Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephan Weinberger Sent: 29 July 2008 15:26 To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk Am Freitag, 25. Juli 2008 18:54 schrieb Al Baker: This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of software testing. Even if a company (or OS developer) implements automatic tests that cover each and every existing functionality this does NOT automatically ensure, that the existing functionalty works together well with new features. Nor does it ensure that existing code does work as intended under NEW circumstances. Testing (and I mean ANY form of testing, be it automatic or manual) can NEVER ensure the abscence of bugs! Additionally: Companies will never even atempt to find any bug. They will always only try to find as many bugs necessary to ensure that the cost of maintenance, bug-fixing, compensations and possibly loss of prestige does not exceed the cost of testing. Anything else would be financial loss. -- Stephan Weinberger Anyone who has watched the OSS vs Commercial Software debate over the last few years knows that OSS has turned the entire support model on its head and has questioned the rationale for paying huge sums for support so much so that even the commercial software companies have set up OSS-style communities to provide support for their products. I can tell you that you will most likely get an Asterisk bug fix before you get a CCM bug fix. As for bugs, perhaps you should check the list of known issues with CCM and compare with the list of bugs in Asterisk. All software has bugs, you just don't see a lot of people trying to get CCM to do things it wasn't designed for. - Femi ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Am Freitag, 25. Juli 2008 18:54 schrieb Al Baker: This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of software testing. Even if a company (or OS developer) implements automatic tests that cover each and every existing functionality this does NOT automatically ensure, that the existing functionalty works together well with new features. Nor does it ensure that existing code does work as intended under NEW circumstances. Testing (and I mean ANY form of testing, be it automatic or manual) can NEVER ensure the abscence of bugs! Additionally: Companies will never even atempt to find any bug. They will always only try to find as many bugs necessary to ensure that the cost of maintenance, bug-fixing, compensations and possibly loss of prestige does not exceed the cost of testing. Anything else would be financial loss. -- Stephan Weinberger ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Comments inline Al lists wrote: | I agree, No manager gets fired even if a Cisco Call Manager goes south. | that's not the case with Asterisk. | With limited experience that i have with both, i hit more bugs using | Asterisk than a CCM, but this is not relevant to your final answer. I use both on a managed service provider level and I will say the following, CCM has more issues nowadays then Asterisk did pre 1.4 and to be honest, it all depends on your implementations of Asterisk as does CCM. There are a lot of factors to weigh in here on which of the two is the cheaper solution, as for the *best* solution, here is a hint... The best solution is the one that works for you. | If you can afford CCM, and you can live with less flexibility and | features, i would choose Cisco. Flexibility features... Flexibility features are pre-defined in CCM whereas Asterisk, you build them on your own. Each business and usage of any of the two PBX's are going to differ across the board so its an apples and oranges question. I know from fact depending on who you are, you can get Cisco to bounce on features if your mouth and wallet are big enough and you know who to talk to. | If you prefer to have cheaper solution and more features and | flexibility, Asterisk is good. Dual edged sword here. You can craft some pretty cool stuff with both PBX's, with Asterisk obviously being open source allows for this, with CCM you don't necessarily have to depend on Cisco dragging their feet, if you're competent enough to do something you will do it on ANY PBX. Just takes some ingenuity. | With Cisco, everything is cisco, handsets are designed for Cisco, it | connects to Exchange much more in depth than even microsoft response point. | unlike Asterisk, unfortunately exchange integration is not something you | may get in close future and that can be a deal breaker for some | companies, but you dont pay per seat license. | and so on. | One has to understand business in general to understand why companies with even the geekiest in house tech shops STILL would go with CCM over Asterisk and this was answered previously so here is my two cents on this... Company A is a financial powerhouse, they have 30k users spread over 10 offices around the world. Their earnings were 500,000,000.00 a year or roughly $951.29 every minute. In choosing their PBX they took into account the cost of the phones, support, business continuity, etc. and so the story goes... Now ask yourself in all honesty here... In choosing Cisco, I know for a fact I can call up Cisco's TAC because I'm paying for it, versus - hoping my geeky staff can find a fix, wait, let me chime in for Digium's... Digium guys are great, I've dealt with them in all sorts of capacity ranging from idle banter with Mark Spencer from time to time. Can I be certain for my money (where downtime = 951.29 per minute) that I will be 1) able to have a replacement shipped right now by say a partner with Digium. If I needed someone ON SITE right now, will Digium take the necessary steps to accomplish this. Be honest about this answer, if your tail is on the line as an engineer which will you feel more secure in choosing. Business is nothing more then business and managers - even the geekiest ones - have to place personal preferences aside when it comes to situations like this (CCM vs. Asterisk). Deploying IP PBX's which we often manage here is something we do far too many times I'd care to count in a year. Our choices are based on a lot of factors and we're huge on Asterisk, but there have been plenty of times we chose not to deal with issues surrounding Asterisk that have arisen previously. For example, SoHo company, 10 - 50 users... Right now I would deploy PBXnSIP over Asterisk whereas for say 100 - 300 I would choose Asterisk. Anything over the 300 range, I'm leaning towards a vendor I know I can ream over the phne if I need to. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBSInanYOeOV2sx4+mAQLiqxAAppI+qn1fIAJJ8uQyixcbD6aeotovs2ql Cln2f3/D7r4EM96Cf51I1SxRRtnQVu6SVz6qqlnI4qQ4i2VKO3yGZuIZDPNePwty L15XJCMoICH7GEJeLQaJhfpVc70LI7qbR3ass3QKvfuceqBbonxNI6gLt7pmTJdP 815ZPPzN1pW0kp40Dmn3g9LS8FfY4jU7dPj3RBdpN7LW+TWfCZ8MBm0sbbDfAg2H Yc+We7BGiBtjO9BIkRYP/E25GRSBEy9WzcMpW7d9XhTUD/g5fHFIoSK8sqU2PyBh xA+HLKCZWCx/WmypSuHOApXT0QZrcu4fnh0pMRwdUcdOuO2BEVjH7UWUlxkemdvU MQ96iS4jTom/U9AM+twZKELX6ZhSuNq2f2AzP2ZyNpH7c/AOuB9bAh/+HBIsT3+X zhI0Bbn6OR5Z94z8zOfNlBl3IYVLWzzNR1eXA2W2HGg+AFqA+JV45EVJfBEyy2fL BMCLORnVS+l1Jr1O3x//hCZU8Xg4dQTEa2RWG9k9ZVBx6qbaKc6P9PORBB0l049b 5qSps4JLML98ya7FDwRBsKsJjYg/v03+3wLIUt6TccysF1UJDhDmAmfJZYlEGJWO GT5Vk9fkvE/pQ747tWhbIxFkP7kFkE8vFdDD8JO9+s/+kHFu076I1XUfT//WGj1x tcXRj30PQlE= =A81v -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 -
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Quote Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. Further, there is mandatory soak-testing for all new software. Sorry, anyone who wants to compare Professional TELCO GRADE software development with Open Source is just Completely and Totally freakin clueless. Alex Balashov wrote: T G wrote: I'm a CCIE and CCVP. I have worked in the Cisco TSBU on both CCM and Telepresence systems I have two IP patents for the VoiP Lite protocols and have been designing and building OSS IPBXs for companies including Google going back to 2001. I'm not mentioning any of that to be jerk I mentioned it to say I'm as qualified as anyone to to compare the CCM and OSS servers. The only fair way to compare the two is a list of weights features, for example if cost is your biggest feature then OSS is better, if support is your biggest feature than Cisco wins. When a customer is comparing the costly (TCO) and best supported systems in the world with hundreds of thousands installed systems for the large global companies on the planted backed by 54,000 employees and over $25b in the bank vs, a FREE system with one layer of support maybe two layers of support, the features don't even come in the evaluation in my opinion. I once asked a manager why did you buy the CCM and he said no one ever got fired for buying Cisco if anything wrong, If push the OSS and it goes I could loose my job. I would get a list of the important features, because there is no answer to your question of which is better. Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. Depending on how critical the bugs or other support exigencies, the TCO can be driven way up. Except with the OSS community, you report the bug, and usually get a quick fix - even if it's a significant issue for you, not necessarily most of the installed base. If by chance that proves not to be the case, the source code is available, and you can fix it yourself. With Cisco, you pay for expensive support and get to file some complaint with the TAC. Yay. There are many, many angles from which onec an look at this in one's TCO / OPEX formula. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Al Baker a écrit : Quote Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. So every professional software is now free of bug ?? And every professional team that build thoses software are perfect people ??? And every automated process made to validate thoses software are so complete that nothing is left out Well that doesn't explain the vast quantity of bug fixed in every Cisco IOS release, or even the vastly unfinished CRS-1 product from ... cisco... Further, there is mandatory soak-testing for all new software. Sorry, anyone who wants to compare Professional TELCO GRADE software development with Open Source is just Completely and Totally freakin clueless. Yes, so professional telco grade doesn't have bug fix release ?? -- Benoit begin:vcard fn:Benoit Plessis n:Plessis;Benoit email;internet:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tel;home:+33 9 52 49 25 06 tel;cell:+33 6 77 42 78 32 x-mozilla-html:FALSE version:2.1 end:vcard ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Al Baker wrote: Quote Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. Further, there is mandatory soak-testing for all new software. Sorry, anyone who wants to compare Professional TELCO GRADE software development with Open Source is just Completely and Totally freakin clueless. I don't know where you got this idea but I've worked in the telco grade equipment business for years and I can assure you that I've seen bug riddled, jaw dropping releases that were borderline pathetic. Besides Benoit's examples of the CSR-1 and IOS releases, ask anyone that had the pleasure of using Cisco's early CCM releases (iirc those still ran on Windows). Maybe this comes as a shock but many vendors actually use their customers as a testing platform. They sell them stuff that has some, more or many bugs and fix stuff moving forward. They might even charge their customers for the latest releases with the bug fixes. Check out the changelogs of Cisco SIP firmware releases which you can only get legally when you pay for a SmartNet contract. A reason one might *think* that vendors have this elaborate development and testing methodology in place and that their stuff rocks in the stability and no-bugs-found-here department is to give oneself some piece of mind over the crapload of money forked over for the product and another crapload of money for the support contract/SLA. Not sure what the term is in English but I think it is positive cognitive dissonance. /me steps down from soapbox now :) Regards, Patrick ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Al Baker wrote: Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. Further, there is mandatory soak-testing for all new software. Sorry, anyone who wants to compare Professional TELCO GRADE software development with Open Source is just Completely and Totally freakin clueless. Uh, no. That juxtaposition is simply not accurate and shows a complete lack of experience with actually-existing reality. Yes, formal development methodologies, QA, regression testing, etc. are certainly very helpful and probably help to eliminate certain categories of bugs, but to hear it from you, it is as if serious open-source projects (let alone ones with official corporate maintainers and sponsors) don't do any of these things, or that these methodologies are a panacea that produces bug-free products. The bugs are still there, in innumerable quantities. Automated testing is relatively ineffective at finding most of the things that beleaguer Cisco gear in production environments. I don't think we need to get into a lengthy discussion of the kinds of bugs that we routinely chance to encounter, but it suffices to say that many of them do boil down to the difference between Marketing's claims and actual backplane/DSP/bus capacity and/or throughput. In the case of Professional TELCO GRADE software and hardware, that problem is much greater and accounts for a much larger share of problems. Also, an inherent limitation upon the QA and feedback process of commercial vendors is the small number of installations. Sure, Cisco may be one of the most universal varieties of anything in the computing world, but the number of deployments - let alone ones with fully-fledged support agreements - is small. And how many of those adopters are going to push Cisco gear to the limits where it starts to fail so spectacularly? It's a very, very small number of installations compared to the terrific number of open-source deployments, not to mention the pairs of eyes that lay on the code in an open-source situation. If you were to consider that with any kind of intimate detail, you would see that the average quality and range of user feedback that someone like Digium or MySQL AB gets is much, much higher and more discerning than the things that come into the Cisco TAC. In short, there is absolutely not a damn thing that makes commercial software superior here ipso facto from an engineering perspective; not a single smattering of an iota of a thing. As with all projects, the intellectual coherence, sophistication, and skill of the implementors and other elements of its polity vary immensely. Some commercial products - including very expensive, well-supported ones - are an absolutely abysmal, apocalyptic pile of dross. Some open-source projects are extremely well-managed and mature, on the whole (MySQL). Most lie somewhere in between. But there is nothing about the corporate method of software development that produces higher quality work; if anything, it is bound to be somewhat lower. -- Alex -- Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Twat. How long have you been using CCM? By your comments, I suspect less than 24 hours!! Either that or you work for Cisco's PR department. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Baker Sent: 25 July 2008 17:54 To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk Quote Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. Further, there is mandatory soak-testing for all new software. Sorry, anyone who wants to compare Professional TELCO GRADE software development with Open Source is just Completely and Totally freakin clueless. Alex Balashov wrote: T G wrote: I'm a CCIE and CCVP. I have worked in the Cisco TSBU on both CCM and Telepresence systems I have two IP patents for the VoiP Lite protocols and have been designing and building OSS IPBXs for companies including Google going back to 2001. I'm not mentioning any of that to be jerk I mentioned it to say I'm as qualified as anyone to to compare the CCM and OSS servers. The only fair way to compare the two is a list of weights features, for example if cost is your biggest feature then OSS is better, if support is your biggest feature than Cisco wins. When a customer is comparing the costly (TCO) and best supported systems in the world with hundreds of thousands installed systems for the large global companies on the planted backed by 54,000 employees and over $25b in the bank vs, a FREE system with one layer of support maybe two layers of support, the features don't even come in the evaluation in my opinion. I once asked a manager why did you buy the CCM and he said no one ever got fired for buying Cisco if anything wrong, If push the OSS and it goes I could loose my job. I would get a list of the important features, because there is no answer to your question of which is better. Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. Depending on how critical the bugs or other support exigencies, the TCO can be driven way up. Except with the OSS community, you report the bug, and usually get a quick fix - even if it's a significant issue for you, not necessarily most of the installed base. If by chance that proves not to be the case, the source code is available, and you can fix it yourself. With Cisco, you pay for expensive support and get to file some complaint with the TAC. Yay. There are many, many angles from which onec an look at this in one's TCO / OPEX formula. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Do say no more, thank you Alex i think a majority of users here think the same, i suspect that Alan Baker is the kind of person who defends his position no matter what it takes, and facts dont change that much, look at other topic at this list here 'Cisco Call Manager to Asterisk conversion' Same argument without and explanation. 2008/7/25 Alex Balashov [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Al Baker wrote: Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. Further, there is mandatory soak-testing for all new software. Sorry, anyone who wants to compare Professional TELCO GRADE software development with Open Source is just Completely and Totally freakin clueless. Uh, no. That juxtaposition is simply not accurate and shows a complete lack of experience with actually-existing reality. Yes, formal development methodologies, QA, regression testing, etc. are certainly very helpful and probably help to eliminate certain categories of bugs, but to hear it from you, it is as if serious open-source projects (let alone ones with official corporate maintainers and sponsors) don't do any of these things, or that these methodologies are a panacea that produces bug-free products. The bugs are still there, in innumerable quantities. Automated testing is relatively ineffective at finding most of the things that beleaguer Cisco gear in production environments. I don't think we need to get into a lengthy discussion of the kinds of bugs that we routinely chance to encounter, but it suffices to say that many of them do boil down to the difference between Marketing's claims and actual backplane/DSP/bus capacity and/or throughput. In the case of Professional TELCO GRADE software and hardware, that problem is much greater and accounts for a much larger share of problems. Also, an inherent limitation upon the QA and feedback process of commercial vendors is the small number of installations. Sure, Cisco may be one of the most universal varieties of anything in the computing world, but the number of deployments - let alone ones with fully-fledged support agreements - is small. And how many of those adopters are going to push Cisco gear to the limits where it starts to fail so spectacularly? It's a very, very small number of installations compared to the terrific number of open-source deployments, not to mention the pairs of eyes that lay on the code in an open-source situation. If you were to consider that with any kind of intimate detail, you would see that the average quality and range of user feedback that someone like Digium or MySQL AB gets is much, much higher and more discerning than the things that come into the Cisco TAC. In short, there is absolutely not a damn thing that makes commercial software superior here ipso facto from an engineering perspective; not a single smattering of an iota of a thing. As with all projects, the intellectual coherence, sophistication, and skill of the implementors and other elements of its polity vary immensely. Some commercial products - including very expensive, well-supported ones - are an absolutely abysmal, apocalyptic pile of dross. Some open-source projects are extremely well-managed and mature, on the whole (MySQL). Most lie somewhere in between. But there is nothing about the corporate method of software development that produces higher quality work; if anything, it is bound to be somewhat lower. -- Alex -- Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Patrick wrote: Al Baker wrote: Quote Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. This is simply NOT TRUE and shows a complete lack of understanding of modern software development. CISCO software is developed in a CMM environment. It has a formal test methodology and uses Automated Testing on EACH new release to ensure that 100% of the software that functioned in the Last Release, actually works in this release. Further, there is mandatory soak-testing for all new software. Sorry, anyone who wants to compare Professional TELCO GRADE software development with Open Source is just Completely and Totally freakin clueless. I don't know where you got this idea but I've worked in the telco grade equipment business for years and I can assure you that I've seen bug riddled, jaw dropping releases that were borderline pathetic. Besides Benoit's examples of the CSR-1 and IOS releases, ask anyone that had the pleasure of using Cisco's early CCM releases (iirc those still ran on Windows). Maybe this comes as a shock but many vendors actually use their customers as a testing platform. They sell them stuff that has some, more or many bugs and fix stuff moving forward. They might even charge their customers for the latest releases with the bug fixes. Check out the changelogs of Cisco SIP firmware releases which you can only get legally when you pay for a SmartNet contract. A reason one might *think* that vendors have this elaborate development and testing methodology in place and that their stuff rocks in the stability and no-bugs-found-here department is to give oneself some piece of mind over the crapload of money forked over for the product and another crapload of money for the support contract/SLA. Not sure what the term is in English but I think it is positive cognitive dissonance. /me steps down from soapbox now :) Regards, Patrick Patrick, Well presented ... thank you...:) I will add one sentence: A software without a bug, is DEAD software. Regards, Senad ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
I'm a CCIE and CCVP. I have worked in the Cisco TSBU on both CCM and Telepresence systems I have two IP patents for the VoiP Lite protocols and have been designing and building OSS IPBXs for companies including Google going back to 2001. I'm not mentioning any of that to be jerk I mentioned it to say I'm as qualified as anyone to to compare the CCM and OSS servers. The only fair way to compare the two is a list of weights features, for example if cost is your biggest feature then OSS is better, if support is your biggest feature than Cisco wins. When a customer is comparing the costly (TCO) and best supported systems in the world with hundreds of thousands installed systems for the large global companies on the planted backed by 54,000 employees and over $25b in the bank vs, a FREE system with one layer of support maybe two layers of support, the features don't even come in the evaluation in my opinion. I once asked a manager why did you buy the CCM and he said no one ever got fired for buying Cisco if anything wrong, If push the OSS and it goes I could loose my job. I would get a list of the important features, because there is no answer to your question of which is better. - Original Message - From: Benoit Plessis To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:10:50 +0200 voip crazy a écrit : Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? To answer your questions, one would need to know what exactly are all the functionalities of a Cisco Unity server, and more specificaly, what are the needs of your client. But i'm pretty sure the voip-info wiki can answer the asterisk part... ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
My son owns compoanyn here in San Jose and when a customers says they want Cisco be provides Cisco phones with OSS PBX, it seems to work the lower cost and Cisco phone on the desktop. - Original Message - From: Steve Totaro To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 08:59:24 -0400 On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:52 AM, voip crazy wrote: Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? Thanks. VoipCrazy. You said migrate to a Cisco, what do they have now? Sell them all Cisco. You will make more money and great residual income for MACs ;-) Anyways, you could ditch the Cisco entirely and use Asterisk. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a Free Account at www.mail.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
T G wrote: I'm a CCIE and CCVP. I have worked in the Cisco TSBU on both CCM and Telepresence systems I have two IP patents for the VoiP Lite protocols and have been designing and building OSS IPBXs for companies including Google going back to 2001. I'm not mentioning any of that to be jerk I mentioned it to say I'm as qualified as anyone to to compare the CCM and OSS servers. The only fair way to compare the two is a list of weights features, for example if cost is your biggest feature then OSS is better, if support is your biggest feature than Cisco wins. When a customer is comparing the costly (TCO) and best supported systems in the world with hundreds of thousands installed systems for the large global companies on the planted backed by 54,000 employees and over $25b in the bank vs, a FREE system with one layer of support maybe two layers of support, the features don't even come in the evaluation in my opinion. I once asked a manager why did you buy the CCM and he said no one ever got fired for buying Cisco if anything wrong, If push the OSS and it goes I could loose my job. I would get a list of the important features, because there is no answer to your question of which is better. Yet amazingly (if this is, indeed, a source of amazement for you), CCM and other Cisco software can be just as buggy as anything OSS, if not worse. Depending on how critical the bugs or other support exigencies, the TCO can be driven way up. Except with the OSS community, you report the bug, and usually get a quick fix - even if it's a significant issue for you, not necessarily most of the installed base. If by chance that proves not to be the case, the source code is available, and you can fix it yourself. With Cisco, you pay for expensive support and get to file some complaint with the TAC. Yay. There are many, many angles from which onec an look at this in one's TCO / OPEX formula. -- Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
T G wrote: I'm a CCIE and CCVP. I have worked in the Cisco TSBU on both CCM and Telepresence systems I have two IP patents for the VoiP Lite protocols and have been designing and building OSS IPBXs for companies including Google going back to 2001. I'm not mentioning any of that to be jerk I mentioned it to say I'm as qualified as anyone to to compare the CCM and OSS servers. The only fair way to compare the two is a list of weights features, for example if cost is your biggest feature then OSS is better, if support is your biggest feature than Cisco wins. When a customer is comparing the costly (TCO) and best supported systems in the world with hundreds of thousands installed systems for the large global companies on the planted backed by 54,000 employees and over $25b in the bank vs, a FREE system with one layer of support maybe two layers of support, the features don't even come in the evaluation in my opinion. I once asked a manager why did you buy the CCM and he said no one ever got fired for buying Cisco if anything wrong, If push the OSS and it goes I could loose my job. I would get a list of the important features, because there is no answer to your question of which is better. What you mentioned above is mostly correct presuming you are referencing OSS being provided by an organisation with limited resources and perhaps limited experience in OS. Spin that into a perspective of a well organised company harvesting full potential of OS, adding its own proprietary software level allowing it to offer value products and EXCELLENT support, then I will strongly disagree with you. In particular where customer solution isn't just a solution, but rather its products and people becomes your business's communications partner. Senad www.bicomsystems.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
You are mentionning very particular case here, a company with a very strict hierarchy, where a new ideas and solutions are not advised, i think that in the past they used cisco who has some issues from time to time, and they are prepared for that, but new name scares them, and sometimes people use OSS and forget about support, and then when issue arrives, they claim 'OSS' is bad. That experience acumulates, and we are getting scared managers ;) Dont forget to sign a support contract to avoid crying after. 2008/7/24 T G [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I'm a CCIE and CCVP. I have worked in the Cisco TSBU on both CCM and Telepresence systems I have two IP patents for the VoiP Lite protocols and have been designing and building OSS IPBXs for companies including Google going back to 2001. I'm not mentioning any of that to be jerk I mentioned it to say I'm as qualified as anyone to to compare the CCM and OSS servers. The only fair way to compare the two is a list of weights features, for example if cost is your biggest feature then OSS is better, if support is your biggest feature than Cisco wins. When a customer is comparing the costly (TCO) and best supported systems in the world with hundreds of thousands installed systems for the large global companies on the planted backed by 54,000 employees and over $25b in the bank vs, a FREE system with one layer of support maybe two layers of support, the features don't even come in the evaluation in my opinion. I once asked a manager why did you buy the CCM and he said no one ever got fired for buying Cisco if anything wrong, If push the OSS and it goes I could loose my job. I would get a list of the important features, because there is no answer to your question of which is better. - Original Message - From: Benoit Plessis To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 15:10:50 +0200 voip crazy a écrit : Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? To answer your questions, one would need to know what exactly are all the functionalities of a Cisco Unity server, and more specificaly, what are the needs of your client. But i'm pretty sure the voip-info wiki can answer the asterisk part... ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Be Yourself @ mail.com! Choose From 200+ Email Addresses Get a *Free* Account at www.mail.com http://www.mail.com/Product.aspx! ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
I agree, No manager gets fired even if a Cisco Call Manager goes south. that's not the case with Asterisk. With limited experience that i have with both, i hit more bugs using Asterisk than a CCM, but this is not relevant to your final answer. If you can afford CCM, and you can live with less flexibility and features, i would choose Cisco. If you prefer to have cheaper solution and more features and flexibility, Asterisk is good. With Cisco, everything is cisco, handsets are designed for Cisco, it connects to Exchange much more in depth than even microsoft response point. unlike Asterisk, unfortunately exchange integration is not something you may get in close future and that can be a deal breaker for some companies, but you dont pay per seat license. and so on. On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:56 PM, Senad Jordanovic [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: T G wrote: I'm a CCIE and CCVP. I have worked in the Cisco TSBU on both CCM and Telepresence systems I have two IP patents for the VoiP Lite protocols and have been designing and building OSS IPBXs for companies including Google going back to 2001. I'm not mentioning any of that to be jerk I mentioned it to say I'm as qualified as anyone to to compare the CCM and OSS servers. The only fair way to compare the two is a list of weights features, for example if cost is your biggest feature then OSS is better, if support is your biggest feature than Cisco wins. When a customer is comparing the costly (TCO) and best supported systems in the world with hundreds of thousands installed systems for the large global companies on the planted backed by 54,000 employees and over $25b in the bank vs, a FREE system with one layer of support maybe two layers of support, the features don't even come in the evaluation in my opinion. I once asked a manager why did you buy the CCM and he said no one ever got fired for buying Cisco if anything wrong, If push the OSS and it goes I could loose my job. I would get a list of the important features, because there is no answer to your question of which is better. What you mentioned above is mostly correct presuming you are referencing OSS being provided by an organisation with limited resources and perhaps limited experience in OS. Spin that into a perspective of a well organised company harvesting full potential of OS, adding its own proprietary software level allowing it to offer value products and EXCELLENT support, then I will strongly disagree with you. In particular where customer solution isn't just a solution, but rather its products and people becomes your business's communications partner. Senad www.bicomsystems.com ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? Thanks. VoipCrazy. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 8:52 AM, voip crazy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? Thanks. VoipCrazy. You said migrate to a Cisco, what do they have now? Sell them all Cisco. You will make more money and great residual income for MACs ;-) Anyways, you could ditch the Cisco entirely and use Asterisk. Thanks, Steve Totaro ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
voip crazy a écrit : Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? To answer your questions, one would need to know what exactly are all the functionalities of a Cisco Unity server, and more specificaly, what are the needs of your client. But i'm pretty sure the voip-info wiki can answer the asterisk part... ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Hi, I don't use asterisk since 1.2.x version and never deployed an big project with Asterisk, so I don't know if currently Asterisk can replace to Cisco Unity as Voice Mail, but Cisco Unity is not only for voice mail the main objective is to be part of all Unified Communications infrastructure. Then Integration with Active Directory / Exchange (Lotus Notes) and other features is only possible with Cisco Unity. Maybe I'm wrong and Asterisk can do it.. so I would like to read about that... Rgds. On 7/22/08, voip crazy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? Thanks. VoipCrazy. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Omar E.P.T - Certified Networking Professionals make better Connections! ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Call me crazy, but why are you so keen on selling them an Asterisk box when you don't even know if its capable of doing what you want to sell it for? thats kinda scray actually. -- Matt http://www.mattgwatson.ca On 7/22/08, voip crazy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? Thanks. VoipCrazy. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
[EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Call me crazy, but why are you so keen on selling them an Asterisk box when you don't even know if its capable of doing what you want to sell it for? I won't, i had the same felling ... thats kinda scray actually. Yep ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
At this stage connectivity is great between asterisk -- sipX(3.8) -- Exchange UM And still i dont see the features needed. 2008/7/22 Benoit Plessis [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit : Call me crazy, but why are you so keen on selling them an Asterisk box when you don't even know if its capable of doing what you want to sell it for? I won't, i had the same felling ... thats kinda scray actually. Yep ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
voip crazy wrote: Hello all, A client of us, is thinking to migrate their actual PBX to a Cisco CallManager. We want to sell him an asterisk box to complement the Cisco PBX. I think to use asterisk as a Voicemail server (Replazing the Cisco Unity) Has asterisk all the functionalities to replace a CIsco Unity server? Which functionalities Cisco Unity has than asterisk could cover? How could asterisk complement the Cisco Call Manager funcionalities? I don't know that any OSS piece ever has *all* the features of a proprietary platform, especially since a lot of those features tend to be very esoteric and designed to complement the vendor's other service platform and handset gear. The question is: 1. What are you trying to do? 2. Can Asterisk do it? 3. Can Asterisk do it well? 4. Can Asterisk do it at the scale, volume and scope you're looking for? The question is NOT: 1. Is Asterisk basically like a free version of CallManager? 2. Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? -- Alex Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Alex Balashov schrieb: The question is: 1. What are you trying to do? 2. Can Asterisk do it? 3. Can Asterisk do it well? 4. Can Asterisk do it at the scale, volume and scope you're looking for? The question is NOT: 1. Is Asterisk basically like a free version of CallManager? 2. Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? Come on. People want simple answers. So: Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? [y/n] *scnr* Grüße, Philipp Kempgen -- http://www.das-asterisk-buch.de - http://www.the-asterisk-book.com Amooma GmbH - Bachstr. 126 - 56566 Neuwied - http://www.amooma.de Geschäftsführer: Stefan Wintermeyer, Handelsregister: Neuwied B14998 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
It's amazing... the man starts the thread with a simple question: Can anybody tell him if Asterisk can do the same things that the Cisco Unity Server can do?, if it can do some better, some the same, and/or some worse, can someone indicate which ones? Also, can Asterisk complement the Cisco call manager functionalities?... I wish I knew the answers, and I am myself interested in the educated straight opinions of some of the members of this forum. CS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philipp Kempgen Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:15 PM To: Asterisk Users Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk Alex Balashov schrieb: The question is: 1. What are you trying to do? 2. Can Asterisk do it? 3. Can Asterisk do it well? 4. Can Asterisk do it at the scale, volume and scope you're looking for? The question is NOT: 1. Is Asterisk basically like a free version of CallManager? 2. Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? Come on. People want simple answers. So: Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? [y/n] *scnr* Grüße, Philipp Kempgen -- http://www.das-asterisk-buch.de - http://www.the-asterisk-book.com Amooma GmbH - Bachstr. 126 - 56566 Neuwied - http://www.amooma.de Geschäftsführer: Stefan Wintermeyer, Handelsregister: Neuwied B14998 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
I haven't used Asterisk Voicemail but here are Unity Unified Messaging (for Exchange) 5.x/7.x features, in short I think you need to be a Callmanager/Exchange Server shop with heavy integration with ActiveSync/Direct Push/Outlook 2007/OCS2007. The company that created Unity (Active Voice) was a bunch of ex-microsoft guys. If you are not a enterprise/campus or prefer IMAP/SMTP then I don't think you would see any benefits or ROI. I don't think just hanging Unity Voicemail Only off a Asterisk box would be of much value. I like AVST CallXpress http://www.avst.com/products/callxpressMessaging/ for smaller customers. Unity Unified Messaging (for Exchange) 5.x/7.x Using Exchange Administrator it reads/writes directly to Exchange Message Store (not IMAP or SMTP) Phone View (listen to message as callers leave them, control message on Cisco 79xx phone LCD screen) Windows Mobile/Blackberry intergration (has Blackberry plug-in) Single number for fax/T38 Speech Connect (reply to voicemails via Speech to Text or have them read Text to Speech) Mailbox greetings based on Calendar Integration Unity Digital Networking for multiple sites being able to send each other messages There are flash videos and datasheets here; http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/sw/voicesw/ps2237/index.html Now I will go read the Wiki and see how Asterik handles Voicemail Note there are several version of Unity (Unity Unified Messaging (with Echange), Unity Unified Messaging (with Domino), Unity Connection 2.x, Unity Unified Express). I choose the version with the most integration with Exchange to discuss here. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of C. Savinovich Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 3:07 PM To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion' Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk It's amazing... the man starts the thread with a simple question: Can anybody tell him if Asterisk can do the same things that the Cisco Unity Server can do?, if it can do some better, some the same, and/or some worse, can someone indicate which ones? Also, can Asterisk complement the Cisco call manager functionalities?... I wish I knew the answers, and I am myself interested in the educated straight opinions of some of the members of this forum. CS -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philipp Kempgen Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 2:15 PM To: Asterisk Users Subject: Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk Alex Balashov schrieb: The question is: 1. What are you trying to do? 2. Can Asterisk do it? 3. Can Asterisk do it well? 4. Can Asterisk do it at the scale, volume and scope you're looking for? The question is NOT: 1. Is Asterisk basically like a free version of CallManager? 2. Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? Come on. People want simple answers. So: Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? [y/n] *scnr* Grüße, Philipp Kempgen -- http://www.das-asterisk-buch.de - http://www.the-asterisk-book.com Amooma GmbH - Bachstr. 126 - 56566 Neuwied - http://www.amooma.de Geschäftsführer: Stefan Wintermeyer, Handelsregister: Neuwied B14998 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users - Disclaimer: This e-mail communication and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged information and is for use by the designated addressee(s) named above only. If you are not the intended addressee, you are hereby notified that you have received this communication in error and that any use or reproduction of this email or its contents is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Philipp Kempgen wrote: Come on. People want simple answers. So: Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? [y/n] *scnr* I think for questions like this, we should always consider the m (maybe) option. :) ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [asterisk-users] Cisco vs Asterisk
Rob Hillis wrote: Philipp Kempgen wrote: Come on. People want simple answers. So: Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? [y/n] *scnr* I think for questions like this, we should always consider the m (maybe) option. :) Or my preferred approach: Yes means no and no means yes. Can Asterisk duplicate CallManager? [yes/no] -- Alex Balashov Evariste Systems Web: http://www.evaristesys.com/ Tel: (+1) (678) 954-0670 Direct : (+1) (678) 954-0671 Mobile : (+1) (706) 338-8599 ___ -- Bandwidth and Colocation Provided by http://www.api-digital.com -- AstriCon 2008 - September 22 - 25 Phoenix, Arizona Register Now: http://www.astricon.net asterisk-users mailing list To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
