Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-24 Thread Grant
 I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
 add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
 24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?

 For inexpensive, I believe one of the CMI cards would be a good choice.
 Note, I haven't any and you want to check specific support for (the exact
 chip on) the one you'd get but as far as I'm aware, any current CMI chip
 does 24-bit.

I'm thinking I'll get either the Sound Blaster Live! 24-bit or Sound
Blaster Audigy, both PCI.  These both support 24-bit playback and are
supported in Linux, but can I count on 24-bit *in* Linux?

- Grant

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 21-08-08 16:15, Grant wrote:

 I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
 add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
 24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?

For inexpensive, I believe one of the CMI cards would be a good choice. 
Note, I haven't any and you want to check specific support for (the 
exact chip on) the one you'd get but as far as I'm aware, any current 
CMI chip does 24-bit.

Rene.

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread James Shatto
I picked up a Delta 44 (pci / ice1712) off of craigslist for $100.  I would 
check to see what they need first.  The Delta is a fine card, but by the time 
you add in a microphone preamp, headphone preamp, and stuff just to record / 
playback stuff.  Not to mention the costs of cables and adapters relative to a 
typical household existing items.

Recording wise 24 bit gives you a greater dynamic sampling range.  But for most 
people it's not needed for playback as your CDs and DVDs are already in a 16 
bit format.  And the benefit on playback is minimal.  Aside from generally 
being a better soundcard, rather than from the media that it will be playing.  
Are you looking for a card that only does 24 bit?  Most that I know of do 16 
and 24 bit.  And the only 24 bit media I have is that that I created myself.


 I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
 add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
 24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Grant
 I picked up a Delta 44 (pci / ice1712) off of craigslist for $100.  I would 
 check to see what they need first.  The Delta is a fine card, but by the time 
 you add in a microphone preamp, headphone preamp, and stuff just to record / 
 playback stuff.  Not to mention the costs of cables and adapters relative to 
 a typical household existing items.

 Recording wise 24 bit gives you a greater dynamic sampling range.  But for 
 most people it's not needed for playback as your CDs and DVDs are already in 
 a 16 bit format.  And the benefit on playback is minimal.  Aside from 
 generally being a better soundcard, rather than from the media that it will 
 be playing.  Are you looking for a card that only does 24 bit?  Most that I 
 know of do 16 and 24 bit.  And the only 24 bit media I have is that that I 
 created myself.

16-bit and 24-bit support should be fine.  One of the authors wants to
add 24-bit support but needs hardware with 24-bit support so he can
test.

The reason I'm interested in 24-bit support is I want to buy a
particular USB DAC that oversamples everything to 24-bit.  I must
admit I'm also interested in the minimal benefit of 24-bit source
material (DVD-A, etc).

- Grant


 I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
 add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
 24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Grant
 I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
 add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
 24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?

 For inexpensive, I believe one of the CMI cards would be a good choice.
 Note, I haven't any and you want to check specific support for (the exact
 chip on) the one you'd get but as far as I'm aware, any current CMI chip
 does 24-bit.

According to this:

http://www.cmedia.com.tw/?q=en/pci_audio

The only CMI card that does 24-bit is the CMI8787 and I literally
can't find it for sale online.  The site does say Linux driver
available though.

- Grant

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Mark Constable
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:37:31 am Grant wrote:
  I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
  add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
  24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?

Just a non-relevent FWIW but my cheap $80 mobo does 24/96 with
an optical output and I think it also does 44.1Khtz passthru
using the snd_hda_intel driver.

00:07.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP67 High Definition Audio (rev a1)

--markc

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Mark A Jenks
I just bought this board and am working on building it into a myth box
that I am building.

Everything looked real good, and it installed good with Suse 11.

Sound output looked good also.

Uses the snd_oxygen CMI8788 module. 


 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
 Mark Constable
 Sent: Friday, August 22, 2008 11:01 AM
 To: alsa-user@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card
 
 On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:37:31 am Grant wrote:
   I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the 
 mpd project to
   add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive 
 one that is
   24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?
 
 Just a non-relevent FWIW but my cheap $80 mobo does 24/96 with
 an optical output and I think it also does 44.1Khtz passthru
 using the snd_hda_intel driver.
 
 00:07.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP67 High 
 Definition Audio (rev a1)
 
 --markc
 
 --
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 Developer's challenge
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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Grant
  I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
  add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
  24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?
 Just a non-relevent FWIW but my cheap $80 mobo does 24/96 with
 an optical output and I think it also does 44.1Khtz passthru
 using the snd_hda_intel driver.

 00:07.0 Audio device: nVidia Corporation MCP67 High Definition Audio (rev a1)

 --markc

The 24-bit DAC I'll be using is USB so I'm thinking maybe I should be
donating a USB one.  I found the Creative sb0490 for about $50 which
is said to work in Linux here:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=584190

It goes to 24/96 in stereo and that's as high as my DAC will go so I'm
thinking it's about right.  What do you guys think?

- Grant

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 22-08-08 15:07, James Shatto wrote:

 Recording wise 24 bit gives you a greater dynamic sampling range. But
 for most people it's not needed for playback as your CDs and DVDs
 are already in a 16 bit format. And the benefit on playback is
 minimal. Aside from generally being a better soundcard, rather than
 from the media that it will be playing. Are you looking for a card
 that only does 24 bit? Most that I know of do 16 and 24 bit. And the
 only 24 bit media I have is that that I created myself.

I can recommend becoming a Neil Young fan. He has released several CDs 
now with a bonus DVD containing the entire album in 96/24 (PCM) :-)

Rene.

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 22-08-08 17:37, Grant wrote:

 I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
 add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
 24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?
 For inexpensive, I believe one of the CMI cards would be a good choice.
 Note, I haven't any and you want to check specific support for (the exact
 chip on) the one you'd get but as far as I'm aware, any current CMI chip
 does 24-bit.
 
 OK, a little more digging and that cmedia link must have had a typo.
 There is also a chipset called the CMI8788 contained by the bluegears
 b-Enspirer which is about $100.  I've read that CMI cards have good
 ALSA support.  Does this sound like a good one?

Sounds a bit expensive -- if I'm not mistaken those cards can be had 
locally from brands such as Trust and Club 3D but also a nicer brand 
such as TerraTec for around EUR50. It's a bit hard to make sure as 
online stores seem to not consider the audio-chipset marketable information.

Otherwise, yes, probably okay, but you want to cross-reference tbis with 
the driver author, placed in CC. I haven't a modern CMI card so wouldn't 
know about gotchas such as 24-bit for playback and not capture and stuff 
like that.

Rene.

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Grant
 Recording wise 24 bit gives you a greater dynamic sampling range. But
 for most people it's not needed for playback as your CDs and DVDs
 are already in a 16 bit format. And the benefit on playback is
 minimal. Aside from generally being a better soundcard, rather than
 from the media that it will be playing. Are you looking for a card
 that only does 24 bit? Most that I know of do 16 and 24 bit. And the
 only 24 bit media I have is that that I created myself.

 I can recommend becoming a Neil Young fan. He has released several CDs now
 with a bonus DVD containing the entire album in 96/24 (PCM) :-)

Are you sure about that?  I know he released a bunch of DVD-A discs
with 24-bit stuff, but are you saying he released normal DVDs with
24/96 files just sitting there?  Google is no help.  Can you name one
or two?  I'm a huge fan.

BTW, the entire Doors catalog is available on DVD-A in 24/96.

- Grant

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 22-08-08 20:58, Grant wrote:
 Recording wise 24 bit gives you a greater dynamic sampling range. But
 for most people it's not needed for playback as your CDs and DVDs
 are already in a 16 bit format. And the benefit on playback is
 minimal. Aside from generally being a better soundcard, rather than
 from the media that it will be playing. Are you looking for a card
 that only does 24 bit? Most that I know of do 16 and 24 bit. And the
 only 24 bit media I have is that that I created myself.
 I can recommend becoming a Neil Young fan. He has released several CDs now
 with a bonus DVD containing the entire album in 96/24 (PCM) :-)
 
 Are you sure about that?  I know he released a bunch of DVD-A discs
 with 24-bit stuff, but are you saying he released normal DVDs with
 24/96 files just sitting there?  Google is no help.  Can you name one
 or two?  I'm a huge fan.

Definitely. CD/DVD version of his Greatest Hits (2004) has the entire 
album in 96/24 PCM on the DVD-Video (which on a video DVD player shows a 
nice picture of a spinning turntable while playing)

Same thing for Living with war, In the begining (2006). Note, that's 
not the regular Living with war.

Those are the two I have here. mplayer was giving me endless grief 
actually ripping the tracks from the DVD so I haven't yet done that in 
fact, but:

==
Opening audio decoder: [dvdpcm] Uncompressed DVD/VOB LPCM audio decoder
AUDIO: 96000 Hz, 2 ch, s24be, 4608.0 kbit/100.00% (ratio: 576000-576000)
Selected audio codec: [dvdpcm] afm: dvdpcm (Uncompressed DVD/VOB LPCM)
==

(which then plays to a soundcard that does 4800/16 at best, but hey).

Living with war is not his finest work -- the In the beginning 
version improves on it but there's just so much polish you can put on a 
turd.

I'd _very_ much advice the Greatest Hits CD/DVD one though. Truly and 
definitely excellent sound quality and ofcourse great music. There's a 
sticker on the front with:

--
BECAUSE
SOUND
MATTERS
--
CD/DVD COMBO-PAK
--
COMBO-PAK features all
original master mixes
now in super-saturated
DVD-Stereo for the
-
HIGHEST
QUALITY
AUDIO
available on DVD
-
Also available on CD only
-

Especially if you, like me, like very direct recordings, you're going to 
love the sound-quality even of the CD (as most of his releases, a HDCD).

 BTW, the entire Doors catalog is available on DVD-A in 24/96.

For DVD-A you need a DVD-A player it would seem. I definitely haven't one.

Rene.

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Grant
 Recording wise 24 bit gives you a greater dynamic sampling range. But
 for most people it's not needed for playback as your CDs and DVDs
 are already in a 16 bit format. And the benefit on playback is
 minimal. Aside from generally being a better soundcard, rather than
 from the media that it will be playing. Are you looking for a card
 that only does 24 bit? Most that I know of do 16 and 24 bit. And the
 only 24 bit media I have is that that I created myself.

 I can recommend becoming a Neil Young fan. He has released several CDs
 now
 with a bonus DVD containing the entire album in 96/24 (PCM) :-)

 Are you sure about that?  I know he released a bunch of DVD-A discs
 with 24-bit stuff, but are you saying he released normal DVDs with
 24/96 files just sitting there?  Google is no help.  Can you name one
 or two?  I'm a huge fan.

 Definitely. CD/DVD version of his Greatest Hits (2004) has the entire
 album in 96/24 PCM on the DVD-Video (which on a video DVD player shows a
 nice picture of a spinning turntable while playing)

 Same thing for Living with war, In the begining (2006). Note, that's not
 the regular Living with war.

 Those are the two I have here. mplayer was giving me endless grief actually
 ripping the tracks from the DVD so I haven't yet done that in fact, but:

 ==
 Opening audio decoder: [dvdpcm] Uncompressed DVD/VOB LPCM audio decoder
 AUDIO: 96000 Hz, 2 ch, s24be, 4608.0 kbit/100.00% (ratio: 576000-576000)
 Selected audio codec: [dvdpcm] afm: dvdpcm (Uncompressed DVD/VOB LPCM)
 ==

 (which then plays to a soundcard that does 4800/16 at best, but hey).

Can you just mount the DVD and cp the tracks over?  Probably not or
you would have done that.

 Living with war is not his finest work -- the In the beginning version
 improves on it but there's just so much polish you can put on a turd.

 I'd _very_ much advice the Greatest Hits CD/DVD one though. Truly and
 definitely excellent sound quality and ofcourse great music.

Do you know of others?  I read he is into the Blu-Ray format and I
can't imagine him going too all out with DVD-Video when he has his
sights on Blu-Ray.

 Especially if you, like me, like very direct recordings, you're going to
 love the sound-quality even of the CD (as most of his releases, a HDCD).

Can you rip and play back 20-bit HDCD audio?

 BTW, the entire Doors catalog is available on DVD-A in 24/96.

 For DVD-A you need a DVD-A player it would seem. I definitely haven't one.

All you really need is a DVD drive and:

http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/

- Grant

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 22-08-08 23:09, Grant wrote:

 Can you just mount the DVD and cp the tracks over?  Probably not or
 you would have done that.

Not as individual tracks no. It's a regular DVD-Video, so you can copy 
over the VOBs ofcourse, but piecing things together requires processing 
them from harddisk then...

 Living with war is not his finest work -- the In the beginning version
 improves on it but there's just so much polish you can put on a turd.

 I'd _very_ much advice the Greatest Hits CD/DVD one though. Truly and
 definitely excellent sound quality and ofcourse great music.
 
 Do you know of others?  I read he is into the Blu-Ray format and I
 can't imagine him going too all out with DVD-Video when he has his
 sights on Blu-Ray.

Yes, he's going Blu-Ray. Greatest Hits and Living with war, in the 
beginning are 2 of the 3 CD/DVD I have of Neil Young, but according to 
his discography:

http://www.neilyoung.com/archives/discography/nyd_start1.html

those might in fact be the only 2 with 96/24 audio. All his recent 
releases have a CD and a deluxe CD/DVD version, but only with those 
two does it mention high-resultion audio tracks there.

 Especially if you, like me, like very direct recordings, you're going to
 love the sound-quality even of the CD (as most of his releases, a HDCD).
 
 Can you rip and play back 20-bit HDCD audio?

I could, with a hackish tool I have here, but I must say that for now 
I'm experiencing the value in HDCD mosly in the fact that if something 
is an HDCD it was produced by someone that gives a shit about sound 
quality and stands a good chance of sounding good on anything...

 BTW, the entire Doors catalog is available on DVD-A in 24/96.
 For DVD-A you need a DVD-A player it would seem. I definitely haven't one.
 
 All you really need is a DVD drive and:
 
 http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/

Interesting. Thanks.

Rene.

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Grant
 Can you rip and play back 20-bit HDCD audio?

 I could, with a hackish tool I have here, but I must say that for now I'm
 experiencing the value in HDCD mosly in the fact that if something is an
 HDCD it was produced by someone that gives a shit about sound quality and
 stands a good chance of sounding good on anything...

 BTW, the entire Doors catalog is available on DVD-A in 24/96.

 For DVD-A you need a DVD-A player it would seem. I definitely haven't
 one.

 All you really need is a DVD drive and:

 http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/

 Interesting. Thanks.

Check this out:

http://dvd-a.info/Index.asp?stitle=neil+young

2 pages of mainly Neil Young DVD-A releases all containing tracks up
to 24bit/176khz.  Lots of people are ripping their DVD-A discs with
the above tool.

- Grant

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread James Shatto
 Those are the two I have here. mplayer was giving me endless grief 
 actually ripping the tracks from the DVD so I haven't yet done that in 
 fact, but:

mplayer -dumpaudio -dumpfile sound_track.wav ./source.vob

Granted that my default distro supplied version of mplayer didn't work for 
this.  I had to compile a custom version of mplayer from source.  At least 
that's how it was for debian.  At least it's not as bad as RH and others that 
strip out all mp3 support and such.  Although I had to compile lame from source 
as well on debian.  Mainly to get Layer III, versus Layer II type mp3's.  Since 
my mp3 player is picky.  It also solved the Audacity issue of exporting mp3's 
and not finding some lib.

I have a number of lower grade historical archives of visual arts programs with 
insufficient audio.  i.e. Normalized to the audio of the announcer, not the 
group.  So I've had to edit the audio and rejoin it to the video to make it 
viewable (by humans) for all intents and purposes.  That and their DVD audio 
format is 2.1 at best.

HTH

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 22-08-08 23:44, James Shatto wrote:

 Those are the two I have here. mplayer was giving me endless grief 
 actually ripping the tracks from the DVD so I haven't yet done that in 
 fact, but:
 
 mplayer -dumpaudio -dumpfile sound_track.wav ./source.vob

I'd have figured that out :-) Didn't work with the 96/24 audio...

Rene.

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 22-08-08 23:44, Grant wrote:

 http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/

 Interesting. Thanks.
 
 Check this out:
 
 http://dvd-a.info/Index.asp?stitle=neil+young
 
 2 pages of mainly Neil Young DVD-A releases all containing tracks up
 to 24bit/176khz.  Lots of people are ripping their DVD-A discs with
 the above tool.

DVD-A is extremely uncommon at least over here in the Netherlands. I'd 
consider it dead and buried, had it not been for the fact that it never 
lived. SACD did very little here, DVD-A nothing, and currently they're 
both dead. I also have none.

I'm watching Blu-Ray. Might be investing a bit in that...

Rene.


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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread James Shatto
  mplayer -dumpaudio -dumpfile sound_track.wav ./source.vob
 
 I'd have figured that out :-) Didn't work with the 96/24 audio...

Well, you could probably do the arecord method.

arecord -D copy -t wav -c 2 -f S24_BE -r 96000 audio_track.wav
(unverified syntax)

Set record to the PCM / VOL device (which I can only do in aumix for some 
reason).  Set the gain / lever for PCM to 50% / tastes.  And play the track.  
Of course it assumes your soundcard is capable, you have copy in .asoundrc, and 
your soundcard can play 24/96kHz.

Although that dvd-audio.sf.net tool might be a better option.  Or you might 
just need the mencoder option of -oac copy -ovc null for mplayer.  I don't have 
said media, so I can't play / test it out.

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Grant
 http://dvd-audio.sourceforge.net/

 Interesting. Thanks.

 Check this out:

 http://dvd-a.info/Index.asp?stitle=neil+young

 2 pages of mainly Neil Young DVD-A releases all containing tracks up
 to 24bit/176khz.  Lots of people are ripping their DVD-A discs with
 the above tool.

 DVD-A is extremely uncommon at least over here in the Netherlands. I'd
 consider it dead and buried, had it not been for the fact that it never
 lived. SACD did very little here, DVD-A nothing, and currently they're both
 dead. I also have none.

 I'm watching Blu-Ray. Might be investing a bit in that...

Of course DVD-A is dead, but DVD-Video containing audio won't catch up
with this:

http://dvd-a.info/Index.asp?stitle=neil+young

Blu-Ray surely will but the above is available now.

- Grant

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Re: [Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-22 Thread Rene Herman
On 23-08-08 00:00, James Shatto wrote:

 mplayer -dumpaudio -dumpfile sound_track.wav ./source.vob
 I'd have figured that out :-) Didn't work with the 96/24 audio...
 
 Well, you could probably do the arecord method.
 
 arecord -D copy -t wav -c 2 -f S24_BE -r 96000 audio_track.wav 
 (unverified syntax)
 
 Set record to the PCM / VOL device (which I can only do in aumix for
 some reason).  Set the gain / lever for PCM to 50% / tastes.  And
 play the track.  Of course it assumes your soundcard is capable, you
 have copy in .asoundrc, and your soundcard can play 24/96kHz.

That I'd not feel acceptable. The ALSA file plugin is, but I remember 
trying that as well and it bombing out on something. Don't remeber what 
anymore and not going to retry right now but I believe it was eventually 
just an mplayer bug that I ran into and me shrugging and telling that 
piece of bleep to go bleep itself.

So thanks, really, but dreadfully sorry, not going to aggrevate myself 
tonight endlessly struggling with the Linux videoscape. Will at some 
other time...

Rene.


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[Alsa-user] Donation Recommendation? - 24-bit sound card

2008-08-21 Thread Grant
I'm going to donate a 24-bit capable sound card to the mpd project to
add 24-bit support.  Can anyone recommend an inexpensive one that is
24-bit capable and PCI, PCIe, or USB?

- Grant

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