tigerbengalis wrote: As to your incredible claim that Jewish participation in anti-tsarist efforts "fueled anti-Semitism among Russian patriots," that would be laughable if it wasn't, again, a tired anti-Semitic canard. Are you completely unaware that no doubt part of the reason there was Jewish participation in anti-Tsarist movements was the longstanding vicious anti-Semitism of "Russian patriots" who periodically conducted massacres of Jewish communities? Do you have no inkling of this, or is EVERYTHING in history attributable by you to Jewish deviance and manipulations.
Instead of using an emotionally charged term like "patriots" I should have said "nationalists." My point is not that Jews are bad and Gentiles are good. My point is that it is possible for the problem of conflicting loyalties to occur within diaspora Jewish communities, and in fact this occurs regularly, causing severe problems both for those communities and the host countries. Tim Howells > > More Jew-baiting blather, tim. none of these "examples" indicate any pattern of "loyalties to the global Jewish community conflict with loyalty to one's homeland." > > As to your incredible claim that Jewish participation in anti-tsarist efforts "fueled anti-Semitism among Russian patriots," that would be laughable if it wasn't, again, a tired anti-Semitic canard. Are you completely unaware that no doubt part of the reason there was Jewish participation in anti-Tsarist movements was the longstanding vicious anti-Semitism of "Russian patriots" who periodically conducted massacres of Jewish communities? Do you have no inkling of this, or is EVERYTHING in history attributable by you to Jewish deviance and manipulations. > > Its really getting tiresome. > > > > tim_howells_1000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > LeaNder wrote: > Tim Howells wrote: > The dual loyalty problem we see now in the States has recurred many many times in history, starting long before the beginnings of modern Zionism. The problems arise when loyalties to the global Jewish community conflict with loyalty to one's homeland. > Any examples before Zionism? Am I correct you basically have McDonald in mind and US immigration? > Well, Zionism has always been around in one form or another, but if we stick with pre-Israel, we could begin with the takeover of Eastern Europe by the Soviet Union. Jews were very active and influential in the communist parties in Eastern Europe and also in the USSR. See, for example, The Generation: The Rise and Fall of the Jewish Communists of Poland by Jaff Schatz. Jews were attracted to the universalism of communist ideology, which seemed to be an antidote for anti-Semitism. However, when East Europeans saw so many in their local Jewish communities collaborating with the Soviet invaders in setting up tyrannical puppet governments, this actually fueled anti-Semitism. > Jews were also very active in the communist party in the United States and in the Soviet espionage revealed in the Venona Tapes. This includes the betrayal of our nuclear secrets to the Soviets, enabling them to develop nuclear weapons. > Prior to the establishment of the the Bolshevik regime in Russia, Jewish anger regarding anti-Semitism under the Tsar led them to fund and participate in revolutionary movements in Russia. One American mega-financier, Jacob Schiff went so far as to provide such massive funding to Japan for a war with Russia, that they were able to defeat the Russians, wreaking significant damage on the country and greatly weakening the government. See for example, The Transfer Agreement , by Edwin Black. Again, quite naturally, these things fueled anti-Semitism among Russian patriots. > Nathan Rothschild played a key roll in the defeat of Napoleon by Britain. He was assisted by an intelligence network in France that was far more effective than any capability possessed by the British government. This was based primarily on his extensive contacts in the very wealthy and powerful Jewish community in France, including family connections, which provided not only intelligence but crucial logistical support in the defeat of their own country. > Tim Howells > > > > > Is this "double loyalty" in any way connected to possibly support for > > Jewish people e.g.threatened by Holocaust or earlier by pogroms in > > Russia? Would try to help them to get out of the respective ountries > > mean double loyalty? But if you were Irish and tried to save your family > > from starvation and help them to leave for the States, that wouldn't be > > quite the same? > > > > Admittedly I may have a rather broken relation to "loyalty to my > > homeland". I am not even sure what it could possibly mean. That's no > > doubt a post WWII Germany problem. What immediately comes to mind is > > Vaterlandsverrat: treason against the home country. But that term only > > triggers images of a madly screaming German Nazi judge. > > > > I am still very interested in what attracts you so much to racist > > theories. Why do you consider it such an important field, and what would > > be the difference e.g. with the theories supported by the AEI. > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Tonight's top picks. What will you watch tonight? Preview the hottest shows on Yahoo! TV. >
