On 9/19/01 at 11:20 PM Peter Graf wrote:
>Nasta wrote:
>
>>Thanks for that info. The 68060 cleverly provides a thermal sensing
>>resistor on chip, so at least temperature can be conclusively measured.
>
>I see that you know what I mean ;-)
Well, the most recent look into the 060 manual was more a refresher course
:-)
>All 68060, even the full-blown, indeed consume significantly less power
>than the 68040. Unless you overclock 68060 chips, or have no airflow, they
>can be used without heatsink.
Yes, I was hoping the EC would use even less power, wvwn though it may be
slightly overclocked.
>Of course the mainboard can use the 68EC060, but I wouldn't call that a
Q60
>anymore. The biggest disadvantage would be, that it could no longer run
>Linux. So it would not even retain the features of the Q40. SMSQ/E also
>uses the MMU. At the moment mostly for implementation of compatibility
>features, but Tony Tebby asked for my promise that all machines have the
>MMU. I think he had future improvements like memory protection in mind.
>QDOS Classic can live without the MMU at the moment.
Yes, the original idea behing the GoldFire was to use the QXL version of
SMSQ as the basis for it, as that is the closest related hardware. In
reality, it would be something of a cross between the QXL and SGC version.
>I know that both the Q40 and Q60 could be a lot cheaper if I had
sacrificed
>MMU and FPU, and went for the cheap EC CPU's. But I saw the lack of MMU
and
>FPU could block technical progress.
In principle I agree with you. But since GF (or whatever it ends up being
called) is intended as a extension of the original QL hardware, I
considered the MMU a secondary concern at that point - this is how the 5102
was chosen for the GF. Of course, if a CPU appeared that had a MMU and FPU
at a reasonable (or better said, justifiable) price, it would be considered
- but so far only a real 68040 or a 68060 would provide that. The 040 would
have to run at it's highest clock available (or close enough) to compete
with a (at the time) cheaper 5102, but would consume too much power to be
usable on something like the GF. The 060 was simply out of reach
price-wise.
>>MCF5102 @ 40MHz, $19 a piece, minimum order 50 pieces.
>>68EC060 @ 66MHz, $10 a piece, minimum order 50 pieces.
>
>Congratulations. Your prices for the 68EC060 are a *big* miracle!
>Have you checked if the chips are OK?
As far as I can tell, they are - the supplier gave me a waranty.
>>What would you do???
>
>I would like to search if there were also full-blown chips in the list ;-)
The idea had occured to me :-) but getting a full 060 proves to be nearly
impossible, at any price - unless I go to a regular Motorola dealer. the
price is too high for the range the GF is aiming for. Of course, if someone
manages to obtain one, they can then replace the EC060 with it.
>> In short, I now have a batch of 68EC060. Using it on the GF presents
>> a couple of challenges... The name 'GoldFire' may be changed since
>> there is no more ColdFire CPU to justify the original moniker.
>
> I expected that you someday announce a '060 board. I just didn't know
> when ;-)
Quite honestly, neither did I. I had simply done the calculation with the
EC060 vs the 5102, and what came up put the 5102 back into the drawer.
>> Let me also take the oportunity to answer a question before it is asked:
>> I do not consider the Q40 or Q60 in any danger of competition at this
time
>> - the GF is still largely paperware [...]
>
> Why deny competition? Real competition is a good thing! It encourages
> technical progress and gives users a choice. Unfortunately paperware
> competition has the tendency to make users wait instead of getting (and
> thus supporting) what they can have now. "The grass is always greener on
> the other side of the fence."
All I can say is, the users are by all means encouraged to get a Q60 - in
fact, when I get the means, I will get one myself.
You have to understand that developing QL hardware is very much a passion
for me, not intended for generating profit - in fact, so far, I am waaay
into red ink with it. The idea is really to cover the costs of manufacture,
and of course, the necessary firmware, that's all.
In that venue, any notion that I would be introducing new paperware to foil
the success of someone elses hardware, is completely absurd. After all,
anyone can 'anounce' their own paperware any time - as the saying goes,
paper endures anything written on it.
> Lets face it: Some users interested in a Q40 did not get it, because they
> waited for the GoldFire. Now that the GoldFire has been cancelled, the
Q60
> will also suffer a bit from your EC060 announcement. Don't get me
wrong...
> I don't complain about your latest announcement. I just don't buy that it
> has no effect ;-)
Well, I never said it had no effect. Also, the GF has not been canceled -
in fact, it's going to be exactly the same hardware, just with a 68EC060
instead of a 5102. Even the rest of the PCB design remains unchanged.
Please do not misunderstand, I am not really promising anything - because,
frankly, I cannot promise anything (I am not going to bore you with my
personal situation here to explain why in detail). I am just trying my best
to design viable hardware, because that's what I like doing - in fact,
these days it helps a lot to keep my head from exploding :-)
To tell the truth, there is nothing I'd like more than cooperating in a
design of the 'ultimate QL'...
But I am digressing. The fact is, the Q40 and Q60 are here, now. They are
both a great product and quite possibly the key to the QL's continued
survival. Is there going to be a GF? Yes, if I have anything to say about
it - perhaps with a different name. But right now, I think I couldn't tell
you when, even using the worlds most accurate crystal ball. What I can, and
will do, is tell everyone what it is I am doing or at least trying to do. I
consider this to be fair, I am not hidin anything - and people have a
choice, to wait for an indeterminate amount of time, or buy something that
is proven right now.
>Good luck with the design!
Thanks!
ZN
