>We've been through this before, but much of the profits that, say, 
>Ford and GM earn from their finance subsidiaries come from financing 
>cars and trucks. So it's not speculative profit - they're making the 
>money the bankers used to make.

Yeh, but ....  it got bigger by an order of magnitude in the 1990s.  I don't
think that GE Capital makes most of its money by financing fridges and
air-conditioners any more.  And that's without getting into the profits
Microsoft booked selling puts on its own stock ....

dd


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