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Hi John "Williamson's support for Beeley and Assad is one thing. It is totally reprehensible. All these allegations about anti-Semitism in the British Labour Party are something entirely different." They are not different. Or rather, there's an overlap. Ba'athism is deeply anti-Semitic, and Stalinism has more than flirted with anti-Semitism in the past. There is a long and deeply complex relationship between the Labour left and Stalinism, which has led many on the Labour left into a pretty much wholesale adoption of the Stalinist position on anti-imperialism, which includes uncritical support for regimes that are supposedly opposing imperialism, such as Assad's Ba'athist regime. "Isn't it odd that these allegations never arose until the left Jeremy Corbyn won the leadership?" Not particularly. The Labour right, the press and the Tories were looking for something to discredit the left, and found this. They're using it entirely cynically, but it doesn't necessarily follow that it is an entire fabrication. We didn't find out about Trump's "pussy grabbing" until he ran for President. That doesn't mean the whole story is a lie. What we need to do, like I said, is separate the real instances of anti-Semitism from the false ones. "And you think anti-Semitism is real in British politics? You should try the snobs in the Tory party! But this, of course is, ignored." You don't know me, but rest assured, I have to deal with Tory (local) politicians on a daily basis as a part of my work. I know what they are. The Conservative and Unionist Party are unapologetic racists. Boris Johnson is flirting with Steve Bannon. Their racism and imperialism is unabashed and should always be fought. That doesn’t mean racism doesn’t exist in the labour movement, and shouldn’t be ruthlessly tackled when it arises. Pointing to the racism of the other side doesn’t negate racism in our movement. “I have a good friend who's very active in the Labour Party and in its left wing - Momentum. His last name is Roger Silverman. Is that Jewish enough for you? He says he has not experienced any anti-Semitism in the LP nor in Momentum.” I also know Jewish people inside the Labour Party who would say similar things. While I respect that position, I just think it’s wrong. I’m not Jewish, but I have witnessed anti-semitism on the British left. It’s not vitriolic, or even very open. It’s mostly based on ignorance and tropes, that could be dealt with by education, rather than condemnation. But it’s there. I don’t know what the left is like in Oakland, I hope it’s amazing, but in Britain, due to decades of isolation, we have accumulated our fair share of conspiracy theorists, cranks and weirdos. Orwell complained about it in the 1930s, and if anything it’s got worse. Such people aren’t *dominant *but they’re real. Add to that the role of the Stalinists, who purposely play on conspiracy theories when executing contortions to defend their latest favourite dictator and you have a toxic mix. “The claims are largely based on Corbyn's opposition to the racist State of Israel. Many of those claims originate from the Israeli supporters. And now socialists are going to join in on that? Here are a couple of articles dealing with those claims: https://www.hotpress.com/opinion/eamonn-mccann-jeremy-corbyn -anti-semitism-row-22752609 Roger, himself, has written something on the issue. It is here: https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/04/06/corbyn-an-anti-semit e-roger-silverman-comments/” The right do indeed conflate anti-zionism with anti-semitism. We need to combat that by doing the *opposite. *Namely, correctly identifying actual anti-semitism, and separating it from legitimate criticisms of the Israeli state. We can’t combat it by simply assuming *any *accusation of anti-semitism against the left, wherever it comes from, is because the left opposes Israel. That’s a dangerous road to go down, as we’re essentially doing the same as the right – we’re lumping the two together. “As for Corbyn: Yes, his position on Syria is confused at best. But let's not overlook is overall role. This has been to bring a whole layer of idealistic and angry youth into political activism and to oppose austerity.” He has done exactly that. I’m a member of the Labour Party and will continue to be, for all its problems. However, we should be very wary of simply saying stuff like this whenever legitimate criticisms of the leadership, or the movement as a whole, are raised. Corbyn’s position on Syria isn’t confused, it’s atrocious, and the position of some people in his inner circle is worse than that, as far as I’m concerned they’re complicit in Assad’s crimes (I don’t say that lightly). What has developed around Corbyn is a real opportunity to build a genuine socialist movement in this country. It’s exciting, but we can’t just ignore fundamental problems that exist in the left. Yes, new people are involved, but plenty of people, organisations and tendencies that have been around for years are involved also, and many of them have been washed into leading positions by this new wave. They bring with them the muck of ages of the British left, and this won’t go away if we simply ignore it. “I think many of these same youth will not stand passively by if the new government supports Assad, as Western imperialism in general is doing today” I think that that would be much more likely if the leadership position was consistently opposed. The dominant foreign policy position on the British left historically, and now amongst the “youth” we are talking about. Is a kind of vague pacifism. There’s nothing wrong with it, but for many decades the Stalinists have adopted the language of pacifism as a cloak for their support for regimes like Assad’s. They’ll continue to use this trick so long as they’re allowed to get away with it, and many very good people will be hoodwinked by it. “Both the Conservatives and the Blairites in the LP have been looking for a way to undermine Corbyn ever since he rose to prominence. Are we really going to join in on that chorus, the same chorus that conflates opposition to Zionism and the racist State of Israel with anti-Semitism? Really?” That’s the problem isn’t it? One can raise issues of anti-semitism without siding with the Blairites and the Conservatives. *We’ve been here before. *Criticism of the Soviet Union was siding with capitalism. Criticism of Arthur Scargill or Derek Hatton meant you were siding with Thatcher. Criticism of George Galloway meant you were siding with Blair and Bush. This is the issue with the left in Britain, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s similar elsewhere. We’re so used to unfair and continuous attacks that we have adopted a siege mentality. We have a knee-jerk response to criticism where we assume (often accurately) foul play, and therefore white was genuine problems that we have. The Corbynite movement is a perfect example of this. Corbyn and the movement have been subject to continuous attacks non-stop since he became leader. Issues have been fabricated, lies have been told, scandals whipped up. We have gotten used to simply dismissing *any *criticism of him as “lies of the capitalist press” or “Blairite plots”. In many cases that’s in fact the case. But the risk is that we confuse genuine and well-meant criticism from inside the movement for attacks from the outside. Following that logic through, we have traitors in our midst all of a sudden. Any criticism is a cynical ploy to discredit the left, and must be shut down. We risk creating an environment where dissent is not tolerated. I don’t think anyone is really setting out to bring about that state of affairs, but the left has a habit of slipping into it unconsciously. *We’ve been here before. * On Wed, Aug 22, 2018 at 1:34 AM John Reimann via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > Williamson's support for Beeley and Assad is one thing. It is totally > reprehensible. All these allegations about anti-Semitism in the British > Labour Party are something entirely different. Isn't it odd that these > allegations never arose until the left Jeremy Corbyn won the leadership? > And you think anti-Semitism is real in British politics? You should try the > snobs in the Tory party! But this, of course is, ignored. I have a good > friend who's very active in the Labour Party and in its left wing - > Momentum. His last name is Roger Silverman. Is that Jewish enough for you? > He says he has not experienced any anti-Semitism in the LP nor in Momentum. > > The claims are largely based on Corbyn's opposition to the racist State of > Israel. Many of those claims originate from the Israeli supporters. And now > socialists are going to join in on that? Here are a couple of articles > dealing with those claims: > > https://www.hotpress.com/opinion/eamonn-mccann-jeremy-corbyn-anti-semitism-row-22752609 > Roger, himself, has written something on the issue. It is here: > > https://oaklandsocialist.com/2018/04/06/corbyn-an-anti-semite-roger-silverman-comments/ > > > As for Corbyn: Yes, his position on Syria is confused at best. But let's > not overlook is overall role. This has been to bring a whole layer of > idealistic and angry youth into political activism and to oppose austerity. > If he becomes the next Prime Minister, I think many of these same youth > will not stand passively by if the new government supports Assad, as > Western imperialism in general is doing today. Both the Conservatives and > the Blairites in the LP have been looking for a way to undermine Corbyn > ever since he rose to prominence. Are we really going to join in on that > chorus, the same chorus that conflates opposition to Zionism and the racist > State of Israel with anti-Semitism? Really? > > John Reimann > > -- > *“In politics, abstract terms conceal treachery.” *from "The Black > Jacobins" by C. L. R. James > Check out:https:http://oaklandsocialist.com also on Facebook > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/nelsontim86%40gmail.com _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
