Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Hi Rafal, If it is virgin oil from the supermarket, you should not worry about water. I had the same problem in my early batches, and I think it is the lye. do some additional test batches with more and more lye. This eay you have an idea and a feel for the process. What you should look for is a perfect wash test. Increase the lye in the batch until you can shake the hell out of it in the wash test and still get perfect separation within minutes. This is what I would be doing. Kind reg. Andrew - Original Message - From: EMRE ELMAS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you probably know, approximately 95 - 97 % of the reaction is completed in the first 35 minutes, so you do not have to wait for 2 hours. Also the alcohol boils at 65 C and the closer you get to that point, the more alcohol you will lose at the time you need it the most for the reaction. This prevents you to complete the reaction 100 %. As I mentioned above if you just watch the content of water and the other impurities in the oil you will be fine. Hopefully the information works for you. I am looking forward to hear from you soon. Best wishes, Emre ELMAS Mobile: +90 533 517 72 45 From: Rafal Szczesniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:31:26 +0200 Hi, Recently I've came through problems with testing a cheap virgin oil in my test processor which every time ended up with incomplete reactions (emulsion problems). I did make the process longer (2 hours) and at higher temperature (60-63 degC) - still nothing, though by product separation is very nice. Today, I tried to titrate the oil and - to my surprise - it took 0.925ml of KOH solution. This was my first experience with titration, so I can also tell that the phenolophtalein solution turned pale (but noticable) magenta for about 15 secs (as described at JtF) after 0.925ml. After adding 1.05ml the colour got more intensive for longer time. My main question is - is it normal in case of cheap oils ? I suppose they contain (as other oils) some amount of FFAs, but so much ? Additional matter is whether I got titration right. I mean, interpreting the colours. I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong in the process, so any help is appreciated. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps
All new on road vehicles manufactured, for use in the US, in model year 2007 and up must have catalytic converts on them to help reduce exhaust emissions. That includes 18 wheelers. The high sulfur content will plug them; the ULSD will allow the use. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vin Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:37 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps Looks like what happened with leaded vs. unleaded gasoline fuel is happening with diesel... http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/biodiesel/ulsdupdate.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What the bleep -was galloway
Yes and Jagadis Chandra Bose was experimenting with milimeter waves (
60 GHZ radio waves) back in the 1890's before Marconi and Otto
Lilienthal was flying under control hundreds of times in the 1890's
before the Wright Brothers..but history remembers only certain ones
eh? What's up with that?
Joe
Michael Redler wrote:
"Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or
Westinghouse or Marconi."
Damn! I didn't even know the modern world was invented.
- Redler (average person)
Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I am not a fan of that Ramtha person. She is quite egotistical.
But I would not dismiss the whole film out of hand. Some
interesting comments were made that are valid.
Remember these people tried to explain the "unexplainable" at
least using the frame of reference of the man in the street.
Try explaining the federal reserve to the average person. They
may surprise you with the difficulty they have with some far simpler
concepts than what "bleep" was trying to address.
As for Ramtha remember people dont want magic, they demand it.
A successful club owner told me that. I think he is correct.
Modern science is full of showmanship and misrepresentation as
well.
Edison gets credit for Tesla's work and so on. Tesla invented
the modern world far more than Edison or Westinghouse or Marconi. What
does the average person know though?
We arent a tenth as clever as we think we are.
Kirk
Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here
is a link to an entry in the skeptic's dictionary about the producer of
that movie. Have a read and do a check on the 'experts' that appeared
in that movie to see what their peers have to say about them if you
want to have a good laugh.
http://skepdic.com/channel.html
Too funny!
Joe
MK DuPree wrote:
Hi D...thank you.
Say, thank you too for alerting me way back when to the video What
the Bleep Do We Know? Outstanding. Will be watching again.
Mike
-
Original Message -
From:
D. Mindock
To:
biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent:
Friday, August 11, 2006 1:51 AM
Subject:
Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou can
Mike,
See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_alladdress=364x1828245which has a blurb plus links.
Peace, D. Mindock
-
Original Message -
From:
MK DuPree
To:
biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent:
Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:20 PM
Subject:
[Biofuel] {Disarmed} Re: George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou can
Let me also add
this note. I haven't checked the Pentagon site for this info. Maybe
someone else would care to research it and verify. But here you. --
Mike DuPree
http://english.people.com.cn//200608/09/eng20060809_291225.html
40,000 U.S. soldiers have deserted
from military since 2000: report
printResizeButton();
Some 40,000 personnel from all branches of the
U.S. military have deserted since 2000, U.S. media quoted Pentagon
sources as saying Tuesday.
From the total, more than half had served in the
U.S. Army, according to the report.
Anti-war organizations said that the mass
desertions were due to the strong resistance to war which is more
prevalent than the military has openly admitted.
"They (U.S. military) lied in Vietnam about the amount of opposition to the war
and they're lying now," said Eric Seitz, an attorney who represents
Army Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse to join
his brigade when it was sent to Iraq
last month. He is now under military custody in Fort Lewis, Washington.
A 2002 Army report said that desertion was
fairly constant but "tends to worsen during wartime."
Source: Xinhua
[snip]
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Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Rafal, 1 - 2L test batches w. virgin oil . Good 99% pure KOH V. Good (If you are concerned about the purity and have NaOH of known purity you can test the KOH) Temp and agitation also sound good. If there is water in the methanol you will make more soap (emulsion) and there will be less methanol --- incomplete reaction (emulsion). As I understand it, you have done test batches w virgin oil and have gotten unsatisfactory results emulsions upon washing. You are concerned about incomplete reactions. Question #1: Are you careful to exclude the glycerine byproduct from the wash? Question #2: The oil titrated at 0.925 ml of .99KOH.. This is significant. Have you run a batch with an additional .9 - 1.0 g KOH/L you got from titration? 3.5g 100%NaOH/L of oil = 4.9 g 100%KOH/L of oil Add 0.9 - 1.0 g of the KOH (from titration) you would be using 5.8 - 5.9 g of KOH/L of oil. This additional .9 -1.0 g represents an increase of 18 - 20% over the amount used for virgin oil w/o FFAs. When you consider that your KOH may be less than 99% pure, the amount needed would be even higher. This could very well be the cause of the incomplete reaction. Treat the virgin oil as if it was WVO. Include your titration results in the amount of KOH to be added and run a batch exactly as you have before. Let us know how it worked out and we'll proceed from there. Of course you could go out and buy some high quality veg oil that titrates zero, but then we would not get the answer to the puzzle. Best to you, Tom - Original Message - From: Rafal Szczesniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil On Sun, Aug 20, 2006 at 06:29:51PM -0400, Thomas Kelly wrote: Rafal, I assume you are doing 1L test batches? Correct me if I'm wrong. Yes. Actually these are 1 or 2l test batches. For agitation I use a small water pump originally designed for larger aquaria and also recently used in water cooling systems for PCs. Manufacturer says it's capacity is 700 liters per hour. Even considering higher viscosity of oil it should be enough for 5l testing container. Do you think it is ? I can provide some pictures if it helps (I've done a bit of documentation). Do you know the purity of the KOH you are using? Yes, it's 99% pure from chemical supplier, though I've noticed it's a little bit calcinated (some flakes are too white, in my opinion). I have also tried NaOH (same purity) before with the same result. I have heard of virgin oil containing some FFA. I have no experience with such oil. It's probably normal, as it sounds impossible to make fresh oil with absolutely no FFAs. The question is - what amount is 'normal' and what is definately not ? -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What the bleep -was galloway
Political correctness is part of it I think. Tesla was a maverick and Edison a mainstream guy. When JP Morgan realized what Tesla was up to with his global wireless power scheme he pulled the rug out from under Tesla. Even though Tesla invented the induction motor he died poor and alone. I think another factor is are they foreign. Perhaps Bose ran afoul of that one. We used to make fun of the Russians because any invention of worth was credited to a Russian. I suspect we do the same thing. It is not apparent to someone within the culture as you hear no conflicting argument. I remember reading a citation once about a paper on the theory of relativity. It waspublished by an Italian 2 years prior to Einsten (yes he was an immigrant - but- he was here). And as an amateur historian I know revisionism extends back through prehistory. Old anthro books have some fascinating archeology skipped by modern books. The giants excavated from
the Ohio River mounds for example. Hundreds of skeletons shipped to the Smithsonian to disappear. Shades of Indiana Jones.I remember Bose by the way and saw photos of some of his apparatus. An original thinker. Brilliant person.KirkJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes and Jagadis Chandra Bose was experimenting with milimeter waves ( 60 GHZ radio waves) back in the 1890's before Marconi and Otto Lilienthal was flying under control hundreds of times in the 1890's before the Wright Brothers..but history remembers only certain ones eh? What's up with that? JoeMichael Redler wrote:"Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or
Westinghouse or Marconi."Damn! I didn't even know the modern world was invented.- Redler (average person)Kirk McLoren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I am not a fan of that Ramtha person. She is quite egotistical. But I would not dismiss the whole film out of hand. Some interesting comments were made that are valid. Remember these people tried to explain the "unexplainable" at least using the frame of reference of the man in the street. Try explaining the federal reserve to the average person. They may surprise you with the difficulty they have with some far simpler concepts than what "bleep" was trying to address.
As for Ramtha remember people dont want magic, they demand it. A successful club owner told me that. I think he is correct. Modern science is full of showmanship and misrepresentation as well. Edison gets credit for Tesla's work and so on. Tesla invented the modern world far more than Edison or Westinghouse or Marconi. What does the average person know though? We arent a tenth as clever as we think we are.KirkJoe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is a link to an entry in the skeptic's dictionary about the producer of that movie. Have a read and do a check on the 'experts' that appeared in that movie to see what their peers have to say about them if
you want to have a good laugh.http://skepdic.com/channel.htmlToo funny!JoeMK DuPree wrote: Hi D...thank you. Say, thank you too for alerting me way back when to the video What the Bleep Do We Know? Outstanding. Will be watching again. Mike- Original Message - From: D. Mindock To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 11, 2006 1:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou canMike, See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_alladdress=364x1828245which has a blurb plus links. Peace, D. Mindock- Original Message - From: MK DuPree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 10, 2006 2:20 PM Subject: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Re: George Galloway _ Lebanon. View it whileyou canLet me also add this note. I haven't checked the Pentagon site for this info. Maybe someone else would care to research it and verify. But here you. -- Mike DuPreehttp://english.people.com.cn//200608/09/eng20060809_291225.html40,000 U.S. soldiers have deserted from military since 2000: report printResizeButton(); Some 40,000 personnel from all branches of the U.S. military have deserted since 2000, U.S. media quoted Pentagon sources as saying Tuesday. From the total, more than half had served in the U.S. Army, according to the report. Anti-war organizations said that the mass desertions were due to the strong resistance to war which is more prevalent than the military has openly admitted. "They (U.S. military) lied in Vietnam about the amount of opposition to the war and they're lying now," said Eric Seitz, an attorney who represents Army Lt. Ehren Watada, the first commissioned officer to refuse to join his brigade when it was sent to Iraq last month. He is now under military custody in Fort Lewis, Washington. A 2002 Army report said that desertion was fairly constant but "tends to worsen during wartime." Source: Xinhua [snip] ___ Biofuel mailing list
Re: [Biofuel] Blair feels let down by Bush [welcome to the club!]
Damage control. Salvaging an untenable position. Twas ever thus.Kirk"D. Mindock" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:I think BlairCo itselfisn't too bright. To recognize nowthat Bush is of low intellect is just a tad tardy, huh?Peace, D. Mindock= Report: Blair feels let down by Bush LONDON, Aug. 20 (UPI) -- British Prime Minister Tony Blair believes U.S. President George W. Bush "let him down badly" over the Mideast crisis, the Daily Mail reported Sunday. Related Headlines Lebanon crisis splitting Blair from allies (July 30, 2006) -- British Prime Minister Tony Blair's alliance with U.S. President George W. Bush during the crisis in Lebanon has alienated many of his closest ... full story Blair, Bush to discuss Mideast conflict (July 28, 2006) -- British Prime Minister Tony Blair traveled to Washington Friday for talks with U.S. President George Bush on the Israel-Hezbollah conflict. Blair ... full story British minister attacks Israeli policy (July 22, 2006) -- British Foreign Minister Kim Howells, during a stopover Saturday in Beirut, criticized both the Israeli attack on Lebanon and the U.S. position on ... full storyCiting a senior Blair government source, the newspaper said the alliance between the two leaders is in danger. "We all feel badly let down by Bush," the source said. "We thought we had persuaded him to take the Israel-Palestine situation seriously, but we were wrong. How can anyone have faith in a man of such low intellect?" The report comes as Parliament prepares to hold an unusual summer session, to allow members to question the government's handling of Israel's war with Hezbollah and examine whether the recent terror plot in Britain was linked to Blair's Iraq war policy. The newspaper said the reported rift between London and Washington is based on British anger over Bush's handling of the "road map" to peace between Israel and the Palestinians, which Bush agreed to just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. "We have been banging on at them for three years about the need to address the Palestinian problem but they just won't engage," said a senior government source. "That is one of the reasons there is such a mess now." Copyright 2006 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Do you Yahoo!? Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: EMRE ELMAS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you probably know, approximately 95 - 97 % of the reaction is completed in the first 35 minutes, so you do not have to wait for 2 hours. Also the alcohol boils at 65 C and the closer you get to that point, the more alcohol you will lose at the time you need it the most for the reaction. This prevents you to complete the reaction 100 %. As I mentioned above if you just watch the content of water and the other impurities in the oil you will be fine. Hopefully the information works for you. I am looking forward to hear from you soon. Best wishes, Emre ELMAS Mobile: +90 533 517 72 45 From: Rafal Szczesniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:31:26 +0200 Hi, Recently I've came through problems with testing a cheap virgin oil in my test processor which every time ended up with incomplete reactions (emulsion problems). I did make the process longer (2 hours) and at higher temperature (60-63 degC) - still nothing, though by product separation is very nice. Today, I tried to titrate the oil and - to my surprise - it took 0.925ml of KOH solution. This was my first experience with titration, so I can also tell that the phenolophtalein solution turned pale (but noticable) magenta for about 15 secs (as described at JtF) after 0.925ml. After adding 1.05ml the colour got more intensive for longer time. My main question is - is it normal in case of cheap oils ? I suppose they contain (as other oils) some amount of FFAs, but so much ? Additional matter is whether I got titration right. I mean, interpreting the colours. I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong in the process, so any help is appreciated. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reaction completion
Hi Scott; I notice my reactor drops a few degrees during the reaction too. I suspect this is due to that addition of methoxide which does warm a bit but is cooler than the reactor temperature for sure (but I have not bothered to do the heat calculations). Some reactions are endothermic (adsorbs energy) and some exothermic (radiates energy) but I don't know what is the case for trans esterification. Someone on the list does know though. Joe Scott wrote: Hello, I was just wondering if anyone has observed a relation of reaction temperature to reaction completion. Based on (many) batches I have run (modified appleseed design) I have always noted a decrease in temp after 1.5 - 2 hours of mixing (actually the time varies). The temp is always a decrease, and not excessive, but typically 2-4 degrees (F). I know chemical reactions produce heat (an increase I sometimes observe), but after some time I always see the temp decrease. My question is, would this be a good indication of reaction completion? Many thanks, S ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Blair feels let down by Bush [welcome to the club!]
Strange, isn't it? One possible explanation might be that the people in the Bush administration don't care about the thoughts of their allies, about the Palestinian problem, or about human suffering in any other area, or about the interests of the American people. Perhaps they are only concerned about their own power and wealth. Perhaps they feel no loyalty or obligation to the constitution or to the constitutional republic of old. I don't think that Straussians normally bother about that stuff. It's just a story for the peasants. One would think that this might have occurred to the British government by now. Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada [snip] Citing a senior Blair government source, the newspaper said the alliance between the two leaders is in danger. We all feel badly let down by Bush, the source said. We thought we had persuaded him to take the Israel-Palestine situation seriously, but we were wrong. How can anyone have faith in a man of such low intellect? The report comes as Parliament prepares to hold an unusual summer session, to allow members to question the government's handling of Israel's war with Hezbollah and examine whether the recent terror plot in Britain was linked to Blair's Iraq war policy. The newspaper said the reported rift between London and Washington is based on British anger over Bush's handling of the road map to peace between Israel and the Palestinians, which Bush agreed to just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. We have been banging on at them for three years about the need to address the Palestinian problem but they just won't engage, said a senior government source. That is one of the reasons there is such a mess now. Copyright 2006 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Jan, With well-deserved respect to you Rafal's oil titrated to .925 - 1.0 mgKOH/g of oil. This is far below the 5mgKOH/L of oil that you mention as the limit of FFA for flawless a trans-esterification. It is, however, a significant enough amount that, if excluded, could contribute to an incomplete reaction. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. While it is very difficult to achieve a complete reaction on 1L and 2L batches w/o laboratory conditions, it is possible to produce BD that will at least pass the wash test. From this starting point one can scale up slowly sealed containers . tweaking the process to produce quality fuel. Tom - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: EMRE ELMAS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you probably know, approximately 95 - 97 % of the reaction is completed in the first 35 minutes, so you do not have to wait for 2 hours. Also the alcohol boils at 65 C and the closer you get to that point, the more alcohol you will lose at the time you need it the most for the reaction. This prevents you to complete the reaction 100 %. As I mentioned above if you just watch the content of water and the other impurities in the oil you will be fine. Hopefully the information works for you. I am looking forward to hear from you soon. Best wishes, Emre ELMAS Mobile: +90 533 517 72 45 From: Rafal Szczesniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:31:26 +0200 Hi, Recently I've came through problems with testing a cheap virgin oil in my test processor which every time ended up with incomplete reactions (emulsion problems). I did make the process longer (2 hours) and at higher temperature (60-63 degC) - still nothing, though by product separation is very nice. Today, I tried to titrate the oil and - to my surprise - it took 0.925ml of KOH solution. This was my first experience with titration, so I can also tell that the phenolophtalein solution turned pale (but noticable) magenta for about 15 secs (as described at JtF) after 0.925ml. After adding 1.05ml the colour got more intensive for longer time. My main question is - is it normal in case of cheap oils ? I suppose they contain (as other oils) some amount of FFAs, but so much ? Additional matter is whether I got titration right. I mean, interpreting the colours. I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong in the process, so any help is appreciated. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Jan; Thank you very much for that tidbit of information. 0.5% is that by weight or volume? I use heat and vacuum to dry my oil prior to the process and I regulary can remove 1% v/v water from oil that looks very clear and has no liquid water at the bottom. On occasion I have been impatient with the vacuum drying and have run a batch with 'some' water content of which I have no idea but not had a problem. This is the first I have seen a definitive number offered for the limit on water content. Thank you. Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: "EMRE ELMAS" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you probably know, approximately 95 - 97 % of the reaction is completed in the first 35 minutes, so you do not have to wait for 2 hours. Also the alcohol boils at 65 C and the closer you get to that point, the more alcohol you will lose at the time you need it the most for the reaction. This prevents you to complete the reaction 100 %. As I mentioned above if you just watch the content of water and the other impurities in the oil you will be fine. Hopefully the information works for you. I am looking forward to hear from you soon. Best wishes, Emre ELMAS Mobile: +90 533 517 72 45 From: Rafal Szczesniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:31:26 +0200 Hi, Recently I've came through problems with testing a cheap virgin oil in my test processor which every time ended up with incomplete reactions (emulsion problems). I did make the process longer (2 hours) and at higher temperature (60-63 degC) - still nothing, though by product separation is very nice. Today, I tried to titrate the oil and - to my surprise - it took 0.925ml of KOH solution. This was my first experience with titration, so I can also tell that the phenolophtalein solution turned pale (but noticable) magenta for about 15 secs (as described at JtF) after 0.925ml. After adding 1.05ml the colour got more intensive for longer time. My main question is - is it normal in case of cheap oils ? I suppose they contain (as other oils) some amount of FFAs, but so much ? Additional matter is whether I got titration right. I mean, interpreting the colours. I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong in the process, so any help is appreciated. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Don't just search. Find. Check
Re: [Biofuel] {Disarmed} Fw: Rural Oregon town feels pinch of poverty
This story is also true of Brazil where rich are becoming rich and poor becoming miserable and hence street violence is growing up , there is no place in the jail an d all the money is only in the hand of the 3 percent of the population and hence other cannot do anything If there is no local development , local democracy , local biofuel , feed , feed production as the man made machine can only do all the job to explore the local resources as if the out side resource are very cheap and sustainable. Gandhi' in India has made the war against the imports of the textile and machine made technology and there also the problem of modern technology is become unsustainable.The social , ecological , economical and technological sustainability is possible where every one is included , to have place , job.Our globalized word ca make possible local development , not destroy all the local man power ,land water resources. We are working on simple integrate agroecological farming , animal production integrated with aquacuture and hey farming systems. The cecological engineering with biofuel can truly solve the real problem of poverty , unemployment's and other problems and groups like ours truely international can have greater role to play .With regrads Thanking youPannirselvam P.V2006/8/20, jason [EMAIL PROTECTED]: actually it isnt exactly a rural phenomenon. i am not sure what youconsider to be rural (population limit maybe?) but where i grew upthere were very nearly 75 people in the area in the mid 70's, and before the end of the next decade it was brutally downsized. jobs werecut, shops and factories shut down. even finding a service job was aproblem, because noone had the money to pay for services. the richest people in the QCA were living on 2$ a year (slightly under averagenormal pay scale) and they had to work horrifying hours to get that.more layoffs and some of the biggest employers going overseas just about clinched the deal for us. im not exactly sure what happened but the fallstopped -or at least slowed- long enough for some small local businessesto open within the last six or seven years. mostly technical or mechanical places, and construction, good gods the construction... theyhave nothing to sell but they insist on building places to sell FROM.it cant continue this way. it will fail, because there are moreresources going in than products coming back out. it is not just a simple matter of waste, because the whole process is waste.the people there dont care how useful anything they do is, as long asthey get their paychecks. i have been working supremely hard to findmore viable options, testing, planning, and researching what these places have to offer as far as habitat, energy, and food, and i amsurprised that what i have found has not been considered costeffective in any way.if i could produce a local energy instead of importing from out of state or country, the necessary outflow of grain would stop, and thepossibility of implementing a decent fuel/crop rotation in the outlyingareas would become real. there would be jobs again, local farmers would finally be taken care of instead of taken advantage of, and the localtendril of the monsanto plague would have no more victims...has anyone ever made a coop out of an area that size before?(now that i read this over, i realize i probably sound crazy. is it foolish to want to help your home on such a scale?)On Sun, 2006-08-20 at 18:00 -0500, D. Mindock wrote: The article focuses on a small Oregon town but I have a suspicion it's true of many rural areas. MJ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e ProcessosDEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RNCampus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Reaction completion
This is very interesting question as some ethanol based reaction are reported , not to need energy input ,and can go at lower temperature favourable but most of the reactor need energy , that is absorbing energy to release the products Pannirselvam P.VHi Scott;I notice my reactor drops a few degrees during the reaction too.I suspect this is due to that addition of methoxide which does warm a bitbut is cooler than the reactor temperature for sure (but I have notbothered to do the heat calculations).Some reactions are endothermic (adsorbs energy) and some exothermic (radiates energy) but I don't knowwhat is the case for trans esterification.Someone on the list doesknow though.JoeScott wrote:Hello,I was just wondering if anyone has observed a relation of reaction temperature to reaction completion.Based on (many) batches I have run (modified appleseed design) I havealways noted a decrease in temp after 1.5 - 2 hours of mixing (actuallythe time varies). The temp is always a decrease, and not excessive, but typically 2-4 degrees (F).I know chemical reactions produce heat (an increase I sometimesobserve), but after some time I always see the temp decrease.My question is, would this be a good indication of reaction completion? Many thanks,S___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/-- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e ProcessosDEQ – Departamento de Engenharia QuímicaCT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970http://pannirbr.googlepages.com/gpecufrnhomepage3215-3769 ramal 210casa 3215-1557 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Kind of... interesting?
So I get this cyptic email from a collegue stating the Armada he had been waiting for has finally arived. So he proceeds to describe how he went to the Armada down at the river and had a tour of the raft, brought them some cookies, chocolate, and rope and was impressed. Needless to say, I was just about as confused as you should be about now: The story: A group of people (many would say crazy) put together a raft to float down the Mississippi. Truly, any description I give cannot do justice to their own. Check it out here: http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/ the blog is the best place to start. And now that I have your (in)attention... here is the relevant part. The engineering of the raft was actually planned out and motors they crafted use VW Rabbit diesels that run on WVO: http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/?page_id=39 Considering all the depressing news, this should provide a small break from the toil and torment. -dave ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: Rural Oregon town feels pinch ofpoverty
Hi Pannirselvam, This story is also true of Brazil where rich are becoming rich and poor becoming miserable and hence street violence is growing up , there is no place in the jail an d all the money is only in the hand of the 3 percent of the population and hence other cannot do anything. I lived in Brasil for a couple years, in Recife.And married a local gal from Agua Fria. I love Brasil and wish there was a solution to the concentration of wealth. We here in the states have the same problem. And our jails are filled with moreprisons being built. We don't have favelas here yet but unless we can wrest our country back from the neo-con Republicans, it is just a matter of time. If there is no local development , local democracy , local biofuel , feed , feed production as the man made machine can only do all the job to explore the local resources as if the out side resource are very cheap and sustainable. Gandhi' in India has made the war against the imports of the textile and machine made technology and there also the problem of modern technology is become unsustainable.The social , ecological , economical and technological sustainability is possible where every one is included , to have place , job.Our globalized word ca make possible local development , not destroy all the local man power ,land water resources. Globalization so far has done much more harm than good. It is possible for this to change but corporations are mostly interested in their current stock price and gaining advantage over competitors. Morals and ethics are not part of their business plan, with the environment as something to be used/consumedin such a way as to maximize profits.My view of globalization isdim at best. We are working on simple integrate agroecological farming , animal production integrated with aquacuture and hey farming systems. I wish youmuch success. You have something truly valuable happening there. The cecological engineering with biofuel can truly solve the real problem of poverty , unemployment's and other problems and groups like ours truely international can have greater role to play . My hope is that there will be no corporate interference to your endeavors. Is the government supporting your efforts? Best wishes, D. MindockWith regrads Thanking youPannirselvam P.V 2006/8/20, jason [EMAIL PROTECTED]: actually it isnt exactly a rural phenomenon. i am not sure what youconsider to be "rural" (population limit maybe?) but where i grew upthere were very nearly 75 people in the area in the mid 70's, and before the end of the next decade it was brutally downsized. jobs werecut, shops and factories shut down. even finding a service job was aproblem, because noone had the money to pay for services. the "richest" people in the QCA were living on 2$ a year (slightly under average"normal" pay scale) and they had to work horrifying hours to get that.more layoffs and some of the biggest employers going overseas just about clinched the deal for us. im not exactly sure what happened but the fallstopped -or at least slowed- long enough for some small local businessesto open within the last six or seven years. mostly technical ormechanical places, and construction, good gods the construction... theyhave nothing to sell but they insist on building places to sell FROM.it cant continue this way. it will fail, because there are moreresources going in than products coming back out. it is not just a simple matter of waste, because the whole process is waste.the people there dont care how useful anything they do is, as long asthey get their paychecks. i have been working supremely hard to findmore viable options, testing, planning, and researching what these places have to offer as far as habitat, energy, and food, and i amsurprised that what i have found has not been considered "costeffective" in any way.if i could produce a local energy instead of importing from out of state or country, the "necessary" outflow of grain would stop, and thepossibility of implementing a decent fuel/crop rotation in the outlyingareas would become real. there would be jobs again, local farmers would finally be taken care of instead of taken advantage of, and the localtendril of the monsanto plague would have no more victims...has anyone ever made a coop out of an area that size before?(now that i read this over, i realize i probably sound crazy. is it foolish to want to help your home on such a scale?)On Sun, 2006-08-20 at 18:00 -0500, D. Mindock wrote: The article focuses on a small Oregon town but I have a suspicion it's true of many rural areas. MJ-- Grupo de Pesquisa em Engenharia de Custos e ProcessosDEQ –
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 10:08:58AM -0400, Thomas Kelly wrote: Rafal, 1 - 2L test batches w. virgin oil . Good 99% pure KOH V. Good (If you are concerned about the purity and have NaOH of known purity you can test the KOH) I know that. However, KOH that I've bought doesn't look perfectly fresh ie. it is not completely translucent, as my NaOH was a couple of months ago. Now, I have both of them slightly calcinated which shows up as a trace of dust (really, just a little bit) on the bottom of a bottle I use to mix the methoxide solution. Temp and agitation also sound good. If there is water in the methanol you will make more soap (emulsion) and there will be less methanol --- incomplete reaction (emulsion). No, the methanol is also very pure - the same supplier. I started with pure and a bit expensive chemicals, to gain more experience and avoid troubles that might be caused by urity. As I understand it, you have done test batches w virgin oil and have gotten unsatisfactory results emulsions upon washing. You are concerned about incomplete reactions. That's right. Question #1: Are you careful to exclude the glycerine byproduct from the wash? Last time I settled the mixture of ester and glycerine byproduct for 24 hours and got nice separation. I carefully removed glycerine from the bottom (similar construction to the test processor on JtF pages) _and_ I settled the ester with just a bit of byproduct on the bottom (difficult to remove completely) for the next 12 hours. Then I syphoned off a 200 ml sample for test using elastic pipe, from the middle of the container. Nice, clean and pale yellow product. My only concern is that it's not transparent, but rather cloudy - likely due to incomplete reaction. Question #2: The oil titrated at 0.925 ml of .99KOH.. This is significant. Have you run a batch with an additional .9 - 1.0 g KOH/L you got from titration? Not yet - that's why I'm asking for your opinion. After the mails I've received I'm going to try it. I tried it once, with NaOH, but I didn't add such a small amount (divided by 1.4), but rather 20% more. I was afraid of the lye calcination, so I tried to add more, according to what I read. That was probably too much - no luck and washing problems. 3.5g 100%NaOH/L of oil = 4.9 g 100%KOH/L of oil Of course, I realise that. Add 0.9 - 1.0 g of the KOH (from titration) you would be using 5.8 - 5.9 g of KOH/L of oil. This additional .9 -1.0 g represents an increase of 18 - 20% over the amount used for virgin oil w/o FFAs. When you consider that your KOH may be less than 99% pure, the amount needed would be even higher. This could very well be the cause of the incomplete reaction. Treat the virgin oil as if it was WVO. Include your titration results in the amount of KOH to be added and run a batch exactly as you have before. Let us know how it worked out and we'll proceed from there. Surely I will. Of course you could go out and buy some high quality veg oil that titrates zero, but then we would not get the answer to the puzzle. Exactly. Besides, led by curiousity, I tried to titrate a better oil I had. It was also pure rapeseed oil, just the quality was better. Titration result was .750ml or so. I wonder, what would be the result when a really fine quality oil was tested (sunflower perhaps)... -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 09:57:30AM +0200, Tonom?r Andr?s wrote: Hi Rafal, If it is virgin oil from the supermarket, you should not worry about water. Yes, that's exactly what it is. Cheap brand made for a supermarket by a known oil producer (n-th pressing of residues after they make their own good oil, probably...). I had the same problem in my early batches, and I think it is the lye. do some additional test batches with more and more lye. This eay you have an idea and a feel for the process. ok, I will. According to titration results. What you should look for is a perfect wash test. Increase the lye in the batch until you can shake the hell out of it in the wash test and still get perfect separation within minutes. This is what I would be doing. Thanks for your suggestion. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Blair feels let down by Bush [welcome to the club!]
Strange, isn't it? One possible explanation might be that the people in the Bush administration don't care about the thoughts of their allies, about the Palestinian problem, or about human suffering in any other area, or about the interests of the American people. You are right on all counts. Perhaps they are only concerned about their own power and wealth. Yes, if you're one of the elite, you are supported. If not, you are to be fleeced and controlled. Perhaps they feel no loyalty or obligation to the constitution or to the constitutional republic of old. I don't think that Straussians normally bother about that stuff. It's just a story for the peasants. Totally. The Constitution is just a go*dam*ed piece of paper. One would think that this might have occurred to the British government by now. The Brits perhaps thought that there would be honor among thieves. But BushCo likely thinks of BlairCo as bumbling wannabes/idiots, to be used. BushCo respects no one. All non-elites are to be used as cannon fodder for endless wars and as slaves. I haven't studied Strauss at all but this is what I pick up from observing Bush and his dark group of cronies. BTW, I wonder how Strauss got a free pass to warp so many minds? Peace, D. Mindock Doug Woodard St. Catharines, Ontario, Canada [snip] Citing a senior Blair government source, the newspaper said the alliance between the two leaders is in danger. We all feel badly let down by Bush, the source said. We thought we had persuaded him to take the Israel-Palestine situation seriously, but we were wrong. How can anyone have faith in a man of such low intellect? The report comes as Parliament prepares to hold an unusual summer session, to allow members to question the government's handling of Israel's war with Hezbollah and examine whether the recent terror plot in Britain was linked to Blair's Iraq war policy. The newspaper said the reported rift between London and Washington is based on British anger over Bush's handling of the road map to peace between Israel and the Palestinians, which Bush agreed to just before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq. We have been banging on at them for three years about the need to address the Palestinian problem but they just won't engage, said a senior government source. That is one of the reasons there is such a mess now. Copyright 2006 by United Press International. All Rights Reserved. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps
What does biodiesel do to the catalytic converters? No sulfur, but how about all the polyaromatic hydrocarbons?ZOn 8/21/06, Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All new on road vehicles manufactured, for use in the US, in model year 2007 and up must have catalytic converts on them to help reduce exhaust emissions. That includes 18 wheelers. The high sulfur content will plug them; the ULSD will allow the use. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of vin Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:37 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps Looks like what happened with leaded vs. unleaded gasoline fuel is happening with diesel... http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/biodiesel/ulsdupdate.pdf ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps
I assume air injection is incorporated. In that case they finish oxidising.Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does biodiesel do to the catalytic converters? No sulfur, but how about all the polyaromatic hydrocarbons?Z On 8/21/06, Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All new on road vehicles manufactured, for use in the US, in model year 2007 and up must have catalytic converts on them to help reduce exhaust emissions. That includes 18 wheelers. The high sulfur content will plug them; the ULSD will allow the use. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of vinSent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:37 AMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumpsLooks like what happened with leaded vs. unleaded gasoline fuel is happening with diesel...http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/biodiesel/ulsdupdate.pdf ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min.___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] plug in hybrid insight?
Yeah, researching the drive systems more, it seems that the Prius system, because it is capable of running from electric alone, could be used this way, whereas the Insight, having the motor just assisting the gasoline motor in accelerating and allowing a smaller engine, can't run on electric alone. So I'm not sure that it would be possible, the way the power transfer is set up in the honda system. But he doesn't want a prius because it's too large, and he already has the insight anyway ZOn 8/19/06, Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's a great question Zeke.I've been almost conditioned to automatically look at the Prius for such a conversion. MikeZeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone on this list know if it is possible to convert a honda insight to plug in hybrid. I know several people have made plug in priuses, but I was under the impression that the insight system is different and can't run on electric only. Actually, I'm not even sure if the plug in priuses operating in electric only mode, or if it just boosts the gas mileage for a while to have charged it from the grid. I've got a friend with an insight, and he'd like to be able to charge it from his PV system instead of having to use gasoline. Is this possible? Zeke ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps
I have no clue what the effects are or any other little secrets used to make it more efficient. I would guess that bio-diesel does not cause a problem, or that the converters for diesel are different. Logan Vilas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kirk McLoren Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 3:34 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps I assume air injection is incorporated. In that case they finish oxidising. Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does biodiesel do to the catalytic converters? No sulfur, but how about all the polyaromatic hydrocarbons? Z On 8/21/06, Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All new on road vehicles manufactured, for use in the US, in model year 2007 and up must have catalytic converts on them to help reduce exhaust emissions. That includes 18 wheelers. The high sulfur content will plug them; the ULSD will allow the use. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vin Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:37 AM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps Looks like what happened with leaded vs. unleaded gasoline fuel is happening with diesel... http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/biodiesel/ulsdupdate.pdf ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. http://us.rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/taglines/postman7/*http://us.rd.yahoo.com/ev t=39666/*http://messenger.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
I have found if you use a 2 liter bottle for the test batch and put a sipping nipple as found on sports bottles turn the test batch bottle upside down let it settle for the 12 to 24 hours the glycerin will drain out into a jar very well. I don't stop at thee end of the glycerin. I get a few ounces of bio then stop. I have never had a failed test batch this way at least not for glycerin being in the mix. Good luck Derick -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rafal Szczesniak Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 12:22 PM To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil On Mon, Aug 21, 2006 at 10:08:58AM -0400, Thomas Kelly wrote: Rafal, 1 - 2L test batches w. virgin oil . Good 99% pure KOH V. Good (If you are concerned about the purity and have NaOH of known purity you can test the KOH) I know that. However, KOH that I've bought doesn't look perfectly fresh ie. it is not completely translucent, as my NaOH was a couple of months ago. Now, I have both of them slightly calcinated which shows up as a trace of dust (really, just a little bit) on the bottom of a bottle I use to mix the methoxide solution. Temp and agitation also sound good. If there is water in the methanol you will make more soap (emulsion) and there will be less methanol --- incomplete reaction (emulsion). No, the methanol is also very pure - the same supplier. I started with pure and a bit expensive chemicals, to gain more experience and avoid troubles that might be caused by urity. As I understand it, you have done test batches w virgin oil and have gotten unsatisfactory results emulsions upon washing. You are concerned about incomplete reactions. That's right. Question #1: Are you careful to exclude the glycerine byproduct from the wash? Last time I settled the mixture of ester and glycerine byproduct for 24 hours and got nice separation. I carefully removed glycerine from the bottom (similar construction to the test processor on JtF pages) _and_ I settled the ester with just a bit of byproduct on the bottom (difficult to remove completely) for the next 12 hours. Then I syphoned off a 200 ml sample for test using elastic pipe, from the middle of the container. Nice, clean and pale yellow product. My only concern is that it's not transparent, but rather cloudy - likely due to incomplete reaction. Question #2: The oil titrated at 0.925 ml of .99KOH.. This is significant. Have you run a batch with an additional .9 - 1.0 g KOH/L you got from titration? Not yet - that's why I'm asking for your opinion. After the mails I've received I'm going to try it. I tried it once, with NaOH, but I didn't add such a small amount (divided by 1.4), but rather 20% more. I was afraid of the lye calcination, so I tried to add more, according to what I read. That was probably too much - no luck and washing problems. 3.5g 100%NaOH/L of oil = 4.9 g 100%KOH/L of oil Of course, I realise that. Add 0.9 - 1.0 g of the KOH (from titration) you would be using 5.8 - 5.9 g of KOH/L of oil. This additional .9 -1.0 g represents an increase of 18 - 20% over the amount used for virgin oil w/o FFAs. When you consider that your KOH may be less than 99% pure, the amount needed would be even higher. This could very well be the cause of the incomplete reaction. Treat the virgin oil as if it was WVO. Include your titration results in the amount of KOH to be added and run a batch exactly as you have before. Let us know how it worked out and we'll proceed from there. Surely I will. Of course you could go out and buy some high quality veg oil that titrates zero, but then we would not get the answer to the puzzle. Exactly. Besides, led by curiousity, I tried to titrate a better oil I had. It was also pure rapeseed oil, just the quality was better. Titration result was .750ml or so. I wonder, what would be the result when a really fine quality oil was tested (sunflower perhaps)... -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps
No, there is no need for additional air as diesel exhaust is oxidizing under all conditions. Most of the flow throughconverters are of the type that are extremely efficient at removing hydrocarbons, including the many hydrocarbons that are adsorbed onto the particulate. There is a significant reduction in the SOF (soluble organic fraction) which covers most of the polyaromatic hydrocarbons. The carbon fraction (dry soot) is virtually untouched and is emitted, but the mass of total particulateis some 30% less, depending on the specific engine. There are also particulate traps, which physically trap the particulate. These are fussy as they need to regenerate, or burn themselves clean. The engine exhaust is not normally hot enough so several methods are usedelectric heating, intake air throttling, mistiming or extra shot changes to the fuel injection on electronic controlled engines or the use of catalysts. The most efficient catalyst system is excellent at keeping the filters clean, but has absolutely no tolerance for sulphur, hence the progressive drive to lower sulphur. Decent biodiesel works well with both the flow through as well as the particulate traps. Regards Fred Enga, who spend years developing these things -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kirk McLorenSent: Monday, August 21, 2006 1:34 PMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumpsI assume air injection is incorporated. In that case they finish oxidising.Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What does biodiesel do to the catalytic converters? No sulfur, but how about all the polyaromatic hydrocarbons?Z On 8/21/06, Logan Vilas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: All new on road vehicles manufactured, for use in the US, in model year 2007 and up must have catalytic converts on them to help reduce exhaust emissions. That includes 18 wheelers. The high sulfur content will plug them; the ULSD will allow the use. Logan Vilas Bio-Fuel Enterprises, Inc. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of vinSent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 8:37 AMTo: biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] sticker on diesel pumps Looks like what happened with leaded vs. unleaded gasoline fuel is happening with diesel... http://www.kentuckycleanfuels.org/biodiesel/ulsdupdate.pdf ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] {Disarmed} Corruption, insurgent attacks net fuel shortage
Iraqis face energy crisis, despite oil riches Corruption, insurgent attacks net fuel shortage By RAWYA RAGEH, Associated Press August 14, 2006 BAGHDAD - Under a scorching sun, Baghdad taxi driver Sameer Abdul Razzaq wraps a wet towel around his head and waits for gasoline in a line stretching a mile. "I've been here since 6 a.m.," he said Sunday. "If I'm lucky, I'll get to the end of the line by sunset. I actually think I might end up spending the night here." TARGET="_blank" HREF="" SRC="" WIDTH=300 HEIGHT=250 BORDER=0/A This is the capital of what should be one of the world's great oil producers, but corruption and insurgent attacks have Iraqis mired in their worst fuel shortage since Saddam Hussein was ousted, with black market gasoline costing as much as $4 a gallon. The official price is $1 a gallon, but the fuel is often unavailable, forcing most Iraqi drivers to shell out the higher price to streetside vendors or wait in long lines at gas stations. The shortage affects other petroleum products, too. A cylinder of cooking gas costs about $18 on the black market - double the price a few months ago. All that causes ripple effects that compound problems facing an Iraqi public. Taxi drivers have quadrupled their fares. Higher delivery costs for food and other essentials are passed on to consumers - many already living on the margin. "We're going to switch to a small kerosene stove instead," housewife Amaal Ahmed Jabbar said after paying premium prices for cooking fuel. The irony is especially bitter in a country that sits atop the world's third-largest proven petroleum reserves. Iraq's estimated 115 billion barrels are exceeded in the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries only by Saudi Arabia and Iran. Iraq has been plagued by periodic fuel shortages since the 2003 U.S.-led invasion. But the current crisis comes amid higher demand for fuel to power generators and air-condition homes and offices, with summer temperatures topping 115 degrees. The shortage is so bad that even a gas station inside the Green Zone, home of major Iraqi government offices and the U.S. Embassy, ran out of fuel Sunday afternoon. The government blames the problem on insurgent attacks on pipelines and other infrastructure, which snarl the distribution system. "I realize that people are really suffering from the lack of energy and electricity," President Jalal Talabani said Sunday. "But this is not the fault of the government ... terrorists have blown up many power stations as well as the pipeline" that delivers crude oil from the northern fields around Kirkuk to the main refinery in Beiji, 155 miles north of Baghdad. The Beiji facility had a prewar capacity to refine 2 million to 2.25 million gallons of gasoline a day. It is now producing less than 260,000 gallons of gasoline a day, Oil Ministry spokesman Assem Jihad said, citing electricity shortages and threats to refinery operators as the main sources of the problem. Last week, the main oil storage facility in Latifiyah, about 20 miles south of Baghdad, had to shut down after workers received death threats. More than 250 Oil Ministry officials, workers and security guards have been killed since the collapse of the previous regime, according to the ministry. The U.S. Energy Information Administration estimated that 315 major attacks have struck pipelines, electricity plants and other energy infrastructure between April 2003 and June. The attacks have left the country struggling to restore oil production to prewar levels of about 2.5 million to 3 million barrels a day. As of May, production stood at about 1.9 million barrels a day, U.S. officials said. The International Relations and Security Network, a Swiss group that promotes exchanges of information among security professionals, also blamed widespread corruption within the Oil Ministry. Last year, 450 Oil Ministry employees were fired for illegally selling oil and petroleum products. In an April report, the Oil Ministry's inspector general Ali al-Alaak estimated about $4 billion worth of petroleum products were smuggled out of Iraq last year, including gasoline and crude oil siphoned from pipelines. All that has added to the deep sense of pessimism among Iraqis. "The ministers are busy with one thing only, and that is touring the world as we wallow here in the Middle Ages," said lawyer Ahmed Mohammed Ali, 55. "Everyday I take a container to the gas station to get some fuel to run my generator. It takes me up to five hours and sometimes all I get is humiliation by the security personnel in charge of the station." Copyright 2006, Associated Press. All rights reserved. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Blair feels let down by Bush [welcome to the club!]
Of course they will do nothing, 90% of their senate is Jew. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Ethanol use
Hi all It's slowly turning to spring down here in the southern hemisphere, and a young man's thoughts turn to what he's going to get up to in those long summer evenings. Me, I think only of biofuel! I am having good progress and results with methanol but my long term plan is to be completely self- sufficient and ferment my own ethanol to use in my reaction. I will first buy some denatured ethanol to practice on, and I have read what is on the JtF web-site and realise I will need to really dewater my oil, use more ethanol than methanol etc. I would like to know, however, if I can increase the temperature of the reaction mixture to cut down the time taken for the reaction as ethanol boils at 78C rather than 65C, and if there are any other hints/ tips people can give through their experience of this reaction. Thanks Charles List -- -- This email was sent using Telecom SchoolZone. www.schoolzone.net.nz This email has been scanned for viruses by Telecom SchoolZone, but is not guaranteed to be virus-free. -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Blair feels let down by Bush [welcome to the club!]
Are your trying to say that The House of Lords is 90% Jewish? Clive Marks wrote: Of course they will do nothing, 90% of their senate is Jew. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] a climate repair manual
A Climate Repair Manual Global warming is a reality. Innovation in energy technology and policy are sorely needed if we are to cope http://www.sciam.com/print_version.cfm?articleID=000EABE4-BDFF-14E5-BDFF83414B7F ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Kind of... interesting?
ill have to keep an eye on these guys, they should be traipsing through my hometown in a few weeks...it ought to be interesting. On Mon, 2006-08-21 at 14:13 -0500, DHAJOGLO wrote: So I get this cyptic email from a collegue stating the Armada he had been waiting for has finally arived. So he proceeds to describe how he went to the Armada down at the river and had a tour of the raft, brought them some cookies, chocolate, and rope and was impressed. Needless to say, I was just about as confused as you should be about now: The story: A group of people (many would say crazy) put together a raft to float down the Mississippi. Truly, any description I give cannot do justice to their own. Check it out here: http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/ the blog is the best place to start. And now that I have your (in)attention... here is the relevant part. The engineering of the raft was actually planned out and motors they crafted use VW Rabbit diesels that run on WVO: http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/?page_id=39 Considering all the depressing news, this should provide a small break from the toil and torment. -dave ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Kind of... interesting?
DHAJOGLO wrote: So I get this cyptic email from a collegue stating the Armada he had been waiting for has finally arived. So he proceeds to describe how he went to the Armada down at the river and had a tour of the raft, brought them some cookies, chocolate, and rope and was impressed. Needless to say, I was just about as confused as you should be about now: The story: A group of people (many would say crazy) put together a raft to float down the Mississippi. Truly, any description I give cannot do justice to their own. Check it out here: http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/ the blog is the best place to start. And now that I have your (in)attention... here is the relevant part. The engineering of the raft was actually planned out and motors they crafted use VW Rabbit diesels that run on WVO: http://www.missrockaway.org/wordpress/?page_id=39 Considering all the depressing news, this should provide a small break from the toil and torment. -dave Glad to hear they're under way. I think I might have had some influence on the choice of the Rabbit diesel engines. Jeff Stark wrote me about electric propulsion in early June, but I couldn't come up with a viable, low budget e-drive solution for them long distance in a matter of days. That's when I suggested the VW diesels and biodiesel. Some days you just do what you can and hope for the best. Looks like they're having fun. -- Darryl McMahon http://www.econogics.com It's your planet. If you won't look after it, who will? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use
On Aug 21, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Charles List wrote: I would like to know, however, if I can increase the temperature of the reaction mixture to cut down the time taken for the reaction as ethanol boils at 78C rather than 65C. You probably could, but the separation of glycerol takes such a long time with ethanol (hours maybe), and the reactants are all in solution that whole time (completely clear, single phase), that you probably don't need more than the usual heating to get the reaction to go as far as it will. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
