Re: [abcusers] Lilypond to ABC converter
Luis == Luis Pablo Gasparotto [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Luis Is there anybody working on a Lilypond to ABC converter? Why would you want to go that way? Just write it in ABC in the first place. Then use the abc to lilypond converter if you want to add some of the information that lilypond stores and ABC (at least standard ABC) doesn't. Or is there some trove of lilypond somewhere that you want to manipulate in ABC? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] [Han-Wen Nienhuys] LilyPond 2.4.0 released
LilyPond version 2.4 was released today! LilyPond is a program for making beautiful music notation. It is open source/free software, and is available for all popular operating systems. It runs on most Unix flavors --including Linux and MacOS X-- and MS Windows. Use it for your music too! With this release, LilyPond does not rely anymore on TeX to do titling and page layout, but distributes page breaks optimally by itself to produce evenly spaced pages, while respecting user specified turning points. The slur formatting code has been completely rewritten, and now yields classical engraving quality results for most cases. In addition, version 2.4 adds fret diagrams, a safe execution mode for webserver use, a further simplified input format, better typography for ledger lines, many bugfixes and a fully revised and updated manual. Go and grab it at http://lilypond.org A big thank-you goes out to our contributors: Carl Sorensen David Svoboda Guy Gascoigne-Piggford Heikki Junes Hendrik Maryns Kristof Bastiaensen Mats Bengtsson Michael Welsh Duggan Peter Lutek Werner Lemberg Also thanks to our bug-hunters: Antti Kaihola, Bertalan Fodor, Brian Clements, Christian Hitz, Christoph Ludwig, Christophe Papazian, Daniel Berjón Díez, Dave Phillips, David Bobroff, David Brandon, Doug Asherman, Ed Jackson, Heinz Stolba, Jefferson dos Santos Felix, Karl Hammar, Marco Gusy, Martin Norbäck, Matthias Neeracher, Maurizio Tomasi, Michael Kiermaier, Pascal Legris, Peter Rosenbeck, Russ Ross, Stephen Pollei, Thomas Scharlowski, Will Oram, Yuval Harel, Happy music printing, The LilyPond development team, Han-Wen Nienhuys Jan Nieuwenhuizen Core development Graham Percival Documentation Editor Erik Sandberg Bugmeister Pedro Kroeger Build meister -- Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen ___ Info-lilypond mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/info-lilypond -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] LilyPond 2.2.0 released
This is really from Jan Nieuwenhuizen [EMAIL PROTECTED], who asked me
to forward it here.
Dear music enthousiasts,
LilyPond is a program for making beautiful music notation. It is
free/open source software, and is available for all popular operating
systems. It runs on most Unix flavors --including Linux and MacOS X--
and MS Windows. Use it for your music too!
LilyPond version 2.2 was released today!
This release has completely revamped support for for orchestral score
formatting, cue notes, font size management, lyric formatting, drum
notation/playback and document integration.
In addition, it has numerous syntax simplifications, proper support
for 8va brackets, and a completely updated manual.
Go and grab it at
http://lilypond.org
A big thank-you goes out to our contributors:
David Bobroff, Edward Sanford Sutton, Heikki Junes, and Nicolas
Sceaux.
Also thanks to our bug-hunters:
Alexandre Beneteau, Andrew McNabb, Atte Andre Jensen , Bertalan Fodor,
Bruce McIntyre, Dave Symonds, David Bobroff, Darius, Delma Avers, Doug
Linhardt, Eric Wurbel, Erik Sandberg, Ferenc Wagner, Hans Forbrich,
John Williams, Jos Luis Cruz, Juergen Reuter, Kieren Richard
MacMillan, Laurent Martelli, Mats Bengtsson, Matthias Kilian, Nancho
Alvarez, Nick Busigin, Nicolas Sceaux , Olivier Guery, Patrick
Atamaniuk, Paul Scott, Pawel D, Pedro Kroger, Ray McKinney, Reuben
Thomas, Rob V, Stef Epardaud, Thomas Willhalm, Thomas Scharkowski, Tom
Tom Bckstrm, Werner Lemberg, and Will Oram.
Happy music printing,
Han-Wen Nienhuys Jan Nieuwenhuizen
(core development team)
New features in 2.2 since 2.0
*
* Setting `raggedlast = ##t' in the `\paper' block causes the last
line to be set flush-left instead of justified.
* The `Timing_engraver' now sets the `Timing' alias on its
containing context automatically.
* The code for font selection has been rewritten. In addition to
existing font selection properties, the property `font-encoding'
has been added, which makes the switch between normal `text' and
other encodings like `braces', `music' and `math'.
* The pmx2ly script has been removed from the distribution.
* Pedal brackets will now run to the last bar of a piece if they are
not explicitly ended.
* Context definitions now use the word `\context' instead of
`\translator'.
* Property functions may be used as an argument to `set!', for
example
(set! (ly:grob-property grob 'beam) ... )
* In anticipation of Emacs 21.4 or 22.1, the info documentation
contains images.
* Cue notes can be quoted directly from the parts that contain them.
This will take into account transposition of source and target
instrument. For example,
\addquote clarinet \notes\relative c' {
\transposition bes
fis4 fis fis fis
}
\score {
\notes \relative c'' {
c8 d8 \quote 2 oboe es8 gis
}
}
* The transposition of an instrument can be specified using the
`\transposition' command. An E-flat alto saxophone is specified as
\transposition es'
* The naming of exported Scheme functions now follows Scheme
conventions. Changes be applied to Scheme files with
convert-ly -e -n --from=2.1.24 --to=2.1.26 *.scm
* Notes can be excluded from auto-beaming, by marking them with
`\noBeam'
c8 c \noBeam c c
will print two separate eighth notes, and two beamed notes.
* Translators and contexts have been split. The result of this
internal cleanup is that `Score' no longer is the top context;
`Score' is contained in the `Global' context. Consequently, it is
possible to tweak `Score' as follows:
\context Score \with {
...
}
* The number of staff lines in Tablature notation is now
automatically deduced from the `stringTunings' property.
* The program reference has been cleaned up and revised.
* The syntax for setting properties has been simplified: the
following table lists the differences:
(old) (new)
\property A.B = #C\set A.B = #C
\property A.B \unset \unset A.B
\property A.B \set #C = #D\override A.B #C = #D
\property A.B \override #C = #D (removed)
\property A.B \revert #C \revert A.B #C
Furthermore, if `A' is left out, the bottommost context is used by
default. In other words, it is no longer necessary to explicitly
mention `Voice', `Lyrics' or `ChordNames'.
Old:
\property Voice.autoBeaming = ##f
\property Staff.TimeSignature \set #'style = #'C
New:
\set autoBeaming = ##f
\override Staff.TimeSignature #'style = #'C
* Tweaks made with `\override' and `\revert' no longer hide tweaks
at
Re: [abcusers] ABC and MusicXML
Jack == Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jack It would be, but it would throw away many of the distinctive Jack things ABC can express. For eample, look at the pibroch Jack example in my modes tutorial. I put the canntaireachd form Jack of the music at the right margin as an ABC comment (it would Jack be messy to include it as if it were a song text). Unless Jack your ABC - XML translator retained the original ABC source, Jack there'd be no way to recover that information after a Jack round-trip translation. What I've done there is perfectly Jack standard and works in any reasonable ABC implementation, but Jack it's not invariant under translation to anything else Jack whatever. The only translator I know at all well is the abc to lilypond one, and it retains ABC comments as lilypond comments. Wouldn't that be a standard thing for any translator to do? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phil If you really want to do this you'll have to write a (fairly basic) Phil abc parser. Maybe the abc2abc program that comes with the ABCMIDI package could be modified fairly easily? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] unfolding og repeats
Atte == Atte Andr Atte writes: Atte Is there any (pref. linux-based, commandline and open-source) Atte software outthere that will unfold repeats? Abc2midi does it, so I guess if you can run abc2midi and then midi2abc, you have abc with the repeats unfolded. Probably not the answer you were looking for. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (501) 641-5011 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: mup
David == DavBarnert [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: David pdf). The problem with compatibility with abc for this format David (and I believe all the others) is support for modes. I don't think David any of the other formats know the difference between C major and A David minor. Lilypond does. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] New notation fonts for abc2ps (and variants)?
David == dcuny David writes: David If someone could suggest a good source of example notation David (other than Sigler's), that would be helpful. Look at the feta and parmesan fonts in lilypond http://www.lilypond.org. And whatever they do for fonts in MusiXTeX. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Page break formatting
Jeff == Jeff Bigler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeff I hesitate to open this can of worms, but perhaps the standard could Jeff separate commands into: Jeff %%display command Jeff command is intended for all applications that display music. Jeff %%play command Jeff command is intended for all applications that play music. Jeff %%global command Jeff command is intended for all applications. Jeff %%anythingelse command Jeff This seems so simple that I must be forgetting some obvious Jeff reason that it couldn't work. Can anyone enlighten me? Traditionally, one of the reasons to use ABC rather than other input languages is ease of typing. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Page break formatting
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Basically, I think the original abc2mtex model was a good Richard and helpful way to look at it - go through the file Richard replacing each individual tune with something that a Richard typesetter can treat as a tune, and then hand the whole Richard issue over to the typesetter. Like I said before, keep Richard things separate. And I think lilypond-book is like that Richard too ? It can be. And most people treat it that way. But there are things like \pagebreak in lilypond-book, for when you really need them. I think they're just translated into TeX \penalty commands that are passed through to the typesetter. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Page break formatting
Irwin == I Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irwin Application that operate on the level of individual Irwin tunes, can better ignore it. Are you assuming that all tunes fit on one page? If not, it seems like one very well might need %%newpage or some such within a tune. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] bass clef and transposition
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John You can use middle=NOTE (or just m=NOTE) to say what abc note you John want to appear on the middle staff line. If you're going to allow specification of non-five-line staffs, you might want to say 'line or space' here. For instance, if you had a four-line staff, you might want to specify the pitch of the middle space. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Page break formatting
I == I Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I Unless an application can handle a complete tunebook in I a well-defined way, you will never be sure how I individual tunes will be formatted on the page, and I consequently you won't know what the right position I will be to insert a newpage directive. It's always a nuisance to have to insert newpage directives, and the 16th century composers I transcribe most often did in fact do the equivalent of a new tune when their pieces went over a page. But there are lots of reasons why you might want to specify where the page turn goes -- for instance if you were doing partbooks, and wanted the page numbering to be consistent for all parts. I've spent all these years struggling to learn LaTeX, and I'm not going to learn abcm2ps %% directives to replace that with, but as someone who has had the flexibility of LaTeX for all these years, I assure you that one of the things people often want to use it for is to specify where page breaks come. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] man
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phil More's the point, how could I have discovered the existence Phil of col for myself? I would have guessed man -k backspace might do it for you, but it doesn't on my LINUX system. man -k filter does come up with both col and colcrt. Filter is unix jargon for the kind of program you would expect to need for the job. Phil The biggest problem with getting things done in Unix seems Phil to be that you keep hitting these barriers where you can't Phil figure out the solution and you just have to go and ask Phil someone who knows. What's wrong with asking someone who knows? In the UNIX world, people who know just love being able to tell people who don't know. Once you know, you will too. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] [Han-Wen Nienhuys hanwen@cs.uu.nl] LilyPond 1.8 - make beautiful music prints
Forwarded fForwarded from the lilypond-info list:
LilyPond is an automated music engraving system: it is used to make
gorgeous sheet music. Use it for your music too!
Information, examples and documentation are available from the
completely redesigned website, which is at
http://lilypond.org
This release is focused on internal and external cleanups: Scheme and
LilyPond input can now be seamlessly mixed. Entry and layout of texts,
chord names and chords has been revised and cleaned up entirely.
Happy music printing!
Han-Wen Nienhuys Jan Nieuwenhuizen
(core development team)
New features in 1.8 since 1.6
*
* The chord entry code has been completely rewritten. It is now
cleaner and more flexible.
* A new syntax has been added for text entry. This syntax is more
friendly than the old mechanism, and it is implemented in a more
robust and modular way. For more information, refer to the section
on Text markup in the notation manual.
* The integration of the input language and Scheme has been made
deeper: you can now use LilyPond identifiers in Scheme, and use
Scheme expressions instead of LilyPond identifiers.
* The internal representation of music has been cleaned up completely
and converted to Scheme data structures. The representation may be
exported as XML.
* A new uniform postfix syntax for articulation has been introduced.
A beamed slurred pair of eighth notes can be entered as
c8-[-( d8-]-)
In version 2.0, postfix syntax will be the only syntax available,
and the dashes will become optional.
This will simplify the language: all articulations can be entered
as postfix, in any order.
* A new syntax has been added for chords:
PITCHES
It is not necessary to update files to this syntax, but it will be
for using LilyPond version 2.0. In version 2.0, this syntax will
be changed to
PITCHES for chords
and
\simultaneous { .. }
for simultaneous music.
To convert your files from PITCHES to PITCHES, use the script
included in buildscripts/convert-new-chords.py
This change was introduced for the following reasons
* It solves the start score with chord problem, where you
have to state \context Voice explicitly when a chord was
the start of a Staff or Score.
* With the new syntax, it is possible to distinguish between
articulations (or fingerings) which are for a single chord
note, and which are for the entire chord. This allows for
per-note fingerings, and is more logical on the whole.
* User code may now be executed during interpreting. The syntax for
this code is
\applycontext #SCHEME-FUNCTION
* User code may now be executed on arbitrary grobs during
interpreting. The syntax for this feature is
\applyoutput #SCHEME-FUNCTION
SCHEME-FUNCTION takes a single argument, and is called for every
grob that is created in the current context.
* New algorithms for chord-name formatting have been installed. They
can be tuned and have ergonomic syntax for entering exceptions.
* Texts may now be put on multimeasure rests, eg.
R1*20^\markup { GP }
* Ancient notation now prints ligatures in Gregorian square neumes
notation, roughly following the typographical style of the Liber
hymnarius of Solesmes, published in 1983. Ligatures are still
printed without the proper line breaking and horizontal spacing.
* Glissandi can now be printed using the zigzag style.
* LilyPond can now print clusters. The syntax is:
\apply #notes-to-clusters { NOTE NOTE .. }
* For irregular meters, beat grouping marks can be printed. The
syntax for this is
#(set-time-signature 7 8 '(3 2 2))
* Nested horizontal brackets for music analysis can now be printed.
NOTE-\startGroup
..
NOTE-\stopGroup
* Ottava brackets are now fully supported as a feature. The syntax
is
#(set-octavation 1)
* Metronome markings are printed when a \tempo command is processed.
* Fingerings can be put on chords horizontally.
* The appearance of various glyphs has been fine-tuned.
* Different types of percent style repeats may now be nested.
* The emacs support has been extended.
* The manual has been completely revised and extended.
--
Han-Wen Nienhuys | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.xs4all.nl/~hanwen
___
Info-lilypond mailing list
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Re: [abcusers] mensurstriche
Jack == Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jack BTW, how well do existing ABC applications handle pieces Jack where the voices are not all barred the same? For single-voice music, most of them used to be pretty good. For multi-voice music, it varies -- abcm2ps used to be the worst of the abc2ps clones. I've gotten out of the habit of using abc typesetting except for abc2ly -- lilypond just looks so much better and gives me so many options once I have it, that I only use abc for typesetting when I have a lute tab, and then I wish I'd gotten around to fixing abc2ly so that it takes abctab2ps input. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] mensurstriche
Anders == Anders Wiren [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Anders We have invisible barline [|] and we can specify draw Anders barlines between staves. So if we can do both of these at once, with the barline on the staff invisible, and the one between it visible, we have what I'm talking about. Anders This will of course screw up representation of the note Anders lengths unless there is rule saying draw two notes tied Anders over an invisible barline as one note. I don't see why it should screw up the representation, unless the new standard is requiring that an ABC parser look at the note lengths and the bar lines and insist that they be compatible. Which I hadn't noticed, and it would be a bad mistake. That is, the following ABC should be perfectly legal. X:1 T: notes cross barlines without ties M:C L:1/4 K:C G6 | A2 | B4 If we were using mensurstriche, the first barline should be under the dotted whole note, instead of between it and the half note. I haven't ever done ABC like this, because as I said in my first post, I don't like mensurstriche, but abc2ly, abc2ps, and abc2midi all do exactly what you would expect with it. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] mensurstriche
I haven't read the new standard about multiple staves, but does it allow specification of bar's *between* the staves but *not* on them? This is something a lot of people (not me) like for early music that was originally published as unbarred parts. It's usually easier for modern players to sightread from a score which has the indication of where the barlines might be, but doesn't need to screw up representation of the note lengths. That is, a note length that straddles a bar can still be represented as one note, and not two tied notes. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC standard changelog
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John I. Oppenheim writes: John | John | %%propagate-accidentals 0 | 1 John | John | When set to 0, accidentals apply only to the note they're attached to. John | When set to 1, accidentals also apply to all the notes of the same pitch John | in the same octave that appear after the note that they're attached to, John | up to the end of the bar. John | John | The default value is 1. John Hmmm ... As others have pointed out recently, a very common John rule (except when it's not ;-) would be: John When set to 2, accidentals also apply to all the notes of John the same pitch in all octaves up to the end of the bar. I think it would be better to have a text description than an integer value. As John points out, there might be several other options besides the two I currently use. One that might be even more useful than applies only to the attached note would be applies to the attached note and any note(s) of the same value immediately following. John This is probably what abc player programs should take as John the default. For display purposes, of course, it doesn't John matter, since all three cases look the same on paper. And John we might mention that advisory accidentals are often good John even when not strictly necessary. Speaking of advisory accidentals, that seems to me to be something that we've talked about fairly often, and it still hasn't made it into the standard. That is, for an accidental which isn't strictly necessary by the normal standards for notation, but which the transcriber believes will help a performer, there should be some typographical distinction, like putting it in parentheses, and ABC printing programs should allow you to indicate this. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC Standard 2.0 revision III
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Though, yes, the use of the existing %%midi namespace Richard would be a clue - helpful in general (since it gives a Richard rough idea of what sort of work it does) and misleading Richard in particular (since, as Phil says, it's all player apps Richard that would need to look at it, not just midi ones). It isn't just player apps -- it's any app that expects an absolute note value rather than a description of the note's appearance on the staff. So abc2ly, which you would normally think of as a typesetter, needs it just as much, and for the same reason, as abc2midi. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC Standard 2.0 revision III
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Ah. Interesting, yes. Also, come to think of it, ny Richard abc_compare, which borrowed the abcMIDI parser, to unroll Richard ABC into a stream of notes. Does abc2ly also unroll Richard repeats, etc ? Optionally. There's an argument to the repeat command that will do it. So the kosher way to get a MIDI file that has the repeats in it, while having the conventional music notation that has the repeats indicated with |: and :| is to have two separate \score blocks, one of which has the same notes but the repeats have the unfold option. I don't know that anyone's really happy with this. The way I deal with it is to use the lilypond MIDI file to do proofreading, where repeating the same notes you've already found to be accurate is a time-waster, and generate the performing MIDI file, where you want the repeats unfolded, with abc2midi. Richard If so, maybe what we're actually talking about is a Richard distinction between 2 parsing methods - unroll into a Richard stream and then re-parse, vs do something with each Richard symbol in the order (moreorless) given by the ABC. ?? No, we're really talking about a parsing method that insists on getting an absolute note value (so you have to know what accidentals the transcriber *meant* in addition to the ones he or she typed) and one that only cares about what the note looks like on the page (so you can assume that if the transcriber didn't type one, they don't want to see one). -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Revising the ABC standard.
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Increasingly, I begin to wonder if this should be seen as Richard a fork. I've been arguing the toss over a lot of these Richard new proposals, on the grounds that they might as well be Richard done right if at all, but I'm also beginning to wonder Richard whether I'd actually be prepared to update to software Richard that conforms to it, if/when anybody changes the code to Richard do so. I agree with this. One thing that seems to me missing from this effort is a codification of exactly where this standard is incompatible with previous versions of the standard. That is, not where ABC which works with one or more current applications will fail with a program designed to the new standard, but where something written with a sincere desire to adhere to the standard will have to be modified to adhere to the new standard. The '*' for right justification seems like an example of this, and midline fields with a continuation character before them may be another. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC Standard 2.0 revision III
I notice that the clefs section uses only a small number of arbitrary names, and doesn't allow for specifying shapes on lines. I think you should also allow: G1, G2,...G5 F1, F2,...F5 C1, C2,...C5 Or at least, make C, G, and F names as well as treble, alto, etc. For the C clefs in particular, all 5 lines are in fact used in Renaissance music, and limiting the notation to 7 named clefs is a problem. I understand that you can in fact say alto 5, or alto middle=F (or is it middle=F,?) to indicate a C clef on the fifth line, but this is really counterintuitive. It's much clearer to say, I'm transcribing this from a part with a C clef on the fifth line, than to say Here is a funny alto clef that's on the fifth line instead of the third, which makes it not an alto clef at all. Besides, those of us who typically read from only treble and bass clefs, can't ever remember which line an alto C clef is on. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC Standard 2.0 revision III
I don't see any discussion of the relationship between accidentals and barlines. This is important, because in order to translate ABC, which records the appearance of a note in staff notation, into, e.g., MIDI or lilypond, which records the absolute pitch of the note, you need to know how long an accidental persists. The _de facto_ standard, as introduced by me into both abc2midi and abc2ly, is that the directive: %%MIDI nobarlines indicates that there are no barlines dividing the measures, so an accidental applies only to the note it's on, and not to all the notes until the end of the piece. It's really necessary to be able to specify this. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Higher notation anyone?
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John (I do think abc could use some competition, though. When are we going John to see some big Lilypond or MusicML web sites?) Mine's a pretty big Lilypond web site. There are pointers to a couple of others on the lilypond page. In terms of number of tunes, of course none of them compare with some of the big ABC sites, but there are still reasons to use ABC for a giant collection of tunes. And of course, I generally provide the ABC in addition to the lilypond, since lots more people are able to install and run ABC software, or to read it without software. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC Standard 2.0 revision III
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wil Do we lose anything if we couple this to M:none? or do we Wil need to be able to specify Wil both a meter (M:C comes to mind) and separately the behaviour of Wil accidentals? Yes. Not having barlines is very different from not having a meter. Most Renaissance tunes have a meter of C, C|, 3/2 or something, but they either didn't use barlines at all or used them for something very different from telling you where the effects of an accidental end. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC Standard 2.0 revision III
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Not having barlines is very different from not having a meter. Most Renaissance tunes have a meter of C, C|, 3/2 or something, but they either didn't use barlines at all or used them for something very different from telling you where the effects of an accidental end. Phil M:3/2 normally means three half notes per measure, There we go with that word normal again. Before the 18th century, there was nothing 'normal' about a measure -- they just didn't exist. Which doesn't mean that composers didn't use the time signature to tell performers what the meter of the piece was. Phil so what does the metre mean in the context of a piece of Phil music which is not divided into measures? That you expect things to be in groups of three or four or whatever. For instance, you wouldn't say there was nothing triple about a jig even if it were written in a notation that didn't put barlines every N eighth notes, would you? Phil Also I don't like the idea of Phil %%MIDI nobarlines Phil because it means something totally at odds with what it says. Bar Phil lines have nothing to do with midi - the midi standard provides Phil no way of representing them because they are a purely visual Phil feature of printed music I think it's a pretty good description of the music that would want to tell a MIDI (or lilypond) writing program what I want to tell it, though. The barlines are not purely visual, because any program that translates standard notation into MIDI has to use them to decide how to interpret the accidentals. Phil If you want to specify that accidentals are non-persistent you Phil should not use %%midi becuase the implication is that a program Phil which plays abc directly without using midi can ignore it. I'm perfectly willing to live with some other terminology if other people feel it communicates the idea better. The standard does need a way to communicate this idea, though, and as far as I know, this is the only method in current use. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers]ABC Standard 2.0 revision III
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John Next you'll be telling us that Britney Spears is a musician ... Does she follow standards? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] multivoice linecontinuation
Arent == Arent Storm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Also, when using abc to store complex scores, I think that human readablity is of very small importance, if at all; it will be uncomprehensable anyway. Not all multivoice scores are impossible to read. Jack Campin has some beautifully-constructed abcs of tunes in two or three voices. Arent Not impossible, but in general there will be very little Arent need for it, I guess that sight-readers of ABC will haveno Arent need for it, so it'll be more otr less pointless to try. Maybe there aren't that many people who sight-read ABC to perform, but presumably everybody (who isn't using some kind of GUI interface) reads their own ABC to correct errors. So making it unreadable is a way of making it unusable, because you'll have to get everything right the first time you type it, and I never do. I started using ABC instead of musixtex because I got eyestrain whenever I tried to read the musixtex input, and I continue to use it for data entry instead of lilypond because I find it faster to both type and read. If this advantage goes away, I'll figure out how to type lilypond and use templates for the untypeable stuff. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] multivoice linecontinuation
Arent == Arent Storm [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irwin % variant A Irwin G2G2A4 | (FEF) D (A2G) G|\ Irwin M:4/4 Irwin K:C Irwin c2c2(B2c2) | I think this is actually an example of a recommended syntax in some pretty widespread documentation. (Probably something that comes with abcMIDI or abc2ps.) So you can deprecate it, but you aren't going to be able to not handle it, if you want to deal with what's out there. Arent Is it used often? I used to use it and stopped because I always let the software determine the line breaks for me. But if I were still expecting to determine my own line breaks, I might still be doing it that way. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] expected abc audience
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Which reminded me of abc2ly. I looked at that once and Richard found it wouldn't deal with large amounts of my abc Why not? If it's the one tune per run limitation, abcselect will deal with that for you. Richard ... which leads me to realise we've never really Richard mentioned it. But it's abc-reading software, whatever the Richard output (I think Laura uses it, I'm not sure how many Richard others do). I don't think very many. I had a correspondence with one user last Spring. I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who didn't also write unix scripts pretty fluently. E.g. for running abcselect on a file with multiple tunes, writing a latex file to include the output for all of them, and running lilypond on the ones that have changed. But if you go to lilypond, you've suddenly removed an awful lot of the ABC limitations people here complain about. Richard I'm not sure if the distinction between abc-only software Richard and converters-toother-formats is meaningful - after all, Richard midi, ps, png, whatever, are other file formats, Richard too. Surely the main point is that all software needs to Richard parse ABC ? I assumed that he didn't mention abc2ly and several other things because they only go one way (unless you want to go through MIDI or something disgusting like that). -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] expected abc audience
Richard == Richard Robinson
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Richard No, it wasn't that, just the problem of variant
Richard dialects. The last time I tried it (a couple of days ago,
Richard after the mention in uc.o.l reminded me of it) I hit a
Richard tune I'd just typed up which specifically wanted an
Richard acciaccatura, abcm2ps's {/gracenote}. Which abc2ly didn't
Richard like ...
I'm really out of touch with abcm2ps development (because it doesn't
deal at all well with most of the music *I* do). But that doesn't
sound like it would be difficult to implement, if you let me know
about such things. Also, you could check whether making the lilypond
print acciaccatura instead of standard gracenote can be done with a
%%LY statement.
Richard To be fair, I've just tried it on a big version of the
Richard Black Joak, and it didn't report any problems there
Richard (though lilypond subsequently blew up on a missing
Richard start-repeat ...)
Can you send me that file? I thought I had that fixed. But you're
better off pairing repeats, because then lily knows that you have a
repeat structure. If you don't pair them, she just tries to put in the
barlines she thinks you want, but you don't have the options like
unfolding the repeats or doing more alternative endings that you would
if lily knew your repeat structure.
Richard [ It may be relevant to mention that I'm running Debian
Richard Linux (stable), and therefore probably quite a long way
Richard behind current versions. ]
If it's 1.4, you should upgrade. You can get 1.6 from
ftp://ftp.lilypond.org/pub/LilyPond/binaries/debian. Unfortunately,
upgrading to 1.7, which is soon to become the next 1.8 stable version,
will require getting some stuff from unstable. But I had 1.6 on a
pure stable system.
Richard My thought was just that, this is possibly an important
Richard abc-reading program, but I don't think we've heard from
Richard its developers at all, on this list ? And maybe there are
Richard other such.
I'm probably the most active maintainer, although I haven't done
anything to 1.7. And I do mention it from time to time, but don't
seem to get much interest back. I don't know why, since it solves a
lot of the problems people discuss here.
Richard Oh, I can do that stuff ... but if you use lilypond like
Richard that, haven't you cut yourslef off from ABC ?
It's true that it's a nuisance when you have to correct both an ABC
file and a lilypond file for the same error. But my website generally
has all of ABC, lilypond, MIDI, and pdf, and I get mail from users of
all of those formats.
Richard I don't think I'd want to use lilypond as primary storage
Richard for tunes, it's too wordy.
I save both. My database that describes what I put on the web has a
field for whether the lilypond is a straight conversion from the ABC
or has extra information in it. I have a %%LY statement that allows
me to put some of the lilypond information into the ABC file, but
anything that fiddles with the actual notes (for instance, cautionary
accidentals) has to be edited in the lilypond file.
Richard But if an abc2ly could read, say, a
Richard new-improved-standard-ABC, then conversion-on-the-fly
Richard might make lilypond-book a better alternative to my own
Richard ABC-ps-via-LaTeX scripts.
I don't feel particularly sanguine about reaching consensus for a
new-improved-standard (based on having been following this list for
almost 10 years), but anything that doesn't break backward
compatibility that you really want to use, I'll try to implement.
Since someone finally asked, I have daydreams, which may turn into
actual coding in the next couple of months, of enabling both
abctab2ps-style tablature and figured bass in abc2ly. You do *not*
want to type the lilypond input for either one, but the lilypond
output is really nice. See
http://www.laymusic.org/music/veracini/book/sonatas.pdf for examples
of the figured bass.
--
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] multivoice linecontinuation
Irwin == I Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irwin % variant A Irwin G2G2A4 | (FEF) D (A2G) G|\ Irwin M:4/4 Irwin K:C Irwin c2c2(B2c2) | I think this is actually an example of a recommended syntax in some pretty widespread documentation. (Probably something that comes with abcMIDI or abc2ps.) So you can deprecate it, but you aren't going to be able to not handle it, if you want to deal with what's out there. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] expected abc audience
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Can you send me that file? I thought I had that fixed
Richard You probably have - it's just the same old much-argued missing
Richard start-repeat at the beginning of the opening bar. Some ABC apps
Richard complain, as well, but recover.
OK, if there's nothing special, the test I just did not only didn't
crash, but did actually put in the \repeat {...}, rather than just the
\bar .|. But I got a crash when I put a second one in, i.e.
stuff :| more stuff :|
I'll put that on the list to fix. Or at least to give an error message.
Richard The way I do it is to let Debian manage everything except
Richard the things where I want to be up to the edge (mainly
Richard abc-related stuff), which I install myself in /usr/local
Richard ; I don't really want to get involved with debian
Richard unstable, I like a solid system.
You might be able to get 6.9 or so by adding:
deb ftp://ftp.lilypond.org/pub/LilyPond/binaries/debian stable .
to /etc/apt/sources.list. I also had
deb ftp://ftp.lilypond.org/pub/LilyPond/binaries/debian unstable .
but I don't think that had any effect until I started messing with
unstable by setting pin priorities.
Richard So it's a circularity problem - outofdate abc2ly doesn't
Richard do what I'm wanting so I hadn't clocked it as important
Richard so I haven't kept up to date ... I may have been wrong
Richard about that, lilypond-book might just better a better
Richard wheel than the ones I've cooked up for myself.
I like it a lot. It lets you pretty much use music like any other
latex kind of thing (i.e., much easier than a graphic entity).
--
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
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Re: [abcusers] expected abc audience
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard I notice it prints without title or other text. You must be using lilypond-book? If you use the standard ly2dvi, it prints the Title and Composer. Richard I'm sure this is configurable, I wonder where ... There's a lot of stuff on the mailing lists about how to have lilypond-book use the same format as ly2dvi does -- let me know if you ever get it working. I mostly use lilypond-book when I want to use different headers, e.g., in a whole book of Dowland songs, I don't necessarily want the C: John Dowland info on every piece. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] expected abc audience
Irwin == I Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irwin When I tried one my tunes, I got this output: Irwin Irwin abc2ly from LilyPond 1.6.10 Irwin Parsing `shnei.abc'... Irwin Line ... shnei.abc: 21: Huh? Don't understand Irwin G|G2G2A4|(FEF) D (A2G) G|c2c2(B2c2)|(f2e2)e2d G| Irwin shnei.abc: 24: Huh? Don't understand Irwin G2G G A4|(FE) F D (A2G) d|d2g g (fedc)|(B2A2)A2G3/2 G/2| Irwin shnei.abc: 26: Huh? Don't understand Irwin g2 d d (_e2c2)|(_ec) B c (dBG) G|g2d2(_e3c)|(dcBc) d2d2| Irwin lilypond output to: `shnei.ly'... Irwin I must say that I do not find the comment Huh? Don't Irwin understand very helpful. No, lots of people say that. Running your file through the 1.7.27 abc2ly doesn't give any error messages, but then lilypond complains: /home/lconrad/music/drinking/book/test.ly:9:42: error: syntax error, unexpected E_CHAR: She- nei zei- tim nich- _ _ ra- tim _ \ So what needs to change in your abc is the w:She-nei zei-tim nich-__ra-tim_\ w:be-gan na-'ul_ yats-_hi-ru. Le- construct. The bug is really that it puts the \ into the lily file -- it should just use it to escape the newline. But I'm not sure what the putative abc standard would say about this construction -- if I were going to continue a w: line, I would have guessed that you *don't* repeat the w: on the continuation. Irwin The manpage didn't give any information on which ABC Irwin constructs are implemented an which not, so I'm clueless. I suspect someone's arm could be twisted to expand the abc2ly section in the documentation, but surely the man page would be the wrong place for details about abc syntax? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: continuations
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phil Er, why would you want to put a space in place of the backslash? Phil Joining the two lines without a separator seems the logical Phil thing to do (or at least I can't immediately think of a situation Phil where adding a space would make sense). When I started using the -c option on abc2ps, I was quite surprised when some of my 8th notes were beamed, because only a newline separated them, whereas most of them were not, because I had deliberately put spaces between them. I thought that most people would assume that any whitespace, including newline, would cause the 8th's to not be beamed. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc2win vs. ABC...
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ah, but I didn't mean TeX formatting of the musical notation. I meant, how to get typesetting of text that surrounds abc, how to handle the mixing of text and tunes - placing abc tunes on a sheet of paper along with other text; or text on a sheet of tunes, depending on how you look at it. If the music is in TeX, it is easy to handle the accompaniying text in (La)TeX as well. Richard I'm not sure of your point here ? Do you mean that the Richard packages you mention can be used to convert ABC into TeX, Richard as an alternative to converting it into eps via the Richard usual suspects ? I can't speak to what Irwin meant, but it is indeed true that if you convert ABC into lilypond, you can then include the lilypond in a Latex file to create a Latex document. I believe there are similar possibilities with musixtex. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc2win vs. ABC...
Richard == Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard What I do is take all the text out of the abc tune, use Richard the usual abc2ps suspects to generate an eps of the bare Richard tune (with no text), have LaTeX set the title and any Richard other abc-tune text (according to a printf-style format Richard string) and then use LaTeX's \includegraphics to get the Richard tune eps in. I did a whole book like that. A major disadvantage was that most of the tunes in my book took more than one page, so I had to do the page-breaking by hand. That's one of the reasons I use lilypond-book now. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] !nobreak!
Irwin == I Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irwin Maybe you can comment on how the !nobreak! command is Irwin implemented in lilypond, where you found it useful? Lilypond translates the lilypond input format into TeX, so it's implemented via the TeX line-breaking algorithm. This is described in detail in Digital Typesetting by Donald Knuth, and in less detail in The TeXbook by the same author. The short answer is that possible places for line breaks have penalties attached to them, and a \nobreak puts a very high penalty for a break there, and a \break puts a very low (or maybe negative) penalty. The reason I find \nobreak useful is that I often print out scores at different typesizes for different purposes, so saying where the lines *should* break doesn't make sense, but there are certain places where they definitely *shouldn't* break (which are nevertheless on barlines). Irwin On Fri, 11 Jul 2003, Phil Taylor wrote: The other suggestion made here, that we need another character to mark a place where programs should _not_ linebreak seems much less useful. I can see that one might want to specify a section of a tune where linebreaks were not permitted, but if you specify a single point, what is the program to do if a linebreak falls naturally there? Move the line break one note (or one bar) to the right or to the left? Lilypond only does line breaking on a barline, so if you want a break where there isn't one, you have to put one in (which can be invisible). Either way the programming's gonna get messy. Programming a good linebreaking algorithm is indeed messy. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] !nobreak!
Laura == Laura Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Either way the programming's gonna get messy. Laura Programming a good linebreaking algorithm is indeed messy. Which is why the authors of lilypond and MusixTeX decided to let Donald Knuth do it for them. Unfortunately, this raises the installation penalty on commercial operating systems even more than using Java or Postscript does. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Kind of solved (Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John And I've wondered whether cedille and ogonek are actually John two different things, or just different artistic John representations of the same mark. I know that you see a John variety of such tails in the languages that use them, but John I don't know of a language that regularly makes use of two John different such tails. But I suppose it could be nice to be John able to specify which you want in case it makes a difference John to someone. I agree that Polish doesn't use a cedilla for anything, but I assure you that Polish readers would think you were dyslexic if you used a cedilla instead of an ogonek. It's backwards. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC examples with bang?
Bernard == Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bernard But why would you want to put :: at the end of the tune Bernard when :| is correct notation? Do you really want to see a Bernard repeat-both-ways barline at the end? I think not. In modern notation you wouldn't, but if you were trying to make a transcription look like the original, you might. Early 17th century music frequently ends with something that looks like a ::. Bernard And a fermata over the final bar has no meaning Bernard either. You could put it over the final note, but a Bernard fermata over a barline means a pause here and that has Bernard no meaning at the end, I suggest. Again, this is the modern meaning of fermata, but earlier music does use it differently. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Skink
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phil That doesn't work in BarFly either. The alignment is Phil disrupted because bar lines in the lyric are treated as Phil words. Also because neither the program nor I knows what \- Phil means. (It's not one of the TeX escape sequences, and if it Phil means the hyphen is to be treated literally why bother, Phil since the hyphen gets displayed anyway?) After editing Phil these oddities out it displayed correctly. I don't think you should consider either of these as an oddity. The draft standard (1.7.6) lists them as commands that should be parsed: $ Within the lyrics, the following words should be separated by one or more $ blank spaces and to correctly align them the following symbols may be used: $ $ - break between syllables within a word $ | advance to next bar $ _ (underscore) last syllable is to be held for an extra note $ * one note is skipped (i.e. * is equivalent to a blank syllable) $ ~ appears as a space but connects syllables each side into one $ \- appears as - sign in output. $ \ continuation character; next w: field is part of the same line -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Yacc and lex
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wil Why isn't anybody else using Java? Have you tried convincing people without a fast net connection to download it? If they force Microsoft to install it, probably everybody will start using it. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Yacc and lex
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wil I disagree, but maybe I have a different idea of 'realistic Wil size'. I'd be interested to see what your opinion would be Wil of Skink. I like Skink a lot, but I have yet to convince any of my friends to install it. It seems like it would be a good solution to some of their problems, but the idea of dealing with that large of a download and installation on a home computer with a modem and likely a small amount of available disk just makes them not even look. I don't think it's a runtime problem -- I run it on a fairly old Windows 98 laptop. It's the installation. And these are people for whom you'd expect a reasonable music transcription program would be a killer app. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Solution for ! notation?
Jeff == Jeff Bigler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Jeff I would find it particularly useful to have an explicit Jeff linebreak command that would override the continue all line Jeff ends (append '\') option to the abc2ps-like programs. Jeff Usually, I want the program to just decide where to put the Jeff line breaks, with a few rare exceptions. I feel the same way about having the program figure it out. But I find when I'm writing lilypond, which has both \break and \noBreak commands, I use \noBreak much more often. That is, usually it doesn't matter to me, but once in a while there's a line break at a clearly undesirable place, so I say, Don't do that, and then lily does something more reasonable. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] codepages
Bernard == Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Richard Umm. Even if you only write in Spanish, French, German, Danish, Richard Norwegian, Swedish ... you're going to want non-127 accented Richard characters. If you don't write lyrics you'll want them for a tune Richard title. Or even English: The First Noël Bernard That would be French. In English it's The First Nowell. In American, it's The First Noël. In any case, there are lots of other English words that need some kind of non-ascii character to be spelled correctly: naïve, fiancée... Noël was just the first one that occurred to me as being in the title of a commonly known piece of music. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: Kind of solved ([abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps))
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
John One thing I can see missing right now is the cedille that
John Romanian and Polish use on some letters other than C. I
John suppose the obvious notation for this would be \,s and \,t.
It's called an ogonek (in Polish, anyway), and it's backwards from a
cedilla. That is, a cedilla is like a 5 without the top horizontal
line, and the ogonek is a mirror image of this.
The LaTeX for it is \k{o}, if it's on a lowercase o. You need to
activate T1 encoding for this to work.
--
Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ )
(617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574
233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
Bernard == Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bernard Maybe we need a register of accepted application names/codes. There is one on the sourceforge ABC site. It seems to be down at the moment, so I can't post an exact URL. I want to echo some comments made by other members of the previously formed standards committee -- I hope this new effort succeeds better than ours did. I do hope that the new effort won't completely ignore the work from the old effort. If you need any information about or pointers to some of that work, I'm one of the people to ask. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
Laura == Laura Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laura There is one on the sourceforge ABC site. It seems to be Laura down at the moment, so I can't post an exact URL. It's back up: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/abc/src/standard/pp_directives.txt?rev=HEADcontent-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Accented characters in lyrics (abc2ps)
Bernard == Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bernard But this avoids the question of what *is* the character Bernard set? For the Americans £ (pound!) and Euro are extended Bernard characters yet of course for a European accented Bernard characters of all sorts are right there on the keyboard Bernard and are typed into the document! To make a Frenchman type Bernard \'a when it's a key on the keyboard is pretty strange, if Bernard not insulting! I admit to being lazy enough to type á instead of \'a myself, but if I (or your hypothetical Frenchman) really cared about portability, we would either type the \'a or use a system like X-Symbol (for emacsen) that substitutes the correct TeX or HTML for what we type. Speaking of which, do any of the ABC emacs modes play correctly with X-Symbol? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Fwd: abc and microtonality
Irwin == I Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Irwin On Tue, 24 Jun 2003, Phil Taylor wrote: That is not a good idea. Several of these letters (THLMPSO?) have already a predefined meaning. It would be better to leave these letters free. Irwin Let me make myself more clear. I meant to say that it Irwin should be up to the end user to bind a symbol to the Irwin free letters H-Z if he so desires, and that any such Irwin binding should not be predefined let alone hardwired by Irwin the programmer of an ABC application. Do you really think that all the ABC that assumes that H means fermata should suddenly stop working, because all the programmers should remove the predefinition of H? I agree that it should be possible to redefine H, but not that every ABC file that uses it to mean fermata should have to be rewritten to define it as fermata, which most ABC writers (including me) have no idea how to do. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] source and copyright
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John This is the main advantage of that little circle-c in a C or Z line. John In the C line, it says that the composition itself is copyright by John the composer; in the Z line, it says that the transcription (but not John the music) is copyright by the transcriber. A copyright symbol on a B John or D line similarly tells you who owns rights to the book or John recording, although they may not own the tune itself. This is a nice theory. Unfortunately, the way the abc printing programs I know anything about deal with the C: line doesn't correspond to the way any printed music I know of would actually print a copyright. That is, what you expect printed music to have is something like: Title Composer name first page of music (c) date Composer name If I say in my ABC: C: Laura Conrad (c) 2003 it's not going to print that way. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc repository similiar to olga.net?
Steve == Steve Mansfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Has anyone thought of compiling a centralized database of abc tunes similar to olga.net.. Steve /discussion Steve But I've still not heard anything that makes me think that Steve this sort of centralised abc database has any advantage or Steve real purpose. I think if all it does is mirror (or worse copy) stuff that's already on the net, it doesn't. What I think might be of more value is something that combines a mirror, or even just indexing and pointer like John's tune finder, with something that allows submission of tunes that aren't on the net yet. There must be lots of people writing ABC who don't have a website but would like to share their work. http://www.cpdl.org would be a good model for this. When Rafael Ornes first approached me about having my stuff included, he was thinking in terms of keeping copies on his site, and I told him I wasn't comfortable with that, for the reasons other posters in this thread have cited -- sometimes I make corrections or improvements, and I don't want the uncorrected version lying around after that. I imagine other people made the same objections, and now, the central feature of the site is the database and searching facility, and providing a link to be put in the database is the preferred way of contributing, but I believe that you can also send your work to Rafael and have it both in the database and on the cpdl website. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] musical terms
Guido == Guido Gonzato [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido I'm writing stuff and I need the help of French and German Guido speaking people. I want to write a table where the main Guido musical terms are listed in four languages: Italian, Guido English, French, and German. Spanish would be a nice Guido addition. Check out http://lilypond.org/stable/Documentation/user/out-www/music-glossary.html -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC for Linux
Paulo == Paulo Eleutério Tibúrcio [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paulo Skink Paulo http://www.geocities.com/Nashville/7088/abc4mac.html Paulo Allows you to edit, view and play ABC 1.6. I Paulo couldn't get it to read more complex ABCs. I hope you sent bug reports about the ABC's it wouldn't read. Wil is a really responsive developer, and after I sent him some bug reports, it now reads my abc's, but unless you tell someone about the problems, it's going to go on having bugs. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The symbol and abc2midi
Frank == Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Frank But there's a problem with abc2midi's peculiar way of interpreting Frank -dotted notation. Frank I think somebody mentioned a way around this some time Frank ago. Does anybody remember how it was done? I've been just inserting: %%MIDI ratio 3 1 into all my files. Someone else figured out the patch to the source so that it could be recompiled to make this unnecessary, but since I provide source on the web, I prefer to make the change in my sources instead of in the code that I run. -- Laura (mailto:lconrad;laymusic.org , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] RE: Explicit key signatures
Bruce == Bruce Olson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bruce I've looked at ABCs of some tunes among the broadside Bruce ballad ones on my website. They sure liked accidentals in Bruce the 17th century. That's because they weren't really thinking in key signatures the way we are. At the beginning of the century, they were still thinking of adding a flat as transposing the mode up a fourth, so adding two flats was two transpositions and adding three was too hard for anyone to do. So even if they were writing a piece that we would put in a key signature with lots of flats, they just used the accidentals. I'm not sure exactly when they started using sharp key signatures, but it was sometime in the 17th century; 16th century music doesn't use them at all. Of course, they did write some pretty chromatic music that would need accidentals no matter what key signature they used, too. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Skink sound (was Re: [abcusers] re : Abacus 1.0.0 launch)
Eric == Forgeot Eric [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Eric I think Skink can be a good program to quick glance throughout Eric some tunes (to find a nice one to play/study for example), so sad Eric it still has problem with the sound, Have you tried the latest version (that just came out last week)? I still have problems playing in Linux, but I didn't hit any problems on Windows in the small amount of testing I did there. I know you can't specify the instrument yet. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC software in reference libraries
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wil I was thinking of anything else that might be on the public-access terminal... Wil wil I agree that a crippleware version of Skink might be a good display (and play) only ABC program. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ANNOUNCE: version 1.0b2 of Five Line Skink
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wil Version 1.0b2 July 19 2002 Wil New Features and Bugfixes Wil - continuous display while entering tunes This makes it a really exciting addition to the ABC armory. It's the first thing I've tried that makes editing the underlay for melismatic music easy. It's also nice to have something that works both on the desktop (linux) and the laptop (windows). -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC software in reference libraries
Wil == Wil Macaulay [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Wil I'd be happy to let Skink be used for that purpose - it will directly open Wil a URL (use the Fetch menu selection from the File menu). It is, however, Wil a reasonably fully-featured text editor, so would it be necessary or Wil desirable to disable some of that functionality? Nobody's going to clobber the ABC that's on the CD. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC on a PDA
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte http://www.biff.org.uk/dave/abc.html I've never managed to find a real ABC file that that one can parse. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC on a PDA
Frank == Frank Nordberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte By now I'm almost error free when typing notes, so I don't Atte need any of the two available palm abcs. Which is the other one? Atte This works quite well, although I don't do symphonies that Atte way... I'm not doing Dowland text underlay that way either. (Four parts with similar but rarely identical words.) Frank That's defeatism! I thought it was use of appropriate tools. I have enough trouble getting the dowland words and text in sync in the parts where Dowland didn't underlay them even when I have a good editor and the software to display the result. Maybe if Will gets Skink to work on PalmOS... Frank Of course, an important point is that unlike the Palm, Frank Psion has a proper (although miniaturized) QWERTY Frank keyboard. The Stowaway is a surprisingly good keyboard now that I'm used to it. And it's nice to not have to carry the extra size and weight when you don't need the keyboard. Frank It also comes with a fairly decent word processor, so once Frank you've gotten used to the mini-keyboard, the Psion isn't Frank that much different from a desktop computer when it comes Frank to typing text files. I think WordSmith isn't a bad word processor, but it isn't enough like Emacs for me to be comfortable with it on a few days' acquaintance. I did sort of get used to doing cut/copy and paste operations, but not having an end/beginning of line from the keyboard is still bothering me. I gave PalmABC another try, and found that I could in fact proofread if I slowed the tune down enough and held the machine up to my ear (which you can't do with the keyboard attached). But I have now abandoned it again, because it crashed the machine and completely lost a the last tune I tried to proofread. I assume there was some kind of invalid ABC in my entry, but that's no excuse for losing the whole thing. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC on a PDA
Guido == Guido Gonzato [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Guido I've transcribed some short tunes with my Palm. I'm using PalmABC without an Guido external keyboard, and IMHO it's simply a pain. It's *very* slow, compared Guido to a real keyboard. I have tried to come up with some ideas, but unless Guido someone writes a dedicated editor for PDAs I don't think there are Guido alternatives. With the keyboard, it isn't too bad. I was going a lot slower than I do on my regular system, but that was a combination of the heat making everything slower and the keyboard having a different enough feel that I was typing a lot of double characters, and not knowing the editor. I did both entering as text in wordsmith, and entering in PalmABC. I'm not sure having the playback in PalmABC is worth it in my circumstances; the playback is very soft, and there seems to be a problem with getting the whole (short) tune played. The fonts are more readable, and there are probably more editing options (which I haven't learned yet) in wordsmith. In any case, there isn't a problem getting the abc back to the system in linux. I do my regular backup. Then, for the wordsmith doc, I run text2pdbdoc -d. The PalmABC database isn't a doc file, but I found that running strings on it produces the ABC with very little extraneous stuff. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] unsubscribe
Dave == Dave Holland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Dave This illustrates the point that putting all your list-maintainers in one Dave basket is a bad idea. How about sharing the role, or having a deputy Dave list-maintainer? Or putting the list on some software that does the routine maintenance automatically? We can put it on sourceforge any time. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ABC on a PDA
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte What I do with my palm and abc is just type ahead in a memo, no headers or Atte fancy stuff, just notes. Then I import (copy/paste) from j-pilot to emacs Atte in my default-header'ed document. By now I'm almost error free when typing Atte notes, so I don't need any of the two available palm abcs. This works Atte quite well, although I don't do symphonies that way... I'm not doing Dowland text underlay that way either. (Four parts with similar but rarely identical words.) But yes, I'm leaving a lot of the header typing to the default files in my real text editor. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Intergalactic naming conventions.
laurie == laurie griffiths Laurie writes: laurie I'd better wait and see what Jack and Phil say - but there seem to me to be laurie many Scotsmen that consider their variant of English a separate language laurie (some of Burns poetry can be pretty impenetrable to us English). Certainly it's farther from English English than American English is. But we do have our own army. But I think there's another factor, which is whether a language is the lingua franca. When French was, all kinds of incomprehensible variants like Haitian Creole went on calling themselves French. Now that English is, it's tempting to say that what you speak is the English that will get you jobs, even when it's pretty different. The same thing probably happened when Latin was metamorphosing into what are now the Romance Languages. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] ABC on a PDA
We're having a heat wave here in New England, and I'm toying with the idea of taking a facsimile and my Visor and the Stowaway Keyboard to an air conditioned place this afternoon and hanging out and transcribing music. Has anyone done this, and do they have any tips for getting used to typing ABC on that keyboard? I did a test file this morning, and I believe I can eventually get used to the split keyboard, but the caps lock shifting the numbers, and the distance some of the symbols ABC uses are from the home typing position seem pretty wierd. I was assuming I would just do the proofreading when I get back to the desktop, but if anyone has a good setup for entering and also checking the ABC, I'd be happy to hear about it. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] mode and transposition
Jack == Jack Campin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Currently, the abc2midi transposer only understands the key signature. So if I have a piece in D dorian, and I transpose it up 3 half notes, the transposed output is in Ab. It should be in F dorian. This is an inevitable consequence of using tonic/mode in the K: command. Jack It's not inevitable because BarFly gets it right (and always has done Jack from the earliest version I used). Mode is preserved under transposition. Jack It's a source-to-source transformation so it's hardly rocket science to Jack preserve it. Jack I don't quite see how this matters to abc2midi. MIDI doesn't have any Jack concept of mode, does it? I should have said abc2abc, which comes in the same package as abc2midi, and is what I used to use for transposition. I now use the lilypond \transpose function. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] iabc, and features expected in softwares in general
laurie == laurie griffiths Laurie writes: laurie Why does transposition need to understand the mode? Currently, the abc2midi transposer only understands the key signature. So if I have a piece in D dorian, and I transpose it up 3 half notes, the transposed output is in Ab. It should be in F dorian. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Antialiasing
Rick == Rick Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Rick For Linux, the latest Netscape I could get (the last time I Rick checked) was 4.51 or something like that, and I don't think Rick it does PNG yet. I think it does; I think all Netscape 4.x does png. I'm running 4.73, and it certainly does. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Embro, Embro CD-ROM
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (ABC, GIF, and QuickTime formats) Atte Wouldn't pdf be a nice format? IMO better than gif. You could offer both. Given he's also providing the ABC, you can produce any format you like. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] re : page layout in abcm2ps
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phil Most users will know what size of paper they print on (A4 or US Letter Phil in the vast majority of cases). They can be asked to specify their Phil margin sizes (or you could just assume one inch all round, which is Phil big enough to get you inside the printable area of most printers). Yes, but I think this thread started because someone was trying to print the maximum area possible, presumably to get the maximum amount of music possible on a page. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] resons for using abc
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phil The only faster way to get music into a computer is to play it on Phil a midi keyboard, and even then you are usually going to have to Phil do a lot of post entry editing. The people I know who claim to be really fast in Finale use the right hand on the MIDI keyboard and the left hand on the numeric keypad to enter note lengths. I used to have a setup a little like this when I was using Cakewalk, and I can easily imagine it would have advantages over what I currently do in ABC. Most obviously that you don't have to do anything different with your fingers to get into a different octave. In ABC, I think I'm faster when I'm typing in the octave that doesn't use the capital letters, and I'm certainly faster when I don't have to enter the commas or the apostrophes. So is anyone working on an ABC application that allows this? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] re re : slurs and ties
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John (Hey. Laura; does LilyPond distinguish all these? Just curious.) Yes: Tie: a ~ a slur: a () a phrasing slur: a \(\) a The documentation says: Typographically, the phrasing slur behaves almost exactly like a normal slur. The grob associated with it is PhrasingSlur , in Voice context. So the main difference between a slur and a phrasing slur is that there is a different grob, so that you can make all phrasing slurs dotted or invisible while leaving regular slurs alone, or vice versa. And: A tie connects two adjacent note heads of the same pitch. When used with chords, it connects all the note heads whose pitches match. Ties are indicated using the tilde symbol `~'. If you try to tie together chords which have no common pitches then no ties will be created. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The F F (and F F2) problems
James == James Allwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: James The inconsistency is deliberate. The point is that when you play a James hornpipe or anything else with dotted rhythm (or swing, or whatever James you want to call it), keeping a 3:1 ratio is rather harder than James keeping a 2:1 ratio and doesn't really add much musically apart from James a certain pedantic pleasure in knowing that you are playing exactly James what your notation says. This is why abc2midi makes the assumption James that ab is meant to be played as a 2:1 ratio. I think this is in James accordance with the original spirit of '' even if this is not spelt James out in the standard. Not only is it not spelt out in the standard, something completely different from this *is* spelt out in the (draft) standard. Which you haven't ever proposed changing. James The effect of R:Hornpipe in abc2midi is to introduce '' between 1/8 James notes so that a piece written as a reel will come out sounding like James a hornpipe. Nobody's complaining about a player program changing the way the music is played because of an explicit R: statement. (As long as this is documented.) James Because there is this aethetically displeasing discrepancy between James notation and performance, I have taken the view that '' is a James function to be used only in a very specific setting and trying to James generalize it for other uses is courting trouble. Again, the draft standard, and all of the experienced ABC writers I know, disagree. '' is a very useful way to make the ABC more readable, as long as it produces the intended effect. I agree that in many contexts the literal meaning specified by the standard, and expected by most users, is aesthetically displeasing, and I support the %%MIDI ratio command for changing it, but the default value should be the one specified by the standard. For those who haven't looked at it lately, the draft standard says: Broken rhythms == A common occurrence in traditional music is the use of a dotted or broken rhythm. For example, hornpipes, strathspeys and certain morris jigs all have dotted eighth notes followed by sixteenth notes as well as vice-versa in the case of strathspeys. To support this abc notation uses a to mean `the previous note is dotted, the next note halved' and to mean `the previous note is halved, the next dotted'. Thus the following lines all mean the same thing (the third version is recommended): L:1/16 a3b cd3 a2b2c2d2 L:1/8 a3/2b/2 c/2d3/2 abcd L:1/8 ab cd abcd -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte On Sat, 25 May 2002, Laurie (ukonline) wrote: Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wroteI don't care how my abc playes, and looking back on the descussion about ^f-|f a couple of months ago obviously abc2midi is only to be considered a toy, so I guess the rest of the comunity feels the same as me... polite cough abc2midi is not the only application that makes sound from ABC files*!* Atte True! But as far as I know the only other app on linux is playabc, and Atte that should be pretty much outdated... abc2ly enables you to get both printed and played music from abc. I haven't fixed the ^F-|F problem yet, although it's on my list, but it certainly doesn't have the F F problem. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Percussion notation...
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte I even ran lily (prior to knowing about your stuff) but the Atte wildly hacking of Han-Wen, and the resulting unstability of Atte the language made me put that on hold. I understand the feeling. I have been sticking with the stable release, so my work isn't exposed to that, but I should probably start using the development release, which they're making noises about turning into the (next) stable release soon. Atte How is the development now? Still crazy? The last I checked the development version, it was pretty good, but still missing a feature from the stable version that I like having. I think there's now a larger development community than there used to be, and also a larger user community, so things are on the whole a little saner. Atte When I get the time some time later this summer I'll make Atte sure to check out abc2ly :-) Let me know what you think. I feel like it's pretty much a personal computer program at the moment; I don't know of anyone else that's using it beside me, but I really do find it pretty useful. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] The F F (and F F2) problems
Phil == Phil Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phil Laura wrote: abc2ly enables you to get both printed and played music from abc. I haven't fixed the ^F-|F problem yet, although it's on my list, but it certainly doesn't have the F F problem. Phil What's the F F problem? Is that due to abc2midi misinterpreting Phil R:Hornpipe to mean some other split of time between the two Phil notes? Actually, abc2midi formerly assumed R:Hornpipe whenever you used F F. And then assumed a different split of time, which was appropriate for the way someone somewhere plays hornpipes. And when the inconsistency between abc2midi and the standard was pointed out, the author of abc2midi decided that consistency was more important than correctness, so he provided a workaround, rather than a fix. Phil At the moment I advise users to avoid using broken rhythms between Phil unequal notes on the grounds that the result is unpredictable - if Phil in doubt write it out in full. That's my solution, too. The standard doesn't address this at all. I think if someone were really working on a standard, it would make sense to either prohibit it or define it. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] No more spam
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John Can we get a list of sites where music-related lists might be happier John than at yahoo? I have a mailman mailing list server running on my home computer that's been working well for the lists of several organizations I belong to. It would be the wrong place for high-volume, mega-subscriber lists, but if you don't mind it being down for a few hours once in a while, and don't a have more than a couple of hundred subscribers, it's a good system. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] No more spam
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John Can we get a list of sites where music-related lists might be happier John than at yahoo? And I should also mention that we can have as many mailing lists as we want at the Sourceforge site, as long as they're vaguely related to a sourceforge project. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Extended Repeats
Ewan == Ewan A Macpherson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Ewan I guess I don't understand why there's a problem with endings of Ewan different lengths. Why do you need to mark the end of [2 here? Once Ewan past the :|, the player will just keep on going regardless, no? But a typesetting program might want to know where to stop drawing the bar that goes over the 2. This is a problem for abc2ly, where lilypond expects the alternatives to go between curly braces, and ABC doesn't specify where the end curly brace should go. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] jazz-songbook in abcformat
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John The don't tell anybody is accurate. Your clique will want to keep John its URLs a secret. This is mostly to keep the search sites from John finding your stuff and advertising it to the world. There's something else you want to do for that, and that's to tell the robots not to index it if they do stumble on it. You do this by putting in the header a tag that says: META NAME=robots CONTENT=index,nofollow (or noindex, nofollow). I assume this doesn't protect against spam harvesters, but does result in your pages not being indexed by google. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] from ABC to image
Alberto == Alberto Manuel Brandão Simões [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Alberto Is there any tool to convert abc document into an image? I was using Alberto abcm2ps, but when music is too big, it generates two images. I struggled with this when I was doing the Morley canzonets for two voices. I ended up doing the page breaking by hand. Currently I use abc2ly and let TeX do the page breaking. If what you really want is one image larger than your pagesize, I think you can use %% commands to tell abcm2ps that you have a very long page. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Wanted: a good strathspey for fiddle in Bb
Laurie == laurie griffiths Laurie writes: Laurie I need a good strathspey to play on the fiddle in the key of B flat major. Laurie Any suggestions? Transpose whatever strathspey you like into the key of Bb? -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Palm Pilot advice please
Steve == Steve Mansfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Steve Anyone got any suggestions as to either (a) where my enquirer might Steve find the pipe symbol or (b) how else they might get round this? If I did have to type ABC without a |, I would use some other character that doesn't get used in my ABC, and then use an editor to change that character into |. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: Folkband
Laurie == Laurie Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laurie Also I was young and pitifully innocent and missed almost Laurie all of the dirty jokes. That was my problem; we did read 12th night, but I missed the dirty jokes. As well as all the stuff about dancing. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Playing through sound card
Laurie == Laurie Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laurie Muse is only £20 and does it in one, but are there not free ones? abc2midi in combination with a MIDI player. I'm pretty sure there's some kind of MIDI player that comes with Windows; I use the version of Cakewalk that came with my soundcard. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ties and accidentals
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John It's really the ABC representation that's misleading, implying that John ties and slurs are different things. It would be better for ABC to John officially go along with the usual musical convention, and just say John that the tie notation is shorthand for a two-note slur, and for John identical notes, causes them to merge into a single long note. If this were true, the usual notation for an F# tied across a bar would have a sharp on the second F. And in the music I play, it doesn't. I agree that most musicians are hazy on the distinction, but I think most music printers are aware of it. And musicians are to the extent that they don't play the second F tied. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] ties and midi
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte If I have Atte CDE^F- | F Atte that is perfectly allowed in music notation, and abcm2ps also findes it no Atte problem at all (which it isn't), but abc2midi gives me this in the Atte midifile: Atte CDE^F | F Atte so in order to get what I want I need to write Atte CDE^F- | ^F Atte 1) are there other packages available (linux) that will convert my abc Atte into midifile in a correct way? Lilypond doesn't have the problem, but it's because entering both F's sharp is correct in lilypond. Like MIDI, lilypond assumes the notes the user enters are the actual pitches, and whether they should have accidentals on the printed version is the program's problem. There are several options for influencing Lily's decision. Atte 3) would you, James Allwright, consider to correct the behaviour of Atte abc2midi? I agree that in ABC, where the assumption is that what the user enters is what a printing program should print, it's a bug. This is a case which does demand some special code. Alternatively, the standard could address the problem in such a way as to cause the bug to be in abc2ps and friends for printing the second sharp in the version with both F's sharped. In its current state, abc2ly incorrectly does not print the tie between the ^F and the F in your first version (on the grounds that they aren't the same note; it would print a slur, if that were what you'd entered, but in that case, the second F would print with a sharp), and prints the version with both F's sharped correctly. I consider the missing tie a bug, (that is, the correct translation of the second F in your first version is to fis', and not to f') and will look into fixing it. There is a question whether it makes sense to change abc2ly to remove the inconsistency between the behavior of abc2ps and the lilypond output of abc2ly, where the version with both F's sharped prints correctly in lilypond and incorrectly in abc2ps. I would say it doesn't. That is, according to the current standard, the correct translation of the second ^F into lilypond is fis', not f'. If we changed the standard as I suggested above, this would no longer be true. However, that suggestion was a straw man, not something I'm actually advocating. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] splitting/merging of voices
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The combining is pretty easy; I have a script that does it for specific file names, but it could be generalized fairly easily. Atte I would love to see your script (bash?), can I convince you Atte to send it to me? Yes. Looking at it, I see that it isn't completely automatic for any ABC; it depends on the headers that are general to the score being in a file called head.abc. Which I do for the way I write -- I typically write the header file, put the words in a text file, and then for each voice insert the header file and the text file and then start filling in notes. #!/bin/bash -x if [ -s score.m4 ] then m4 score.m4 score.abc exit fi cat head.abc VOICE=1 if [ -f cantus.abc ] then echo V:$VOICE name=\Cantus\ cat cantus.abc | grep -v ^[XVHQCONSTP\%]: VOICE=$[$VOICE + 1] fi if [ -f altus.abc ] then echo V:$VOICE name=\Altus\ cat altus.abc | grep -v ^[XVCOQNPSHT]: | tr -s '\n' VOICE=$[$VOICE + 1] fi if [ -f tenor.abc ] then echo V:$VOICE name=\Tenor\ cat tenor.abc | grep -v ^[XVCONPQSHT]: | tr -s '\n' VOICE=$[$VOICE + 1] fi if [ -f quintus.abc ] then echo V:$VOICE name=\Quintus\ cat quintus.abc | grep -v ^[XVCOQMNPSHT]: | tr -s '\n' VOICE=$[$VOICE + 1] fi if [ -f bassus.abc ] then echo V:$VOICE name=\Bassus\ cat bassus.abc | grep -v ^[XVCOMNPQSHT]: | tr -s '\n' fi Here's an example of the header, txt, and abc files I write that I use this on: wood.gz Description: Binary data Here are a couple of scripts that are wrappers around abcselect that I find useful: splitabc.sh Description: Bourne shell script splitvoices.sh Description: Bourne shell script -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139
Re: [abcusers] splitting/merging of voices
Atte == Atte Andre Jensen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Atte I've started using abc (actually abcm2ps) for writing charts Atte for a big band. So now I need some tools to manipulate the Atte voices individually, for instance spit a file up in the Atte individual voices, and then some way of combining the Atte separate voices back into one file would be nice. Does such Atte a tool exist (I'm in linux), or do I have to invent the Atte wheel? Yes, use abcselect by Christoph Dalitz for the splitting. It's a perl program, so it should run on any system that has perl installed. The combining is pretty easy; I have a script that does it for specific file names, but it could be generalized fairly easily. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] attachements to the lists.
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John Can this mailserver do the trick of just stripping out attachments? I think it would be friendlier to just put a size limit on postings. It really makes sense to use attachments for something like an ABC file that the reader may want to save separately. But of course large attachments are discourteous. The Mailman lists I maintain give you a default limit of 40Kb, which seems to be reasonable -- it allows normal size text files and small graphics but not giant postscript, pdf or graphics files. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Initial repeats
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John | On Tue 18 Dec 2001 at 01:00PM +, Erik Ronstr=F6m wrote: John | Consider standard music notation: John | My theory is that once upon a time, the repeat sign consisted of two John | dots (:), and always coincided with a bar line.=20 John Anyone have any actualy history of this? The earliest repeats I have facsimiles of are in John Dowland, in the early 17th century. Morley, printing about 10 years earlier, writes out all repeats. Most of the pieces I know from much earlier than that don't have explicitly notated repeated sections, although of course performers may well have decided to repeat things. When there is a begin and end repeat together, Dowland draws it as a double bar line with some number of dots between 2 and 6 on each side of the double bar. This is true both in parts which have other bar lines and in parts which are otherwise unbarred. The ones with barlines use the same sign at the end of the piece, that is with dots on both sides of the double bar. They do not put a repeat sign at the beginning. The parts that are written without barlines don't bother with either the end repeat at the end of the piece or the begin repeat at the beginning of the piece. Where there is a begin repeat in the middle of the piece, for instance with an ABB structure, the end repeat is as described above, but often the beginning of the repeat is indicated by a squiggly cross above or below the note to be repeated to, and not by anything that looks to us like a repeat sign at all. This is not necessarily associated with a barline at all. When there is alternate music for the first time through, there's a double bar separating that from the note that ends the piece on the second time through. There doesn't seem to be a formal idea of a set of notes that might constitute a second ending, although a modern transcription often ends up writing it that way. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Re: Initial repeats
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John My conclusion is that there's no standard for this among printers, at John least in the British Isles and North America. The best advice for John anyone implementing an ABC player would be to expect all of these, John regardless of what any ABC standard might say. But to implement an option that strictly enforces whatever the standard might say. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on December 16, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Multiple Endings
John == John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: John BTW, where does the 1.6 standard explicitly forbid this final :|? I John don't seem to see anything at all on the topic, only the statement John that :| marks the end of a repeated section. This would imply that John the above notation is legal, since that bar line *is* the end of a John repeated section. No, you never repeat the alternates. (Except for your :|1,3 example.) John (Some people have ranted about the practice of omitting |: initially, John but this is a losing battle. You're fighting too much tradition in John this case.) But it might not be a bad idea for printing programs to provide an option to not print an initial |:. This would allow ABC coders to write balanced repeat indicators, but have them print the way most printed music does it. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on December 16, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Open Source Project?
Laurie == Laurie Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laurie The question is, on what terms should the source be opened? Here is what I Laurie have in mind. You don't say anything about the source being available to anyone. This is what makes an open source project open source. If you don't do this, and make the source available only to developers who sign some kind of agreement, it may be an interesting volunteer developer opportunity, but I don't think you can call it open source by any of the definitions I know anything about. I agree that this list is the wrong place to discuss the philosophy of open source development. But the word does get used here often enough that I think making sure we all mean something vaguely similar by it is probably constructive. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on December 16, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] something really simple
James == James Allwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [about global header fields] James This is not a widely implemented feature of the abc standard and I James would personally like it to become deprecated. My reasoning is that James if you have global fields, you can't treat a single abc tune as James something that can be edited out of its source file (which you might James do if you wanted to print off just one tune from a collection). Unless you use a utility to edit the file. abcselect seems to preserve global headers when you select a tune. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on December 16, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
