hello again On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 08:23 +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > let me switch in again. it was not my intention to stop a thread in a > > dictatorship way. i just noticed, that the discussion meandered through > > very different subject-matters, that weren't related anymore at all to > > the original topic 'sexism', and it seems, that it wasn't coming to a > > point. > > thanks for switching in again, I feel we don't discuss the topic of sexism > which is in front of our sex, it is basically always there. gender, we > keep on being fixed on gender on agressive attitudes, intolerance. > > for example this > http://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2007-10/054689.html > > If I remember well Matju was also molested by this. > to me this was intolerance because it doesn't allow us to get into a > deeper degree in the conversation.
yo, i see. me as well would feel more comfortable without having this kind of posts in the list. however - and by saying that i don't want to justify it - this probably is rather an expression of uneasiness and anxiety to be accused of sexism too carelessly as a man (not that this happened on the list, but in general, this is surely an issue as well). > It may also be known as male bonding (funnily enough it was followed by a > funny advertisementlike max msp thread) > > I've been speaking with other fellow women from the Pd convention in > Montreal about why we don't write to the list and I have to mention some > practical factors, a different division of labor, many of the women > that can take the time to read the pd list are independent, self employed > and doing multiple jobs and arrangements to live-- some of us are not > 'professional' programmers but we get to deal with a lot of technology in > our work with sensors, diy, electronica, computer music, web > programming,. So, some of us feel that we don't have time to answer it!. > > I learn pd by myself and the list is very useful though. My last problem > was creb compilation and I solved it very fast following that thread until > the end ;) > > since this is still a list about pd, i proposed in a not so > > serious way to bury that thread, since a real discussion obviously > > couldn't be established. > > i think your attempt was very kind and brought some peace. I wanted to > propose to brew a drink that people make in bolivia, peru, chile, > argentina, ecuador guatemala and many places in altiplano (high > mountains) > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicha what should we say instead of 'cheers'? > and about feminist jokes. well you know feminism is in total discredit, is > not fashionable anymore but the conditions for women are not equal and we > face feminicide (this is extermination of women)in various areas of the > world. this is true and very sad. however i don't see the point in discussing such big world problems in pd-list. > So I don't mind being sensitive to anything that is related to > this. > and some feminist from the south are excellent, in case you would like > some good internet radio > > http://nueva.radionumerocritico.cl/news.php thanks for the link, though i probably need to learn spanish first ;-) i tried the streams ( http://stream.r23.cc:2323/ranumcri.mp3 ), but i get: Server returned 404:File Not Found > I didn't start this thread on sexism because I didn't have any particular > complaint against this list although I can remember some situations > outside the list: > > - once a pd friend said to me that still no women wrote an external, ah > yes I would like to program a external I said. He said oh well Yves can do > that you don't have to do that. > > -once a pd friend which I wanted to talk to said ah! you are the visual > artist that works with Yves. that was ok but there is this prejudice that > women doing pd do visuals. Ah no, I make noise. > > -once a pd friend didn't include me in the logs of a pd irc chat meeting (!) > > -once a pd friend said that his professor said that women can't do sound > because is too abstract for them, they need the materiality of visuals what i find really alarming about these examples is the fact, that they do not only show a form of sexism, that is based on bad using of words, but, what i think is much more serious, illustrate, how deep certain concepts of gender are squatted in some brains. i don't know what do say.... > but many other times I have also been -very encouraged by people that > participate a lot in the list and in pd meetings and pd projects to keep > on learning and feel more confident in my autonomy towards media. > > it would be better IMHO to discuss things and not avoid it but yes that > would take time, to look into what we really mean by sexism and ask around > why women (hey but not only women) don't participate in this spaces. agreed! roman ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list