a lot of patience with anonymous postings
>to a forum like this. I figured that unlike politics, there really
>wasn't much to fear in putting a public face on your opinions.
I can understand that. But I have had reasons to post anonymously
myself in the past, and I do, in fact, maintain the right to do so if
*I* consider it necessary, without having other people second-guess me.
I can appreciate that double-checking someone's identity would be nice
when they are posting false and inflammatory comments, but I simply
don't think that it is within someone's right to break someone else's
anonymity in a non-authenticated public system.
>Yes, JTK is generally crude, uninformed, (pick your favorite adjective
>here). But having followed this forum for year, I can honestly say that
>the level of vitriol spewed by his attackers goes far beyond anything
>he's ever said. Heck, for the most part he isn't worth responding to at
>all.
Such is normally the case; that's why we still call them 'trolls', even
though they don't just cross-post "God doesn't exist" in the
fundamentalist religion forums.
>I cam to the conclusion that I was wrong after watching the amount of
>harrassment that people like pvdl were willing to heap on JTK after
>figuring out who he is. Now I'm watching JS/PL go after Max. At this
>point, I understand the desire for anonymity. Some people dislike
>differing opinions so much that all they can think to do is stifle them.
Precisely, which is why my own desire that people post under their real
identity is only matched by my insistence that unless this is a
requirement for everyone, it cannot be required of any.
>Recall that the answer to bad speech isn't censorship; it's more
>speech. And as to libel - if you believe that you have a case, the
>appropriate forum is <not> an attack on a person where he works; rather,
>it's a civil suit in a courtroom. If you don't have the guts to go
>after a person with the legal means made available to you, then just do
>us all a favor and:
>
>-- pipe down
>-- drink warm milk
>-- take a nap
Thanks, James. You've proven to be quite reasonable.
Thanks for your time. Hope it helps.
--
T. Max Devlin
*** The best way to convince another is
to state your case moderately and
accurately. - Benjamin Franklin ***
======USENET VIRUS=======COPY THE URL BELOW TO YOUR SIG==============
Sign the petition and keep Deja's archive alive!
http://www2.PetitionOnline.com/dejanews/petition.html
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------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Why should anyone prefer Linux to Win2k on the DeskTop
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:20:08 -0500
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >The Adaptec ASPI driver problem?
>
> If the predominant SCSI vendor's cards can't be expected to work
> on the predominant OS vendor's OS, you might as well build yourself
> a cabin in the mountains and find a bear cub to rescue.
The card works fine. ASPI is a low-level API for programs to access SCSI
information. This isn't part of the OS itself, rather an API that Adaptec
wrote and maintains.
> Besides, if they didn't change their driver model so often, and
> actually planned for forward compatibility, they wouldn't have
> to worry about such things.
That's the problem. Win95 was never supposed to exist in the first place.
NT was supposed to replace Win 3.1, but people didn't buy into it. Win95
was a stopgap to get people to start moving to Win32, but it took on a life
of it's own as well, long beyond what MS had wanted.
The market actually pushed MS into this predicament, they did not choose it.
------------------------------
From: "Drestin Black" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Unix rules in Redmond
Date: 2 Oct 2000 22:07:03 -0500
what? WHAT? hahahahhahhhahahahahhhahahahaahhahhahhaahhhahahaahhaha
<breath>
hahahahhhahhahahahahahahaaahahahahahaaahahahhahahhaha
"Gary Hallock" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> However you want to interpret the Mindcraft tests, it is old news. Linux
beats
> W2K hands down now.
>
> Gary
>
------------------------------
From: "Erik Funkenbusch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
comp.lang.java.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: How low can they go...?
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2000 22:26:32 -0500
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> By supporting their clients, so that the systems which remain
functional
> >> are operational enough to support mere maintenance, over the incessant
> >> and repetitive upgrades/re-architectures necessary to support Exchange,
> >> which really does suck, in the end. Too bad its tied to the monopoly
> >> via NT, and is anti-competitive to the extreme.
> >
> >Lotus is not tied to any monopoly. They have servers for several
platforms
> >(AIX, OS/2, NT...) and clients on several others, plus a Java client.
>
> Did I say anything about Lotus being tied to a monopoly?
Yes, you did. How do you manage to not even read your own quotes?
You said "Too bad its tied to the Monopoly via NT" "its" clearly meaning
Lotus in this context.
> >So you're suggesting that IBM, AOL, and Intuit are all anti-competitive
in
> >themselves. Who isn't anti-competitive?
>
> RedHat.
Interesting that quite a few people in Linux camps think RedHat is using
anti-competitive measures against the other distributions. RPM for
instance.
------------------------------
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