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I recently moderated a student-faculty discussion on same-sex marriage here at St. John's, and when I floated the idea that the tension might dissipate if government would recognize civil unions and get out of the marriage business, leaving it to religious communities, the student resistance to that idea was vehement and virtually unanimous. Almost every student favored same-sex marriage, but they also strongly favored the idea of government marriage. As one student explained, "I don't want a government union, I want to be married." Marriage, as marriage, carries a lot of power. The idea of cleanly separating religious marriage from state-recognized relationship is appealing, but a political non-starter, in my view.
Rob Vischer
-----Original Message-----
Paul, et al:
I know others have written about this, but at what point did we come to view marriage as only or primarily a religious action or institution? Surely lots of cultures have had marriages which were not religious (?) And don't many people today want their marriage to be recognized by the state as a marriage, even when they are not religious?
Richard Dougherty
Paul Finkelman wrote:
> James makes a good point, and should be taken a step further; have the > governemtn get out of the marriage business. Let religious institutions > perform marriage and have the government regulate civil unions for all > people; civil unions are contracts that cover property, child support > and rearing, custody, end of life decisions, etc. All the proper > jurisdiction of the state; "marriage" is a relgiious action that should > not involve the state. This avoids the "separate but equal" fear of > Jean Dudley > > Paul Finkelman > > Jean Dudley wrote: > > > > On Mar 15, 2005, at 1:02 PM, James Maule wrote: > > > >> Civil birth registration and baptisms/christenings are separate. So, > >> too, are death registrations and funerals/memorial services. Why not > >> separation of marriage and whatever one wants to call state sanctioning > >> of pairing? > >> > >> Jim Maule > > > > > > Three words: "Separate but equal". > > > > Marriage is both religious and civil. In contemporary usage, it denotes > > those who have undergone either civil or religious ceremonies to > > solemnize their relationship. What you are proposing is a shift away > > from marriage as a civil right as well as a religious ceremony. > > > > Of course, the current model is to my right; Vermont has "civil unions" > > as well as marriage. While mixed-gender couples are allowed to have > > civil unions, same-sex couples are not allowed to have marriages. > > Further, I'm not sure federal government will recognize civil unions in > > place of marriage. If they do, I'd be willing to bet they don't extend > > federal marriage rights to gay couples who have joined civilly. > > > > Jean Dudley > > http://jeansvoice.blogspot.com > > Future Law Student > > > > _______________________________________________ > > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see > > http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as > > private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are > > posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly > > or wrongly) forward the messages to others. > > -- > Paul Finkelman > Chapman Distinguished Professor > University of Tulsa College of Law > 3120 East 4th Place > Tulsa, Oklahoma 74104-2499 > > 918-631-3706 (office) > 918-631-2194 (fax) > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _______________________________________________ > To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu > To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw > > Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
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_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw
Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
