Re : [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
http://www.jfsowa.com/pubs/arch.htm Architectures for Intelligent Systems good day - Message d'origine De : William Pearson [EMAIL PROTECTED] À : agi@v2.listbox.com Envoyé le : Lundi, 31 Mars 2008, 23h35mn 42s Objet : Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook On 26/03/2008, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics I've decided to go my own way and have started a new annotated text book, trying to link in all the topics I think relevant to my current state of work. http://www.agiri.org/wiki/AACA_Textbook I'll try putting in content in for each of those links. But coding for the architecture is probably more pointful at this point. Once I have it up and running on QEmu, I'll try and devote more time to education. Will Pearson --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com _ Envoyez avec Yahoo! Mail. Plus de moyens pour rester en contact. http://mail.yahoo.fr --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI textbook
Hi Ben Hereby my proposed additional topics / references for your wiki - aimed at the more computer scienty/mathematically challenged (like me): Sorry don't have the time to add directly to the wiki AGI ARCHITECTURES (EXPANDS on the COGNITIVE ARCHITECTURES section) Questions about any Would-Be AGI System. Ben Goertzel - May 20, 2002 Artificial General Intelligence: A Gentle Introduction - Pei Wang Architectures for intelligent systems by J. F. Sowa Cognitive Architectures: Research Issues and Challenges by Langley, Laird Rogers. Choosing and getting started with a cognitive architecture to test and use human-machine interfaces by Frank RITTER. MMI-Interaktiv, #7, Jun04 Artificial General Intelligence PowerPoint presentation by ?? Artificial General Intelligence - Goertzel, Ben; Pennachin, Cassio (Eds). Chapter by Peter Voss Four Contemporary AGI Designs: a Comparative Treatment Sep2006 Stan FRANKLIN, Ben GOERTZEL, Alexei SAMSONOVICH, Pei WANG Mixing Cognitive Science Concepts with Computer Science Algorithms and Data Structures: An Integrative Approach to Strong AI. Moshe Looks Ben Goertzel Computational ARchitectures for Intelligence and Motivation Darryl N. Davis The 17th IEEE International Symposium on Intelligent Control , ISIC’02, Canada, Oct 2002 Considerations Regarding Human-Level Artificial Intelligence - Nils J. Nilsson - Jan 2002 A Survey of Artificial Cognitive Systems: Implications for the Autonomous Development of Mental Capabilities in Computational Agents David Vernon. AGENTS Search and select depending on the nature of your AGI architecture. AUTONOMIC COMPUTING Any one of the IBM AC overview papers e.g. Practical Autonomic Computing: Roadmap to Self Managing Technology A White Paper Prepared for IBM January 2006 BOTS Read any document on AIML, check out on the Loebner prize and check the source code of at least one ChatterBot in your preferred programming langague. COGNITION List of cognitive biases - Wikipedia Contemporary Approaches to Symbol Grounding - Moshe Looks Interior Grounding, Reflection, and Self-Consciousness - Marvin Minsky Intl Conf on Brain Mind Society, Japan 2005. Solving the Symbol Grounding Problem: a Critical Review of Fifteen Years of Research by Mariarosaria Taddeo and Luciano Floridi French, R. M. (2002). The Computational Modeling of Analogy -Making. Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 6(5), 200-205. COMPLEXITY THEORY - any good overview COMPUTATIONAL INTELLIGENCE Feigenbaum - Grand Challenges for Computational Intelligence Some paper on AIXI Craenen Eiben - Computational Intelligence 2002 Moshe Looks - Learning with Semantic Spaces: From Parameter Tuning to Discovery One of Wang's papers on Cognitive Informatics e.g. Theoretical Framework of CI, CI Models of the Brain or similar INTRODUCTORY, POPULAR GENERAL BOOKS: # Eric Baum, What is Thought?, 2004 # Ben Goertzel, The Hidden Pattern: A Patternist Philosophy of Mind, 2006 # Ben Goertzel, Cassio Pennachin (Eds.), Artificial General Intelligence, 2007 # Jeff Hawkins, On Intelligence, 2004 # Steven Pinker, The Stuff of Thought, 2007; How the Mind Works; The language Instinct. # Storrs Hall, Beyond AI # Franklin, Artificial Minds # Sowa, Knowledge Representation # Douglas Hofstadter, Godel, Escher Bach # Ray Kurzweil, The Age of Spritiual Machines The Singularity Is Near # Wolfram, A new kind of science # Smith, On the origin of objects # Jeff Hawkins, on intelligence and at least two of the following 'cognitive science compilations' # Rosenthal (ed), The Nature of Mind # Bechtel Graham, a Companion to Cognitive Science # Posner (ed), Foundationsof Congitive Science # Wilson Kehl, THe MIT Encyclopedia of Cognitive Sciences Some other popular science titles that you might consider (some are quite dated): #Kevin Warwick, In the mind of the Machine #Robert Winston, the human mind #Philip Johnson-Laird - the computer and the mind #Gardenfors - conceptual spaces #Rita carter - mapping the mind #Rondey Brooks - Robot #and you should read at least one book by Roger Penrose (and/or perhaps Daniel Dennett.). Some advice on literature/articles NOT to read i.e. TIME-CONSUMING debates to avoid wasting your precious time on: ** PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ** If you're defining your own AGI project, you have to choose (ideally one) language. IMHO if you already have lots of experience and feel comfortable in a particular language and it *seems to you* that it is adequate, then don't waste time debating other languages - *all* languages have their advantages and limitations. However, if you have to choose a new language (or don't mind changing) then: if you need raw speed and current hardware is likely to be a bottleneck, then: = if your algorithms are fairly classic in nature, choose C#, C++ or similar - ideally a dialect that supports parallel hardware architectures = but if your algorithms are fairly esoteric and/or you have 'strange' data structures, looks at Lisp, SmallTalk or similar if you think
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI textbook
Finally be selective on whom you engage with on the AGI list ;-) This should have been first.:-) - Original Message - From: Jean-paul Van Belle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: agi@v2.listbox.com Sent: Monday, March 31, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI textbook Hi Ben Hereby my proposed additional topics / references for your wiki - aimed at the more computer scienty/mathematically challenged (like me): Sorry don't have the time to add directly to the wiki AGI ARCHITECTURES (EXPANDS on the COGNITIVE ARCHITECTURES section) Questions about any Would-Be AGI System. Ben Goertzel - May 20, 2002 Artificial General Intelligence: A Gentle Introduction - Pei Wang Architectures for intelligent systems by J. F. Sowa Cognitive Architectures: Research Issues and Challenges by Langley, Laird Rogers. Choosing and getting started with a cognitive architecture to test and use human-machine interfaces by Frank RITTER. MMI-Interaktiv, #7, Jun04 Artificial General Intelligence PowerPoint presentation by ?? Artificial General Intelligence - Goertzel, Ben; Pennachin, Cassio (Eds). Chapter by Peter Voss Four Contemporary AGI Designs: a Comparative Treatment Sep2006 Stan FRANKLIN, Ben GOERTZEL, Alexei SAMSONOVICH, Pei WANG Mixing Cognitive Science Concepts with Computer Science Algorithms and Data Structures: An Integrative Approach to Strong AI. Moshe Looks Ben Goertzel Computational ARchitectures for Intelligence and Motivation Darryl N. Davis The 17th IEEE International Symposium on Intelligent Control , ISIC’02, Canada, Oct 2002 Considerations Regarding Human-Level Artificial Intelligence - Nils J. Nilsson - Jan 2002 A Survey of Artificial Cognitive Systems: Implications for the Autonomous Development of Mental Capabilities in Computational Agents David Vernon. AGENTS Search and select depending on the nature of your AGI architecture. AUTONOMIC COMPUTING Any one of the IBM AC overview papers e.g. Practical Autonomic Computing: Roadmap to Self Managing Technology A White Paper Prepared for IBM January 2006 BOTS Read any document on AIML, check out on the Loebner prize and check the source code of at least one ChatterBot in your preferred programming langague. COGNITION List of cognitive biases - Wikipedia Contemporary Approaches to Symbol Grounding - Moshe Looks Interior Grounding, Reflection, and Self-Consciousness - Marvin Minsky Intl Conf on Brain Mind Society, Japan 2005. Solving the Symbol Grounding Problem: a Critical Review of Fifteen Years of Research by Mariarosaria Taddeo and Luciano Floridi French, R. M. (2002). The Computational Modeling of Analogy -Making. Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 6(5), 200-205. COMPLEXITY THEORY - any good overview COMPUTATIONAL INTELLIGENCE Feigenbaum - Grand Challenges for Computational Intelligence Some paper on AIXI Craenen Eiben - Computational Intelligence 2002 Moshe Looks - Learning with Semantic Spaces: From Parameter Tuning to Discovery One of Wang's papers on Cognitive Informatics e.g. Theoretical Framework of CI, CI Models of the Brain or similar INTRODUCTORY, POPULAR GENERAL BOOKS: # Eric Baum, What is Thought?, 2004 # Ben Goertzel, The Hidden Pattern: A Patternist Philosophy of Mind, 2006 # Ben Goertzel, Cassio Pennachin (Eds.), Artificial General Intelligence, 2007 # Jeff Hawkins, On Intelligence, 2004 # Steven Pinker, The Stuff of Thought, 2007; How the Mind Works; The language Instinct. # Storrs Hall, Beyond AI # Franklin, Artificial Minds # Sowa, Knowledge Representation # Douglas Hofstadter, Godel, Escher Bach # Ray Kurzweil, The Age of Spritiual Machines The Singularity Is Near # Wolfram, A new kind of science # Smith, On the origin of objects # Jeff Hawkins, on intelligence and at least two of the following 'cognitive science compilations' # Rosenthal (ed), The Nature of Mind # Bechtel Graham, a Companion to Cognitive Science # Posner (ed), Foundationsof Congitive Science # Wilson Kehl, THe MIT Encyclopedia of Cognitive Sciences Some other popular science titles that you might consider (some are quite dated): #Kevin Warwick, In the mind of the Machine #Robert Winston, the human mind #Philip Johnson-Laird - the computer and the mind #Gardenfors - conceptual spaces #Rita carter - mapping the mind #Rondey Brooks - Robot #and you should read at least one book by Roger Penrose (and/or perhaps Daniel Dennett.). Some advice on literature/articles NOT to read i.e. TIME-CONSUMING debates to avoid wasting your precious time on: ** PROGRAMMING LANGUAGES ** If you're defining your own AGI project, you have to choose (ideally one) language. IMHO if you already have lots of experience and feel comfortable in a particular language and it *seems to you* that it is adequate, then don't waste time debating other languages - *all* languages have their advantages and limitations. However, if you have to choose a new language (or don't mind changing) then: if you need raw speed and current hardware is likely to be a bottleneck
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On 26/03/2008, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics I've decided to go my own way and have started a new annotated text book, trying to link in all the topics I think relevant to my current state of work. http://www.agiri.org/wiki/AACA_Textbook I'll try putting in content in for each of those links. But coding for the architecture is probably more pointful at this point. Once I have it up and running on QEmu, I'll try and devote more time to education. Will Pearson --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Hmm.. well, but at least, using words related to robotics gives a flavour of embodiment :-). Anyhow, I still prefer sharing terminology with robotics, as opposed to narrow AI. Narrow AI and AGI are perhaps closer, so the risk of confusion is bigger. /R 2008/3/29, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 4. In fact. I would suggest that AGI researchers start to distinguish themselves from narrow AGI by replacing the over ambiguous concepts from AI, one by one. For example: knowledge representation = world model. learning = world model creation reasoning = world model simulation goal = life goal (to indicate that we have the ambition of building something really alive) If we say something like world model creation, it seems pretty obvious that we do not mean anything like just tweaking a few bits in some function. Yet, those terms are used for quite shallow things in many Good Old Fashioned robotics architectures ;-) ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Robert/Ben:. In fact. I would suggest that AGI researchers start to distinguish themselves from narrow AGI by replacing the over ambiguous concepts from AI, one by one. For example: knowledge representation = world model. learning = world model creation reasoning = world model simulation goal = life goal (to indicate that we have the ambition of building something really alive) If we say something like world model creation, it seems pretty obvious that we do not mean anything like just tweaking a few bits in some function. Yet, those terms are used for quite shallow things in many Good Old Fashioned robotics architectures ;-) IMO there is one key in fact crucial distinction between AI AGI - which hinges on adaptivity. An AI program has special(ised) adaptivity -can adapt its actions but only within a known domain An AGI has general adaptivity- can also adapt its actions to deal with unknown, unfamiliar domains. --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 8:58 AM, Mike Tintner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Robert/Ben:. In fact. I would suggest that AGI researchers start to distinguish themselves from narrow AGI by replacing the over ambiguous concepts from AI, one by one. For example: knowledge representation = world model. learning = world model creation reasoning = world model simulation goal = life goal (to indicate that we have the ambition of building something really alive) If we say something like world model creation, it seems pretty obvious that we do not mean anything like just tweaking a few bits in some function. Yet, those terms are used for quite shallow things in many Good Old Fashioned robotics architectures ;-) IMO there is one key in fact crucial distinction between AI AGI - which hinges on adaptivity. An AI program has special(ised) adaptivity -can adapt its actions but only within a known domain An AGI has general adaptivity- can also adapt its actions to deal with unknown, unfamiliar domains. --- The distinction in terms is not generally recognized. Most AI programs do not show a wide range of adaptivity of learning. However, most of us who are interested in the field believe that there will be more achievements in the future. The use of the term AGI in this group is meant to differentiate the general adaptivity that you mentioned that would be required for general artificial intelligence, but the term AI is an inclusive term that has different meanings but does definitely include the future of AI research and general AI. The way you expressed 'general adaptivity' is interesting. People only have a constrained ability to learn, just as computers do, but obviously they can learn in ways that computers cannot. But there is ample evidence that AI programming is improving. So the issue is not just general adaptivity but the range of adaptivity, or the ranges of different kinds of adaptivity. The reason I am making this point is because by exmaining the problem with a little more precision, or at least differentiation, some of the more obscure issues may eventually be revealed. Jim Bromer --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
A few things come to my mind: 1. To what extent is learning and reasoning a sub topic of cognitive architectures? Is learning and reasoning a plugin to a cognitive architecture, or is in fact the whole cognitive architecture about learning and reasoning. 2. I would like a special topic on AGI goal representation. More specifically, a topic that discusses how a goal specified by any human designer, can be related to the world model and actions that an AGI system creates? For example, how can the human specified goal, be related to a knowledge representation that is constantly developed by the AGI system? 3. Why do AI/AGI researchers always talk about *knowledge representation.*It gives such a strong bias towards static or useless knowledge bases. Why not talk more about *World modelling*. Because of the more active meaning of the word modelling as opposed to representation, it implies that things such as inference etc. need to be considered. Since the word modelling is also used to denote the process of creating a model, it also implies that we need mechanisms for learning. I really think we should consider if not knowledge representation is a concept straightly borrowed from dumb-narrow AI, or if it really is a key concept for AGI. Sure enough, there will always be knowledge representation, but the question is whether it is an important/relevant/sufficient/misleading concept for AGI. 4. In fact. I would suggest that AGI researchers start to distinguish themselves from narrow AGI by replacing the over ambiguous concepts from AI, one by one. For example: knowledge representation = world model. learning = world model creation reasoning = world model simulation goal = life goal (to indicate that we have the ambition of building something really alive) If we say something like world model creation, it seems pretty obvious that we do not mean anything like just tweaking a few bits in some function. 2. I am thinking of whether it would be a good idea with a topic like methods for quelling combinatorial explosions in AGI world model processes. That topic could outline basic principles like meta-adaptation and parallelisation of adaptation (meaning that the AGI system needs to separate objects in reality that can be studied separatley). Like someone mentioned, such principles might be overly simple to many already in the field, and thereby not worth mentioning, but if we aim at writing documents for beginners, we really need to get the basics right. Simple/basic principles are still interesting, as long as they are not narrow. Maybe Ben Goertzel could add some more difficoult material under such a topic also. Hope any of these ideas could could be helpful. Thanks. /R 2008/3/26, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED]: BTW I improved the hierarchical organization of the TOC a bit, to remove the impression that it's just a random grab-bag of topics... http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 9:29 PM, Robert Wensman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A few things come to my mind: 1. To what extent is learning and reasoning a sub topic of cognitive architectures? Is learning and reasoning a plugin to a cognitive architecture, or is in fact the whole cognitive architecture about learning and reasoning. If cognitive architectures department of AGI research is to be usefully delineated, then these are not its subtopics. But neither they are plug-ins. It is in this chapter I introduce you to the overall structure of the system. From other chapters you know that... 2. I would like a special topic on AGI goal representation. More specifically, a topic that discusses how a goal specified by any human designer, can be related to the world model and actions that an AGI system creates? For example, how can the human specified goal, be related to a knowledge representation that is constantly developed by the AGI system? Yes, more work needed on lifelong goal structures, Pollock's master plans, integration with motivational system (which in the primitive form is spreading activation). 3. Why do AI/AGI researchers always talk about knowledge representation. It gives such a strong bias towards static or useless knowledge bases. Why not talk more about World modelling. Because of the more active meaning of the word modelling as opposed to representation, it implies that things such as inference etc. need to be considered. Since the word modelling is also used to denote the process of creating a model, it also implies that we need mechanisms for learning. I really think we should consider if not knowledge representation is a concept straightly borrowed from dumb-narrow AI, or if it really is a key concept for AGI. Sure enough, there will always be knowledge representation, but the question is whether it is an important/relevant/sufficient/misleading concept for AGI. Agreed. I think that knowledge representation label should not be abandoned, but should be grown towards how the system accomodates the sophisticated semantics of natural language and/or its formative domain where formative domain can be social environment, programmistic environment etc. 4. In fact. I would suggest that AGI researchers start to distinguish themselves from narrow AGI by replacing the over ambiguous concepts from AI, one by one. For example: I neither agree nor disagree with your suggestion, I just thank for clarifying your ideas here considerably :-) --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Well ... I can take a shot at putting a diagram together. Making Mind Maps is one way I learn any kind of material I want. If the topics in the list(s) are descriptive enough, I can take a shot at putting such a diagram together. It'd be less work to correct it than to make one, right? Hey - whatever helps. For me, it's a win-win. It would help me, and it would help accomplish what you guys are trying to do. Let me know, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This kind of diagram would certainly be meaningful, but, it would be a lot of work to put together, even more so than a traditional TOC ... On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pei - What about having a tree like diagram that branches out into either: - the different paths / approaches to AGI (for instance: NARS, Novamente, and Richard's, etc.), with suggested readings at those leaves - area of study, with suggested readings at those leaves Or possibly, a Mind Map diagram that shows AGI in the middle, with the approaches stemming from it, and then either sub fields, or a reading list and / or collection of links (though the links may become outdated, dead). Point is, would a diagram help map the field - which caters to the differing approaches, and which helps those wanting to chart a course to their own learning/study ? Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives:
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Is there some kind of online software that lets a group of people update a Mind Map diagram collaboratively, in the manner of a Wiki page? This would seem critical if a Mind Map is to really be useful for the purpose you suggest... -- Ben On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 8:32 AM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well ... I can take a shot at putting a diagram together. Making Mind Maps is one way I learn any kind of material I want. If the topics in the list(s) are descriptive enough, I can take a shot at putting such a diagram together. It'd be less work to correct it than to make one, right? Hey - whatever helps. For me, it's a win-win. It would help me, and it would help accomplish what you guys are trying to do. Let me know, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:40 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This kind of diagram would certainly be meaningful, but, it would be a lot of work to put together, even more so than a traditional TOC ... On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pei - What about having a tree like diagram that branches out into either: - the different paths / approaches to AGI (for instance: NARS, Novamente, and Richard's, etc.), with suggested readings at those leaves - area of study, with suggested readings at those leaves Or possibly, a Mind Map diagram that shows AGI in the middle, with the approaches stemming from it, and then either sub fields, or a reading list and / or collection of links (though the links may become outdated, dead). Point is, would a diagram help map the field - which caters to the differing approaches, and which helps those wanting to chart a course to their own learning/study ? Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Hi Ben, I have a publisher who would love to publish the result of the wiki as a textbook if you are willing. Mark - Original Message - From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: agi@v2.listbox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Ben, Wikipedia has significant overlap with the topic list on the AGIRI Wiki. I propose for discussion the notion that the AGIRI Wiki be content-compatible with Wikipedia along two dimensions: license - authors agree to the GNU Free Documentation Licenseeditorial standards - Wikipedia says that content should be sourced from one or more research papers or textbooks, not just from the personal knowledge of the author, or from some web page. I think that this principal should be followed to the degree possible. We could, for example, quarantine non-sourced content into clearly marked sections of the containing article. Typical non-sourced content would be some OpenCog API that is not yet published in a journal article, technical report, or text book.I concede in advance that most AGIRI Wiki authors will find Wikipedia editorial standards burdensome, but the benefit would be athat content from the AGIRI Wiki can be used to create new, or improve existing Wikipedia articles. And if we can agree that on the easy-to-achieve license, content from Wikipedia, e.g. my article on Hierarchical control systems can easily be imported into the AGIRI Wiki. Wikipedia is important to AGI, not only as an online encyclopedia that facilitates almost universal access to AGI related topics, but as a target for AI researchers that want to structure the text into a vast knowledge base. Somewhere down the road to self-improvement, an AGI will be reading Wikipedia. Stephen L. Reed -Steve Artificial Intelligence Researcher http://texai.org/blog http://texai.org 3008 Oak Crest Ave. Austin, Texas, USA 78704 512.791.7860 - Original Message From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: agi@v2.listbox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 6:46:24 PM Subject: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Thanks Mark ... let's see how it evolves... I think the problem is not finding a publisher, but rather, finding the time to contribute and refine the content Maybe in a year or two there will be enough good content there that someone with appropriate time and inclination and skill can shape it into a textbook -- Ben On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 9:49 AM, Mark Waser [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Ben, I have a publisher who would love to publish the result of the wiki as a textbook if you are willing. Mark - Original Message - From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: agi@v2.listbox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Hi Stephen, Ben, Wikipedia has significant overlap with the topic list on the AGIRI Wiki. I propose for discussion the notion that the AGIRI Wiki be content-compatible with Wikipedia along two dimensions: license - authors agree to the GNU Free Documentation License I have no problem with that editorial standards - Wikipedia says that content should be sourced from one or more research papers or textbooks, not just from the personal knowledge of the author, or from some web page. Well, I think it is appropriate that a wiki covering an in-development research area should contain a mix of sourced and non-sourced contents, actually. In many cases it's the non-sourced content that will be the most valuable, because it represents practical knowledge and experience of AGI researchers and developers, which is too new or raw to have been put into the formal literature yet. I concede in advance that most AGIRI Wiki authors will find Wikipedia editorial standards burdensome, To me this is a pretty major point. The challenge with an AGI wiki right now is to get people to contribute quality content at all ... so I'm not psyched about, right now at the starting stage, making them jump through hoops in order to do so. but the benefit would be athat content from the AGIRI Wiki can be used to create new, or improve existing Wikipedia articles. That would be the case so long as the license is in place, it doesn't require everything to be sourced -- appropriate sourcing could always be introduced at the time of porting to Wikipedia. As the author of a load of academic papers, I'm well aware of how irritating and time-consuming it is to properly reference sources. If I have to do that for text I place on the AGIRI wiki, I'm not likely to contribute much to it, just like I don't currently contribute much to Wikipedia. I just don't have the time And if we can agree that on the easy-to-achieve license, content from Wikipedia, e.g. my article on Hierarchical control systems can easily be imported into the AGIRI Wiki. I don't see a problem with the license. Wikipedia is important to AGI, not only as an online encyclopedia that facilitates almost universal access to AGI related topics, but as a target for AI researchers that want to structure the text into a vast knowledge base. Somewhere down the road to self-improvement, an AGI will be reading Wikipedia. Along with the rest of the Web ... for sure ;-) -- Ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Ben, I just created an account on the wiki and created my user page derived from my Wikipedia user page. Image uploads on the wiki work the same way as on Wikipedia - Yay. -Steve Stephen L. Reed Artificial Intelligence Researcher http://texai.org/blog http://texai.org 3008 Oak Crest Ave. Austin, Texas, USA 78704 512.791.7860 - Original Message From: Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: agi@v2.listbox.com Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2008 6:46:24 PM Subject: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:47 PM, Ben Goertzel wrote: Is there some kind of online software that lets a group of people update a Mind Map diagram collaboratively, in the manner of a Wiki page? This would seem critical if a Mind Map is to really be useful for the purpose you suggest... Here is a recent review of online mind mapping software: http://usableworld.terapad.com/index.cfm?fa=contentNews.newsDetailsnewsID=41870from=listdirectoryId=14375 Online mindmap tools - Updated! By James Breeze in Mind Maps Published: Saturday, 08 March 08 BillK --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On 3/26/08, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. Ben, while we're on the topic, could you elaborate a bit on what kind of prerequisite knowledge the books you've written/edited require? For instance, I've been putting off reading Artificial General Intelligence on the assumption that for the full benefit, it requires a good understanding of narrow-AI/basic compsci concepts that I haven't necessarily yet acquired (currently working my way through Russel Norvig in order to fix that). The Hidden Pattern sounds like it would be heavier on the general cogsci/philosophy of mind requirements, and the Probabilistic Logic Networks one probably needs a heavy dose of maths (what kind of maths)? What about the OpenCog/Novamente documentation you've mentioned maybe releasing this year? (Agiri.org seems to be down, by the way, so I can't access the textbook page.) -- http://www.saunalahti.fi/~tspro1/ | http://xuenay.livejournal.com/ Organizations worth your time: http://www.singinst.org/ | http://www.crnano.org/ | http://lifeboat.com/ --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
A propos of the several branches of discussion about AGI textbooks on this thread... Knowing what I do about the structure and content of the book I am writing, I cannot imagine it being merged as just a set of branch points from other works, like the one growing from Ben's TOC. What I am doing is a coherent body of thought in its own right, with a radically different underlying philosophy, so it really needs to be a standalone project. Richard Loosemore --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Fair enough, Richard... Again I'll emphasize that the idea of the Instead of an AGI Textbook is not to teach any particular theory or design for AGI, but rather to convey background knowledge that is useful for folks who wish to come to grips with contemporary AGI theories and designs I have articulated my own coherent body of thought regarding AGI as well, but I consider it to best be presented at the research treatise or research paper rather than textbook level... -- Ben G On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 12:55 PM, Richard Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A propos of the several branches of discussion about AGI textbooks on this thread... Knowing what I do about the structure and content of the book I am writing, I cannot imagine it being merged as just a set of branch points from other works, like the one growing from Ben's TOC. What I am doing is a coherent body of thought in its own right, with a radically different underlying philosophy, so it really needs to be a standalone project. Richard Loosemore --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Thanks Ben, this is a major help to those interested in AGI but who aren't yet in the know, it's a bit hard to follow this listserv because there is no central place to search for terms I don't understand. On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 4:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Robin Gane-McCalla YIM: Robin_Ganemccalla AIM: Robinganemccalla --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Ben Goertzel wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. Ben, Unfortunately I cannot bring myself to believe this will help anyone new to the area. The main reason is that this is only a miscellaneous list of topics, with nothing to indicate a comprehensive theory or a unifying structure. I do not ask for a complete unified theory, of course, but something more than just a collection of techniques is needed if this is to be a textbook. A second reason for being skeptical is that there is virtually no cognitive psychology in this list - just a smattering of odd topics. As you know, I have argued elsewhere that keeping close to the design of the human mind is the *only* way to build an artificial general intelligence. You completely disagree with this, and I respect your point of view, but given that there is at least one other AGI researcher (me) who believes that cognitive psychology is extremely significant, it seems bizarre that your list does not even include a comprehensive introduction to that field. How could a new person who wanted to get into AGI make a judgment of the value of cognitive psychology if they had nothing but a superficial appreciation of it? Finally, you said that Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. This is not correct: I have been working on this for quite some time, and I believe I mentioned that on at least one occasion before (though apologies if me memory is at fault there). Richard loosemore --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Richard, Unfortunately I cannot bring myself to believe this will help anyone new to the area. The main reason is that this is only a miscellaneous list of topics, with nothing to indicate a comprehensive theory or a unifying structure. I do not ask for a complete unified theory, of course, but something more than just a collection of techniques is needed if this is to be a textbook. I have my own comprehensive theory and unifying structure for AGI... Pei has his... You have yours... Stan Franklin has his... Etc. These have been published with varying levels of detail in various places ... I'll be publishing more of mine this year, in the PLN book, and then in the OpenCog documentation and plans ... but many of the conceptual aspects of my approach were already mentioned in The Hidden Pattern My goal in Instead of an AGI Textbook is **not** to present anyone's unifying theory (not even my own) but rather to give pointers to **what information a student should learn, in order to digest the various unifying theories being proposed**. To put it another way: Aside from a strong undergrad background in CS and good programming skills, what would I like someone to know about in order for them to work on Novamente or OpenCog or some other vaguely similar AI project? Not everything in my suggested TOC is actually used in Novamente or OpenCog... but even the stuff that isn't, is interesting to know about if you're going to work on these things, just to have a general awareness of the various approaches that have been taken to these problems... A second reason for being skeptical is that there is virtually no cognitive psychology in this list - just a smattering of odd topics. Yes, that's a fair point -- that's a shortcoming of the draft TOC as I posted it. Please feel free to add some additional, relevant cog psych topics to the page ;-) -- Ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:39 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Richard, Unfortunately I cannot bring myself to believe this will help anyone new to the area. The main reason is that this is only a miscellaneous list of topics, with nothing to indicate a comprehensive theory or a unifying structure. Actually it's not a haphazardly assembled miscellaneous list of topics ... it was assembled with a purpose and structure in mind... Specifically, I was thinking of OpenCog, and what it would be good for someone to know in order to have a relatively full grasp of the OpenCog design. As such, the topic list may contain stuff that is not relevant to your AGI design, and also may miss stuff that is critical to your AGI design... But the non textbook is NOT intended as a presentation of OpenCog or any other specific AGI theory or framework. Rather, it is indeed, largely, a grab bag of relevant prerequisite information ... along with some information on specific AGI approaches... One problem I've found is that the traditional undergrad CS or AI education does not actually give all the prerequisites for really grasping AGI theories ... often topics are touched in a particularly non-AGI-ish way ... for instance, neural nets are touched but complex dynamics in NN's are skipped ... Bayes nets are touched but issues involving combining probability with more complex logic operations are skipped ... neurons are discussed but theories of holistic brain function are skipped ... etc. The most AGI-relevant stuff always seems to get skipped for lack of time..! ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. That would be great -- however I may integrate your reading list into my TOC ... as I really think there is value in a structured and categorized reading list rather than just a list... I know every researcher will have their own foci, but I'm going to try to unify different researchers' suggestions into a single TOC with a sensible organization, because I would like to cut through the confusion faced by students starting out in this field of research... ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Thanks Ben. AGI is a daunting field to say the least. Many scientific domains are involved in various degrees. I am very happy to see something like this, because knowing where to start is not so obvious for the beginner. I actually recently purchased Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach - but only because I did not know where else to start. I have the programming down - but, like most others, I don't know *what* to program. I really hope that others will contribute to your TOC. In fact, I am willing to put up and host an AGI Wiki if theis community would find it of use. I'd need a few weeks - because I don't have the time right now - but it is a worthwhile endeavor, and I'm happy to do it. ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Yeah, the AGIRI wiki has been there for years ... the hard thing is getting people to contribute to it (and I myself rarely find the time...) But if others don't chip in, I'll complete my little non-textbook myself sometime w/in the next month ... -- Ben On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:52 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok - that was silly of me. After visiting the link (which was after I sent the email), I noticed that is WAS a Wiki. My apologies. ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Ben. AGI is a daunting field to say the least. Many scientific domains are involved in various degrees. I am very happy to see something like this, because knowing where to start is not so obvious for the beginner. I actually recently purchased Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach - but only because I did not know where else to start. I have the programming down - but, like most others, I don't know *what* to program. I really hope that others will contribute to your TOC. In fact, I am willing to put up and host an AGI Wiki if theis community would find it of use. I'd need a few weeks - because I don't have the time right now - but it is a worthwhile endeavor, and I'm happy to do it. ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
I actually recently purchased Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach - but only because I did not know where else to start. It's a very good book ... if you view it as providing insight into various component technologies of potential use for AGI ... rather than as saying very much directly about AGI... I have the programming down - but, like most others, I don't know *what* to program. Well I hope to solve that problem in May -- via releasing the initial version of OpenCog, plus a load of wiki pages indicating stuff that, IMO, if implemented, tuned and tested would allow OpenCog to be turned into a powerful AGI system ;-) -- Ben Ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Ok - that was silly of me. After visiting the link (which was after I sent the email), I noticed that is WAS a Wiki. My apologies. ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:47 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Ben. AGI is a daunting field to say the least. Many scientific domains are involved in various degrees. I am very happy to see something like this, because knowing where to start is not so obvious for the beginner. I actually recently purchased Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach - but only because I did not know where else to start. I have the programming down - but, like most others, I don't know *what* to program. I really hope that others will contribute to your TOC. In fact, I am willing to put up and host an AGI Wiki if theis community would find it of use. I'd need a few weeks - because I don't have the time right now - but it is a worthwhile endeavor, and I'm happy to do it. ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Hi Pei - What about having a tree like diagram that branches out into either: - the different paths / approaches to AGI (for instance: NARS, Novamente, and Richard's, etc.), with suggested readings at those leaves - area of study, with suggested readings at those leaves Or possibly, a Mind Map diagram that shows AGI in the middle, with the approaches stemming from it, and then either sub fields, or a reading list and / or collection of links (though the links may become outdated, dead). Point is, would a diagram help map the field - which caters to the differing approaches, and which helps those wanting to chart a course to their own learning/study ? Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Thanks Ben. That is really exciting stuff / news. I'm loking forward to OpenCog. BTW - is OpenCog mainly in C++ (like Novamente) ? Or is it translations (to Java, or other languages) of concepts so that others can code and add to it more readily and quickly? Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:58 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I actually recently purchased Artificial Intelligence: A Modern Approach - but only because I did not know where else to start. It's a very good book ... if you view it as providing insight into various component technologies of potential use for AGI ... rather than as saying very much directly about AGI... I have the programming down - but, like most others, I don't know *what* to program. Well I hope to solve that problem in May -- via releasing the initial version of OpenCog, plus a load of wiki pages indicating stuff that, IMO, if implemented, tuned and tested would allow OpenCog to be turned into a powerful AGI system ;-) -- Ben Ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pei - What about having a tree like diagram that branches out into either: - the different paths / approaches to AGI (for instance: NARS, Novamente, and Richard's, etc.), with suggested readings at those leaves - area of study, with suggested readings at those leaves Yes, that is what I like. I know Ben would rather stress the similarity of the approaches, and merge all the lists into one, but I'd rather keep the difference visible. One reason is otherwise the list will be too long for anyone to follow. Or possibly, a Mind Map diagram that shows AGI in the middle, with the approaches stemming from it, and then either sub fields, or a reading list and / or collection of links (though the links may become outdated, dead). Point is, would a diagram help map the field - which caters to the differing approaches, and which helps those wanting to chart a course to their own learning/study ? In principle, yes, but a diagram with many text in it tends to look confusing. After we get the lists, you can play with them to see what is the best way to show the information. Thanks, Pei Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed:
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Agree. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:33 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds good Pei - thanks. Multiple lists are definitely a great start - to stress differences. And a companion master list to stress similarities would also be helpful. Everyone learns differently - and though a master list may seem intimidating, it may better represent breadth - where several distinct lists may better represent a cohesive structure(s). Having both seems to make sense. ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pei - What about having a tree like diagram that branches out into either: - the different paths / approaches to AGI (for instance: NARS, Novamente, and Richard's, etc.), with suggested readings at those leaves - area of study, with suggested readings at those leaves Yes, that is what I like. I know Ben would rather stress the similarity of the approaches, and merge all the lists into one, but I'd rather keep the difference visible. One reason is otherwise the list will be too long for anyone to follow. Or possibly, a Mind Map diagram that shows AGI in the middle, with the approaches stemming from it, and then either sub fields, or a reading list and / or collection of links (though the links may become outdated, dead). Point is, would a diagram help map the field - which caters to the differing approaches, and which helps those wanting to chart a course to their own learning/study ? In principle, yes, but a diagram with many text in it tends to look confusing. After we get the lists, you can play with them to see what is the best way to show the information. Thanks, Pei Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI.
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
Sounds good Pei - thanks. Multiple lists are definitely a great start - to stress differences. And a companion master list to stress similarities would also be helpful. Everyone learns differently - and though a master list may seem intimidating, it may better represent breadth - where several distinct lists may better represent a cohesive structure(s). Having both seems to make sense. ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:23 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pei - What about having a tree like diagram that branches out into either: - the different paths / approaches to AGI (for instance: NARS, Novamente, and Richard's, etc.), with suggested readings at those leaves - area of study, with suggested readings at those leaves Yes, that is what I like. I know Ben would rather stress the similarity of the approaches, and merge all the lists into one, but I'd rather keep the difference visible. One reason is otherwise the list will be too long for anyone to follow. Or possibly, a Mind Map diagram that shows AGI in the middle, with the approaches stemming from it, and then either sub fields, or a reading list and / or collection of links (though the links may become outdated, dead). Point is, would a diagram help map the field - which caters to the differing approaches, and which helps those wanting to chart a course to their own learning/study ? In principle, yes, but a diagram with many text in it tends to look confusing. After we get the lists, you can play with them to see what is the best way to show the information. Thanks, Pei Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:07 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks Ben. That is really exciting stuff / news. I'm loking forward to OpenCog. BTW - is OpenCog mainly in C++ (like Novamente) ? Or is it translations (to Java, or other languages) of concepts so that others can code and add to it more readily and quickly? yes, the OpenCog core system is C++ , though there are some peripheral code libraries (e.g. the RelEx natural language preprocessor) which are in Java... ben --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?member_id=8660244id_secret=98558129-0bdb63 Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com
Re: [agi] Instead of an AGI Textbook
This kind of diagram would certainly be meaningful, but, it would be a lot of work to put together, even more so than a traditional TOC ... On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 11:02 PM, Aki Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Pei - What about having a tree like diagram that branches out into either: - the different paths / approaches to AGI (for instance: NARS, Novamente, and Richard's, etc.), with suggested readings at those leaves - area of study, with suggested readings at those leaves Or possibly, a Mind Map diagram that shows AGI in the middle, with the approaches stemming from it, and then either sub fields, or a reading list and / or collection of links (though the links may become outdated, dead). Point is, would a diagram help map the field - which caters to the differing approaches, and which helps those wanting to chart a course to their own learning/study ? Thanks, ~Aki On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 9:22 PM, Pei Wang [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ben, It is a good start! Of course everyone else will disagree --- like what Richard did and I'm going to do. ;-) I'll try to find the time to provide my list --- at this moment, it will be more like a reading list than a textbook TOC. In the future, it will be integrated into the E-book I'm working on (http://nars.wang.googlepages.com/gti-summary). Compared to yours, mine will contain less math and algorithms, but more psychology and philosophy. I'd like to see what Richard and others want to propose. We shouldn't try to merge them into one wiki page, but several. Pei On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 7:46 PM, Ben Goertzel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, A lot of students email me asking me what to read to get up to speed on AGI. So I started a wiki page called Instead of an AGI Textbook, http://www.agiri.org/wiki/Instead_of_an_AGI_Textbook#Computational_Linguistics Unfortunately I did not yet find time to do much but outline a table of contents there. So I'm hoping some of you can chip in and fill in some relevant hyperlinks on the pages I've created ;-) For those of you too lazy to click the above link, here is the introductory note I put on the wiki page: I've often lamented the fact that there is no advanced undergrad level textbook for AGI, analogous to what Russell and Norvig is for Narrow AI. Unfortunately, I don't have time to write such a textbook, and no one else with the requisite knowledge and ability seems to have the time and inclination either. So, instead of a textbook, I thought it would make sense to outline here what the table of contents of such a textbook might look like, and to fill in each section within each chapter in this TOC with a few links to available online resources dealing with the topic of the section. However, all I found time to do today (March 25, 2008) is make the TOC. Maybe later I will fill in the links on each section's page, or maybe by the time I get around it some other folks will have done it. While nowhere near as good as a textbook, I do think this can be a valuable resource for those wanting to get up to speed on AGI concepts and not knowing where to turn to get started. There are some available AGI bibliographies, but a structured bibliography like this can probably be more useful than an unstructured and heterogeneous one. Naturally my initial TOC represents some of my own biases, but I trust that by having others help edit it, these biases will ultimately come out in the wash. Just to be clear: the idea here is not to present solely AGI material. Rather the idea is to present material that I think students would do well to know, if they want to work on AGI. This includes some AGI, some narrow AI, some psychology, some neuroscience, some mathematics, etc. *** -- Ben -- Ben Goertzel, PhD CEO, Novamente LLC and Biomind LLC Director of Research, SIAI [EMAIL PROTECTED] If men cease to believe that they will one day become gods then they will surely become worms. -- Henry Miller --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com --- agi Archives: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/303/=now RSS Feed: http://www.listbox.com/member/archive/rss/303/ Modify Your Subscription: http://www.listbox.com/member/?; Powered by Listbox: http://www.listbox.com -- Aki R. Iskandar [EMAIL PROTECTED] agi | Archives | Modify Your Subscription -- Ben Goertzel, PhD
