[apple-crop] 2. Re: Arctic Apples again - (Craig Tanner)
If my apple trees are close enough to a GMO orchard such that bees carry GMO pollen to my trees, that will contaminate my crop in two ways: 1) if my trees are certified organic, and testing reveals a GMO presence higher than a regulatory threshold (in Europe, .9 %), then my certification for that crop will be revoked. 2) if not organic, and I wish to export to Europe then the apples will be rejected if over .9% However, organic certification for my farm will not be affected so long as I take measures to prevent further contamination after a cooling=off period of 3 years. At present, I do not believe USDA has fixed the threshold for this type of contamination yet, but if Arctics are in the market, they will be obliged to. On Mon, 3/30/15, apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net wrote: Subject: apple-crop Digest, Vol 51, Issue 24 To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Monday, March 30, 2015, 4:31 PM Send apple-crop mailing list submissions to apple-crop@virtualorchard.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to apple-crop-requ...@virtualorchard.net You can reach the person managing the list at apple-crop-ow...@virtualorchard.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than Re: Contents of apple-crop digest... Today's Topics: 1. non-GMO non-browning apples (David Doud) 2. Re: Arctic Apples again - (Craig Tanner) -- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 12:41:42 -0400 From: David Doud david_d...@me.com To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [apple-crop] non-GMO non-browning apples Message-ID: 8e35364e-e8ba-43ce-b4d4-39feb897f...@me.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii If anyone has a need for an apple that doesn't brown, I'd be happy to send a stick or three of 'Sweet Emma', a chance seedling from grandfathers farm - white flesh that doesn't ever even hint of turning brown even while it dries to a crisp - a little flattened, red, 2.75, ripe early Oct, mild sweet crisp like a RD would dream of being - vigorous tree, early blooming, very scab susceptible, doesn't fill bins like Melrose or Mutsu, loses quality in six weeks (would probably respond well to 'Smart-Fresh') - I sell quite a few between Oct 5 and Thanksgiving - No charge - no obligation - David Doud -- Message: 2 Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2015 15:25:06 -0500 From: Craig Tanner cr...@tannersorchard.com To: 'Apple-crop discussion list' apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] Arctic Apples again - Message-ID: B9C45958024149E6BC95EB5CA7D78B52@CraigTannerPC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii GMO apples may contaminate nearby organic and conventional apple orchards and could potentially cause valuable export markets to reject U.S. apples as happened in past when wheat and rice crops were found to be contaminated by GMOs. A - See more at: http://www.foe.org/projects/food-and-technology/genetic-engineering/no-gmo-a pples#sthash.FRll2V3z.dpuf what? how? this statement makes my head spin Craig Tanner Tanners Orchard, Ltd. Speer, IL 309-493-5442 309-493-5741 fax 306-360-5610 cell _ From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of David Doud Sent: Monday, March 30, 2015 11:28 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: [apple-crop] Arctic Apples again - Sorry to beat this, but I think it's in our interest to stay informed - if the powers that be want me to give it a rest, I will - I copy and paste an email that went out to subscribers to Well.org - it was forwarded to me - I am unfamiliar with this organization and a peek at their website doesn't impress and the website itself doesn't have any content about Arctic Apples - I've been made aware of at least one other organization promoting anti-Arctic Apple sentiment - http://www.foe.org/projects/food-and-technology/genetic-engineering/no-gmo-a pples I investigated the claim that McDonald's and Gerber... and it's not as presented - they have 'no plans' because there is no product available to buy, but they have not rejected and Gerber specifically admits and defends using GMO products - Looks like battle lines are being drawn and strategies arctic-ulated - David Doud peach leaf curl spray this week - 2012 on this date was apple full bloom - not at silver tip yet this year, but soon - You're hearing from us because you subscribed via http://vitaloriginswellorgllc.cmail2.com/t/t-l-thbijk-illrihdyd-j/ Well.org. Last year, we released the Origins documentary for free to over
Re: [apple-crop] arctic apples
I was an orchard worker, picking and pruning and teaching others the same, in NH for 30 years. Organic apples were a rarity and certainly not an economic proposition for a grower. Then I discovered wild blueberries and moved to Maine, where organic blueberries are quite profitable and so I became a grower . Oddly enough, most of the retailers I serve would really rather I was not organic, because I get a premium price. But they are willing to pay it for superior service and a guarantee of condition which other growers do not offer. I became orga nic very early in my growing career, only partly as a marketing tool (to those retailers who demanded it) but primarily to avoid having to work in a chemical environment. Imagine my surprise, then, when about 5 years ago Pediatrics published a study by some professors, based on USDA surveys. 1) among all pesticide residues, malathion was present to the largest degree on two crops, strawberries and blueberries. 2) in a random collection of 1000 children whose urine was analyzed, the group which showed above average amounts of malathion metabolite also showed twice the incidence of ADHD.I realize this can not be treated as Gospel, but it certainly makes me feel that my organic certification is not a waste of money. I do plan to write a short educational leaflet setting forth these facts to encourage all my retailers. As for GMOs, I can almost endorse the sentiments of the Cornell prof. My main objection is that the argument in favor of GMOs always boils down to the lack of studies showing any harm from GMOs. The unspoken assumption then becomes that the burden of proof is on the opponents. In my view, that is a false version of the scientific method. Testing of a new GMO would in many cases, if not almost all, require independent study by a multi-discipline group over a period of two or three decades. Nobody wants to do that, or can afford it. Arthur Harvey, Hartford, Maine On Thu, 2/26/15, Ginda Fisher l...@ginda.us wrote: Subject: Re: [apple-crop] arctic apples To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Thursday, February 26, 2015, 7:04 PM On Feb 26, 2015, at 9:53 AM, David Doud wrote: Well, I have been to two social events since the GMO 'Arctic apples' have been in the news - and that is what people want to talk to me about - and pretty much only that... How are you all handling this? My personal opinions aside, I don't want to 'carry water' for these guys - they aren't going to let me grow them even if I wanted to and I don't feel inclined to spend my time and credibility providing them cover and fighting their marketing struggle for them - This is going to be a frequently reoccurring issue this season - I've got an event to go to this afternoon and I am dreading this aspect of it - David Doud grower, IN below 0*F, way behind on pruning I am just a consumer, and don't have to sell apples. But my guess is, if you are fielding this question at parties, that people are just asking you because they are curious, and perceive you as an expert on the subject. If it comes up at parties, I think you can say whatever you want -- between talking about how wonderful the arctic apples will be, or whining about how you aren't going to be able to get them, and then talking about the economics of apple growing, or bemoaning the lack of regulation, or, you know, pretty much anything. If you are asked by a potential customer, I would advise replying something non-commital, like those aren't available to grow, yet, so I haven't researched it, or none of the apples I am selling are GMO. You might want to grow GMO apples a few years down the line, and you might not want to box yourself into an anti-GMO stance. And of course, you don't want to waste your time arguing in favor of a product you don't have. Again, I'm just a consumer. But I don't think you need to engage at all with consumers on the topic if you don't want to. Ginda Fisher buried in snow in eastern MA ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ apple-crop mailing list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Lucky for consumers that USDA publishes residue quantities, because FDA and EPA would never annoy the chemical industry by releasing such info. Anyhow, because of USDA we know that malathion residues and metabolites are more common on blueberries than any other food, according to the USDA report a couple of years back. Pretty good reason to choose organic blueberries. The other agencies love to study the health effects of chemicals one at a time, ignoring the interactions with other chemicals. Beekeepers are beginning to understand the hollowness of those studies. On Sat, 5/3/14, Jon Clements jon.cleme...@umass.edu wrote: Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Saturday, May 3, 2014, 9:32 PM To further add to the discussion: http://www.motherjones.com/tom-philpott/2014/04/europe-just-banned-apples-you-eat And, I find it interesting: Cancer Treatment Center of America advertisement before the video (is everyone seeing that?); and all the talk about browning and apple longevity in the video, anyone heard of Arctic Apples? (I am sure you have.) Also, I am tangentially involved with Eco Apples (http://redtomato.org/ecoapple.php) and this subject has already come up with them. So, yes, people (Whole Foods?) do watch and pay attention. Perception is reality. Lest anyone forget: the apple-crop discussion(s) are permanently archived here http://www.mail-archive.com/apple-crop@virtualorchard.net/ for anyone to see even though they are not subscribers. (If they find it.) I think it is a good thing to have the archive, just keep in mind it is there. I truly hope it does not inhibit discussion. I try to live by the motto if I don't want the whole world to read it, better not put it in an e-mail. JC On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:21 PM, Weinzierl, Richard A weinz...@illinois.edu wrote: Amazing. First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US EPA in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at least attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific evidence … and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to one direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition to the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but that’s why we all should communicate. But … wow … Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of arrogant talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As others have posted … those who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. I’ll probably regret posting this … but I do not understand how their opinions warrant anyone’s attention. Not Faux News, but just as faux. Ugh. Let’s hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I’ll become a retired old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Stephen Jansky Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 6:59 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals The YOUTUBE reaction to American Apples containing DHP Not good press for the U.S. Industry http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo Steve From: con.tr...@ul.ie To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wed, 30 Apr 2014 10:11:27 + Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Hello Mike and all, The backdrop to the Irish opinion was, I believe, that a number of EU countries were more reliant on DPA than some others, and that Ireland, having a small apple industry (but nonetheless one in which about 30% of the fruit could have been DPA treated), was naturally inclined to be positively disposed to its continued use (under considerable lobbying pressure from our own apple growers association, and from some other countries). I do know that strong efforts were made by the task force to fill the supposed data gaps, but in the end they did not win out. So in the end, as you say the MRL was dropped not based on a definitive assessment of risk, but because, as I mentioned, there is a general policy thrust to
Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals
Lucky for consumers that USDA publishes residue quantities, because FDA and EPA would never annoy the chemical industry by releasing such info. Anyhow, because of USDA we know that malathion residues and metabolites are more common on blueberries than any other food, according to the USDA report a couple of years back. Pretty good reason to choose organic blueberries. The other agencies love to study the health effects of chemicals one at a time, ignoring the interactions with other chemicals. Beekeepers are beginning to understand the hollowness of those studies. On Fri, 5/2/14, Mark Helen Angermayer angermay...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals To: Apple-crop discussion list apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Friday, May 2, 2014, 11:04 PM Richard, I may be going on a limb here, but I thought the USDA did the market basket surveys to determine residues on food. I believe the EWG list of the Dirty Dozen comes from the USDA surveys. Are there other surveys done by the FDA? Mark Angermayer On 5/2/14, Weinzierl, Richard A weinz...@illinois.edu wrote: All, To my understanding, Mark has it right. In the US, the US EPA registers and sets tolerances (or MRLs) for pesticides and growth regulator compounds. FDA does market basket surveys and import surveys to determine residues on foods that consumers buy ... and the residues are generally WAY below established tolerances or MRLs (with very few isolated exceptions). But it is indeed the US EPA who makes the regulatory decisions on field uses. And just to be clear ... my rant yesterday was NOT about the discussion that has been ongoing on this list for a couple of days but was directed at the video that Steve Jansky called to our attention ... http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oEh1IbOKRBo. Rick Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 -Original Message- From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Mark Helen Angermayer Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 1:20 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals I meant to type MRL, not MLR. Mark On 5/2/14, Mark Helen Angermayer angermay...@gmail.com wrote: Bill, MLR's are set by the EPA. That's how they determine PHI's. Mark Angermayer Tubby Fruits On 5/2/14, Fleming, William w...@exchange.montana.edu wrote: Am I missing something here? Always thought it was the FDA not the EPA that regulated residues on food. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Lane Corvallis, MT 59828 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of Weinzierl, Richard A Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 7:22 PM To: Apple-crop discussion list Subject: Re: [apple-crop] apples and chemicals Amazing. First, I admit that I usually support new restrictions imposed by the US EPA in response to new tox data or standards because in general one can at least attribute the decisions to people who understand how to weigh scientific evidence ... and I do not expect that they will always agree with me, to one direction or the other. I probably do not agree with industry opposition to the EPA as often as many on this list-serve might think I should, but that's why we all should communicate. But ... wow ... Apparently TYT (the young Turks) feel free to offer compelling opinions without any need to understand the issue in any substantive way. One has to (NOT) love the web. What a bunch of arrogant talking heads. Perhaps they should launch a vendetta on nitrosamines from BBQs as David R. brought up. Or maybe even quit wearing any SYNTHETIC fabrics or burning any hydrocarbon fuels. As others have posted ... those who eat lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, produced conventionally or organically, are the healthiest of all in our societies. I'll probably regret posting this ... but I do not understand how their opinions warrant anyone's attention. Not Faux News, but just as faux. Ugh. Let's hope academic freedom is a real thing, or I'll become a retired old new fruit grower a year or two before I planned to be. Rick Weinzierl Richard Weinzierl Professor and Extension Entomologist IL SARE PDP Coordinator Department of Crop Sciences, University of Illinois S-334 Turner Hall, 1102 S. Goodwin Avenue Urbana, IL 61801 217-244-2126 From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.netmailto:apple-crop-bounces@virtu alorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of
Re: [Apple-crop] low temp pruning
A couple of rules of thumb that were current during my pruning career in NH fifty years ago: 1) Big old trees can be pruned any time. Trees younger than 10 or 15 years should be left alone until after Jan. 1, some said Jan. 10. Wound healing is affected chiefly by making sure the stub is not too long or too short, and of course a clean cut. No dressing. --- On Wed, 2/2/11, Fleming, William w...@montana.edu wrote: From: Fleming, William w...@montana.edu Subject: Re: [Apple-crop] low temp pruning To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 5:56 PM Tom, all that I’ve ever heard is that you must let the trees reach full dormancy before pruning especially if making big flush to the trunk cuts. First week of December is almost always a safe time to start. I know some growers will tell their pruning crews that damage occurs if they prune when the temp is below a certain point but I think that’s just an excuse to keep them from working when it’s too cold and their productivity is impaired. Bill Fleming Montana State University Western Ag Research Center 580 Quast Ln Corvallis, Montana From: apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net [mailto:apple-crop-boun...@virtualorchard.net] On Behalf Of KD LINNEY Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 12:35 PM To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Subject: [Apple-crop] low temp pruning Is there research or even anecdotal evidence that suggests a fairly definite low temperature at which to cease pruning apple or other fruit trees in consideration of impaired wound healing or any other potential tissue damage? I'm thinking of mid-winter when trees are still quite dormant, but also during cold snaps later in the season. Thanks. Tom Moss Rollins, Montana -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ Apple-crop mailing list Apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop ___ Apple-crop mailing list Apple-crop@virtualorchard.net http://virtualorchard.net/mailman/listinfo/apple-crop
Re: Apple-Crop: treatments vs genetic traits
From my limited experience it appears that finding varieties with resistant traits is a more promising way to pursue compared with treatments. It is well known that certain strains of Baldwin are relatively immune to scab---why cannot this genetic trait be worked into other varieties. Also, we have a local seedling here in western Maine which not only resists freezing until the first week of November---and keeps well---but also sheds insect-damaged apples so that only perfect ones mature. Seems like characteristics that would be useful elsewhere. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers, working with the so-called Organic Trade Association.This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Thu, 2/11/10, Dave Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu wrote: From: Dave Rosenberger da...@cornell.edu Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Attaching trees to trellis To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Thursday, February 11, 2010, 4:41 PM Hello, Ricardo -- First, it would be helpful to know in what geographic area and/or climatic region you wish to grow organic fruit. Options vary based on location, with disease control being MUCH simpler in arid production areas than in warm and humid production areas. I'm not certain that any pathologists have focused efforts on DISCOVERY of new products for organic tree fruit production. Since the 1950's, pesticide discovery has been mostly left to commercial enterprises because university scientists are poorly equipped to register and commercialize new products. Over the past 20 years, I am aware of perhaps a half dozen pathologists who have attempted to commercialize biocontrols, and most of these efforts have either gotten bogged down prior to commercialization or the final products were of such limited usefulness that they soon disappeared. However, I and several other pathologists at land grant institutions in the northeastern US have been EVALUATING new products for organic production over the past 15 years. Generally, we have looked at any promising candidates that gained EPA registrations, although I'm certain that there are some things that no one has yet evaluated because the manufacturers have been unable to provide even a shred of evidence or logic as to why their products should work. Some of these university evaluations have been done in certified organic orchards and some have been done via replicated plot studies within larger trials that included other non-organic pesticides. I think we all know that sulfur, copper, and lime-sulfur are effective against various diseases on tree fruit, and OMRI-approved formulations of these old stand-bys are available. Some other OMRI approved products may have reasonable activity against powdery mildews, but so does sulfur. Furthermore, mildews are usually only a minor part of the total disease picture for most tree fruit crops. Although there is a lot of advertising and hype about biocontrols and new organically acceptable products that will control fungal diseases, the simple fact is that we still have not identified any organically-acceptable fungicides are consistently effective for protecting apple leaves and fruit from fungal diseases (i.e., that work better than copper, sulfur, or lime-sulfur). I'm less familiar with recent research on stone fruits, but I believe that the same statement would apply. I know that some products such as Serenade are being used commercially, but most growers I speak to about these products either have no evidence of effectiveness (i.e., no controlled comparisons) or they admit that they include the biofungicides just to mollify certifying agencies even though they recognize that these products are relatively ineffective. If other readers have opinions and evidence that contradicts my perspectives, I'd certainly be interested in hearing about it. Is anyone aware of plant pathologists who may be working on the development of fungicides suitable for organic production of tree fruits? Thank you Ricardo Menendez -- ** Dave Rosenberger Professor of Plant Pathology Office: 845-691-7231 Cornell University's Hudson Valley Lab Fax: 845-691-2719 P.O. Box 727, Highland, NY 12528 Cell: 845-594-3060 http://www.nysaes.cornell.edu/pp/faculty/rosenberger/ -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the
Re: Apple-Crop: Ethryl
Here in Oxford County (Maine) we had 25 below last week. Of course it's a matter of local pride to report the lowest, or highest temp on a particular day. I have about 10 peaches I grafted from a chance seedling that has good features. Not sure how they like these temps. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw..org --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net wrote: From: Jill Kelly kelly...@metrocast.net Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Ethryl To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 2:09 PM Everyone seems to have a what's in it for me attitude but not much of what can I/we do. Too much of the economy running through the government makes me nervous. We have a market economy which may be easier to muck-up than fix-up. If markets are allowed to work(with adequate regulation) our economy and society will be stronger. Competion (with adequate regulation) makes us stronger. Anyone want to buy some Mac's? It is snowing today in Maine and after this storm we should have about 3 feet on the ground. Last week we had -18 and -23 and I was wondering about my peaches. Thank goodness that's only -7 and -10 F. Too close for comfort. Art Kelly - Original Message - From: Matt McCallum To: Apple-Crop Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 11:21 AM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Ethryl Haven't seen any talk on a bail out for apple growers, however they are about to pass the biggest pork filled bail out bill ever. It would be nice to spray a little ethryl on the bill to thin it down! On Jan 28, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Con.Traas wrote: Hello all, I hope that I have not been kicked off apple crop for bad behaviour. I have not seen any posts in a little while. In the past few weeks I have been analysing results of farm-scale trials on the use of post-blossom ethryl to cause thinning in apples. The results seem to be very variable, depending on variety, with Alkmene and Bramley’s practically unaffected, and Katja, Jonagored and Elstar dropping a lot of apples, but with little positive effect on fruit size. As this is my first year trying this chemical, I would be interested in any observations. Con Traas Cahir Ireland PS. Congratulations to the US readers on your new President. Do you expect any effects on pomology? -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: Ethryl
Although it is now 50 years back, I seem to recall that ethrel was used on McIntosh crops in NH around the first week of September, to cause premature reddening---but also premature drop if they were not picked very soon. Also, very poor shelf life. --- On Wed, 1/28/09, Harold J. Larsen harold.lar...@colostate.edu wrote: From: Harold J. Larsen harold.lar...@colostate.edu Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Ethryl To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wednesday, January 28, 2009, 7:10 PM Interesting variation on spelling of the material. Here it is spelled Ethrel. To my understanding, its use here in Colorado is more to enhance return bloom (I think by enhancing thinning in conjunction w/ other thinners prior to flower initiation -- but I could easily be wrong on that). Harold L. -- Dr. Harold Larsen, Interim Manager - WCRC Res. Pathologist Ext. Fruit Dis. Specialist Colo. St. Univ., WCRC - Orchard Mesa 3168 B 1/2 Road Grand Junction, CO 81503-9621 Ph: (970) 434-3264, x-205 FAX: (970) 434-1035 EMail: harold.lar...@colostate.edu Con.Traas wrote: Hello all, I hope that I have not been kicked off apple crop for bad behaviour. I have not seen any posts in a little while. In the past few weeks I have been analysing results of farm-scale trials on the use of post-blossom ethryl to cause thinning in apples. The results seem to be very variable, depending on variety, with Alkmene and Bramley’s practically unaffected, and Katja, Jonagored and Elstar dropping a lot of apples, but with little positive effect on fruit size. As this is my first year trying this chemical, I would be interested in any observations. Con Traas Cahir Ireland PS. Congratulations to the US readers on your new President. Do you expect any effects on pomology? -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements webmas...@virtualorchard.net. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts
yes On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Mon, 9/15/08, Jill Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jill Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Monday, September 15, 2008, 8:31 AM Thanks Arthur, Is that the blade Jock refers to as the Narrow Smoothie. Arthur Kelly - Original Message - From: Arthur Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 3:22 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts Yes, the blades for the Wheeler saw are $3 each (payment with order), shipping free. I won't have time to fill the order until October 15 or so. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Sat, 9/13/08, Jill Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jill Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 10:12 PM Arthur, Do you still make the pruning saw blades? They were great. Art Kelly - Original Message - From: Arthur Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts Hi, Sam. We still remember fondly our work at your orchard. Now totally involved with wild blueberries in Maine, with a few peaches coming along. Arthur Elizabeth On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Sam Nassar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sam Nassar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 4:27 PM I would like to ask if anyone has a discounted source for Woods mower parts? Thankyou, Sam Nassar Apple Acres, Windham, NH -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts
Yes, the blades for the Wheeler saw are $3 each (payment with order), shipping free. I won't have time to fill the order until October 15 or so. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Sat, 9/13/08, Jill Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Jill Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Saturday, September 13, 2008, 10:12 PM Arthur, Do you still make the pruning saw blades? They were great. Art Kelly - Original Message - From: Arthur Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2008 7:14 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts Hi, Sam. We still remember fondly our work at your orchard. Now totally involved with wild blueberries in Maine, with a few peaches coming along. Arthur Elizabeth On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Sam Nassar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sam Nassar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 4:27 PM I would like to ask if anyone has a discounted source for Woods mower parts? Thankyou, Sam Nassar Apple Acres, Windham, NH -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts
Hi, Sam. We still remember fondly our work at your orchard. Now totally involved with wild blueberries in Maine, with a few peaches coming along. Arthur Elizabeth On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Wed, 9/10/08, Sam Nassar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Sam Nassar [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Apple-Crop: Woods mower parts To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Wednesday, September 10, 2008, 4:27 PM I would like to ask if anyone has a discounted source for Woods mower parts? Thankyou, Sam Nassar Apple Acres, Windham, NH -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own
I would not let the public use ladders, especially if you supplied the ladder. If you did, any liability resulting would fall on you. And the chance of accidents is pretty high. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- On Sun, 7/6/08, robert kuljis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: robert kuljis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: ladders in pick your own To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 12:06 PM I would not allow it.. Have not had any claims, but a couple of workers fell off the ladder on there first day... ONe of them said it hurt pretty bad, and he broke a good sized branch, but was not injured.. Some people are just not that bright, or careful, and accidents happen anyways I would talk to a lawyer if you really wanted to do it and see if you can have the pickers sign something saying they are in the ladder at there own risk... Insurance can go up quite a bit with even one claim Robert Kuljis Thomas Paine Farms Kings Valley OR On Saturday, July 5, 2008, at 10:59 PM, Tommy and Sandy wrote: We are allowing people to pick their own apples for the last couple of years. We didn't start out as a pick your own orchard and we have larger trees, 111, 7, and some larger 26's. In the past we have not allowed ladders or climbing trees. I was wondering if any other pick your own orchards allowed ladders either supplying them to people or allowing them to bring their own. Also if ladders are allowed how much more insurance do you have to carry. Has anyone had any bad claims because of ladders. Thanks for responding. Tommy Bruguiere Dickie Bros. Orchard Roseland, Va To some degree it matters who's in office, but it matters more how much pressure they're under from the public. Noam Chomsky -- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep
I recall that too. The problem was, all those early-picked apples reached consumers who were disappointed because they expected a mature apple and they got cardboard. In New England, Alar caused the Mcntosh harvest to begin a week earlier than before. --- Philip Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I seem to recall being able to pick apples later rather than sooner when using Alar. Philip Smith - Original Message - From: Arthur Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2007 3:59 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep Alar retarded internal maturity, while not retarding color formation. It therefore increased storage life and allowed apples to be picked sooner. --- Philip Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Actually, I always thought Alar allowed us to present a better product to the consumer for a longer period. I can't figure out how it could have resulted in cardboard. I don't think it led us to harvest immature fruit. My experience is not as a direct marketer, so perhaps my point of reference makes a difference. Philip Smith - Original Message - From: Arthur Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:18 AM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep A lot depends on whether you think as a consumer or producer. Of course the producers loved Alar because it gave apples that looked ripe but stored longer. The consumers expected a ripe apple but got cardboard. This led to increased demand for Grannies from elsewhere. --- Philip Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That doesn't sound like the Alar that I knew and loved. Philip Smith - Original Message - From: Arthur Harvey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:01 PM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep You are certainly correct about what happens in Washington, as a rule. But my opinion is that banning Alar was a benefit to the industry, for it stopped the sale of immature, inferior apples to the public. Maybe that was not the intent, but it was the result. --- George M. Greene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All: Dr. David Acheson, FDA's new Assistant Commissioner for Food Protection may well be both a very intelligent medical professional and a practical realist BUT practical realists and good scientists don't always carry the day in DC. If there is 1 or more outbreaks of E.coli 0157:H7 tragedies Dr. Acheson probably not be able to convince others that onerous rules are not needed. The impact of a couple testifying about the death of a beautiful 3 or 4 year-old young girl will be impossible for agriculture to counter. Don't forget the big A--- deal a few years ago. Reason does not always prevail! Best regards, George -- George M. Greene II 68 Willow Lane Wiscasset, ME 04578 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 207-882-8074 --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content
Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep
You are certainly correct about what happens in Washington, as a rule. But my opinion is that banning Alar was a benefit to the industry, for it stopped the sale of immature, inferior apples to the public. Maybe that was not the intent, but it was the result. --- George M. Greene [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi All: Dr. David Acheson, FDA's new Assistant Commissioner for Food Protection may well be both a very intelligent medical professional and a practical realist BUT practical realists and good scientists don't always carry the day in DC. If there is 1 or more outbreaks of E.coli 0157:H7 tragedies Dr. Acheson probably not be able to convince others that onerous rules are not needed. The impact of a couple testifying about the death of a beautiful 3 or 4 year-old young girl will be impossible for agriculture to counter. Don't forget the big A--- deal a few years ago. Reason does not always prevail! Best regards, George -- George M. Greene II 68 Willow Lane Wiscasset, ME 04578 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 207-882-8074 --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content. On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep
This is not correct. The example given of animals in orchards during the fall, does not violate organic rules. Many, if not most, organic farmers in Maine apply manure in the fall in order to avoid the cumbersome composting rules. I know, because I inspect those farms for a certifier. --- Smith, Tim [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello apple-croppers, There is specific language in the organic rules, and many import/export agreements forbidding the use of uncomposted animal poo as a fertilizer. I don't believe the direct deposit of the animal byproducts would be considered as o.k. You may not wish to join in with the system that sets these conditions, but if you direct market, it would be best if you didn't let your customers see the sheep in the orchard. It just doesn't look very clean, if you catch my drift. Unless you plan to utilize diapers on the various animals that may graze under/in your trees, it seems that the market would at least be nervous about possible E. coli issues. I don't believe orchards and livestock have ever really been really compatible, and may be even less so now. It sounds like such a good idea in the books, but chickens and goats (sheep, hamsters, cattle, warthogs, etc.) never really add much to the otherwise wholesome image of low-impact fruit production. Timothy J. Smith WSU Extension, Chelan, Douglas Okanogan Counties -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bill Howell Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 10:10 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed - orchards and sheep Several years ago we worked with Linda Hardesty of WSU's Department of Natural Resource Sciences on a LISA grant to study the potential of using sheep to control under story growth in a mature cherry orchard. The pasture treatments were - 1. what existed naturally, 2. a planted mixture of orchard grass and Bird's foot trefoil. Grazed and non-grazed plots were set up for each treatment. You should contact Linda ([EMAIL PROTECTED] ) for more advice on forage for sheep in an orchard setting for Western Washington. A larger part of the experiment for us was convincing sheep not to eat cherry foliage. Those efforts included barriers (movable pens, fencing, head elevation restrictors for the sheep) and aversion training (similar to what some alcoholics might endure to wean themselves from the bottle). We only had problems with debarking when the animals were allowed to stay in the orchard for extended periods of time. It was best only to allow them in the orchard for short feeding cycles. Bedding down was best allowed in a nearby pen. All in all, it was a very interesting study. However, in the end I found the effort more than the wool and meat were worth. I valued my trees as significantly more important than the small livestock operation. Someone else might figure out a better way. Linda tells me she knows of a few growers who allow sheepherders to sweep their flocks through large orchards in the fall to clean up weeds, leaves and fruit drops. Bill Howell Yakima Valley, WA - Original Message - From: Stina Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Apple-Crop apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Saturday, January 03, 1970 3:54 AM Subject: Re: Apple-Crop: Referral needed I tried sheep under my full sized pear trees, and ended up having to put fences around each tree as the sheep were climbing up in the tree to eat the young fruit and the leaves. I pulled the sheep before they could girdle the bark. I got mixed results as far as mowing, and as I am an orchardist, not a livestockist, the sheep were small when they went to slaughter. Maybe others have had better results, but I found it cheaper and easier to buy lamb from my neighbor, and continue to use my mower in the orchard. Best of luck. Stina Booth Booth Canyon Orchard Twisp, Washington On Friday, June 22, 2007, at 08:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Listers: Can anyone refer me to a turf specialist in USDA Extension so that I can find these answers? There was a USDA SARE project completed a number of years ago which demonstrated the potential to take income from two farm enterprises: Trellised tree fruit grown over a grass orchard floor grazed by Sheep. Sounds impossible, I know, but it was successful as well as organic, and it reduced floor maintenance considerably. What I would like to know is what was/were the grass(es) used. Here is why. Sheep are vulnerable to endophyte toxicity which is common in some grass species, therefore the species/varieties of grasses must be endophyte free. I suspect the answer will be one or more of the rye grasses which I understand are used for grazing in New Zealand. It needs also to be hardy in Zone 6-7. I would also hope that any such endophyte free
Re: Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees
This may not be helpful, but recently I came across a new book, The Cure for All Diseases. Quite a claim, right? Well, the author (a Canadian) sets forth the cause of all chronic disease as either pollution or parasites. The cure is to first locate the specific cause by means of its identified specific radio frequency, then to eliminate it by various non-invasive measures such as sanitation, and even counter-radio waves at voltages less than 10. There are a lot more parasites in our bodies than you might imagine, including the liver fluke which is about 3/4 of a inch long and related to all cancers that Clark has encountered. The interesting thing about Clark's thesis is that nothing is to be taken on faith; every point can be duplicated and proven (or disproven) by anyone with a minimal understanding of radio frequencies. --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This may not be helpful, but in the human population, when the immune system is overwhelmed by tiny amounts of multiple toxins the body's defenses give up and then we come down with all kinds of ailments...so the death certificate might read death was caused by infection, but the cause was lack of immunity due to all the cumulative toxic insults from all sources in the local environment. We die of something, or many things, but the proximate cause was not so obvious. The best example I can think of is cancer in people. We get cancer because of a failure of the immune system and so we may die of cancer, but the real cause remains a mystery. Simpler still, when we get a headache, we treat with aspirin, and the pain goes away, without our actually getting at the cause of that headache. So, the bee problem is just the end product of what is most likely to be multiple poisons,or toxins that are in the locale where there is bee death. We will likely have to suffer giant economic losses before any of the talking heads on Capitol Hill will fund the appropriate research. Hang on guys. Karl W. Olson, D.M.D. PS they aren't looking in the right places for people diseases either, if that makes you feel better. :( -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net Sent: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:28 AM Subject: RE: Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees maybe the chemical sprays are catching up with us and the bees Jim F.NY state -Original Message- From: apple-crop@virtualorchard.net [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Con.Traas Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2007 8:12 AM To: Apple-Crop Subject: Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees Has there been any comment among apple growers in the US on the continuing sharp decline in bee numbers? I read the following recently, and believe that a few parts of Europe are beginning to see localised colony collapses also. Since last November, the US has seen a decline in bee populations so dramatic that it eclipses all previous incidences of mass mortality. Beekeepers on the east coast of the United States complain that they have lost more than 70 percent of their stock since late last year, while the west coast has seen a decline of up to 60 percent. In an article in its business section in late February, the New York Times calculated the damage US agriculture would suffer if bees died out. Experts at Cornell University in upstate New York have estimated the value bees generate -- by pollinating fruit and vegetable plants, almond trees and animal feed like clover -- at more than $14 billion. Scientists call the mysterious phenomenon Colony Collapse Disorder (CCD), and it is fast turning into a national catastrophe of sorts. A number of universities and government agencies have formed a CCD Working Group to search for the causes of the calamity, but have so far come up empty-handed. But, like Dennis vanEngelsdorp, an apiarist with the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture, they are already referring to the problem as a potential AIDS for the bee industry. One thing is certain: Millions of bees have simply vanished. In most cases, all that's left in the hives are the doomed offspring. But dead bees are nowhere to be found -- neither in nor anywhere close to the hives. Diana Cox-Foster, a member of the CCD Working Group, told The Independent that researchers were extremely alarmed, adding that the crisis has the potential to devastate the US beekeeping industry. It is particularly worrisome, she said, that the bees' death is accompanied by a set of symptoms which does not seem to match anything in the literature. In many cases, scientists have found evidence of almost all known bee viruses in the few surviving bees found in the hives after most have disappeared. Some had five or six infections at the same time and were infested with fungi -- a sign, experts say, that the insects' immune system may have collapsed. The
RE: Apple-Crop: Pollinating bees
There are a few of us small beekeepers who use no treatments on their hives. I have 6. It will be interesting to see if we, as a group, have the same degree of loss as the rest of the industry. One guy in Vermont has around 200 hives. Of course he does not move them around the country. --- Kim Flottum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have been a part of this group almost from the beginning, though only a listener, not a contributor. There is additional and updated information on this disorder on the Maarec site mentioned, and more press than believable has been published about the problem. There is additional information, and a survey at www.beesurvey.com. This has escalated to the point that this morning there was a House hearing on the subject held by the USDA Subcommittee on Horticulture and specialtiy crops, with USDA and University researchers and several commercial beekeepers testifying. This is, indeed, a situation to be aware of if you are in the business of hiring honey bees for pollination in the spring. I suspect that the availabilty of honey bee colonies for pollination this spring will be reduced, and the cost for those available will increase. Moreover, I suspect that pollination contract obligations will change this year. The east coast beekeepers, particularly, have been hard hit with this (though midwest and west coast beekeepers are almost as affected...it has been recorded in over 24 states), primarily by migratory beekeepers who winter down south. However, beekeepers in the north are just now finding out how well their bees overwintered, and the situation will, at the very best, remain bad. It may become worse. There are several suspects in this case...paracitic mites, viruses, migratory stress, a new disease from Europe, a new, as-of-yet unknown pathogen, and pesticides. Pesitcides, especially sublethal amounts of systmeic pesticides from outside the hive that are used on most vegetable and tree fruit crops got a lot of attention this morning at the hearing. Some beekeepers are convinced this is a serious problem for their bees, but others aren't so sure. And researchers haven't been able to tell. In any event, apple growers and beekeepers would do well to discuss pesticide use in apples before and during pollination this year - before bees move into orchards. Beekeepers are worried. Just so you know. Kim Flottum Editor, BeeCulture 623 West Liberty Street Medina, Ohio 44256 V - 800.289.7668 Ext 3214 Fax - 330.725.5624 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.BeeCulture.com On another topic, the federal law governing organic foods was recently amended by lobbyists hired by some manufacturers. This will allow synthetic ingredients to be added to organic-labeled foods. If this is important to you, please visit my website, www.RestoreOrganicLaw.org --- The 'Apple-Crop' LISTSERV is sponsored by the Virtual Orchard http://www.virtualorchard.net and managed by Win Cowgill and Jon Clements [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Apple-Crop is not moderated. Therefore, the statements do not represent official opinions and the Virtual Orchard takes no responsibility for the content.
RE: Apple-Crop: Time article (More on same)
I wouldn't advocate always following intuition. We also have brains to integrate our experience and reason with intuition. But when faced with extravagant claims by GMO people, that there is little or no risk---well, intuition can be useful here. As for organic food tasting better---if it doesn't, I am usually reluctant to pay the premium. True, apples are hard to compare because of different varieties, soils, maturity, etc. In general, I cannot say that organic apples taste better, but I usually buy them anyway because of my long years working in orchards where co-workers were sickened by Guthion or other stuff. I guess this is just a personal fluke of mine. And of course organic apples will not have Alar used which degraded the flavor, or whatver they are using nowadays. --- Steve Demuth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Arthur, In fact, I buy organic for two reasons: 1. The local coop where I buy most of the food I buy, preferentially stocks organic. 2. The local growers whose overall approach to horticulturea and agriculture I most admire have chose to be organic certified. I choose the coop because I admire and very much want to support their business model, and dedication to supporting local producers. Both from a capital and a cash flow perspective, I'd rather my money stay local when possible. I choose to support local growers, even though I disagree with the organic movement as a whole, for the same reason. I have seen no convincing evidence, and certainly cannot vouch by my own experience, for the notion that organic is either better for me, or tastes better than responsibly raised non-organic produce. I can tell the difference between an apple that was picked yesterday at just the right degree of ripeness, and one that has hung on the tree for 2 days too long in a blind test, but I can't tell the difference between my friends' organic apples and mine that have received a small amount of chemical fertilizer, and non-certifiable spray or two blind or otherwise. As for intuition: I don't trust mine to give the right answer to big, complex questions. My intuition would easily convince me that CO2 from the gasoline I burn cannot possibly be damaging something as big as the global atmosphere. The science is pretty compelling that it is. My intuition makes me feel safer in my family car than in the back seat of a jetliner, and safer in the front seat of the jetliner than in the back; both conclusions are demonstrably wrong. Closer to home on the food front, my intuition (or instinct - which is a variety of the same) tells me to eat sweet, greasy foods; science again demonstrates that is not the right choice. Science can of course be wrong as well, but at least it self-consciously tries to correct its errors. Intuition just chugs along in a self-satisfied fashion. At 08:21 AM 3/17/2007, you wrote: Well, I share the reason you have elicited from various people as to why they buy organic---I think it's healthier. In a similar way, I avoid foods that smell bad, even without scientific proof that they are poisonous. And even though some bad-smelling foods are actually ok. So when someone says GMO's are safe because no proof to the contrary has been scientifically established---well, I use my intuition which tells me that messing with the natural genetic order of things could be very risky, especially without generations of study. And this argument about the lack of scientific proof making them safe, is made even by scientists who should know better. Which makes me skeptical about the authority of scientists. We all, scientists or not, have to proceed on the best wisdom we have at the moment. Apparently you do that too, as you buy some organic foods. Or is it just because they taste better? --- Steve Demuth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Risk analyses are routinely made for all sorts of situations on things that haven't even been done yet; I think it hardly stretches the imagination to do it on technologies that have been studied for a couple of decades. That not enough studies are being done is due to bad policy choices by regulators, and unscrupulous manipulation of the policy process by large agri-business, neither of which do I approve. But it's also because there are few voices of reason pushing for good analysis: while agri-business has taken a blunt force approach to pushing GMOs into the food chain, the organic movement has stuck it's head in the sand and rejected the science without analysis. More shame on both of them, if you ask me, but hardly a reason to reject out of hand the notion of using the technology. As for consumer rejection: you're probably right, but only because the scare tactics of an anti-science movement has created the mindset for that rejection. Just as earlier posters have argued
