Sven and philippe I was wondering what was the license of your submissions to webClient. Because this will be also a problem. Either you totally give it to andreas and he can do what he wants with it, or you retain the right on the code and andreas has to decide what he will do with it. Since you can change the license of your code I imagine that andreas will not include any code if the code is not given to him.
Funny situation. I think that it is even more confusing than with the old Squeak-L. Stef On Aug 30, 2010, at 12:00 AM, Andreas Raab wrote: > Hi Sven, > > [cc: pharo list since I think there are some larger issues to discuss] > > First of all thank you for your continued interest in WebClient. It is nice > to see that people like to use it. However, I'm more than a bit surprised > about what you are saying below about having WebClient in Pharo 1.2. > Honestly, I was dumbfounded when I went to read some of the discussions on > the Pharo list. > > May I ask what the due diligence process is for including packages in Pharo? > I would have expected that the process includes 1) checking the project page > on SS for the license and 2) sending the author a courtesy note along the > lines of "hey we want to include your code, are you okay with that?" (in > particular if the author of the package isn't on the Pharo list and > consequently has no clue about what you're doing). > > 1. Regarding WebClient's license, please have a look at any of the following > repositories, all of which are under MIT: > > http://www.squeaksource.com/Balloon3D.html > http://www.squeaksource.com/CroquetGL.html > http://www.squeaksource.com/ToolBuilder.html > http://www.squeaksource.com/TweakCore.html > ... etc ... > > As you can see, when I mean to put code under the MIT license, I try to state > that by including a copy of the license on the front page of the repository > as well as setting the license field. Contrary to, for example, the following > repositories: > > http://www.squeaksource.com/ar.html > http://www.squeaksource.com/SqueakSSL.html > http://www.squeaksource.com/WebClient.html > > which are not (or not yet) under MIT. Obviously, I'm trying to be as clear as > possible on these matters, which is why I was pointing out that your > repository incorrectly claims that the version of WebClient in it is LGPLv2. > I'm surprised (and shocked) that apparently nobody in Pharo even tries to > find out what the license status for WebClient is. > > 2. Regarding my intentions / position you'll have to keep in mind that I > don't read the Pharo list. I tried to follow it in the past only to be faced > with several vicious attacks against Squeak and myself and as a consequence I > stopped reading it. Consequently, this is the first time anyone has ever > mentioned the inclusion of WebClient in Pharo to me. > > In short, my position is that we need more shared libraries, not more forks. > You will probably see the irony that I specifically didn't set a license on > WebClient to prevent such forks without any prior discussion (under the > hopelessly naive assumption that there would be some sort of due diligence > process) only to find out that you've forked WebClient already. How very > ironic indeed. > > Because of my position above, I think WebClient should be an external > package, loaded for example via Metacello configuration. In fact, that's > exactly why I provided a Metacello configuration to begin with. Can someone > perhaps explain where the urge to include (and consequently fork) WebClient > comes from? WebClient is a perfectly good external package and for the time > being I prefer it should stay that way. If you want to replace HTTPSocket, > then have a look at Squeak 4.2 which contains a very simple HTTPSocket > implementation that has hooks so that WebClient will be used if it's loaded. > > Regarding fixes for Pharo, as far as I know the only changes that I haven't > included was a bunch of #asString sprinkled all over the places, and the > abominations of replacing #squeakToUtf8 and #utf8ToSqueak with > "convert[From|To]WithConverter: UTF8TextConverter new". On both of these > issues I feel very strongly; I will not make the code substantially worse > only to deal with shortcomings of Pharo. So if you cannot come to a > reasonable resolution for these, you'll need the extension methods. Outside > of that, I believe that not only have I integrated all the fixes that have > been sent to me, I have also added several patches to WebClient-Pharo that > provide important fixes for (in Pharo broken) network operations without > which WebClient would not work in any released Pharo versions. > > Summary: > * I'm surprised and I'm shocked to see that there is apparently no due > diligence regarding new packages in Pharo. I find this in particular shocking > giving the wild claims on the Pharo web site that "From the beginning of > Pharo we have maintained a strict rule that every contributor has to sign our > license agreement." I haven't. (and geez, when did Michael got dropped from > the Pharo board?) > > * I don't want WebClient to be included in Pharo since this means you will be > producing a Pharo-only fork of WebClient which is counter-productive from my > perspective. I want WebClient to remain a shared loadable package with a > canonical source repository available to all forks of Squeak, including Pharo. > > * I have, and will continue to do so, integrate fixes for Pharo as long as I > consider them reasonable. If there is interest, I can also provide an updated > Metacello configuration; although that really just boils down to updating it > to the latest package versions. > > Cheers, > - Andreas > > On 8/29/2010 4:43 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >> Andreas, >> >> The lastest fiddling that I did is now in PharoInBox: >> >> Name: WebClient-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.74 >> Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe >> Time: 27 August 2010, 1:59:46 pm >> UUID: d97ff218-9bde-4259-bf8a-f9d0fe116138 >> Ancestors: WebClient-Core-StephaneDucasse.73, WebClient-Core-pmm.73 >> >> merged in pharo-core 1.2 >> >> We're down to 2 unit test failures/errors againt your latest tests. >> >> A number of people including myself are interested, enthousiastic and >> willing to help bring WebClient to Pharo (1.1 and 1.2), and by using it, >> help it improve its core functionality. However, the current process, >> whereby you mostly ignore Pharo related fixes, makes that very difficult (we >> basically almost have to start over again with each commit you do, comparing >> changes becomes harder and harder). You can check the Pharo mailing lists. >> >> As I said before, it is your code and your decision what your standpoint is >> regarding portability (to Squeak derivatives and even other Smalltalks). I >> can understand it if you find it too much work. But I do think you should >> make it clear what your standpoint is. >> >> Regards, >> >> Sven >> >> On 29 Aug 2010, at 04:30, Andreas Raab wrote: >> >>> You're probably busy, so just a little "ping" :-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> - Andreas >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: WebClient-Core port to Pharo 1.1 final >>> Date: Wed, 25 Aug 2010 22:40:07 -0700 >>> From: Andreas Raab<andreas.r...@gmx.de> >>> To: Sven Van Caekenberghe<s...@beta9.be> >>> >>> Hi Sven, >>> >>> Sorry for the belated reply I think something is wrong with Thunderbird >>> 3's spam filter; it appears that messages with attachments get routinely >>> marked as spam or something. In any case a message on Squeak-dev just >>> got me to look for lost email and yours was among them :-) >>> >>> Do you know if these changes are still applicable? There have been >>> numerous changes in the meantime in WebClient and haven't been paying >>> much attention. >>> >>> Oh, and one more thing. When I went to the project page at >>> http://www.squeaksource.com/ADayAtTheBeach.html it claims that "Code >>> commited to this repository will be automatically under LGPLv2 license." >>> >>> Obviously, this is not true for WebClient; could I ask you to change the >>> declaration on your repository or move your versions to some other >>> repository? The way it is right now people might rightfully assume that >>> the WebClient versions in your repository are under LGPLv2 which is >>> simply incorrect. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> - Andreas >>> >>> On 8/12/2010 1:59 AM, Sven Van Caekenberghe wrote: >>>> Hi Andreas, >>>> >>>> I made some changes to the latest WebClient-Core in order to run it on >>>> Pharo 1.1: >>>> >>>> Sven Van Caekenberghe uploaded a new version of WebClient-Core to project >>>> A Day At The Beach: >>>> http://www.squeaksource.com/ADayAtTheBeach/WebClient-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.63.mcz >>>> >>>> ==================== Summary ==================== >>>> >>>> Name: WebClient-Core-SvenVanCaekenberghe.63 >>>> Author: SvenVanCaekenberghe >>>> Time: 12 August 2010, 10:46:11 am >>>> UUID: 149d44b2-138b-4d63-a158-f587b2bd391d >>>> Ancestors: WebClient-Core-ar.62 >>>> >>>> added some more #asString's where needed to deal with the different >>>> semantics of #, in Squeak vs Pharo; removed usage of #and:and:and:and: >>>> with a composition of #and: in WebClient>>connect >>>> >>>> ================================================ >>>> >>>> I still have some tests that fail, but I can't find the problem: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> 39 run, 34 passes, 0 expected failures, 0 failures, 5 errors, 0 unexpected >>>> passes >>>> Failures: >>>> >>>> Errors: >>>> WebClientServerTest>>#testMultipartFiles >>>> WebClientServerTest>>#testMultipartFiles2 >>>> WebClientServerTest>>#testServerError >>>> WebClientServerTest>>#testWebSockets >>>> WebClientServerTest>>#testWebSocketsFraming >>>> >>>> The #testServerError bothers me most. >>>> >>>> I am posting this to a Pharo list as well so that maybe others can help. >>>> Maybe I'll find the problems myself later on. >>>> >>>> Sven >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pharo-project mailing list > Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr > http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project _______________________________________________ Pharo-project mailing list Pharo-project@lists.gforge.inria.fr http://lists.gforge.inria.fr/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pharo-project
