To be fare, Schneider does tell you to follow the commissioning guide.
It should be in the firmware though and should be a warning. It is only
an issue with older XWP BTW.
Let us know what you end up doing Kevin please.
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
[1]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [2] [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060
On 2024-04-25 11:44 am, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hi Chris,
Thanks. Ugh it's even more irritating to learn this is obviously a
known issue. Yes, I tested gen in bypass mode system off and it is all
within spec, forgot to mention that.
Kevin
From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf
Of Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches
Sent: April-25-24 11:30 AM
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Cc: Chris Sparadeo <sparadeo.ch...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro Firmware 2.04 melting devices
Hi Kevin,
Let me chime in here. Last year I experienced something nearly
identical to what you are describing. 3 ea. XW pros in an off-grid
application. Things were working fine, but wanted to upgrade firmware
for a comms issue I was having with closed loop BMS and Insight. After
the 2.04 upgrade, when the generator would charge the system, voltage
would slowly creep up and after about 20 or so minutes, voltage would
hit around 250 VAC with a terrible high pitched grinding noise coming
from the inverters. This issue burned 3 of the homeowners UPS and
several LED fixtures.
I was 99% sure this was a generator issue. After weeks of tech support
calls, a new voltage regulator and multiple return service visits...
and eventually one brand new generator... I had to come back to the
homeowner with my tail between my legs and let them know that it wasn't
generator related. Even after reverting back to the old firmware, it
seems as though the software eventually affected the hardware. Long
story short, homeowner was done with dealing with Schneider and we
ended up swapping the Conext gear for 2ea. Sol-Ark 15ks and the system
has been issue free for almost a year. Both generator run like a top.
Sort of embarrassing to re-read this, but if I can help someone avoid
the headache I went through, it's worth it. One easy test method is to
deenergize your entire system, turn off batteries and manually bypass
your inverters. Let the generator power the loads directly and keep a
close eye on your generator frequency, voltage and THD. In my case, I
found that the generator behaved well in bypass and terribly when the
inverters were present.
Good luck on this one!
Chris Sparadeo
On Thu, Apr 25, 2024 at 1:51 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
That sounds like a generator problem. I've seen many gen sets put out
a horrible waveform under load, when battery charging. The waveform,
(if you have an O-scope) usually has a spike on the front of the wave,
and then the wave flattens significantly after. The peak should be 169
v on a 120 vac RMS sinewave. I've seen it as low as 135v on crappy
generators that are over loaded. THD is a great thing to check, but
also check your peak voltage, if you have a quick capture feature on
your meter.
It also could be related to altitude, gen sets can perform badly when
they can't get enough air. You didn't mention gen set model, or
whether the frequency was a solid 60 hz. I've seen bad things happen
when the frequency got out of spec too. I'm guessing a bad voltage
regulator on the gen set.
Ray Walters
Remote Solar
On 4/25/2024 11:24 AM, Kevin Pegg via RE-wrenches wrote:
Hi Wrenches,
Curious if anyone else has seen this issue.
New XW Pro off-grid system installed Dec 2023. Pretty standard config
for us, XW Pro, 5 kW PV, 50 kWh UnigyII battery, 8 kW high quality
diesel generator. This system ran fine all winter long - powering
customer's big RV they were living in while the house is built, Shop,
computer controlled outdoor wood boiler, domestic loads + 3 person
construction crew. Gen ran daily on auto start as we don't get much sun
Dec - Feb. No issues reported.
Couple weeks back I did a new system check up. All performing well,
happy client. Part of that service I upgraded the XW firmware from 1.09
to 2.04, and insight from 1.16 to 1.18. Gave the system a quick check,
ran gen. Lots of sun now, batteries full so didn't do a long generator
test. Yes I set the region codes for off-grid.
A week later, while I was out of town and it was not so sunny so gen
running, client and their electrician called me in a panic. Two smoke
detectors had literally melted, as well as several dimmable LED
fixtures all failed. Electrician replaced the burned up devices, only
to have the same thing repeat a few days later. Talking with them it
was only when the generator was running there were issues. Told them to
lock out gen and I will get there when I can.
Once back I attended site, fired up gen, and could hear the inverter
sounding terrible during gen charging. Lights flickering bad, and I
personally verified the smoke detectors beeping and getting warm and
the house smelled like burned plastic. I hooked up my power quality
analyser and could see the THD gradually building to over 36%. Gen
voltage was at 125/250V a bit high, so adjusted that, but no change. By
reducing the charge rate on the XW Pro to 50% was able to get the THD
down around 12% and less light flicker. But it's still too high. Image
attached shows THD with gen on original programing, then at reduced
charge rate.
Have now gone from a happy client to a pissed off client threatening
legal action for endangering their lives & a bill from the electrician.
Ugh. Having a hard time explaining this to the client why a system
previously working fine went sideways so badly. Old guy blames the
"darned computer stuff" and he's not wrong with that opinion.
At another site, similar config but larger system with dual XW's that I
upgraded to 2.04 firmware remotely few days ago and now the two
inverters are literally fighting each other under generator charge -
one load building to +6 kW and one (minus)6 kW.
Sure makes me reluctant to upgrade firmware on systems that are working
fine.
Any suggestions?
Kevin
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