Linux-Advocacy Digest #363, Volume #31 Wed, 10 Jan 01 03:13:05 EST
Contents:
Re: kernel problems (TTK Ciar)
Re: you dumb. and lazy. ("Sphinx367")
Re: RPM Hell (BradyBear)
Re: KDE Hell (Donovan Rebbechi)
Re: RPM Hell (BradyBear)
Dumping Novell for Linux (almost).. ("ID")
Re: RPM Hell (BradyBear)
Re: RPM Hell (BradyBear)
Re: RPM Hell (BradyBear)
Re: RPM Hell (BradyBear)
Re: RPM Hell (BradyBear)
Re: Dumping Novell for Linux (almost).. ("Bobby D. Bryant")
Re: Dumping Novell for Linux (almost).. (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it does) )
(TTK Ciar)
Re: open source is getting worst with time. (Stuart Fox)
Re: Why does Win2k always fail in running time? (Stuart Fox)
Re: Microsoft releases Games console (Pete Goodwin)
Re: Why does Win2k always fail in running time? (Stuart Fox)
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Pete Goodwin)
Re: KDE Hell (Donn Miller)
Re: Linux *has* the EDGE! (Pete Goodwin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: TTK Ciar
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: kernel problems
Date: 10 Jan 2001 05:24:45 GMT
Once upon a time, "Kyle Jacobs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> said:
>
> Microsoft's support site is a thousands times better than anything the
> LDP could squeeze out of it's ass in a century.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Microsoft support costs
money, and a lot of it. If a Linux user wants to spend money on
support, they can buy it through RedHat or one of the other Linux
service companies.
The *free* support for Linux is much better than the *free*
support for Windows.
-- TTK
------------------------------
From: "Sphinx367" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: you dumb. and lazy.
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:47:49 GMT
I think he's got ya there, adam!! ;-) Oh, BTW, was that a 1996 Chevy Impala
or big-block 1966??? What's the engine size? Is it naturally aspirated, or
super/turbo-charged?
--
............................
Bryant Charleston
MIS
5/6 MCSE
Linux Enthusiast (newbie)
Black '88 Mustang 5.0
.........................
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:07:48 GMT, "adam"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >if you are THAT upset about driving stick shift don't drive a
sportscar...
> I drive a 1996 Chevy Impala SS fully modified putting out somewhere in
> the neighborhood of 400HP.
>
> Would you like to race sometime?
>
> I regularly eat for lunch yuppies driving Boxsters heading to the
> Hampton's to hob knob with the movie stars. It's actually quite funny
> watching them try and swear in German. I have to wonder how many of
> them are running Linux? But then again, the majority of them are
> investment bankers(if they are not movie stars) and in that world it
> is all Windows or real Unix. Linux need not apply.
>
> >stick around though, im sure a distro will come along in the future that
> >will suite your lazy needs. mandrake may not be the easiest for a
> >windows/mac monkey like yourself, but its a huge piece of cake compared
to
> >other distros..
>
> Unlike you, I prefer end results and not the method used to attain
> them. To use your automobile analogy, I am halfway down the 1/4 mile
> before the idiot in the Boxster has figured out where first gear is.
>
> It's all about ease of use and applications and Linux has neither.
>
>
>
> >you dumb!
>
>
>
>
> Flatfish
> Why do they call it a flatfish?
> Remove the ++++ to reply.
------------------------------
From: BradyBear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:48:48 GMT
On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:41:13 GMT, "kiwiunixman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>rpm -i --nodeps --replace *.rpm
>
>kiwiunixman
>
while using --nodeps may enable me to install the .rpm in question, it
probably isn't a good idea. The dependancies are there for a reason.
If I don't install them, at best the rpm I'm trying to install won't
work, and most probably I'll find that quite a few other things won't
work either. The point of my original post was simply that installing
updates via rpm is one big PIA.
But thanks for the input.
_
BradyBear
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
Date: 10 Jan 2001 06:48:59 GMT
On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:41:35 GMT, Kyle Jacobs wrote:
>I guess you haven't used FreeBSD then.
I've used OpenBSD.
>FreeBSD kicks Linux into it's deserved corner as a server through
>unification AND technology.
Explain how. (I'm waiting...)
>Firstly, FreeBSD isn't a terrible Hodge-podge of everyone's different
>library files (dll hell for Linux).
Fact: most of the libraries used on the BSD are the same as those used
on Linux. For example, the C++ library is the same. Other libraries
such as Qt, GTK, X11, etc are the same as their Linux counterparts.
You're simply wrong about this.
> FreeBSD has unifying library revisions,
What does "unifying library revisions" mean ?
>unifying dependencies, and the ports collection to dynamically locate,
>compile and INSTALL programs, their dependencies AND anything else required
>to run "it".
I've used ports, and it's pretty good. However, how does one upgrade the
ports ? I wanted to do this on OpenBSD and it appeared that it would
be quite difficult to do this (It would have required grabbing the
main CVS tree)
>There may not be a central admin system, but thanks to the uniformity of the
>platform,
Empty rhetoric. The problem is that there are still lots of third party
programs that are developed outside the scope of the OS.
> 3rd party programs that perform administrative tasks are POSSIBLE
>and WORK under FreeBSD, instead of having to deal with the massive array of
>text files, and VI... (Flashback circa 1989).
I haven't used FreeBSD, but OpenBSD certainly wasn't easier to configure than
Linux.
>FreeBSD's swap "chunk" is quite superior to Linux's swap system, providing
>efficiency in a component that is quite desperately required in a service
>situation.
How is it "superior" ? BTW, if your machines swapping heavily,
you probably need more memory.
--
Donovan Rebbechi * http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/ *
elflord at panix dot com
------------------------------
From: BradyBear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 06:59:46 GMT
On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 13:04:58 +0000, Richard Thrippleton
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>BradyBear wrote:
>
>> Well, I decided to give KDE 2.0.1 a shot. So I downloaded all the
>> relevent rpm,s. But before I can install my shiny new desktop, I need
>> to install the latest version of QT. So, I go grab QT2.2.3. Great. Got
>> the rpm, type rpm -i and I get failed dependancies... qt needs lib.so
>> this and that etc. So I do a search on rpmfind and find three packages
>> that I need. Package one needs me to upgrade rpm. So I go get the rpm
>> update. Package one now installs. Package two still needs another
>> lib.so.etc. Installing pakage three will break App A. So now I need
>> to upgrade App A and the whole damn thing starts over (more failed
>> dependencies, more broken app's) and the whole thing escalates
>> exponentially until I've basically had to update the whole damn OS.
>> The whole time I'm doing this, I keep thinking of the last line from
>> the movie "The Bridge over the River Kwie" ... Madness...Madness.
>> And it seems appropriate. Build a bridge so you can blow it up.
>> That's Linux
>
> That's not Linux, just one crappy utility. Perhaps your last line
>should have read "That's the Redhat Install Wizard".
Your right. I guess in my state of PWI I got the wrong point across.
> If you need a job doing properly, do it yourself, without depending on some hugely
>complicated program to do it all for you. I used to use something similar
>in the Debian package manager, but became hugely disgruntled after I
>discovered all the useless trash and unnecessary 'dependencies' it had
>installed. And after I once made the 'mistake' of trying to move a binary
>to somewhere I'd prefer to have it, the entire package manager broke, and
>spent ages complaining about broken packages every single time I wanted a
>new application. But now I've learnt my lesson; I stay in _control_, and
>install manually from source. It gives me optimised code, put exactly
>where I want it, without having to rely on some dumbed down
>'userfriendly' utility. It's a method that's definitely worth a try.
> Oh, and just out of interest, what did QT depend on? I've taken a
>look and all it seems to need are some standard X libraries, with the
>only slightly out of the ordinary dependency being the C++ library.
>
The dependancies were a result of trying to install QT via rpm. I
can't remember offhand what all of them were, but one of them was a
library included with the GLIDE package and several others.
If your doing your own compiling, then yes, all you'll need are
standard C and C++ development libraries.
_
BradyBear
------------------------------
From: "ID" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Dumping Novell for Linux (almost)..
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 14:59:02 +0800
Hello all,
with samba server how to map a drive letter automatically to win9x clients??
in novel/netware i would write a login script like:
"net use G: \\samba_server\samba_folder"
can this be done in samba server directly?? if so, i want to dump Novell
alltogether in favor of Linux.
i appreciate any help.
regards
ismet
------------------------------
From: BradyBear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:12:23 GMT
On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 01:03:42 GMT, J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>BradyBear wrote:
>
>> Well, I decided to give KDE 2.0.1 a shot. So I downloaded all the
>> relevent rpm,s. But before I can install my shiny new desktop, I need
>> to install the latest version of QT. So, I go grab QT2.2.3. Great.
>
>Not so great - you should have downloaded the qt rpms from
>the same location as your kde rpms, or you will have incompatible
>versions.
>
><long winded whining snipped>
>
>I've put kde 2 on several boxes, simply downloaded the
>rpms - all the rpms including qt - from ftp.kde.org, and
>simply did an an rpm -Uvvh - no problems noted.
>
>jjs
Well I'm glad that all went well for you.
What distro are you using? What kernel? Did you have the needed
libraries already on your system? Linux setups vary greatly, and as
such, one who assumes "it worked for me, so it should work for you" is
simply being short sited. If you read the requirements for KDE, 2.2.1
is cited as the minimum, 2.2.2 or 2.2.3 is recommended, which is why I
grabbed it.
_
BradyBear
------------------------------
From: BradyBear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:18:33 GMT
On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 02:01:43 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> J Sloan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>[snip]
>> I've put kde 2 on several boxes, simply downloaded the
>> rpms - all the rpms including qt - from ftp.kde.org, and
>> simply did an an rpm -Uvvh - no problems noted.
>
>Another Steve/Claire/whatever troll. The pseudonyms are too numerous to
>list anymore. What you're responding to didn't actually occur to the
>original poster; he/she just surfs for problems in other newsgroups and
>then adds a great deal of elaboration and posts here for the pleasure of
>seeing the responses.
>
>
>Sent via Deja.com
>http://www.deja.com/
Who is Steve/Claire/???
Who are you for that matter. What amazes me is all the Kooks like you
that will respond with paranoid conspiracy theories whenever someone
posts... well anything. The very fact that you can dream up such a
scenario as people reading groups so they can make up problems...
You Must Be A Republican.
FOAD
------------------------------
From: BradyBear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:20:06 GMT
On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 23:46:03 -0500, "Aaron R. Kulkis"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>BradyBear wrote:
>>
>> Well, I decided to give KDE 2.0.1 a shot. So I downloaded all the
>> relevent rpm,s. But before I can install my shiny new desktop, I need
>> to install the latest version of QT. So, I go grab QT2.2.3. Great. Got
>> the rpm, type rpm -i and I get failed dependancies... qt needs lib.so
>> this and that etc. So I do a search on rpmfind and find three packages
>> that I need. Package one needs me to upgrade rpm. So I go get the rpm
>> update. Package one now installs. Package two still needs another
>> lib.so.etc. Installing pakage three will break App A. So now I need
>> to upgrade App A and the whole damn thing starts over (more failed
>> dependencies, more broken app's) and the whole thing escalates
>> exponentially until I've basically had to update the whole damn OS.
>> The whole time I'm doing this, I keep thinking of the last line from
>> the movie "The Bridge over the River Kwie" ... Madness...Madness.
>> And it seems appropriate. Build a bridge so you can blow it up.
>> That's Linux
>
>When you're through lying, be sure to tell us, OK
Huh?
Another Kook.
_
BradyBear
------------------------------
From: BradyBear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:27:15 GMT
On 6 Jan 2001 07:30:57 GMT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Donovan Rebbechi)
wrote:
>On Fri, 05 Jan 2001 08:02:23 GMT, BradyBear wrote:
>
>Look, KDE is the f*cking GUI for god's sake. Do you upgrade the Windows
>GUI without an "operating system upgrade" ? The fact that Linux even gives
>you flexibility to upgrade the GUI while leaving the rest of the
>system untouched is a testimony to its power and flexibility.
>
>The fact that you're not bright enough to do it properly is not Linux's
>fault.
>
>Hint: download the src.rpm packages and rebuild on your system,
>or download packages that were built against your system. Duh!
It's not that I'm not bright enough, I'm just lazy. The whole point
that I was making is that one upgrade using rpm is one big PIA.
Also, why would I bother rebuilding an rpm for my system? If I'm going
to start compiling, I just use the tarball.
And why the comparison to the windows GUI? What does windows have to
do Linux?
_
BradyBear
------------------------------
From: BradyBear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: RPM Hell
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:39:22 GMT
On Sat, 06 Jan 2001 21:04:59 GMT, "Tom Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
>"Pete Goodwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
>news:LVB56.14577$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> > Another Steve/Claire/whatever troll. The pseudonyms are too numerous to
>> > list anymore. What you're responding to didn't actually occur to the
>> > original poster; he/she just surfs for problems in other newsgroups and
>> > then adds a great deal of elaboration and posts here for the pleasure of
>> > seeing the responses.
>>
>> So these are real problems then?
>
>Perhaps, but they certainly aren't Steve/Claire/Whomever's. No one person
>could be that inept and still exist outside of an outpatient program.
>
>These stories have been rehashed and embelished over time.
>
>Telling them is Steve/Clair/AliasOfTheWeek's hobby, I'm afraid....
>
>I view it as comic relief.
No, you view it as chance to spew more kookish vitriole. It really
pisses me off when some nut case like you dismisses a post without any
substantiation. Do you know how to read headers? Do you bother?
Do you have anything constructive to say? I've been using my alias for
five years, and the fact that you don't recognize it only shows how
green you are to usenet.
You are definitely A Republican.
FOAD
_
BradyBear
------------------------------
From: "Bobby D. Bryant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dumping Novell for Linux (almost)..
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 01:37:57 -0600
ID wrote:
> with samba server how to map a drive letter automatically to win9x clients??
You may get a good answer to your questions here. If not, you should try
comp.os.linux.networking. You may be able to find a Samba newsgroup as well.
Good luck,
Bobby Bryant
Austin, Texas
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Dumping Novell for Linux (almost)..
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:51:22 +0000
ID wrote:
> in novel/netware i would write a login script like:
>
> "net use G: \\samba_server\samba_folder"
Yep, works fine with Samba, provided you configure it to allow access to
the folder and user.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: TTK Ciar
Crossposted-To: alt.linux.sux,alt.microsoft.sucks,alt.linux.sucks,alt.linux.slakware
Subject: Re: Global Configuration tool (WAS: Re: linux does NOT suck (oh yes it
does) )
Date: 10 Jan 2001 06:51:54 GMT
>>: Yup. At least until it gets a Linuxal Basic that is better than Visual
>>: Basic.
>>
>>That's already happened.
>
>Just out of curiosity -- where?
KDEStudio's FormDeveloper is certainly as least as powerful and
easy to use as Visual BASIC.
There's also VDKBuilder:
http://vdkbuilder.sourceforge.net/
As far as actual bona-fide VB-alike-for-linux .. hmmm ..
Dunno if this is what the original poster was thinking about, but a
quick look on www.freshmeat.net yielded a few BASIC runtime environments
for Linux, one of which looks especially promising:
http://www.maxreason.com/software/xbasic/xbasic.html
It's even been ported to Windows, so MS-weenies can enjoy some of the
benefits of free software.
Alternatively, you can just use perl (or perl/tk, for the "visual"
thing), which is easier to learn than BASIC, and more powerful. Or
python/tk. Or tcl/tk. Or Java. Any of these can be used to do the
sorts of things Windows users use Visual BASIC for.
Hrm .. on a slight tangent, *how* much $$$ does it cost these days
to buy an ORB, a C compiler, a C++ compiler, a Pascal compiler, a JVM,
Prolog, a debugger, and an SQL database for Windows? I'm looking at
the FAQ-o-matic at http://linux.davecentral.com/ at all of the devel
language tools (compilers, interpreters, visual development environs,
et al) that come packaged with most Linux distributions, and it just
occurred to me that all those Windows users out there don't *get*
these things with their operating system. They have to *pay* if they
want to be able to write simple scripts for their computers. It blows
my mind.
-- TTK
------------------------------
From: Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: open source is getting worst with time.
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:43:32 GMT
In article <KMu66.56934$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Les Mikesell" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:93c8bi$af6$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Very easy.
> > > > >
> > > > > You can't install 99% of the Windows programs using a command
line
> > > > > because they require GDI interaction.
> > > > >
> > > > You can install just about all of the Microsoft apps/server apps
> > from
> > > > the command line with an answer or ini file. If other vendors
> > choose
> > > > not to make the command line option available, that's their
problem.
> > > > The mechanisms are there, just that many don't use them...
> > >
> > > Try installing a package via telnet this way some time and see
how it
> > > works to answer questions you can't see.
> >
> > Read the post again. You can install just about all the Microsoft
apps
> > from the command line, without requiring GUI input.
>
> Doesn't making an answer or ini file imply that you must already
> know the answers to all the possible questions? What if
> you don't?
>
Typically when installing one of the MS apps you do know all the
answers. If it turns out for some reason it doesn't work (eg running
out of hard disk space) it errors out without a gui window (since
you're running it in silent mode). Typically it'll log the
installation process somewhere, either a text file or the event log (or
both).
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why does Win2k always fail in running time?
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:41:23 GMT
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Charlie Ebert) wrote:
> In article <mMx66.543$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> Erik Funkenbusch wrote:
> >"Matt Soltysiak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:2Ww66.114530$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >>
> >> 1.)If I change an IP address in Win2k, order to join another
network in
> >> another city, Windows 2000, upon boot up, crashes and pops up a
nice blue
> >> screen with kernel and panic errors all over the place (you all
know what
> >> that is). Just to change the IP address!!! Now, I do this all
the time
> >> with Win 98 or Unix, and I never had problems like this.
> >
> >Win2k doesn't require you to reboot to change the IP. Of course, if
you'd
> >actually used Win2k, you'd know this.
> >
> >Strike 1
> >
>
> NO! It's not STRIKE 1 MORON. This is something Windows can't do.
> You don't strike a guy because your fukin operating system is a
> peice of shit. Sorry pal.
>
Crap. Windows NT has been able to change the IP address without
rebooting since about SP4. With Windows 2000 you can change any of the
IP parameters without rebooting. The only thing is that if you've got
anything like DNS or DHCP running you just need to stop and restart the
services.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Microsoft releases Games console
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:53:49 +0000
Nigel Feltham wrote:
> Also doesn't help that the linux machine being open based will eventually
> work
> with all TV sources (terrestrial, sat and cable) yet the MS device follows
> their
> crappy closed standards phillosophy and only works with their own
> Satellite transmissions.
TiVo here in the UK is supported by Sky Television; there's no alternative.
You can't run TiVo without a subscription to the channel information, only
available from Sky.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
From: Stuart Fox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Why does Win2k always fail in running time?
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 07:48:40 GMT
In article <2Ww66.114530$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"Matt Soltysiak" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here are some of the common failures:
>
> 1.)If I change an IP address in Win2k, order to join another network
in
> another city, Windows 2000, upon boot up, crashes and pops up a nice
blue
> screen with kernel and panic errors all over the place (you all know
what
> that is). Just to change the IP address!!! Now, I do this all the
time
> with Win 98 or Unix, and I never had problems like this.
You don't need to reboot to change the IP address. Typically you'll
have to restart services like DNS/WINS/DHCP. You may also need to
reregister the IP address in WINS (nbtstat -RR) (and possibly DNS if
you're using DDNS - ipconfig /registerdns).
What blue screen did you get out of interest?
>
> 2.) If I copy a few files, Windows 2000 will simply lock up and
nothing
> happens. At first, I thought it was just the slow byte-to-byte
algorithms
> MS uses, so I decide to wait a few minutes...but, alas, it locked up
cold,
> and I reboot.
Funny that noone else has reported this as a bug. Have you?
>
> 6.) Then there's some games I like to play (Unreal Tournament), and
windows
> 2000 locks up, as usual... Though it's a driver issue.
Unreal Tournament runs fine on my Compaq PC & also on my Dell PC under
Windows 2000 AS. (ATI Rage card, and whatever the Dell Optiplex has
built in). The graphics card on the Dell is shit though. Unreal
Tournament server runs fine on Windows 2000AS as well - ours has been
up for months now.
Sent via Deja.com
http://www.deja.com/
------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:02:43 +0000
Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> No, your absolutely correct.
>
> XFree86 & GNOME/KDE2 are slower than Windows 2000.
Well, I was referring to Windows 98 SE.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 03:03:44 -0500
From: Donn Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: KDE Hell
[removed alt.linux sux]
Donovan Rebbechi wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Jan 2001 04:41:35 GMT, Kyle Jacobs wrote:
> >Firstly, FreeBSD isn't a terrible Hodge-podge of everyone's different
> >library files (dll hell for Linux).
> Fact: most of the libraries used on the BSD are the same as those used
> on Linux. For example, the C++ library is the same. Other libraries
> such as Qt, GTK, X11, etc are the same as their Linux counterparts.
Ugh. I hate these FreeBSD -vs- Linux flamewars. I've been a steady
user of FreeBSD for years, and haven't used Linux as much as I have
FreeBSD. Still, I don't have the "holier than thou" attitude some of
these FreeBSD advocates are displaying.
I think that what he's trying to get is you've got the src code for all
the userland binaries & libraries + the kernel sitting in /usr/src,
whereas most Linux flavors just have the kernel src. The advantage here
is that you have all your libc + kernel code sitting under one tree, and
you can update both together in one fell swoop by doing
make world buildkernel installkernel
as opposed to most Linux flavors, in which you must track libc and the
kernel separately. As with ports, you update the userland+kernel in one
session by using cvsup (see below). But, this in no way means that one
is better than the other. Each has disadvantages where the other has
advantages, and vica versa.
Isn't it funny how all the Windows advocates always seem to prefer
FreeBSD over Linux? Probably because they perceive FreeBSD not to be as
big a threat to Windows, as FreeBSD isn't as widely used for desktop
usage as Linux.
> I've used ports, and it's pretty good. However, how does one upgrade the
> ports ? I wanted to do this on OpenBSD and it appeared that it would
> be quite difficult to do this (It would have required grabbing the
> main CVS tree)
On FreeBSD, you use a tool called cvsup. Don't know if you've heard of
it. I think it's a lot like rsync, but it may be more flexible.
Basically, it compares files on the client against those on the servers,
and compares the revision numbers in the headers of both. If the
version on the server is a higher rev. no. than that of the client, then
you see a message "add delta", which automatically applies a diff
(patch) to bring the rev. of that file up to the one on the server. If
the file on the client is missing or mangled in some way, then the file
on the client is replaced with the version on the server. So basically,
it's a src tree syncing tool. It's much better than CVS for keeping
files up to date, but it lacks the "commit" and other modes that CVS has
for committing new revisions of files to a CVS repository.
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------------------------------
From: Pete Goodwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Linux *has* the EDGE!
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 10 Jan 2001 08:06:33 +0000
no name wrote:
> >"Free Software" is hardly an edge. Sure, in terms of price, but in terms
> >of quality?
>
> All dogma aside, all partisanship aside, all bullshit aside, I tell
> you right now that QUALITY is the main reason I use free (or at least
> open-source) software for all of my personal and professional computing
> needs.
I've seen closed source rubbish and closed source quality; I've seen free
rubbish (and there's an awful lot more if it) and the occaisonal quality
free stuff.
Just because it's free doesn't make it quality.
> The best open-source applications are those which are developed by
> people who use those applications our their daily lives. We are faced
> with many common needs, and have implemented the apps to satisfy those
> needs. We also don't want bugs in the tools we use in work or play,
> so when a bug shows its ugly head we *fix* it (if not immediately,
> then after the six or eighth time it shows up, when it's starting to
> drive us utterly batty).
That's only as good and as quick as the person fixing it. If they don't or
they simply lose interest, then bang does that one.
> The result is functionality which is extremely relevant to the
> real-life uses of the application, and a high degree of stability.
In an ideal world, yes, but we live in the real world.
> Quality is most certainly part of the "Free Software Edge".
Not from what I've observed.
--
Pete, running KDE2 on Linux Mandrake 7.2
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