Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
On Wed, 2 Jul 2003 17:58:05 +0100, Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] I thought %%MIDI: was a very nice starting point. Maybe it's too late for an equivalent %%TYPESETTING: ? abcm2ps accepts '%%fmt', as suggested by someone a long time ago. -- Ken ar c'hentañ | ** Breizh ha Linux atav! ** | http://moinejf.free.fr/ Pépé Jef| mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
David Webber wrote: appname:info; would allow people to go beyond the standard in a way in which other apps could ignore. (Or pick up.) The rule would simply have to be that if such elements are omitted, the remaining music has to obey the standard and make sense. For this kind of in-line stuff, maybe you could use the established !! notation: !appname:info! -- Bert Van Vreckem http://flanders.blackmill.net/ Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. -- Dave Barry To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], David Webber [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Thinking about abc and applications: 1. Some apps are abc-oriented and deal only with that format. 2. Others like mine will consider it an extra. For the writers of type 1 apps, having a committee defining the standard may be frustrating - even if they're on the committee :-) They'll need new stuff NOW and want to build it in. This is how the standard gets exceeded; broken; and only some time later extended. Could I suggest to the great and the good who are on this committee that we need a standard for breaking the standard. It already exists, in that anything between % and the end of the line can contain application specific information without affecting other applications. For example I could put in something like %%mozart: A4 23pt The %%mozart: would indicate that this is information for mozart only and the following stuff would be interpreted by MOZART to say this is for an A4 page with a five line stave 23 points high. I'd support that from Music Publisher viewpoint. However you might want to choose a string longer than mozart to avoid getting problems with the quite reasonable and legal comment %%mozart: don't you love his music! :-) Maybe we need a register of accepted application names/codes. In particular it could be part of the standard that %%appname: . can define application-specific information. But it would also be nice to have something similar in-line in the music as well. Let me give an example which I *think* is currently outside the scope of abc (i need to do more reading to be sure!). MOZART will play back jazz pieces with different swing styles labelled 0-16 with zero (the default) being straight. I could tell it an abc file was swung with %%mozart: swing=10 at the top.However swung pieces often have some notes played deliberately straight, and so it would be nice to have something like M:C L:1/2 . | ABcB mozart:sraight; ABcB mozart:swing; | Using one of the remaining characters (I've forgotten if is one of them - I pinched it from HTML g) so that anything between that and a semicolon (say) is application specific information in the format appname:info; would allow people to go beyond the standard in a way in which other apps could ignore. (Or pick up.) The rule would simply have to be that if such elements are omitted, the remaining music has to obey the standard and make sense. Forgive me if this has already been done: I'm just thinking out loud, inspired by so many good folk here :-) It would have its uses for me too (eg different note head shapes) but you have to consider what other (old) software is going to make of it which has not yet been told that ...; is a feature. I would suggest something along the !...! lines - !swing 4! or !swing 0! because presumably unrecognised !...! features are ignored by alien software. Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, David Webber wrote: The %%mozart: would indicate that this is information for mozart only and the following stuff would be interpreted by MOZART to say this is for an A4 page with a five line stave 23 points high. That's not a bad idea, but an ever better idea is to standardize common stylesheet elements according to the model of CSS. Stylesheet elements that begin with a certain prefix, like app-mozart, could be understood to be private extentions of a software package. %%mozart: swing=10 This would be a good example of a private stylesheet extention, e.g: %%app-mozart-swing: 10 Still, one must understand that the stylesheet standard will be a meta standard, and not part of the ABC language itself. . | ABcB mozart:sraight; ABcB mozart:swing; | The ampersand () is already used to indicate voice splitting. You could use the !...! notation for this purpose. E.g: !mozart:straight! Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* Chazzanut Online: http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
Bernard == Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bernard Maybe we need a register of accepted application names/codes. There is one on the sourceforge ABC site. It seems to be down at the moment, so I can't post an exact URL. I want to echo some comments made by other members of the previously formed standards committee -- I hope this new effort succeeds better than ours did. I do hope that the new effort won't completely ignore the work from the old effort. If you need any information about or pointers to some of that work, I'm one of the people to ask. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
Laura == Laura Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Laura There is one on the sourceforge ABC site. It seems to be Laura down at the moment, so I can't post an exact URL. It's back up: http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/abc/src/standard/pp_directives.txt?rev=HEADcontent-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
From: Bert Van Vreckem [EMAIL PROTECTED] For this kind of in-line stuff, maybe you could use the established !! notation: !appname:info! Thanks to everyone who pointed this out. I must admit to having been under the impression that the !..! elements were supposed to be more or less standard for all apps. The 1.7.6 spec talks of the currently defined symbols and the list may grow - which I interpreted as meaning it wasn't a free for all g. So maybe a standard is needed within this, such as [EMAIL PROTECTED]:info! with the @ (or whatever) indicating that what follows is an application name and application-specific data. Maybe this symbol (I had in mind @pplication) is also a bad choice as outlook-express turns it blue and underlines it. :-( Dave David Webber Author of MOZART the music processor for Windows - http://www.mozart.co.uk Member of the North Cheshire Concert Band http://www.northcheshire.org.uk To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
On Wed, Jul 02, 2003 at 04:34:24PM +0200, Bert Van Vreckem wrote: David Webber wrote: appname:info; would allow people to go beyond the standard in a way in which other apps could ignore. (Or pick up.) The rule would simply have to be that if such elements are omitted, the remaining music has to obey the standard and make sense. For this kind of in-line stuff, maybe you could use the established !! notation: !appname:info! Or, would an inline header [%%appname:info] do it ? (this may be a dumb comment. I haven't been following developments closely, for a while. Must catch up, one day). I agree that the double-percent usage is a good standard way of exceeding the standard; one minor niggle - perhaps it could better be described as %%namespace:info rather than appname ? Because it's more general - the %% notation can be used for any amount of non-standard headers, where the first element doesn't necessarily define an application. If I want my own headers to write things where none of the normal ones are appropriate, for example, I mostly use %%RRsomethingorother:value to try and dodge conflicts with anybody else's usage. So namespace seems a better description. Incidentally, I've just realised that my messages to this list haven't been making it through for the last few months, following major reorganisations here. I _hope_ this is now fixed. We shall see ... -- Richard Robinson The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes - S. Lem To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
| David Webber wrote: | appname:info; | | would allow people to go beyond the standard in a way in which other | apps could ignore. (Or pick up.) The rule would simply have to be | that if such elements are omitted, the remaining music has to obey | the standard and make sense. | | For this kind of in-line stuff, maybe you could use the established !! | notation: !appname:info! Interesting idea, and not much of a stretch. An alternative, of course, is that we also have the [...:...] notation for inserting header lines inside the abc music section. This is similar to chord notation, of course, but distinguished by the colon after an initial identifier. So in addition to things like [K:Gm] and [K:clef=alto], we could say [mozart:something]. Or maybe it should be [%%mozart:something]. I think I've already seen this as a way of making inline MIDI changes. It's a lot more elgant that the kludgy use of \ to put the command at the start of a new line. I'm not sure which I'd prefer. In any case, we'd want to emphasize that programs should ignore such things if they don't recognize the word before the colon. To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, Laura Conrad wrote: I do hope that the new effort won't completely ignore the work from the old effort. So where can we read the draft standard that you prepared? Irwin To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
On Wed, 2 Jul 2003, John Chambers wrote: An alternative, of course, is that we also have the [...:...] notation. So in addition to things like [K:Gm] and [K:clef=alto], we could say [mozart:something]. I prefer to keep this [...] notation for inline header fields, and to use !...! for inline symbols or markers. Or maybe it should be [%%mozart:something]. This is certainly not a good idea. Everything after the first %-sign until the end-of-line will probably be ignored by a lot of ABC implementations. It's a lot more elgant that the kludgy use of \ to put the command at the start of a new line. I think that inline headers without surrounding brackets should be deprecated in the new standard. That is: current software shouldn't generate this clumsy notation anymore. When imported, it should be automatically converted to the new [H:...] notation. Groeten, Irwin Oppenheim [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~~~* Chazzanut Online: http://www.joods.nl/~chazzanut/ To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
From: Richard Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or, would an inline header [%%appname:info] do it ? Again I thought that [ ] was for in-lining established commands lime M: and K. So either [] or !! would do as long as there were a legal way to define app-specific (or user-specific) info within them. %%namespace:info Probably better. In which case standard commands woud be part of the abc default namespace. Dave David Webber Author of MOZART the music processor for Windows - http://www.mozart.co.uk Member of the North Cheshire Concert Band http://www.northcheshire.org.uk To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] abc standard and application-dependence
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Laura Conrad [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes Bernard == Bernard Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Bernard Maybe we need a register of accepted application names/codes. There is one on the sourceforge ABC site. It seems to be down at the moment, so I can't post an exact URL. So how do we apply? Especially since the software is not complete yet... quite... Bernard Hill Braeburn Software Author of Music Publisher system Music Software written by musicians for musicians http://www.braeburn.co.uk Selkirk, Scotland To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
