Re: [abcusers] [OT] The Scottish schottische
Randall J Elzinga wrote: (lots of interesting things and a few *very* nice links) Steve Wyrick wrote: (even more interesting info) Just a belated thank you to Randall and Steve for their help, and in case somebody missed the Scott Skinner site Randall mentioned: http://www.abdn.ac.uk/scottskinner/ A must for anybody insterested in Scottish traditional music. Cheers Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] [OT] The Scottish schottische
I suppose I shouldn't bother the list with questions that strictly speaking have nothing to do with abc, but since there are so many British music experts here, I take the chance: As far as official kowledge goes, the schottische (and the ecossaise) is a continental 18th/19th Century attempt to imitate Scottish music, about as genuine as a von Bismarck tartan. Yet in a early 20th Century collection of Scottish fiddle tunes I found Orange and Blue (usually known as a strathspey) presented as a Highland Schottische. What does that mean? The Scots trying to imitate Scottish music? Did the dance at some point make it to its assumed home country? Or does the schottische actually have some genuine roots in the highlands? And since I'm bothering you all anyway: is there any difference between a strathspey and a highland reel? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.abc-notation.com http://www.online-guitarist.com http://www.tablatvre.com http://www.mandolin-player.com http://www.blues-harmonica.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://www.blues-banjo.com http://www.folk-banjo.com http://www.roarogfrank.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] somebody on this list has a virus
One comment about virus protection. About a week ago I accidentally activated Norton Antivirus on my computer. Too me a few days before I realised why my computer was running so slow and deactivated it again. During that period, Norton didn't catch a single one of the many viruses I got. Now, this *may* be because Norton for Mac isn't set up to catch Windows viruses, but I've heard others comment on similar things. Norton seems to be by far the most popular anti-virus program for Windows, and it seems it's not really up to the task. :-( So, all Windows users: don't trust the virus protection that came with your computer or with your internet subscription. Go out and get something more effective (and possibly something that doesn't slow your computer down to a crawl as well. ;-) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.tablatvre.com http://www.mandolin-player.com http://www.blues-harmonica.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://www.blues-banjo.com Jon Freeman wrote: From: Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] I just got a virus bounce message from Freeserve; their virus checker was under the impression that [EMAIL PROTECTED] had sent one of their users an infected message. This list was not itself involved: they quoted some of the headers back to me and they show that the virus used my address as the putative sender. That address is only used for this list, and it's unlikely that messages containing it will have propagated far beyond it. So, there must be a list reader using Windows and Outlook Express with a virus. Among the readers of this list that is *not* a common setup, most of us know better - so if that's what you've got, check what your system is doing. Well for what it's worth, as I am one of those users most of the time (sometimes I'm on Linux), I've just updated my AV pattern file (I update regularly anyway) and ran a full scan and got a clean bill of health. Sometimes I wonder where they pick names up from. I have had a few of these lately: Dear user, the management of Folkinfo.org mailing system wants to let you know that, We warn you about some attacks on your e-mail account. Your computer may contain viruses, in order to keep your computer and e-mail account safe, please, follow the instructions. Please, read the attach for further details. Password - Have a good day, The Folkinfo.org team http://www.folkinfo.org; They come from [EMAIL PROTECTED], an email address that doesn't exist and never has existed... Jon To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] DCU
Does anybody know what happened to the DCU (Dublin City University) Tradtitional Music Soceiety web site? There used to be a nice collection of abc tunes and abc resources there, but now it's just an empty front page. :-( Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.tablatvre.com http://www.mandolin-player.com http://www.blues-harmonica.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://www.blues-banjo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] DCU
Thanks Calum! :-) Yes, archive.org is always a good resource to have. But it doesn't help me in this case. The question was really about the abc applications search engine and the abc site directory. Should I just remove the links or is it a new URL? Frank Calum Galleitch wrote: Depending on the format it was in, try archive.org - this can be *very* handy for finding ex-web pages. Only thing is, it doesn't cope very well with scripted sites, like, say, JC's tune finder. Cheers, Calum On Friday 19 March 2004 09:40, Frank Nordberg wrote: Does anybody know what happened to the DCU (Dublin City University) Tradtitional Music Soceiety web site? To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Blow, blow, thou winter wind
Steve Mansfield wrote: Come to the open air theatre season at Gawsworth Hall near Macclesfield, England, 22-26th June, to find out what we come up with :-) Would love to, but I guess a trip corss the NOrth Sea is out of question for me this year. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://www.blues-banjo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Blow, blow, thou winter wind
Steve Mansfield wrote: Help please! Can anyone point me at any settings (other than Thomas Arne's) of the song 'Blow, blow, thou winter wind' from Shakespeare's As You Like It? There's nothing coming up on JC's tune finder. There is an anonymous tune from the time of Shakespeare (possibly even the one used by Shakespeare) in John Runge's It was a lover and his lass - a collection of original songs from Shakespeare's plays arranged for voice and guitar. I believe the same tune also is in Edward W. Naylor's great 1898 book Shakespeare and Music. Unfortunately I seem to have lost my copy of Runge's collection, and the Naylor book I found at a public library a thousand kilometers away from where I live today, so I can't help you much more than that. I don't know whether Morley set it, he certainly did 'There Was A Lover And His Lass'. He definitely didn't. It was a lover and his lass is the only known work by Morley with any Shakespeare association at all, and even then there's no reason to believe it to be anything more than that the two just happened to pick up and use the same poem. Morley doesn't seem to have been involved in theatre/masque at all. That field was mainly left for the younger generation of Elizabethan composers like John Coprario, Robert Johnson and to some extent the Campian/Rosseter duo and John Dowland. If you're looking for original Shakespeare music in general, Robert Johnson would be the composer to check out. There seem to be strong evidence that some of his songs (including Hark, hark the lark, Where the bee sucks and Full fathom five) were indeed the ones used by Shakespeare. First you should try to locate a copy of Naylor's book though. And don't let the publishing date put you off. Yes, it was written during a period when objetivity was a virtue virtually unkown among musicologists, but Naylor was unique - with a understanding and *respect* for his sources decades ahead of his contemporaries. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://www.blues-banjo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] name that mazurka
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Can someone provide me with a name for, and possibly a better rendition of the following (I think) mazurka: I have it in my collection as A Donegal Mazurka (from Ulster!???!!!) Don't know much more about it. Just found a sheet in the slush pile by the photocopyer at a school where I used to work. X:1 T:A Donegal mazurka C:anon. O:Ireland A:Ulster?? R:Mazurka M:3/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4=190 K:G D GA|:GB2BA GE|GDB, D2DD|CECE2EE|GDB, DD GA| GB2BA GE|GDB,D2DD|DE2F2D2|GG2GSD GA:| |:GB2B2dB|D7cBc2DF|D7A2A2dc|GBG BD GA| GB2B2dB|D7cBc2DF|D7A2Ad cA|[1GG2GSD GA:|[2GG2G|] Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://www.blues-banjo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Jon Freeman wrote: OK, so I've not long back changed folkinfo to at least enable those who premit cookies to select a preference between letter and A4 for printing pdf files from the site. Should I also consider allowing 9 x 12 as a paper size or is that pretty much reserved for publications? I don't think that should be necessary. A4 seems to be the standard paper size all over the world. USA and Canada are the only important exceptions, and they both go for US letter. For those who are interested in further reading about the topic, try: http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/iso-paper.html Cheers Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.irish-banjo.com http://wwwblues-banjo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps questions
Bernard Hill wrote: I don't think there should be any standard for paper size - you should be allowed to specify your own. I can symphatize with that view. There are some practical issues involved though. For example, when you post documents on an internet site for the visitors to print out themselves, you often need them and/or want them to be formatted in one specific way which means you need to know what paper size the visitor will print the document on. Having to take two different paper sizes into account when creating the documents is more than enough of a time-waster. (In fact this discussion has led me to the conclusion that I'm not gonna waste more time on that anymore. From now on all PDF files produced for Musica Viva will be optimalized for A4 prints. If users want to print on some local/personal paper size, it's their problem, not mine.) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Drone notes
Bill Taffe wrote:
Hi All,
Please excuse a novice question. I have some music where I'd like to put
in drone notes.
You can write the drone notes as a separate abc voice.
Unfortunately, BarFly and abcm2ps are the currently only abc
applications that allow you to notate multiple voices on a single staff.
Here's an example how you can do it with BarFly. Maybe some abcm2ps user
here can give the syntax for abcm2ps.
Frank Nordberg
http://www.musicaviva.com
X:4249
T:Ungarescha
C:anon.
O:Hungary/Italy
B:Giorgio Mainerio: Il primo libro de balli (1578)
N:Repeats written out in full in the original
R:Ungarescha
Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com
V:1 Up
V:2 Down Merge
M:C|
L:1/4
Q:1/2=125
K:Gmix
V:1
G{F}GAG|GD{G}DE/F/|G{D}GAG|D2{G/E/}D2::B{A}B{A}BA/B/|
V:2
G,4-|G,4-|G,4-|G,4::G,4-|
%
V:1
cBAG|B{A}B{A}BA/B/|cBAc|BGAG/F/|G2{D}G2:|
V:2
G,4-|G,4-|G,4-|G,4-|G,4:|
%
V:1
M:3/4
L:1/4
Q:3/4=125
^SaltarelloG2{D/E/F/}G|{D}G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|
V:2
M:3/4
L:1/4
G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|
%
V:1
G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|G2A|G2D|{G}D2E/F/|G2A|
V:2
G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|
%
V:1
G2D|{G}D3|:B2{D/G/A/}B|{D}B2A/B/|c2B|A2G|B2{D/G}B|
V:2
G,3-|G,3|:G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|
%
V:1
{D}B2A/B/|c2B|A2c|B2G|A2G/F/|G3|{D}G3:|
V:2
G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3-|G,3:|
W:
W:
W: From Musica Viva - http://www.musicaviva.com
W: the Internet center for free sheet music downloads.
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Re: [abcusers] ABC sites
Forgeot Eric wrote: I've updated the Free Sheet Music Directory /.../ Did I miss any? I have a small website with a few (500) hometranscribed tunes : http://anamnese.online.fr/abc/ Sorry Eric. Your site already is listed in the directory, but only in the traditional music categories. I'll add it to the abc category as well, of course. Cheers Frank http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC to HTML viewer
Great work, Norman, I've added it to the ABC applicatins database (http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcapp/index.tpl - in case somebody' forgot ;-) Keep up the good work! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.tablatvre.com Norman Schmidt wrote: Hi everyone, After not finding a plugin for my browser to read abc files directly from the internet, I have taken the viewing engine I wrote for ABassC on the Palm and PockePC and ported it to HTML. The result is at www.normanschmidt.net/abassc.php . You have to copy/paste the ABC text and press a button; but I find it useful when, say your on a machine without BarFly or abcm2ps installed. Cheers, Norman To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: Tune identification
Peter Yarensky wrote: Since I get the digest I hesitate to respond in case 20 others already have, well not 20 - only two onlist and two offlist, but thanks anyway! :-) but just in case, it's the Rakes of Mallow - great tune! It is. I'm planning to hook it up with Irish Rover (stole that idea from somewhere - don't remember who). Let's if anybody in the audience can manage to stay seated through that combo ;-) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.irish-banjo.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] ABC sites
I've updated the Free Sheet Music Directory ( http://www.musicaviva-com/fsmd/index.tpl ) with a number of new sites. The ABC category now includes 153(!) sites. Did I miss any? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com The ABC sites listed in the free sheet music directory are: http://abc.sourceforge.net/ http://abc2win.com/ http://abcplus.sourceforge.net http://adactio.com/session/session1.abc http://alan-ng.net/alan/ http://alfarrabio.di.uminho.pt/mteca/ http://alfarrabio.um.geira.pt/cancioneiro/ http://archive.woodenflute.com/ http://diato.org/tablat.htm http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~cobb/ http://faeryland.tamu-commerce.edu/joyce/ http://famdeboer.www.cistron.nl/bagpipe.html http://flanders.blackmill.net/music http://Fox.nstn.ca:80/~mgasikn/violin.html http://graner.net/nicolas/arbeau/ http://hjem.get2net.dk/widell/ http://home.clara.net/gmatkin/tunes.htm http://home.primus.com.au/timbarker/ http://home.t-online.de/home/Markus_Lutz/atari.html http://home.t-online.de/home/pheld/ http://homepage.calypso.net/~ci-18034/page56.html http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~dexy/celtic.htm http://ifdo.pugmarks.com/~seymour/runabc/top.html http://irishtunes.net/irishtunes.html http://kazimodal.trad.org/ http://members.aol.com/boynehunt/ceili.html http://members.aol.com/LewesArmsFolk/Lewesfav.html http://members.aol.com/somido/abcsongs.html http://members.chello.at/simon.wascher/homepage_abc.htm http://members.cox.net/eskin/tunebook.html http://members.rogers.com/alf0/index.htm http://members.tripod.com/~Rosin_the_bow/tunes.html http://members.xoom.com/Leffidd/ http://moinejf.free.fr/ http://msg.wins.uva.nl/~walstra/ABCArchive/ http://natura.di.uminho.pt/~jj/musica/ http://people.we.mediaone.net/brunodale/dances.html http://perso.club-internet.fr/banwarth/ http://perso.club-internet.fr/ocoronel/ http://personales.alcavia.net/~jmoreno/tw/ http://perun.hscs.wmin.ac.uk/~jra/ http://pw2.netcom.com/~crfowler/pcorner.htm http://rigel.csuchico.edu/~pubscout/songs.html http://shiva.soltec.net/~daglenn/conctina.html http://site.voila.fr/diatomanche/ http://sniff.numachi.com/~rickheit/dtrad/ http://tnt.vianet.on.ca/pages/rickere http://trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/ http://tunedb.woodenflute.com/ http://users.erols.com/olsonw/ http://users.skynet.be/infants/musiques/ http://w3.one.net/~rsim/ http://web.kyoto-inet.or.jp/people/ohgaki/sainak/sainak.html http://web.syr.edu/~htkeays/morris/hounds/ http://www.8ung.at/diatonica/abc_eng.html http://www.8ung.at/tradivarium/ http://www.AccordionLinks.com/publisher.cfm http://www.akula.com/~blakeley/music/index.html http://www.argonet.co.uk/users/gatherer/index.html http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~brash/ http://www.banjolin.supanet.com/ http://www.barfly.dial.pipex.com/ http://www.bath.ac.uk/~exxhf/music/music.html http://www.blackflute.com/music/tunes.html http://www.blueskiesink.com/bar-b-q/index.htm http://www.blueskiesink.com/Ormston/default.htm http://www.blueskiesink.com/reavy/ http://www.bolick.net/Music/index.html http://www.braeburn.co.uk/abc.htm http://www.c7r.com/ http://www.c7r.com/abc/milwsun1.abc http://www.calweb.com/~ndlxs/dulcimer.html http://www.capecod.net/~bblack/ http://www.celticmusic.co.nz/greenman/mark/ http://www.celticmusic.com/roger_landes/dragon_reels.shtml http://www.ceolas.org/tunes/ http://www.chivalry.com http://www.cnnw.net/~oneil/ http://www.co-mando.com/ http://www.comhaltas.interweb.ie/ http://www.concertina.net/ http://www.conntras.org http://www.continuo.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~sca/src/contributed/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/dance/playford.html http://www.cranfordpub.com/ http://www.cranfordpub.com/tunes/abcs http://www.cri.ensmp.fr/~keryell/trad/partitions/partitions.html http://www.dinglehall.freeserve.co.uk/kyoy/ http://www.downie65.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.fff.at/fff/dance/ http://www.firepowr.com/ http://www.flatpicker.com http://www.formulus.com/hymns/abc2gif.html http://www.g8ina.enta.net/index.htm http://www.geocities.com/~cliff_moses/ http://www.geocities.com/Athens/6464/hmpg.html http://www.geocities.com/bertvv/en/index.html http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/Delta/4766/index.html http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5567/playford.txt http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/7088/ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/ http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9618/winder.html http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Lofts/6812/ http://www.geocities.com/srdif28/bagpipe-page.html http://www.geocities.com/titoasturies/ http://www.gradcenter.marlboro.edu/~mahoney http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/ http://www.hslc.org/~gormley http://www.ihp-ffo.de/~msm/ http://www.iland.net/~bshull/NAFA/ http://www.imp.f2s.com/nyfte/ http://www.laymusic.org/ http://www.leeds.ac.uk/music/Info/RRTuneBk/tunebook.html http://www.lesession.vcisp.net/index.htm http://www.logeny.com/abctwin.htm http://www.manchester-morris.freeserve.co.uk/ http://www.mandolin.u-net.com/abctunes.htm http://www.mbay.net/~brendah/articles/PDA.Jul.96/ http://www.mcdonaldstrings.com/ http
Re: [abcusers] Tune identification
Thanks Richard and David! And thanks to those who replied offlist (I assume they don't want their names mentioned here) Frank http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.blues-banjo.com http://www.tablatvre.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC sites
Steve Mansfield wrote: Still going strong, but now at http://www.lesession.co.uk Aargh! I was *sure* I had remembered to update that URL. Sorry Steve! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com http://www.blues-banjo.com http://www.tablatvre.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Tune identification
Can anybody help me identifying this tune? I'm pretty sure I *should* know it, but can't place it! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com X:1 T:? C:? O:? R:Polka? M:C L:1/8 Q:1/4=180 K:G G.G.B.G.B .G.B c/B/A/G/|D7.F.A.F.A .F.A d/c/B/A/|\ G.G.B.G.B .G.B d3/B/|Cc/B/A/G/ D7FA/c/ GB.GG2:| |:Ggf/e/ .d.c B.cd2|Ggf/e/ .d.c D7B.cA2|\ Ggf/e/ .d.c B.c d3/B/|Cc/B/A/G/ D7FA/c/ GB.GG2:| To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc for Pocket PC
Arent Storm wrote: From: Derek Bone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 11:19 PM Subject: RE: [abcusers] abc for Pocket PC I've subscribed to the abc user list, but I don't know how to contribute Please could you tell me how to ask a question of the other users ? Youve' just done so ;-) Exactly! Just send a message with your questions, suggestions and/or information to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Just treat everybody with respect and friendliness and try not to stray too far from abc related topics (well, we all *try*) and it'll work out fine. Welcome to our informal and informing list Derek! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Abc notes, midi note numbers and midi percussion sounds
I thought this might come handy to some. I've just added a table of corresponding midi note numbers, standard note names, abc note names and General Midi percussion sounds to Musica Viva at: http://www.musicaviva.com/midi/midinotes.tpl Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
Forgeot Eric wrote: Hello, it's nice to see here posts related to music only :) Do abcusers know also about Wayne Cripps' tab program ? I've noticed it, but since it's not cross-platform compatible, it's pretty useless as a *standard* format. Nice idea, though. Frank Nordberg http://www.muscaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
Forgeot Eric wrote: The sources are provided, so you just have to get a C++ compiler and compile them on your machine. I see your point Eric, but it seems to me you're making a mistake that seems to be a bit too common here: You assume that the average computer user is able to take a C script, run it through a compiler and get a working program right away. This list is heavily dominated by computer programmers, and I suppose for them this kind of things are all in a day's work. The very concept of compiling a program is alien to the vast majority of computer users. Unless you already have some experience in this, you would need quite some self-confidence and a rather desperat need for *that* particular application before you even starts considering going through it all. Even if you do try, the source code of a program can rarely be compiled on a new platform without some tweaking. So sorry, Eric. Although I suppose many of the programmers here will disagree, I wouldn't say an application is available for the average user unless there is a ready-made and *tested* version of it for the OS he/she is using. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature
I. Oppenheim wrote: You claimed in your first e-mail that the application in question wasn't portable, No, I didn't. I said the format (not the application) wasn't cross-platform compatible. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature; being my entry in the ObfuscatedABC Contest
Jack Campin wrote: I have been trying to transcribe a rather obscure, and as far as I know never-before-transcribed, piece of tablature from a Scottish manuscript of about 1680. Always trust Jack to come up with good an unusual music - and interesting challenges :) The MS gives no clue as to what instrument it's for or what the tuning is, ... Hmmm... I may shed some light on that, but first - in case anybody has abctab2ps - here's Jack's original tab translated into abtab X:1 T:Cowgate gigue M:none L:1/4 K:Bmin Clef=french4tab [,d][,c][,b]ba[,d][,][,]cb[,][,]e[,,d]\ [,,d]|[,d][,c][,b]c|[,c]dcbb:|\ |:[,c][,d][,e]b[,b][,b]([,c][,b][,a][,b][,c]) [,a][,,c][,,c][,c][,d][,e]b[,b][,b]bcab[,c]\ [,d][,e]b[,b][,b][,][,c]([,a][,b][,c])[,a]\ [,,c][,,c]bcde[,d][,e]b[,,c][,d][,c][,b][,b]|] --- Now for the instrument: Fifths-tuning seems to be the only one that works. Diatonic frets is pretty obvious too. This almost certainly means it's a small instrument. Diatonic frets create one problem though. I don't know if anybody else spotted the error in Jack's abc transcription. Here's the correct one: X:2 T:Cowgate gigue M:6/4 L:1/4 Q:3/4=100 K:G Minor BAG dcB|=e2d g_EE|B2A G2=e |Af=e d2d:| ABc dGG|AG/F/G/A/ FDD|ABc dGG |d=ec d3 | ABc dGG|AF/G/AFDD|def gB/c/d|DBA G2G|] This doesn't sound very good to my ears at least. There are two possible solutions to that: *Half-frets - The first string has chromatic frets, the other ones diatonic. But this seems to create more problems than it solves, and besides the manuscript seems to be about a hundred years too young for that. So a more likely answer is: *No frets - the player was supposed to know that some of the notes should be fingered slightly lower on the fingerboard. (I don't know of any other examples of French tablature would be used for a fretless instrument, but if it was used (and why shouldn't it?) using the letter a-e for *fingering* seems a very likely solution) So, we have a stringed instrument that: *is relatively small *has four strings *is tuned in fifths *doesn't use the fourth string very much *doesn't have frets *is used for playing jigs *was known and used in late 17th century Scotland Now, what on earth could that be? ;-) Assuming a tuning of GDAE (mind you, it's just a wild guess!) here's what we end up with. (Btw, I've also made a few rhythmic changes to Jack's transcription and halved the note values since 6/8 seems to be a more likely time signature than 6/4 for a late 17th century jig) X:3 T:Cowgate gigue M:6/8 L:1/8 R:jig K:Bmin V:1 dcB fed|g2f bGG|d2c B2g |cag f2f:| |:cde fBB|cB/A/B/c/ AFF|cde fBB |fge f3 | cde fBB|c3/A/B/c/ AFF|fga b3/d/e/f/|Fdc B2B:| X:4 %%tabrhstyle grid T:Cowgate gigue M:6/8 L:1/8 R:jig K:Bmin V:1 dcB fed|g2f bGG|d2c B2g |cag f2f:| |:cde fBB|cB/A/B/c/ AFF|cde fBB |fge f3 | cde fBB|c3/A/B/c/ AFF|fga b3/d/e/f/|Fdc B2B:| V:2 clef=french4tab [,d1][,c1][,b1] b1a1[,d1]|\ c2b1 e1[,,d1][,,d1]|\ [,d2][,c1] [,b2]c1|\ [,c1]d1c1 b2b1:| [,c1][,d1][,e1] b1[,b1][,b1]|\ ([,c1][,b/][,a/][,b/][,c/]) [,a1][,,c1][,,c1]|\ [,c1][,d1][,e1] b1[,b1][,b1]|\ b1c1a1 b3| [,c1][,d1][,e1] b1[,b1][,b1]|\ [,c3/]([,a/][,b/][,c/]) [,a1][,,c1][,,c1]|\ b1c1d1 e3/[,d/][,e/]b/|\ [,,c1][,d1][,c1] [,b2][,b1]|] Frank Nodberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature; being my entry in the ObfuscatedABC Contest
Phil Taylor wrote: Fascinating! I always knew that somebody would come up for a use for the middle directive which involved shifting the notes by an amount different from an Seems I got so preoccupied with actual music that I missed a vital point in his posting: I really hope you're not trying to make a new system for tablature in abc that is incompatible with the already existing abctab! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC as Tablature; being my entry in the ObfuscatedABC Contest
Phil Taylor wrote: The second part of the tune sounds good, but I'm not convinced by the first part. It's mainly the big interval from g to E which sounds odd. I don't know. It sounded odd to me too at first, but now I really like that detail. Then again, we're used to hearing tunes composed for the fiddle, where that would be a difficult interval to play. On a diatonically - fretted instrument tuned in the way you suggest it would be perfectly easy, and might have been common in tunes of the day. The mystery deepens! I more or less stated in a previous post that the fiddle was indeed the original instrument for this tune, but Phil is right: that passage would be really difficult on a bowed instrument. Even so - I can't find a way to correct Jack's typo and retain a musically satisfying result without removing the frets. Does anybody know of a plucked fretless instrument from that period? Or does anybody have a different solution to the problem? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Tune identification
Here's a passage Steeleye Span used as an interlude to All around my
hat. Does anybody know if it's based on some old tune, or is it
something they wrote themselves?
Frank Nordberg
http://www.musicaviva.com
X:1
T:?
R:Jig?
M:6/8
L:1/8
K:C
FC2F {G}FEF|CGEE EDE|FFEF AFA|Fced cdB|
CGcc {d}cBc|GdBB {d}BAB|CcBc edB|Ccde E^F^G|
AA^ce a^ga|Eb^ce dB^G|AA^cA ece|Aa6|]
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Re: [abcusers] abcm2ps and 'extras'
John Walsh wrote: Chris Meyers writes: The one thing I'm missing is putting the slashes on the stems of the notes. Obviously, an extension to the code is necessary, and I'm even willing to gasp step outside the bounds of the emerging abc standard to accomplish my goal, since my real intention is only in creating pretty postscript output, There are two solutions here. The first is, as has been suggested, include these as decorations e.g. !roll-types!; that could be added into the standard right now. Then alias them with one of the letters H--Z for use in the abc itself. This might be generally useful, since I gather that these also occur as tremolo markers in string music. Yes, and they're also used as trill/mordent symbols in early music. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] abc 2.0 and abctab
One thing I would like to see in abc 2.0, is a reference to Christoph Dalitz' abctab standard. Abctab is an extension of the abc standard to allow for tablature notation. It uses special clefs to allow for seamless integration into abc (not unlike the way BarFly uses special clefs for neumes), doesn't seem to interfer with anything else, mirrors standard abc notation closely (with two minor exceptions) and should be a *very* valuable addition to abc's bag of tricks. Here are some URLs for those who want to have a look: Downloads and info: http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/ (btw, the new version 1.5.3 of abctab2ps was posted just a week or so ago) Description of the abctab standard: http://www.lautengesellschaft.de/cdmm/userguide/node8.html Online collections of abctab files: http://msg.science.uva.nl/~walstra/ABCArchive/index.html http://home.online.no/~frnordbe/nst/ Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Chord length
Bernard Hill wrote: But what does it MEAN in notation terms? You are not allowed to have different length notes on the same stem in standard notation, ... Well, allowed may not be the right word here. The question is if it's possible in standard notation. You do occasionally see dotted and non-dotted notes on the same stem, and a qarter note and a half note head together as well. Actually, it's easier to implement in standard notation than in abc since the rules are much more relaxed. But I agree with Zouki: Just let that question lie for now. Seems it only derails the discussion. --- Is there any problems with notation like [BAD]4 ? If not, I think it should be included in abc 2.0. It's much easier for a human both to read and write than [B4A4D4] - which should be kept just for the sake of backwards compatibility. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Version 2.0.0 voice overlay and lyrics
Richard Robinson wrote: It occurs to me that part of the problem here is that the '' just doesn't stand out visually against the notes. Well, it seems to me that the *main* problem is simlpy that the 2.0 draft doesn't explain it clearly enough (I can assure you all that Bernard wasn't the only one confused about it!). But yes, the lowercase v: seems clearer than the I stil prefer John's V:1+ idea, though. Among other things it allows a clear definition of *which* main voice the secondary voice is connected to. It may get a bit confusing when we have a v:2 as a secondary part to V:1 and a V:2 as an independent voice at the same time. Howeever, I understand the notation already is implemented by at least one application, That is definitely something that should be taken into consideration. --- John Chambers wrote: ... (For some reason, this example reminds me of the piano piece by Mozart, which ended with widely separated chords for the left and right hands, plus one note in the middle to be played with your nose.) Actually a German (I think) 20th Century composer whose name looses me at the moment also wrote a piano piece along the same line: two widely separated chords and a fast repeated drone note in the middle. Only - well the body part *he* specified for the middle note was not the nose... Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] New standard(s)
Bernard Hill wrote: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes John Chambers wrote: ©: 1998 Joe Smith ... But some people might have problems figuring out how to type this. On many linux and *BSD systems, you can get the copyright symbol with the ALT-) (or ALT-SHIFT-0) combination, but I don't think this will work on Windoze or Mac systems. Why shouldn't it? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com Er, why *should* it? Hmmm Seems you're right. I was so sure the copyright symbol was a part of the ascii standard I didn't even bother to check. It's certainly a part of the Mac's standard character set! But iturns out it's not even included in the official unoffical extended ascii. Seems ascii is even worse than I suspected! Btw, here's a reference site that might be useful to some: http://www.asciitable.com/ Only the first 127 are really safe for cross-platform purposes (or even between theoretically identical DOS/Win computers) This is the original set that a bunch of dyslectic engineering school drop-outs came up with over their 6th round of beer at the local strip joint late one Saturday night, and eventually managed to foist onto the ASA (The Anti-Standards Association) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] New standard(s)
John Chambers wrote: I can't think of a way to make a funny tie-in to music for this now. Maybe someone else can. Not so funny perhaps, but US orchestras tend to tune their instruments slightly higher than waht is common in the rest of the world. This is sometimes a problem for wind players and for wind instrument manufacturers who have to make special models for the US market. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc2win vs. ABC...
John Walsh wrote: ... Incidentally, for abc historians: if you have a copy of a Basic manual collecting dust on your shelves, check out the PLAY command. Hmmm... I think I can kinda guess what you're hinting at, but so many years have past! So, for those of us who happens to have such antiqus safely stored in our parents' house five hundred miles from present location: You don't happen to have a web reference, do you? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] New standard(s)
John Chambers wrote: ©: 1998 Joe Smith ... But some people might have problems figuring out how to type this. On many linux and *BSD systems, you can get the copyright symbol with the ALT-) (or ALT-SHIFT-0) combination, but I don't think this will work on Windoze or Mac systems. Why shouldn't it? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC sects
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Taking the second point first, from the Help files for ABC2WIN - The exclamation point will force a new staff line when the tune is drawn- you need not necessarily start a new line in the editing window as well.. Sorry Brian, but *that* definitely violates the ABC standard, who explisitly states that a line break in the ABC also means a line break in the standard notation output (except when counteracted by a \ of course). As to the first point, this is standard setting by precedent of one piece of software in the absence of a written standard. You'd better take this up with Frank Nordberg who says ... And I stand by what I said. One programmer/developer team should not be allowed to alter or redefine established standards according to their whims by brute force alone. It's a somewhat different question when we're talking about the application that *set* the standard in the first place, though. Strictly speaking, before a published standard existed, ABC simply was whatever abc2mtex program could read. Realisticly, it is very much a question of how well ABC was decribed in the abc2mtex documentation, and I know nothing about that. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC sects
David Webber wrote: No! If a piece of software ignores the standard that line break=music break, when reading then it is most certainly not breaking the standard, it is merely ignoring it. Hmmm... Just to make absolutely sure about this: I assume everybody in this discussion is aware that the linebreak in abc equals linebreak in music convention actually *is* (and as far as I know always have been) a part of the standard, not just a convention introduced by a couple of applications. If no - please read the standard before commenting on it! If yes - this becomes an interesting philosophical (and legal) question: How much of a standard can you ignore before you break it? Here's a simple thought experiment: 1. I don't like the line break command the standard specifies (there *are* some legitimate arguments in favour of that!), so I decide to use ! instead of lineshift for that. 2. I'm not happy about the required X: field either, since it seems outdated. Away with it! 3. As a Norwegian, I grew up learning that peculiar German perversion of music notation - with H instead of B, so I prefer that. (I definitely don't - this is a thought experiment, remember ;-) So, the note names are CDEFGAHcdefgah 4. One advantage to this, is that the character b is free - that means I can use b and # as accidentals rather than _ and ^. 5. I'm not happy about this modern convention of beginning the scale on C. The original alphabetic note naming convention started with an A. Why not go back to that? The note names are then (from a below middle c and upwards): AHCDEFGahcdefg (note: this would actually make a lot of sense if it wasn't for the fact that the C-c scale has become so well established over the years - and of course that #3 and #5 in this experiment gets completely insane when combined ;-) 6. Note values - I'm not to happy about that L: field stuff. Why not borrow a bit from standard notation and use 1/4 after a note for a quarter note, 1/4. (note the period!) for a dotted quarter note, 1/8 for an eight note and so on. We don't want it on every note though - it'll be too messy. Just ad it whenever the note values change. Thus a C major scale with just quarter notes becomes: C1/4DEFGahc - no wait a minute - better put the note value in front: 1/4CDEFGahc 7. Let's take a look at the header fields too: M: for time signature doesn't make much sense to me T: is much better. That means we'll have to find a new name for the Title tag, though. How about H: (FOR header)? My point? Well, I started by ignoring parts of the standard - replacing it with stuff I thought (or at least pretended for the sake of argument) to be better. Then I just kept on doing exactly that. Exactly when did I *break* the standard? At #1? 2? 3? 4? 5? 6? 7? Of course, you *could* argue I didn't break the standard at all, I just ignored some parts of it. But I don't believe anybody would really agree that this is legitimate ABC: H:Guitar Boogie C:Arthur Smith T:C K:C 1/8CCEE GGaa|ccaa GGEE|CCEE GGaa|bhhaa GGEE| FFaa ccdd|beedd ccaa|CCEE GGaa|bhhaa GGEE| GGhh ddee|ffee ddhh|CCEE GGaa|bhhaa GGEE|] Cheers! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: %%ABC 2.0 identifier
Jack Campin wrote: [ ordinarily I do not attribute posters I respond to, but this is such mind-blowingly offensive, arrogant, counterproductive authoritarian shite that no way could I ever forget the name of the author or want it mistakenly attributed to anybody else ] Jack, are you sure you're not doing poor Steven wrong here? Seems to me you interpreted his posting in the worst possible way. Every musical notation there has ever been has been adapted by people who needed something different to express what they needed to say, and weren't prepared to wait for a committee to approve them saying it. You're right, Jack. It never ceases to amaze me that some people seems to think that the rules of standard notation was written down on stone tablets and handed down to us by the pantheum of great classical composers. It's nothing like that. Standard tadpole notation has gradually evolved and been adapted to different purposes for about seven centuries, and is still evolving today. By now, it's all so patchy you have to look very closely to spot the original - very clear and logical - idea at all. If the computer is simply going to sit there as a censor stopping me saying what I want, well, fuck the computer, I can write ABC on paper perfectly well (and have done, I have a stack of notebooks of it). Good point, but I don't think ABC will ever become the ultimate cover-all-bases music notation system. In fact I hope it won't. The need for completeness is very much in conflict with the need for simplicity. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc2win vs. ABC...
John Chambers wrote: ... Thus, my site has a copy of the three O'Neill's books that have been transcribed, and the Ryan/Cole collection (up to 800 tunes now). I doubt that abc2ps would have any problem with anything in these canonical Irish collections. Well, since I'm to blame for transcribing one of those books into ABC: abc2ps *did* in fact have some serious problems with some of the O'Neill 1001 tunes. I don't remember the details, though. Might have been some generic ABC problems, not related to abc2ps at all. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC sects
Phil Taylor wrote: ... It is supported, but you don't use %%midi. For a single voice tune put transpose -24 (or just t=-24) in the K: field. For multivoice tunes put it in V: fields in the header, so you can transpose each voice separately. This only affects playing. Hmmm... An important point here is that BarFly has many of the same special features as abc2ps/abcm2ps/midiabc, only it uses different syntaxes. Any programmers here that feel the call to create a nice little conversion program/script for the benefit of the world at large? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: ABC sects
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank Nordberg wrote - An important point here is that BarFly has many of the same special features as abc2ps/abcm2ps/midiabc, only it uses different syntaxes. Any programmers here that feel the call to create a nice little conversion program/script for the benefit of the world at large? I'd much rather all abc software used the same syntax. Yes, of course. That's one of the things Guido's ABC 2.0 will fill fix - hopefully... ... eventually. Isn't BarFly doing just what ABC2WIN is criticised for? No it isn't. ABC2WIN's ! syntax is breaking (no pun intended) the official ABC standard (as Chris Walshaw published it). The differences between the other major ABC applications are all about *extensions* to the standard: additional features different developers saw the need for and incorporated in their programs independent from each other and in different ways. There is no standard for specifying midi program changes in an ABC file, so any claim that BarFly's way is wrong and abc2midi's is right (or vice versa) simply have no fundation. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: My point of view on the abc standard
I. Oppenheim wrote: ... I do not agree with this approach. A standard should document advisable behaviour, not all the possible errors that people make when writing ABC. I'd say both yes and no to that. The new standard should certainly do far more than just document common ABC use. OTOH it wouldn't hurt to at least give some consideration to how people actually *write* their ABC, not only from a pragmatic POW (fewer faulty ABC files in circulation), but also because there might be good ideas there. Although it's not very common, people do occsionally have good reasons for doing thing the way they do. ;-) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Free notation program for Windows - let's write it...
A.M. Kuchling wrote: * Members of the appropriate sex like musicians. Might be somewhat off-topic, but this reminds me of a masterclass I once attended - by the great classical guitarist Manuel Barrueco. After we had bombared the maestro with questions about fingering, polishing nails, and the minutest technical details, he summed it all up with these immortal words: Remember, everything we do, we do for the ladies! Cheers Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Free notation program for Windows - let's write it...
Bernard Hill wrote: ... Why are there no professional musicians who perform without being paid for it? Hey, I'm a professional musician, and I *do* perform without being paid for it quite a lot, and so do all the collegues I know! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Abc Applications again
Just wanted to let you know that the ABC applications database is now updated (or will be in a few minutes at least - uploading as I write this). It's two days later than I originally planned. The reason is that I decided I wanted the update as a Today's Feature at Musica Viva, and July 2nd was the first available opening I had for that. That ought to give ABC some more recognition among the ignorami (or however you spell it?) and maybe win over some new converts to out true and just case! ;-) Anyway, thanks to everybody who contributed to this update, and to everybody who has posted and/or will post their comments! Frank P.S. In case anybody's forgotten already, the URL is: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcapps/index.tpl To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Manuel Reiter wrote: ... but I'd very much appreciate a list of all (or most ;-) ) available accents. Go to http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcyclopedia/view.tpl?kw=Special%20characters (that URL is so long it may be broken up by some email client - if so, copy and paste - or you can go to http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcyclopedia/index.tpl and select S and then Special characters) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Musicians and techies
Buddha Buck wrote: ... In order for various DIgital Rights Managment schemes to work to prevent piracy, the digital players can only play works you have rights to play. This requires that the rights be encoded in the digital media, and signed in such a way to prevent forgery or undetected modification. If it isn't signed, or isn't signed by a trusted (in the eyes of the DRM software) party, the DRM software won't play the media. There is a growing concern among the professional musicians' organisations about this new proposed DRM regime. You can be assured that when the battle begins, all musicians, pros and amateurs will fight on the same side. If this DRM scheme is to suceed, it has to be mandatory and non-DRM channels have to be prohibited. Otherwise, consumers who don't want to deal with the DRM BS will simply use existing or new non-DRM tools. Guess who will control the trusted signing keys? Guess how successful any DRM policy will be? They don't stand a chance! That's the real sad thing about this whole thing. So much resources wasted on an idea that are neither good nor possible There is an old saying that The Internet treats censorship as damage, and routes around it. I think it can be updated to say The Internet treats abusive copyrights as damage, and routes around it. In this particular case there's no difference whatsoever between censorship and abusive copyrights. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Newbie Questions
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... It looks like the site is down for a few days...its a Norweigian site, I think. I hate to admit it, but you're wrong. Webmaster Atté is one of our Danish brothers from the south. Anyway, since there seems to be big band musicians on the list, here's a little belated christmas gift: http://home.online.no/~frnordbe/bb-blackbird-bb/ (Sorry about the messy fonts, I never intended my big band arrangements to be distributed digitally at all.) And, oh yes, a challenge: Can anybody come up with a good abc transcription of this arrangement? Cheers Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] music copyrights
(Sorry, I'm late joining this discussion - christmas vacation, you know.) Jeff Szuhay wrote: ... The rule of thumb for printed music is that the copyright lasts for 50 years after the composer's death. 70 years, actually. Some international council (can't be bothered to remember its name) suggests 70 years after the originator's death for intellectual works (or some mumbo-jumbo like that) by identified originators and 70 years after the first publication for anonymous works. Most countries seems to follow this recommendation, but there are some minor countries (China, USA and their likes) who prefer playing by their own weird rules. As John mentioned, there are also copyrights for _editions_ of works. The 70 years after first publication rule should be safe there too, although I believe the time period is actually considerably shorter. Interestingly, the first publication rule means that many of the modern editions of classical music actually are public domain, since they tend to be just reprints of 19th and early 20th Century editions... There's this big piano sheet music site at: http://www.sheetmusicarchive.net/ that mainly contains scans from Fischer's Masterpieces of Piano Music, first published in 1918 and still in print today. (Well, that partcular site is actually illegal, but only because they're located in the USA.) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Lead Sheets and Copyrights
Ed Skinner wrote: Can I make my own lead sheets to use when performing even though the chords, melody and lyrics are identical to those in a copyrighted work such as The Real Book or other published source? (This would be for convenience rather than having to carry around half a dozen books.) Strictly speaking you can't, but who's gonna check? If you want to be absolutely safe, you can make your own copies, but keep the originals backstage so that you can produce them if anybody should actually ask. Since you mentioned The Real Book, it is a good example that the music publishing industry actually _can_ be pragmatic about coyprights if they really, really have to. That book circulated as illegal copies for decades (in Scandinavia at least) - completely ruining the jazz fake book market. Eventuelly the music publishers was forced to do something about it, so they published an official, watered down, edition. of it. .. I often see other performers carrying their book to gigs. Those I've glanced at (by permission) appear to be hand-written, and appear to have no copyright information. I presume that, in many cases, these are special arrangements for that particular performer. Wooaa! Special arrangements - that'd be even *more* illegal than plain reproductions! Surely *no* responsible musician would ever even think of doing anything like that! ;-) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Can anyone help!
A. O. Gutierrez wrote: Thanks all, I think I have enough info to go back in and figure it out. Will Acrbat give a screen image of the file or simply tranlate to .pdf? I've been having a hell of time downloading Ghostscript. GSview was pretty OK, but Ghostscript keeps telling me it will take 2 days to download which is way past inconvenient. What's wrong with that? Don't you have any patience at all??? :-P Seriously, you shouldn't believe everything your computer tells you. GhostScript is quite a download, but not *that* big! I ask about Acrobat because I already have that. If its just a matter generating files in abc2ps then opening them with Acrbat that might be serviceable. Acrobat can open plain postscript files, can't it? If so, you have no need for GhostScript. The thing I've gotten used to with ABC2win is the ability to switch between ABC and graphical out put to check what I'm doing. Is that possible with the .ps arrangement? Nope. That's the major shortcoming of this whole abc2ps scheme. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Violin duet
Forgeot Eric wrote: interesting arrangement, was the last catchy part inspired by some Dimmu Borgir tunes ? ;) Well, basically black metal is just Norwegian traditional music played very loud on fuzz guitars, and my British folk music arrangements are far more influenced by Norwegian traditions than I like to admit... But really, I've been wondering about this myself. I don't know if anybody has noticed yet, but the fifth part of the second fiddle is basically identical to the fourth part of the first fiddle. That, however, caused some rather nasty clashes halfway through, so I had to find something else in a hurry. Like when you improvise a solo and you suddenly realize you're gonna crash. Where that weird idea came from? Don't know - might have been Discovery Channel. Generally my leftbrain isn't very much involved in this Folkband stuff anyway (except for the final clean-up), so most of the process is quite a mystery to me. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Drunken sailor
Just wanted to let you know that the Drunken sailor arrangement I posted parts of here at abcusers is now up at Folkband: http://www-musicaviva.com/ensemble/folkband/list.tpl?mode=oneill-1001no=21 There's also a midi of the violin duet version at: http://www-musicaviva.com/midi/files/ireland/drunken-sailor-2vln.mid (I may have overdone the ending of the second fiddle, but I'm allowed to have some fun, haven't I? ;-) Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Drunken sailor
Corrected URLs: http://www.musicaviva.com/ensemble/folkband/list.tpl?mode=oneill-1001no=21 and: http://www.musicaviva.com/midi/files/ireland/drunken-sailor-2vln.mid (although you probably all guessed that) Frank Frank Nordberg wrote: Just wanted to let you know that the Drunken sailor arrangement I posted parts of here at abcusers is now up at Folkband: http://www-musicaviva.com/ensemble/folkband/list.tpl?mode=oneill-1001no=21 There's also a midi of the violin duet version at: http://www-musicaviva.com/midi/files/ireland/drunken-sailor-2vln.mid (I may have overdone the ending of the second fiddle, but I'm allowed to have some fun, haven't I? ;-) Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Folkband (and the rebirth of Musica Viva)
Hi folks, as you've probably all have noticed, Musica Viva has been brought back from the brink of death and will probably stay with us for quite a while yet! Help came from the most unlikely place you can imagine, but really guys, you deserve most of the credit. If it wasn't for the overwhelming positive respons I got here at abcusers, I simply wouldn't have had the energy to go looking for a solution! So lots of thanks to all of you! :-) Here's something I hope you'll appreciate, although it hasn't got much to do with abc: Have a look at: http://www.musicaviva.com/ensemble/folkband/index.tpl This might seem like old news, but it isn't. Every single arrangement has been revised - most of them have been quite heavily modified, and I have also added 20 new ones. There are now 61 tunes in the folkband collection, 14 in the English dsection, 25 in the Irish (that's almost a complete program for a full-nighter!), 18 in the Scottish and 4 in the new Norwegian section. The most important changes to the old arrangements are: *Flute parts in a lower range (I *know* Irish flutists hate the third octave ;-) *More guitaristic solo guitar parts *More efficient rhythm guitar parts *Tunes found in O'Neill's 1001 has been synchronized with the variant in that book (except for the Trumpet Hornpipe - I just couldn't make myself throw away my old arrangement of that one) As usual, all kinds of feedback are highly appreciated - helpful suggestions, error reports, information about the tunes, or just generally what you think of the project. I'm especially interested in how the midi files sound with various equipment, though. They've been optimized for QuickTime 4, and it was a nasty shock for me to hear how lousy they sounded with QuickTime 6. On the other hand, *all* midi files sound lousy with QuickTime 6, so it might not be an important issue. Enjoy! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Folkband (and the rebirth of Musica Viva)
Phil Taylor wrote: Are you using Quicktime 6.0.2? If not, update. It seems to solve all the sound problems. Yes I am using Quicktime 6.0.2. The application itself is actually quite good, but the sound samples they introduced in version 5 really sucks! It's an old well-known problem to all electronic musicians that hardware and software manufacturers regard string ensemble sounds as something that should only be used for long, drawn-out notes in the background. No attack whatsoever, and the volume takes ages to build. The common solution to this problem is to mix in some solo string sounds. Apparently Apple doesn't like this kind of hacks, so the solo string sounds in QuickTime are just as bad in that respect as common string ensemble sounds (and their string ensemble sounds are of course worse than you can possibly imagine). They even remembered to destroy the secret solo string sound (the fiddle)! There simply is no way you can have a fast moving strings line within an ensemble with QuickTime 6. No matter how loud you set it, it'll inevitably drown, simply because the volume hasn't got time to build before the note is ended. Then there's the clarinet sound for the Norwegian arrangments, of course. Sounds like it comes from a cheap mid 80s Casio keyboard. It took me only half an hour to build a more realistic clarinet sound from scratch on my battered old DX7. The obvious solution, sound fonts, is rather cumbersome and doesn't solve this particular problem any way. What matters isn't what I hear, but what my visitors hear. I can't just ask them to just download and install a cuple of megabytes of sound fonts to play the midis at Musica Viva. Even the old QuickTime 1 I use on my old LC is better. Sounds tacky, and you can forget everything about realism, but at least it works! One of the great things about QuickTime as a midi player, is that it established a common platform for how the midi samples sounds. It doesn't cost a dime and you can use it to play midis on most any computer you like with more or less the same results. Unortunately, with QuickTime 5 Apple blew it big time :-( (And congratulations on Musica Viva's survival too!) Thanks :-) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Musica Viva, latest news (Was: Goodbye)
I've received so many messages both on- and off list now, I beginning to conuse them. This reply was meant for the whole list, but somehow I ended up sending it to just one person: --- Seems things are really out of my hand right now. I just had a talk with sysop at my web host, and he simply refused to take the site down!!! So no matter what I do, it seems Musica Viva will stay online at least until it's time to re-register the domain name (and that's not until September 2003). The site is down right now because of that domain name trouble, but that shouldn't take long to fix. A few very important question here: Like any law-abiding citizen I pay my bills to my domain name registrar every year, right on time. Then, for the second year in a row, the registrar messes up the renweal, causing my site to drop out. Has anybody had any experience with such a situation? What is my legal position? Can I sue them? If I can can, for how much? Active ISP is Europe's largest domain name registrar. What can I do to ruin their reputation so thoroughly they never ever see buiness again? And finally a warning to all who is going to - or know someone who is going to - register a domain name in Europe: Whatever you do, dON't USE Active ISP!!! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Goodbye
Christian M. Cepel wrote: You've certainly my gratitude and appreciation. Might we convince you to make a single tarball available, I'd really love to, but the site is just too big. The abc files alone takes up 20 MB. Anyway, Musica Viva should be back again tomorrow, and apparently it's back for good whether I want it or not ;-) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Goodbye
I'm sad to announce the end of Musica Viva. No, the site isn't dead yet. I haven't even given up all hope to save it! But realistically, saving Musica Viva would take a miracle of the kind usually associated with a certain bloke who won't be around for yet another month or so. I can't even promise I can go on 'til the end of *this* month. So, guys, if you want any of the music or other content at Musica Viva, you'd better go and get it while you can. Some of you might need a password to get where you want (one of the results of my many desperate and futile attempts to save the site). If so, please contact me, and we'll fix that. Access restrictions certainly don't apply to my old friends here at abcusers! One favour I ask you all, though: whatever you do with the Musica Viva content, please don't redistribute it in any way - and especially: don't post it anywhere on the web! I know the *generous* thing for me to do, would be to ask if someone could host everything for the benefit of the internet community at large. But to be honest, I don't feel very generous towards the internet community at large right now. (It's one of the *very* few things I *don't* feel at the moment. ;-) So please respect my right to be grumpy, anti-social, selfish and bitter. So long! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Goodbye
Frank Nordberg wrote: ... No, the site isn't dead yet. I haven't even given up all hope to save it! But realistically, saving Musica Viva would take a miracle ... Woops, seems things things happened faster than I thought. Musica Viva is now history. Sorry folks, that's all Good bye Frank Nordberg P.S. Anybody got a job for me? To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Goodbye
Seems it ain't quite over yet. The reason why Musica Viva is down now has nothing whatsoever to do with the real issue. Apparently the domain name has been blocked due to communication problems between VeriSign and their Norwegian agent, ActiveISP. That's what happened last year at least, and I know I paid that bill two months ago (I just checked just to be absolutely sure). At first I saw no reason to bother, but on second thought I realized this is a golden opportunity to vent off some of my built-up frustration. Some poor bloke down at ActiveISP is gonna get a hell of a start of the day tomorrow. ;-) Maybe I should sue them, btw? Does anybody know anything about the legal aspect of such a situation? Anyway, the site will be back again soon, It probably won't be for long, but at least it'll get a proper funeral. Musica Viva ain't gonna just softly and suddenly vanish away! Laurie (ukonline) wrote: ...So please respect my right to be grumpy, anti-social, selfish and bitter. Yep. All the best anyway. Thanks! :-) Once at a crisis point in my life I got an email from an Indian friend who said always remember that some of Gods greatest gifts come in the form of unanswered prayers. I've got a feeling that when I get some distance to the whole thing, getting rid of that greedy and ungrateful monster called Musica Viva will have been one of the best things ever to happen to me. Somehow that doesn't feel very comforting... Gerry McCartney wrote: Speaking as a rank amateur, i.e. not a programmer (!), may I just send a thank you to Frank Nordberg for allowing me the pleasure of visiting his Musica Viva site many times over this last year or so. I got many useful links ... Well... The Free Sheet Music Directory is one of the main reasons why Musica Viva is bleeding to death, and even if some last-minute miracle should save the site, that particular part of it will have to go. ... and was able to access many excellent programs that I'd never heard of previously. Hmmm... The ABC applications search engine really ought to stay online. Any volunteers? Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Goodbye
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frank- I have learned a great deal from you in your posts and your answers to my questions, and spent many hours poking around musicaviva.com. Whatever is happening in your life, I hope it works out for the best for you. But one question: Does this Goodbye also mean you're signing off the list? Note this is cc'ed both to the list and to you personally. I'd sure like to see an answer on the list, though. That's a very difficult question. You see, without Musica Viva I won't really be an abcuser anymore. Practically all non-Viva music notation I do is a bit too complex for abc. It is possible to do a marching band or a big band arrangement in abc, but I'd rather not. On the other hand I do believe in abc. The free exchange of music through internet is an idea that is important to me, and abc is a vital part of that. Besides, I've made a couple of friends through abcusers (one of my closest friends even) and met a couple of people I deeply respect (no names mentioned, of course ;-) ) and I'd hate too loose touch. So I guess I'll still hang around. John Chambers wrote: So are you going to tell us the whole story? Just the line I was waiting for, John ;-) Strangely enough, I don't think I'd be able to answer that if it wasn't for that stupid domain name problem. It gave me something to focus on, and as you all know, everything becomes far clearer once you've got some focus The first reason, of course, is the good old websmater's blues. I suppose all webmasters here know exactly what I'm talking about. To all the others: running a website is a *very* lonesome occupation. You write those pages, upload them and hope somebody likes what you've done. But you don't get much response from the visitors. People come to your place and they leave your place and they hardly ever bother even to say hello. I added a guestbook to Musica Viva in April 2001. Since then there have been between between 15 and 20 million page visits at the site. 262 visitors have signed the guestbook. I used to get lots of emails too, of course. Mostly from young kids who told me that this or that pop group made the only *real* music and that I should stop posting all that boring old s**t on the web. I've solved that problem, but sometimes I wish I didn't. Negative response can actually be better than no response at all. I really didn't want to announce Musica Viva's problems at abcusers. I didn't want everybody to tell me how great a job I was doing. But that's exactly what happened, and although I hate to admit it, it feels really ood. :-) Remember guys, when you stumble across a site you really like, tell the webmaster! If there's a guestbook, sign it, if not email him/her and tell him/her how much you appreciate the site! The second reason is - well I guess you could call it boredom. A few months ago I decided it was time for something new. So I took a year's leave from my regular job and went looking for new challenges. What I didn't realize at that point, was that Musica Viva by ten had become a *part* of the daily routines it used to be a break from. Working on Musica Viva can be very boring sometimes. I change the layout here, I tweak some script there and then I add some more music. But the site has grown so huge! Modifications on a scale that used to be a major step foreward, just drowns in the huge mass that is today's Musica Viva. The third and most immediate (but not necessarily the most important) reason is simply money. I don't have a regular income at the moment, and that means I *have* to be very cautious about everything that costs me money. I don't think I would have considered closing Musica Viva if it had managed to become self-financing. I might not have updated it very often, but at least I might have kept the old stuff online. As it is, I have to pay for the privilege of being Musica Viva's webmaster - not much, but more than I can afford at the moment. Besides, they say time is money, and that is certainly true in this case. As long as Musica Viva exists, I just can't keep myself from spending time tweaking it - time I really rather ought to spend keeping the bank happy. Hmm... I suppose nobody has the stamnina to read this far, so hopefully I'm only writing to myself by now. I guess I should have let the boojum called ActiveISP eliminate Musica Viva after all. The more I reason and the more I try to explain, the more I start looking for ways to get through this. For good or bad, Musica Viva is my child, and you don't just kill of your children just because they are a nuisance, do you? I'll make a few phone calls tomorrow and see what I can come up with. If there is any way at all to save the site, I'll find it. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Multiple Cords for 1 note
Jeremy Cowgar wrote: I am curious how to enter multiple chords for one note in ABC format. Here is a very small sample of my ABC file: R:4/4 L:1/8 G7cBAB |1 Cc8 :|2 Cc8 |] Now, what I want is: G7cBAB |1 CFCc8 :|2 CFCc8 |] The c8 is a whole note obviously, but I want to break the whole note accompanyment into three chords. Can that be done? Well, yes - in a way, What you do is that you include all the chord symbols for a single note within one pair of 's like this: G7cBAB |1 C F Cc8 :|2 C F Cc8 |] Then you can use multiple spaces between the chord symbols to get the alignement you want. Crude, but it works. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Welcome
davidcrespo wrote: hi. I am newly joined to this list and this is partly a test message, and partly an introduction. ... Christopher Myers wrote: I tried emailing the list owner, but to no avail. Does anyone know how to access an archive of postings to this list, or an FAQ, or a web-accessible version? I don't want to ask questions that have been posed dozens of times, to the frustration of frequent haunters of this list. Hi David and Christopher, and welcome to abcusers both of you. :-) It's been rather quiet here for a while, but don't expect that to last. Hope your email programs have big inboxes. ;-) The list owner - I suppose that's Toby (Rider). Don't expect too much help from him. He's a great guy, but he's running quite a lot of different lists, so usually he doesn't have much time to spare for each of them. There's an archive of old messages at: http://www.mail-archive.com/abcusers%40argyll.wisemagic.com/ It doesn't go back more than half a year, though. But don't be afraid to bring up old subjects here. People do it all the time. As for a FAQ - I don't think I've ever seen one, but if it extists, it's probably on Chris Wlashaw's site: http://www.gre.ac.uk/~c.walshaw/abc/ But it's quite simple, really: +No jacket required - we try to keep things informal here. +Good manners are required. +You should sign your messages with your full name, but apart from that, stick to first names (unless that might cause confusion, of course) +Stupid questions are allowed. +We try to avoid off topic postings, but to be frank, we're not very good at that. +Laura and Laurie are not the same person! They are about as different as two abcusers can be. ;-) +Don't call David Dave - he doesn't like it. +You should keep all tunes Jack posts here. They're always lovely, and usually pretty unusual. +Avoid discussing Norwegian traditional music with Eric, he already knows far too much about that topic ;-) Cheers Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc's of old-time, country, texas swing andbluegrass
\R.J.Peach (personal mail)\ wrote: On 04 Nov 02 5:52 am, Frank Nordberg wrote: Jack Campin wrote: This probably isn't good netiquette, but try: http://www.musicaviva.com/test/reed.html with some bulk downloading program (such as Interarchy). One warning, though, the tif files are big, so you should see if you could manage with just the gifs first. wget -A gif -r http://memory.loc.gov/afc/afcreed/ (linux) gets the gifs quite a lot of other stuff too That's not fair! Does anybody know of a Macintosh bulk downloader with a filtering function? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc's of old-time, country, texas swing andbluegrass
Jack Campin wrote: I was wondering if anyone knows of collections of ABC's online that contain a large number of bluegrass, old-time, texas swing and country fiddling? I don't think there are any. I would have liked to do ABCs of the Henry Reed stuff at the Library of Congress but their user interface is impossible (you have to click for every single file, no download-it-all option). This probably isn't good netiquette, but try: http://www.musicaviva.com/test/reed.html with some bulk downloading program (such as Interarchy). One warning, though, the tif files are big, so you should see if you could manage with just the gifs first. (You could also try http://memory.loc.gov/afc/afcreed/ of course, but that's a bit more complicated. There are lots of *really* big audio files there as well and you'll need a way to filter out them unless you want to spend the next few weeks downloading.) Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The symbol and abc2midi
Phil Taylor wrote: You've got BarFly, which can create MIDI itself, so why do you need to bother with abc2midi? BarFly creates midi by first making a QT movie, then using Quicktime to convert that to midi. Since Quicktime has no notion of key, time signature or even what length of notated note corresponds to a given duration, the resulting midi causes untold pain to music notation programs, although it plays beautifully. That's right. BarFly makes some of the best automatically created midi files there are for playback, but they're completely useless for conversion purposes. Something else I'm going to fix soon... Great, as long as you remember not to throw the baby out with the bathwater! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] The symbol and abc2midi
I have a rather substantial set of abcs (does 1001 ring a bell?) I need to convert into Finale files, and until Phil comes up with his promised XML-friendly BarFly and I get hold of Finale 2003, it has to be done via midi. But there's a problem with abc2midi's peculiar way of interpreting -dotted notation. I think somebody mentioned a way around this some time ago. Does anybody remember how it was done? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The symbol and abc2midi
Laura Conrad wrote: ... I've been just inserting: %%MIDI ratio 3 1 into all my files. ... Thanks, Laura, you're an angel! Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Four-stringed banjos (was: Music Notation)
Laurie (ukonline) wrote: Frank wrote ... I bought ... a ... banjo tears ago... Wonderful!! I know that t and y are keyboard neighbours but I like to imagine it was a Freudian slip. ;-) That particular instrument has certainly been a source of frustration for its poor owner and his fellow musicians, so you might be right. Gerry McCartney wrote: ... The one you subsequently described (20 frets) sound more like a 'short-armed tenor' which would be more suitable for playing Irish style i.e. tuned down to GDAE. ... It certainly is. I could have adjusted the action if I really wanted to and I could have lived with the string breaks, but I couldn't do anything about its lousy sound. Tuning it down fixed that, though. ... One of my banjos is a 24 fret, 23.5 inch string length on which I play Irish Trad. But I have to say that it concentrates both my mind and the tendons of my left hand! Yeah, I've noticed that too. But it's OK - I really need some left hand exercise anyway. ;-) Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Music Notation
Gerry McCartney wrote: ... Say, in 6/8 time you've written the staff notes of the first three notes as abc with the text A B C after each note. ... You have to put them *before* not after each note! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Over the rainbow
Toni Schilling wrote: Don't you think it's time to change the subject-line of this thread? Definitely not! Discussions at abcusers always turn out this way, and finally we have found a subject-line that covers all bases! ;-) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Over the rainbow
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please try tunes on your abc player before posting them. Nobody wants to post or read abc that doesn't work. Good point, David, but is that really the right way to greet a new contributor? I know you only wanted to offer some helpful advice, but it ended up looking like sour criticism - to my eyes at least. In this particular case, all that's needed is to replace the double line shifts with single ones - not too difficult and not nearly as bad as *some* abcs posted here even by experienced abcusers (myself included ;-) Don't know what you mean about missing K: fields, though. They come up just fine in my copy of the message. (It's K:F , btw). Oh well, since we're at it, here's some helpful advice or sour criticism (it all depends on your point of view ;-) from me too: The standard abc repeat sign is: :| not :|| The latter is a very common typo and most modern abc applications should be able to sort it out, but don't count on it. The M: and L: fields aren't strictly necessary for this tune, since the default values (M:C - L:1/8) are the correct ones, but I don't think it's a good idea to leave them out from tunes posted on the web. You never know what kind of weird badly-programmed application people will try to run it through. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] two tunes wanted
Jack Campin wrote: (2)Over The Rainbow. This is for the kids I teach. I know the main bit but I'm darned if I can remember the recitative section. You know, Jack, there's an old, worn out, and rather lousy joke about exactly that situation: http://www.dunley.freeserve.co.uk/gardun/Misc.%20Jokes/A%20Viola%20Audition.html Seem I've mislaid my jazz fake book, so I can't help you much, but at least there are plenty of midis of the tune out there. Try this for a start: http://www.google.com/search?q=%22over+the+rainbow%22+midihl=en Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Windows CE
I just go this email from a MUsica Viva visitor: ... Can you help me? Is there an ABC program out there which runs on Windows CE for Pocket PC? I see there is a Palm version, but is there anything for us Compaq Ipaq users? ... Does anybody here have any sugestions? Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC on a PDA
Phil Taylor wrote: Tim Riley wrote: I've been pounding La Primavera through the latest version of abcm2ps (3.0.17) and came across a few errors with the .abc file (the biggest one: measure 76 is repeated in the lower four voices) and changed it to take advantage of the !ornament! syntax (and discovered that abcm2ps doesn't yet support the _stuff syntax) but one thing stumps me: what are you using the N symbol for? I wondered that too. Yes, that's one symbol that isn't supported by any abc application as far as I know, although it's fairly easy to write a BarFly macro to play it back correctly. The score is located at http://www.musicaviva.com/pdf/vivaldi-antonio/vivaldi-op8-01.pdf and the N symbol first appears on page 6. There are a few errors here (not surprising in view of the way the text was entered). The five voices have different numbers of bars - V:1 seems to have a bar missing, while V:3 has one bar extra. Looks like a copy and paste job has gone into the wrong place. Woops. I never bothered to proofread this abc too thoroughly. As far as I was concerned, it was only a draft, and once I had converted it into Finale, I concidered myself more or less finnished with the abc. I should have caught that error, though. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Vivaldi's Primavera
Guido Gonzato wrote: On Thu, 4 Jul 2002, Frank Nordberg wrote: X:2572 T:La primavera T:Op. 8 no. 1 (Spring, from the Four seasons) C:Antonio Vivaldi amazing! How long did it take to transcribe it? Approximately as long as it takes for a Boeing 767 to get from Toronto to Copenhagen? Maybe I should add that I was rather motivated. I had just left my girlfriend and the lovely city of Vancouver, Toronto Airport (which is pretty lousy even for an airport) had managed to loose my two brand new Seagull guitars, and the guy next to me on the plane happened to be a Danish-Canadian who wanted to talk non-stop about his Danish relatives he was visiting. In other words: Perfect conditions for burying yourself in work and forget the rest of this cruel world ;-) Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Intergalactic naming conventions.
John Chambers wrote: | ... And the English think that English is the language that the English | speak!! | Laurie Yeah, well, the language does have more than a few major dialects. There's that line from My Fair Lady: In America they haven't spoken it in years. And it's probably worth noting that the major American dictionaries all call themselves a Dictionary of the American Language. Makes a lotta sense to me. Danish and Norwegian are at least as closely related as English and American, yet they are considered two different languages. Forgeot Eric wrote: When I've been in Bodø and Nord-Norge in winter (Jul), I thought it was HEAVEN (or to be more correct, VALHALL) ! :) Drop me a line next time you're here, will you? Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The (illegal) sounds of silence
John Chambers wrote: Hey, folks, here's a wonderful new addition to the ongoing issue of copyrights and the recording industry: http://www.independent.co.uk/story.jsp?story=307449 (Maybe we need an abc transcription of Mike Batt's One Minute's Silence to go with the version of Cage's 4'33 that's already online.) It's 4'11, John, not 4'33 ;-) Anyways, if Cage's publishers actually are suing people for this, maybe I should remove the tune from Musica Viva... Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The (illegal) sounds of silence
Thomas Bending wrote: The Musica Viva version is presumably just a quote from the complete work... Don't blame me, I'm just the archivist. It was Laurie who posted the tune at abcusers - and Phil who did the proofreading. Here's the tune in question, btw: X:814 T:4'11 C:John Cage O:USA %http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/tunes/cage-john/4-11.abc %Posted Aug 9th 1999 at abcusers by Laurie Griffiths in an attempt to %introduce some serious music to the list. Proofread by Phil Taylor M:none Q:1/8=60 K:Abm z251|] Cheers Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Some things never go away ...
Richard Robinson wrote: Character sets. [snip] Lists have been posted here, once or twice, ... Don't be modest, Richard. *You* have posted a very useful list here at the list a couple of times. I've taken the liberty to include it in the abcyclopedia at: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/abcyclopedia/view.tpl?kw=Special%20characters ... but I'd have thought the best way would be for one of the authors to include a little file listing what their conversion routine knows about ? Yep. The list is good, but not that useful as long as the application don't support them all - and even worse - there's no way of knowing which Tex charcters any given abc application supports. Frank Nordberg To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Question about rhythm notation
Jack Campin wrote: I think you could represent any piano score in BarFly using 176 voices; two voices for each key, one for each stem direction. No Jack, you'd have to double the number of voices (there are two staves, remember ;-) Like an ASCII player piano roll. You'd need an Apple Cinema Display to edit it. For the historically interested: Antonio de Cabezón actually published his music in *harp tablature* - one line for every string on the harp. For some reason this notation practice never really caught on... Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Renaissance fonts and Abc
Forgeot Eric wrote: I've begun to make a true type font for renaissance music,... Great work, Eric. Any chance of a Mac version? I used to have a program for porting TrueType fonts between MAc and Windows, but it seems I've mislaid it. Frank Nordberg http://www,musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Archive (Otce Nash)
Guido Gonzato wrote: I don't know of any copyright on Otce Nash. My mistake then. I couldn't find any information about the composer, Nikolaj Kedrov Sr., so I just assumed he was contemporary (I always try to play the safe side when dealing with copryright issues) Should I repost it? Please do! Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Antialiasing
John Chambers wrote: Hmmm ... I see I wasn't specific enough. With JPEG, GIF and PNG files, you can include them *inside* a page with a tag like: img src=http://foo.bar.com/junk.gif; alt=pretty picture This will cause the image to be displayed as part of the web page, surrounded by text. Does this work for .ps, .eps or .pdf files with these browsers? No it doesn't. You can actually fake it using the FRAMESET function, but it's rarely a good idea. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] antialiasing and test on ps files
Forgeot Eric wrote: I don't really agree, even if you're right in some extends : A gif file (I mean a partition) that looks cool on a browser with 16 colours is ci. 9 ko. The same in ps is 29 ko, but converted in pdf it's only 11 ko (I've tried for a small tune). Well, yes and no, Eric. The difference in size between a gif and a pdf file isn't nealy as big as some people belive, but there is a difference. Ghostview seems to create fairly large gifs. The equivalent BarFly/Graphic Converter output is only half the size. A Musica Viva style GIF would be even smaller. As for Postscript files - it's not unusual for a file created by one application to be four or five times as large as a similar file created by a different application. This difference is mostly, but not completely, evened out when the file is converted to pdf. (Of course, if file size is the *only* issue, you should just post the abc. In this particular case, you only need 806 bytes for that.) --- My site, Musica Viva, includes more than 500 PDFs and a few thousand ABCs, but GIF is still the main format for sheet music on the site. There are a number of reasons for this: a) Old habit - When I started the site, PDF simply wasn't a serious alternative. b) File size - The difference between a single PDF and a single GIF might not be so big, but how about 8000+ of them? I already use more than 200 of the 50 MBs I have available, so I have to be very careful to make evetyrhing as compact as possible. c) Viewable on any browser - I happen to be a firm supporter of the anybrowser campaign ( http://www.anybrowser.org/campaign/ ). GIF is by far the format that comes closest to that ideal. d) Viewable on any computer - Ever tried to open a really big PDF file on a old computer? e) Flexibility - Unlike PDFs, GIFs can be embedded in a html page, opening up a large nuber of options (to many to list here). f) Reliability - GIFs are far more rugged than PDFs. I don't have to worry about broken files, and I don't have to worry about people being unable to read the file because of some stupid software incompaibility. g) Speed - GIFs load faster than PDFs even if they're the same size. h) No plug-ins required - Let's face it, there are lots of computers that don't have Acrobat Reader installed. There are lots of users who have no idea what to do about it. There even are lots of older computers that simply don't have enough muscle to run such a heavy porgram. i) Security - The way I've set up Musica Viva makes it hard for people to steal the content of the site. j) It's good enough - The GIFs at Musica Viva are good enough for everyday use. You can read the sheet music, and you can play from it. What more do you expect for free? k) I'm a professional - In an ideal world I would have been able to make a living giving people music to play, but this world is far from ideal. That by site actually costs me a lot of money! I give away the basics for free just because I like to think of myself as a nice peson. But if you want more than that from me, I want to see some cash from you. If you *demand* more than that, you've got a serious attitude problem. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] No serious matter, just music ;-)
Hi everybody, just thought it's been too long since anybody posted an actual abc tune at abcusers. Here's one by Spanish 16th Century organist/harpist Antonio de Cabezón. Enjoy :-) Frank X:1 T:Diferencias sobre el canto llano del Caballero C:Antonio de Cabez\'on O:Spain %BarFly users: Remove the % characters from the next four lines! %V:1 program 1 46 up %V:2 program 1 46 down merge %V:3 program 1 46 up bass %V:4 program 1 46 down merge bass N:Note values have been halved since most abc applications seem to be N:uncomfortable with note values longer than whole notes. :-( N:BTW, Laura, there actually *are* barlines in the original this time ;-) Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com M:C| L:1/8 K:F V:1 z4 F2G2|A4 A4|B4 B4|A4 F4|G4 A4-|A4 G4| V:2 z4 D2E2|F4 F4-|F2D2 E4|C4 D4-|D2B,2 C4-|C2A,2 =B,4| V:3 A,6B,2|C4 D4|B,6G,2|A,8|D,4 E,4|F,4 D,4-| V:4 D,6G,2|F,6F,2|G,8|F,2E,2 D,2C,2|B,,4 A,,4|F,,4 G,,4| % V:1 F6E2||D8|z4 D2E2|F4 F4|G4 G4|A8|A4 B4-| V:2 C2B,2 A,2G,2||F,4 G,2A,2|B,2C2 D2B,2|C4 D4|B,2C2 D2E2|F4 D4|C2D2 B,2C2| V:3 D,4 ^C,4||D,8|D,2E,2 F,2G,2|A,2F,2 B,4|G,8|D,2E,2 F,2G,2|A,2F,2 G,4-| V:4 A,,8||B,,4 G,,4|z8|z8|z8|z8|z4 G,,2A,,2| % V:1 B4 A4|G8|F8|z4 F2G2|AGAB AFGA|B6B2| V:2 D2E2 F4-|F2D2 E4|C8|z8|F8|F6F2| V:3 G,4 F,4|D,4 G,4|A,8|F,2G,2 A,2B,2|CB,CD CA,B,C|D6D2| V:4 B,,2C,2 D,4|B,,4 C,4|F,,2G,,A,, B,,C,D,E,|F,8|F,8|B,,A,,B,,C, D,2B,,/C,/D,/E,/| % V:1 A4 F4|G4 A4-|A4 G4|F4 E4|D8|z2 D3C DE| V:2 F3C DEF2-|FEF/E/D/E/ F3E|DC D3C D/C/B,/C/|D2B,3A, B,/A,/G,/A,/|B,3F, G,A,B,G,|A,4 B,4| V:3 C2A,4F,2|C4 C2A,2-|A,2F,2 G,4|A,2F,2 G,2E,2|F,2D,3 C, D,E,|^F,G,A,F, G,4| V:4 F,4 D,4|C,4 F,4-|F,2D,2 _E,4|D,4 C,4|B,,4 G,,4|D,4 G,,4| % V:1 F6F2|G8|A8|A4 B4-|B4 A4|G8| V:2 A,2D4C2|B,4 G,4|C2B,C DEFG|ACDE F2GF|D2F3E CD|EFGF EDE2| V:3 A,G,F,E, D,C,F,2-|F,2E,D, F,E,F,/E,/D,/E,/|F,8-|F,A,B,C D4-|D4 CG,A,B,|C2B,A, G,F,G,2| V:4 D,3C, B,,2A,,2|G,,4 C,4|F,,2G,,A,, B,,C,D,E,|F,4 B,,2G,,A,,|B,,C,D,E, F,4|C,8| % V:1 F4 cBc/B/A/G/|FGF/E/D/C/ D2B,D|C2c3B A2-|A2GF AGA/G/F/G/|A2c3=B c/B/A/B/|c2G2 cBAG| V:2 C8|z8|C3D E2F2|D4 E4|C4 F4|E4 C4| V:3 A,8|z4 F,2G,2|A,6A,2|B,4 B,4|A,4 F,4|G,4 A,4-| V:4 F,,6G,,2|A,,4 B,,4|A,,3B,, C,2D,2|G,,4 G,4|F,3E, D,4|C,2CB, A,G,F,E,| % V:1 FEDF EDCB,|A,2A3 =Bc2|F2B2 A4-|A4 G4|G2F2 F4|F2ED FEF/E/D/E/| V:2 z8|z2 D4 C2|D3E FEDC|B,2A,2 B,4|A,4 F,G,A,B,|C8| V:3 A,4 G,4|F,4 E,4|D,8|z4 D,C,D,E,|F,E,F,G, F,4|G,4 G,4| V:4 D,2F,2 C,2C,2|D,4 A,,4|B,,3C, D,4|G,,8|D,4 D,4|C,8| % V:1 F3G A3B|c3c d3c|BGAc BcAB|c2BA GFG2|A3c B2A2|c2A2 d4| V:2 C3B, C2D2|C4 F2D2-|D2C2 DEFD|EFGF EDE2|F4 z4|z4 F3G| V:3 A,6F,2|G,2A,2 B,4-|B,2A,2 G,2F,2|G,8|F,2C,2 D,E,F,G,|A,B,CA, B,CDE| V:4 F,,2F,4D,2|E,2F,2 B,,3C,|D,E,F,2 B,,2D,2|C,8|F,,4 z4|z8| % V:1 c2f3ec2|d2GA B/A/B/c/d2|c2dc def2-|fef/e/d/e/ f3e|dcBA cBAG|BABc def2-| V:2 A4 A4|B6B2|A4 F4|G4 A4-|A4 G4|F8| V:3 F3E C2F2|B,2_E3DB,2|F2D3CA,2|B,4 F,2F2|FEDF _EDCE|DCDC B,2A,2| V:4 z8|z8|z8|z8|z8|z8| % V:1 fedc B2AG|B3A d3^c|d3c A2d2-|dBc3 A=B2|c2f3 ed2-|dcd/c/B/c/ d2g2-| V:2 D8|z4 D2E2|F4 F4|G6G2|F6F2|G2A2 B4-| V:3 B,3A, G,2F,E,|D,2DC B,2A,2|D,2 D3C A,B,|G,3_E D4|F3E ^C2D2|E4 G3F| V:4 z8|z8|D,3E, F,3D,|_E,2C,2 G,3G,|F,3G, A,2B,2-|B,2A,2 G,4| % V:1 gfde fga/g/f/e/|defg ecde|fcAF c2B2|Ad =Bc2A_B2|c3c AFc2|FdBG dfed| V:2 B2A2 G2F2|G8|F4- FFDB,|FDGE F2D2|CFEC F2E2|D3E F2G2| V:3 D6C2|D4 E4|C4 z4|z4 F,2G,2|A,6 A,2|B,4 B,4| V:4 B,6A,2|B,4 C4|F,4 z4|z8|z8|z8| % V:1 c3B AGBA|GFED CcBA|cFGA BcBG|ABAF GBAG|F2B2 AGFE|D3E F3G| V:2 AFGE FEDC|B,4 C4-|CDEF GFDE|FECD EA,=B,^C|D3D CB,A,G,|F,2B,3 A,D2-| V:3 A,4 F,4|G,4 A,4-|A,4 G,4|F,4 E,4|D,8|z4 D,4| V:4 z8|z8|z8|z8|z8|z8| % V:1 A3B c3d|=B2c4B2|c3B AGA2|DGEF GABc|decd BcAB|GABA GFG2|HA8|] V:2 DC F3 GA2|DGFE F/E/D/C/D2|C2F3 E DC|B,2C2 DCDE|FGAF GEFD|EFGF EDE2|HF8|] V:3 F,4 F,4|G,6 G,2|A,6 F,2|G,2A,2 B,4-|B,2A,2 G,2F,2|C8|HC8|] V:4 z8|z8|z8|z8|z8|C,8|HF,8|] --- To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: The F F (and F F2) problems
Eric Galluzzo wrote: On Thu, 2002-05-30 at 16:11, Frank Nordberg wrote: I really wonder what the results from other abc applications are. For what it's worth, abcm2ps 2.10.9 (February 10, 2002) didn't have any problem with it apart from the global accidentals, which it gave one warning about (Unknown token in key specifier in line 9.10). So, it didn't print any G flats, but it printed everything else just fine. There was one additional error it gave: Cannot handle note length for note, with no line number given. I'm not sure where this error occurred, since the output looked fine. It usually means that there's some odd duration like C5 that it can't resolve into a single notehead. I can post a PDF (23K) or PostScript (43K) file containing the output if anyone's interested. It'd be nice to have a look at it. Does anybody have a Macintosh port of abcm2ps, btw? Frank http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] ABC tune
In case there are any flutists here at abcusers... Here's a cute little tune I just found on my harddisk. Enjoy :-) Frank X:1 T:Concerto Op. 10 no. 1 T:La tempesta di mare T:1. Allegro C:Antonio Vivaldi V:1 program 1 73 V:2 program 2 40 V:3 program 3 110 V:4 program 4 41 V:5 program 5 41 Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com M:C L:1/16 Q:1/4=108 K:F V:1 FGAB cdef F2F2F2F2|FGAB cdef F2F2F2F2|cdef gabc' c2c2c2c2|cdef gabc' c2c2c2c2| V:2 FGAB cdef F2F2F2F2|FGAB cdef F2F2F2F2|CDEF GABc C2C2C2C2|CDEF GABc C2C2C2C2| V:3 FGAB cdef F2F2F2F2|FGAB cdef F2F2F2F2|CDEF GABc C2C2C2C2|CDEF GABc C2C2C2C2| V:4 z8 F,G,A,B, CDEF|F,2F,2F,2F,2 F,G,A,B, CDEF|C2C2C2C2 CDEF GABc|C2C2C2C2 CDEF GABc| V:5 z8 F,,G,,A,,B,, C,D,E,F,|F,,2F,,2F,,2F,,2 F,,G,,A,,B,, C,D,E,F,|C,2C,2C,2C,2 C,D,E,F, G,A,B,C|C,2C,2C,2C,2 C,D,E,F, G,A,B,C| % V:1 A2c'b agf_e |d2ba gfed |c2ag fedc |B2gf edcB A4 z4| V:2 C4 z4 z bag f_edc|B4 z4 z agf edcB|A4 z4 z gfe dcBA|G4 z4 | V:3 C4 z4 z Bcd _efga|b4 z4 z ABc defg|a4 z4 z GAB cdef|g4 z4 | V:4 F4 z4 F2F2F2F2|G4 z4 E2E2E2E2|F4 z4 D2D2D2D2|E4 z4 | V:5 F,4 z4 B,,2B,,2B,,2B,,2|B,,4 z4 A,,2A,,2A,,2A,,2|A,,4 z4 G,,2G,,2G,,2G,,2|G,,4 z4 F,F,F,F, F,F,F,F,| % V:1 bgbg afaf gege afaf|bgbg afaf gege afaf|bgbg afaf gc'ba gfed|c2c2c2c2 cc'ba gfed| V:2 bgbg afaf gege afaf|bgbg afaf gege afaf|bgbg afaf gcBA GFED|C2C2C2C2 CcBA GFED| V:3 gege fcfc ecec fcfc|gege fcfc ecec fcfc|gege fcfc ecBA GFED|C2C2C2C2 CcBA GFED| V:4 E2E2C2C2 C2C2C2C2|E2E2C2C2 C2C2C2C2|E2E2C2C2 C2C2C2C2|CcBA GFED C2C2C2C2| V:5 C,2C,2C,2C,2 C,2C,2C,2C,2|C,2C,2C,2C,2 C,2C,2C,2C,2|C,2C,2C,2C,2 C,2C,2C,2C,2|C,CB,A, G,F,E,D, C,2C,2C,2C,2| % V:1 c2c2c2c2 c'ac'a c'ac'a|c'gc'g c'gc'g c'gc'g c'gc'g|f2 ed cBAG F2F2F2F2|F4 z4 ^Solofafa cafa| V:2 C2C2C2C2 afaf afaf|gfgf gfgf gege gege|f2 ed cBAG F2F2F2F2|F4 z4 cfcf Afcf| V:3 C2C2C2C2 fcfc fcfc|fcfc fcfc ecec ecec|f2 ed cBAG F2F2F2F2|F4 z4 z8| V:4 CcBA GFED Cccc Cccc|Cccc Cccc Cccc Cccc|F2 ED CB,A,G, F,2F,2F,2F,2|F,4 z4 F,4 F,4| V:5 C,CB,A, G,F,E,D, C,CCC C,CCC|C,CCC C,CCC C,CCC C,CCC|F,2 E,D, C,B,,A,,G,, F,,2F,,2F,,2F,,2|F,,4 z4 F,,4 F,,4| % V:1 cafa cafa cgeg cgeg|cgeg cgeg cafa cafa|cafa cafa g2c2 z4|Afcf Afcf Afcf Afcf| V:2 Afcf Afcf eece Gece|Gece Gece Afcf Afcf|Afcf Afcf e4 z4|FcAc FcAc FcAc FcAc| V:3 z16|z16|z8 |A4 z4 z8| V:4 F,4 F,4 C4 C4|C4 E4 F4 F4|F4 F4 |C4 z4 z8| V:5 F,,4 F,,4 C,4 C,4|C,4 E,4 F,4 F,4|F,4 F,4 C,C,C,C, B,,B,,B,,B,,|A,,4 z4 F,2F,2_E,2E,2| % V:1 Bfdf Bfdf Bfdf Bfdf|=Bgdg Bgdg Bgdg Bgdg|cgeg cgeg cgeg cgeg|^caea caea caea caea| V:2 FdBd FdBd FdBd FdBd|Gd=Bd GdBd GdBd GdBd|Gece Gece Gece Gece|Ae^ce Aece Aece Aece| V:3 z16|z16|z16|z16| V:4 z16|z16|z16|z16| V:5 D,4 B,,4 D,4 B,4|G,4 z4 G,2G,2F,2F,2|E,4 C,4 E,4 C4|A,4 z4 A,2A,2G,2G,2| % V:1 dafa dafa dafa dafa|dbfb dbfb dbfb dbfb|e2c2 z4 z8|fcfa fcfa dBBB | V:2 Afdf Afdf Afdf Afdf|Bfdf Bfdf Bfdf BfdB|G2E2 z4 z8|z8 z ddd | V:3 z16|z16| |c4 z4 z fff | V:4 z16|z16| |F4 z4 z BAG F_EDC| V:5 F,4 D,4 F,4 D4|B,4 z4 B,4 B,,4|C,C,C,C, C,C,C,C, B,,B,,B,,B,, B,,B,,B,,B,,|A,,4 z4 z B,A,G, F,_E,D,C,| % V:1 gdgb gdgb eccc |aeac' aeac' fddd |=bgbd' bgbd' egc'g egc'g|dgc'g dgc'g dg=bg dgbg| V:2 d4 z4 z eee |e4 z4 z fff |f4 z4 e2e2e2e2|d2d2d2d2 d2d2d2d2| V:3 g4 z4 z ggg |a4 z4 z aaa |=b4 z4 c2c2c2c2|c2c2c2c2 =B2B2B2B2| V:4 B,4 z4 z cBA GFED|C4 z4 z dcB AGFE|D4 z4 G2G2G2G2|G2G2G2G2 G2G2G2G2| V:5 B,,4 z4 z CB,A, G,F,E,D,|C,4 z4 z DCB, A,G,F,E,|D,4 z4 C,2C,2C,2C,2|G,2G,2G,2G,2 G,,2G,,2G,,2G,,2| % V:1 ^Tutticdef ga=bc' c2c2c2c2|cdef ga=bc' c2c2c2c2|GA=Bc defg G2G2G2G2|GA=Bc defg G2G2G2G2| V:2 CDEF GA=BC C2C2C2C2|CDEF GA=BC C2C2C2C2|G,A,=B,C DEFG G,2G,2G,2G,2|G,A,=B,C DEFG G,2G,2G,2G,2| V:3 CDEF GA=Bc C2C2C2C2|CDEF GA=Bc C2C2C2C2|G,A,=B,C DEFG G,2G,2G,2G,2|G,A,=B,C DEFG G,2G,2G,2G,2| V:4 C2C2C2C2 CDEF GA=Bc|C2C2C2C2 CDEF GA=Bc|G,2G,2G,2G,2 G,A,=B,C DEFG|G,2G,2G,2G,2 G,A,=B,C DEFG| V:5 C,2C,2C,2C,2 C,D,E,F, G,A,=B,C|C,2C,2C,2C,2 C,D,E,F, G,A,=B,C|G,,2G,,2G,,2G,,2 G,,A,,=B,,C, D,E,F,G,|G,,2G,,2G,,2G,,2 G,,A,,=B,,C, D,E,F,G,| % V:1 fdfd ecec d=BdB ecec|fdfd ecec =B4 z4|f4 z4 f4 z4|c'c'c'c' c'c'c'c' c'c'c'c' c'c'c'c'| V:2 FDFD ECEC D=B,DB, ECEC|FDFD ECEC [=B4F4G,4] z4|[=B4F4G,4] z4 [B4F4G,4] z4| | V:3 DG,DG, CG,CG, =B,G,B,G, CG,CG,|DG,DG, CG,CG, [=B4F4G,4] z4|[=B4F4G,4] z4 [B4F4G,4] z4| | V:4 G,GGG G,GGG G,GGG G,GGG|G,GGG G,GGG GFED C=B,A,G,|=BAGF EDC=B, dcBA GFED| | V:5 G,,G,G,G, G,,G,G,G, G,,G,G,G, G,,G,G,G,|G,,G,G,G, G,,G,G,G, G,F,E,D, C,=B,,A,,G,,|=B,A,G,F, E,D,C,=B,, DCB,A, G,F,E,D,|C,2C,2C,2C,2 G,2G,2G,2G,2| % V:1 = ^Soloc'ggc' c'gge|^ceea aeef fddf fc'c'f|^fddf faaf ^gddg gbbg|^geeg g=bbg aeea ac'c'a| V:2 e4 g4|g4 g4 f4 f4|^f4 f4 ^g4 g4|^g4 g4 a4 a4| V:3 = c4 e4|^c4 c4 A4 A4|A4 A4 =B4 B4|=B4 B4 c4 c4| V:4 G4 E4|E4 E4 D4 D4|D4 D4 D4 D4|E4 E4 E4 E4| V:5 G,,2G,,2G,,2G,,2 C,4 C,4|A,,4 A,,4 D,4 D,4|C,4 C,4 =B,,4 B,,4
Re: [abcusers] Re: The F F (and F F2) problems
Phil Taylor wrote: Ooh that's dirty! Ties across metre changes, across into and out of broken rhythm pairs, broken rhythms used as part of triplets... Well, the general idea was to cover as many problems with the , ties, slurs and triplet brackets as possible. And then I just threw in the global accidental gimmick just to make the matter even worse. And it actually works as a piece of music too. Thanks :-) But I've got this bad feeling that's only true if you use BarFly I was rather shocked I saw and heard the output from abc2ps and abc2midi. I mean, for all it's weirdness, it's just plain abc, and though I did expect some problems, I definitely didn't expect two such prominent abc applications to come up with sheer gibberish. I really wonder what the results from other abc applications are. In case anybody want to compare, I've posted BarFly's output at: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/turkish-spam.mid and: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/turkish-spam.gif It's a slightly longer version than the one I posted at the list. The new abc can be found at: http://www.musicaviva.com/abc/turkish-spam.abc Might I suggest An Evil Grin as a title? That's a good one, but since the tune's got some vague oriental feel and since it's supposed to comment on recent events at abcusers, I though maybe Turkish Spam would be better... Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] To tell the dancer from the dance
John Chambers wrote: Atte wrote: | On Fri, 24 May 2002, Jack Campin wrote: | The point of ABC is to notate music, not music notation. | | Sorry, to interrupt, but why did you propose the i and j modifiers then? Hey, i was my suggestion; Jack only gets credit/blame for j. ;-) | That to me would be music notation and not notating music... Isn't this slicing your baloney rather thin? This might actually be fun - here's a challenge to you all: Can anybody come up with a clear and consise definition (in twenty words or less) of the difference between musically relevant and purely notational features? Frank Nordberg (wearing a really evil grin for the occasion) http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] To tell the dancer from the dance
Laurie (ukonline) wrote: A difference between two pieces of notation is musically relevant if and only if it means they should sound different. (20 words) Nice one, Laurie :-) Except, I think it ought to be will sound different rather than should sound different, that is, what matters in the end is not what the guy who wrote the notes down intended, but how the performing musicians actually interpret the stuff. But, of course, that's my personal opinion ;-) The problem with both Laurie's definition and my modified one is that they aren't very useful. Both Laurie and Phil listed a couple of examples of notation details that are irrelevant. Well, are they? - No Do any of the two definitions help us decide? - Hardly Phil Taylor wrote: The criterion of musical relevance is certainly something we should consider when discussing extensions to the language, but I don't think it's of overriding importance. I'm afraid I can't fully agree with you here, Phil. It isn't of overriding importance, of course, but it definitely is important. The question of which factors of music are relevant and which are irrelevant, is highly subjective and personal. Some might argue that accidentals are irrelevant, since they can't hear the difference between a c and a c sharp anyway, others might regard minute intonation variations to be of the greatest importance. Anybody who says this notation detail is irrelevant is necessarily wrong. If, on the other hand, he says (as Atte did) this notation detail is irrelevant to me - well, that's fair enough. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] what does THAT means ??
Forgeot Eric wrote: From: Toby Rider [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [abcusers] BOUNCE [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Non-member submission from [ForgeotEric [EMAIL PROTECTED]] Apparently your message was mistakenly caught by the new non-members filter, and then Toby corrected it by resubmitting manually. A bit weird in this case, but as long as such mistakes are caught and corrected, there shouldn't be any reason to worry. Now, for the original posting: How will the standard evolve as far as ties and slurs are concerned ? ... I understand that ties and slurs aren't the same, but slurs and triplets can interact badly, like in this example (I transcribed the notes as they were written ) Although they might be historically related, ties and slurs are two separate issues. And neither of them has anything whatsoever to do with the square or curved bracket often placed over notes in a tuplet. The fact that these three items look so similar in standard notation, should be considered a bug in the standard - unforunately one it's a bit too late to do anything about now. The fact that some abc programs confuse the three, should be considered as bugs in the respective programs and be treated accordingly. End of discussion ;-) Nice tune, btw, Eric :-) Where did you get it from? I mean, although Thorvald Trondsgård comes from Folldal, slightly outside the central parts of Hedmark and Oppland (the part of Norway that just doesn't exist as far as collectors and publishers of traditional music are concerned), it's still not one of the officially approved folk music regions of Norway, so you wouldn't expect to find the music in any standard collection. Cheers Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Action against spam, was: KAMPANYALARINIZ iCiN, MUHTESEM KAMPANYA.!!-
Atte Andre Jensen wrote: Here we go again... Tony?? Are you out there? Anyways seems this is leading nowhere, and since I don't know the exactly correct way of handling this Í propose the following: 1) Let's vote about what the opinion is with spam. Do you think it's a good idea that only subscribers can post here. You certainly have my vote, Atte. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Important Notice about keeping your ICQ account active.
John Chambers wrote: It looks like spam to me. ICQ.com is a real company with a web site, so you can check it out. Probably what they're doing is trying to trick people into signing up for their service. ICQ is actually owned by AOL. It's really nasty business if *they* are beginning to spam mailgroups... It's probably some other company trying to abuse a well known internet brand. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] another mystery tune, Norwegian this time
Richard Robinson wrote: On Fri, 1 Mar 2002, Jack Campin wrote: This one is the signature tune of the Edinburgh Shetland Fiddlers. They think it's Norwegian but nobody can remember where they got it from. Ideas? They play something like it in Orkney, too ... I do feel a bit stupid. I really should have recognized this tune. Oh well, Finska polkan is one of the better known polkas in Finland, Sweden and Norway. Despite the name, all evidence suggests it's of Swedish (probably northern Swedish) origin. It's definitely not Norwegian. Here's the tune the way I transcribed it for Musica Viva a few months ago: X:3313 T:Finska polkan T:The Finnish polka C:anon. O:Sweden? R:Polka Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://www.musicaviva.com M:2/4 L:1/16 K:F F.c2.c2 .c2.c2|F.c2(=Bc .d2).c2|F.A2.A2 .A2.A2|F.A2(^GA .B2).A2| C7(G2C2) EGCE|G(G2C2) EGCE|C7(GECE A2)(CE|FG2)F2 F2 z2:| %8vb |:F(cdcB .A2).c2|Ff6 (fg|F.a2).a2 .g2.a2|Bbb2 z2 a4| %non 8vb C7(G2C2) EGCE|G(G2C2) EGCE|C7(GECE A2)(CE|FG2)F2 F2 z2:| %8vb |:FFAcA FAcA|BbBdfd Bdfd|C7cege cdef|C7gfed cBAG| FFAcA FAcA|BbBdfd Bdfd|C7cege cege|Ff2f2 f2 z2:| W: W: W: From Musica Viva - http://www.musicaviva.com W: the Internet center for free sheet music downloads. Frank Nordberg http://www.musicaviva.com To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] chords for O'Neill?
John Chambers wrote: Yeah, but what I want to know is when the SvenskaLåtarProject will get underway. Hey, Frank; whaddaya think? (I do have copies of a few of the books. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be the right person to type in the text, just the tunes.) Count me out. I'm Norwegian an the Swedish are our bitter enemies ;-) Seriously, I don't think I have time for such a project at the moment. I have to finnish this folkband stuff, me and a few friends are founding a brand new music store up here right now, for some weird reason my poor students want me to give them lessons every now and then, I have some serious updating of Musica Viva coming up... Besides, if ever I have time for any big abc projects again, I have the Bach chorals, the Anna Magdalena Bach notebook and Lindeman's collection of Norwegian traditional music waiting in line. Frank To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes
Laurie Griffiths wrote: Yeah There are some old music history books that claimed that the Irish got the jig from the Italian tarantella The explanation for this seems to have been that the historians didn't believe that anyone in the British Isles had the brains to invent anything themselves, so they must have got it from more cultured people Well, people all over the world have always had a tendency to look abroad for exotic dance music (the French/English branle-contry dance-contre danse-contra dance-etc connection is a prime example of this) or if that failed, invent something (such as the French fake Scottish eccosaise) When it comes to the jig, the agreed upon truth during the 19th and early 20th Centuries was that the British jig came from the giga of the Italian baroque suite, although it's obviously the other way around But then again, that was the dark age of musicology and you shouldn't take *anything* written in any music history books during that period seriously unless confirmed by more reliable sources That being said, the jig - as we know it from the Elizabethan period and onwards - *is* strikingly similar to the sarabande, the canario, one of the two most important dances knwon as tarantella and a couple of other Spanish and Italian dances So far nobody has come up with any connection, but I think there *has* to be The term jig seems to have been originally used as a common term for most any uptempo dance with lots of jumpin' and jivin' and jiggn' One of the best known mid-16th C jigs, Kemp's jig, shows no resemblance at all to the modern jig, but is a dead ringer for a rujero (Concidering the fact that it's named after a famous actor/dancer/performer, it's probably a set dance anyway) X:1 T:Kemp's jig C:anon O:England Z:Transcribed by Frank Nordberg - http://wwwmusicavivacom N:Slightly simplified version M:C L:1/4 K:D Dfe fAe|Bmde dAc|GBDA GBAc|Dd3z:| |:Dfa fa|Dfa/g/ f2|Ceg eg|Ced/=c/ GBA^c| DdAFA dAFA|GBDA GBAc|Dd3z:| Frank http://wwwmusicavivacom To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] Re: OT: hornpipes
John Chambers wrote (about shottish): the constant footwork of: step-step-step-hop, step-step-step-hop, step-hop-step-hop, step-hop-step-hop Hmmm Can anybody tell the difference between a shottish and a Norwegian reinlender then? Frank http://wwwmusicavivacom To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
Re: [abcusers] Re: Folkband
Laurie Griffiths wrote: Frank asked A rant? Is there actually a dance called that??? (Reminds me of what Shakespeare says about the branle, btw) And what did Shakespeare say about the branle? (I know that one meaning of the French verb branler is not polite to mention here) Twelfth night Just some silly pun on dancing the French brawl and brawling in French to pick up girls (BTW, I thought everybody in Britain was force fed Shakespeare during elemntary school the same way us poor Norwegians are force fed Ibsen!) Frank http://wwwmusicavivacom To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://wwwtullochgormcom/listshtml
