Linux-Advocacy Digest #263, Volume #35 Fri, 15 Jun 01 12:13:04 EDT
Contents:
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: More micro$oft "customer service" (Sandman)
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... ("Chad Myers")
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (Stephen Cornell)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...) ("Chad
Myers")
Re: Windows makes good coasters
Re: Redhat video problems. (flatfish+++)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...) ("Chad Myers")
Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!) (chrisv)
Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed ("Jon Johansan")
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:41:34 -0500
"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Edward Rosten wrote:
> >
> > >> I have a growing suspicion that you don't know what the word "liberal"
> > >> means.
> > >
> > > I have a growing suspicion that you don't know who liberals are.
> >
> > You have absoloutely no idea what liberals are about. You seem to think
> > it is some passive middleground adopted by people who have no forceful
> > opinions. You are completely wrong.
> >
> > -Ed
>
> I think that the simple fact of the matter is that there are many
> contradictory definitions of 'liberal' and they are all right.
>
> Conservatives use the word 'liberal' to refer to lefties here in
> America. I'm not sure how or why that started but it stuck. I think that
> the early liberals where romantic, emotional, dramatic... and despised
> by the federalist conservatives (Jefferson was an early liberal). I
> suppose that may be why, considering the philistine nature of
> contemporary conservatives.
Actually, it's not just conservatives who use that term. It's a general
American term for "lefties". I've heard Democrats, Republicans,
conservatives and liberals alike use the term. Yes, hard-core liberals
refer to themselves as liberals.
> It's fair to say that the textbook definition of liberal is more akin to
> a libertarian in the contemporary world... people who believe in as
> little government intervention as humanly possible. There was a famous
> article by a libertarian which was entitled "Why I am not a
> conservative"... he objected to the term 'conservative' because he
> wanted things to change.
>
> Just another USENET battle over semantics.
Exactly. I think to sum it up, Liberals are for more government to
protect personal freedoms, whereas conservatives are for change --
less government involvement in our lives.
It's kind of backwards, but their end goals are true to their names.
And both are filled with hypocrasy =)
-c
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:42:13 -0500
I so LOVE it when someone claims to have killfiled (or better yet, actually
done it) - it is the ultimate proof that that person is not willing to
consider anything but what they believe is true - very blind indeed...
"Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Quote from the article at Wininformant:
>
> Linux, "....which has thus far gained success and prominence without
> having to fend off any actual competition."
>
> This is rich. It really is. If this is the intellectual level of our
> competition, then I am sadly disappointed in the human race. I thought
> Jan J. was an exception to the rule. Tell me people, are NT advocates
> *really* all stupid?!
>
> Sorry for messing up the thread though, as I have Jan still killfiled,
> I'm now replying to Bobby.
>
> Mart
>
>
> --
> Playing for the high one, dancing with the devil,
> Going with the flow, it's all the same to me,
> Seven or Eleven, snake eyes watching you,
> Double up or quit, double stake or split, The Ace Of Spades
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:43:38 -0500
"Thaddius Maximus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> "Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
> >
> > "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > Thaddius Maximus wrote:
> > > >
> > > > drsquare wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:38:54 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > > > ("Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > >
> > > > > >> Well, let me throw this one at you, how do you feel about the fact
> > that
> > > > > >> here in America, somebody under 21 can buy a gun and serve his
> > country,
> > > > > >> but he/she can't even walk into a friggin' bar and order a beer?
> > Where's
> > > > > >> the American freedom there?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >It is preposterous, and such laws are a result
> > > > > >of the liberal mindset.
> > > > >
> > > > > Liberal mindset? How are such draconian laws liberal?
> > > > >
> > > > > >That law was as recent
> > > > > >as the 70's, IIRC. The reason why laws like
> > > > > >that one get put into place is because of
> > > > > >a lack of patriotism, and pride. People just
> > > > > >apathetically allow these idiotic politicians
> > > > > >to do their own bidding, without saying a damn
> > > > > >word.
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, that's democracy for you. If I was the absolute dictator of the
> > > > > world, such things would never happen.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > For the last time - the USA is NOT a democracy and has never been a
> > > > democracy. The USA is a republic!
> > >
> > > *sigh* I swear to God I've had to pull out Webster's every damn time I
> > > get involved in a flame war on USENET.
> > >
> > > Ahem.
> > >
> > > democracy n. 1. government by the people, either directly or through
> > > representatives
> > >
> > > republic n. a state or government in which the supreme power rests in
> > > all the citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives
> > > elected by them
> > >
> > > I'd say either or both would apply.
> >
> > I agree. I think it would be more accurate
> > to say that it is a republic, that has a
> > democratic election and legislation process.
>
>
> None of you get it! Do you??? It doesn't matter what you
> think or believe, the FACT is the USA is a Republic. You
> cannot change this!
>
> Please take the opportunity to educate yourselves:
>
> http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm
> http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2000/tst121200.htm
Ask 10 people what the word Republic means, and you'll get
varrying answers.
IIRC, Jefferson referred to America's style of government
as "Representative Democracy". If you wish to argue with
him, feel free.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:45:02 -0500
"Craig Kelley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> (And then they expect us to fall over wounded because some lame
> I'm-going-out-of-buisiness Windows magazine is doing a publicity stunt
> for some sustainted advertising dollars)
That's rich. Oh, that's precious. A linvocate trying to talk about
"going-out-of-business" and trying to make some dollars? given the
"performance" of EVERY single "linux" related company you can think of - I
find that laughable.
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:46:04 -0500
"Stuart Fox" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9g8gif$2n30$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Jon Johansan wrote:
> >
> > [big snip]
> >
> > One thing I noticed about our colo facility was that we have 12 rack
mount
> > Linux boxes. Every last one shipped with Windows 95 installed on it.The
> vendor
> > wanted more to ship it with Linux than with obsolite versions of Windows
> 95.
>
> Which vendor ships rack mount Windows 95 boxes? This seems a little
> optimistic?
You believed him?
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:46:05 -0500
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b28bc5f$0$94314$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > Stuart Fox wrote:
> > >
> > > "mlw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Jon Johansan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > [big snip]
> > > >
> > > > One thing I noticed about our colo facility was that we have 12 rack
mount
> > > > Linux boxes. Every last one shipped with Windows 95 installed on
it.The
> > > vendor
> > > > wanted more to ship it with Linux than with obsolite versions of
Windows
> > > 95.
> > >
> > > Which vendor ships rack mount Windows 95 boxes? This seems a little
> > > optimistic?
> > They had obsolete Windows licenses, but wanted more money to install
Linux on
> > it. We decided to let them put Windows 95 on it, so they could test it
or what
> > ever, and we would put Linux on it.
>
> But you said they were rack-mount boxes. Which company is selling rack
mount
> boxes that gives you a choice of Win95 or Linux as the OS?
I was more suprised that someone believed him enough to reply at all?
------------------------------
From: Sandman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.sys.mac.advocacy
Subject: Re: More micro$oft "customer service"
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 17:45:59 +0200
In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Macman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Do you think it is an option you have to turn ON or turn OFF? :) If it
> > is, indeed, an option you can turn ON, you as a user, have the "right"
> > to want to turn it on and it is fine. However, if it is an option ON
> > from the beginning, MS has choosen the default behaviour of the
> > browser and only the minority will turn it off, or even will know how.
> > :)
>
> There's another issue, though.
>
> Even if it's off by default and the user can turn it on, there's still
> the potential for vast abuse by Microsoft -- since they are the ones who
> set the default smart tags. To me, that's a much larger issue than
> whether it's on or off.
But then, wouldn't it be like Netscape's "What's related"? Netscape
controls what does and doesn't show up in that popup. they keep it away
from the webpage though, but the idea is similar...
As long as Smart Tages is off by default, I suppose it's just an extra
feature for those who want to use it. If it's on by default, it's badly
implemented and morally bad form from MS.
--
Sandman[.net]
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:47:44 -0500
"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
> >
> > "Mart van de Wege" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > In article <3b28ba64$0$94309$[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Chad Myers"
> > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > >> Chad Myers wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > >> > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > <snip>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Drugs, alcohol, sex; things are MUCH more libertarian (freedom) in
> > > >> > > Denmark than in the US. It's all about personal responsibility.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > And pedophilia.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > -c
> > > >>
> > > >> You say something like pedophilia and say nothing to back it up?
> > > >
> > > > I'm sorry, I'm talking about Holland, not Denmark. I missed the Denmark
> > > > part, I though you were still talking about Holland.
> > > >
> > > > I think I need some more coffee...
> > > >
> > > > -c
> > > >
> > > >
> > > Well if you define an age of consent of 16 as pedophilia you are
> > > absolutely right. Otherwise you are dead wrong.
> > >
> > > Hope this helps,
> >
> > You mean all those kiddie pictures that the FBI keep tracking
> > and busting perverts in America for really AREN'T coming from
> > Holland? You, sir, are dead wrong. There is a thriving
> > pedophilia pornography industry in Amsterdam.
> >
> > -c
>
> This is a place that's extremely dangerous to go... but... I think that
> you're talking about statutory rape which is different than pedophilia.
No, I'm talking about pictures of 12 year old girls (according to the
article I read) being distributed to persons in America. The FBI
has active investigations going on to kiddie porn rings with the
material originating in Holland.
I wasn't aware this wasn't common knowledge. I've heard reports of
this in the major media on several occasions. I've seen Dateline
specials on it. This is nothing new.
-c
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:48:02 -0500
"Paolo Ciambotti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Dave Martel"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On 12 Jun 2001 11:48:13 -0500, "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Yes, I know the study was partially sponsored by MS (someone has to pay
> >>for these things) so please don't fire off stupid replies implying that
> >>MS purposely contaminated it's own results by 'buying the study' -
> >>that's just preposterous.
> >
> > Not at all preposterous, given their past history of sponsoring "flawed"
> > studies.
>
> "Hello, Gartner? Yeah, Miller from Microsoft again. Look, we'd like you
> to do another independent study for us. You know, call up a bunch of
> system administrators and ask them if they've bought any Linux servers in
> the last year. Oh, no, not at all, we'll be more than happy to provide
> you with a cold-call list. Just don't tell anybody we culled it from our
> MSVP and MCSE mailings. Good enough. Pleasure talking to you again."
"Hello Netcraft? Yea, Linus here. Look, can we jigger those figures again.
You know, publish some really high numbers for Apache, low ones for IIS,
jigger then around a little up and down and since there is no independent
verification and no one else is even trying I'm sure no one will mind. Of
course I won't be paying you anything, I don't have any money, but I can
guarentee you'll get mentioned on Slashdot again this month. Great ... and,
please, wear that aftershave I sent you, it really turns me on."
sheesh...
------------------------------
From: Stephen Cornell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance...
Date: 15 Jun 2001 16:49:48 +0100
Thaddius Maximus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Scroll down to: "In Recent Years"
>
>
> http://www.probe.org/docs/c-foreign2.html
>
> For some strange reason they list the billions in terms of millions
> ie, $14,896 million:
> http://www.aerotechnews.com/starc/2000/102700/Foreign_Aid.html
Thanks for the references, Bigus, though without similar figures for
the UK they only tell half of the story for the purposes of this
discussion. In any case, we have from
http://www.encyclopedia.com/printablenew/04603.html
"In 1998, U.S. foreign aid amounted to $14.1 billion (less than 1% of
the federal budget); the share of the gross domestic product (GDP) for
foreign aid dropped from 2.75% in 1949 to 0.12% in 1998."
Meanwhile, from
http://www.bond.org.uk/news/april2001/fouryears.html
" Nonetheless, the UK remains a long way from meeting the
international target that aid should be 0.7 per cent of GNP. This
share had been over 0.3 in the early nineties, but was 0.26 in 1997
and fell to only 0.23 in 1999. It is set to rise to 0.30 per cent
during 2001."
So, it does indeed look as though the USA is giving much less aid, as
a fraction of its GDP - just as I said. Moreover, if you do the sums
you will find that it lags behind the UK in terms of aid per capita,
too.
--
Stephen Cornell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel/fax +44-1223-336644
University of Cambridge, Zoology Department, Downing Street, CAMBRIDGE CB2 3EJ
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:52:04 -0500
"JS \ PL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> I wasn't aware that netcraft was counting physical servers. When did that
> start happening?
> The way they count has nothing to do with server market share.
> No more than counting houses shows the amount of cities.
Netcraft has never claimed nor is it even capable (or anyone for that
matter) of counting physical servers.
So, a mom&pop ISP running a single BSD box using Apache with 2000 virtual
hosts (those little 5 meg sites that joes diner and franks car repair puts
up their one or two pages created in dreamweaver or frontpage) will count as
2000 and the four W2K boxes using IIS and SQL server to host an entire 2000
page e-commerce site including secure server and on-line CC and check
processing counts as only 1.
THAT is why Netcraft counts are pretty much useless.
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:52:16 -0500
"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> Chad Myers wrote:
>
> >
> >"Nick Condon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> >> Yeah, when Americans say "liberal" they mean something like
> >> "socialist". They can't say "socialist" because they've already warped
> >> that to mean "communist", which of course has been twisted to mean
> >> "unamerican".
> >>
> >> Unfortunately, it leaves no word for them to describe what we would
> >> call liberals. Libertarians are almost there, but have some illiberal
> >> kinks.
> >
> >What? Libertarians are as far from liberals/communists as you can get.
>
> I'm really at loss how to respond to this post. My first thought was it was
> joke, and I laughed. Then I saw it was Chad and we all know that level of
> subtlety is well beyond him. Then I tried to frame a careful and
> thoughtful response, but only got about halfway through it before I thought
> "Fuck it - just ploink him", but if I did that I'd miss out his other
> entertaining comments. What a dilemma.
>
> So what do you all think? How should I reply to him?
Ok, first, you're from the UK, so your definition of Libertarian may
be different. In the US, Libertarians are gun-toting veterans who
believe that the government is way too intrusive and that social
programs like Welfare and Social Security are destroying the moral
fabric of America.
Whereas, Liberals believe that we should have more government programs
to protect everything from wildlife, to the poor, to the sick. They
believe in national healthcare, national retirement programs (SS),
more Welfare, etc.
I don't know how the two could be farther apart.
-c
P.S.- BTW, you don't have to be a rude pompus jerk, you know.
------------------------------
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ()
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Windows makes good coasters
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:52:56 GMT
On Fri, 15 Jun 2001 05:13:28 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 19:56:29 GMT, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ()) wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 20:55:26 +0100, drsquare <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>>>>>>Otherwise you should get a modem where the designers aren't in bed with
>>>>>>microsoft.
>>>>>
>>>>>Which is yet more money.
>>>>
>>>>Some of us have the means to acquire $30.
>>>
>>>And some of us have better things to spend £30 on than things that
>>>shouldn't have to be done in the first place.
>>
>>and would rather whine and bitch, valueing one's time at $2/hr.
>
>What the hell are you talking about?
whining and bitching and struggling for 16 hours vs. plopping $30 down
for a real modem. (albeit a used 56K modem)
------------------------------
From: flatfish+++ <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Redhat video problems.
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:54:35 GMT
On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 22:51:51 +0000, "Gary Hallock"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "flatfish+++"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 18:45:05 +0200, "Mart van de Wege"
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>>www.linux-laptops.net
>>
>>
>> Something wrong with that link at least at the moment?
>
>Skip the "s". It should be:
>
>http://www.linux-laptop.net
>
>Gary
Got it thanks.
flatfish+++
"Why do they call it a flatfish?"
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:55:02 -0500
"Ayende Rahien" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:9garkb$ne0$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Bob Hauck" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > On Thu, 14 Jun 2001 08:28:00 -0500, Chad Myers
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Since when has accuracy or truth mattered to Netcraft?
> >
> > Since when have they mattered to you?
>
> Since when have they mattered to anyone on this groups?
Matters to me. I was under the impression it mattered to you Ayende. Isn't
that why we post here?
------------------------------
From: "Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: OT: Where is American pride?... (was Re: European arrogance and
ignorance...)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 10:56:20 -0500
"Chad Myers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:3b2a2d2a$0$94313$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Thaddius Maximus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > "Stephen S. Edwards II" wrote:
> > >
> > > "Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > > > Thaddius Maximus wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > drsquare wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 12 Jun 2001 23:38:54 -0700, in comp.os.linux.advocacy,
> > > > > > ("Stephen S. Edwards II" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >"Rotten168" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Well, let me throw this one at you, how do you feel about the
fact
> > > that
> > > > > > >> here in America, somebody under 21 can buy a gun and serve his
> > > country,
> > > > > > >> but he/she can't even walk into a friggin' bar and order a beer?
> > > Where's
> > > > > > >> the American freedom there?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >It is preposterous, and such laws are a result
> > > > > > >of the liberal mindset.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Liberal mindset? How are such draconian laws liberal?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >That law was as recent
> > > > > > >as the 70's, IIRC. The reason why laws like
> > > > > > >that one get put into place is because of
> > > > > > >a lack of patriotism, and pride. People just
> > > > > > >apathetically allow these idiotic politicians
> > > > > > >to do their own bidding, without saying a damn
> > > > > > >word.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well, that's democracy for you. If I was the absolute dictator of
the
> > > > > > world, such things would never happen.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For the last time - the USA is NOT a democracy and has never been a
> > > > > democracy. The USA is a republic!
> > > >
> > > > *sigh* I swear to God I've had to pull out Webster's every damn time I
> > > > get involved in a flame war on USENET.
> > > >
> > > > Ahem.
> > > >
> > > > democracy n. 1. government by the people, either directly or through
> > > > representatives
> > > >
> > > > republic n. a state or government in which the supreme power rests in
> > > > all the citizens entitled to vote and is exercised by representatives
> > > > elected by them
> > > >
> > > > I'd say either or both would apply.
> > >
> > > I agree. I think it would be more accurate
> > > to say that it is a republic, that has a
> > > democratic election and legislation process.
> >
> >
> > None of you get it! Do you??? It doesn't matter what you
> > think or believe, the FACT is the USA is a Republic. You
> > cannot change this!
> >
> > Please take the opportunity to educate yourselves:
> >
> > http://www.chrononhotonthologos.com/lawnotes/repvsdem.htm
> > http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2000/tst121200.htm
>
> Ask 10 people what the word Republic means, and you'll get
> varrying answers.
>
> IIRC, Jefferson referred to America's style of government
> as "Representative Democracy". If you wish to argue with
> him, feel free.
>
> -c
One more thing, many states have Democratic-type election
processes for electing officials. This is the "Democracy"
part of Representative Democracy. We elect our officials
Democratically, but we don't vote on every single little
law or act. However, many states do have a Proposition
framework which is, in essence, Democracy. The people
themselves can vote on invidual laws and acts for the
state, rather than having representatives do it.
-c
------------------------------
From: chrisv <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To:
alt.destroy.microsoft,comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy,comp.os.ms-windows.advocacy
Subject: Re: European arrogance and ignorance... (was Re: Just when Linux starts
getting good, Microsoft buries it in the dust!)
Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2001 15:56:40 GMT
"David Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>The truth is that the US *had* to enter the war in Europe, for a number of
>reasons.
Yes, we *had* to. England *had* to, also. Some would say that not
going to war have you "have" to is the right thing to do. (Note, I
don't want to get into a detailed debate on whether the US waited too
lang or whatever. I think this discussion has went far enough
already.)
------------------------------
From: "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Crossposted-To: comp.os.ms-windows.nt.advocacy
Subject: Re: Linux penetration MUCH lower than previously claimed
Date: 15 Jun 2001 10:57:01 -0500
"Mike" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
news:sdKV6.29233$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
>
> "Jon Johansan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message
> news:3b26471a$0$263$[EMAIL PROTECTED]...
> > http://www.wininformant.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=21403
> > or
> > http://www.zdnet.com/eweek/stories/general/0,11011,2772060,00.html
>
> ...
>
> > Yes, I know the study was partially sponsored by MS (someone has to pay
> for
> > these things) so please don't fire off stupid replies implying that MS
> > purposely contaminated it's own results by 'buying the study' - that's
> just
> > preposterous. Consider when car companies pay someone like JD Powers to
> > guage customer satisfaction - the company that paid for the survey does
> NOT
> > always come out on top and that's why people trust JD Powers. Same for
> both
> > IDC and Gartner. They are paid by _someone_ to find something out. If
the
> > results don't go your way then, sure, it's ok for you to not publish
them
> > (Ford pays JD Powers to find out if people like the Explorer and it
turns
> > out they don't - no need to buy Superbowl time to advertise that - but
if
> > they did like it, of course you advertise it - it's normal and is done
all
> > the time). So, ahead of time, ANYONE who says "MS paid for it therefore
> they
> > said whatever MS told them to" is automatically defined as an idiot and
> > mindless so don't fall into that hole oK?
>
> And, JD Powers is more than willing to bias their survey to achieve the
> desired result.
What?! You believe that? On what basis? One year they pick Ford and the next
they pick GM - and you think that Ford would let GM "outbid" them for this
sort of thing? I'm sorry but I simply do not believe this to be true.
------------------------------
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