Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Andrei (MPI) wrote: Richard Scobie wrote: It is a simple one liner. ... Index: wctdm.c ... + reset_spi(wc,card); ... This is exact same patch that Digium support tried before sending me new fxo modules. That wctdm.c patch did not help in my case. Interesting, thanks Andrei. I have run for a month so far, without any trouble since including this. The issues I have seen, have occured at 2 week to 2 month intervals. The system has not had much use for the last 3 weeks, so I'll need to wait a few months to be sure. Regards, Richard ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:55 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards [...] For business use, I would suggest you first find a BRI card you can use here in the states. Hint, bug Kapejod into making that 4 port card US ready. Then move any business user over [...] That might work out where you do your deployments. In Verizon territory, you can get analog business lines with unlimited long distance and no metered minutes for about $37 a month. A BRI costs you about double that for the loop, with metered minutes and bring your own LD. Past the technology aspects, BRI just doesn't work here. And I'm going to guess that pricing structure is similar in other areas as well. Daryl ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:08:27 -0500, Daryl G. Jurbala wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:55 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards [...] For business use, I would suggest you first find a BRI card you can use here in the states. Hint, bug Kapejod into making that 4 port card US ready. Then move any business user over [...] That might work out where you do your deployments. In Verizon territory, you can get analog business lines with unlimited long distance and no metered minutes for about $37 a month. A BRI costs you about double that for the loop, with metered minutes and bring your own LD. Past the technology aspects, BRI just doesn't work here. And I'm going to guess that pricing structure is similar in other areas as well. Daryl Are you talking about residential lines with those rates? Business rates for POTS lines are more than that here in Houston. Michael -- Michael Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sr. Product Specialist www.pixelpower.com Pixel Power Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] o713-861-4005 o800-905-6412 c713-201-1262 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
At 03:25 PM 1/3/05 -0500, you wrote: Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills and if the time it takes for the install to pay for itself is raised significantly (like an added $1000 price tag for reliable equipment)... well... the writing on the wall is pretty clear. -A. With the above said, now you have just entered the realm of the talkswitch. I was speaking with a cable installer friend of mine, who told me he installs the talkswitch at all the jenny craig franchises (the franchise, I assume pays for the devices as he does not resell them). His words talkswitch is great, just plug it in and it works, pbx and voip, you can't beat it He also wires them to their pa system. List price is 1800 bucks for the top of the line unit. 8fxo, 16fxs, ethernet When you try to sell the asterisk system, you have to compete with that and frankly, all the people want is to make phone calls. Mention voice over ip and eyebrows raise, I've heard of that, but in reality nobody cares how their phone calls are made, just that it goes through. If you can't save them a bunch of money, there is little or no reason to diverge to a more costly system, that will save in the long run, regardless of the additional feature set, which if they can't touch it, feel it taste it, smell it, smoke it, makes no difference at all. In reality, I want to off as many boxes as I can, maybe tie in some service contracts, and be done with it. From our experience, most small office/businesses have a bunch of phone lines, 3-8, and are leery of spending a chunk of change on a new system and possibly phones as well. g ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Greg - Cirelle Enterprises wrote: When you try to sell the asterisk system, you have to compete with that and frankly, all the people want is to make phone calls. Mention voice over ip and eyebrows raise, I've heard of that, but in reality nobody cares how their phone calls are made, just that it goes through. If you can't save them a bunch of money, there is little or no reason to diverge to a more costly system, that will save in the long run, regardless of the additional feature set, which if they can't touch it, feel it taste it, smell it, smoke it, makes no difference at all. Yeppers. Then in six months or a year, or whatever timeframe (these things are expected to provide many years of use by those who consider their price expensive) they will ask you, How do I use one of these newfangled ITSPs with our system? Why do I have to still have to use an answering machine? Why am I paying $7/line for CallerID? Can I set this thing up to automatically forward to my cell phone when I'm not in the office? Can we have an autoattendant like everyone else does now? Why do I still have to pay for conferencing? Can I set things up so that all the sales phones ring at the same time until someone picks one up? Etc. etc. I fielded questions like these from a businessman the other day who loudly bemoaned having invested some fairly hefty cash (in small business terms) on a Nortel key system, THREE YEARS AGO. Imagine what he would have sounded like had he cut that check last month instead. Maybe these talkswitches are smart and can do a lot of those things. I don't know anything about them. I do think the play that VoIP is getting, pretty much all over the place, in the mainstream and business media, will soon result in the average businessperson knowing much more about it than is presently known. At that point some of the economy mentioned in your email is going to seem misguided, IMO. B. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
At 11:34 AM 1/4/05, you wrote: On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:08:27 -0500, Daryl G. Jurbala wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:55 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards [...] For business use, I would suggest you first find a BRI card you can use here in the states. Hint, bug Kapejod into making that 4 port card US ready. Then move any business user over [...] That might work out where you do your deployments. In Verizon territory, you can get analog business lines with unlimited long distance and no metered minutes for about $37 a month. A BRI costs you about double that for the loop, with metered minutes and bring your own LD. Past the technology aspects, BRI just doesn't work here. And I'm going to guess that pricing structure is similar in other areas as well. Daryl Are you talking about residential lines with those rates? Business rates for POTS lines are more than that here in Houston. Michael business rates here in the North East (us) are 49/mo cheepy T1's start at about 250/mo plus minutes, one case I can think of is 2cents per minute g ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Michael Graves wrote: That might work out where you do your deployments. In Verizon territory, you can get analog business lines with unlimited long distance and no metered minutes for about $37 a month. A BRI costs you about double that for the loop, with metered minutes and bring your own LD. Are you talking about residential lines with those rates? Business rates for POTS lines are more than that here in Houston. Analog line for business is about $50 plus tax with unlimited LD and all the basic features (Verizon NJ). Also there are middleman companies who buy wholesale from Verizon and provide it for less to business customers (some limitations do apply). Andrei ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Sipura SPA 3000... forget the channel bank and PRI card. Buy a PRI card and ebay the SPAs when you arte ready to move from POTS to PRI, or better yet, forget both and find an ITSP that can offer QoS (private line!!!) and interface with * Talkswitch? Get on the VoIP bus or get run over buy it, your choice. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg - Cirelle Enterprises Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 9:57 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards At 03:25 PM 1/3/05 -0500, you wrote: Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills and if the time it takes for the install to pay for itself is raised significantly (like an added $1000 price tag for reliable equipment)... well... the writing on the wall is pretty clear. -A. With the above said, now you have just entered the realm of the talkswitch. I was speaking with a cable installer friend of mine, who told me he installs the talkswitch at all the jenny craig franchises (the franchise, I assume pays for the devices as he does not resell them). His words talkswitch is great, just plug it in and it works, pbx and voip, you can't beat it He also wires them to their pa system. List price is 1800 bucks for the top of the line unit. 8fxo, 16fxs, ethernet When you try to sell the asterisk system, you have to compete with that and frankly, all the people want is to make phone calls. Mention voice over ip and eyebrows raise, I've heard of that, but in reality nobody cares how their phone calls are made, just that it goes through. If you can't save them a bunch of money, there is little or no reason to diverge to a more costly system, that will save in the long run, regardless of the additional feature set, which if they can't touch it, feel it taste it, smell it, smoke it, makes no difference at all. In reality, I want to off as many boxes as I can, maybe tie in some service contracts, and be done with it. From our experience, most small office/businesses have a bunch of phone lines, 3-8, and are leery of spending a chunk of change on a new system and possibly phones as well. g ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 10:08 -0500, Daryl G. Jurbala wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:55 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards [...] For business use, I would suggest you first find a BRI card you can use here in the states. Hint, bug Kapejod into making that 4 port card US ready. Then move any business user over [...] That might work out where you do your deployments. In Verizon territory, you can get analog business lines with unlimited long distance and no metered minutes for about $37 a month. A BRI costs you about double that for the loop, with metered minutes and bring your own LD. Past the technology aspects, BRI just doesn't work here. And I'm going to guess that pricing structure is similar in other areas as well. $37 sounds cheap even for residential lines. As for BRI costing more, don't forget for every BRI line, you get 2 bearers or the equivalent of 2 analog phone lines. BTW, the metered time on a BRI is not a verizon thing but rather your local PSC or equiv was buffaloed into giving it up for the telco. The PSC here was pretty reasonable before it was disbanded. Here we still get business rate BRI is $90 a month after all taxes and is unmetered for local calls. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
That's an LD T1 PRI right? Long distance only? No tone? What does a local T1/PRI cost? That gets unlimited intra-LATA calling? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg - Cirelle Enterprises Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 12:29 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards At 11:34 AM 1/4/05, you wrote: On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 10:08:27 -0500, Daryl G. Jurbala wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 4:55 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards [...] For business use, I would suggest you first find a BRI card you can use here in the states. Hint, bug Kapejod into making that 4 port card US ready. Then move any business user over [...] That might work out where you do your deployments. In Verizon territory, you can get analog business lines with unlimited long distance and no metered minutes for about $37 a month. A BRI costs you about double that for the loop, with metered minutes and bring your own LD. Past the technology aspects, BRI just doesn't work here. And I'm going to guess that pricing structure is similar in other areas as well. Daryl Are you talking about residential lines with those rates? Business rates for POTS lines are more than that here in Houston. Michael business rates here in the North East (us) are 49/mo cheepy T1's start at about 250/mo plus minutes, one case I can think of is 2cents per minute g ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Andrei (MPI) wrote: Michael Graves wrote: That might work out where you do your deployments. In Verizon territory, you can get analog business lines with unlimited long distance and no metered minutes for about $37 a month. A BRI costs you about double that for the loop, with metered minutes and bring your own LD. Are you talking about residential lines with those rates? Business rates for POTS lines are more than that here in Houston. Analog line for business is about $50 plus tax with unlimited LD and all the basic features (Verizon NJ). My business line is $54/mo with no LD. My home phone was 47/mo with no LD. The joys of having no options on the copper. Jeromie Also there are middleman companies who buy wholesale from Verizon and provide it for less to business customers (some limitations do apply). Andrei ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
At 12:29 PM 1/4/05, you wrote: Greg - Cirelle Enterprises wrote: When you try to sell the asterisk system, you have to compete with that and frankly, all the people want is to make phone calls. Mention voice over ip and eyebrows raise, I've heard of that, but in reality nobody cares how their phone calls are made, just that it goes through. If you can't save them a bunch of money, there is little or no reason to diverge to a more costly system, that will save in the long run, regardless of the additional feature set, which if they can't touch it, feel it taste it, smell it, smoke it, makes no difference at all. Yeppers. Then in six months or a year, or whatever timeframe (these things are expected to provide many years of use by those who consider their price expensive) they will ask you, How do I use one of these newfangled ITSPs with our system? Why do I have to still have to use an answering machine? Why am I paying $7/line for CallerID? Can I set this thing up to automatically forward to my cell phone when I'm not in the office? Can we have an autoattendant like everyone else does now? Why do I still have to pay for conferencing? Can I set things up so that all the sales phones ring at the same time until someone picks one up? Etc. etc. I fielded questions like these from a businessman the other day who loudly bemoaned having invested some fairly hefty cash (in small business terms) on a Nortel key system, THREE YEARS AGO. Imagine what he would have sounded like had he cut that check last month instead. Maybe these talkswitches are smart and can do a lot of those things. I don't know anything about them. I do think the play that VoIP is getting, pretty much all over the place, in the mainstream and business media, will soon result in the average businessperson knowing much more about it than is presently known. At that point some of the economy mentioned in your email is going to seem misguided, IMO. B. They come with all the above ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
At 12:50 PM 1/4/05, you wrote: Sipura SPA 3000... forget the channel bank and PRI card. Buy a PRI card and ebay the SPAs when you arte ready to move from POTS to PRI, or better yet, forget both and find an ITSP that can offer QoS (private line!!!) and interface with * Talkswitch? Get on the VoIP bus or get run over buy it, your choice. comes with it... ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Monday 03 January 2005 00:39, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: [...] Everyone keeps coming back to this light power supply and I just do not buy it. Period. I'm sorry, Steven, but it's bullshit. I'm speaking as an electronics design engineer and as someone who's been playing with this kind of stuff for the better part of a decade. light power supply is like irritable bowel syndrome -- it's what you call the problem when you haven't been able to isolate the cause and the patient is demanding to know what's wrong with him. Xeon 2.4GHz system, triple-redundant power supplies, Supermicro server motherboard, hot-swap everything. +5 and +12V lines are within +/- 40mV of their target voltages, measured with a 100MHz DSO -- it is *not* a power issue. P3-700 with 12 IDE drives in it, 350 or 450W (but decent make) power supply: Power quality is slightly lower but still what I would call acceptable. [...] What matters is the volts, amps and the voltage drop when the rails are put under load. You have to ask yourself how many amps does the mb require on each rail and can the psu supply it? The total power supplied by the psu means nothing if it supplies all that power over the 12v line but leave nothing for 5v. B ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On January 3, 2005 05:35 am, Bob Goddard wrote: What matters is the volts, amps and the voltage drop when the rails are put under load. You have to ask yourself how many amps does the mb require on each rail and can the psu supply it? The total power supplied by the psu means nothing if it supplies all that power over the 12v line but leave nothing for 5v. As I said, I measured the variation on the relevant lines with a 100MHz DSO when running under load. There isn't any kind of significant droop or swell in the lines -- not when asterisk is ringing a line, not when executing a kernel compile and a find / -name 'somethingthatdoesn'texist', not when doing both. Again, if the TDM400P is drawing more than a couple hundred milliamps over nominal when ringing all four lines, something is wrong in the design, and if your PSU can't source a couple hundred milliamps more than it is under normal load, you've specc'd it too close to your average draw. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Monday 03 January 2005 12:34, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 3, 2005 05:35 am, Bob Goddard wrote: What matters is the volts, amps and the voltage drop when the rails are put under load. You have to ask yourself how many amps does the mb require on each rail and can the psu supply it? The total power supplied by the psu means nothing if it supplies all that power over the 12v line but leave nothing for 5v. As I said, I measured the variation on the relevant lines with a 100MHz DSO when running under load. No you didn't. What was the power load when the modules failed? There isn't any kind of significant droop or swell in the lines -- not when asterisk is ringing a line, not when executing a kernel compile and a find / -name 'somethingthatdoesn'texist', not when doing both. That is a simple find, a better one would be find / -ls, you should also try running seti on all processors at the same time. Again, if the TDM400P is drawing more than a couple hundred milliamps over nominal when ringing all four lines, something is wrong in the design, and if your PSU can't source a couple hundred milliamps more than it is under normal load, you've specc'd it too close to your average draw. If your motherboard requires 5amps when your psu can only supply 4, then you're going to have trouble. This IS a problem, just that it may not be in your case. B ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
I have been wondering if the spa 3000 would make a good PSTN interface for an * box where POTS is the only available (or practical) service. Have you implemented this? Are there any limitations or known issues? The SPA2000 sure seems to work well as an ATA, even had good luck with fax over IP using g.711 and the fax detection in zaptel and the SPA (turns off echo cancel dynamically when the CNG tone is heard I believe). Can you use the FXS and FXO ports at the same time, for two separate calls via * ? Yes, it works fine. The SPA 3000 is small enough that a half dozen of them would be manageable, any more than that and your are usually in the T1 price range for service anyways. The down-side to the spa3k is that its rather difficult to configure since they've provided so many different config options and their user manual does not address much beyond a basic config. For my home use, I inserted the spa3k into the pstn line in such a way as to avoid remedial spousal training. :) All house phones are attached to the fxs (line 1) port. This specific config supports: - all outgoing fxs - pstn calls are passed through to the fxo port without asterisk being involved. (eg, avoids 911 and training issues) - all outgoing fxs calls prefixed with a 8 are routed to * for completion (regardless of what follows the 8). - all outgoing fxs calls matching 3xxx (* extensions) are routed to * for completion. - the fxs port was configured to register with *, and therefore the fxs port is also an exten from asterisk's perspective (eg, * exten's can dial the fxs port) - distinctive ringing is implemented as: - incoming pstn calls (via fxo port) ring normal - incoming voip * calls use a distinctive ring - the fxo port was configured to register with * (different creditials from the fxs port), and therefore asterisk can place calls through the spa3k fxo port. - I specifically did _not_ want * involved with incoming pstn (fxo) calls (in this case), but rather wanted those to ring through to the fxs port directly. (Avoids complaints when care and feeding *) - the spa3k is running v2.0.11(GWg) The only difference between the above and using the spa3k as an inbound pstn gw is the definitions for the pstn (fxo) port. If you dig through the voxilla.com forum postings, you'll see where that also has been implemented. However, that fxo - * connection is even less clear. I had that working several months ago, but that wasn't my specific objective so I didn't attempt to document it. The problem with most of these external gateways (regardless of vendor) is that it almost requires a knowledgable person with a packet sniffer and a lot of trial error mucking around to find the appropriate combination of parameters to accomplish a specific task. In my specific implementation above, the key turned out to be extensive use of dialplan strings that were not very well documented. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On January 3, 2005 08:01 am, Bob Goddard wrote: As I said, I measured the variation on the relevant lines with a 100MHz DSO when running under load. No you didn't. What was the power load when the modules failed? The actual current draw I did not measure -- I was looking for voltage sags or swells on the +5V and +12V lines during load. That is a simple find, a better one would be find / -ls, you should also try running seti on all processors at the same time. yes it's a simple find but there would be significant disk/cache thrashing when combined with a kernel complile, as I'd mentioned. If your motherboard requires 5amps when your psu can only supply 4, then you're going to have trouble. Yes I completely agree with you here. This IS a problem, just that it may not be in your case. I am willing to bet that my case is the more general case here -- The TDM current draw just is not a big draw, or at least it should not be -- certainly no more than a HDD during heavy seeking or a video card during some intense gaming sequences or even some of the larger data acquisition/DSP cards I've used in the past. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 09:20 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 3, 2005 08:01 am, Bob Goddard wrote: As I said, I measured the variation on the relevant lines with a 100MHz DSO when running under load. No you didn't. What was the power load when the modules failed? The actual current draw I did not measure -- I was looking for voltage sags or swells on the +5V and +12V lines during load. While this has stemmed from my semi-educated guess, I would be most concerned with current instead of voltage. When I previously abused a PC PSU it was driving a high torque 12v electric motor. The really high torque motors would peak out at 5 amps during spool up. That would cause a PC PSU to pulse between something like .5 amps and 4 amps. If the spool up was controlled, I could keep the motor under 4 amps and the PSU could drive the motor. I had no interest in the voltage because it was the current that ran the motor. That is a simple find, a better one would be find / -ls, you should also try running seti on all processors at the same time. yes it's a simple find but there would be significant disk/cache thrashing when combined with a kernel complile, as I'd mentioned. Okay, link this to my rambling above and you would see that by thrashing the disk, you are actually keeping the spindle spooled up and not measuring the spool up draw. My guess is a spooled down machine getting a random incoming call that then must generate ring and spool up the HD(s) to start writing logs at the same time on a questionable PSU. If your motherboard requires 5amps when your psu can only supply 4, then you're going to have trouble. Yes I completely agree with you here. This IS a problem, just that it may not be in your case. I am willing to bet that my case is the more general case here -- The TDM current draw just is not a big draw, or at least it should not be -- certainly no more than a HDD during heavy seeking or a video card during some intense gaming sequences or even some of the larger data acquisition/DSP cards I've used in the past. As far as I know, with the exception of a couple of video cards that resorted to an external PSU, all video cards have to draw from the PCI or AGP bus. This means the TDM card is likely to draw more than the graphics card. Heavy HDD thrashing uses less power than the spooling up of an idle drive. I'm also starting to wonder about specific phones now as well. While this next bit of rambling is not asterisk related, it is phone related and something to consider. While out at my mothers house, she had a phone next to her PC that wouldn't ring and when used would cause the DSL to drop out. I happened to buy a new cordless phone for her and replaced a phone that was working elsewhere in her home. After putting the new cordless phone in, the phone by her PC started ringing properly and was able to be used without dropping the DSL. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
You guys probably don't know what Digium did recently to address TDM400 problem: - they've sent new FXO modules to all customers who were complaining about TDM/FXO issues. What I've heard from a Didigum reseller/supplier it might be a situation with specific telco lines here in US. The new FXO modules SOLVED my problem. I have stable Asterisk system in production for more than 3 weeks now. I used to have the recurring problem every day, in about 6-8 hours after server reboot / Asterisk restart / modules reload. Andrei Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 1, 2005 04:09 pm, Rich Adamson wrote: b. don't ever post anything to the -dev list regarding a TDM card as that is NOT the forum for digium cards or drivers, Eh? If you're hacking on the code for wctdm, -dev is most certainly an appropriate place to post. If you're just going there to bitch about it well no, that's not the right place. :-) c. digium support is not addressing the issue, and, d. the amount of effort required to support the TDM card (stop *, restart the drivers, start *) in its present condition is far greater then what any reasonable non-technical customer will endure. With regard to c) I think that Digium's doing their best to try and nail down the issue but it's eluding them, and they are keeping very quiet about it. (Head in the sand perhaps?) d) I completely agree with -- I would love to deploy these cards, up to a pair in a system, but I just can't at this point in time. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On January 3, 2005 12:29 pm, Andrei (MPI) wrote: You guys probably don't know what Digium did recently to address TDM400 problem: - they've sent new FXO modules to all customers who were complaining about TDM/FXO issues. What I've heard from a Didigum reseller/supplier it might be a situation with specific telco lines here in US. I knew they were working on an FXO fix but I'm also looking at FXS issues -- I am *very* happy to hear that the FXO appears to be working for you, but let us know in another 6 weeks if it's still stable -- 2.5 months of uptime would be longer than I've seen. :-) -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Mon, Jan 03, 2005 at 12:27:56PM -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith said: My Panasonic 900MHz cordless phone plays silly bugger with the TDM400P card all the time. For whatever reason it either draws far too much power or just plain does not like the TDM430P. My Aastra 390 and a couple other regular phones seem to work just fine, but that cordless phone will crackle and sputter for the first 10s or so of the call, at which point it quiets down and behaves itself. It's interesting - in addition to my own experiences, I have heard Many stories about Panasonic cordless phones acting strange / causing problems on all sorts of phone systems - not just asterisk. Enough so, that I tell people to avoid them. It would be interesting to see exactly what they do to the line that makes them more problematic that other brands. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Steven Critchfield wrote: Okay, link this to my rambling above and you would see that by thrashing the disk, you are actually keeping the spindle spooled up and not measuring the spool up draw. My guess is a spooled down machine getting a random incoming call that then must generate ring and spool up the HD(s) to start writing logs at the same time on a questionable PSU. ??! Who set's up servers with hard drives that are spun down? Powered down hard disks are for laptops and specialised setups where power consumption is critical. These are probably not where people install serious asterisk servers. Regards, Richard ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 09:06 +1300, Richard Scobie wrote: Steven Critchfield wrote: Okay, link this to my rambling above and you would see that by thrashing the disk, you are actually keeping the spindle spooled up and not measuring the spool up draw. My guess is a spooled down machine getting a random incoming call that then must generate ring and spool up the HD(s) to start writing logs at the same time on a questionable PSU. ??! Who set's up servers with hard drives that are spun down? Powered down hard disks are for laptops and specialised setups where power consumption is critical. These are probably not where people install serious asterisk servers. And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. So far I don't trust that many of the people using TDM cards are the ones who will tweak a system into a serious install. Look at previous threads about system load spikes where we have to pull teeth to get people to swap out of a FC kernel and into a generic kernel. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Steven, If we grant that you are correct and that Digium and friends are making hobbyist products. Then what are the serious installs using? We're serious to the tune of 5 FXO ports and 3 FXS ports and I want to make sure we don't waste time on flaky hardware. I figured that as Digium built the hardware and wrote the original code they probably know it better then anyone else. You just seem to know a lot about the serious installs so I'm curious what you use and how many lines you run with it. Btw, we are a textbook small office install according to the docs. Also what the heck is FC? Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:07 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 09:06 +1300, Richard Scobie wrote: Steven Critchfield wrote: Okay, link this to my rambling above and you would see that by thrashing the disk, you are actually keeping the spindle spooled up and not measuring the spool up draw. My guess is a spooled down machine getting a random incoming call that then must generate ring and spool up the HD(s) to start writing logs at the same time on a questionable PSU. ??! Who set's up servers with hard drives that are spun down? Powered down hard disks are for laptops and specialised setups where power consumption is critical. These are probably not where people install serious asterisk servers. And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. So far I don't trust that many of the people using TDM cards are the ones who will tweak a system into a serious install. Look at previous threads about system load spikes where we have to pull teeth to get people to swap out of a FC kernel and into a generic kernel. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On January 3, 2005 03:07 pm, Steven Critchfield wrote: And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills and if the time it takes for the install to pay for itself is raised significantly (like an added $1000 price tag for reliable equipment)... well... the writing on the wall is pretty clear. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Richard Scobie wrote: It is a simple one liner. ... Index: wctdm.c ... + reset_spi(wc,card); ... This is exact same patch that Digium support tried before sending me new fxo modules. That wctdm.c patch did not help in my case. Andrei ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:25:29 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 3, 2005 03:07 pm, Steven Critchfield wrote: And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills and if the time it takes for the install to pay for itself is raised significantly (like an added $1000 price tag for reliable equipment)... well... the writing on the wall is pretty clear. I too have struggled with getting reliability out of the common FXO options. However, we should also keep in mind that BRIs are available, although not as common as POTS lines in the US. A local CLEC pointed me to a web site run by the state of Texas that stipulates the tariffs allowed for PRI and BRI. BRI are actually very cost effective relative to POTS lines since many bundled options like CID are built in. a BRI pair is around $57/mo here. If the TDM400p did not work out for me, which is has to this point, then switching to a BRI would be my next option. It seems that from casual monitoring of the list that BRI interfaces are mroe reliable than FXOs. Michael -- Michael Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sr. Product Specialist www.pixelpower.com Pixel Power Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] o713-861-4005 o800-905-6412 c713-201-1262 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
You may need more coffee before responding to another message. On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 14:21 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven, If we grant that you are correct and that Digium and friends are making hobbyist products. Then what are the serious installs using? We're serious to the tune of 5 FXO ports and 3 FXS ports and I want to make sure we don't waste time on flaky hardware. I figured that as Digium built the hardware and wrote the original code they probably know it better then anyone else. You just seem to know a lot about the serious installs so I'm curious what you use and how many lines you run with it. Digium makes T1 and E1 interfaces. Take a moment and read what I have quoted below and you will see I said serious installs would be using these T1 and E1 interfaces. If you truely wanted to know what I use and how much I have installed, you only need look at the archives. The company I work for has a T1 fully deployed right now and are expecting a second one any week now. We have extra capacity in hardware reserved for a customer of ours who has expressed interest in upgrading soon and needs more lines. I used to even have a T1 card and channel bank to run my home system till I grew bored of it and decided it was better to spend my time doing other things than managing the phones at home. Currently that system minus the server is with VCCH.com and they use it occasionally for demonstrations. Btw, we are a textbook small office install according to the docs. And barely over the home use of a truely geeky person. I think you actually qualify as sub-small office. Also what the heck is FC? Fedora Core, Join that to the obvious question you will ask later, RH == Red Hat. Don't forget how to use google to look things up now. On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 14:07 -0600 Steven Critchfield wrote And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. So far I don't trust that many of the people using TDM cards are the ones who will tweak a system into a serious install. Look at previous threads about system load spikes where we have to pull teeth to get people to swap out of a FC kernel and into a generic kernel. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 15:25 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 3, 2005 03:07 pm, Steven Critchfield wrote: And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills and if the time it takes for the install to pay for itself is raised significantly (like an added $1000 price tag for reliable equipment)... well... the writing on the wall is pretty clear. And those are the ones I see being serviced by people like nufone and others who will put a machine in a colo facility and get really cheap PSTN connections for you and then you don't have but 1 analog port at most to bother with locally. Any small business that is going to balk at a good system is going to balk at ever spending any money and may be a good candidate to go the legacy route and learn what a good raping really feels like. If they don't want to spend money on the infrastructure, you will find that they probably are too marginal to stay in business very long. As a contractor, those would probably be the accounts you will regret in the long run anyways. A company willing to come off of the money to do something right is the ones who you will make a nice profit margin off of and not have to haggle over price when repairs are needed. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 15:06 -0600, Michael Graves wrote: On Mon, 3 Jan 2005 15:25:29 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 3, 2005 03:07 pm, Steven Critchfield wrote: And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills and if the time it takes for the install to pay for itself is raised significantly (like an added $1000 price tag for reliable equipment)... well... the writing on the wall is pretty clear. I too have struggled with getting reliability out of the common FXO options. However, we should also keep in mind that BRIs are available, although not as common as POTS lines in the US. A local CLEC pointed me to a web site run by the state of Texas that stipulates the tariffs allowed for PRI and BRI. BRI are actually very cost effective relative to POTS lines since many bundled options like CID are built in. a BRI pair is around $57/mo here. If the TDM400p did not work out for me, which is has to this point, then switching to a BRI would be my next option. It seems that from casual monitoring of the list that BRI interfaces are mroe reliable than FXOs. For business use, I would suggest you first find a BRI card you can use here in the states. Hint, bug Kapejod into making that 4 port card US ready. Then move any business user over to BRI if they want small deployments. The 8 lines you can get by one 4 span board from Kapejod would be wonderful for a small business and it gives you answer and disconnect supervision. It will give you a lot of other benefits that analog can't. That also would go a ways to making a more reliable from the wires standpoint system as well. I doubt you will have as many unexplained problems from a BRI circuit. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Lousy cordless phones, and some plain phone produce lousy voice quality when the power circuit is used for anything else (especially fluorescent lights). Maybe this is relevant? Using your DSL line for phones without proper filters is noisy too. -Original Message- From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 6:53 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 09:20 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 3, 2005 08:01 am, Bob Goddard wrote: As I said, I measured the variation on the relevant lines with a 100MHz DSO when running under load. No you didn't. What was the power load when the modules failed? The actual current draw I did not measure -- I was looking for voltage sags or swells on the +5V and +12V lines during load. While this has stemmed from my semi-educated guess, I would be most concerned with current instead of voltage. When I previously abused a PC PSU it was driving a high torque 12v electric motor. The really high torque motors would peak out at 5 amps during spool up. That would cause a PC PSU to pulse between something like .5 amps and 4 amps. If the spool up was controlled, I could keep the motor under 4 amps and the PSU could drive the motor. I had no interest in the voltage because it was the current that ran the motor. That is a simple find, a better one would be find / -ls, you should also try running seti on all processors at the same time. yes it's a simple find but there would be significant disk/cache thrashing when combined with a kernel complile, as I'd mentioned. Okay, link this to my rambling above and you would see that by thrashing the disk, you are actually keeping the spindle spooled up and not measuring the spool up draw. My guess is a spooled down machine getting a random incoming call that then must generate ring and spool up the HD(s) to start writing logs at the same time on a questionable PSU. If your motherboard requires 5amps when your psu can only supply 4, then you're going to have trouble. Yes I completely agree with you here. This IS a problem, just that it may not be in your case. I am willing to bet that my case is the more general case here -- The TDM current draw just is not a big draw, or at least it should not be -- certainly no more than a HDD during heavy seeking or a video card during some intense gaming sequences or even some of the larger data acquisition/DSP cards I've used in the past. As far as I know, with the exception of a couple of video cards that resorted to an external PSU, all video cards have to draw from the PCI or AGP bus. This means the TDM card is likely to draw more than the graphics card. Heavy HDD thrashing uses less power than the spooling up of an idle drive. I'm also starting to wonder about specific phones now as well. While this next bit of rambling is not asterisk related, it is phone related and something to consider. While out at my mothers house, she had a phone next to her PC that wouldn't ring and when used would cause the DSL to drop out. I happened to buy a new cordless phone for her and replaced a phone that was working elsewhere in her home. After putting the new cordless phone in, the phone by her PC started ringing properly and was able to be used without dropping the DSL. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Why would a system with five analog lines and ten extensions not be considered serious? Every major corporation is starting to target the SMB market. A working solution for this kind of setup is a must. It can help all of us who want to setup asterisk in small businesses. -Original Message- From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:07 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards On Tue, 2005-01-04 at 09:06 +1300, Richard Scobie wrote: Steven Critchfield wrote: Okay, link this to my rambling above and you would see that by thrashing the disk, you are actually keeping the spindle spooled up and not measuring the spool up draw. My guess is a spooled down machine getting a random incoming call that then must generate ring and spool up the HD(s) to start writing logs at the same time on a questionable PSU. ??! Who set's up servers with hard drives that are spun down? Powered down hard disks are for laptops and specialised setups where power consumption is critical. These are probably not where people install serious asterisk servers. And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. So far I don't trust that many of the people using TDM cards are the ones who will tweak a system into a serious install. Look at previous threads about system load spikes where we have to pull teeth to get people to swap out of a FC kernel and into a generic kernel. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Gosh, you sure are full of yourself. You just shouldn't ASSume that everyone knows all of the abbreviations and when they ask you needn't be rude. Being condescending is the first sign that a consultant is shallow and not worth using. A *good* consultant will take the time to explain things and will never bash the situation that a customer or potential customer is in. Hardware and technology never become obsolete, they simply become outgrown. A customer's given choice in technology is typically made based on the best available balance of money, commitment, and need. Making high handed and unqualified statements is a waste of your time and mine. T-1's are rather unpleasant to move and for most small businesses are completely unnecessary, in my opinion. While you may have the money to burn by having a t-1 at home, most small business owners would rather use what is necessary as opposed to what is extravegant. And as you so nicely put in your other post, customers who come off the dime are a joy to work with. And I suspect most of them wouldn't tinker with * they would go straight to Cisco or Nortel, or a brand name that works turn key. While I'm sure we haven't heard the last of your POTS bashing or small business bashing I've got a bit of a request/challenge. Instead of bashing those of us who run small businesses, try to contribute to the list by being open, modest, and professional. Who knows, you might find a new client, and you never know which small business will grow into the medium client who has money to drop. I know I'd sure look forward to reading your posts if you were contributing useful information and not just bashing the line mix that works for our company. You see the charm in * for us as a small company is that we can implement big company features, control costs, make better use of people and lines which will probably help us avoid needing 8 or 10 lines that would require a T-1. Regardless of if you like that, that's a cool and powerful thing. That is why * rocks and why there will be more of us that adopt it that you will want to shake a stick at. And while * is a bit of a stretch for a home use, it's a slam dunk for any size business. Best regards, Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:59 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards You may need more coffee before responding to another message. On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 14:21 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven, If we grant that you are correct and that Digium and friends are making hobbyist products. Then what are the serious installs using? We're serious to the tune of 5 FXO ports and 3 FXS ports and I want to make sure we don't waste time on flaky hardware. I figured that as Digium built the hardware and wrote the original code they probably know it better then anyone else. You just seem to know a lot about the serious installs so I'm curious what you use and how many lines you run with it. Digium makes T1 and E1 interfaces. Take a moment and read what I have quoted below and you will see I said serious installs would be using these T1 and E1 interfaces. If you truely wanted to know what I use and how much I have installed, you only need look at the archives. The company I work for has a T1 fully deployed right now and are expecting a second one any week now. We have extra capacity in hardware reserved for a customer of ours who has expressed interest in upgrading soon and needs more lines. I used to even have a T1 card and channel bank to run my home system till I grew bored of it and decided it was better to spend my time doing other things than managing the phones at home. Currently that system minus the server is with VCCH.com and they use it occasionally for demonstrations. Btw, we are a textbook small office install according to the docs. And barely over the home use of a truely geeky person. I think you actually qualify as sub-small office. Also what the heck is FC? Fedora Core, Join that to the obvious question you will ask later, RH == Red Hat. Don't forget how to use google to look things up now. On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 14:07 -0600 Steven Critchfield wrote And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. So far I don't trust that many of the people using TDM cards are the ones who will tweak a system into a serious install. Look at previous threads about system load spikes where we have to pull teeth to get people to swap out of a FC kernel and into a generic kernel. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
My cost analysis showed that * is a slam dunk for the $ per feature. Heck adding voicemail from Nortel is about a $1000 venture by itself (call pilot, used). And that is just the start. Granted, programming text files is vexing... But if you hate that try programming with a 10 key and a 2 line interface on a nortel KSU. And btw, Nortel is one of the better ones for documentation. TDM400 has been reliable, it's just a bit squirrelly to get the options set right. I think in the greater scheme of things Digium produces a nice product and * is hard to beat. I think the quality of the power, system, and power supply can't be underrated when doing telephony. Everything I've read points to less then desirable results with sketchy hardware. Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Andrew Kohlsmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:25 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards On January 3, 2005 03:07 pm, Steven Critchfield wrote: And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills and if the time it takes for the install to pay for itself is raised significantly (like an added $1000 price tag for reliable equipment)... well... the writing on the wall is pretty clear. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Brian, People are making 100's of excuses for *'s inability to deal with analog lines and extensions, the bottom line is that it is a serious issue that we all hope to see resolved. The best one is analog lines are for babies Bottom line, the economics of analog vs. t1 usually work out so a T1 is easily justified when you have about 10+ analog lines, that means that offices with 20 to 30 users are borderline on being able to justify the expense of a T1. As best I can tell * can not really handle more than 50 to 100 calls at a time (on a single box), and then only if there is not a lot of other stuff (transcoding, vmail, etc.) going on. This makes * a slam dunk for environments that handle somewhere between 10 and 100 simultaneous calls, and a not so easy decision for users with less than 10 or more than ~100 simultaneous calls. The best workarounds at this time for small (analog) implementations is to use an external VoIP to PSTN gateway or a T1 interface and a used FXO/FXS channel bank. For larger installations (more than 2 to 4 t1s) there are other scalability issues, such as no SIP reinvite, meaning all of the call data streams must run across the PCI bus of the PC. This can be solved with a proxy like SIP Express Router aka SER and a media gateway like the Lucent Max TNT so * is only in the data stream when the features it provides are needed. Our range of customers and applications spans from 5 or 6 analog lines to a DS3 (672 digital lines), and we have quickly determined that the TDM400 in the majority of hardware combinations we have tried is not 100% reliable. We have tried old Dell PII 500s, New HP Xeon 3.0s, and everything in between, all quality system boards, power supplies, dedicated IRQs, hardware raid controllers, high quality NICs, etc. We have tried machines that can pass real time HDTV video/audio streams across the PCI bus with bit for bit accuracy (translate: no PCI latency). As far as all of the power supply related issues are concerned, it is not really the job of the power supply to FULLY regulate the power, it provides GOOD power to the system board and other components which are then expected to have integral voltage and current regulators suitable for their application. It is my understanding that all of the power for an FXO module comes off of the PCI bus, and only the FXS module requires power straight from the power supply, yet they both suffer from the same lock up issue, and the funny part is the driver has no idea the hardware is not responding. This is clearly a problem with the hardware/driver design. There does appear to be some combinations that work, but that is not acceptable, unless the exact requirements can be quantified and advertised. Find a good PSTN to VoIP gateway and forget the headaches... in time the TDM400 might improve, but not as a result of the long running rants in this forum. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 7:23 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards My cost analysis showed that * is a slam dunk for the $ per feature. Heck adding voicemail from Nortel is about a $1000 venture by itself (call pilot, used). And that is just the start. Granted, programming text files is vexing... But if you hate that try programming with a 10 key and a 2 line interface on a nortel KSU. And btw, Nortel is one of the better ones for documentation. TDM400 has been reliable, it's just a bit squirrelly to get the options set right. I think in the greater scheme of things Digium produces a nice product and * is hard to beat. I think the quality of the power, system, and power supply can't be underrated when doing telephony. Everything I've read points to less then desirable results with sketchy hardware. Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Andrew Kohlsmith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:25 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards On January 3, 2005 03:07 pm, Steven Critchfield wrote: And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. Unfortunately that makes Asterisk installs for small businesses more expensive than necessary. At US$500 for a T100P and US$300ish for a channel bank (FXS only, FXO is significantly more expensive!) plus your time and system for an Asterisk install it raises the bar for the small business to adopt Asterisk. The TDM400P would fit a very nice little niche if it worked reliably. Let's face it -- most businesses are looking at VOIP to reduce their telephone bills
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 20:14 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gosh, you sure are full of yourself. Looks like you didn't get enough caffeine into your body before responding. Ohh well You just shouldn't ASSume that everyone knows all of the abbreviations and when they ask you needn't be rude. Being condescending is the first sign that a consultant is shallow and not worth using. A *good* consultant will take the time to explain things and will never bash the situation that a customer or potential customer is in. Boy am I glad I am not a consultant and I don't have to deal with them very often. And I hope you understand that if all the effort you can put forth is to ask questions with no research behind the question, you won't make it very far yourself. Hardware and technology never become obsolete, they simply become outgrown. A customer's given choice in technology is typically made based on the best available balance of money, commitment, and need. Making high handed and unqualified statements is a waste of your time and mine. T-1's are rather unpleasant to move and for most small businesses are completely unnecessary, in my opinion. Funny. Obsolete is when the majority of people determine it would be better to be impaled by a red hot poker than use the technology. Well actually I think the thresh hold is quite a bit lower. How many serious companies are still using PDP's in production? Know of any one still seriously using 8088's on the desktop? T1's aren't anymore painful to move than several analog lines. Add to that that you don't need a T1 to use T1 interfaces as I'll point out below. While you may have the money to burn by having a t-1 at home, most small business owners would rather use what is necessary as opposed to what is extravegant. And as you so nicely put in your other post, customers who come off the dime are a joy to work with. And I suspect most of them wouldn't tinker with * they would go straight to Cisco or Nortel, or a brand name that works turn key. Maybe you should read and fully comprehend before starting replies. It is very helpful to do inline posting so you can see what it is your responding to. It is possible you might have figured out how much you missed if it was closer to what you where writing. Specifically I stated that at home I had a T1 card and a channel bank. There was never a mention of a T1 circuit. To finish connecting the dots for you, I did VoIP to the office and had 24 extension capability and about 17 actual extensions on my system at home. -Original Message- From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:59 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards You may need more coffee before responding to another message. On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 14:21 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven, If we grant that you are correct and that Digium and friends are making hobbyist products. Then what are the serious installs using? We're serious to the tune of 5 FXO ports and 3 FXS ports and I want to make sure we don't waste time on flaky hardware. I figured that as Digium built the hardware and wrote the original code they probably know it better then anyone else. You just seem to know a lot about the serious installs so I'm curious what you use and how many lines you run with it. Digium makes T1 and E1 interfaces. Take a moment and read what I have quoted below and you will see I said serious installs would be using these T1 and E1 interfaces. If you truely wanted to know what I use and how much I have installed, you only need look at the archives. The company I work for has a T1 fully deployed right now and are expecting a second one any week now. We have extra capacity in hardware reserved for a customer of ours who has expressed interest in upgrading soon and needs more lines. I used to even have a T1 card and channel bank to run my home system till I grew bored of it and decided it was better to spend my time doing other things than managing the phones at home. Currently that system minus the server is with VCCH.com and they use it occasionally for demonstrations. Btw, we are a textbook small office install according to the docs. And barely over the home use of a truely geeky person. I think you actually qualify as sub-small office. Also what the heck is FC? Fedora Core, Join that to the obvious question you will ask later, RH == Red Hat. Don't forget how to use google to look things up now. On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 14:07 -0600 Steven Critchfield wrote And we come full circle to a comment I made before that TDM cards are more for hobbyist than for real serious installs. A real install is probably going to use a T1/E1 interface and bypasses all the troubles listed in this thread. So far I don't trust that many
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Steven, I am starting to understand... you actually enjoy being a bully don't you :) Damon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:52 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 20:14 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gosh, you sure are full of yourself. Looks like you didn't get enough caffeine into your body before responding. Ohh well You just shouldn't ASSume that everyone knows all of the abbreviations and when they ask you needn't be rude. Being condescending is the first sign that a consultant is shallow and not worth using. A *good* consultant will take the time to explain things and will never bash the situation that a customer or potential customer is in. Boy am I glad I am not a consultant and I don't have to deal with them very often. And I hope you understand that if all the effort you can put forth is to ask questions with no research behind the question, you won't make it very far yourself. Hardware and technology never become obsolete, they simply become outgrown. A customer's given choice in technology is typically made based on the best available balance of money, commitment, and need. Making high handed and unqualified statements is a waste of your time and mine. T-1's are rather unpleasant to move and for most small businesses are completely unnecessary, in my opinion. Funny. Obsolete is when the majority of people determine it would be better to be impaled by a red hot poker than use the technology. Well actually I think the thresh hold is quite a bit lower. How many serious companies are still using PDP's in production? Know of any one still seriously using 8088's on the desktop? T1's aren't anymore painful to move than several analog lines. Add to that that you don't need a T1 to use T1 interfaces as I'll point out below. While you may have the money to burn by having a t-1 at home, most small business owners would rather use what is necessary as opposed to what is extravegant. And as you so nicely put in your other post, customers who come off the dime are a joy to work with. And I suspect most of them wouldn't tinker with * they would go straight to Cisco or Nortel, or a brand name that works turn key. Maybe you should read and fully comprehend before starting replies. It is very helpful to do inline posting so you can see what it is your responding to. It is possible you might have figured out how much you missed if it was closer to what you where writing. Specifically I stated that at home I had a T1 card and a channel bank. There was never a mention of a T1 circuit. To finish connecting the dots for you, I did VoIP to the office and had 24 extension capability and about 17 actual extensions on my system at home. -Original Message- From: Steven Critchfield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 2:59 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards You may need more coffee before responding to another message. On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 14:21 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Steven, If we grant that you are correct and that Digium and friends are making hobbyist products. Then what are the serious installs using? We're serious to the tune of 5 FXO ports and 3 FXS ports and I want to make sure we don't waste time on flaky hardware. I figured that as Digium built the hardware and wrote the original code they probably know it better then anyone else. You just seem to know a lot about the serious installs so I'm curious what you use and how many lines you run with it. Digium makes T1 and E1 interfaces. Take a moment and read what I have quoted below and you will see I said serious installs would be using these T1 and E1 interfaces. If you truely wanted to know what I use and how much I have installed, you only need look at the archives. The company I work for has a T1 fully deployed right now and are expecting a second one any week now. We have extra capacity in hardware reserved for a customer of ours who has expressed interest in upgrading soon and needs more lines. I used to even have a T1 card and channel bank to run my home system till I grew bored of it and decided it was better to spend my time doing other things than managing the phones at home. Currently that system minus the server is with VCCH.com and they use it occasionally for demonstrations. Btw, we are a textbook small office install according to the docs. And barely over the home use of a truely geeky person. I think you actually qualify as sub-small office. Also what the heck is FC? Fedora Core, Join that to the obvious
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Damon Estep wrote: Steven, I am starting to understand... you actually enjoy being a bully don't you :) Damon Heh, I think he's been rather tame really. In the past he would have complained about: a) Your top posting b) The fact that whatever mail client you're using has totally screwed the quoting c) The fact that you didn't even bother to trim the multiple asterisk-users notes from the bottom. :-) It's just usually a bad idea to say that Critch is full of himself. He's more knowledgeable on most subjects than most people. You can't say you weren't waiting with bated breath the second you saw a mail claiming he was full of himself! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:asterisk-users- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 9:52 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards On Mon, 2005-01-03 at 20:14 -0600, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gosh, you sure are full of yourself. Looks like you didn't get enough caffeine into your body before responding. Ohh well -- Cheers, Matt Riddell ___ Daily Asterisk News: http://www.sineapps.com/news.php for html http://www.sineapps.com/rssfeed.php for rss ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Where are mine? I logged 3 cases with digium on this issue and did not hear a thing... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrei (MPI) Sent: Monday, January 03, 2005 10:30 AM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards You guys probably don't know what Digium did recently to address TDM400 problem: - they've sent new FXO modules to all customers who were complaining about TDM/FXO issues. What I've heard from a Didigum reseller/supplier it might be a situation with specific telco lines here in US. The new FXO modules SOLVED my problem. I have stable Asterisk system in production for more than 3 weeks now. I used to have the recurring problem every day, in about 6-8 hours after server reboot / Asterisk restart / modules reload. Andrei Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On January 1, 2005 04:09 pm, Rich Adamson wrote: b. don't ever post anything to the -dev list regarding a TDM card as that is NOT the forum for digium cards or drivers, Eh? If you're hacking on the code for wctdm, -dev is most certainly an appropriate place to post. If you're just going there to bitch about it well no, that's not the right place. :-) c. digium support is not addressing the issue, and, d. the amount of effort required to support the TDM card (stop *, restart the drivers, start *) in its present condition is far greater then what any reasonable non-technical customer will endure. With regard to c) I think that Digium's doing their best to try and nail down the issue but it's eluding them, and they are keeping very quiet about it. (Head in the sand perhaps?) d) I completely agree with -- I would love to deploy these cards, up to a pair in a system, but I just can't at this point in time. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Sat, Jan 01, 2005 at 07:23:58PM -0500, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: [...] What if, for example, the TDM400 issues were a cumulative thing? If you had over 6dB of attenuation on the PSTN loop, coupled with greater than 5V potential on the neutral-ground of your elecrical receptacle, compounded by a cheap power supply, exascerbated by a Via-chipset, would you not be virtually guaranteed some strange behaviour? But if your PSTN was -3dB, your electrical feed derived from a power conditioner, your power supply manufactured by PC Power Cooling, and a ServerWorks chipset-based MoBo, would your system always be faultless? Can you recommend any favorite motherboards? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 9:12 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards [...] I'm running older, but solid hardware and not seeing any issues. I'm using a Compaq Proliant 1850R Gen1 dual PII 400 with 512MB ram, GB ethernet, and SATA Hardware RAID. Cheap, efficient, redundant. And for a Debian box, good enough. [...] I just have to add my $0.02 here. I've got a PIII-550 Proliant 800 that NEVER has any issues like this. It's running Debian woody, and has a TDM400P that never has any of these issues. It's also running 208v from a high quality UPS. As a telephone system should, it simply works. It is forgotten about, and used andused and used. No one has to do much of anything to it, and no one has to make excuses for it (sorry..it's VoIP). Anyone who wants to run junk hardware and beta code pretty much loses their right to complain about the results of doing so. Daryl ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
[...] I'm running older, but solid hardware and not seeing any issues. I'm using a Compaq Proliant 1850R Gen1 dual PII 400 with 512MB ram, GB ethernet, and SATA Hardware RAID. Cheap, efficient, redundant. And for a Debian box, good enough. [...] I just have to add my $0.02 here. I've got a PIII-550 Proliant 800 that NEVER has any issues like this. It's running Debian woody, and has a TDM400P that never has any of these issues. It's also running 208v from a high quality UPS. If we all look back over the archives, we see several postings just like the two above, and several more that are the direct opposite. What we don't have from anyone is any form of analysis as to why the TDM seems to be more sensitive to certain systems then to others. No one really knows whether the issues are associated with a certain distro, PIII vs PIV, pci bus support chips, power supplies, ups, etc, etc. What makes the problem identification tough is the failures tend to occur at least a week after a reload. Several people have noted that swapping Mobo from a PIV to a PIII cleaned up their echo problems, but in all likelihood, the PIII had nothing to do with it. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
This has been an interesting discussion. I'll chime in with my experience here. I have two servers. One with the cheapest motherboard and athlon processor I could find on Newegg.com. The other is a 1999 era motherboard with a Via C3 processor, again a bargain basement special. The Athlon system has a decent power supply - 400+ watt, the Via has a very generic PS that came with the case - 300 watt tops. On both system I have TDM cards, the Athlon has a 4 port FXS and two x100p's, the Via has a 2 port FXS. Both systems are in production if you could call it that because they handle little traffic - home/hobby systems. I have had no problems at all with the tdm cards or Asterisk. I occassionally lose my network on the Athlon machine - I chalk that up to the fact that I'm currently sharing an IRQ with two ethernet cards and an X100P. I'm thinking of ditching the two x100p's in my Athlon machine for a TDM card with FXO modules to free up a slot and hopefully the burdened IRQ. Based on what I'm reading here I probably should think *really hard* about that. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This has been an interesting discussion. I'll chime in with my experience here. I have two servers. One with the cheapest motherboard and athlon processor I could find on Newegg.com. The other is a 1999 era motherboard with a Via C3 processor, again a bargain basement special. The Athlon system has a decent power supply - 400+ watt, the Via has a very generic PS that came with the case - 300 watt tops. On both system I have TDM cards, the Athlon has a 4 port FXS and two x100p's, the Via has a 2 port FXS. Both systems are in production if you could call it that because they handle little traffic - home/hobby systems. I have had no problems at all with the tdm cards or Asterisk. I occassionally lose my network on the Athlon machine - I chalk that up to the fact that I'm currently sharing an IRQ with two ethernet cards and an X100P. I'm thinking of ditching the two x100p's in my Athlon machine for a TDM card with FXO modules to free up a slot and hopefully the burdened IRQ. Based on what I'm reading here I probably should think *really hard* about that. If I may, I'd like to ask you some general questions about the environment these systems are running in. - How are these systems powered and grounded? - Are the lines feeding the FXO cards coming from the PSTN, or are they being fed by a PBX or similar? (basically, how long is the loop between the card and whatever is feeding it?) You are successfully running systems that many would tell you to expect problems with. The TDM400 FXO modules are generally agreed to be an improvement over the X100P, so if you are having no troubles now, it is entirely plausible that migrating to TDM400-based FXOs will work for you as well. Unfortunately, there is no way of guaranteeing that, and it's your money, so I can't advise you much more than that. Frankly, what is most interesting is the fact that your systems are trouble-free. Certainly if you were to ask if such systems could be put into production, you would probably be advised not to expect much. There seem to be a lot of variables with these TDM400s. Cheers, Jim. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Dorn Hetzel wrote: On Sat, Jan 01, 2005 at 07:23:58PM -0500, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: [...] What if, for example, the TDM400 issues were a cumulative thing? If you had over 6dB of attenuation on the PSTN loop, coupled with greater than 5V potential on the neutral-ground of your elecrical receptacle, compounded by a cheap power supply, exascerbated by a Via-chipset, would you not be virtually guaranteed some strange behaviour? But if your PSTN was -3dB, your electrical feed derived from a power conditioner, your power supply manufactured by PC Power Cooling, and a ServerWorks chipset-based MoBo, would your system always be faultless? Can you recommend any favorite motherboards? That is the million dollar question. Chipsets and MoBos seem to change so fast that I've lost confidence in my ability to make sense of it all. The Intel and ServerWorks chipsets are generally well regarded; Via chipsets are almost universally avoided for audio work. The linux-audio-dev folks seem willing to give nVidia's nForce chipsets a chance. In general, I would avoid PC-class motherboards, and go with server-class motherboards. That being said, the ultimate goal would be to find a way to build a reliable Asterisk system on *any* half-decent motherboard. Personally, I'm of the mind that power (the power supply, the AC being supplied to the system, and grounding) plays as much of a role as the motherboard does, but that is a working theory only. I wonder if clean power on a lousy MoBo might serve as well as dirty power on a quality MoBo. If one reads about power quality issues, the symptoms of dirty power sound suspiciously similar to the kinds of problems people are having with their analog Asterisk cards. I'm also wondering about the TDM400s ability to handle PSTN loops at the extreme limits. Since those TDM cards were probably developed largely in a lab environment, the telco lines would have been simulated with a channel bank or C.O. simulator. What happens when the lines fall out of certain limits? Annenuation, loop current, and longitudinal imbalance are all factors that proprietary PBXs are able to correct within fairly wide limits - but they do have limits (a Norstar, for example, tends to have trouble pulling dial tone when attenuation exceeds 7dB). Has the TDM400/FXO been similarly optimized? It must have limits; what are they? I think what we are all looking for is some empirical evidence of what conditions cause the biggest problems. Is it the TDM400 that is to blame (either hardware or drivers)? Or is it Linux? PC Hardware? Telco Lines? Electrical? Grounding? A combination of some or all of those factors? No one seems to know for certain. Where much frustration comes from is the fact that a typical PBX simply does not suffer from these troubles. We've come to expect that our telecom equipment handles these little noises for us (so much so that we're suprised to find that these are genuine engineering issues). With Asterisk, some of the responsibility for correcting those problems falls to us, the system designers. Unfortunately, a comprehensive engineering methodology for analog devices on Asterisk does not yet exist. It's all kind of hit-and-miss. Cheers, Jim. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
One thing to look at is the proximedy to the powersupply of your audio devices. Some mobos have their chipset integrated in very closely to their power supply pins. With an unclean power source the fluxuations would be enough to add some of the white noise which would give you the whine. Excellent examples of that are on the really small all in ones. Sometimes power source it self may be in quesiton, and a cheap ups with nothing else on it would probably solve that one quickly. Addionally, you may want to see if your power supply offers any sort of shielding. Mylar can offer a small amount of shielding, but some power supplys won't cool effectively, and the results of that are similar to fireworks- (see tom's hardware guide to power supplies)- Alternatively, you find some cases offer no shielding to the outside with their plastic constructs. A good quality case may be in order, and if you are racked, you may want to make sure one of the other machines in the rack may not be grounding out onto the rack, thus causing additional headaches. For my setup, I'm not using the onboard stuff in favor of an old sb live. I't moved of to a slot farily away from the digium board , and too close for my comfort to the networking cards. I gain fairly good quality, and not enough white noise for me to really pick it up. In my house, there are a few spots where power isn't the cleanest, so I'm certain that I'm getting at least some noise, despite every machine is fed from their own ups :) Hope that helps- T Jim Van Meggelen wrote: Dorn Hetzel wrote: On Sat, Jan 01, 2005 at 07:23:58PM -0500, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: [...] What if, for example, the TDM400 issues were a cumulative thing? If you had over 6dB of attenuation on the PSTN loop, coupled with greater than 5V potential on the neutral-ground of your elecrical receptacle, compounded by a cheap power supply, exascerbated by a Via-chipset, would you not be virtually guaranteed some strange behaviour? But if your PSTN was -3dB, your electrical feed derived from a power conditioner, your power supply manufactured by PC Power Cooling, and a ServerWorks chipset-based MoBo, would your system always be faultless? Can you recommend any favorite motherboards? That is the million dollar question. Chipsets and MoBos seem to change so fast that I've lost confidence in my ability to make sense of it all. The Intel and ServerWorks chipsets are generally well regarded; Via chipsets are almost universally avoided for audio work. The linux-audio-dev folks seem willing to give nVidia's nForce chipsets a chance. In general, I would avoid PC-class motherboards, and go with server-class motherboards. That being said, the ultimate goal would be to find a way to build a reliable Asterisk system on *any* half-decent motherboard. Personally, I'm of the mind that power (the power supply, the AC being supplied to the system, and grounding) plays as much of a role as the motherboard does, but that is a working theory only. I wonder if clean power on a lousy MoBo might serve as well as dirty power on a quality MoBo. If one reads about power quality issues, the symptoms of dirty power sound suspiciously similar to the kinds of problems people are having with their analog Asterisk cards. I'm also wondering about the TDM400s ability to handle PSTN loops at the extreme limits. Since those TDM cards were probably developed largely in a lab environment, the telco lines would have been simulated with a channel bank or C.O. simulator. What happens when the lines fall out of certain limits? Annenuation, loop current, and longitudinal imbalance are all factors that proprietary PBXs are able to correct within fairly wide limits - but they do have limits (a Norstar, for example, tends to have trouble pulling dial tone when attenuation exceeds 7dB). Has the TDM400/FXO been similarly optimized? It must have limits; what are they? I think what we are all looking for is some empirical evidence of what conditions cause the biggest problems. Is it the TDM400 that is to blame (either hardware or drivers)? Or is it Linux? PC Hardware? Telco Lines? Electrical? Grounding? A combination of some or all of those factors? No one seems to know for certain. Where much frustration comes from is the fact that a typical PBX simply does not suffer from these troubles. We've come to expect that our telecom equipment handles these little noises for us (so much so that we're suprised to find that these are genuine engineering issues). With Asterisk, some of the responsibility for correcting those problems falls to us, the system designers. Unfortunately, a comprehensive engineering methodology for analog devices on Asterisk does not yet exist. It's all kind of hit-and-miss. Cheers, Jim. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Victor Rini wrote: This has been an interesting discussion. I'll chime in with my experience here. I have two servers. One with the cheapest motherboard and athlon processor I could find on Newegg.com. The other is a 1999 era motherboard with a Via C3 processor, again a bargain basement special. The Athlon system has a decent power supply - 400+ watt, the Via has a very generic PS that came with the case - 300 watt tops. On both system I have TDM cards, the Athlon has a 4 port FXS and two x100p's, the Via has a 2 port FXS. Both systems are in production if you could call it that because they handle little traffic - home/hobby systems. I have had no problems at all with the tdm cards or Asterisk. I occassionally lose my network on the Athlon machine - I chalk that up to the fact that I'm currently sharing an IRQ with two ethernet cards and an X100P. I'm thinking of ditching the two x100p's in my Athlon machine for a TDM card with FXO modules to free up a slot and hopefully the burdened IRQ. Based on what I'm reading here I probably should think *really hard* about that. I'd stick with the X100Ps for now. Two of my systems where X100s have been replaced by TDM FXOs, have seen a drop in reliability - the well noted FXO fails to respond to either calls from the PSTN or take calls from internal phones. Driver reloads and sometimes machine reboots are required to restore operation. These are systems seeing small office loads - 30 to 70 calls a day. One of these, which only contained 2 X100s, ran absolutely trouble free for a year and has required 2 reboots since switching to a single 4 FXO TDM. It is interesting to see there have been no posts to this thread from small office load users saying, I am using TDM FXO's and have not had any problems at all. All my contact with others in similar situations to myself have elicited the same experiences. Based on the above and following, I'd say the TDM FXO's have issues: 1. The following line in wctdm.c : /* Try to track issues that plague slot one FXO's */ 2. Digium acknowledge there is a problem and I am currently testing a driver modification for them. Looking at the FXS modules, I too get Power Alarm messages on a semi-regular basis, although they seem harmless. It is hard to see how the power supply is involved - short of a PSU suffering very poor regulation. These messages are created by interrupts generated when power dissipation in various transistors external to the ProSLIC, exceed programmed limits. To quote from the data sheet: This feature protects the external transistors from fault conditions and, combined with the loop voltage and current monitors, allows diagnosis of the type of fault condition present on the line. Anyone interested in learning more, should read page 27 of the Si3210/11 data sheet, which is available from www.silabs.com, after a free registration. Regards, Richard ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Victor Rini wrote: This has been an interesting discussion. I'll chime in with my experience here. I have two servers. One with the cheapest motherboard and athlon processor I could find on Newegg.com. The other is a 1999 era motherboard with a Via C3 processor, again a bargain basement special. The Athlon system has a decent power supply - 400+ watt, the Via has a very generic PS that came with the case - 300 watt tops. On both system I have TDM cards, the Athlon has a 4 port FXS and two x100p's, the Via has a 2 port FXS. Both systems are in production if you could call it that because they handle little traffic - home/hobby systems. I have had no problems at all with the tdm cards or Asterisk. I occassionally lose my network on the Athlon machine - I chalk that up to the fact that I'm currently sharing an IRQ with two ethernet cards and an X100P. I'm thinking of ditching the two x100p's in my Athlon machine for a TDM card with FXO modules to free up a slot and hopefully the burdened IRQ. Based on what I'm reading here I probably should think *really hard* about that. I'd stick with the X100Ps for now. Two of my systems where X100s have been replaced by TDM FXOs, have seen a drop in reliability - the well noted FXO fails to respond to either calls from the PSTN or take calls from internal phones. Driver reloads and sometimes machine reboots are required to restore operation. These are systems seeing small office loads - 30 to 70 calls a day. One of these, which only contained 2 X100s, ran absolutely trouble free for a year and has required 2 reboots since switching to a single 4 FXO TDM. It is interesting to see there have been no posts to this thread from small office load users saying, I am using TDM FXO's and have not had any problems at all. All my contact with others in similar situations to myself have elicited the same experiences. Based on the above and following, I'd say the TDM FXO's have issues: 1. The following line in wctdm.c : /* Try to track issues that plague slot one FXO's */ 2. Digium acknowledge there is a problem and I am currently testing a driver modification for them. Have you noticed that a TDM with fxo modules is more/less stable then a TDM with only fxs modules? Gut feeling (no reasonable analysis at all) from various postings tend to suggest the TDM with fxo's is less stable. Would you agree or not? Also, could you share the driver mod? ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Rich Adamson wrote:
Have you noticed that a TDM with fxo modules is more/less stable then
a TDM with only fxs modules?
Gut feeling (no reasonable analysis at all) from various postings tend
to suggest the TDM with fxo's is less stable. Would you agree or not?
Yes.
Also, could you share the driver mod?
It is a simple one liner.
Index: wctdm.c
===
RCS file: /usr/cvsroot/zaptel/wctdm.c,v
retrieving revision 1.90
diff -u -r1.90 wctdm.c
--- wctdm.c 9 Nov 2004 14:45:20 - 1.90
+++ wctdm.c 29 Nov 2004 15:35:46 -
@@ -1387,6 +1387,7 @@
#endif
signed char b;
int poopy = 0;
+ reset_spi(wc,card);
/* Try to track issues that plague slot one FXO's */
b = wctdm_getreg(wc, card, 5);
if ((b 0x2) || !(b 0x8)) {
Since adding it, I have not had any problems, but it will take another
couple of months before I know if it has had any effect.
Regards,
Richard
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Thanks, I've applied the fix to two systems here. Guess I'll have to
wait for recurrence as well. But, hopefully I'll have to wait
forever. :)
Rich
Have you noticed that a TDM with fxo modules is more/less stable then
a TDM with only fxs modules?
Gut feeling (no reasonable analysis at all) from various postings tend
to suggest the TDM with fxo's is less stable. Would you agree or not?
Yes.
Also, could you share the driver mod?
It is a simple one liner.
Index: wctdm.c
===
RCS file: /usr/cvsroot/zaptel/wctdm.c,v
retrieving revision 1.90
diff -u -r1.90 wctdm.c
--- wctdm.c 9 Nov 2004 14:45:20 - 1.90
+++ wctdm.c 29 Nov 2004 15:35:46 -
@@ -1387,6 +1387,7 @@
#endif
signed char b;
int poopy = 0;
+ reset_spi(wc,card);
/* Try to track issues that plague slot one FXO's */
b = wctdm_getreg(wc, card, 5);
if ((b 0x2) || !(b 0x8)) {
Since adding it, I have not had any problems, but it will take another
couple of months before I know if it has had any effect.
Regards,
Richard
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---End of Original Message-
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Jim Van Meggelen wrote: If I may, I'd like to ask you some general questions about the environment these systems are running in. - How are these systems powered and grounded? Not optimally by a longshot. On the Athlon machine, my main machine, all the equipment is plugged into 2to3 prong adapters. A ground tester shows that there is ground but I don't think the outlet is wired for ground - it's probably grounded by accident. The situation on the Via C3 machine is even worse. I have no ground on that outlet and no way of wiring it for ground short (no pun) of improvising some sort of ground by drilling into concrete or some such thing. I've never looked into it - just crossed my fingers and wished for the best. This system is my lower use system. I don't get many calls on it but I've never had to reboot it because of problems with the TDM400 or Asterisk. I dial out on the one phone connected to the system occassionally and I usually have availability and when I don't it's usually because the network has gone out on the Athlon box - the two boxes are iax/ethernet connected. - Are the lines feeding the FXO cards coming from the PSTN, or are they being fed by a PBX or similar? (basically, how long is the loop between the card and whatever is feeding it?) Yes, the lines come from the pstn. I pulled a run of Cat 5 along the outside of the house underneath the overhang of the cedar shingle siding for about 20-25 feet from the demarc through a drill hole to the Athlon box. You are successfully running systems that many would tell you to expect problems with. The TDM400 FXO modules are generally agreed to be an improvement over the X100P, so if you are having no troubles now, it is entirely plausible that migrating to TDM400-based FXOs will work for you as well. Unfortunately, there is no way of guaranteeing that, and it's your money, so I can't advise you much more than that. Frankly, what is most interesting is the fact that your systems are trouble-free. Certainly if you were to ask if such systems could be put into production, you would probably be advised not to expect much. You know what? To top it all off, I also use both systems as routers. On the Athlon box, I have three ethernet adapters one of which is a via-rhine embedded adapter. I run openvpn, [EMAIL PROTECTED] and a netfilter firewall along with Asterisk on that Athlon box. One adapter is connected to the cable modem and another to a WAP. The Via C3 system has two ethernet cards as well and runs [EMAIL PROTECTED] with Asterisk. Both systems are connected with a cheapie powerline/homeplug bridge. My only problem with all this is with the network on the Athlon box going down once in a great while. An ifdown/ifup is usually what it takes to fix it. There seem to be a lot of variables with these TDM400s. Cheers, Jim. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Jim Van Meggelen wrote: Frankly, what is most interesting is the fact that your systems are trouble-free. Certainly if you were to ask if such systems could be put into production, you would probably be advised not to expect much. One last thing. I have a somewhat special PSTN connection. I subscribe to comcast digital phone which is dial-tone through the cable tv network! Every installation includes an APC unit that is plugged into the subcriber's power to maintain dial-tone in case of a power outage but I'd also venture that the subscriber's power is tapped to drive ringing as well. Isn't that convenient? Instead of the cable company paying the electric utility for driving ring voltage you the subscriber do that directly. There seem to be a lot of variables with these TDM400s. Cheers, Jim. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On January 1, 2005 04:09 pm, Rich Adamson wrote: b. don't ever post anything to the -dev list regarding a TDM card as that is NOT the forum for digium cards or drivers, Eh? If you're hacking on the code for wctdm, -dev is most certainly an appropriate place to post. If you're just going there to bitch about it well no, that's not the right place. :-) c. digium support is not addressing the issue, and, d. the amount of effort required to support the TDM card (stop *, restart the drivers, start *) in its present condition is far greater then what any reasonable non-technical customer will endure. With regard to c) I think that Digium's doing their best to try and nail down the issue but it's eluding them, and they are keeping very quiet about it. (Head in the sand perhaps?) d) I completely agree with -- I would love to deploy these cards, up to a pair in a system, but I just can't at this point in time. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On January 1, 2005 06:24 pm, Steven Critchfield wrote: 1. Power alarms. WTF does that mean? Wish I had some support docs. 2. On bootup, Excessive leakage module x, ProSLIC failed Auto Configuration. Again, WTF? Reboot and it's ok. But, just a reboot after driving 100+ miles to the client site is not a good option. 3. On bootup, a LED won't light. When zapata gets to it, it can't find the channel. Usually means a complete power cycle to get it to work. Those first 3 all sound like you have a problem with power supply and consistency. You don't mention what modules you have in the cards, but I bet you have FXS ports and have too light of a power supply for the job. Everyone keeps coming back to this light power supply and I just do not buy it. Period. I'm sorry, Steven, but it's bullshit. I'm speaking as an electronics design engineer and as someone who's been playing with this kind of stuff for the better part of a decade. light power supply is like irritable bowel syndrome -- it's what you call the problem when you haven't been able to isolate the cause and the patient is demanding to know what's wrong with him. Xeon 2.4GHz system, triple-redundant power supplies, Supermicro server motherboard, hot-swap everything. +5 and +12V lines are within +/- 40mV of their target voltages, measured with a 100MHz DSO -- it is *not* a power issue. P3-700 with 12 IDE drives in it, 350 or 450W (but decent make) power supply: Power quality is slightly lower but still what I would call acceptable. I get the issue where two of the three FXS modules will be seen. modprobe pauses for a good 5-6 seconds when the third module disappears -- unload/reload and it will find it, or not. unload/reload until it finds all three and you're good to go. ... Except that I can't receive faxes through it. I can send them just fine (there are two different fax machines connected up to 2 of the 3 ports, and both exhibit the problem.) Use a T100P+Adit600 FXS channel bank and my fax rate (in and out) is 100%. (this is IAX2 to a PRI connected to another system in the same location, btw, so it's not a FOIP issue.) Unplug the T100P+channel bank and swap in TDM430P... can't receive worth a shit, and that's all that's changed. I'm using app_rxfax right now instead of Dial()'ing the fax machine on the TDM port, and my rx rate is 100%. Weird, eh? Perhaps *some* of the TDM issues are power issues but the more I read and experience with them on my own the more unlikely I think it is. Truth be told there isn't a hell of a lot of power required to ring a goddamned phone. we're talking 20mA loops here and 85VAC. There is something more insidious at work than just bad power. -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Truman Beal wrote: One thing to look at is the proximedy to the powersupply of your audio devices. Some mobos have their chipset integrated in very closely to their power supply pins. With an unclean power source the fluxuations would be enough to add some of the white noise which would give you the whine. Excellent examples of that are on the really small all in ones. Sometimes power source it self may be in quesiton, and a cheap ups with nothing else on it would probably solve that one quickly. I have to warn people about cheap UPS units. They have to be a *POWER-CONDITIONED* UPS to gain the power quality benefits. Many *cheap*UPS*units*do*not*clean*up*the*power!* Some even make it worse. If it doesn't say power conditioned, it isn't; it's nothing more than a battery back up (you will not like what these cheap UPS units do to your input power when running on batteries). For eample, APC Smart-UPS models provide power conditioning. ABC Back-UPS do NOT. Run a Back-UPS on battery only and check out the harmonics on the output - ouch! It's AC, but it is NOT a sine wave - it's a square (some of them deliver a stepped square or pseudo-sinusoidal waveform). Not clean at all. Just remember that power conditioners and UPSs are not the same thing. You can buy stand-alone power conditioners (PowerVar and OneAC make these), stand-alone UPSs (many cheaper UPS units are this type), or UPSs with built in power conditioners (PowerVar, OneAC, and APC). Know what kind of UPS you are buying. If you see them trying to tell you something about any kind of protection, without actually saying the magic words power conditioned, you cannot be sure that your UPS is giving you clean power. Addionally, you may want to see if your power supply offers any sort of shielding. Mylar can offer a small amount of shielding, but some power supplys won't cool effectively, and the results of that are similar to fireworks- (see tom's hardware guide to power supplies)- Spend the extra money and get PC Power Cooling (no, they don't pay me, they are simply the best - no contest). Alternatively, you find some cases offer no shielding to the outside with their plastic constructs. A good quality case may be in order, and if you are racked, you may want to make sure one of the other machines in the rack may not be grounding out onto the rack, thus causing additional headaches. Noise could be getting in from all over, eh? For my setup, I'm not using the onboard stuff in favor of an old sb live. What's the SB live for? Console? I't moved of to a slot farily away from the digium board , and too close for my comfort to the networking cards. I gain fairly good quality, and not enough white noise for me to really pick it up. In my house, there are a few spots where power isn't the cleanest, so I'm certain that I'm getting at least some noise, despite every machine is fed from their own ups :) [here he goes again . . .] Are they power-conditioned UPSs? Hope that helps- T Jim Van Meggelen wrote: Dorn Hetzel wrote: On Sat, Jan 01, 2005 at 07:23:58PM -0500, Jim Van Meggelen wrote: [...] What if, for example, the TDM400 issues were a cumulative thing? If you had over 6dB of attenuation on the PSTN loop, coupled with greater than 5V potential on the neutral-ground of your elecrical receptacle, compounded by a cheap power supply, exascerbated by a Via-chipset, would you not be virtually guaranteed some strange behaviour? But if your PSTN was -3dB, your electrical feed derived from a power conditioner, your power supply manufactured by PC Power Cooling, and a ServerWorks chipset-based MoBo, would your system always be faultless? Can you recommend any favorite motherboards? That is the million dollar question. Chipsets and MoBos seem to change so fast that I've lost confidence in my ability to make sense of it all. The Intel and ServerWorks chipsets are generally well regarded; Via chipsets are almost universally avoided for audio work. The linux-audio-dev folks seem willing to give nVidia's nForce chipsets a chance. In general, I would avoid PC-class motherboards, and go with server-class motherboards. That being said, the ultimate goal would be to find a way to build a reliable Asterisk system on *any* half-decent motherboard. Personally, I'm of the mind that power (the power supply, the AC being supplied to the system, and grounding) plays as much of a role as the motherboard does, but that is a working theory only. I wonder if clean power on a lousy MoBo might serve as well as dirty power on a quality MoBo. If one reads about power quality issues, the symptoms of dirty power sound suspiciously similar to the kinds of problems people are having with their analog Asterisk cards. I'm also wondering about the TDM400s ability to handle PSTN loops at the extreme limits. Since those TDM cards were probably developed largely in a lab environment, the telco
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
I am going to be putting together my first * system using FXO/FXS interfaces. All the systems I have set up thus far have been pure VoIP setups. The system I need to set up should have 3 FXO interfaces and 1 FXS interface, as well as several SIP phones. I have noticed people complaining about Digium's TDM cards - are these isolated incidents or are these cards unreliable? I intend to get the TDM400P with the necessary FXO/FXS boards - can I expect the installation to be somewhat straightforward? Any tips to avoid grief? I think the best that anyone can estimate at this time is that a problem exits of some sort and it might be related to a combination of factors, one of which seems to involve specific motherboard designs. There are far too many people complaining about the same issues with the TDM card, several of which opened cases with digium support and got no response. It should be fairly obvious from the many postings on this list since that card was announced that something is not right, and at least some of those systems have digiums T1 cards on the exact same pci bus that are operating just fine. If you read through the archives, you'll see a number of people flapping their jaws using adjectives and adverbs about what they think the issue happens to be, but the majority (if not all) don't have a TDM card and apparently wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. What is obvious at this point is: a. no one on the -user list is going to fix (or even hint with any degree of authority) the root-cause b. don't ever post anything to the -dev list regarding a TDM card as that is NOT the forum for digium cards or drivers, c. digium support is not addressing the issue, and, d. the amount of effort required to support the TDM card (stop *, restart the drivers, start *) in its present condition is far greater then what any reasonable non-technical customer will endure. Since this has been an on-going battle, I'd suggest avoiding the TDM card totally, or, take the 50-50 risk to see how high you can raise your frustration level. Would it make more sense to get 3 cheap X100P's and use some kind of ATA for the FXS? Will obviously save a whole bunch of money, but will there be significant added complexity? Three x100p's are likely to cause even more issues due to the high level of system interrupts. (Note: digium has removed them from their web site.) Current experience... three spa-3000's are far more stable then a TDM card, and you'll get three fxo's plus three fxs's for less money. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
What exactly are people seeing when they have issues with their TDM card? Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Rich Adamson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 3:09 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards I am going to be putting together my first * system using FXO/FXS interfaces. All the systems I have set up thus far have been pure VoIP setups. The system I need to set up should have 3 FXO interfaces and 1 FXS interface, as well as several SIP phones. I have noticed people complaining about Digium's TDM cards - are these isolated incidents or are these cards unreliable? I intend to get the TDM400P with the necessary FXO/FXS boards - can I expect the installation to be somewhat straightforward? Any tips to avoid grief? I think the best that anyone can estimate at this time is that a problem exits of some sort and it might be related to a combination of factors, one of which seems to involve specific motherboard designs. There are far too many people complaining about the same issues with the TDM card, several of which opened cases with digium support and got no response. It should be fairly obvious from the many postings on this list since that card was announced that something is not right, and at least some of those systems have digiums T1 cards on the exact same pci bus that are operating just fine. If you read through the archives, you'll see a number of people flapping their jaws using adjectives and adverbs about what they think the issue happens to be, but the majority (if not all) don't have a TDM card and apparently wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. What is obvious at this point is: a. no one on the -user list is going to fix (or even hint with any degree of authority) the root-cause b. don't ever post anything to the -dev list regarding a TDM card as that is NOT the forum for digium cards or drivers, c. digium support is not addressing the issue, and, d. the amount of effort required to support the TDM card (stop *, restart the drivers, start *) in its present condition is far greater then what any reasonable non-technical customer will endure. Since this has been an on-going battle, I'd suggest avoiding the TDM card totally, or, take the 50-50 risk to see how high you can raise your frustration level. Would it make more sense to get 3 cheap X100P's and use some kind of ATA for the FXS? Will obviously save a whole bunch of money, but will there be significant added complexity? Three x100p's are likely to cause even more issues due to the high level of system interrupts. (Note: digium has removed them from their web site.) Current experience... three spa-3000's are far more stable then a TDM card, and you'll get three fxo's plus three fxs's for less money. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Current experience... three spa-3000's are far more stable then a TDM card, and you'll get three fxo's plus three fxs's for less money. I have experienced nothing but grief when trying to set up the PSTN part of the SPA-3000. Everything from crackly audio to fast busies. Has anybody tried the Clipcomm CG-410 4-port FXO gateway (http://www.voipsupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=241)? -- Nabeel Jafferali tel: 416.491.9136 (toronto) 646.225.7426 (new york) fwd: 46990 email/msn : nabeelatjafferali.net ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
I personally have seen: 1) power alarms on FXO ports. It appears that rebooting the server is the fix for this problem. I have not seen it enough to give definative answers to questions about unloading/reloading the kernal modules to clear this condition. But my experience is that once a port goes into power alarm, it's basically dead and ignores incoming calls at that point. 2) Two TDM cards, one worked, one didn't in same motherboard at the same time. Seperate and unique and non-shared IRQ's. Second card had problems dialing out and choppy voice. Swapped the two cards on the motherboard between the exact same slots, both now both work just fine. Lyle - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 4:34 PM Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards What exactly are people seeing when they have issues with their TDM card? Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Rich Adamson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 3:09 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards I am going to be putting together my first * system using FXO/FXS interfaces. All the systems I have set up thus far have been pure VoIP setups. The system I need to set up should have 3 FXO interfaces and 1 FXS interface, as well as several SIP phones. I have noticed people complaining about Digium's TDM cards - are these isolated incidents or are these cards unreliable? I intend to get the TDM400P with the necessary FXO/FXS boards - can I expect the installation to be somewhat straightforward? Any tips to avoid grief? I think the best that anyone can estimate at this time is that a problem exits of some sort and it might be related to a combination of factors, one of which seems to involve specific motherboard designs. There are far too many people complaining about the same issues with the TDM card, several of which opened cases with digium support and got no response. It should be fairly obvious from the many postings on this list since that card was announced that something is not right, and at least some of those systems have digiums T1 cards on the exact same pci bus that are operating just fine. If you read through the archives, you'll see a number of people flapping their jaws using adjectives and adverbs about what they think the issue happens to be, but the majority (if not all) don't have a TDM card and apparently wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. What is obvious at this point is: a. no one on the -user list is going to fix (or even hint with any degree of authority) the root-cause b. don't ever post anything to the -dev list regarding a TDM card as that is NOT the forum for digium cards or drivers, c. digium support is not addressing the issue, and, d. the amount of effort required to support the TDM card (stop *, restart the drivers, start *) in its present condition is far greater then what any reasonable non-technical customer will endure. Since this has been an on-going battle, I'd suggest avoiding the TDM card totally, or, take the 50-50 risk to see how high you can raise your frustration level. Would it make more sense to get 3 cheap X100P's and use some kind of ATA for the FXS? Will obviously save a whole bunch of money, but will there be significant added complexity? Three x100p's are likely to cause even more issues due to the high level of system interrupts. (Note: digium has removed them from their web site.) Current experience... three spa-3000's are far more stable then a TDM card, and you'll get three fxo's plus three fxs's for less money. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly are people seeing when they have issues with their TDM card? I have four of them in service, in everyday use--one RD, one home, and two small office. None has given us the least problem, ever. One caveat that might be germane, given the complaints of others on the list: mine do station (FXS) functions only. We use all of them on SuperMicro mobos, which allow use of the APIC-style IRQs. My customers are very happy with them. B. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly are people seeing when they have issues with their TDM card? Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) Since you asked, and since I'm well into this bottle of Merlot on New Year's day: 1. Power alarms. WTF does that mean? Wish I had some support docs. 2. On bootup, Excessive leakage module x, ProSLIC failed Auto Configuration. Again, WTF? Reboot and it's ok. But, just a reboot after driving 100+ miles to the client site is not a good option. 3. On bootup, a LED won't light. When zapata gets to it, it can't find the channel. Usually means a complete power cycle to get it to work. 4. A TDM card that isn't recognized at all. DOA. 5. Impedience matching to eliminate humm? I'm calling Matt on Monday, and hopefully he'll RMA these cards. I hope that everyone that has a life is out enjoying the New Year. Cheers, Mike -- Michael Welter Introspect Telephony Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.674.2575 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.introspect.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Sat, 2005-01-01 at 16:14 -0700, Michael Welter wrote: Since you asked, and since I'm well into this bottle of Merlot on New Year's day: 1. Power alarms. WTF does that mean? Wish I had some support docs. 2. On bootup, Excessive leakage module x, ProSLIC failed Auto Configuration. Again, WTF? Reboot and it's ok. But, just a reboot after driving 100+ miles to the client site is not a good option. 3. On bootup, a LED won't light. When zapata gets to it, it can't find the channel. Usually means a complete power cycle to get it to work. Those first 3 all sound like you have a problem with power supply and consistency. You don't mention what modules you have in the cards, but I bet you have FXS ports and have too light of a power supply for the job. 4. A TDM card that isn't recognized at all. DOA. 5. Impedience matching to eliminate humm? I'm calling Matt on Monday, and hopefully he'll RMA these cards. I hope that everyone that has a life is out enjoying the New Year. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
One rather common problem (which started the most recent thread on the subject) is the card simply fails to process pstn-fxo calls. Most seem to suggest it happens about once per week or two. When it fails, reloading the drivers clears the problem (which requires taking * down to do it). There are no log messages to hint at why. Another problem is documented in bug #2023 (and 2022), which describes voicemails left via a pstn-tdm call are consistently very low volume. What exactly are people seeing when they have issues with their TDM card? Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Rich Adamson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 3:09 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards I am going to be putting together my first * system using FXO/FXS interfaces. All the systems I have set up thus far have been pure VoIP setups. The system I need to set up should have 3 FXO interfaces and 1 FXS interface, as well as several SIP phones. I have noticed people complaining about Digium's TDM cards - are these isolated incidents or are these cards unreliable? I intend to get the TDM400P with the necessary FXO/FXS boards - can I expect the installation to be somewhat straightforward? Any tips to avoid grief? I think the best that anyone can estimate at this time is that a problem exits of some sort and it might be related to a combination of factors, one of which seems to involve specific motherboard designs. There are far too many people complaining about the same issues with the TDM card, several of which opened cases with digium support and got no response. It should be fairly obvious from the many postings on this list since that card was announced that something is not right, and at least some of those systems have digiums T1 cards on the exact same pci bus that are operating just fine. If you read through the archives, you'll see a number of people flapping their jaws using adjectives and adverbs about what they think the issue happens to be, but the majority (if not all) don't have a TDM card and apparently wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole. What is obvious at this point is: a. no one on the -user list is going to fix (or even hint with any degree of authority) the root-cause b. don't ever post anything to the -dev list regarding a TDM card as that is NOT the forum for digium cards or drivers, c. digium support is not addressing the issue, and, d. the amount of effort required to support the TDM card (stop *, restart the drivers, start *) in its present condition is far greater then what any reasonable non-technical customer will endure. Since this has been an on-going battle, I'd suggest avoiding the TDM card totally, or, take the 50-50 risk to see how high you can raise your frustration level. Would it make more sense to get 3 cheap X100P's and use some kind of ATA for the FXS? Will obviously save a whole bunch of money, but will there be significant added complexity? Three x100p's are likely to cause even more issues due to the high level of system interrupts. (Note: digium has removed them from their web site.) Current experience... three spa-3000's are far more stable then a TDM card, and you'll get three fxo's plus three fxs's for less money. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ---End of Original Message- ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2005-01-01 at 16:14 -0700, Michael Welter wrote: Since you asked, and since I'm well into this bottle of Merlot on New Year's day: 1. Power alarms. WTF does that mean? Wish I had some support docs. 2. On bootup, Excessive leakage module x, ProSLIC failed Auto Configuration. Again, WTF? Reboot and it's ok. But, just a reboot after driving 100+ miles to the client site is not a good option. 3. On bootup, a LED won't light. When zapata gets to it, it can't find the channel. Usually means a complete power cycle to get it to work. Those first 3 all sound like you have a problem with power supply and consistency. You don't mention what modules you have in the cards, but I bet you have FXS ports and have too light of a power supply for the job. Oddly, the maximum power requirements of the TDM400 (fully loaded with 4 FXS modules) is 20W. That'd have to be a pretty weak power supply (or heavily loaded chassis) to have problems drawing that power. Still, I agree that the power supply is a suspect. I'd want to know who makes the power supply, which model it is, and whether that model has a good reputation. An electrically noisy power supply could cause the kinds of anomalies described. So could a faulty supply, of course. More important to my mind is the overall quality of the power feeding the system. Is a dedicated electrical circuit employed? Isolated, insulated grounding conductor right back to a separately-derived source? Power conditioner? So many of the problems people are having with the TDM cards sound like power-quality issues, one has to wonder. I don't mean that as a panacea, because the TDM400 troubles seem to go beyond any one issue. It's merely one thing that might bear looking into. It'd be nice to see some statistics on not only what percentage of TDM400 users are having problems, but also what kind of environment they're in. I'd want to know about the elctrical environment, manufacturer and model of each system component (power supply and motherboard especially). I'd also like to get a report from a circuit analysis performed on the PSTN loop. I realize that much of this would be impossible to get, but one of the most important steps towards solving a bug is being able to identify the conditions which cause it. So far that data is not known, which is a large part of the reason the problem is not getting fixed - no one knows exactly what is causing the troubles - we just have symptoms. What if, for example, the TDM400 issues were a cumulative thing? If you had over 6dB of attenuation on the PSTN loop, coupled with greater than 5V potential on the neutral-ground of your elecrical receptacle, compounded by a cheap power supply, exascerbated by a Via-chipset, would you not be virtually guaranteed some strange behaviour? But if your PSTN was -3dB, your electrical feed derived from a power conditioner, your power supply manufactured by PC Power Cooling, and a ServerWorks chipset-based MoBo, would your system always be faultless? With enough data, we could really start to hone in on this animal. 4. A TDM card that isn't recognized at all. DOA. 5. Impedience matching to eliminate humm? I'm calling Matt on Monday, and hopefully he'll RMA these cards. I hope that everyone that has a life is out enjoying the New Year. http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.296 / Virus Database: 265.6.7 - Release Date: 30/12/2004 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Rich Adamson wrote: Current experience... three spa-3000's are far more stable then a TDM card, and you'll get three fxo's plus three fxs's for less money. Except for the little problem I've fought for about a week without any Joy - no combination of efforts from numerous sources (wiki, this forum members, my efforts) has succeeded in a spa-3000/asterisk combination that actually works. If you have specific spa-3000 and asterisk configs that actually work with both spa-3000 ports I'd sure like to have you share them. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Steven Critchfield wrote: Those first 3 all sound like you have a problem with power supply and consistency. You don't mention what modules you have in the cards, but I bet you have FXS ports and have too light of a power supply for the job. I'm not at the client sites, but my test system BIOS reports (with a TDM22B installed): VCORE 1.676V DDR Vtt 1.344 +3.3V 3.28V +5V 4.945 +12V12.544 5VSB4.945 The other card is also a TDM22B, and he DOA card is a TDM40B. I've rotated all cards throught my test system with varying degrees of flakines. Cheers, -- Michael Welter Introspect Telephony Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.674.2575 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.introspect.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Except for the little problem I've fought for about a week without any Joy - no combination of efforts from numerous sources (wiki, this forum members, my efforts) has succeeded in a spa-3000/asterisk combination that actually works. If you have specific spa-3000 and asterisk configs that actually work with both spa-3000 ports I'd sure like to have you share them. I have managed to get it work, though I don't use it now. You set up some random SIP account on your * server and feed that authentication information into the PSTN Line VoIP settings. You then enable the PSTN-to-VoIP gateway, set PSTN Caller ID Pattern to *, then set call-forwarding under PSTN User to: Cfwd Sel1 Caller: * Cfwd Sel1 Dest: 123 where 123 is an extension in the context that the SIP account on the * server is in. -- Nabeel Jafferali tel: 416.491.9136 (toronto) 646.225.7426 (new york) fwd: 46990 email/msn : nabeelatjafferali.net ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Nabeel Jafferali wrote: Except for the little problem I've fought for about a week without any Joy - no combination of efforts from numerous sources (wiki, this forum members, my efforts) has succeeded in a spa-3000/asterisk combination that actually works. If you have specific spa-3000 and asterisk configs that actually work with both spa-3000 ports I'd sure like to have you share them. I have managed to get it work, though I don't use it now. You set up some random SIP account on your * server and feed that authentication information into the PSTN Line VoIP settings. You then enable the PSTN-to-VoIP gateway, set PSTN Caller ID Pattern to *, then set call-forwarding under PSTN User to: Cfwd Sel1 Caller: * Cfwd Sel1 Dest: 123 where 123 is an extension in the context that the SIP account on the * server is in. I've been down that road - Asterisk reports an error (see the forum history for the exact error message as my server is currently offline awaiting a replacement TDM400 card). If you and other folks who have this working would manage to screen shot the exact sipura configuration - all pages (just so no little forgotten tweak gets by) and the sip.conf and extensions.conf sections I'll give this another go. Hmmm, silly me, error message was in outbound email queue - so here it is again: Dec 31 12:03:55 NOTICE[7145]: chan_sip.c:7486 handle_request: Failed to authenticate user WIRELESS CALLER sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED];tag=83eaec7dcb80f5feo1 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Dec 31 12:03:55 NOTICE[7145]: chan_sip.c:7486 handle_request: Failed to authenticate user WIRELESS CALLER sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED];tag=83eaec7dcb80f5feo1 Have you tried the A prefix trick, which uses Line 1 Call Forwarding as opposed to PSTN Line Call Forwarding (with the added advantage that the SPA-3000 does not pick up the SPA-3000 line until after the extension/* picks up)? -- Nabeel Jafferali tel: 416.491.9136 (toronto) 646.225.7426 (new york) fwd: 46990 email/msn : nabeelatjafferali.net ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
I have experienced nothing but grief when trying to set up the PSTN part of the SPA-3000. Everything from crackly audio to fast busies. BTW I take that back. I spent an hour on this after posting my last email, and with a little tweaking, everything seems to be working well now. -- Nabeel Jafferali tel: 416.491.9136 (toronto) 646.225.7426 (new york) fwd: 46990 email/msn : nabeelatjafferali.net ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Nabeel Jafferali wrote: Dec 31 12:03:55 NOTICE[7145]: chan_sip.c:7486 handle_request: Failed to authenticate user WIRELESS CALLER sip:[EMAIL PROTECTED];tag=83eaec7dcb80f5feo1 Have you tried the A prefix trick, which uses Line 1 Call Forwarding as opposed to PSTN Line Call Forwarding (with the added advantage that the SPA-3000 does not pick up the SPA-3000 line until after the extension/* picks up)? Yep - in fact the above error message used to have an A in front of the 714 - found out that basically anything in that field would cause the immediate forward... ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
Rich, I have been wondering if the spa 3000 would make a good PSTN interface for an * box where POTS is the only available (or practical) service. Have you implemented this? Are there any limitations or known issues? The SPA2000 sure seems to work well as an ATA, even had good luck with fax over IP using g.711 and the fax detection in zaptel and the SPA (turns off echo cancel dynamically when the CNG tone is heard I believe). Can you use the FXS and FXO ports at the same time, for two separate calls via * ? The SPA 3000 is small enough that a half dozen of them would be manageable, any more than that and your are usually in the T1 price range for service anyways. Thanks, Damon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Rich Adamson Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 2:09 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards snip Current experience... three spa-3000's are far more stable then a TDM card, and you'll get three fxo's plus three fxs's for less money. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
I hate to ask the obvious But what's your power quality like? Is the system on a UPS? UPS supplied power makes a huge difference in system stability. I wouldn't run a server for anything (including testing) without it. Second, what class of hardware? You do get what you pay for and flakiness can often be traced to power issues. From what I can tell the Digium hardware does some signal processing magic by relying heavily on system power and cpu power. The first clue here is the 12v plug to provide dial tone/ring to your ATAs. BTW, Ring on a analog phone is typically 90vAC. Dial tone is @48V. So if you put a bunch of analog devices in you are begging for headaches. I learned those numbers after being shocked. I don't strip phone wire with my teeth anymore. Shame on me for being lazy. I'm a firm believer in not running production systems on bargain hardware. I had nothing but grief out of my desktop class and generic trash systems. And yes, Shuttle is generic trash, as is ASUS, and A Open and a host of other Taiwan Special stuff. The way you save money in those systems is by making thinner PCB's which will drive you insane trying to troubleshoot. One tweak of your case and you can lose some contacts. At any rate, judge a circuit by it's thickness. Trash is like paper and flexes. Quality is thick and will cut you before it bends. I'm running older, but solid hardware and not seeing any issues. I'm using a Compaq Proliant 1850R Gen1 dual PII 400 with 512MB ram, GB ethernet, and SATA Hardware RAID. Cheap, efficient, redundant. And for a Debian box, good enough. Initial testing with TOP shows that one ATA to VOIP connection costs 4% of CPU to start up and then 2% to carry. Considering we have 10 handsets and 10 employees with 4 lines and normally no more then 2 people on the POTS lines I think we're in good shape. If you're planning to run a E*trade call center, you may want more substantial hardware. If you are planning the MomPop Voicematrix @Home you may be just fine with a old Proliant. They have redundant power supplies and they are cheap and indestructible. Although it's a bit loud to keep in the bedroom. :) Don't get me wrong, I'm not trashing your hardware. If you can run cheap bargain hardware and get it to work great. But my experience has been that I lost my A** on generic knockoff stuff when I sold PC's for a living. I spent a lot of time chasing errors that I never could find the cause of. Granted my webservers run Windows... And this is a linux app... But I see uptime in the range of months with Proliant hardware. That *is* remarkable for MSFT products. Anyhow that's my two cents. I wonder if there is a correlation between hardware class and issues with TDM boards? Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) -Original Message- From: Michael Welter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, January 01, 2005 5:15 PM To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What exactly are people seeing when they have issues with their TDM card? Brian Greul Texas Shirt Company www.txshirts.com 713-802-0369 / 713-861-6261 (fax) Since you asked, and since I'm well into this bottle of Merlot on New Year's day: 1. Power alarms. WTF does that mean? Wish I had some support docs. 2. On bootup, Excessive leakage module x, ProSLIC failed Auto Configuration. Again, WTF? Reboot and it's ok. But, just a reboot after driving 100+ miles to the client site is not a good option. 3. On bootup, a LED won't light. When zapata gets to it, it can't find the channel. Usually means a complete power cycle to get it to work. 4. A TDM card that isn't recognized at all. DOA. 5. Impedience matching to eliminate humm? I'm calling Matt on Monday, and hopefully he'll RMA these cards. I hope that everyone that has a life is out enjoying the New Year. Cheers, Mike -- Michael Welter Introspect Telephony Corp. Denver, Colorado US +1.303.674.2575 [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.introspect.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Sat, 1 Jan 2005 15:52:50 -0500, Nabeel Jafferali wrote: Hello. I am going to be putting together my first * system using FXO/FXS interfaces. All the systems I have set up thus far have been pure VoIP setups. The system I need to set up should have 3 FXO interfaces and 1 FXS interface, as well as several SIP phones. I have noticed people complaining about Digium's TDM cards - are these isolated incidents or are these cards unreliable? I intend to get the TDM400P with the necessary FXO/FXS boards - can I expect the installation to be somewhat straightforward? Any tips to avoid grief? Would it make more sense to get 3 cheap X100P's and use some kind of ATA for the FXS? Will obviously save a whole bunch of money, but will there be significant added complexity? Here's an option that some might consider, especially in light of the ongoing problems with virtually all small FXO interfacesthe Zultys 4x5 SIP phone. This SIP phone includes an onboard 4 port router wit QoS and an FXO interface. At point of introduction early in 2004 the FXO i/f was only used as a lifeline. The firmware setup allowed the suer to pass local calls to the FXO while passing all other calls to * via SIP. Alternatively, the phone could try SIP calling outboard before falling back to the FXO. However, about two weeks ago Zultys released firmware that makes the FXO available as a SIP reource to *. Calling coming in on the FXO can be routed to * for transfer or VM purposes. It's a little strange since we're accustomed to having the FXO/FXO i/fs on the server. However, you could bring the POTS lines to the desktops and into the 4x5 phones. Then have the call pass to * when required. BTW, the router functions such as DHCP etc can be defeated if desired. Also, the 4x5, unlike some phones, requires only one registration to support multiple call appearances. From on registration the 4x5 support 4 active SIP calls and one on the FXO, at the same time. Michael P.S. - I'm buying one of these from a friend who doesn't need his anymore. I had it on loan for a month back in the summer. It worked well with* but the FXO * firmware was not yet available. -- Michael Graves [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sr. Product Specialist www.pixelpower.com Pixel Power Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] o713-861-4005 o800-905-6412 c713-201-1262 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] Qs about FXO/FXS cards
On Sat, 2005-01-01 at 17:25 -0700, Michael Welter wrote: Steven Critchfield wrote: Those first 3 all sound like you have a problem with power supply and consistency. You don't mention what modules you have in the cards, but I bet you have FXS ports and have too light of a power supply for the job. I'm not at the client sites, but my test system BIOS reports (with a TDM22B installed): VCORE 1.676V DDR Vtt 1.344 +3.3V 3.28V +5V 4.945 +12V 12.544 5VSB 4.945 And from BIOS you for sure are not loading a driver and you aren't having to drive the ringing voltage. Part of my concern on power supplies is that I have abused them for non standard functions and know that many of them will pulse the 12v lines and probably the 5v lines as well if you draw too much power. So consider the option that your server is running smooth with no activity and the hard drive(s) spool down. Then a call comes in and asterisk goes to trying to write to the disk for logging as well as generate ring voltage. This could cause a low quality PSU to see a spike that it isn't capable of handling and it would pulse and there is your power alarm. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
