Get a room, you two. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Lake Thomas R <l...@sunydutchess.edu> Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2013 01:30:46 To: <tgrain...@comcast.net>; <jjcpurav...@gmail.com> Cc: <nysbird...@list.cornell.edu>; <annie.mcint...@parks.ny.gov> Subject: RE: [nysbirds-l] Why did you yell at him? Bird must have left becuase of yell
"The real problem is knowing when you are too close to a particular bird." An interesting take on this. When we begin to think that we have wildlife figured out to the point of truly sensing their tolerance to us (reading their thoughts?) then we have evolved into a clairvoyant (self-righteous?) species, in our own minds. Tom Lake ---------------- From: bounce-111089409-26920...@list.cornell.edu [bounce-111089409-26920...@list.cornell.edu] On Behalf Of tgrain...@comcast.net [tgrain...@comcast.net] Sent: Monday, December 02, 2013 1:15 PM To: John Cancalosi Cc: NYSBIRDS-L; Annie McIntyre (LI) Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Why did you yell at him? Bird must have left becuase of yell Getting closer is exactly the answer for photographers!! Even with the longest lens from Nikon or Canon closer is better. The real problem is knowing when you are too close to a particular bird. I have seen both photographers and birders worry a bird enough so that it flew. Frankly, more birders do it than photographers simply because of numbers. A little less self-righteousness and more understanding would go a long way towards lessening the animosity so openly expressed by some birders. This is a copy of my response to Tom Lake yesterday ---------------- From: "John Cancalosi" <jjcpurav...@gmail.com> To: "Annie McIntyre (LI)" <annie.mcint...@parks.ny.gov> Cc: "NYSBIRDS-L" <nysbird...@list.cornell.edu> Sent: Monday, December 2, 2013 1:03:38 PM Subject: Re: [nysbirds-l] Why did you yell at him? Bird must have left becuase of yell As a lowly photographer ,(not the one in question), I am grateful for yet another reminder that I, and those like me, are inextricably wallowing in a Stygian morass of moral terpitude, while those of a higher calling look down in righteuos judgement upon our nefarious activities, with both of their feet firmly planted on the immutable, lofty pinnacles of moral high ground. On Mon, Dec 2, 2013 at 8:43 AM, McIntyre, Annie (LI) <annie.mcint...@parks.ny.gov <mailto:annie.mcint...@parks.ny.gov> > wrote: Folks let's not do this AGAIN. Photogs vs birders. we've all seen offenders on both sides. It's a pleasure reading this list to hear about the birds that are around, but not so much the squabbles. Better done in private conversation. Good birding! Annie McIntyre From: bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu <mailto:bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu> [mailto:bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu <mailto:bounce-111084078-10774...@list.cornell.edu> ] On Behalf Of Lake, Thomas R Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 9:38 AM To: Meena Madhav Haribal; NYSBIRDS-L Subject: RE:[nysbirds-l] Why did you yell at him? Bird must have left becuase of yell "If the photographer was approaching very cautiously and did not make the owl scared of him then he has not done anything wrong except he has approached closer." Buy better optics! Getting closer is NEVER the answer. Tom Lake ---------------- From: bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu <mailto:bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu> [bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu <mailto:bounce-111084023-26920...@list.cornell.edu> ] On Behalf Of Meena Madhav Haribal [m...@cornell.edu <mailto:m...@cornell.edu> ] Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2013 8:49 AM To: NYSBIRDS-L Subject: [nysbirds-l] Why did you yell at him? Bird must have left becuase of yell Hello all, Bob Adamo wrote this and I have highlighted his reactions! Subject: 1 Snowy, + 1 terrible photographer = 1 stressed bird + 1 call to the cops ! From: robert adamo <radamo4...@gmail.com <mailto:radamo4...@gmail.com> > Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2013 22:42:29 -0500 X-Message-Number: 13 " I stopped, got out of my car, and yelled to him to stop, that what he was doing was against the law. He heard me and dismissed me. I then took his license plate #, and called the police. I called out to him again, he listened to all I said, and proceeded to move closer to the bird, after telling me "there are no signs saying I can't ". While I was still on the phone, the snowy took off, heading west. The police said they were responding, and armed with the plate # and description of the idiot's SUV, they might catch up to him ! I felt I must say something here. If the photographer was approaching very cautiously and did not make the owl scared of him then he has not done anything wrong except he has approached closer. Sometimes animals can tolerate non-scary humans and permit them to go close enough. So it is better to observe photographers behavior and the animal's reaction before being officious and call police. All you know the bird must have got disturbed by your (Bob Adamo's) yelling at him and all the following activities as probably the owl perceived it as two encounters approaching him/her. I have observed birders, including those who call themselves as experts do all sort of things, for example, chasing a tired migratory bird till they have had satisfied look. Oh! They seem to have right because they are birders and not photographers. So birders have right to do whatever they feel is right even though the birds may be stressed for example by continuously playing playbacks (Oh boy! how many of those I have seen). I have had amazing experiences when I have approached the birds or animals very cautiously and slowly in a non-threatening way. They even have kind of responded to me in a positive way. So by being closer if you are not threatening the subjects of your interest then there is nothing wrong as long as you know when and where to stop. The knee-jerk reaction of being closer equals threatening birds is a wrong notion. So be careful of your own reactions. And also have patience to observe the behavior of the photographers before you decide to take any actions! So best thing is if someone is photographing a bird is to leave the location ASAP for the photographer to get a good photo as he has approached the bird before you have! Meena PS: I am not a bird photographer, though occasionally I shoot birds but mostly insect photographer where the insects have let me approach them as close as a centimeter and still they have not flown away and shown amazing behaviors! Meena Haribal Ithaca NY 14850 42.429007,-76.47111 http://haribal.org/ http://meenaharibal.blogspot.com/ -- NYSbirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> ! -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> ! -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> ! -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> ! -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> ! -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: Welcome and Basics <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME> Rules and Information <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES> Subscribe, Configuration and Leave <http://www.northeastbirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm> Archives: The Mail Archive <http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html> Surfbirds <http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L> BirdingOnThe.Net <http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html> Please submit your observations to eBird <http://ebird.org/content/ebird/> ! -- -- NYSbirds-L List Info: http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsWELCOME http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsRULES http://www.NortheastBirding.com/NYSbirdsSubscribeConfigurationLeave.htm ARCHIVES: 1) http://www.mail-archive.com/nysbirds-l@cornell.edu/maillist.html 2) http://www.surfbirds.com/birdingmail/Group/NYSBirds-L 3) http://birdingonthe.net/mailinglists/NYSB.html Please submit your observations to eBird: http://ebird.org/content/ebird/ --
