> > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:55:40 EDT > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [FLEAA] afstrinity > To: listserv@floridaeaa.org > Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Mike, > If you check out the website, the cost differential listed by the > manufacturer is just over $8,000 for the whole system. The batteries are > not selling > for $20,000. True, it would cost about that for a traction pack suitable > for > an all electric EV. But prices are coming down. There is a guy by the > name > of Zack Radding who is building a kit lamborghini who lists the cost of 23 > kWh worth of thundersky lithium phosphate batteries at $15,000. A rep > that I > talked to at GAIA was telling me that their pricing goal is $0.75 per Wh > by > the end of this year. Also, most manufacturers are advertising cycle > lives > between 1500 and 2000, even 20,000!? for altair nano. Advertised cycle > life > even for good lead acid cells is only 400. Maybe the batteries in the > computers > don't last long, but that is no longer a fair comparison. The batteries > now > marketed for traction packs are different animals. Even so, how many > cycles > did you put the computer batteries through during those two years? > I'm not trying to light you up or anything, I just have to respectfully > disagree that lithium batteries are a problem. The only problem is the > up-front > costs. In the long run, even if they fall short of published specs to the > same degree as lead acid batteries can, they are still cost effective. > On the subject of the hybrid at hand, Cool! I think George and I were > talking briefly at the last meeting about the subject of using ultracaps in > an EV > drivetrain. My thought was to simply wire them in parallel with the > battery > pack and use them to compensate for voltage sag on acceleration and soak > up > current during regeneration. This would spare the batteries wear and tear > and > reduce peukert related losses. He was talking about using the ultracaps > as > a separately controlled power source. This would be more complicated, but > would spare the batteries more effectively in the same way and extend > range > more than my idea. AFIK, they will be putting a cap pack into the Jetta > we tore > apart yesterday. I also mentioned the possibility of using my EV as a > test > mule for development as it runs higher voltage and regenerates. It will > be > interesting to see how all of this turns out. > I guess that's my $0.02 worth. I'd love to hear more discussion on these > subjects. > Matt Kramp > [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>) >
Just thinking about the immediate questions that come from people skeptical about electric cars. The cost of batteries is almost an immediate concern because of the myths that are out there. People are led to believe that the cost of the batteries that will need to be replaced in 5 years negates all advantages to buying just just buying gas with their existing car. We all know there are many other costs to be considered. A 144 volt pack of lithium is at least $15,000 or more depending on where they come from. Using chinese lithiums are kind of scary due to the quality concerns. I am sure there are many people that have gotten batteries from china and had no problems but I dont want to be the one that has problems and loses alot of money being the unfortunate son. Just one case out of 50 would be greatly hammered on by the skeptics making it look like a problem overall when it really isnt. Ultracaps and lead acids seems to be the way to go at the moment with the caps and batteries in two separate packs. take off on caps has been proven effective with the trinity. but to be able to take off on caps, cruise on batteries and then have the caps recharge from another source other than the batteries we could greatly extend range and the life of the batteries. I have put forth a goal of 1000 amps for 15 seconds at 200 volts to the caps companies and have gotten responses that yes, it is possible to do that with just caps. The cost is about $8,000 but that is a high end goal. The trinity opened the subject and why its not being tested further with existing EVs. I will never know. the ultracaps are not hugely expensive. If your EV could be available for testing by all means lets do it! If we cracked this open and got it working we would give a great boost to EVs reaching 100 miles or more without NIMH batteries. _______________________________________________ Florida EAA mailing list listserv@floridaeaa.org http://www.floridaeaa.org
