Re: [9fans] Re: ctrans - Chinese language input for Plan9
On July 26, 2022 3:29:15 PM GMT+03:00, a...@sdf.org wrote: >> Silvan Jegen wrote: >> ktrans seems to be quite different actually. According to the >> documentation it uses the Cangjie input method >I was really surprised when I read this and of course, this is not true. I >suppose you meant ctrans. Ah, my bad. I must have confused the two. Cheers, Silvan > https://git.sansfontieres.com/~romi/ktrans/tree/front/item/README.kenji -- Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tba6835d445e07919-Ma5d0eb2bc4af1d14fe1e7e30 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Re: ctrans - Chinese language input for Plan9
andp...@foxmail.com wrote: > On Friday, 22 July 2022, at 2:09 PM, Silvan Jegen wrote: > > Ah, I didn't know that! I also don't know anyone who does office work > > in a place where traditional Chinese characters are used though ... > > They would use RIME, https://rime.im a free software widely > recognized among Chinese users who are not satisfied with default > Pinyin. But unfortunately that thing is written in C++ so making a > port is unliky. Funnily enough I use Rime on my Linux machine to input Simplified Chinese. I honestly just switched a Rime input setting to something that looks like pinyin but the suggestions seem better to me than the old IME that I used ... I should probably invest some time in understanding how the thing actually is supposed to be used (documentation in English seems sparse and my Chinese sucks). -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tba6835d445e07919-M9e59e41273b1269646ab8584 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Re: ctrans - Chinese language input for Plan9
Heyhey! Sebastian Higgins wrote: > A few things: > > 1. Cangjie is still widely used in places that uses traditional > Chinese characters. You would still be required to be good at it if > you apply for text-heavy office jobs in these places. Ah, I didn't know that! I also don't know anyone who does office work in a place where traditional Chinese characters are used though ... > 2. Radical-based/shape-based methods were extremely popular when > the prediction technology wasn't as good (which means Pinyin was > significantly slower). It wasn't until late 2000s to early 2010s > before this situation has changed. At least in Japan I have never met anyone using a radical-based/shape-based input method. I have not even met anyone using direct Kana input, only through romaji. That said, may be an earlier generation used it more commonly ... > 3. Pinyin without prediction is slow because of what we called the > 重码 (lit. "overlap of encoding") problem. For Pinyin the encoding > overlaps because many characters may have the same Pinyin; the purpose > of all shape-based method is to reduce the overlap problem and thus > increase the input speed. Yeah, it's due to the high homophones count. Only the tones differ and these are not supported in pinyin input methods (as far as I know ...) > 4. ctrans uses cangjie because (1) implementing shape-based methods > was much, much more simpler than phonetic-based methods because most > (if not all) of the job is table lookup; (2) if we were to use the > same UI (or lack thereof) as ktrans the overlap-of-encoding problem > of Pinyin would very probably drive you nuts when using it; (3) it is > the input method the author uses, however I do admit using Cangjie for > simplified Chinese input is kinda peculiar. > > Source: me who is a native Chinese speaker and have learned Wubi > (a shape-based method for simplified Chinese) in primary school. Thanks for the insights. I appreciate it! Cheers, Silvan -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tba6835d445e07919-M977f609261cd764b55ad5dbf Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Re: ctrans - Chinese language input for Plan9
a...@sdf.org wrote: > > I stumbled onto an instructive video on youtube not that long ago. I'm > > sure there are a few you'll be able to search for. If I understand > > correctly, it's a combination of entering the phoneme by the nearest > > Latin letter, then select from a diminishing range of suitable options > > on the screen. > > There are other input methods based on the shape of the > characters. Some are better with traditional Chinese characters, > other with simplified characters, it's complicated... Let see if some > Chinese comrade share with us his daily life experience. The Japanese > is input writing kana directly with a Japanese keyboard or by romaji > with roman characters on western keyboards (ka -> か, ) and then > transformed to kanji when necessary. There are different IMEs, but the > principle is the same. I suppose that ktrans is similar, I haven't > tried jet. ktrans seems to be quite different actually. According to the documentation it uses the Cangjie input method [0] which is based on the so called "radicals". These are some more basic elements that the Chinese characters are made of (note that the "radicals" chosen for Cangjie are not identical to the 214 radicals that are commonly used to classify Chinese characters. For the latter see [1]). Every one of these 24 Cangjie radicals gets mapped to an ASCII character and their combinations then uniquely identify a Chinese character (the wikipage at [0] illustrates the approach very well). This input method seems to be old and I have never seen a Chinese person use it. From what I understand, most Chinese people nowadays just write text in Pinyin (a latin transliteration of the Chinese pronounciation) and then the IME helps you choose the correct combination of Chinese characters (potentially taking the context of the text already written into account). Cheers, Silvan [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cangjie_input_method [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kangxi_radical -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tba6835d445e07919-M9589c3997fe9cf5b52b599d5 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
