Re: [9fans] Throwing in the Towel

[Steve Simon]

i  can only speak from experience, but i have had fossil and venti running on a 
single ssd (on a radpberry pi) for 5 years now - no rotating discs left at home.

i have mtime changes and ephemeral snapshots turned off to reduce the update 
rate. i chose a sandisk card, and take backups just in case…

so far so good.

-Steve

> On 29 May 2024, at 4:39 am, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
> Finally,. SSDs just die over time. Especially if they are
> not powered on and refreshing. JEDEC specs say that they
> should retain data for 1 year unplugged when stored at 30
> degrees celsius, assuming the internet isn't lying to me.
> 
> Keep backups.
> 
> Quoth Dave Eckhardt :
>>> For the napkin calculation: On disk, the IEntry is 38Bytes.  Alas,
>>> writes occur always in (the ssd internal) blocksize.  So, essentially
>>> (assuming 4096 byte blocksize, which is quite optimistic), we have
>>> a write efficiency of less than 1 percent.
>> 
>> While I see how such a model can predict disaster, I don't think that
>> model matches how FTLs work, because it can't.
>> 
>> Many file systems (FAT, ext2/3/4) write the same logical block over
>> and over and over and over and over.  I think the default interval
>> for ext4 to synch the superblock and the journal is five seconds,
>> which if true is more than 15,000 times every *day* for a busy
>> file system (and I think lots of Linux systems are busy in that
>> sense).
>> 
>>> A good firmware in the ssd could avoid needing a new block for the
>>> write, if all bits are changed in teh same direction by the new
>>> data.
>> 
>> Again, I believe this model predicts that no regular Linux file
>> system can be used on any SSD, thus I believe this model is not
>> accurate.
>> 
>> To quote Wikipedia:
>> 
>>  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory_controller
>> 
>>> The mapping units of an FTL can differ so that LBAs are mapped
>>> block-, page- or even sub-page-based.  Depending on the usage
>>> pattern, a finer mapping granularity can significantly reduce
>>> the flash wear out and maximize the endurance of a flash based
>>> storage media.
>> 
>> Also, I feel as if this point is several assumption layers deep.
>> I think one user reported an unknown number of failures in two
>> sets of SSDs of unknown brand and model.  I don't think we know
>> that it was venti SSDs that went bad as opposed to fossil SSDs,
>> let alone knowing it was index SSDs for venti.
>> 
>>> It seems, venti in its current form is a ssd killer, if they
>>> are used for the isects.
>> 
>> I don't think this claim is yet supported well.
>> 
>> Dave Eckhardt

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Re: [9fans] Balancing Progress and Accessibility in the Plan 9 Community. (Was: [9fans] Interoperating between 9legacy and 9front)

[Steve Simon]

i got very suspicious at the mention of a procinfo syscall - unlikely in plan9, 
and i couldn't imagine a use for such a thing given we have /proc already.

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9.

[Steve Simon]

i read the paper.

i can believe there are still bugs, truth be told there are bugs in most 
software. all i can say is in my experience i have not hit any since the 
ephemeral snapshot fix. Honestly fosdil has been solid for me; i hope i have 
not just jinx’ed it :-)

-Steve


> On 15 May 2024, at 11:18 pm, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> noam said there's also some well-known issues with locks that still
> keeps happening in fossil. did you watch the outcome of last iwp9? he
> has the best description of the state of venti and fossil to date.
> 
>> On Thu, May 16, 2024 at 12:08 AM Steve Simon  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Just a little first hand experience - I have run a fossil and venti server 
>> for twenty years now.
>> 
>> Fossil suffered three problems in my opinion:
>> 
>> Firstly it was not well publicised that fossil was never designed to cope 
>> with overflow; the sad truth is it fails catastrophically, as whitenessed by 
>> Brucee. it should cope better really, but when used as a write buffer for 
>> venti this is unlikely, it has never happened to me.
>> 
>> Secondly it had a race condition in the ephemeral snapshot code. the only 
>> way to make fossil reliable was to turn these off. This bug was fixed by 
>> Charles (i think, though perhaps it was Richard) about 10 years ago and with 
>> the fix my server has been taking ephemeral snapshots ever since.
>> 
>> Thirdly venti and fossil are slow.
>> 
>> I think its sad (an emotion, sorry) that fossil sources where deleted from 
>> 9front but i do understand the principal of not distributing things the 
>> community does not wish to support.
>> 
>> -Steve
>> 

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Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9.

[Steve Simon]

Just a little first hand experience - I have run a fossil and venti server for 
twenty years now.

Fossil suffered three problems in my opinion:

Firstly it was not well publicised that fossil was never designed to cope with 
overflow; the sad truth is it fails catastrophically, as whitenessed by Brucee. 
it should cope better really, but when used as a write buffer for venti this is 
unlikely, it has never happened to me.

Secondly it had a race condition in the ephemeral snapshot code. the only way 
to make fossil reliable was to turn these off. This bug was fixed by Charles (i 
think, though perhaps it was Richard) about 10 years ago and with the fix my 
server has been taking ephemeral snapshots ever since.

Thirdly venti and fossil are slow.

I think its sad (an emotion, sorry) that fossil sources where deleted from 
9front but i do understand the principal of not distributing things the 
community does not wish to support.

-Steve


 
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Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9.

[Steve Simon]

coraid has an interesting history.How Silicon Valley can kill your business, by a man scolded by the machineinformation-age.comBrantley now has the Coraid name back too and is using plan9 to this day.-SteveOn 14 May 2024, at 5:39 pm, arn...@skeeve.com wrote:"B. Atticus Grobe"  wrote:As for companies that use 9, Coraid (Brantley Coile) was invested in 9 fortheir network storage systems, although it's possible their newer productsdon't utilize it.They still do. See his posts on LinkedIn.Arnold--9fans: 9fansPermalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Tad3dc0c93039a7d2-M978e977ab934f741265275d1Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription

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Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9

[Steve simon]

re: VCS -vs-dump

I always planned to add code to fossil to allow members of (say) the 'dump' 
group to trigger fa fossil to venti dump at arbitrary times.
If with this it would be trivial to have a 'release' rc script which could save 
a log message and trigger a dump.

I know this is not really a VCS but the ability to get back to an atomic set of 
files representing a release would help a lot IMHO.

-Steve

> On 18 Apr 2024, at 21:41, Dan Cross  wrote:
> 
> Jujitsu



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Re: [9fans] dd(1) takes very long

[Steve simon]

A larger block size as lucio says, and also try two dd's with a pipe between 
them,
one reading and one writing. dd(1) is single threaded but you have two 
asynchronous physical devices.

I have had good success copying sd-cards using fcp -  rsc's  multithreaded cp, 
already in the distribution,
though I don't know what blocksize it uses offhand.

-Steve

> On 1 Mar 2024, at 09:39, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> 
> Increasing the dd block size (-bs 1024k or as big as the man pages
> allow) could make a big difference.
> 
> 
> On 3/1/24, Aleksandar Kuktin  wrote:
>>> On Fri, 1 Mar 2024 10:08:25 +0100
>>> Marco Feichtinger  wrote:
>>> 
 and the computer isn't a SBC bitty box, the transfer rate is weirdly
 low.
>>> 
>>> Well, both disk are on the same machine.
>>> It's a Supermicro X7SPA-H-D525 board.
>>> 
>>> -marco
>> 
>> Well, that's not a bitty box. Wish I bought something like that instead
>> of my BananaPi. Anyway, someone more knowledgeable on Plan 9 than me is
>> needed. I can only speculate that the OS and hardware fight. I have
>> something similar happening on my desktop with modern hardware running
>> old software. I run GNU/Linux on it. For some reason I can't figure out,
>> transfers start off normal but then degrade to 10 Mbps or less after a
>> few GiB are transferred. If I try it with CentOS 7, it runs fine. But
>> when I use my own homegrown distro it's pathologic. Kernel version
>> 3.16.85, vanilla.
>> 
>> --
>> Svi moji e-mailovi su kriptografski potpisani. Proverite ih.
>> All of my e-mails are cryptographically signed. Verify them.
>> --
>> You don't need an AI for a robot uprising.
>> Humans will do just fine.
>> --
>> 
> 
> 
> --
> Lucio De Re
> 2 Piet Retief St
> Kestell (Eastern Free State)
> 9860 South Africa
> 
> Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
> Cell: +27 83 251 5824



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Re: [9fans] happy halloween

[Steve Simon]

very fine carving :-)-SteveOn 1 Nov 2023, at 5:51 am, fig  wrote:glenda would’ve been way too hard to carve. plus the knife i had could barely have cut butter it was so dull.

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Re: [9fans] 9Legacy status

[Steve Simon]

hi don,

yes it it. 9 legacy is the replacement for the labs sources repository in real 
terms.

it is courteous to cross publish patch descriptions to 9front of course.

sadly i have become all but inactive on plan9 these days, but hope i might get 
back to it.

-Steve


> On 4 Sep 2023, at 3:34 am, n...@pixelhero.dev wrote:
> 
> Quoth Don Bailey :
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Just curious if 9Legacy is considered the right place to submit modern
>> patches? Is that kind of the 'go to' repository for modern
>> patches/improvements to the 'mainline' Bell Labs distro?
> 
> https://9front.org
> 

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Re: [9fans] print() in kernel space doesn't work like I would think

[Steve Simon]

trycat /dev/kmesgorcat /dev/kprintOn 31 Aug 2023, at 4:44 pm, dusan3...@gmail.com wrote:
I was editing plan9's realtime scheduler in /sys/src/9/port/edf.c and was trying to add a print to log something, but print didn't show anywhere(or I am looking at the wrong place). It has some prints in source code already, with this define.#define DPRINT  if(Dontprint){}else printAnd with Dontprint set to 0I was expecting the output to be at boot time, in boot screen where it asks for bootargs, but it wasn't there. I thought it was either the wrong place I am looking at or it prints after I start the gui so I don't get to see it. Then i tried other prints,  iprint() seemed really cool and usefull but it does nothing. It builds ok, but doesn't output anything on serial (on Qemu serial window). Also, it didn't work in some user space program I made to test it. All I want is to have a normal log system so I can log things on screen.

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Re: [9fans] Plan9 multi-core support

[Steve Simon]

there was a vax compiler and i think a vax kenfs implementation, i don’t know 
if there was a vax cpu/auth kernel. quite possibly not.

currently i can only find my own post on tuhs confirming the vax was a dead 
end. but i am sure jmk told me he found a vax compiler binary in the labs dump.

i think vaxes where becoming rather passé by the time plan9 was born.

-Steve


> On 28 Aug 2023, at 7:21 pm, Kurt H Maier via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 12:32:55PM +, G B via 9fans wrote:
>> Windows and Linux began on single-core single processor machines. 
>> Multiprocessor had been around for some time--IBM's System 360 began using 
>> multi-processors in 1968--but not for x86. Plan 9 first edition came out in 
>> 1992, at a time when multicore didn't exist, and multicore was released with 
>> IBM's Power 4 in 2001. 
>> I can see why someone would ask if Plan 9 supports multicore. Plan 9 3rd 
>> edition was released in 2000 and 4th edition was released in 2002. In each 
>> case, going from single core-single processor to multiprocessor and then 
>> from multiprocessor to multicore would require changes in the operating 
>> system to recognize the extra processors and then the cores.
> 
> Symmetric multiprocessing was available in 1992, even on x86
> machines.  Multics, tops-10, and various unixes all supported it by then.
> Once you have shared-memory SMP there's little difference between
> multiprocessor and multicore.  Plan 9's implementation is imo cleaner
> than most of what came before, but by 1992 there was a lot of
> multiprocessing going on in the world.
> 
> khm

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Re: [9fans] Plan9 multi-core support

[Steve Simon]

> Plan 9 first edition came out in 1992, at a time when multicore didn't exist, 
> and multicore was released with IBM's Power 4 in 2001. 

possibly true but multi-cpu boxes where becoming quite popular in the late 
1980s and these have very similar kernel design challenges to multicore 
architectures.

one of the 1st edition’s target hosts where sgi numa machines (challenge 2s i 
think)

what i am saying is the plan9 kernel supported multiple processors from the 
very early days.

i wonder if the lost vax kernel supported multiple cpu's (or maybe is was kenfs 
only?).

Steve


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Re: [9fans] Standalone venti, fossil configuration

[Steve Simon]

if fossil and venti are started at boot then the plan9.ini variable venti= is 
all thats needed.

if you want to start them after boot, booting from another filesystem then the 
-v option to fossil is what you are after.

i wrote a hand-holding doc about rebuilding a venti/fossil years ago: 
https://9p.io/sources/contrib/steve/doc/Venti-rescue.pdf this describes how 
they fit together. note this was more about rebuilding after a disc failure 
than installation but it might help.

-Steve


> On 18 Aug 2023, at 11:51 am, Marco Feichtinger  wrote:
> 
> I have a standalone venti, which tcp boots from my file server.
>  How do I need to configure my fossil server, so it knows to use that venti 
> machine
> for archiving?
> 
> Is it enough to set the venti environmental variable; venti=ip-address?
> 
> -marco
> 

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Re: [9fans] PXE tftpload: file does not exist

[Steve Simon]

are you running the tftp server?


> On 17 Jul 2023, at 4:38 pm, Marco Feichtinger  wrote:
> 
> I have a standalone file server, and a separate standalone auth server.
> 
> I tried to pxe boot a cpu server.
> It gets the /386/9boot to load fine, but then it seems, that it can’t 
> retrieve the file /cfg/pxe/ from my file server.
> 
> here is the screen output during bootup:
>9boot gz…starting protected-mode loader at 0x900020
> 
> Plan 9 from Bell Labs PXE boot loader
> cpu0: 1800MHz GenuineIntel Atom (cpuid: AX 0x106CA DX 0xBFEBFBFF)
> ELCR: CC80
> #l0: i82598: 10Gbps port 0XFE98 irq 11: 
> #l0: i82598: 10Gbps port 0XFE98 irq 10: 
> 498M memory: 498M kernel data, 0M user, 18M swap
> pxe on ether0 .
>  (10.0.10.1!69): /cfg/pxe/ 
> .T.T.T.T.T.T.T.T.T.Ttftpread1st: failed to connect to server (10.0.10.1!69)
> 
> failed.
> tftpload: file does not exist
> 
> Which is strange, because I did create the file on my file server.
> It looks like following:
>bootfile=ether0!/386/9pccpuf
>nobootprompt=tcp
>readparts=1
>mouseport=2
>monitor=vesa
>vgasize=1024x768x8
>user=bootes
>sysname=
> 
> Does anyone know what might be the problem?
> Thanks.
> 
> -marco
> 

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Re: [9fans] Re: iso expanded, mount list (dd) device

[Steve Simon]

9660srv - it mounts an iso as 9p file server in /srv/9660, so you need to do a mount(1) to actually see the contents.-SteveOn 7 Jul 2023, at 7:20 pm, Conor Williams  wrote:ok... thank you Steve, well in...that particular train of thought leads me to another question...has you r a'yone an iso.expander for plan9... (ps: i do have anudder way)...()ps: am still on the lookout for  a dd arg...laterz... /c /d 773pps: overall: looking at a 10/15 minute vm plan9 static os creation...         with 99.99% automationOn Fri, Jul 7, 2023 at 6:58 PM Conor Williams  wrote:hello 9fannors...i wish to find the device? which the p9 iso file is mounted from...(a vm boot (i dont think that matters though...)e.g c drive is /dev/sdC0/c /ba 7723ps: i wish to do a quick back of the (, possibly ramfs, ) temporary / file system kind of like a backup of the c drive% dd /dev/XXYXX /dev/sdC0/9fatpps: would anyone know what might happen if the /dev/XXYXX partition is smaller that the C drive... (the /dev/sdC0/9fat is formatted and large and ready to go) -- i do realise i can find this out if I know the device...

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Re: [9fans] iso expanded, mount list (dd) device

[Steve Simon]

not quite sure i understand what you are asking, but perhaps ns(1) will show you what you want.-SteveOn 7 Jul 2023, at 6:59 pm, Conor Williams  wrote:hello 9fannors...i wish to find the device? which the p9 iso file is mounted from...(a vm boot (i dont think that matters though...)e.g c drive is /dev/sdC0/c /ba 7723ps: i wish to do a quick back of the (, possibly ramfs, ) temporary / file system kind of like a backup of the c drive% dd /dev/XXYXX /dev/sdC0/9fatpps: would anyone know what might happen if the /dev/XXYXX partition is smaller that the C drive... (the /dev/sdC0/9fat is formatted and large and ready to go) -- i do realise i can find this out if I know the device...

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Re: [9fans] [PATCH] fossil: fix a deadlock in the caching logic

[Steve Simon]

was this hard to reproduce?i have not seen fossil deadlocking and have used it since i installed my first home server in 2004.there definitely _was_ a problem in the snapshot code which was finally resolved around 2015 (roughly), i think perhaps skip, or forsyth found it - i apologise if i have the attribution wrong.fossil is also unhelpful if it runs out of space - i don’t believe brucee ever forgave it for that.this is less of a problem when it is run with venti of course.-SteveOn 4 Apr 2023, at 6:16 pm, n...@pixelhero.dev wrote:
I've sporadically encountered a deadlock in fossil. Naturally, when your root file system crashes, it can be hard to debug. My solution: stop having a root file system. Was able to attach acid using mycroft's tooling from ANTS, and get a clean stack trace (https://pixelhero.dev/notebook/fossil/stacks/2023-04-03.1).After a few hours yesterday (https://pixelhero.dev/notebook/fossil/2023-04-03.html), I eventually tracked down the deadlock. When blockWrite is told to flush a clean block to disk - i.e. one which is already flushed - it removes the block from the cache's free list, locks the block, detects that it's clean, and then... drops the reference. While keeping the block locked. And in the cache.This leak of the lock, of course, means that the *next* access to the block - which is still in the cache! - hangs indefinitely. This is seen exactly in the stack trace:_cacheLocal grabs the block from the cache, tries to lock it, and hangs indefinitely. Worse, it does so under a call to fileWalk, which holds a different lock, so the effect spreads out and makes even more of the file system inaccessible as well (the fileMetaFlush proc hangs waiting on this file lock).This patch just ensures we call blockPut on the BioClean path as well, thus unlocking the block and readding it to the cache's free lists.The patch is on my branch - https://git.sr.ht/~pixelherodev/plan9/commit/1bf8bd4f44e058261da7e89d87527b12073c9e0f - but I figured I should probably post it here as well.If anyone has any other patches that weren't in the 9legacy download as of ~2018, please let me know! :)---sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c | 4 +++-1 file changed, 3 insertions(+), 1 deletion(-)diff --git a/sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c b/sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.cindex f473d211e..2fec44949 100644--- a/sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c+++ b/sys/src/cmd/fossil/cache.c@@ -1203,8 +1203,10 @@ blockWrite(Block *b, int waitlock)fprint(2, "%s: %d:%x:%d iostate is %d in blockWrite\n",argv0, bb->part, bb->addr, bb->l.type, bb->iostate);/* probably BioWriting if it happens? */-			if(bb->iostate == BioClean)+			if(bb->iostate == BioClean){+blockPut(bb);goto ignblock;+			}}blockPut(bb);--

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Re: [9fans] iwp9: papers announced

[Steve Simon]

seconded, excellent work all.

i would like to buy the proceedings if they are going to be available as a 
bound volume.

-Steve


> On 14 Mar 2023, at 4:52 am, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> 
> Too far for me to travel, but there is a lot in the list I will be
> extremely sorry to miss.
> 
> Well done to all contributors!
> 
> Lucio.
> 
>> On 3/13/23, o...@eigenstate.org  wrote:
>> The accepted papers are up on the website: http://iwp9.org/
>> 
>> For convenience, I'll repeat the list here:
>> 
>> - Porting the Netsurf web browser to Plan 9,
>>Jonas Amoson
>> - GEFS, A Good Enough File System,
>>Ori Bernstein ?
>> - Hell Freezes Over: Freezing Limbo modules to reduce Inferno's memory
>> footprint
>>David Boddie
>> - NinePea: A Small 9P Library for Arduino and Plan 9
>>Eli Cohen
>> - Plan 9 on 64-bit RISC-V
>>Geoff Collyer
>> - MIPS Rides Again
>>Andrew D. Gibson
>> - Dr Glendarme or: How I Learned to Stop Kerberos and Love Factotum
>>Eduoard Klein
>> - Namespaces as Security Domains
>>Jacob Moody
>> - Ghostbusters
>>Noam Preil and Sigrid
>> - An O(1) Method for Storage Snapshots
>>Brian L Stuart
>> - Plan 9 and Inferno Go to School
>>Brian L Stuart
>> -A 9P Server for Application Management in Single Level Stores: A Status
>> Report
>>Emil Tsalapatis, Ryan Hancock and Ali Jos� Mashtizadeh
>> 
> 
> --
> Lucio De Re
> 2 Piet Retief St
> Kestell (Eastern Free State)
> 9860 South Africa
> 
> Ph.: +27 58 653 1433
> Cell: +27 83 251 5824

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Re: [9fans] Mail 447: /mail/fs/mbox/: open: error

[Steve Simon]

i think you may not have created your mailbox. every user needs to create their own mailbox with “mail -c”.cron similarly with cron -cthis is usually done by the script /sys/lib/newuser which also creates your $home/lib/profile and some other bits.this needs to be done only once per user.-SteveOn 17 Jan 2023, at 3:23 am, revr...@mweb.co.za wrote:
In trying to access Mail via Acme, I get this error:Mail 447: /mail/fs/mbox/:open '/mail/fs/mbox/' does not existIs this a bug? Anyone know how to resolve this issue?

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Re: [9fans] Statistics collection for Plan 9

[Steve Simon]

the screenshot failed to attach… 

> On 27 Nov 2022, at 16:30, Steven Stallion  wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> Some time ago (history(1) claims late 2015) I wrote a small network
> client for collectd to send system statistics to a remote server for
> visualization.  It's worked well over the years and over the holiday I
> had a chance to squash a couple of bugs and update the visualiation to
> something a bit more suitable for consumption (obligatory screenshot
> attached below).
> 
> I've uploaded the sources to my contrib directory on 9p.io:
>https://9p.io/sources/contrib/stallion/src/collectd/
> 
> Usage is fairly straightforward, but I have not yet had a chance to
> write a man page.  If others are interested, I can also put a contrib
> package together as well.
> 
> Include: /tmp/screenshot.png
> 
> Cheers,
> Steve
> 

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Re: [9fans] How can I compile c code written for plan9 in ANIS C compiler

[Steve Simon]

re: p9p for windows

Sean Quinlan did a p9p-line port for windows called 9pm, It was seen (it seems) 
as a port of sam with some simple command line tools
rather than a complete plan9 toolkit. its available here: 
https://netlib.org/research/ as sam.exe 

There was an attempt at a p9p for windows by Russ Cox, it was a very elegant 
solution having a p9p dll but suffererd from fragility
(a bug in the dll took all your p9p applications down), and split brain 
problems (p9p applications understood plan9 style binds and mounts,
native windows applications did not. As a result development stalled.

Its possible that this could be re-awakened using a windows IFS (Installable 
File System) driver to allow windows applications to see a
plan9 style file structure (the 9: drive :-) and perhaps starting p9p as a 
windows service. This sounds neat but would be a considerable
amount of work.

This is available here: 
https://web.archive.org/web/20070221202050/http://swtch.com/usr/local/plan9/9pm/README

There was a later implementation by Michael Teichgräber which is a complete 
port of plan9ports to windows, in a similar style to the
posix implementations, this works very well, though, like outher p9p 
implementations it has a bit of a split brain feel to it.

This is here: https://github.com/knieriem/pf9

I took a rather different approach as I used plan9 as my desktop for years but 
needed windows for some work related applications.

I did a minimal port of the plan9 command line applications to wondows and 
wrote a cpu(1) line client and server which allowed me to
warp a plan9 terminal to MS windows, in the same directory but running rc(1); I 
also used remote desktop to get a modern web browser.
This was very comfortable environment for what i needed.

This is here http://www.quintile.net/magic/webls?dir=/quintile.net/pkg  
9win.tbz

These days I work on a Mac so plan9ports does all I need, and sadly I hardly 
ever touch real plan9 any more :-(

-Steve



> I think there are two ports of plan 9 utilities to windows, one of them 
> includes old (2nd ed?), and other one is a more modern port.
> 
> https://code.google.com/archive/p/plan9port-windows



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Re: [9fans] How can I compile c code written for plan9 in ANIS C compiler

[Steve Simon]

apologies for completely missing the point,
note to self: coffee first, then reply to mailing lists

-Steve

> On 6 Oct 2022, at 11:21, Charles Forsyth  wrote:
> 
> 
> If you look at plan9port (eg, https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/), you'll see 
> how that's done for a good chunk of the application code of Plan 9 (using 
> host C compilers).
> It also includes versions of the Plan 9 libraries that will also compile on 
> other systems.
> Indeed, if you install plan9port you should be able to use its mk, 9c and 9l 
> and mkfile structure to compile your Plan 9 code directly (since that's how 
> the Plan 9 libraries are compiled in plan9port).
> The main restriction is that various Plan 9 C extensions aren't available, so 
> those need to be removed first.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, 6 Oct 2022 at 01:17, _ resun  wrote:
>> Hi there!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Is there any way I can compile a C code that is written for plan9 using a 
>> ANSI  C compile? Is there any way to replace the plan9 headers with ANSI 
>> standard c headers?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Thank you.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> _resun
>> 
>>  
>> 
> 
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] How can I compile c code written for plan9 in ANIS C compiler

[Steve Simon]

the native plan9 c environment is similar to ansi c but has some differences, 
mainly to the standard libraries.

plan9 also has an ansi/posix environment which is aimed at making it easier to 
port foreign code.

to use ape, use the pcc command.

there is a fairly complete command line enviroment which you can run ape/psh. 
this is a subshell which modifies your search path to pick up some different 
commands.

there is a paper in /sys/doc which describes ape more throughly.

-Steve


> On 6 Oct 2022, at 01:16, _ resun  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi there!
>  
> Is there any way I can compile a C code that is written for plan9 using a 
> ANSI  C compile? Is there any way to replace the plan9 headers with ANSI 
> standard c headers?
>  
> Thank you.
>  
> _resun
>  
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] 9p server to multiply 9p messages?

[Steve Simon]

for performance testing why not copy from ramfs on one machine to ramfs on 
another?

the suggestion from a 9con passim was to have fossil/cwfs/hjfs etc add a Qid 
type flag to files indicating they are from backing store (QTSTABLE ?)and thus 
may be copied in parallel. devices and synthetic would not normally have this 
flag forcing the read or write be sequential.

you could even make the file server set this flag only on files that have not 
changed in X days, and thus the contents are more likely to be stable (idea 
from the SRC package from DEC)

perhaps i missed something but i always thought the idea had legs.

-Steve


> On 1 Jun 2022, at 4:56 pm, Jacob Moody  wrote:
> 
> hjfs is not exactly known for it's speed[0]. Running a cwfs
> without a worm[1] is likely a more interesting comparison.
> 
> I also would recommend using kvik's clone[2] for copying
> in parallel.
> 
> Would be curious how that stacks up.
> 
> Thanks,
> moody
> 
> [0] http://fqa.9front.org/fqa4.html#4.3.6
> [1] http://fqa.9front.org/fqa4.html#4.3.6.1
> [2] https://git.sr.ht/~kvik/clone

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Re: [9fans] ntohl, htonl,

[Steve Simon]

ntohl in libc?
say its not so?

-Steve

> On 13 May 2022, at 10:23 pm, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
> Quoth adr :
>> so I imagined that some functions
>> or macros could be defined already somewhere.
> 
> They exist in fcall.h -- see GBIT/PBIT macros.
> 
> I wouldn't object mych to putting them in libc, possibly
> with better names and an accompanying patch to move
> the rest of the code over to use them.
> 

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Re: [9fans] factotum (was: Connect plan9 with Linux SMB resource)

[Steve Simon]

i am the author of cifs.

i may have some slightly more recent fixes than 9 front has, i will check.

the manual page does explain some registry settings you may need to tweak to 
get it to work - to do with windows getting more and more restrictive about the 
authentication protocols it supports.

the bottom line is i had cifs working to windows 10 a couple of years ago but 
these days i have a mac for work so i no longer need it.

to tell the truth i have become a go programmer which is great, but also a 
little sad, as i have mostly left plan9 development behind.

i will report in a day or two if i have any patches to contribute.

-Steve


> On 10 Apr 2022, at 1:15 pm, Tomás S. Javaloyes  wrote:
> 
> Thank you very much for the information.
> 
> You are absolutely right: the documentation offered in /sys/doc offers
> a lot of useful information to understand how Plan9 works.
> 
> One of the first documents I read was the "Plan 9 From Bell Labs" and
> just after almost the entire "book" DASH 1 from 9front.org because it
> is "the flavor" of Plan9 that I have installed in my VirtualBox where
> following the installation chapter I had no problem having a working
> system.
> 
> Then I dedicated myself to "playing" a bit. Learn enough about acme to
> be able to 'mount' the 9fat partition and configure a boot without
> prompting user, figure out how to activate my spanish keyboard and
> have fun trying commands, 'installing' some application (vdir,
> netsurf, rd) and getting used to using the mouse and adding 'widgets'
> (clock, list of processes) to the 'desktop'... It has reminded me of
> the times when Linux came along and I installed slackware in '94 with
> its 20-and -many floppies and that feeling of 'exploring' ;-)
> 
> I am going to document myself more and see if I am able to advance...
> 
> 
>> El dom, 10 abr 2022 a las 13:23, sirjofri
>> () escribió:
>> 
>> fatotum is quite easy, since it's a client as a filesystem.
>> 
>> The "real" server you can set up (but it's optional) is the secstore
>> server which persistently holds your keys.
>> 
>> factotum just uses these keys (or the ones you entered manually or read
>> in through a custom mechanism, e.g. a file) to handle all the
>> authentication stuff you want to use.
>> 
>> So in the end, factotum is very easy. Just start it in your namespace and
>> the programs will automatically use it. You can also run auth/fgui in a
>> rio to have a nice entry box for new keys. Really, the complex thing is
>> managing the namespace, which is the most important thing in Plan 9
>> anyways, so you should definitely learn it.
>> 
>> Common start point for factotum is, run it in your lib/profile. I believe
>> it's the standard lib/profile configuration to start the factotum in a
>> terminal session and import the terminal factotum in a cpu session.
>> 
>> There's plenty of resources about factotum and auth in Plan 9 systems. Do
>> yourself a favor and read the papers (/sys/doc/). Also I'm sure that
>> almost all Plan 9 users can give you hints and tips about it since it's
>> an integral part of the system.
>> 
>> On my very first Plan 9 laptop I btw just had my keys stored in a plain
>> file, unencrypted.
>> 
>> sirjofri

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Re: [9fans] plan9port spell and dict

[Steve Simon]

my spelling is so dreadful that i need more help than just spell.

i wrote suggest(1) which tries to guess what i meant to write:

http://www.quintile.net/pkg/suggest.tbz

this runs on vanilla plan9 so may need a little tweak for p9p.

i got hold of an OED cdrom and managed to build dict for that - i can dig out 
the tools i used/wrote but the cd is copyrighted i am afraid. 

-Steve

> On 11 Mar 2022, at 11:40 am, Maurizio Boriani  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi all,
>  I'm playing with spell and dict programs in p9p but... Which kind or
> where can I find dictionaries for different languages?
> 
> Someone use 'em too?
> 
> have a nice day,
> 
> --
> Maurizio Boriani
> PGP key: 0xCC0FBF8F

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Re: [9fans] licence question

[Steve Simon]

good grief people.

Someone doesn’t like GPLs, can we not just accept this and not tell them they 
are wrong.

And if they wish not to release the source for their work, again that is their 
decision.

its one thing to point out the (possibly) unseen side effects of these 
decisions but lets just leave it at that.

can we not keep 9fans supportive?

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Steve Simon]

search ebay for beatus mouse

On 29 Jan 2022, at 1:22 am, adr  wrote:

Do you know where to buy the wired model?


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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[Steve Simon]

I am a long term sam user and a three button mouse, but I also like the ease of 
navigation of a scroll wheel.

I use a Beatus mouse - three real buttons and a scroll wheel on the side for 
your thumb.
Sadly they are only made right handed and they are a little small for my hand 
but they are still the best
I have found.

Google will find them quite easily.

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] Sponsoring a new Intro book by the Flan 9 Poundation

[Steve Simon]

i suggest first you check your facts carefully before publicly accusing anyone 
of anything.

throwing unchecked accusations around is a good way to start an angry mob, and 
we all know how inclusive those tend to be.

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] Unable to load page in Abaco

[Steve Simon]

you need

ip/ipconfig
ndb/cs
ndb/dns
webfs
abaco

the ipconfig call may need a -R if you want to use dhcp rather than having a 
static ip from ndb.

nsd/cs will set the sysname based on matching the mac address in lib/ndb/local,
and this will be put in your prompt of any shell. this is nice but not required 
for abaco

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] Unable to load page in Abaco

[Steve Simon]

li looks like you are not running ndb/dns.

you need to start this before webfs, and then start abaco after that.

sadly the web has moved on a but since abaco was written - it used to render 
most pages quite well. These days its lack of javascript is more and more of a 
problem.

-Steve

On 17 Jan 2022, at 8:22 pm, Saif Resun  wrote:


Hello there! I am Resun. I was trying to use internet in Plan9 but I am always 
unable to load a page in abaco. After a lots of trying I managed to get 
connected to the internet but in abaco I am getting this error:


 
Can someone please help get rid of this?
Thank you.
 
_resun
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Re: [9fans] Boot CD chokes

[Steve Simon]

thought experiment:

imagine someone was commenting on the 9front mailing list how 9front was not 
worth bothering with and how the OP should use OSX. that would make the 9front 
people a little frustrated.

> i don't know what aspect exactly of
> "classic" computing motivates you
> to recommend this struggle.



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Re: [9fans] Autoexpand in sam

[Steve Simon]

i would use ,|spell which replaces the current window with sam’s output, then, 
having taken note of the errors, type u to undo and fix the mistakes.

this is just personal choice of course.

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] UTF-8 characters in acme

[Steve Simon]

pretty much the only major change to sam since 87 was (i believe)  the 
migration from ASCII (on Unix v10 and p9 Ed1) to utf-8.

if you are not seeing unicode characters it is most probably because you don’t 
have a font with the appropriate glyphs.
 
-Steve



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Re: [9fans] porting projects...

[Steve Simon]

mouse sharing is not end, there is also cut and paste integration - relatively 
easy but not to be forgotten.

i think you could also play some fun tricks with drag and drop on other os’s 
passing a (modified) path to the plumber (/n/remote-host/file-path).

finally plumbing a url on plan9 could open a modern browser in the commodity os.

personal view…

overall such integration would make plan9 usable as a desktop again for me.

previously i had a work windows box via remote desktop. this allowed me to use 
plan9 as my primary desktop but switch into rd ehen i needed.

now i have a work mac and vnc from the mac does not work as well. thankfully 
p9p makes life bearable but i feel dishonest.

-Steve




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Re: [9fans] porting projects...

[Steve Simon]

i was going to mention barrier but couldn’t remember it’s name. as far as the 
plan9 code goes they should both work - the only difference being the initial 
handshake message.

current synergy supports many new features but plan9 is not interested.

the problem is really the lack of documentation, the best info is a very simple 
example client, but even that has bugs it seems.

i even considered writing a new plan9 specific protocol but that would mean 
delving into the internals of osx to hook it in…


-Steve


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Re: [9fans] porting projects...

[Steve Simon]

i will bite

i tried and faild to get cinap’s historic synergy client to work with a current 
synergy server on windows/linux/osx etc.

the biggest pain is the wireshark disector is buggy and there is no real 
documentation for the protocol.

not really selling it am i?

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] Codebase navigation and using tags files in acme

[Steve Simon]

I wrote a bit of lex to extract features from c code. being lex it is 
incomplete to say the least but i found it good enough.

my code used to run every night passed a list of files to parse, and wrote an 
idenifier, comment, function, #define etc database (2 text files) which i could 
grep through.

i used it when i worked supporting solaris, it allowed me to find error 
messages and functions anywhere in the sourcecode quickly.

i haven't run it in years but maybe it is of use to someone.

http://www.quintile.net/pkg/xid.tbz

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] How to setup wifi on raspberry pi 4

[Steve Simon]

if the second raspberry pi is *not* running plan9 sshnet allows you to use its 
network interfaces (via ssh) for tcp connections.

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] nfs timeouts

[Steve Simon]

hi

i am afraid there are long standing issues in nfs(4). i had problems years ago 
using it to read image files from a pluto video disk store.

from memory the issue was when doing a directory scan of the pluto it would 
take so long nfs(4) would timeout, and this was not gracefully handled properly 
and nfs would fault.

i never managed to get to the bittom of it and just used cifs(4) instead.

-Steve




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Re: [9fans] Four numbers in /lib/sky/here

[Steve Simon]

hi,

i suspect rob or ken would be the ones to ask, maybe something to do with some 
private flight planning or astronomy tool?

-Steve


On 27 Jul 2021, at 7:13 pm, Dan Cross  wrote:


On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 1:53 PM Anthony Sorace  wrote:
> There are a few other things which also use that file (e.g. latcmp, the 2e 
> road(1), gmap (who did that?) my darksky program). I’m wondering if I’m 
> missing something that uses that fourth number. I certainly can’t rule out 
> user error.

Could it be an azimuth that's consumed by something?

- Dan C.

> > On Jul 27, 2021, at 10:20, David du Colombier <0in...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> > The fourth number looks like a mistake.
> > astro(1) only parses the first three numbers.
> > 
> > --
> > David du Colombier

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Re: Posix implementation of Plan 9 cpu(1) (Was: [9fans] Command to set samterm label)

[Steve Simon]

i wrote a cpu like client/server for windows (called dos). 

my code and test environment lived on a microsoft smb server. i ran cifs(1) to 
get access to this from plan9 and sam.

dos(1) allowed me to start an rc(1) running on win32 in the same directory as 
my current directory on plan9. it also kept my local /dev/wdir up to date with 
that on windows - massaging paths as needed.

all this allowed me to bounce between windows and plan9 fairly transparently 
like cpu(1) would on plan9. i could also plumb files i saw and plan9 would do 
the right thing.

it should use the cpu(1) protocol but i never got round to it - what i have 
just works.

my current employer uses Macs rather than windows so this has fallen into 
disuse.

i am happy to share if anyone has a use for it.

-Steve


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Re: Posix implementation of Plan 9 cpu(1) (Was: [9fans] Command to set samterm label)

[Steve Simon]

my cpu for windows was always incomplete, but good enough that i never finished 
it properly.

for posix i just use sftpfs or now cinap’s sshftp to import the filesystem from 
the posix box as /n/fred and run sam locally (i am a samista rather than an 
acmeite)

i cannot run stuff remotely but i can edit in a nice environment. is this not 
enough?

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] p9f mention of 9front

[Steve Simon]

I think there where two reported issues with fossil.

On was a bug in ephermerial shapshots which could cause it to crash,
this was fixed about 10 years ago but did exist for an embarassingly long time.

The other was a design decision rather than a bug which was not well
communicated. Fossil was designed as a write buffer to be used in
conjunction with venti. It could operate as a stand alone filesystem
to replace the single user kfs.

However if fossil fills up - because more has been written to it than
it can hold or because snapshots have been turned on without a venti
attached, it will crash badly and can (I believe) lose user data.

The third issue with using fossil and venti is it is not very performant,
it was reasonable when it was written in the early 2000s but is slow
compared to modern Linux filesystems (I don't know how it compares to
cwfs or hjfs).

I have been using fossil and venti continuiously since 2004 and tend
to jump to its defence.

Re different kernels
As I have understood it (others may correct me) the difference between
cpu and terminal kernels is only the value one global variable (cpuserver)
in the kernel, and the list of drivers compiled in - traditionally there
was no graphics support in cpu kernels for example.

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] Miller's 9pi image (rpi4) problems

[Steve Simon]

I must appologise, though I sent a reply at the time, an out of date x509
certificate meant the email never reached my ISP.

What I tried to say was... 

> I wonder if the abaco problem you are seeing is the global move to
> stronger TLS algorithms. I have backported libcrypt from 9front which
> was fairly straightforward - a it needed wider (but justified IMHO) changes
> than i hoped but it was an afternoon's work.
> 
> I use webfs from 9front too to - cinap pretty much rewrote it and his code
> is much cleaner (again IMHO). It needs only a couple of tiny tweeks to work.
> 
> I found usb2 disk adapters worked fine, and usb3 adapters work in usb2 
> sockets 
> in the pi4, the combination I failed to get to work was usb3 adapters in usb3
> sockets (the most interesting one of course).
> 
> The usbxhci.c in the kernal is cinap's from 9front with a few small changes
> for different kernal interfaces, I checked it was in sync a few months ago
> and expect it still is.
> 
> I am afriad my progress stalled there.

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] sam -d for DOS (FreeDOS)?

[Steve Simon]

I do think I build the backend of sam on MSDOS back in the day,
it was most probably the 1st edition plan9 code which was released
as a seperate package (with X11 libraries).  (still kicking around
on netlib: http://www.netlib.org/research/)

It require some porting effort but I am pretty sure I did it so
it cannot be that hard.

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi400 Ethernet

[Steve Simon]

hi Brian,

pi4 ether worked out of the box for me with richards kernel, i am running a 
kernel from Christmas.

sadly i have had problems with usb3 which is on my todo list - usb2 devices 
work fine as do usb3 devices in usb2 sockets.

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] SFF 9legacy fileserver hardware

[Steve Simon]

I am running a PI4 as my file/auth/cpu server.

I planned to use an external ssd on a usb3 but this has stalled
as I cannot get the 9front xhci driver to work in richard's kernel.
It is probably not a big issue, and works fine (abet slowly) over USB2.

until last year I still had a dual Atom machine which worked nicely but
is a propper desktop machine even though its a mini ITX.

-Steve

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[9fans] p9f email address

[Steve Simon]

hi

is there an email address to contact p9f directly?

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] Olimex: these guys are keen electronic engineers.

[Steve Simon]

FWIW I wrote an embedded system on a small SOC arm (Atmel sam4e) a couple of
years ago (this is a 128Kbyte/100Mhz class machine). I ported Russ's libtask
to it. I extended it a bit with a command line interface for debug and 
added timeouts but I ended up with a delightful development environment,
and a successful project.

-Steve

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[9fans] git9 to tradational interface wrapper for go

[Steve Simon]

Hi all,

Anyone made any progress writing a wrapper script, like djc's /rc/bin/git,
for ori's git9?

It may seem peverse to replicate Linus's interface (which I don't like),
but the go compiler suite expects this interface, so rather than trying to
hack go this seems the path of least resistance.

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] sshnet and the go dns resolver

[Steve Simon]

thanks all for the suggestions.

digging through the source of sshnet.c and the go net library i think i 
understand.

the plan9 runtime library assumes, and insists the string returned from /net/cs 
contains a valid ip address.

the code in sshnet which serves a  /net/cs does a local ndb lookup, and if that 
fails, returns the dns name it was given. i guess this is to allow name 
resolution to be tried at the remote host.

i shall experiment a bit more.

-Steve



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[9fans] sshnet and the go dns resolver

[Steve Simon]

hi,

the senerio - i have a plan9 terminal, a mac laptop. the laptop connects to a 
vpn.

i write in go, and thus far i use sshfs to mount the mac’s filesystem and edit 
my code. i build and run the code on the mac.

i thought i could use git9 via sshnet to work natively on plan9

most of this is fine but when go tries to access mod files for packages on the 
vpn i get a “no sutiable address found” error for proxy.golang.org.

i can resce the address i need (over the vpn) using ndb/dnsquery however.

if i try and build without my sshnet vpn connection then i get a different 
error which refers to a repository on the vpn.

so. i think the native resolver in the go libraries (and thus in the go 
executable) do not play nicely with sshnet.

my guess (only a guess) is go is trying to do its own name resolution using udp 
port 53 and sshnet does not support udp.

anyone any ideas?
can i convince go to use plan9’s own name resolution?
can ssh (and thus sshnet) forward udp or is that not possible?

thanks for any ideas

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] 2c/2l make sense, but why 1c/1l?

[Steve Simon]

I don't believe a 68000 compiler was ever released by the labs but there
may have been one - some blit terminals had 68000s (and maybe gnots?) so
its plausable.

There was a port of the plan9 compilers to the VAX but I think its
sourcecode was lost (jmk found an executable some years).

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 Foundation

[Steve Simon]

> How do we get involved in or become a member of the foundation?

I too am interested in supporting plan9 in any form I can.

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] patches from 9front

[Steve Simon]

FWIW I recently extracted ssh/sshfs/libsec from 9front and applied them to
richard miller's raspberry pi image.

This was not too hard but the changes did extend further than I first expected.
I could braindump what I did and it would form (I think) a very useful diff.

Richard millers image is not the same as 9legacy but it is probably very close.

-Steve

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[9fans] tbl page width

[Steve Simon]

hi,

anyone any ideas how to inform tbl that i am using wide paper - well A4 
landscape.

i have tried .pl and the LL number register which tells the ms macros but tbl 
does’t appear to pick up this info.

-Steve

 
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Re: [9fans] Re: GSoC 2021 project ideas

[Steve Simon]

there was a native plan9 dis interpreter that would run simple command line 
applications. on Andrey’s website i think.

-Steve


On 8 Feb 2021, at 8:49 pm, cigar562hfsp952f...@icebubble.org wrote:

"Ethan Gardener"  writes:

> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021, at 7:16 AM, cigar562hfsp952f...@icebubble.org wrote:
>> Anthony Sorace  writes:
>> 
>> (6) Incorporating Inferno's Dis virtual machine into the Plan 9 kernel,
>>so Plan 9 can run Dis binaries natively, without having to run the
>>Inferno emulator (emu) as a user process.
> 
> This idea keeps popping up, but I just thought a Dis to native code
> compiler would achieve the same result without bloating the
> kernel. Perhaps it could even be built into Inferno, if the JIT
> compiler could be modified to output an object file instead of running
> the code.

That's a brilliant idea: a "Dis" assembler for Plan 9, to compile (well,
assemble, really) Dis code to binaries for the host architecture.  The
Dis architecture was specifically designed to make it easy to map the
Dis machine to the underlying architecture.  But... the binary interface
would have to be the Plan 9 one, so the proper place to do such assembly
would be on Plan 9.  If it were an extension of Inferno's JIT, it would
have to track changes made to Plan 9.  Since Dis is stable and
standardized, it makes more sense for a Plan 9 tool to track Dis than
the other way around.  Come to think of it, you wouldn't even need to
implement a full assembler.  Assembling Dis on Plan 9 could be achieved
simply by dis-assembling (a la appl/cmd/disdump.b) Dis modules to Plan 9
assembly language.  The Plan 9 assembler suite already exists.

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Re: [9fans] GSoC 2021 project ideas (WAS: Re: Plan 9 Applying to GSoC 2021)

[Steve Simon]

someone at the land (peter bosch?) dis a haupage video capture card.

i am pretty sure i have a copy of the driver and user level app somewhere.

this worked on an old pci card i had at one time.

-Steve


On 1 Feb 2021, at 8:32 pm, cigar562hfsp952f...@icebubble.org wrote:

Anthony Sorace  writes:

> Hello! After a few years away, we’ll be applying to Google’s Summer of Code 
> program again this year.

...

> 1. Project ideas. One of the key parts of the application is the
> project ideas page. If you’ve got ideas that seem like they’d be a

Plan 9-related:

(1) Porting the Plan 9 kernel to a microkernel architecture, such as
   Mach.  This would give Plan 9 instant access to the whole range of
   hardware supported by the underlying microkernel.

(2) A Zoom/video conferencing application for Plan 9.  Enough said.  :)

(3) Happauge/Brooktree BTTV/video capture drivers.  AFAIK, Plan 9 can
   only use USB Web cams.

(4) Port SANE (Scanner Access Now Easy) tools as a Plan 9 file system.
   That would give Plan 9 instant access to a huge range of flatbed &
   sheet-fed document scanners.

(5) An NFS sever for Plan 9.  Unix machines have a lot of trouble
   handling edge cases encountered on 9P filesystems (such as the
   number of hard links to directories).  An NFS server would make it
   much easier for Unix/Linux and Plan 9 to get along happily.

(6) Incorporating Inferno's Dis virtual machine into the Plan 9 kernel,
   so Plan 9 can run Dis binaries natively, without having to run the
   Inferno emulator (emu) as a user process.

Inferno-related:

(A) A 64-bit version of Dis, which was designed as a 32-bit (31-bit?)
   architecture.

(B) Porting Inferno to modern video game consoles, such as the Nintendo
   Switch family.  Coolness.

(C) Creating a secure version of Dis.  The way that Dis handles
   allocated/freed memory isn't particularly safe, and can leak
   sensitive data (such as encryption keys).  It doesn't have a way to
   whiten memory, or to mark ranges of memory as non-swappable.  This
   could be done by adding new VM instructions, or on a per-module
   basis by adding new module flags.

(D) Porting Nemo/LSUB's "OSHAD" to Plan 9.  OSHAD is an authentication
   system (implemented in Inferno) which allows you to provide
   passwords or acknowledge actions from a separate, wireless hand-held
   device.

(E) A postscript/PDF viewer for Inferno.  Enough said.  :)

Android-related:

(a) An Android "app" that presents an Android phone's telephone and SMS
   messaging facilities as a 9P filesystem.  This would enable Plan 9
   and Inferno applications to place/receive voice calls and
   send/receive text messages across a network.  This could be done by
   extending bhgv's existing Android port of Inferno, or as a
   separtate, stand-alone server app.

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[9fans] pi3 b+ and 5ghz wifi

[Steve Simon]

hi,

does the pi3 b+ support 5ghz wifi?

i have a feeling it doesn’t but i cannot find a message in 8fans passim which 
states one way of the other,

i understand it will probably be no quicker but i am seeing miserable 
performance from wifi at the moment which i am fairly sure is due to my 
neighbours on the 2.4ghz band. 5ghz on the other hand looks fairly free.

on the same topic - is 5ghz supported on the pi4 ?

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] authoritative source for u9fs?

[Steve Simon]

maybe i have missed something but i don’t think u9fs changed much.

i added a fix, years ago, adding frogs for some of the weird stuff osx does to 
filenames.

in my world it has been completely replaced by sshfs.

-Steve


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[9fans] cfs

[Steve Simon]

Hi all,

I am playing with cfs(4). It works nicely dialing to my fileserver but
fails if I try to use the existing /srv/boot channel.

failed with /srv/boot:

sceolan% 5.out -d -n -F /srv/boot  -f $cfs -S /n/cache
<-client: Tversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000'
->server: Tversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000'
5.out: write failed, inappropriate use of fd

works using dial:

sceolan% 5.out -d -F /srv/boot  -f $cfs -S /n/cache
<-client: Tversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000'
->server: Tversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000'
<-server: Rversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000'
->client: Rversion tag 65535 msize 8216 version '9P2000'
<-client: Tauth tag 13 afid 402 uname steve aname 
->server: Tauth tag 13 afid 402 uname steve aname 
<-server: Rauth tag 13 qid (0192 0 A)
->client: Rauth tag 13 qid (0192 0 A)
<-client: Tread tag 13 fid 402 offset 0 count 2048

Note: using -n or not makes no differnce to the failed version,
though I would expect to need -n with /srv/boot.

The error occurs on the first write to /srv/boot.

I can mount /srv/boot with mount(1) without problems.

What have I missed?

-Steve

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[9fans] now a usb question

[Steve Simon]

sorry to keep asking,

a couple of years ago you gave me a technique for stopping part of usb and then 
restarting it with debug turned on (done from a usb keyboard).

i have a new compact keyboard from ebay but it is not seen by plan9, and not 
listed in usb/probe; though it does work with MacOS.

-Steve




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Re: [9fans] default profile and factotum

[Steve Simon]

> With drawterm you'd need running factotum on the cpu, which is not that 
> nice...

FYI: I have a patch which stores the secrets from secstore in /dev/secstore
in drawterm so your profile can start factotum -n and populate the factotum
with cat - and then importantly clear out the /dev/secstore.

I did't write this code put found it on the net (kudos to the original author).

it means you can start drawterm with a just a click linux/osx/windows click
and secstore password.

It is less secure, but I am using this at home only.

-Steve

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[9fans] default profile and factotum

[Steve Simon]

I came across a strange issue today - I could not send mail when cpu'ed into
a different machine.

It turned out to be my factotum was not visible (it was not bound in in my 
profile)

This feels starnge to me so I checked in /sys/lib/newuser to make sure I hand't 
just deleted
the line by mistake, but no.

Is this by design? is there a reason for not binding in my factotum when I 
cpu(1)

-Steve

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[9fans] thin clints, confession and a freebie

[Steve Simon]

hi,

the talk of thin clients reminded me i offered an hp t5325 thin client to 
anyone who wants to port plan9 to it. i think someone wanted it but i never 
sent it - sorry.

i still have the device and psu, details here:
https://www.parkytowers.me.uk/thin/hp/t5325/

free to anyone who wants it... 

having said this, i am in the uk and postage to the usa is extortionate, so if 
you need it sent there i may want a contribution to postage.

please make use of it, i never did.

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] mice

[Steve Simon]

i tried a countour mouse but didn't get on with it. i bought a cheap Chinese 
copy - 3 real buttons on top and a wheel on the side.

i cannot find the exact link, this is the same mouse but i have the wired 
version - never needs recharged.

i really like it, it fits my had well and i can use sam, and scroll windows 
(with the 9front changes).

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/404785639.html

-Steve

> On 27 Nov 2020, at 11:04 pm, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
> 
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2020 at 06:02:13PM -0500, fi...@lojanci.org wrote:
>> Anybody has tried Unimouse on plan9port/linux?
> 
> I have.  I don't use it much these days since it's in my office and the
> plague has me working from home.  It works fine -- what do you need to
> know?
> 
> khm

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[9fans] venti sealed arenas and ondisk format

[Steve Simon]

Hi,

I have a pile of sealed venti arenas on an a usb stick, and the last fossil 
score.

is there any reasonable way I can view the dump filesystem from these with a 
readonly
filesystem without:
formatting a filesystem to take them
building indexes
running venti
finally running vacfs

what I would like is a vacfs like tool that can read the arenas, build the 
index in RAM and provide a 9p interface.

any chance?

-Steve

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Re: [9fans] osc drawterm big sur

[Steve Simon]

ok,

this drawterm is working fine for me now.

the cocoa build fails to start, not even prompting me for secstore passwords.

the metal build works with a small match (bodge?) applied, and i backported the 
/dev/secstore change from an old drawterm i have here.

i assume /dev/secstore was removed as it is bad security practice - which is 
true. i added it back under the -S option so it is not the default.

NB to be really sure your secrets have gone i suggest you have “cp /dev/null 
/mnt/term/dev/secstore” in your profile - overwrite them rather than just 
truncating the file.

i have submitted pull requests on github for these changes.

-Steve

> On 19 Nov 2020, at 2:59 pm, sirjofri  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I'm not on OSX, but:
> 
> 19.11.2020 12:40:00 Steve Simon :
>> there is no /mnt/term/dev/secstore device containing my secstore when i 
> authenticated to drawterm, so i need to authenticate to secstore again in my 
> profile which is irritating. this may be by design as having drawterm know. 
> all my secrets feels a bit foolish.
> 
> I never got anything secstore related working with drawterm. I always needed 
> to get my secrets after drawterm connected separately (eg in profile). I 
> personally would like to have the secrets fetched by drawterm. It seems like 
> it only fetches them to connect with the cpu server and then forgets about 
> the keys.
> 
> Because of that, it seems like you can safely remove these drawterm lines 
> from your profile. I never heard of anybody to get this working properly...
> 
> sirjofri

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Re: [9fans] osc drawterm big sur

[Steve Simon]

i just have the xcode supplied clang and it works well.

i have two issues with it:

my shift key is generating spurious peter-face characters which makes typing 
rather painful (i have to delete these as i type)

there is no /mnt/term/dev/secstore device containing my secstore when i 
authenticated to drawterm, so i need to authenticate to secstore again in my 
profile which is irritating. this may be by design as having drawterm know. all 
my secrets feels a bit foolish.

it idefinitely feels much snappier than the old drawterm.

thanks

-Steve


> On 19 Nov 2020, at 11:25 am, Daniel Morandini via 9fans <9fans@9fans.net> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi folks,
>> While I don't have Big Sur, the drawterm at
>> http://drawterm.9front.org/ builds fine for
>> me with cocoa  + catalina:
>> 
>>   cd $drawterm
>>   mk CONF=osx-cocoa
>> 
>> You need all of xcode installed to process
>> some of the interface builder files.
>> 
>> If there are issues on big sur, let me know.
> I just double checked on Big Sur and works as stated above,
> ** provided CC=clang ** [1]
> 
> Does not work with gcc.
> 
> dan
> 
> [1] Apple clang version 12.0.0 (clang-1200.0.32.2)
> 

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Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM

[Steve Simon]

not the same but i am just building up a pi3b+ server running Richard’s current 
kernel. i have a lightning bolt onscreen and occasional red led flashes but so 
far it has bern absolutely reliable.

the only areas of minor problems: wifi does not always connect, and if it fails 
it needs a power cycle, and fshalt -r can leave it wedged, again needing a 
power cycle.

-Steve


> On 19 Nov 2020, at 12:16 am, Thaddeus Woskowiak  wrote:
> 
> On Wed, Nov 18, 2020 at 6:18 PM Anthony Sorace  wrote:
>>> Richard asked:
> ...
>> Is this lightning bolt a hardware feature? Like, it overlays it on the 
>> display,
>> even on Plan 9? I've never seen it. I'll watch for the power LED indicator.
> 
> Correct. Though I have not seen them on my pi 3b+ running both
> Miller's pi and 9front as I use the same honkin brick Richard
> mentioned and 1m anker usb-c cables. See this official post on the
> subject: https://www.raspberrypi.org/blog/introducing-pixel/

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[9fans] osc drawterm big sur

[Steve Simon]

osx drawterm source has been broken for a while due to apple withdrawing 
support fot quicktime libraries.

with the move to big sur the prebuilt binaries now fail to run (i am guessing 
the quicktime shared libraries have now gone too)

anyone able to help? i am an osx programming newbie.

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] Raspberry Pi 4 stability dependent in RAM

[Steve Simon]

> The pi4 is very sensitive to power supply voltage. 

absolutely,

i had loads of problems with a lowly pi3+ until i tried an old ipad charger 
(2.5A i think), it has been stable since.

-Steve
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[9fans]

[Steve Simon]

Hi people,

I have had to renew my certificate for tls and am getting a strange error from 
imap4d
when trying to collect email from my iphone.

tls reports failed: factotum_rsa_open: no key matches proto=rsa 
service=tls role=client 

Which does not make sense to me as my factotum has my new ras key in it:

key proto=rsa service=tls role=client owner=* size=2048 ek=10001 !dk=...

I have also put the same key in bootes factotum so it can be used for smtp 
outgoing mail, and rebooted to populate bootes factotum.

I have updated /sys/lib/tls/mail.pem, I even remembered to import the PEM
certificate (profile as apple calls it) into my phone.

What have I missed? why can't tlssrv find my key in my factotum?

-Steve


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Re: [9fans] Flakey DNS server

[Steve Simon]

i still use the labs dns server and have no problems, but my configuration is 
quite straightforward.

sorry not to be more help.

-Steve


> On 7 Oct 2020, at 6:08 am, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> 
> It would take me a long time to get to grips with the Plan 9 DNS
> server (believe me, I've tried) and somehow my situation is getting
> more difficult as norms on the Internet are being bent by service
> provider that care for their profitability much more than for
> interoperation: I get regular failures that bring my connection to the
> Internet to a halt in unpredictable ways.
> 
> That may be due to a complicated network database, possibly with
> errors in it, but fixing that is also a mission I don't wish to get
> stuck into.
> 
> Short-cut: 9front's dns server has undergone many changes from the
> Bell Labs sources I have on my production system , while 9legacy, at a
> glance, does not report any "dns" patches; my faith in Cinap is that
> he's likely to have applied sensible fixes (assuming it's his work,
> feel free to correct me).
> 
> Chances are 9front ndb/dns binary will work OK on my system, but I
> have in fact compiled the 9front sources in the Bell Labs context and
> only a minor warning was reported.
> 
> So the big question, before I commit to something I may not be
> competent to fix: what is recommended by those in the know?
> 
> Lucio.
> 

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Re: [9fans] Sad news.

[Steve Simon]


Oh hell, Andrey was a great guy, we had some long chats on IRC back in the day.

I regret losing contact in recent years.

All my best to his family.

-Steve


> On 28 Sep 2020, at 9:39 pm, Don Bailey  wrote:
> 
> 
> --89bce305b064cfb9
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> <3
> 
>> On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 1:33 PM Federico Benavento 
>> wrote:
>> Damn, I=E2=80=99m really sad to hear this, I never met him personally, bu=
> t he was
>> always fine guy to talk to.
>> My condolences to his family and friends. :(
>> On 28 Sep 2020, at 15:32, Dan Cross  wrote:
>> I just got word that Andrey has passed away. :-(
>> I'm sorry, I don't have any further details right now, but wanted to let
>> folks know.
>>- Dan C.
>> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
>>  + participants
>>  + delivery options
>>  Permalink
>>  
> 6209d332e9d0ee4651a
> 
> --89bce305b064cfb9
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> 3 te">On Mon, Sep 28, 2020 at 1:33 PM F=
> ederico Benavento mailto:benave...@gmail.com;>benavento@gmai=
> l.com wrote: margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-lef=
> t:1ex">Damn, Im really sad=
> to hear this, I never met him personally, but he was always fine guy to ta=
> lk to.My condolences to his family and friends. :( v>On 28 Sep 2020, at 15:32, Dan Cross =
> mailto:cro...@gmail.com; target=3D"_blank">cro...@gmail.com<=
> /a> wrote:I just got word that Andrey=
> has passed away. :-(Im sorry, I dont have =
> any further details right now, but wanted to let folks know. />- Dan C. iv> v id=3D"topicbox-footer" style=3D"margin:10px 0 0;border-top:1px solid #ddd=
> ;border-color:rgba(0,0,0,.15);padding:7px 0;">
> 
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/latest; style=3D"color:inheri=
> t;text-decoration:none">9fans
> / 9fans / see
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans;>discussions
> +
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/members;>participants
> +
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription;>delivery o=
> ptions
> https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T89f7af873f4109c5-M6e410=
> 6209d332e9d0ee4651a" style=3D"float:right">Permalink
> 
> =
> 
> --89bce305b064cfb9--

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Re: [9fans] git9: https support

[Steve Simon]

fwiw i run something approximating 9legacy -the labs kernel with some patches. 
i run 9front’s webfs. it it better in every way.

-Steve


> On 10 Feb 2020, at 1:49 pm, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> due to popular demand (...and my own need), I got around
>> to implementing https support in git9. both pull and push
>> should work.
>> 
>> if someone could test on 9legacy, I'd appreciate it.
>> 
> 
> main concern: differences in the webfs implementation.
> 

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Re: [9fans] notes on fossil, ANTS, and 9front/Bell labs controversies

[Steve Simon]

using tlssrv is an option, as is import, but what was saying it fossil’s native 
9p server does not support tls, which it doesn't - i dont believe anyone has 
added it.

the issue is 9boot would need tls to be able download the kernel from a file 
server and it doesn’t have it. this is the labs boot procedure of course.

9front booting uses a full kernel to bootstrap (correct me if i am wrong) so 
tls is not a problem there.

anyway, fossil does not have tls and i would like to have. such a change would 
mean changes to the labs distro boot proceedure

-Steve


> On 11 Jan 2020, at 10:42 am, Rodrigo G. López  wrote:
> 
> 
> i'm sorry, what? lack of TLS?
> 
> go read 9front's tlssrv(8). it's been there for a while already.
> 
> 
> -rodri
> 
>> On Sat, Jan 11, 2020, 11:32 AM Steve Simon  wrote:
>> 
>> fyi i have been running a fossil/venti pair since 2004 and it has been solid.
>> 
>> what is too big - honest question.
>> 
>> i thought the biggest issues are:
>> 
>> performance - the elegance and generality sacrifice some performance, though 
>> this is not a problem for me.
>> 
>>  lack of a tls fs interface - there is (imho) no excuse for a lack of tls 
>> these days.
>> 
>> no way for a user in (say) the ventidump group to request an immediate dump 
>> - handy for checkpointing a code release, though justing copying the release 
>> to a new dir is ok.
>> 
>> no way to push a vac score into the /archive hierarchy - nice for migrating 
>> in other backups.
>> 
>> all these are fixable and on my todo list but none have happened.
>> 
>> > On 10 Jan 2020, at 9:37 pm, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > 
>> > 
>> >> 
>> >> The major fly in the ointment is the outdated sha1 hash function used by 
>> >> venti
>> > 
>> > major? fly? there's no problem with how sha1 is used by venti right now.
>> > 
>> > a more substantial complaint would be that the venti/fossil system is
>> > way too big.
> 
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] notes on fossil, ANTS, and 9front/Bell labs controversies

[Steve Simon]

fyi i have been running a fossil/venti pair since 2004 and it has been solid.

what is too big - honest question.

i thought the biggest issues are:

performance - the elegance and generality sacrifice some performance, though 
this is not a problem for me.

 lack of a tls fs interface - there is (imho) no excuse for a lack of tls these 
days.

no way for a user in (say) the ventidump group to request an immediate dump - 
handy for checkpointing a code release, though justing copying the release to a 
new dir is ok.

no way to push a vac score into the /archive hierarchy - nice for migrating in 
other backups.

all these are fixable and on my todo list but none have happened.

> On 10 Jan 2020, at 9:37 pm, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> The major fly in the ointment is the outdated sha1 hash function used by 
>> venti
> 
> major? fly? there's no problem with how sha1 is used by venti right now.
> 
> a more substantial complaint would be that the venti/fossil system is
> way too big.

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[9fans] go on plan9 - what doesn’t work?, ports list?

[Steve Simon]

hi

i am interested to hear from in those using go under plan9.

what doesn't work? i know the build servers confirm the nightly build but they 
cannot check everything.

for example, does multicast work? if so does it work on x86, amd64, and arm 
(pi)?

secondly, is there a ports list, or a list of packages and apps successfully 
built?

i am toying with moving to plan9 as my main go development platform (for work). 
this sits on etcd, nats, and protobufs which should be straightforward, but 
also needs multicast which is a bit of a dusty corner in plan9.

i would also like to run a DLNA server for music and movies on plan9. there is 
a nifty ine in go (DMS) but anyone already tried porting it?

thanks for any/all help,

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] Gmail vs upas

[Steve Simon]

hi,

i receive mail on plan9 so i dont use gmail.

you sure you didn't forget to install a new x509 thumbprint in 
/sys/lib/tls/mail?

-Steve

On 28 Nov 2019, at 3:40 pm, Steven Stallion  wrote:
> 
> All,
> 
> Is anyone still fetching Gmail these days? After bringing my old
> fileserver back online I noticed that mail delivery seems to be
> broken. Both getpop3 and upas/fs are complaining of invalid
> certificates, which is leading me to think I need to make some updates
> to the list of trusted certificates.
> 
> Any ideas?
> Steve

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[9fans] mice

[Steve Simon]

We where discussing mice for plan9.

I have just about given up on the apple magic mouse, its a shame,
having the nice swipe features is cool but its just too unreliable at
detecting middle button clicks to be usable with sam.
This maybe due to the MagicPerfs software I used.

I have however found a cheap alternative:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Optical-3-Button-Mouse-With-Side-Scroll-Wheel-USB-3-Button-Mouse-send-mouse-pad/302784849165

This is basicially a rip off of the contour mouse. Thehey work fine with plan9,
my only complaint is they are a little small for my hand - I will probably buy 
a contour
mouse one of these days.

-Steve

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[9fans] plan9port on osx

[Steve Simon]

hi,

i cannot find a plan9port maillist, so i am asking here.

anyone using plan9port on osx? if so which mouse are you using? i am fighting 
with a magic mouse2 which, with the addition of the magicperfs app can do both 
scrolling and 3 buttons.

sadly the middle button support is buggy an often misfires. 

anyone found better software, or do i have just go back to traditional mouse?

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] banishment of nuisance IP addresses

[Steve Simon]

no “fw” not sure what that is.

as it happens i turned off ipv6 last night. it was causing problems with smtp 
which i fail to understand, maybe tls certificate, i am not sure.

the banishment code works fine for ipv6

-Steve


> On 5 Nov 2019, at 10:02 am, Sergey Zhilkin  wrote:
> 
> 
> I wonder  if it will be system with IPv6 enabled and connected directly 
> to internet. 
> There is no fw in plan 9  
> May be time to think about it ?
> 
> вт, 29 окт. 2019 г. в 14:27, Steve Simon :
>> re: anyone can banish ano IP address
>> 
>> You are quite right, not a problem for me, but not a general solution.
>> 
>> Ok, chmod og-w /lib/ndb/banished first.
>> 
>> I could then write a file server, envoked in cpurc as bootes and thus
>> has rights to update the files in /lib/ndb/banished/*.
>> 
>> The file server would have to ensure its /srv/xxx file is not accessable
>> by others.
>> 
>> This could be mounted by the network listners before they becomenone() so
>> they retain access. They would also need to ensure they unmount
>> the writable access to the banishment directory before starting their
>> child process (if the incomming connection is successful).
>> 
>> ugh. Even _if_ that would work its a real pain.
>> 
>> oh well, nice idea, but no bananna.
>> 
>> -Steve
> 
> 
> -- 
> С наилучшими пожеланиями
> Жилкин Сергей
> With best regards
> Zhilkin Sergey
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

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Re: [9fans] banishment of nuisance IP addresses

[Steve Simon]

re: anyone can banish ano IP address

You are quite right, not a problem for me, but not a general solution.

Ok, chmod og-w /lib/ndb/banished first.

I could then write a file server, envoked in cpurc as bootes and thus
has rights to update the files in /lib/ndb/banished/*.

The file server would have to ensure its /srv/xxx file is not accessable
by others.

This could be mounted by the network listners before they becomenone() so
they retain access. They would also need to ensure they unmount
the writable access to the banishment directory before starting their
child process (if the incomming connection is successful).

ugh. Even _if_ that would work its a real pain.

oh well, nice idea, but no bananna.

-Steve

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[9fans] banishment of nuisance IP addresses

[Steve Simon]

Hi all,

I still run a plan9 server attached to the net. I have always
had attacks from bots, viruses, script kiddies etc. and decided
to do something to reduce the load on my system - some attacks can be
quite persistant.

I have taken the idea from the linux log2ban script but I implemented it
a rather differently. 

I added two functions to libsec (for want of a better place), nuisance()
and banished(). the former allows you to log a failed authentication attempt,
dropped TLS connection etc. the latter tests for too many failures and drops
connections from repeat offenders.

nuisance() adds a single character (indicating the type of failure, 't' for TLS 
drop,
'a' for authentication failure etc), to an append only file in /lib/ndb/banished
named with the source IP address that is connecting. if that file gets too long
the address is becomes persona non-grata.

I have a cron jonb that deletes banishment files that have not been modified 
for a month
on the basis that hackers and bots get rounded up eventually.

I added these calls to dnstcp, listen, tlssrv, imap4d, httpd, smtpd, and 
secstored.
This is enough to cover all the network listners I have, and it works well, but 
feels
a little crude. I would be interested if anyone has a more elegant solution.

-Steve
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#include 
#include 

static char *bandir = "/lib/ndb/banished";

/* Log that this ipaddr, (or ipaddr!port) may be causing a nuisance */
int
nuisance(char *addr, char c)
{
int fd, len;
char *p, *path;

if(!addr || !*addr)
return -1;

len = strlen(addr);
if((p = strchr(addr, '!')) != nil)
len = p - addr;

path = smprint("%s/%.*s", bandir, len, addr);
if((fd = open(path, OWRITE)) == -1)
fd = create(path, OWRITE, 0666|DMAPPEND);
free(path);

if(fd == -1){
return -1;
}

write(fd, , 1);
close(fd);
return 0;
}

/* Has this ipaddr, (or ipaddr!port) caused too much of a nuisance */
int
banished(char *addr, int thresh)
{
Dir *d;
int n, len;
char *p, *path;

if(!addr || !*addr)
return 0;

len = strlen(addr);
if((p = strchr(addr, '!')) != nil)
len = p - addr;

path = smprint("%s/%.*s", bandir, len, addr);
d = dirstat(path);
free(path);

if(d == nil)
return 0;
n = d->length;
free(d);

if(n < thresh)
return 0;
return 1;
}

Re: [9fans] Request for (constructive?) comments: Plan 9 : 2020

[Steve Simon]

hi,

i love the idea, what concerns me is the cost of a flight from the UK to 
Michigan.

we shall see what tickets i can find.

-Steve


> On 23 Oct 2019, at 6:49 am, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Jeff (jas) and I have been chatting about organizing a "Plan 9 : 2020"
>> workshop.  We're trying to gauge everyone's interest, and to solicit agenda
>> items, venue suggestions, and hopefully volunteers to help organize it.
> 
> I'd be interested in attending, and I don't mind taking some time to
> help organize.
> 
>> If you have a different suggestion, or are willing to offer a venue, please
>> comment.
> 
> Some of us have also been talking about planning an OpenBSD-style
> hackathon.  (OpenBSD hackathons: Get developers in a room, and write
> code for a week, exchanging ideas, trying to get commits into base and
> ports.  Beer is usually involved.)
> 
> We'd discussed putting together something like that for Plan 9 in the
> first half of 2020. Anyone hacking on Plan 9 related code would be
> welcome.
> 
> I don't know if this is a different suggestion so much as a different
> event.  Experience implies that merging the two together may be a bit
> too much in one shot.
> 
> Expect a post about that when we start sorting out the details.
> 

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[9fans] lets encrypt

[Steve Simon]

hi

anyone using let's encrypt to generate signed certificates for tls, and is 
using a scripted interface on plan9 to refresh them every 60 days?

care to share the details.

-Steve



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[9fans] auth server on a different port

[Steve Simon]

hi

first - hello new email relay!

anyone managed to contact an auth server in a different port than the standard 
one?

i am trying to do something like:

cpu -u user@tcp!auth.domain.dom!authport -h tcp!cpu.site.dom!cpuport 
 
but this doesn't work for me. i have an authdom entry in /lib/ndb but maybe the 
auth entry that ties to needs to have tcp!host!port ?

ta,

-Steve



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Re: [9fans] building Alef language

[Steve Simon]

if you mount an iso containing a _CONFORM.MAP on plan9 with 9660srv it 
translates the filenames for you.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] building Alef language

[Steve Simon]

> http://9p.io/sources/contrib/steve/historic/2nd-edition/pcdist/README 
t


that was my stuff, but its only the documentation that was published,
not the code. there was a single floppy
demo which might be around.

I do have a 2nd edition license but i would not release the code without 
sign-off from lucent, nokia, or whoever owns the code these days.

bell-labs payed for the research work that produced plan9 and respect them (and 
their licensing terms) fir doing so.

-Steve




> On 25 Sep 2019, at 7:40 am, Sergey Zhilkin  wrote:
> 
> 2nd Ed are still around 
> http://9p.io/sources/contrib/steve/historic/2nd-edition/pcdist/README 
> If it was putted on contrib sources - no one have concerns, i think.
> 
> вт, 24 сент. 2019 г. в 14:57, Rodrigo G. López :
>> i think both henesy and BurnZeZ ran 1st and 2nd Ed at some point.
>> i'm not aware of any license requirement, but do they (Nokia) even care?
>> 
>>> On Tue, Sep 24, 2019, 1:26 PM hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> who is selling those licenses?
>>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> С наилучшими пожеланиями
> Жилкин Сергей
> With best regards
> Zhilkin Sergey

Re: [9fans] building Alef language

[Steve Simon]

You need a license to run the 1st and 2nd ed.

The 2nd ed books/cds (and thus the license) have not been printed for a long 
time.

the images may have leaked but i think we should still try to respect the terms 
of the license.

-Steve


> On 23 Sep 2019, at 2:01 am, Sean Hinchee  wrote:
> 
> You could also just run 2e in a VM and show it off there :)
> 
> 2e can be coaxed into running under virtualbox, even.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sean
> 
>> On 9/22/19 12:46 AM, Phil Kulin wrote:
>> You right. I am preparing slides for my report on upcoming
>> GolangConf-2019 in Moscow. I need Alef, libthread and Limbo for
>> explaining some golang features.
>>> On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 6:16 AM Lucio De Re  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have a version for legacy Plan 9, lightly tested, that I have not
>>> looked at in ages.
>>> 
>>> Happy to haul it out, but I see little value in it. Go may have
>>> idiosyncrasies, but it is much more suited to modern architectures.
>>> That said, had Go not surfaced, I would have much preferred Alef to
>>> many other options.
>>> 
>>> Don't forget the rationale for dropping Alef: support for the
>>> language, across many architectures and including many libraries would
>>> have been crippling.
>>> 
>>> Both of those are now Go's strong suits.
>>> 
>>> Lucio.
>>> 
>>> PS: A tar archive may be on sources under "proxima" - it's been a long time.
>>> 

Re: [9fans] go under plan9 on the radpberry pi?

[Steve Simon]

hi,

thanks richard, this is perfect

i could not have asked for more.

-Steve


On 20 Sep 2019, at 9:43 am, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:

>> Only lightly tested.
> 
> In a sense, plan9/arm go is tested as well as any other platform:
> under the go continuous development process, every time a change
> is made to the compiler or runtime library, a complete test suite
> is run on builder machines for every supported architecture and
> operating system.  If you look at https://build.golang.org and
> scroll wa over to the right, the plan9/arm column refers
> to a set of Raspberry Pi machines run by David du Columbier and me.
> 
> In another sense, it's probably not very well tested at all:
> I'm not aware of any production application being run on go in
> Plan 9, on any machine architecture.  I haven't used go seriously
> myself, but I find the test suite gives the OS such a brutal workout
> (especially with small physical memory) that it's a good way
> to flush out underlying Plan 9 bugs.
> 
> The tests show some intermittent hard-to-reproduce failures ("flakes")
> on all the Plan 9 builders.  Many are timing issues because the tests
> make assumptions about absolute speed of builder machines; but there
> are some "can't happen" panics during garbage collection which smell
> like a cache or memory barrier problem.  Please don't use plan9/arm
> go to run your nuclear power plant just yet ...
> 

Re: [9fans] go under plan9 on the radpberry pi?

[Steve Simon]

hi,

my plan was to build and run/debug go on a raspberry pi 4 running plan9, not to 
cross compile.

i am confident in the linux cross compile environment i was just concerned 
about the plan9 os/runtime support for the pi.

i guess it comes down to plan9 os interface for the arm.

people said it is painful, you mean the pi is slow?

thanks for the help.

-Steve

> On 20 Sep 2019, at 5:37 am, Lyndon Nerenberg  wrote:
> 
> Matthew Veety writes:
> 
>> Building anything on a raspberry pi is a bit of a chore. I highly=20
>> recommend running go on your cpu server and/or local to your filesystem.=20
>> The generated binaries seem to work fine.
> 
> Go does wonderfully when it comes to generating binaries for
> non-native architectures.  I have a few Go-based tools I use at
> work that I build on any number of archictures (macos, freebsd,
> openbsd, linux / armX, i386, amd64)) that I need to run on one or
> many of the above.  They all just work.  Makes debugging a breeze.
> 
> But now that they are succumbing to the shared lib/obj doctrine, I'm sure
> I will soon go back to writing C code, since the advantage of those
> static go binaries is about to be lost :-(

[9fans] go under plan9 on the radpberry pi?

[Steve Simon]

hi all,

does go run under plan9 on the radpberry pi or only on x86?

thanks,

-Steve

Re: [9fans] raspberry pi 4 arm64 test image

[Steve Simon]

hi all

just to say i am very excited abou the pi4 port but am on holiday in France at 
the moment so i cannot even help with testing.

-Steve


On 22 Aug 2019, at 9:07 am, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:

>> oh dear. i dont even know the expected physical memory map...
>> i guess that ram is continuous block at [0-0xfc00). but
>> some memory might be reserved...
> 
> No, the framebuffer is always reserved at the top of the
> first 1GB, so on 2GB and 4GB units there are two separate
> regions.
> 
>> - atags
>> - device tree /memory/reg property
>> - firmware property request (getramsize() in vcore.c)
>> 
>> for me getramsize() returns zero for both base and limit so its
>> completely useless.
> 
> That's strange, getramsize works on my 2GB pi4:
>getramsize 0 1046478848
> 
> The same values are in atags (you need 'device_tree=' in config.txt
> to make the firmware pass atags instead of devicetree).
> 

[9fans] 5c bug

[Steve Simon]

Hi,

I traced a long standing cifs issue to 5c the compiler.

The code in lib9p to validate wstat calls
uses a neat bit of casting which fails when using 5c.

/sys/src/lib9p/srv.c:658-669

These following lines missfire reporting type or qid change
when trying to rename files over cifs.

if((ushort)~r->d.type){
...
if((uchar)~r->d.qid.type || .. ){

but rewriting them like this makes the code work as expected:

if(r->d.type != (ushort)~0){
...
if(r->d.qid.type != (uchar)~0 || ... )

Personally I am happy to hack lib9p but the worry is that
this bug might be affecting other things.

I have no knowledge of the internals of the compilers so
I am afraid I have made no attempt to dig deeper.

-Steve

Re: [9fans] Git/fs: Possibly Usable

[Steve Simon]

I agree 100%, well done Ori, I will be trying this soon,
I am in the process of changing jobs at the moment so
I am a bit distracted but the new job will include git so I
Will be needing it.

-Steve


> On 12 Jul 2019, at 19:27, Patrick Marchand  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ori,
> 
> On 07/08, Ori Bernstein wrote:
>> On Mon, 1 Apr 2019 21:41:09 -0700
>> o...@eigenstate.org wrote:
>> 
>>> It was mentioned on this list a short while ago. Now, it's
>>> more or less at the point where it works for me. Expect
>>> many bugs and problems, and many more missing tools, but
>>> "the rest is just scripting".
>> 
>> An update: I'm now using this git implementation on a daily
>> basis. It's hosting its own development now, and tons of
>> bugs have been fixed.
>> 
> 
> Good job ! Cant wait to get the chance to play around with it. I'll
> be installing a plan9 server at my home next month so I'll be able
> to test in detail then.
> 
> Have a good day