Dear Ed and List, Ed, I am sure the list would be interested in seeing your Table of Contents or excerpts from your book. This might also aid in more sales of your book. I have been looking for a review of your book; if you know of any reviews please let us know. Thank you. Dirk Ross...Tokyo
I encourage Dr. Blakeslee, archaeologist from Kansas, a member of this list to join the discussion. --- "E.P. Grondine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Sterling, > > What may be an Iroquoian tradition of the Brenham > impact is given in "Man and Impact in the Americas" > (available through amazon.com). I am glad that > organic > samples were taken for radio-carbon dating in Steve > Arnold's hunt. > > I am sure that the physics of that impact have been > analyzed, but I don't know if a concise description > of > the appearance of that small impact has ever been > written up. My guess is that one will probably be > part of the television special. > > As I mentioned earlier, the "Hopewell" - Cherokee, > Shawnee - value meteorites. I mentioned Mooney's > reports of the Cherokee meteorite trade earlier, and > I > note here that the Shawnee have a rather elaborate > vocabulary for celestial phenomenon. When you > consider > the astronomical function of "Hopewell" ring > structures, this should come as no surprise. > > Note that some of the meteorites were found beaten > into sheets, and near mica - these were mirrored > surfaces, and as I mentioned earlier, polished iron > slices, particularly from North American meteorites, > will find good trade value from artisans at powwow. > Fire starting irons are valued as well today, and > this > is pretty generally held. > > good hunting, > Ed > Man and Impact in the Americas > > > --- "Sterling K. Webb" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > Hi, Doug, > > > > Hijacking your nice thread again... > > > > The tektites in Tikal didn't "find their way" > > there > > by any other means than falling out of the sky. > They > > have been found in the temples, anciently > collected, > > and one much more degraded one has been found > > in the forests surrounding. > > > > Alan Hildebrandt dated them and they fall right > > into the upper end of the dating spread for > > Australite/ > > Indochinite tektites, which, surprise! they look > > just > > exactly like. Grab your globe and give it a twirl. > > Tikal's "antipodal point" is on the western edge > of > > the Australo-Asian strewn field. Likewise, an > > Ivorite > > was recovered from off shore of the Australian > > coast. > > equally antipodal to Ivory Coast, unless you think > > "the currents" carried it there -:) laughing... > > > > Casa Grande was found in 1867: "A mass of > > 3407lb > > was found in an ancient tomb, E.G. Tarayre (1867). > > L. Fletcher (1890) implies that this mass was > > presented > > to the Smithsonian Institution in 1876. First > > Description, > > W. Tassin (1902). Analysis, 7.74 %Ni, G.P. Merrill > > (1913). > > Historical note, O.E. Monnig (1939)..." > > > > Somebody asked for referrences on meteorite > > collecting > > by early American cultures (Maybe Ed). Here's one > > about > > Hopewell meteorite collecting, except it goes on > to > > discuss > > dozens of other cultures, locales, and meteorites > > including Casa > > Grandes. It's a nice piece of work by Olaf Prufer: > > > https://kb.osu.edu/dspace/bitstream/1811/4817/1/V61N06_341.pdf > > > > No surprize, H. H. Nininger wrote "METEORITE > > COLLECTING > > AMONG ANCIENT AMERICANS" in 1938. That paper can > be > > found at: > > > http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0002-7316(193807)4%3A1%3C39%3AMCAAA%3E2.0.CO%3B2-W > > but it's where no mere mortal without official > > access can view it... > > You can read the first page, though, which is > enough > > to see that > > it covers much the same ground as the paper > > previously cited > > (up above this one) which you can get to see (and > > download). > > > > Handing the thread back to you, Doug. > > > > > > Sterling K. Webb > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "MexicoDoug" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Martin Altmann" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Cc: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > > > Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:03 PM > > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels > > -gifts II > > > > > > > > > Whooooe, Martin, thanks for the kind comments > -- > > I re-read my post, your > > > words and by all means did take one comment very > > much to heart. I'm > > > guilty > > > as charged for not giving further consideration > to > > other meteoritically > > > interested cultures between those Germanic and > > ancients. I think Ed would > > > be the better expert in that department on this > > side of the Atlantic. You > > > speak of the Aztecs as a culture with as rich of > a > > treatment of things > > > meteoritic as the medieval traditions in your > > lands... I'd like to know > > > more > > > about that. > > > > > > I'd be interested in knowing what meteorites the > > Aztecs venerated, feared, > > > deified, or imbued with magical qualities. Are > > you perhaps thinking of > > > Xocotl the Aztec god of fire and Dark and occult > > side of planet Venus? I > > > think he was more likey born spewn from a > volcano, > > of which there are many > > > in his territory, or as legend goes, a ball of > > feathers fell in a temple > > > his > > > virgin mother then bore him and others. So > > Xocotl's mother may have been > > > fertilized by a meteorite in a stretch of faith > > (the feathers could be > > > thought of as cometary)...but these are much > > further musings than others > > > I've made:-) > > > > > > Maybe your reference is meant to consider the > over > > 1.5 ton Casas Grandes > > > Iron meteorite mummy found in the ruins of the > > temple of a mysterious > > > peoples of Mexico and carted out to > Philadelphia, > > USA. I say mysterious > > > peoples as I don't think you can call them > Aztecs > > with certainty, and they > > > may actually be somewhat Navajo. Unfortunately, > > the information on that > > > culture is so scant, circumstantial and too > > inconclusive. But the Casas > > > Grandes meteorite had fallen tens of thousands > of > > years before that region > > > was populated. Thus, at best, one can imagine > > that it was appreciated for > > > its heft and unique nearly indestructable > > properties. > > > > > > The reason I'm not sure we can call that culture > > Aztec, is because the > > > business end of the great Aztec empire was > > generally disconnected and > > > geographically no where near the southern limits > > of that mysterious > > > culture, > > > to make tribute payments to the empire. In > fact, > > it seems to just > > > mysteroiusly vanished without battle before the > > Spanish first appeared > > > anywhere on the scene. There is contentious > > speculaion that that > > > particular > > > culture was from northern New Mexico near > > Colorado, and Ed may be able to > > > add more on that subject. It seems to me they > > were their own independent > > > culture eventually centered in Paquimé, > Chihuahua, > > very close to El Paso > > > TX - Juarez MX, where the meteorite was dug up. > > Hopefully we can learn > > > more, but anything new will be an uphill battle > > the way the evidence is so > > > limited and thus dominated more by speculations. > > > I am not aware of too > > > much > > > shared divinity evidence though a minimal amount > > is no doubt common. > > > > > > The the next meteoritic thing in my neck of the > > desert, sitting above the > > > northern tip of Mesoamerica, I can mention are > the > > few tektites found way > > > down in the ancient Mayan city of Tikal - but > that > > would be in Guatemala > > > already. These unique chards which are > mysteries > > themselves as no more > > > paired have been found after extensive > scientific > > field work and study, > > > and > > > they are generally Chicxulub era mintage. > > > > > > What surprises me, is not the great deal of > > evidence of meteorites in the > > > Aztec and Mayan cities, but rather the lack of > it. > > I really would have > > > thought more references, stonework or carvings > > could have been passed > > > along. > > > We're talking about a culture with debatably > > sophistiated astronomers and > > > celestial timekeepers rivaling the Europeans and > > Arabs during periods in > > > their history. I'd be very interested to be > > reminded if I have missed any > > > mythology here even with the destruction here > that > > has ensued there has > > > been > > > a great deal of stoneworks preserved and I am > > unaware of meteorites and > > > comets showing on any of them despite the > > observatories and > > > sophistication. > > > > > > Martin, I appreciate your kind humility > regarding > > the historical record of > > > Germanic accomplishments. I wasn't referring to > > your Grimms' tale, but > > > rather the Grimms' "Star Money" which I posted > the > > other day. On the > > > other > > > hand the accomplishments of Chinese, Arab, and > > Japanese, among others > > > certainly survived in some shapes and forms and > > deserve a more important > > > mention than I foolishly brushed by at 4:00 AM. > I > > think though you've > > > assumed a bit too much about my thoughts of > rites > > and legend and today's > > > Germany as a nation. My use of German- and > > Germanic was intended to cover > > > everyone from King Arthur to the Vikings, I hope > > Gauls (not sure are they > > > Germanic?), as well as the Barvarians...Am I > wrong > > with this? The > > > qualities > > > of these peoples and their attraction to these > > metals for weapons, > > > Excalibur > > > itself I mentioned, the sword legend would have > > pulled from a > > > stone...etc... > > > Perhaps the Romans with the push for > > de-paganization most effectively > > > stiffled throughout the empire idolization of > > metals and weapons and that > > > is > > > the simple reason - I don't know. > > > > > > But, since you mention the enlightenment to > > Chladni's time for things > > > meteoritic, I'd say be careful not to be a fish > in > > a fishbowl who doesn't > > > appreciate the water that surrounds him as we > > thirsty and envious cats are > > > looking in with our saucery eyes for a bite to > > eat. Take explorers as > > > recent as Alexander von Humboldt, who I think > > recovered meteoritical iron > > > from Chupaderos MX most probably a few short > > months _before_ the French > > > fall > > > in L'Aigle reached him. Then, he went to visit > > his good friend Thomas > > > Jefferson in Washington for several weeks they > > managed to socialize many, > > > many stimulating hours their mutual > satisfaction, > > and I fully suspect that > > > Jefferson would have been given the opportunity > to > > see this, after their > > > extensive scientific and social discussions. > > Interestingly, L'Aigle must > > > have been old news to Baron von Humboldt once he > > traveled from Mexico to > > > Washington DC, and Humboldt was certainly up on > > the geological sciences > > > from > > > France (as a matter of fact he and Jefferson > even > > corresponded in French > > > on > > > ocassion). This puts a different perspective > > entirely on Jefferson's > > > famous > > > satirical Yankee comments, especially knowing > the > > master politician and > > > skilled manipulator of the press in the new > > anarchy he delighted in. The > > > Secretary of State had to offer the Baron a visa > > and permit to carry many > > > scientific samplings from Latin America, Any > more > > info you might have > > > here? > > > Would this have been discussed? Was the iron > > meteorite actually collected > > > in 1803 by Humboldt, part of the bill of lading, > > or did it somehow get > > > into > > > his possession at a later date?? These are > burning > > questions. Humboldt > > > helped Jefferson enough to plan together the > > expedition for the Lousiana > > > Purchase, and how to collect, I wonder if they > > corresponded in 1807 about > > > the Weston fall? > > > > > > I even live near a nice street named after > > Humboldt in Mexico. Less than > > > five short years in Latin America...the records > of > > his 12 months of > > > travels > > > throughout Mexico are no doubt archived with > great > > precision somewhere in > > > Berlin and in scattered reprints in Mexico. > Which > > street in Munich is > > > named > > > after a Mexican explorer :-) ? > > > > > > Best wishes, Doug > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > Meteorite-list mailing list > > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > > > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do You Yahoo!? > Tired of spam? Yahoo! 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