With which specific statements in my post do you disagree, and why? I can
support every statement in the post with a great deal of documentation from the
most reputable of sources, nearly all of them Jewish.
Are you trying to deny that ancient Jewish religious writings aren't organized
around bitter conflict between Jews and all the other ethnic groups in the
world, and that this ethnocentric (often racist) ideology hasn't strongly
influenced many Zionist leaders, including supposedly secular Zionist leaders
like David Ben-Gurion? On what grounds do you deny this?
You have all the time in the world to prepare an informed response.
tigerbengalis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: More
anti-Jewish bigotry too blatant (and too lacking in even a faint semblance of
understanding of world history) too respond to.
Sean McBride <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Ancient Jewish religious writings, which comprise the
core of much of the Jewish tradition, portray world history as an endless
succession of violent conflicts between one ethnic group -- the Jews -- and all
the other ethnic groups -- "the nations." Perhaps this ideological meme, which
has persisted for thousands of years, helps to explain much of the history of
antisemitism. Much of the conflict, which is based on religious myths and
superstitions, is self-generated and self-perpetuating. The only mystery here
is why some people created this meme in the first place, and why they have
clung so ferociously to it for so long. Even the minds of quite a few secular
Zionists, like David Ben-Gurion, have been controlled by these myths and
symbols. Some Jews are trapped in an infinite negative feedback loop. Many
Jews are trying to escape the loop.
tim_howells_1000 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
TigerBengalis wrote:
It's next to impossible to even respond to your narrow and silly stereotypes
of Jews in general (when you favorably cite the silly passage "Jews conclude
from what they are taught by their religious leaders..." and of me ("Probably
Tiger is not conscious of this, but he has lived and breathed this culture his
whole life...").
Here is the passage I cited from John Spritzer:
Jews conclude from what they are taught by their religious leaders that the
attacks on Jews can only be explained by the notion that gentiles harbor an
irrational hatred of Jews, and that gentile antisemitism is mysterious,
inherent and timeless.
Why do you object to this statement? It seems to summarize your own views of
antisemitism very well. Here is something you posted on a previous thread:
I actually don't think we understand the "root" causes of anti-Semitism -- I
think humans haven't developed a scientific understanding of the dark depths of
this species soul. Hence, religion's prominence and persistence, as a way to
find explanations to the unexplainable.
Obviously you do indeed view antisemitism as "mysterious, inherent and
timeless." I think that Spritzer has displayed deep insight here, and he has
corroborated the insight with many important sources.
I don't think that you are a religious fundamentalist, so probably you could
quibble with the reference to "religious leaders," and I would agree that
strictly speaking this puts it too narrowly. Obviously this attitude can be,
and is shared by secularists.
Tim Howells
>
> If you are at this stage of the game grappling with the "difficult" issue you
> claim to be wrestling with ("Was the US (pre 1967) wrong for wanting to
> preserve white european predominance?") then I can only wish you the best of
> luck. If you find that question can be magically and reductionistally made
> parallel to the Israeli situation, well then I'm sure you will find all your
> answers to rationalize your opinions in the sources you are citing here.
> Lotsa luck.
>
> tim_howells_1000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Tim Howells wrote:
> > John Spritzler <http://spritzlerj.blogspot.com/> is a very interesting
> > blogger (found via xymphora <http://xymphora.blogspot.com/> ) who is
> > tackling the big issues of interest on this news-group. I will have to
> > really study and think about this, but I have to say at this point that
> > Spritzler articulates my own thoughts on these issues very, very well.
> >
> > How Jewish Elites Use Anti-Gentilism to Control Ordinary Jews
> >
> > The Israel Lobby and the "National Interest"
>
> I read the above two essays, plus his essay on american democracy. The most
> important article is the one on Jewish elites. His conclusion is dead on:
> Jews conclude from what they are taught by their religious leaders that the
> attacks on Jews can only be explained by the notion that gentiles harbor an
> irrational hatred of Jews, and that gentile antisemitism is mysterious,
> inherent and timeless.
> Why is this such an essential, almost sacred doctrine? Why for example can
> TigerBengalis never, never under any circumstance concede that antisemitism
> has ever in one single case been the result of resource competition? The
> answer is that if this were so, then the problem would be solvable - you just
> find some just resolution and antisemitism goes away. Then an essential
> dynamic that sustains and nourishes and unifies the Jewish community is lost.
> Probably Tiger is not conscious of this, but he has lived and breathed this
> culture his whole life.
> I don't know how to resolve all this of course. Spritzler's other two essays
> that I read are weaker. In particular, as Sean will be quick to point out,
> the "National Interest" article misses a massive split in the US between
> predominantly Jewish and predominantly Anglo elites. On the other hand his
> point about missing the moral aspect of the issue is well taken, I think.
> The most central issue, and the hardest for me, is the issue of democracy.
> I'm still grappling with the demographic issues, discussed e.g. by Kevin
> MacDonald in The Numbers Game: Ethnic Conflict in the Contemporary World. Is
> Israel wrong for wanting to remain a Jewish state? Was the US (pre 1967)
> wrong for wanting to preserve white european predominance? I find these
> difficult issues.
> Tim Howells
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
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