Linux-Advocacy Digest #234, Volume #35 Thu, 14 Jun 01 12:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Chad Myers")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (Thaddius
Maximus)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux (Thaddius
Maximus)
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" ("Daniel Johnson")
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? ("Donal K. Fellows")
*Newbie* Linux/Windows 98 Dual Boot (Big Daddy)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Dr S.J. Cornell)
COMMERCIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:- The World's Cheapest Sun Cobalt RaQ4 Servers are here in
Australia - au$99 / US$49 / GBP 35 - per month (Tim Rignold)
Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop (mike)
Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags ("JS \\ PL")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Thaddius Maximus)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Thaddius Maximus)
Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff? ("Donal K. Fellows")
Re: Linux dead on the desktop. ("JS \\ PL")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 09:15:22 -0500
"Edward Rosten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g84lp$imm$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >> I think that is a good thing. A single smoker can affect many
> >> nonsmokers around himself. it really is a very deply unpleasant thing
> >> to put up with if your not a smoker. Basically if you're sensitive to
> >> cigarette smoke you are completely prevented from going to places where
> >> people are free to smoke.
> >
> > Exactly. This goes back to my "your freedom prevents others' freedoms".
> > You can smoke all you want in your house or car, but don't stand right
> > outside my office building and breathe your smoke on everyone that
> > passes by. I have Asthma and it's a serious deal when I breathe smoke.
> > Perhaps I'll sue the tobacco companies and get $3 billion too =)
> > (j/k).
>
>
> I agree in this entirely. It is very unevnly weighted, one smoker can
> "suppress" many other people at the same time which is why I think that
> it should go in favour of the non smoker. I home that some time soom we
> get really strict non smoking laws in the UK soon. Unfortunately, I doubt
> this will be the case, but at least indoor public places are mainly non
> smoking.
>
>
>
> >> Ha ha! LOL! We always get packets full of "Sillica Gel Do Not Eat".
> >> Well, that's what I assume its called because that's always written on
> >> the packets :-)
> >
> > I have a saying... "If there's a sign warning against it, that means
> > someone actually tried it". Apparently, they had a problem with people
>
> I never thought of that, but I can see the logic.
>
> > eating Sillica Gel at one point. I also noticed the signs at the
> > airport
>
> The mind boggles. Why on earth would people think that random products
> came with a little bit of food for them to eat?
I think it has to do more with children. My son attempts to put everything
in his mouth. If I'm not careful to keep EVERYTHING out of his reach,
it goes directly in his mouth. Granted, he doesn't EAT everything,
but I could see how some children might actually think it's candy.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:29:14 -0500
"Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Stuart Fox wrote:
>
> > "Matthew Gardiner (BOFH)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:9g681i$71i$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> >
> >>Just to note, http://www.xtramsn.co.nz/ which is a joint venture between
> >>Xtra, New Zealands largest ISP and MSN, The site www.xtramsn.co.nz is
> >>running Netscape-Enterprise/3.6 SP3 on Solaris, this a company that is, in
> >>theory, meant to be the official New Zealand partner in e-commerce and
> >>internet inferstructure, yet the still retains a nice fleet of SUN
> >>
> > servers.
> >
> >>Reliable, flexible and ready to rumble, as in the words of the Microsoft
> >>"enterprise" ad on CNN.
> >>
> >
> > You don't perchance think that they just threw that page up on a server that
> > Xtra already had? Is that in the realms of possibility?
>
>
> They also could have setup a make-shift server running Windows 2000
> Server. One also must remember what they use as their internal servers
> vs. their relationship between EDS and Microsoft.
>
> Don't you also find it a bit of a coincidence that when Tranz Rail moved
> their sever farm from UNIX to NT, the number of accidents and deaths in
> the rail yards increase rapidly, even though the amount of haulage has
> stayed constant?
You reall stretch the limits of believability.
Care to produce any numbers backing up any of these rediculous claims
you make?
-c
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:31:39 +0100
Rotten168 wrote:
>
> The Ghost In The Machine wrote:
> >
> > In comp.os.linux.advocacy, chrisv
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote
> > on Wed, 13 Jun 2001 13:39:27 GMT
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > >drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >>Because there was no point?
> > >
> > >Jealousy is an ugly thing...
> > >
> >
> > No, I think he's right; I'm not sure there was any economic point
> > to continuing our manned moon program. It might have been good
> > for national pride, however -- and who knows what tech might
> > now be available had we done so. However, most of that tech apparently
> > could be developed right here on Earth (for example, closed-air
> > circulation systems would be just as useful on submarines),
> > and the only advantage of space appears to be growing purer
> > forms of various substances, such as medicinal drugs and
> > perhaps iron crystals, which don't require moon travel, merely
> > space (specifically, low-Earth-orbit) travel.
>
> The mission to the moon made no sense economically really. There are, I
> believe, huge amounts of iron and silicon on the moon, but I'm not too
> sure those are in short supply here. The entire core of the earth is
> iron after all.
>
Ahhhh... give it a rest, already. We went to the moon because it was
there! Mankind has wonderd about the moon for ages so it was only
natural that we went there once we had the technology to do so.
It was a milestone.
....
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:36:03 +0100
Mark wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Thaddius Maximus wrote:
> >drsquare wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 00:33:59 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> >> (GreyCloud <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> >>
> >> >drsquare wrote:
> >>
> >> >> >[4] First man on the moon.
> >> >>
> >> >> Wow, you spend billions of tax payers money on taking someone to a
> >> >> large piece of rock, acheiving what? Meanwhile, children are starving
> >> >> to death across the world...
> >> >
> >> >Now we are supposed to feed them too? Why don't the Dutch do it?
> >>
> >> Typical American attitude. Let the children starve to death whilst we
> >> send pieces of metal into space for fun.
> >
> >
> >Sheesh man, you Dutch have genocide going on in your neighbor's
> >backyard and you do nothing about it.
>
> Err, which neighbour?
>
You don't even know, do you? Very sad.
....
------------------------------
From: "Daniel Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:38:39 GMT
"Tim Adams" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> in article evMV6.79854$[EMAIL PROTECTED],
> Daniel Johnson at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 6/13/01 12:26
> PM:
[snip]
> >> but the original claim was 'using PDF's to create web pages, not
'having
> >> links to PDF files on a web page.
> >
> > It's the same thing.
> >
> >> Now show us a link to a PDF web page.
> >
> > Oh, if you insist:
> >
> >
http://developer.apple.com/techpubs/macosx/DeveloperTools/ProjectBuilder/Abo
> > utBox/AboutBox.pdf
> >
>
> Try again - that was a link to a pdf file for downloading NOT a link to a
> web page. There is a difference you know. Or do you know?
You seem to think that web pages are *not* downloaded. This is
not so. If your browser offers to save the file that link points to
when you click on it, it's because your browser does not have
Adobe's plugin installed.
If you do, you should be able to click on such links and
go to them in the usual fashion. They can contain links to
other pages, even.
> The page itself (not the downloaded file) was NOT created as a PDF file.
Sure it was. It's a PDF file whether you download it or not,
though obviously you can only view it if you do download it-
just like with HTML.
It's true that there are *other* pages on Apple's site
which are in HTML.
[snip]
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:39:14 +0100
Weevil wrote:
> Donal K. Fellows <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote
>> Question: why would you want to ask that question in the first place?
>> Counting the number of set bits in an array of unsigned longs seems a
>> fairly pointless task to me!
>
> Depends on the type of programming you do. If you were writing a chess
> program, for example, and you represented the board position with a variety
> of "bit boards," then you would certainly want to be able to quickly
> determine how many bits were set in the BlackPawn or WhiteBishop bit field.
Why? That seems a bizarre kind of application to me since surely you'd
want each (chess) location to state what piece if any is there? It makes
a bit of a difference if one of your pawns or the opponent's queen is in
a particular spot!
> If you were writing a program that simulated the propagation of email virii,
> wherein each bit in an array of millions indicated whether that simulated
> user was infected, you would surely want to be able to quickly count the
> number of infections many times during the course of the simulation.
But you could easily keep that info as a separate counter. And that would
be much faster still unless you're going to argue that you can count the
number of bits in, say, 2**15 longs faster than you can read a single long?
> Couting the set bits in a bitfield is an important enough operation, in
> certain types of applications, that some machines have a single instruction
> that does just that. Another "bit" operation that seems useless at first
> glance is determining the index of the first set bit in a word, yet the Cray
> architecture provides an instruction that does the trick.
OK, name me one use for these operations where there is not an alternative
way of doing it that is not superior. It cannot be quicker to recompute
the number of set bits each time you want that number if you can instead
cache the value from the previous time you discovered the info. (Anything
that changes the number of set bits would also update the cache, and if you
have multiple processors stomping all over the array independent of each
other without locks, then counting the number of bits is unsafe anyway!)
> But for large simulations, for virtually any graphic operation, for all
> sorts of games, for almost any program where speed is a high priority, bit
> manipulation (including counting 1s and 0s) is absolutely necessary.
I've never seen anywhere that needed it, and I've been programming for
years in many different languages. It feels to me like an operation in
search of an application, and that's never a good sign. All of which
makes me suspect that many C and C++ programmers are nothing like as good
as they would have everyone believe...
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Actually, come to think of it, I don't think your opponent, your audience,
or the metropolitan Tokyo area would be in much better shape.
-- Jeff Huo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: Big Daddy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: *Newbie* Linux/Windows 98 Dual Boot
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 15:47:31 GMT
Is their any performance loss or interference from a dual boot system.
Do the 2 partitions work together well?
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dr S.J. Cornell)
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: 14 Jun 2001 16:48:09 +0100
> > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:02:19 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > (Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > >If that's all you can believe or imagine, I'm sorry. Besides, what has
> > >your little has-been country done to help "the starving children"?
> >
> drsquare wrote:
> > Quite a lot compared to how "poor" we are compared to the US.
>
Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Jack shit compared to what we did.
Time to inject some facts, from
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/indexfld.html
Different statistics come from different years, but I think the results
are sufficiently marked to be robust.
United Kingdom:
===============
Ecomomic aid: ODA, $3.4 billion (1997)
Population: 59,511,464 (July 2000 est.)
GDP: purchasing power parity - $1.29 trillion (1999 est.)
Overseas aid per capita: $57
Fraction of GDP spent on overseas aid: 0.26%
USA:
----
Economic aid: ODA, $6.9 billion (1997)
Population: 275,562,673 (July 2000 est.)
GDP: purchasing power parity - $9.255 trillion (1999 est.)
Overseas aid per capita: $25
Fraction of GDP spent on overseas aid: 0.07%
Incidentally, Britain is as far behind France and Germany as the US is behind
Britain.
--
Stephen Cornell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax +44-1223-336644
University of Cambridge, Zoology Department, Downing Street, CAMBRIDGE CB2 3EJ
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Tim Rignold)
Subject: COMMERCIAL ANNOUNCEMENT:- The World's Cheapest Sun Cobalt RaQ4 Servers are
here in Australia - au$99 / US$49 / GBP 35 - per month
Date: 14 Jun 2001 08:49:45 -0700
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Dedicated Servers Australia
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mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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A WEBHOST COMPANY - PROUDLY 100% AUSTRALIAN OWNED
------------------------------
From: mike <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: soc.men,soc.singles,alt.fan.rush-limbaugh
Subject: Re: Why Linux Is no threat to Windows domination of the desktop
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:55:15 -0700
SSunbird <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>"." wrote:
>
>> I am a polygamous heterosexual, and I have at least 20 friends who are also,
>> and over 200 aquaintances who are the same. All in the same city.
>
>> Actual real world experience once again completely nullifies your white trash,
>> inbred, backwoods, hick retardation.
>
>> With a gun.
>
>> -----.
>
>huh. five letters. i wonder.
I'm guessing frans.
Mike
------------------------------
From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Microsft IE6 smart tags
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 11:56:42 -0400
"T. Max Devlin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> Proving something is not true isn't really any harder than proving it is
> true. It's just changing someone's mind with facts that is impossible.
It's a lot harder. Proving a negative is nigh-on impossible.
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:53:02 +0100
"Dr S.J. Cornell" wrote:
>
> > > On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 00:02:19 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > (Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > > >If that's all you can believe or imagine, I'm sorry. Besides, what has
> > > >your little has-been country done to help "the starving children"?
> > >
> > drsquare wrote:
> > > Quite a lot compared to how "poor" we are compared to the US.
> >
> Rotten168 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > Jack shit compared to what we did.
>
> Time to inject some facts, from
> http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/indexfld.html
>
> Different statistics come from different years, but I think the results
> are sufficiently marked to be robust.
>
> United Kingdom:
> ---------------
> Ecomomic aid: ODA, $3.4 billion (1997)
> Population: 59,511,464 (July 2000 est.)
> GDP: purchasing power parity - $1.29 trillion (1999 est.)
>
> Overseas aid per capita: $57
> Fraction of GDP spent on overseas aid: 0.26%
>
> USA:
> ----
> Economic aid: ODA, $6.9 billion (1997)
This figure is flat-out wrong. The USA foreign aid is 14.1 billion USD.
> Population: 275,562,673 (July 2000 est.)
> GDP: purchasing power parity - $9.255 trillion (1999 est.)
>
> Overseas aid per capita: $25
> Fraction of GDP spent on overseas aid: 0.07%
>
> Incidentally, Britain is as far behind France and Germany as the US is behind
> Britain.
> --
> Stephen Cornell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax +44-1223-336644
> University of Cambridge, Zoology Department, Downing Street, CAMBRIDGE CB2 3EJ
------------------------------
From: Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:56:38 +0100
Burkhard Wölfel wrote:
>
> Rotten168 wrote:
> >
> > "T. Max Devlin" wrote:
> > >
> > > Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sun, 10 Jun 2001 14:17:23
> > > >On Sun, 10 Jun 2001 06:11:22 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > > (T. Max Devlin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > > >>Said drsquare in alt.destroy.microsoft on Sat, 09 Jun 2001 21:02:10
> > > >>>On Sat, 09 Jun 2001 17:34:24 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > >
> > > >>>>AFAIK, you are the only one to mention saluting anything.
> > > >>>
> > > >>>You knew what he meant.
> > > >>
> > > >>Yes, I did. Did you know what I meant? That seems more doubtful.
> > > >
> > > >Not if you continue to word things so badly.
> > >
> > > I'm sorry if you're insulted, but I have to point out that the problem
> > > is on your end. You are confused and muddle-headed. That is not my
> > > fault. It is, however, my problem, and I will try to help. Ask
> > > questions, and stop avoiding logical fallacies.
> > >
> > > Here, this might help: http://www.intrepidsoftware.com/fallacy/toc.htm
> > >
> > > [...]
> > > >In Holland they get personal freedom. Unlike the US.
> > >
> > > Please explain.
> >
> > Drugs, alcohol, sex; things are MUCH more libertarian (freedom) in
> > Denmark than in the US. It's all about personal responsibility.
>
> I agree. The Netherlands are very progressive. Very positive and
> optimistic too, as far as I know some.
>
And their *lowest* income tax rate is 38% !!! Yikes !!!
....
------------------------------
From: "Donal K. Fellows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: What language are use to program Linux stuff?
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 16:46:50 +0100
mlw wrote:
> [C] is very easy to learn.
For suitable definitions of learn. It's easy to learn the basics. The
nasty little gotchas can catch you out for years, especially if you never
use more than one architecture.
> It is very easy to write robust programs.
It is? *IN C, OF ALL LANGUAGES?!?* Then why didn't the authors of such
gems as sendmail and cron get it right first time?
You remind me of a court case which came up a number of years ago where
a financial institution's chief programmer claimed that writing all their
mainframe financial software in assembly enhanced the code since any
mistake would cause the program to ABEND. Apparently.
> The issue is you have to learn how.
I'm glad I've not hired you as a programmer. You've more ego than ability.
Donal.
--
Donal K. Fellows http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~fellowsd/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Actually, come to think of it, I don't think your opponent, your audience,
or the metropolitan Tokyo area would be in much better shape.
-- Jeff Huo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
------------------------------
From: "JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux dead on the desktop.
Date: Thu, 14 Jun 2001 12:05:32 -0400
"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 23:17:21 -0400, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ("JS \\ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
>
> >"drsquare" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> >> >While your at it, lets see how small the HD is. You claim it's 1gb
which
> >> >doesn't jive with system sold during the 200mhz era.
> >> >right click on your c: in explorer, hit alt-print screen paste into
> >> >paint.....
> >>
> >> OK, I admit I lied. It's 1.26GB. Are you happy now?
> >
> >I knew you were lying. But I also know your still lying. That's pretty
sad.
> >Saying you have a SMALLER system than you actually have. Pathetic.
>
> You'd prefer it if I said I had a BIGGER system than I actually had?
> Wouldn't that be even MORE pathetic?
I'd prefer that you didn't lie. Now go to your room.
------------------------------
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