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Well, as long as Rick is invoking what "many
students of the Bible" think about "true" sexual union, I think it's worth
pointing out that in his original post in this thread, Rick quoted the first
five paragraphs of today's Boston globe story. But there's a sixth
paragraph, too, which Rick neglected to show us. It reads as
follows:
Eight members of Catholic Charities board later
stepped down in protest of the bishops' stance. The 42-member board
had voted unanimously in December to continue considering gay
households for adoptions.
Apparently those 42 members of the Catholic Charities Board are not
the sorts of "students of the Bible" that Rick has in mind.
P.S. Just to be clear -- I am
not suggesting that Catholic Charities should abide by the (unanimous)
judgment of its Board, rather than the decree of the Bishops.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 5:12
PM
Subject: Re: Catholic Charities Not
Bending the Knee to Baal
I don't want to argue Catholic (or Protestan)t theology on list.
Let me just say that many students of the Bible believe that it is not so
much what the Bible says is evil that defines marriage as a one-flesh,
dual-gender relationship. Rather, it is what the Bible says is the
good of marriage and of true sexual union.
Are their any examples in the Bible in which same-sex "marriages" or
homosexual families are displayed as an ideal of sexual union and
family life? In its adoption ministry, the Church is concerned about what is
the good of family life for children, not whether to stone sinners for sexual
sins.
Rick
Steven Jamar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I
suppose it is about time to start stoning people to death as t! aught in the
old testament . . . .
As noted by Bobby Lifkin, perhaps the gulf is just too wide.
Outsiders see gross and inexplicable inconsistencies that insiders see as
obviously correct and consistent positions.
I think the Solomon Amendment is a good analogy in pointing out how one
does not want to need to conform to norms established by the state or others
-- but we do so -- The military exclusion of gays is somewhat like racial
discrimination by private firms, but there are at least two
differences: private v. public; and it is the military.
Steve
On Mar 11, 2006, at 1:07 PM, Paul Finkelman wrote:
Rick; aren't you cherry picking? There is
one line in Lev. restated in Deut. saying men should not li! e down with
men, like women. The Bible devotes far more effort to ordering the
execution of witches or dietary rules or how to conduct animal burnt
offerings. It is hard to see how you think homosexuality is so
central to Biblical law. Isn't this really about
politics?
Rick Duncan wrote:
Bobby: I am not a Catholic theologian (but the current Pope is a
very serious theological scholar). But a very quick answer, based upon
my knowledge of Scripture, is to say that homosexuality, unlike
race, strikes at the very essence of the Created Order, from
Genesis 1 to the teachings of Jesus in the New Testament.
I would leave my church and join another, if my
church suddenly discovered that the Bible's teachings
about human sexuality and marriage and family were no longer true. In my
opinion, my church woul! d no longer be a "Christian" church if
it adopted such a theology. This, of course, is exactly what is
happening in some mainline Protestant churches today. The issue is
whether we should believe God's moral teachings or the moral teachings
of secular elites. That is an easy choice for me, as it appears to be
for Benedict XVI.
Cheers, Rick
!
In a message dated 3/11/2006 10:17:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
My point--which focused only on the religious liberty
issue-- was that when faced with a choice between obeying God
or Caesar, the Church must obey God. That is what the Church did in
this case. It chose to get out of the adoption ministry rather
than stay in and disobey God. That is clearly the right
decision--indeed the only decision--for a religious body to make.
(boldface added)
We know that
religions evolve even in fundamental ways. The Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Saints once had a prohibition (I think) against blacks
becoming bishops. I suspect such changes have occurred in other
religions also. If so, why is this the "only decision" for a Church to
make? Why isn't another conceivable position to rethink the Church's
opinion of this ma! tter? I'm not suggesting that the Catholic church
is likely to do so, but then what is it about the Catholic Church (and
perhaps certain kinds of religions generally) that make it impossible
for them to respond to changes in law, customs, or non-Catholic
morality with the attitude expressed by "Well, let's examine the
issue." My question is not only whether should the Church adopt
this attitude, but what about the Church prevents it from taking this
proposal seriously?!
Bobby
Robert Justin Lipkin
Professor of Law
Widener
University School of
Law
Delaware _______________________________________________
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Rick Duncan
Welpton Professor of Law
University of Nebraska
College of Law
Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either
Galahad or! Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand
Miracle
"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed,
debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner
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_______________________________________________ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
-- Paul Finkelman Chapman Distinguished Professor of Law Un!
iversity
of Tulsa College of Law 3120 East 4th Place Tulsa, OK 74104-3189 918-631-3706 (office) 918-631-2194 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
_______________________________________________
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--
Prof. Steven D. Jamar
vox: 202-806-8017
Howard University School of Law
fax: 202-806-8428
Nothing worth doing is completed in our
lifetime,
Therefore, we are saved by
hope.
Nothing true or beautiful or good makes
complete sense in any immediate context of history;
Therefore, we are saved by
faith.
Nothing we do, however virtuous, can be
accomplished alone.
Therefore, we are saved by
love.
No virtuous act is quite a virtuous from
the standpoint of our friend or foe as from our own;
Therefore, we are saved by the final form
of love which is forgiveness.
Reinhold Neibuhr
_______________________________________________
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Rick Duncan
Welpton Professor of Law
University of Nebraska
College of Law
Lincoln, NE 68583-0902
"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad
or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle
"I will
not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered."
--The Prisoner
Relax. Yahoo! Mail virus
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_______________________________________________
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