Thanks all. The conclusion that I here is that: 1. Gimped Gut Strings are more sensitive at tension when tuning (i.e. change in pitch with change in tension is high). 2. Lowest pitch strings are the hardest. 3. 13 course does better than 11 course due to the rider or the swan neck peghead (some offline conversation) 4. The tension that my string is at is a little on the low side but that it not the cause of the difference. If it is well balanced with the rest of the strings then don't change it. 5. This is not uncommon - live with it or try a different type of string.
Thanks. I really appreciate the feedback. If Alexander gets a chance to post his formulas that would be great. I think I will continue to live with it since I have for many months so far. Regards David -----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Leonard Williams Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 6:47 PM To: Lute List Subject: [LUTE] Re: Question on String Tension Miles brings up a good point. If the string is gimped, the metal ³core² will cause the string to behave more like a metal string: less elastic than the gut covering it. I use gimped fundamentals for 7 and 8 on my 8-course, and I know just what you¹re going through. The lower (heavier, with silver core) string is the fussiest. I find that I just have to do a little back and forth with the tuning until it sounds good. Leonard Williams On 12/18/13, 11:42 PM, "Miles Dempster" <miles.demps...@gmail.com> wrote: >Hi David, > >Have you considered the elasticity of the string material? >Two extremes would be steel (very little peg turning) and nylgut (lots >of peg turning) to bring up to pitch and tune. >Would it be due to the fact that it is a gimped string which makes it >less elastic in comparison to gut? > > > >Miles > > >On Dec 18, 2013, at 9:20 PM, David Smith <d...@dolcesfogato.com> wrote: > >> Hi Ralf, >> I think I did not correctly express the issue I am trying to understand. >> >> The stats on the string are: Pitch at 392, length 0.685, Tension is >>28newtons,Diameter is 2.03mm silver gimped Larson string. The diameter >>is his "equivalent" ungimped diameter as opposed to the actual, >>physical diameter. >> >> I am very happy with this string and how it plays. My question is >>with regard to tuning it. When I am pitch I find that very little >>change in turning the peg causes a large change in the pitch. I have >>a number of instruments (some gut and some nylgut). I do not notice >>this on my Theorbo or 10 course lute (nor any of the others but they >>are all fewer courses). Is this normal? Is there anything that I can >>due to affect the sensitivity to pitch of the string when tuning it? >>Is it an indication of a string that is too high or too low a >>tension? My mathematical analysis of the formula for pitch implies >>that increasing the tension will result in a little less variation in >>pitch due to the change in tension when tuning but it seems really >>small. >> >> I appreciate all of the other comments and suggestions. Since this is >>completely independent of the strings response when I fret it I am not >>sure I understand the comments on twisting the string to reduce it >>stiffness. I do not find the string particularly stiff. That is one >>of the nice advantages of Dan Larson's silver gimped strings - they >>are actually smaller diameter than stated due to the extra mass of >>the silver. >> >> Anyway, any additional thoughts welcome. >> >> Regards >> David >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On >>Behalf Of R. Mattes >> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2013 5:57 AM >> To: alexander; David Smith >> Cc: Lute List >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Question on String Tension >> >> On Wed, 18 Dec 2013 05:11:40 -0500, alexander wrote >>> >>> there is a possibility of improving your situation. First you have >>> to make sure you know which way the string is twisted (clockwise or >>> counter). A strong magnifying glass might be of help. Next you need >>> to get one end of the string free, either the bridge end or the peg end. >>> Firmly holding the string, give it one or two turns in the direction >>> of the twist. Twist as much as possible without a distortion to the >>> shape of the string. Do not let the string to bulk on itself. Fix >>> the end of the string back where it belongs and raise the pitch. Of >>> course make sure the string does not untwist, and keep it somewhat >>> taut while holding. >>> >>> This simple technique might be enough to increase the string's >>> elasticity and make it more agreeable to finger pressure. There is >>> no difficulty to this, just some amount of common sense, and never >>> turn against the string's twist, as if the string is not glued well >>> together, it could be damaged. You could practice on a piece of fret >>> gut, to get a feel to it. Some strings can take quite a bit of twist >>> and actually be improved by this. >> >> Hello Alexander, >> >> sorry, but I want to ask: did you ever try this out yourself and did >>it really work? Even if you really manage to fix the string after >>twisting so that it doesn't immediatly untwist twisting in such a way >>would cause the mass of the string to be unevenly distributed over >>it's length (because the string will be mostly twisted in the middle >>- take a rubberband, twist it and watch where the twisting happens >>;-) And that will create a false string. >> Gut strings are twisted during assembly, while they are wet, not >>afterwards, when dried. >> >> @david: what exactly do you mean when you write "sensitve"? >> Does the string change pitch when you use more than minimal force to >>finger it? Yes, that's typical for low tension strings (as well as >>for metal strings ...) You need to spend a substantial amount of time >>pracising playing at low tension. "Dificult to get in tune" - hmm, >>low tension should result in easier tuning because you need more >>turning of the peg to get the same amount of pitch change compared to >>a high-tension string. As a matter of fact, shortly before the >>breaking point of a string, tiny changes at the peg will result in >>dramatic pitch changes - that's actually how you now that you are >>approaching the breaking point (without breaking the string). >> >> Cheers, Ralf Mattes >> >> >> >> -- >> R. Mattes - >> r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de >> >> >> >> To get on or off this list see list information at >> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >> >> > > >
