Sebastian, Relax! It is not the way to jump on people! Don't push them away! Respect, please...
Kent On Mon, 2006-03-27 at 14:39 +0200, Sebastian Werner wrote: > I'm really suprised to read such mails from you (especially the first > part), Olli. > > * qooxdoo could be more if it is currently, yes - sure. But this > requires more developers as myself. Where do we get them from? Do you > want to give up your current job and invest your time to be a full time > qooxdoo core developer? > > * The datepicker, horizontal scrolling, splitpane, progressbars are new > widgets which are currently not needed by the company I'm working for. > So they haven't priority for us currently. The community is free to > contribute new code, to fix old code and to consolidate existing > versions of the same widget (like progressbars for example). > > * The wiki and the bugtracker will be realized. Sometimes it's not that > easy inside a big company to handle such requests because of bureaucracy > for example. Also we just need to be sure if we really need a own server > or what are our exact requirements. Currently we are just waiting for a > new hosting solution to arrive. > > Your idea of contribution is already the case. I am really interested in > moving existing code of the contributed folder to our code base, but to > do this this contributed code must fulfill our requirements first. Many > stuff inside the contributed folder just don't work currently. > > Regards, > > Sebastian > > > > Oliver Vogel schrieb: > > i am not a native english speaker and so my english is sometimes not as > > good as i like it to be. So if anybody feels attacked - please don't > > feel so - it is only because of my broken english. > > > > i think, sebastian makes a good job - BUT - qooxdoo could be more that > > it actually is. if there is only one person who is the boss and this > > person has not as much time as he should have - then it is a > > disadvantege to qooxdoo. > > > > only a view questions: > > i thought, there should be a datetime - picker - where is it? > > i thought, there is a Datagrid with horizontal scrolling - where is it? > > why isn't the split-pane a real part of qooxdoo? > > what about the progressbars? > > where is the wiki (there was one - but no one is using it) > > where is the bugtracker (same as wiki) > > > > sebastian alone has not enough power to handle this all (in my oppinion > > he is doing as much as he can. but he only has 2 arms and only 8-10 > > hours a day) > > > > i think it is our part to do as much as we can to help sebastian and his > > part is to ACCEPT the help. > > > > i had a idea how to make the best out of both world's. my idea combines > > a "core" - qooxdoo -> sebastian can manage on his own and a > > "contributed" - qooxdoo we all can participate. if sebastian then decide > > to move a widget from "contributed" to "core" he can do this and my > > "magic" (the idea i had) managed this transparent, so that dhe developer > > using qooxdoo has not to think about. The first alpha of this idea is > > working without problems and i had send this to sebastian so that he can > > think about it. > > > > i know sebastian has actually no time to answer so i wait til he has. > > > > if sebastian hasn't enough time to contribute the idea - kent (or > > anybody else outh there) can you write Shell scripts working under > > cygwin (i can't and this is needed) > > > > Olli > > > > > > > > Kent Olsson schrieb: > >> Dear Izaak, > >> > >> > >>> Kent, there was nothing in your complaint for me to even quote. > >>> > >> > >> It was not a complaint! If you do not want to quote, why do you even > >> bother commenting? I would appreciate a polite discussion. > >> > >> > >>> You talk > >>> about users off-list who have complained, but about what? You talk about > >>> problems in the last 3-4 months, what were they? > >>> > >> > >> I know about 8 developers given up the project for different reasons > >> related to what I am trying to improve. I also know of 9 existing users > >> not really fully satisfied the way the project has been managed so far. > >> > >> I cite what they said... > >> 1. not letting people in > >> 2. not showing respect for their additions > >> 3. attitude in discussion > >> 4. misunderstandings not cleared out > >> 5. difficult to contribute > >> 6. do not feel welcome to contribute > >> 7. long response times > >> > >> > >>> The question: > >>> Is qooxdoo's development stunted by Sebastian's tight control? > >>> > >> > >> Yes, definitively. That is the whole issue. If a project is a one-man > >> show the risk is extremely high that it will fail. Look at the last 2 > >> weeks. He has been busy with other things. What happens if serious > >> things happen to him or his family? You never know what is behind the > >> next corner. Nothing of this I hope will happen, but who is going to > >> take on his spirit? What about all the guys who have been working with > >> the library and spent a lot of hours working with it? You have to > >> realise that this is life and not a one-man show, even though you might > >> have an idealistic view. It might be as long as it works, but if it does > >> not.... > >> > >> > >>> I've seen the community do some really good testing and bug reporting on > >>> this mailing list. However I haven't seen any large contributions, and > >>> not > >>> a single one that improves qooxdoo's core functionality. > >>> > >> > >> You address the problem! > >> > >> Exactly. Who wants to contribute if it is not taken seriously. You do > >> not think a SplitPane is worthwhile? > >> > >> I think you should show more respect for the work of the contributing > >> people. What you say is that the contributors like me, Streifert, Ricks, > >> Björn and Vogel and all the others is not even worthwhile. > >> > >> Your statement does not stimulate people to contribute! Why not find a > >> positive attitude in this? > >> > >> The only thing I am trying to do is to point at consolidation what has > >> been done and secure its future development, because first then it is > >> possible to use it professionally. > >> > >> > >>> It's also very > >>> hard to match qooxdoo's quality of code, to the point where you must > >>> almost invest a similar amount of energy as Sebastian and his company in > >>> order for your contribution to be worth considering. What does this mean > >>> for us users? We're getting a lot more of a 'professional' toolkit than > >>> we > >>> paid for!! :) > >>> > >> > >> I think personally you are wrong. Sebastians et al work has been > >> fantastic. Rome was not built on one day and not by one person. Do we > >> really want only passive users sitting down and waiting for the team of > >> Sebastian? I certainly do not want that, because the risk of using the > >> library will be too high. It is not a question about paying...sigh! It > >> is a question about doing something! > >> > >> > >>> Sebastian has been doing all he can to attract more developers, but > >>> there's nothing he can do until they show up. Have patience in this > >>> respect and the project will grow organically. > >>> > >> > >> I do not agree on this point. If you do not stimulate people to > >> contribute, the work will never be done as fast. Even worse if you > >> reject people's efforts... > >> > >> > >>> If you're dissatisfied but you don't have time to do something as large > >>> as > >>> rewriting qooxdoo's layout engine (snicker), qooxdoo would benefit most > >>> from some advocacy. Write articles to AJAX development publications. > >>> Write > >>> a wikipedia entry. Show off your qooxdoo projects. > >>> > >> > >> I have. Did you? > >> > >> You seem to have strong opinions in this area. Again, I only try to > >> consolidate the efforts and investment in a better way as it has been > >> done so far. > >> > >> Referring to your contributions, we are all welcome. Why don't you post > >> your code so we will see it at least in the contributed folder? It would > >> be very much appreciated, instead letting this only be a speech. > >> > >> > >>> What qooxdoo needs is more quality developers, not looser QA. > >>> > >> > >> What is this? No comment! It has no space in this discussion. > >> > >> Kent > >> > >>> ------------------------------------------------------- > >>> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting > >>> language > >>> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live > >>> webcast > >>> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding > >>> territory! > >>> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > >>> [email protected] > >>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > >>> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------------------------------- > >> This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language > >> that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live > >> webcast > >> and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! > >> http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > >> [email protected] > >> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel > >> > > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 > _______________________________________________ > Qooxdoo-devel mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 _______________________________________________ Qooxdoo-devel mailing list [email protected] https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/qooxdoo-devel
