[Aus-soaring] ABCD etc.
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Cause-sought-in-glider-crash-that-killed-3-near-3643035.php___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Triple Fatality
US media has a lot on this today. http://www.kfvs12.com/story/18812283/3-die-in-houston-area-glider-crash-including-boy___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Good female gliding press.
http://www.warwickdailynews.com.au/story/2012/06/09/wilkinson-soars-into-flying-history/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Position available ....
Hear! hear! Mike. And why not? Don't other voluntary organisations such as Country Fire Services, SES's etc. have a core of competant paid civil servants? Wasn't there a Commonwealth paid person in the GFA office at some time in the past? - Original Message - From: Mike Borgelt To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Monday, May 21, 2012 11:24 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Position available At 10:45 PM 20/05/2012, you wrote: In case anyone is interested: http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_92940 look specifically under: 16th May 2012: Team Leader SASO and then also: http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/lib100155/1554.pdf and http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/pilots/download/sport.pdf Things have certainly changed changed over the years. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring Yeah there look to be enough CASA people employed in Sport Aviation to actually DO the administration rather than just supervise it. Mike -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won't be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
And if this comes to pass I hope CASA uses the word 'licence' on it's document rather than 'certificate' . They seem to alternate between the two words. You would want to be able to say you have a licence which is understandable and acceptable to most enquirers. Having to explain 'certificate' would be as bad as having to explain the current situation which is very tedious. Most seem to lie and say they have a licence as it is easier. - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won't be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Yes, Mark it is an 'Australianism'. I agree. Being asked is an agony it would be nice to remove truthfully with one word. The explanation is nearly as bad as for 'what happens if the wind stops'. :-( Anyway Oz has PPL CPL etc., so why not GPL for uniformity. - Original Message - From: Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Cc: GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 5:25 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 05:21:29PM +1000, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: And if this comes to pass I hope CASA uses the word 'licence' on it's document rather than 'certificate' . They seem to alternate between the two words. Fetishism about a license is a bit of an Australianism. The Americans call theirs a pilot certificate, and it's accepted everywhere. Doesn't matter what it's called, as long as it meets ICAO requirements. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Why? - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence No. -- From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness
Untitled DocumentThe regs self declaration form uses the words to the best of my knowledge. What about the blokes who are known never to go to the Doctor and what about the blokes who do, if they thought they would be stopped flying, would just lie. - Original Message - From: Tim Shirley To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] self declared fitness Sorry, that does not answer the question. Where is the evidence that pilots with a Class 2 medical are safer? Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 18/05/2012 18:16, Texler, Michael wrote: I wonder what statistical evidence there is for the added safety value of the Class 2 Medical. Let's also not forget that glider pilots are aging (like their aircraft), so statistically your chance of developing a medical health issue is increased just by virtue of being around longer. Diabetes, high blood pressure can be silently doing you damage. Many chronic medical problems can be better managed when they are diagnosed early, so aviation medicals aside, everyone should have a family GP and visit them once a year for a health check (even the young folk). Pee in a jar, get your blood pressure checked, have your blood glucose and lipids checked. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence
Again why? And if you are correct that is disappointing. - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:35 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Because your little green book means nothing! The GPC on the other hand :] Tom -- From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: tom claffey to...@yahoo.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Why? - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence No. From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; GGC Members ggc-memb...@gliding-in-melbourne.org Sent: Friday, 18 May 2012 4:04 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Citing from the CASA document entitled: Project FS 12/21 An applicant for a CASA glider pilot certificate must hold a current pilot certificate issued by the GFA or another recognised authority (Bolding and italics are mine) I have a little green book entitled: FEDERATION AERONAUTIQUE INTERNATIONALE AUSTRALIA (THE ROYAL FEDERATION OF AERO CLUBS OF AUSTRALIA) GLIDING CERTIFICATE I cannot help but wonder whether that is compliant with the requirement above? - Original Message - From: Dave Long Cath Lincoln To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. ; GGC Members Sent: Friday, May 18, 2012 11:06 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] CASA gliding licence Interesting. http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:PWA::pc=PC_100935 Seems it won’t be much use to anyone unless you also have a CASA pilot licence. Makes it expensive if all you want is a gliding licence. There will also be a number of people flying currently who would not pass a Class 2 medical. Dave Long -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Portable transponder
As with Dion's 'tongue in cheek' rope, do you wave your letter out the window to passers by? :-) - Original Message - From: Stuart Kerri FERGUSON s...@bigpond.net.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Wednesday, May 16, 2012 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Portable transponder Come to Bunyan, G Class to FL180; E Class to FL245 and higher by arrangement. The GFA holds general exemptions to the Regs for VFR above FL200 and gliders are currently exempt from carrying transponders in E Class airspace and we have assess to A Class airspace above FL245 through a Letter of Agreement with AsA. Our wave camp is planned for the week Sept 22nd to Sept 30th and it's cheaper and a lot more fun than a transponder. Stuart FERGUSON Phone - 0419 797508 On 16/05/2012, at 17:46, opsw...@bigpond.net.au wrote: Dave, a few years ago RACAL from the UK were building a portable transponder. Not sure if it was ever finished. got the free pen though. Peter Heath Dave Donald icans...@y7mail.com wrote: = Is there such a thing as a 'portable' transponder? The wave season has started at Boonah (strong climbs last weekend, the upper limit of which was limited by Controlled airspace) and a Transponder is required. It would be very useful if there was a 'portable transponder' that could be moved from aircraft to aircraft so that airspace can be entered. Dave ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Glide ratio
I wondered what the glide ratio of those flying suits was. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2144792/Redbull-skydivers-skies-high-Austria.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Nice article
Thank you Simon. I enjoyed that, especially the bit about Sullenberger, a view I have held for a while. Topically, I recently bought my wife a new Honda which incuded traction control which is meant to be left on all the time except in rain. Without her around, and as an old 60's sideways driver, I threw it around. Weird, to me, and dangerous for me. Switched off the traction control, then chucked it around. Beatiful with all it's modern suspension and brakes etc. FOR ME. Basic instincts vs technology? - Original Message - From: Simon Holding To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 6:26 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Nice article Here is what I thought was a nice article that paints proper aviators in an apt light.. http://www.spectator.co.uk/columnists/all/7806933/the-wiki-man-notsobasic-instinct.thtml Simon -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Pilot on Castor Oil
Same for any debilitating symptoms JR. - Original Message - From: JR To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 9:14 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pilot on Castor Oil But apparently drinking copious quantities of brandy helped in the relief of the symptoms. JR -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight record
It has been interesting watching that story develop over the last few days. No wonder they are keeping him on remand :-) - Original Message - From: Mike Borgelt To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Flight record This might be cause for some thought: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Criminal_Charge_Hang_Glider_Pilot_206617-1.html Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Pilot on Castor Oil
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/story/2012/05/02/bc-hang-glider-pilot-bail.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident
I have to agree with a lot of your comments Terry, but the law will not differentiate from or favour 'the volunteer sector' or any other. Nemo iudex in causa sua The rule is very strictly applied to any appearance of a possible bias, even if there is actually none: Justice must not only be done, but must be seen to be done. And, yes Gary, There is little else that needs saying or can be said on the issue, than that. - Original Message - From: Terry Neumann To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, April 27, 2012 6:27 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident I have had concerns with the GFA being involved in investigations, it being both a regulator/standard setter and a quasi fraternal association. Conflict of interest? Position to protect? That is why I asked. For myself I would hope that the tenor of any involvement by the GFA would be covered by the media euphemism .police are being assisted in their enquiries and no higher. The reason the ATSB investigates aviation accidents is that it was felt that CASA or its predecessor couldn't impartially investigate as their own procedures and rules may have been a factor.. For this reason GFA shouldn't be investigating or helping police with their enquiries. Now about that missing trace - *who* exactly tried retrieving it? See the problem? With the greatest of respect I do not share these concerns - at least in the volunteer sector. Your experiences may be different of course, and I respect that. Yes, one might suggest that there could be a conflict of interest in any club or GFA report or investigation of an accident, but either possibility rests very uncomfortably with my experience of gliding over nearly 46 years, and my perceptions regarding of the integrity of people who find their way to positions of experience and trust which could involve them dealing with the factual investigation and reporting of tragedies involving injury or death of their friends and fellow enthusiasts. Having been a GFA animal in an earlier lifetime, and in a role which intruded into this area, I saw nothing at any time which suggested that 'conflict of interest' was ever a consideration or factor in the analysis and discussion of those mishaps which sadly, we sometimes had to deal with. I have no reason to believe that it would be otherwise today. For mine, I would far sooner have people who know and understand gliding in particular and aviation in general investigating and reporting upon an accident, than have to wait for a police report which will almost certainly never be published, or a coroner's inquest some years later conducted by people for whom this may have been their first contact with the sport. Some of us already know from past experience the problems that this can cause. Finally I must say that I appreciate how difficult it is for Gary and others in his club in this situation. It is the most dreadful experience to suddenly be confronted with the reality that the sport we love so much and derive so much pleasure from can also dump us in the unthinkable tragedy we are now working through. Thank you Gary for what you have shared so far. I'm sure that everyone has enormous sympathy and empathy with you and your club members. A tragedy like this touches and moves us all. regards, Terry N -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] NZ CAA crash report recommendation.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1objectid=10801613 http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6811188/Massive-turbulence-may-have-hit-glider___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident
Hi Gary, You said: If you are particularly observant, you will note that neither Wombat nor I, have mentioned the GFA in this context. Legally they do not have a role. In practice they are generally requested to supply expert advice to the Investigating Authority. Apart from anything else, this keeps the GFA in the loop . I had hoped Wombat might have commented on an earlier e-mail of mine on this thread. I have had concerns with the GFA being involved in investigations, it being both a regulator/standard setter and a quasi fraternal association. Conflict of interest? Position to protect? That is why I asked. For myself I would hope that the tenor of any involvement by the GFA would be covered by the media euphemism .police are being assisted in their enquiries and no higher. Chris - Original Message - From: gstev...@bigpond.com To: wom...@netspeed.com.au ; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 11:22 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident Hi Mike, Mike Borgelt in particular, and All, Very nicely put. I note in particular your comment ...and the amount of knowledge gained from NZ investigations is not significantly higher than here. I suspect that you could widen NZ to Worldwide. At the risk of seeming outrageous, let me say that to the ATSB and its previous incarnations, investigating glider accidents is, within the bigger picture of accident investigation, just plain boring. How so? Let me explain. Unless I am missing something, there are basically only two factors to any gliding accident - mechanical failure, or pilot error( or incapacity). In an ultimate analysis, everything can be reduced to these two fundamentals. [There is no doubt that these fundamentals also apply to any accident scenario where human beings are involved.] Some pundit will no doubt be able to quote the exact figures for gliding, but in gliding accidents MUCH less than 10% of accidents can be attributed to mechanical failure. I will leave it to you to work out what the remainder is allotted to! ... However, do not jump to conclusions. In (unfortunately far too many cases), WHAT happened is quite easy to determine. WHY it happened cannot be determined at all! Nevertheless the fundamental premise that I have posited above must apply. Gliders, in comparison to say modern airliners are relatively simple machines - just ask the boys in South Africa who developed the JS1.They are reputed to have put in over 70,000 total hours to get to official Type Approval! So, in a few instances of gliding accidents there is a mechanical problem. As gliders are such simple machines, any mechanical failure should be relatively easy to determine. This does not require the input of the ATSB. As Wombat has said, the ATSB generally leaves it to either one of the other two entities who CAN legally investigate - the State Police, or the State Coroner. If you are particularly observant, you will note that neither Wombat nor I, have mentioned the GFA in this context. Legally they do not have a role. In practice they are generally requested to supply expert advice to the Investigating Authority. Apart from anything else, this keeps the GFA in the loop. [It is a digression, but it would seem in fact that these two bodies Police/Coroner co-operate. Maybe some legal eagle might be able to explain just what are the current arrangements, which may possibly vary from State to State. I posit that in theory each one of the 3 entities is able to carry out an independent investigation if it so chooses?] So much for mechanical failures. What about Pilot Error? Well pilots have been crashing, and in many cases dying, since man took to the air. Every possible means of crashing has been explored from that time until now. I suspect that all the possibilities for human error were exhausted long ago: Hence the lack of ATSB interest. As a result of these experiences the GFA produced a Manual of Standard Procedures. You are of course perfectly free to ignore the accumulated wisdom of ages, as set out in this document and taught by every accredited instructor, but you do so at your peril. Regards, Gary - Original Message - From: Mike Cleaver To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident John and others The ATSB has a system for classifying accidents and incidents - see on their web site http://www.atsb.gov.au/about_atsb/investigation-procedures.aspx and http://www.atsb.gov.au/about_atsb/investigation-procedures.aspx#fn2 - the latter identifies what the various levels of investigation involve in terms of ATSB resources. Sport and recreational aviation accidents - even fatal ones - are almost never accorded a classification
Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident
Thanks Mike. Same view as mine, and I was aware of that But you have to assist with enquiries if asked to attend at the station as opposed to proactivity. It must be so hard for local police to know how to deal with some of these rarer events. Re the trace, I read a novel recently where the plot was based on that very point. - Original Message - From: Mike Borgelt To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Thursday, April 26, 2012 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident At 04:34 PM 26/04/2012, you wrote: Hi Gary, You said: If you are particularly observant, you will note that neither Wombat nor I, have mentioned the GFA in this context. Legally they do not have a role. In practice they are generally requested to supply expert advice to the Investigating Authority. Apart from anything else, this keeps the GFA in the loop . I had hoped Wombat might have commented on an earlier e-mail of mine on this thread. I have had concerns with the GFA being involved in investigations, it being both a regulator/standard setter and a quasi fraternal association. Conflict of interest? Position to protect? That is why I asked. For myself I would hope that the tenor of any involvement by the GFA would be covered by the media euphemism .police are being assisted in their enquiries and no higher. Chris The reason the ATSB investigates aviation accidents is that it was felt that CASA or its predecessor couldn't impartially investigate as their own procedures and rules may have been a factor.. For this reason GFA shouldn't be investigating or helping police with their enquiries. Now about that missing trace - *who* exactly tried retrieving it? See the problem? Mike Borgelt Instruments - design manufacture of quality soaring instrumentation since 1978 www.borgeltinstruments.com tel: 07 4635 5784 overseas: int+61-7-4635 5784 mob: 042835 5784 : int+61-42835 5784 P O Box 4607, Toowoomba East, QLD 4350, Australia -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident
Hi Wombat, You said: The Police/Coroner will usually seek the assistance of the GFA in the case of a gliding accident, . Should there be any concern about this? I have some, so perhaps you could allay my concerns. Chris - Original Message - From: Mike Cleaver To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2012 4:40 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident John and others The ATSB has a system for classifying accidents and incidents - see on their web site http://www.atsb.gov.au/about_atsb/investigation-procedures.aspx and http://www.atsb.gov.au/about_atsb/investigation-procedures.aspx#fn2 - the latter identifies what the various levels of investigation involve in terms of ATSB resources. Sport and recreational aviation accidents - even fatal ones - are almost never accorded a classification higher than 4, which means that after the recording of various factual information, the investigation is either carried out with one or two ATSB investigators or may be referred to another agency. In the case of a fatality this is often the police force in the State or Territory where the accident occurred - either for potential crime investigation or more likely for the Coroner to investigate. The Police/Coroner will usually seek the assistance of the GFA in the case of a gliding accident, but the GFA generally regards itself as under-resourced to carry out aviation accident investigations, as no funding is provided from Government sources to train and equip investigators.In any event the funding provided by Government to the ATSB is such that most accidents are not investigated in any level of detail, unless they involve passenger transport operations in large or medium capacity aircraft. The days when ATSB investigated sport aviation accidents to any greater extent than this ended over 20 years ago, and are not likely to return. While gliding fatalities are investigated by TAIC in New Zealand, that is not the case here, and the amount of knowledge gained from NZ investigations is not significantly higher than here. A further factor that militates against the GFA conducting and publishing accident reports is the fact that, unlike Government agencies, the investigator may be held personally liable for the way findings are reported, and challenged by relatives of the deceased or others who have suffered personal or property loss, or by survivors of the event who may claim some degree of negligence (read financial compensation for some assumed fault by the GFA or its members) or defamation as a consequence of the reporting. This has the potential to affect all of us, whereas an ATSB investigation is rarely handled this way. Note that this is a fact in spite of the acknowledged purpose of accident investigations being to prevent recurrences and identify procedures or training that may assist in this goal: accident investigators do not lay blame for occurrences (and sometimes it is hard to read into their reports any reference to even obvious breaches of the law or safe operating procedures). This is why we have to wait so long for a Coroner to produce a report before we can make changes to the system, especially where training or procedure changes are involved, or airworthiness actions. Wombat On 25/04/2012 12:09 PM, john.mcfarlane wrote: I would have thought that this is a mandated reportable incident via the Fed Gov body delegated with that authority - ATSB. Will there be a formal report from the ATSB? From: gstev...@bigpond.com Sent: Monday, 23 April 2012 4:17 To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site/accident Re accident prevention, in this instance we will have to wait on the Coroner's report, which I would not expect any time soon. It may be able to pinpoint a problem, and if so we - that is the collective we - can then act. However I am not holding my breath on this one. Regards, Gary ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site
When it is often down I can usually find what I want just by doing a Google search. e.g. type MOSP 3 as I did this afternoon and voila! Last RTOA conference minutes just as easy to find. Members only ! ??? - Original Message - From: Leigh Youdale lmyoud...@me.com To: Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Sunday, April 22, 2012 8:22 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] GFA Site Doesn't work for me either. My theory is that the change of management has something to do with it. Regards, Leigh Youdale lmyoud...@me.com 0417210437 02 46580729 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Radio near collision.
http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2012/04/20/teenage-pilots-quick-response-avoids-collision/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] NZ Kookaburra - great pic
http://www.stuff.co.nz/taranaki-daily-news/news/6714283/Gliding-off-a-gut-wrenching-assignment___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Ararat - double fatality
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8444882 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-04-01/two-die-in-gliding-accident/3925952/?site=southwestvic___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Same the world over.
Even in 3rd world countries the situations and political/bureaucratic doublespeak are the same. http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news/rs-275-cr-for-heliport-gcp-given-the-miss/931140/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] More on the POOR things
http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2012/03/28/the-air-forces-magic-carpet-ride/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] More on the POOR things
And, I assume the photo is taken from inside their humble pie cart. - Original Message - From: Jeff Farrow To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:36 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] More on the POOR things http://www.usafa.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123295030 I presume the strip in the background - Original Message - From: Christopher Mc Donnell To: Gliding mail list Sent: Wednesday, March 28, 2012 11:38 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] More on the POOR things http://battleland.blogs.time.com/2012/03/28/the-air-forces-magic-carpet-ride/ ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ...
And it would be a worry if a stud died of a hard attack :-) BTW my daughters farrier disliked most horsey people. Good business though for him. - Original Message - From: rolf a. buelter To: aus soaring Sent: Monday, March 26, 2012 12:31 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ... Forgive my spelling, it was obviously a heart attack, and yes, it proved pigs can fly, albeit briefly only. Rolf Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2012 12:55:18 +1030 From: new...@atdot.dotat.org To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] overflying property ... On Mon, Mar 26, 2012 at 01:20:19PM +1100, rolf a. buelter wrote: A glider pilot and balloonist friend of mine back in Germany drove his hot air ballon not too high across a farm with their prized stud pig in the yard. When he lit the burner, the pig did a flick roll and died of a hard attack. It cost my friend dearly. Rgds - Rolf It must have been very convenient to have a burner handy for the resulting barbecue. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air
Hi Terry, I think the answers simpliciter are that you have no rights over the air above your property and you can land anywhere you want to if you have to. Once on the ground there are other issues that come into play that can depend on the situation. I think somebody explained a lot of these in a post here or in the magazine. As outlanding is so much a part of gliding perhaps an advisory article on the legalities on the National Regulators website would be helpful to its' members. - Original Message - From: Terry Neumann To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air Dear fellow gliding peoples, On 21/03/2012 4:24 PM, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: Having had an academic interest in easements and rights of way for many years I found the link below very interesting. OK - it morphed into an interesting discussion of alternative power options, (which I was enjoying actually). However may I raise an issue of glider pilot's rights in a parallel area. Some years ago I was confronted by a friend - a fellow farmer - who lives on the other side of the local village. He was somewhat irate and wanted to know what right a glider pilot had to land on someone's property without their permission (his in this instance - because it had happened), or to even to fly over their property without permission. There were reasons for the second question which I won't detail here. I was struggling for a solid convincing answer at the time.I actually wrote an article for AG (yes it's that long ago) about this whole outlanding business from a farmer's point of view, but after my previous journalistic efforts which had quite adverse results in one particular instance, I backed off. It was never submitted. Nor did I offer an answer in the article because there didn't appear to be one. I suggest that the concept of a persons rights has strengthened throughout society since that time. So I'll ask it now. Exactly what is our 'right' to fly over someone else's property without their permission, or perhaps more importantly, to land on their property - again without permission - when the wind stops blowing? regards, TN -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air
Thank you Stephen. I think there is something in Commonwealth Legislation going back years that covers aircraft in distress landings and their rights to alight. I am not going to spend time researching it. And did that legislation ever consider aircraft that go aloft with a higher risk of an unexpected landing place? I wish I could remember the location of that article that opinioned the ground legal situation. Hopefully we will all get some guidance, at least, on that. Regards Chris (In wet but warm Qld) - Original Message - From: stephenk To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 5:06 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air Terry, my understanding (and it may start an argument, and am happy to be corrected, in the subtleties or because I may be outright wrong) Flying over. That's a no brainer, irrespective of the type of ownership (crown lease, freehold etc) the property owner doesn't own the air above their property, except I think as high up as they build (and don't own everything under their feet either, I think). So all sorts of aircraft (gliders included) can fly there. Provided they comply with the air navigation laws which are in part notionally to protect the people below. Landing out. Well, I think we actually have no right to do this. On the face of it (IANAL) it is straight out trespass. However, it is a grey/complex area as I believe there can be extenuating circumstances to trespass. An example might be a person trying to escape from a threat, seeking safety. Maybe a plane forced to land due to engine failure is like that. Are gliders forced to land? Did we have to pick that particular paddock? How long do we intend to stay? That's where it all gets rather sticky. Until there is an actual court case bought against an outlanding glider, we won't know for sure, and maybe not even then. All I know is that I haven't flown a glider cross country for a long time. Two of the last outlandings I went to (one as pilot and one as part of the crew) started off with quite bad feeling on the part of the landowners. One because the owner claimed the glider had contaminated a genetically specialised crop and one because just prior to me outlanding in his field the farmer had been forced to accept an easement for an underground telco cable through his property and was generally unhappy with anyone now being there. Both situations were not fun and enough to make me wary of these situations for the future. Regards SWK On 24/03/2012 8:52 AM, Terry Neumann wrote: Dear fellow gliding peoples, On 21/03/2012 4:24 PM, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: Having had an academic interest in easements and rights of way for many years I found the link below very interesting. OK - it morphed into an interesting discussion of alternative power options, (which I was enjoying actually). However may I raise an issue of glider pilot's rights in a parallel area. Some years ago I was confronted by a friend - a fellow farmer - who lives on the other side of the local village. He was somewhat irate and wanted to know what right a glider pilot had to land on someone's property without their permission (his in this instance - because it had happened), or to even to fly over their property without permission. There were reasons for the second question which I won't detail here. I was struggling for a solid convincing answer at the time.I actually wrote an article for AG (yes it's that long ago) about this whole outlanding business from a farmer's point of view, but after my previous journalistic efforts which had quite adverse results in one particular instance, I backed off. It was never submitted. Nor did I offer an answer in the article because there didn't appear to be one. I suggest that the concept of a persons rights has strengthened throughout society since that time. So I'll ask it now. Exactly what is our 'right' to fly over someone else's property without their permission, or perhaps more importantly, to land on their property - again without permission - when the wind stops blowing? regards, TN ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http
Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air
Thanks Bernie That's the article I remember. Printed and ready for the glovebox. A little more prominence perhaps. - Original Message - From: Bernie Baer To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air Here you go: http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/ops/Outlanding%20Legal%20Advice.pdf -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air
Untitled DocumentOr documents in the glove box. Just to be with the trailer exemption as required. Too easy and one day could be handy. Be charming and disarming is definitly is the best and proven way to go. - Original Message - From: Tim Shirley To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air I'm not sure what Terry's neighbour was growing... or perhaps he is the president of the local nudist club... Perhaps some perspective is needed. Outlandings are a normal part of our sport and almost all go well. Expecting the worst is not a good way to build confidence. In 35 years of X/C gliding I have had my share or outlandings, and I've done a lot of retrieves. I've heard stories about farmers from hell, and I'm sure they exist, but I've never actually met one. The usual reactions I get are curiosity, concern, and the best of cooperation and assistance. I've had beer, food, lifts, wing runners, help with derigging, hospitality - and I've met some terrific people. Even the mythical farmers daughter on one occasion (but perhaps I was dreaming). I've never damaged anything. Not me, not my glider, no property, no animals. Yes, maybe next time it will happen. I should not speak too soon. A smile and a friendly explanation goes a long way, I find. And so, I expect, would an up front apology and offer to pay for damage, if it was necessary. I can't imagine the need for police, or lawyers. Or documents in the glove box. Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 24/03/2012 21:32, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: Thanks Bernie That's the article I remember. Printed and ready for the glovebox. A little more prominence perhaps. - Original Message - From: Bernie Baer To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 5:46 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air Here you go: http://2009.gfa.org.au/Docs/ops/Outlanding%20Legal%20Advice.pdf -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air
Mea culpa Bruce. I dropped the pebble in the pond. :-) - Original Message - From: Bruce Campbell To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, March 23, 2012 7:49 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Easements in the air This is way off topic - can you guys continue your exchange in private. The rest of us (well I'm sure I'm not alone) aren't interested. Thanks -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] POOR things
http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/b83f40e71b9e42e2956e390fe096bf53/CO--Artificial-Turf-Landing-Strip/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Media (sigh!)
Did the reporter understand as most readers wouldn't. http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/yourtown/bicester/9601179.Warning_for_gliders/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Birdwings
Was media (sigh!) Ninemsn taken in too? http://news.ninemsn.com.au/technology/8438807/man-flies-with-homemade-flapping-machine - Original Message - From: Mark Newton new...@atdot.dotat.org To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 8:22 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Birdwings On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 03:24:16PM +1030, Stuart Cassidy wrote: Apparently some dutch guy has built himself a set of ings, powered by flapping his arms The wings also have the amazing ability to eradicate their own shadows from the ground at the moment of takeoff. They come with fitted with free motion capture markers too, which must be handy if you ever got tired of flying them and just wanted to use them as some kind of special effects prop. - mark ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Easements in the air
Having had an academic interest in easements and rights of way for many years I found the link below very interesting. I am sure ridge soaring sites around the world will be watching with interest as they are located on prime sites of the cause of action. http://www.bakersfield.com/news/business/economy/x2085764577/Lawsuit-pits-gliders-vs-turbines-in-effort-to-stop-mountain-wind-farm ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] DG Licenses for old LS and DG Gliders
Untitled DocumentIt is a bit like lifelong roadside assist but not built into the cost of the vehicle. - Original Message - From: Tim Shirley To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2012 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] DG Licenses for old LS and DG Gliders It must cost quite a bit to maintain all the paperwork and engineering expertise for the older gliders and if they are going to stay in business someone has to pay the bills. I guess some factories might just load up the price of new gliders, or their repair prices, or their price for parts, in DG's case they are asking the owners of the older gliders to pay a subscription. Whatever way it is done, it can never be a charity. I'm not defending their particular business model, only observing that there's no such thing as a free launch. Cheers Tim tra dire e fare c'è mezzo il mare On 20/03/2012 10:20, Ross McLean wrote: Up to that point I had always had a high regard for DG. Once they pulled that little trick I was much less impressed with them. The LS8 is such a great glider though I am now at their mercy. ROSS From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of John Trezise Sent: Tuesday, 20 March 2012 8:14 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] DG Licenses for old LS and DG Gliders Hi Ross ... so you were hit for 2 years. The annual fee if you go through Tom is Eu190 per year around ... around AUD 260 including GST. Direct to the factory (which allows you to deal directly with DG) is Eu250 ... around AUD312. John ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Colditz Launch
The concrete full bathtub method does work. http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2012-03-17/colditz-castle-glider-escape-plot-realised-more-than-65-years-after-the-war___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Colditz - more pics
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2116492/Flight-Colditz-British-PoWs-daring-glider-escape-takes-sky-67-years-late.html?ito=feeds-newsxml___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Kookaburra VH-GLG
Hi Kevin, Caleb White knows the most history about Kookaburras and has located/identified most. I have located/identified most Kingfishers except a couple where the GFA records are remiss. Chris McDonnell - Original Message - From: Kevin Rodda To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 4:27 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Kookaburra VH-GLG I have had an enquiry through the Gliding Queensland website re Kingaroy Soaring Club's original short-wing M2 Kookaburra (was VH-GLG). It was purchased in 1958 by the North Coast Gliding Soaring Club (which later became KSC) and was sold in early 70’s. The rego GLG is now on a powered aircraft which suggests that that this Kooka has somewhere along the line become unairworththy or has charged its rego. Would be grateful to hear from anyone who may have some as to where it went after KSC and where it is now. Thanks, Kevin Rodda -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Kookaburra VH-GLG
Hi Ian, Has EP's unknown Kookaburra ever been identified. Not last time I asked. Chris - Original Message - From: Ruth Patching To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kookaburra VH-GLG Hi JR, No the Darwin Kooka is GPE I think. It is a Mk 4, originally GCV, rebuilt by Ray Ash then owned by Ray Budd and partners. As you remember the thing looks pretty bad. Catch ya soon Patch - Original Message - From: JR jma99...@bigpond.net.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, 16 March, 2012 8:36:40 PM (GMT+1000) Auto-Detected Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Kookaburra VH-GLG I think GLG is the darwin kooka, but might be wrong, if it is , it is a very big task to get it back in the air. regards JR ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Fw: Aus soaring-Car Navs
- Original Message - From: trevor.bu...@bigpond.com To: Christopher Mc Donnell Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 8:09 AM Subject: Aus soaring Hi Chris, could you put the question below to Aus Soaring for me? Apparently there some Car Navs that you can input lat and long co-ordinates which makes retrieves easier to find. Can any one recommend a car nav make and model that will do that? It would be also be good if it could be used with XC Soar. Trevor Burke ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] I'm fed up with gliders
http://www.thisisnorthdevon.co.uk/m-fed-gliders/story-15364001-detail/story.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Gliding - Wenlock Olympian Games
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-17194773___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Aged/Ageing Hangies
Regardless of comments. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/6481863/Injured-hang-glider-pilot-recovering___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ouch
I can't but agree, but don't you mean that 60 is the new 40 ;) - Original Message - From: Stuart Kerri FERGUSON To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 8:25 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Ouch ..and 60 is the old 40; he is just a lad ;) On 24/02/2012, at 19:42, Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com wrote: There was a time when it was hoped that the hang gliders would move to conventional gliding with age, better income etc etc. I have noticed the well into middle age of some of them in the press lately. This one was 59. - Original Message - From: Nelson Handcock To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Friday, February 24, 2012 11:51 AM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Ouch http://www.geelongadvertiser.com.au/article/2012/02/24/309331_news.html -- Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders - transponders - USA - new recommendation
Wombat said: They say 9 people have died in 20 years. I wonder how many have died by riding horses or bicycles without a helmet? Horses are far more dangerous! And how many people a year would die if there were not an alternative air route over the Hume Pacific Highways? More than a few RPT loads I would Guess. Acceptable risk in the community sense? But not me of course :-) Aviation dances to a different drum. Chris - Original Message - From: wom...@mail.netspeed.com.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2012 6:20 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders - transponders - USA - new recommendation Lighter-than-air vehicles means balloons and airships in FAA parlance. This slip shows how well tghe Washington Examiner's sub-editors understand aviation. The comment about being effectively invisible to ATC applies to any aircraft that does not operate a transponder, whether glider, balloon, hang glider/paraglider or aeroplane (of any weight from 50 kg to 500 tons. They say 9 people have died in 20 years. I wonder how many have died by riding horses or bicycles without a helmet? Horses are far more dangerous! Wombat - Original Message - From: Scott Penrose sco...@dd.com.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliders - transponders - USA - new recommendation Date: Thu, 23 Feb 2012 10:13:00 +1100 On 23/02/2012, at 9:25 AM, Christopher Mc Donnell wrote: http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/2012/02/faa-takes-baby-step-improve-glider-safety/301391 I assume when they say lighter-than-air vehicles they don't mean balloons. I think they mean gliders, which are heavier than air :-) Does anyone know how they are getting past the power requirements problem? Scott ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Gliders - transponders - USA - new recommendation
http://washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/editorials/2012/02/faa-takes-baby-step-improve-glider-safety/301391___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes
It will be interesting to get the official report. There is a live uninjured pilot, so why not just ask as it has raised such curiosity in the antipodes. :-) soar...@kent-gliding-club.co.uk - Original Message - From: gstev...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:36 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes Hi Anthony, Plausible that he was over unlandable terrain without landing options . However your postulate raises the question as to how/why this could come about. Your last supposition is somewhat debatable, given that the image shows the glider in mature growth trees. in this situation my understanding of the general advice is to land the glider on the top of the tree canopy as slowly as possible under the prevailing circumstances.Perhaps someone who has actually done it, might like to make comment? Mike's suppositions are just as plausible. It will be interesting to get the official report. Cheers, Gary - Original Message - From: Anthony Smith To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:37 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes Presumably he was over unlandable terrain and out of options. With a real risk of injury if he stayed in the cockpit, it was probably best to bail out. From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of MIKE BORGELT Sent: Monday, 20 February 2012 8:21 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes Makes you wonder why he bailed out. Control system problem? Spin recovery? Mike At 09:46 PM 19/02/2012, you wrote: Airframe looks almost undamaged and intact. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-17088948 ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] UK glider pilot parachutes
Airframe looks almost undamaged and intact. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-17088948___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Anyone got an old Colibri for sale?
Gas or fluid, electric or flint? :-) - Original Message - From: Dave Donald To: aus-soaring Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 9:00 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Anyone got an old Colibri for sale? Has anyone got an old Colibri (Yellow or black) for sale? Dave -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Media crashes
An interesting read. The application would probably apply in Australia too if the rules/guidlines are similar. http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9532229.PCC_upholds_complaint_on_glider_crash_photograph/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Barossa Commercial Op.
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/business/sa-business-journal/gliding-into-an-ideal-market-niche/story-e6fredel-1226269053560___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Pictures attached Re: Colditz Cock
I believe a great concern of Bader's was that he had been shot down ( and he was shot down, not collided with as he always claimed) by a non commissioned pilot, which he was. Galland perceiving this discomfort introduced an officer to him as the one who had shot him down. - Original Message - From: MIKE BORGELT To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Friday, February 10, 2012 6:08 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Pictures attached Re: Colditz Cock At 05:47 PM 10/02/2012, you wrote: The plans that are hanging in Colditz itself (and I don't know how authentic they are) show a pilot and a passenger. https://picasaweb.google.com/swkswk62/Best200Europe2005#5116628757677997378 . Although Bader was at Colditz, I think he was too immobile for the escape attempt. I read a book recently by a Hurricane pilot. Apparently Bader wasn't exactly Mr Popularity and when he was shot down over France the rest of the squadron wasn't exactly broken hearted. There was some thought that one of them done it even. Maybe they were going to fly him out in the glider to get rid of him. FWIW Mike -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Colditz Cock
It seems a second replica is being built. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2098594/Great-escape-plot-Colditz-PoWs-finally-realised-glider-gramophone-springs-takes-sky.html?ito=feeds-newsxml___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Media Promotion
Another promo type article in the NZ press. I see many of them. http://www.rotoruadailypost.co.nz/news/natural-form-of-flying/1263401/ I am amazed at the amount of press promotion of gliding I see in the NZ press. They must really work at it. Any idea how many glider pilots there are in NZ as a comparison?___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Media Promotion
700 I have been told. - Original Message - From: JR To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Tuesday, February 07, 2012 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Media Promotion There is at least 2 that I know of. -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auctionI wonder if my 1961 first edition autographed presentation copy to Sir kenneth Wills of Where No Birds Fly would be worth anything? - Original Message - From: Patrick Barfield To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction Hi all, Congratulations for John Roake for the spectacular opening and winning bid for the book which will be on its way as soon as you send me your mailing address John. I'm sure that Lymphoma Australia will be very happy with the generous donation. Thanks John. Best regards, Patrick Barfield -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of John Roake Sent: Friday, 27 January 2012 10:22 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction On 27/01/12 11:50 AM, Patrick Barfield barfi...@tpg.com.au wrote: Our reply hereunder: Opening bid $50.00 John Roake, Editor, Gliding International. Folks, I have a pre-loved copy of Philip Wills' Free as a bird published in 1973 in very good condition that needs a new home with the proceeds going to charity. I'll sell it via a Gliding-Bay (gBay) auction and here are the rules: 1. Auction starts today and ends at 6pm AEST on Monday 6th February 2012. 2. Opening bid is $1 and subsequent bids need to be in whole dollars. 3. Place your bid by replying to this email. Uninterested list-members can automatically delete emails with this subject. 4. The person with the highest bid at the close of auction will donate their pledged amount to Lymphoma Australia via this link https://secure3.everydayhero.com.au/event/directdonationlymphoma/donate/1075 5. Email me your donation receipt with your mailing address and I'll pay the postage and send you the book. Happy bidding. Best regards, Patrick Barfield -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction
Sir Kenneth was one of his family in Australia who rose to high office and was one of our top spooks during the war. It was a Christmas present from Philip to Sir Kenneth. T'was tongue in cheek Patch. - Original Message - From: Ruth Patching To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction Chris, Try Phillip, and I don't think he was knighted. If you have a signed one by Sir Kenneth, then my copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People signed by myself and JR and soon to be signed by Mike and Emilis along with a string of others would be worth a couple of mints at least. Apologies, Patch - Original Message - From: Christopher Mc Donnell wommamuku...@bigpond.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, 6 February, 2012 8:51:22 PM GMT +10:00 Canberra / Melbourne / Sydney Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction I wonder if my 1961 first edition autographed presentation copy to Sir kenneth Wills of Where No Birds Fly would be worth anything? - Original Message - From: Patrick Barfield To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Monday, February 06, 2012 5:14 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction Hi all, Congratulations for John Roake for the spectacular opening and winning bid for the book which will be on its way as soon as you send me your mailing address John. I’m sure that Lymphoma Australia will be very happy with the generous donation. Thanks John. Best regards, Patrick Barfield -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of John Roake Sent: Friday, 27 January 2012 10:22 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Gliding Book for auction On 27/01/12 11:50 AM, Patrick Barfield barfi...@tpg.com.au wrote: Our reply hereunder: Opening bid $50.00 John Roake, Editor, Gliding International. Folks, I have a pre-loved copy of Philip Wills’ “Free as a bird” published in 1973 in very good condition that needs a new home with the proceeds going to charity. I’ll sell it via a Gliding-Bay (gBay) auction and here are the rules: 1. Auction starts today and ends at 6pm AEST on Monday 6th February 2012. 2. Opening bid is $1 and subsequent bids need to be in whole dollars. 3. Place your bid by replying to this email. Uninterested list-members can automatically delete emails with this subject. 4. The person with the highest bid at the close of auction will donate their pledged amount to Lymphoma Australia via this link https://secure3.everydayhero.com.au/event/directdonationlymphoma/donate/1075 5. Email me your donation receipt with your mailing address and I’ll pay the postage and send you the book. Happy bidding. Best regards, Patrick Barfield ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Decisions decisions
Golf Course or Ski Slope? http://www.tahoedailytribune.com/article/20120206/NEWS/120209902/1056parentprofile=1056___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] SCGC good media
http://www.cootamundraherald.com.au/news/local/news/general/culmination-of-a-dream/2423574.aspx___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Benalla incident
http://www.bordermail.com.au/news/local/news/general/sinking-air-brings-down-glider/2420351.aspx___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ramp Check on Tug at Beverley
RAMP. Another US english expression amongst others sneaking into our language. Ugh! Those areas have always looked pretty flat to me. It seems to have started off meaning the boarding stairs or ramp (e.g. ramp ceremony) and then took over the whole tarmac/departure area. Chris ;-) - Original Message - From: Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Ramp Check on Tug at Beverley Did the CASA official provide proof of his own identity? I think that you would be within your rights to at least record the name of the officer doing the ramp check and what transpired in case anything went pear shaped. In today's age, how would you know you're not dealing with someone who was bogus. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Ramp Check on Tug at Beverley
Mike, I would have to disagree with your preference for ramp. Given the general architecture of airport terminals and the many definitions and etymology given in a decent dictionary for the word apron, apron would seem to me to be the most appropriate/available of the words that can be used for the area where airplanes park waiting for passengers to get on and off them. :-) But that's not gunna fly now is it. Boring to most, so going into lockdown (double Ugh!) Chris - Original Message - From: MIKE BORGELT mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 10:50 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Ramp Check on Tug at Beverley We could use the British apron or tarmac both of which are also inappropriate in describing that area. CASA probably uses ramp because that's what the FAA calls it. Technically a ramp check in the USA is probably unconstitutional as for the authorities to stop and check you while going about your business in public they need probable cause. Then again the US government long ago stopped paying attention to that magnificent document. Wilbur and Orville invented the airplane so that's what it should be called IMO. I'll go along with ramp too. Mike At 10:10 AM 16/01/2012, you wrote: RAMP. Another US english expression amongst others sneaking into our language. Ugh! Those areas have always looked pretty flat to me. It seems to have started off meaning the boarding stairs or ramp (e.g. ramp ceremony) and then took over the whole tarmac/departure area. Chris ;-) - Original Message - From: Texler, Michael michael.tex...@health.wa.gov.au To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Monday, January 16, 2012 9:47 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Ramp Check on Tug at Beverley Did the CASA official provide proof of his own identity? I think that you would be within your rights to at least record the name of the officer doing the ramp check and what transpired in case anything went pear shaped. In today's age, how would you know you're not dealing with someone who was bogus. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Training incident at Benalla today
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8403330___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Benalla incident
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/woman-80-in-glider-accident/story-fn7x8me2-1226234381128___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Old Pilots
http://www.bordermail.com.au/news/local/news/general/jumbo-jet-pales-next-to-the-joy-of-gliding/2407229.aspx ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fore - glider coming (includes onboard video)
Fournier F4 for those interested and he really did yell 'fore' :-) - Original Message - From: Texler, Michael To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2011 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fore - glider coming (includes onboard video) This link below includes onboard video of the event: http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/wa/12263348/pilot-lands-plane-on-golf-course/ -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Fore - glider coming.
http://www.smh.com.au/wa-news/plane-crash-lands-at-golf-course-near-perth-20111207-1oioj.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Gliding Marketing
I bet our Juniors would like this sort of support and wouldn't our national regulator like to be able to also wheel out a football code icon. http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/6087831/Rugby-legend-speaks-of-flying-passion___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Foka rigging
It now appears there have been 3 deaths because of. http://www.longridgenews.co.uk/news/local/glider_fatality_could_have_been_avoided_1_4016444___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Foka 4 inquest findings
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-15878870 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2065750/Woman-pilot-plummeted-death-boyfriend-loose-bolt-caused-glider-wings-fall-1-000ft.html?ito=feeds-newsxml___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Good stuff
Where ? - Original Message - From: Nelson Handcock To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Wednesday, November 23, 2011 3:31 PM Subject: [Aus-soaring] Good stuff http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLu9s-SbJOo -- Nelson Handcock 0409 149919 http://www.linkedin.com/in/nelsonhandcockaustralia -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Queensland Times
http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/11/24/maddocks-on-natural-high-in-world-carnival/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Press re Juniors
http://www.qt.com.au/story/2011/11/18/tradition-on-high-at-world-festival/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Calender of Gliding Events
Yes, but will it be managed? Surely this should have been addressed by the national body years ago, as in the CAMS example you gave and many other sports. - Original Message - From: Stuart Kerri FERGUSON To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Friday, November 11, 2011 8:10 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Calender of Gliding Events Mike - we already have there here in Canberra ;) I would prefer to see it managed by those who have a vested interest in maximising the outcome for the majority - sure it will not satisfy everyone you never can but hopefully it would be better than it is now. == Chris - I will do it; all bribes gratefully accepted J From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Mike Borgelt Sent: Friday, 11 November 2011 8:53 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Calender of Gliding Events At 07:31 PM 11/11/2011, you wrote:  an annual calendar of events published on the GFA web site --- and coordinated by? --- Wolkenkuckucksheim ! - Original Message - Yeah, it is called anarcho-tyranny Regulate the minutae of people's behaviour while missing the big picture. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Piggott man powered flight.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/nov/09/50-years-human-powered-flight___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] DDSC new glider
http://www.thechronicle.com.au/story/2011/11/07/club-rapt-new-glider/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] New Qld Gliding Club float
http://www.frasercoastchronicle.com.au/story/2011/11/08/club-preparing-for-takeoff/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] NZ legislation going ahead.
http://www.odt.co.nz/news/queenstown-lakes/185616/seminar-aviation-law___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] NZ - bit more info
http://www.scene.co.nz/new-caa-rules-for-air-thrills-firms/293895a1.page___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Airspace glider issue UK
http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/279943/Holiday-jet-and-glider-close-to-a-collision-over-Glasgow___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Promotion-Simulator at Gympie Centro
http://www.gympietimes.com.au/story/2011/09/22/detroits-sky-high-ambitions/ Kids names these days! With a name like that he will grow up strait ;-)___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Glider visibility-UK-BGA
http://www.atc-network.com/News/39650/CAA-funds-visibility-trial___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Interesting read
Must be a bonus to the visibility of gliding in NZ http://www.espnscrum.com/2011-rugby-world-cup/rugby/story/149482.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] (no subject)
Maybe the Ad. is targeted. Mike Borgelt said only the other day: Geez with the age of most glider pilots you'd go broke giving Seniors discounts. :-) - Original Message - From: Kevin McGowan To: aussoaring 'aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net' Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 9:13 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] (no subject) Is it only me who gets these ads? I don't need or want them. -- Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 09:02:17 -0700 From: icans...@y7mail.com To: peter.trott...@bigpond.com; rhender...@iinet.net.au; robc...@adam.com.au; alan...@iinet.net.au; ldonal...@hotmail.com; gav...@au1.ibm.com; hk...@harboursat.com.au; aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; d...@carfleet.com.au; bar...@athertonairport.com.au Subject: [Aus-soaring] (no subject) http://AURAGURGAON.COM/pharmacy01.php ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney
I recall Wally Wallington showing us the outlanding maps from that comp. The Aussies were always way out on their own because they weren't used to visual navigation over the crowded English landscape. Is that a polite way of saying lost? - Original Message - From: Mike Timbrell mike.timbr...@techpack.net.au To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net; jar...@optusnet.com.au Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Peter Hanneman can't recall offhand where they bought the Foka but thinks it was an offshore purchase probably arranged by Werner Geisler. Johnny Blackwell might recall. Our 70 didn't have a stroke through the 7 and it was an Australian issued number but Peter thinks it could easily have been issued on the basis of the provenance of the aircraft. He wasn't flying in the aerobatic display but he was at South Cerney as the captain of the Irish team into which he and his friend Cohen were recruited as guest Irishmen. I recall Wally Wallington showing us the outlanding maps from that comp. The Aussies were always way out on their own because they weren't used to visual navigation over the crowded English landscape. Mike -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Paul Mander Sent: Monday, 5 September 2011 12:28 AM To: jar...@optusnet.com.au; 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Cc: 'Mike Timbrell' Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Small world, Jarek. Having finally got to look at the footage, I see Foka IV, competition number 70. That was in 1965. In 1969 Mike Timbrell, a couple of other Sydney Tech Gliding Club members and I bought a Foka IV from the Bathurst Soaring Group, a syndicate of eight that included Merv Waghorn. They had owned the glider for a few years, so it must have been imported soon after 1965. It had competition number 70 on the fin, in exactly the same style as in the film. I think there is a strong chance that this is the same glider. I did my Silver and Gold flights in it, and thereby established some great friendships with members of the old Concordia Gliding Club during their camps at Forbes. We had that very rigging tool, never had a problem but one had to be careful with alignment. Sadly, the glider was written off in a take off accident; the Foka IV had huge spoilers, far too much drag for a mere Auster to overcome. It was an interesting glider, all wood, having no spar. It depended on its thick plywood skins for the wings' strength. We encountered glue problems which thereafter always lurked, in my mind at least. Might have been a good thing that it went. Apart from that, I've always thought it to be the best wooden glider ever made. Another connection; I was taken for my first glider flight in 1968 by Peter Hanneman, ex RAF Red Arrows and recent New Australian. What chance that he was flying one of the (?) Hawker Hunters in the Opening Day aerobatic display? Peter may even have had a hand in the glider's purchase and he lives in Bathurst. Mike Timbrell is in a position to check, and I'm sure he'll let us know. Thanks for the memories. Paul Mander -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jarek Mosiejewski Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:44 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Something about Fokas but on much happier note. Recently discovered in the archives, Polish propaganda movie about the 1965 World Comps in South Cerney from the Polish team perspective: http://www.flyingtv.pl/film,lotnictwo62,filmy-0,ile-10,samolot-415.html If you can bear the comments in Polish, a very slow server and lengthy socialist propaganda scenes, there are some interesting moments showing the world comps in the 60b, including a Foka being rigged with the proper T-wrench. Regards Jarek ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney
Good pic for me to add to my collection of the two ES-60's. - Original Message - From: Kenneth Caldwell To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 3:43 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Attached is a photo of the Foka, competition number 70, taken at the Seventh Australian National Gliding Championships held at Narromine (27th December 1966 - 9th January 1967). The Waikerie Boomerang is in the background. The Foka pilots were Jan Coolhaas and John Blackwell. Graham's photo is probably of Trevor Kyle's Foka 3 which he flew with Jan Coolhaas in the Sixth Nationals at Waikerie. Ken On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Mike Timbrell mike.timbr...@techpack.net.au wrote: No Graham, our Foka 4A had the reverse colouring. Mostly white with a burnt orange flash down the fuse. GUW. It was a beautiful thing to fly. I have now located the original identification plate. Build year 1967. Too bad, it would have been a good story. Mike -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Graham Watts Sent: Monday, 5 September 2011 11:30 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Is this the one? I took this photo in 1965 or 1966 at Camden. George Detto in the cockpit if I remember. Graham On 4/09/2011 10:27 PM, Paul Mander wrote: Small world, Jarek. Having finally got to look at the footage, I see Foka IV, competition number 70. That was in 1965. In 1969 Mike Timbrell, a couple of other Sydney Tech Gliding Club members and I bought a Foka IV from the Bathurst Soaring Group, a syndicate of eight that included Merv Waghorn. They had owned the glider for a few years, so it must have been imported soon after 1965. It had competition number 70 on the fin, in exactly the same style as in the film. I think there is a strong chance that this is the same glider. I did my Silver and Gold flights in it, and thereby established some great friendships with members of the old Concordia Gliding Club during their camps at Forbes. We had that very rigging tool, never had a problem but one had to be careful with alignment. Sadly, the glider was written off in a take off accident; the Foka IV had huge spoilers, far too much drag for a mere Auster to overcome. It was an interesting glider, all wood, having no spar. It depended on its thick plywood skins for the wings' strength. We encountered glue problems which thereafter always lurked, in my mind at least. Might have been a good thing that it went. Apart from that, I've always thought it to be the best wooden glider ever made. Another connection; I was taken for my first glider flight in 1968 by Peter Hanneman, ex RAF Red Arrows and recent New Australian. What chance that he was flying one of the (?) Hawker Hunters in the Opening Day aerobatic display? Peter may even have had a hand in the glider's purchase and he lives in Bathurst. Mike Timbrell is in a position to check, and I'm sure he'll let us know. Thanks for the memories. Paul Mander -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jarek Mosiejewski Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:44 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Something about Fokas but on much happier note. Recently discovered in the archives, Polish propaganda movie about the 1965 World Comps in South Cerney from the Polish team perspective: http://www.flyingtv.pl/film,lotnictwo62,filmy-0,ile-10,samolot-415.htm l If you can bear the comments in Polish, a very slow server and lengthy socialist propaganda scenes, there are some interesting moments showing the world comps in the 60b , including a Foka being rigged with the proper T-wrench. Regards Jarek ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription
Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney
Mike, perhaps the Gliding Federation of Australia Inc. maintainers of the registration and ownership of gliders records could be of assistance to your memory. - Original Message - From: Mike Timbrell To: 'Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia.' Sent: Monday, September 05, 2011 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney I am afraid that aircraft is not our Foka 4 GUW. I only have photos of the wreck now and the colour layout is different, same comp. number or not. Also the ID Plate shows our being built in 1967... bit of a mystery really. I wish it was ours because it's a great photo. Mike From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Kenneth Caldwell Sent: Monday, 5 September 2011 3:44 PM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Attached is a photo of the Foka, competition number 70, taken at the Seventh Australian National Gliding Championships held at Narromine (27th December 1966 - 9th January 1967). The Waikerie Boomerang is in the background. The Foka pilots were Jan Coolhaas and John Blackwell. Graham's photo is probably of Trevor Kyle's Foka 3 which he flew with Jan Coolhaas in the Sixth Nationals at Waikerie. Ken On Mon, Sep 5, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Mike Timbrell mike.timbr...@techpack.net.au wrote: No Graham, our Foka 4A had the reverse colouring. Mostly white with a burnt orange flash down the fuse. GUW. It was a beautiful thing to fly. I have now located the original identification plate. Build year 1967. Too bad, it would have been a good story. Mike -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Graham Watts Sent: Monday, 5 September 2011 11:30 AM To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Is this the one? I took this photo in 1965 or 1966 at Camden. George Detto in the cockpit if I remember. Graham On 4/09/2011 10:27 PM, Paul Mander wrote: Small world, Jarek. Having finally got to look at the footage, I see Foka IV, competition number 70. That was in 1965. In 1969 Mike Timbrell, a couple of other Sydney Tech Gliding Club members and I bought a Foka IV from the Bathurst Soaring Group, a syndicate of eight that included Merv Waghorn. They had owned the glider for a few years, so it must have been imported soon after 1965. It had competition number 70 on the fin, in exactly the same style as in the film. I think there is a strong chance that this is the same glider. I did my Silver and Gold flights in it, and thereby established some great friendships with members of the old Concordia Gliding Club during their camps at Forbes. We had that very rigging tool, never had a problem but one had to be careful with alignment. Sadly, the glider was written off in a take off accident; the Foka IV had huge spoilers, far too much drag for a mere Auster to overcome. It was an interesting glider, all wood, having no spar. It depended on its thick plywood skins for the wings' strength. We encountered glue problems which thereafter always lurked, in my mind at least. Might have been a good thing that it went. Apart from that, I've always thought it to be the best wooden glider ever made. Another connection; I was taken for my first glider flight in 1968 by Peter Hanneman, ex RAF Red Arrows and recent New Australian. What chance that he was flying one of the (?) Hawker Hunters in the Opening Day aerobatic display? Peter may even have had a hand in the glider's purchase and he lives in Bathurst. Mike Timbrell is in a position to check, and I'm sure he'll let us know. Thanks for the memories. Paul Mander -Original Message- From: aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net [mailto:aus-soaring-boun...@lists.internode.on.net] On Behalf Of Jarek Mosiejewski Sent: Wednesday, 18 May 2011 6:44 AM To: aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Subject: [Aus-soaring] Fokas - South Carney Something about Fokas but on much happier note. Recently discovered in the archives, Polish propaganda movie about the 1965 World Comps in South Cerney from the Polish team perspective: http://www.flyingtv.pl/film,lotnictwo62,filmy-0,ile-10,samolot-415.htm l If you can bear the comments in Polish, a very slow server and lengthy socialist propaganda scenes, there are some interesting moments showing the world comps in the 60b , including a Foka being rigged with the proper T-wrench. Regards Jarek ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details,
Re: [Aus-soaring] Media (sigh)
A second refutation posted: Red Baron says... 8:22am Wed 31 Aug 11 (Z) The headline makes it sound as if the pilot was in trouble and crashed. I agree that the glider made a landing in a field, no doubt because the pilot could not find any rising thermals to gain height. Safe and controlled landing by the look of the picture. The photographer was just being alarmist in stating the distances to the nearest houses perhaps to get a non-event into the paper. - Original Message - From: tom claffey To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Media (sigh) One farmer at a time Mike! ;] -- From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: tom claffey to...@yahoo.com; Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Wednesday, 31 August 2011 2:17 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] Media (sigh) At 12:03 PM 31/08/2011, you wrote: Education of the public is the key here. Okay Take a careful look around See any chance of success? Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring -- ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Media (sigh)
At least someone posted a refutation. http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/9222550.Glider_pilot_ditches_into_field/ http://www.worcesterstandard.co.uk/2011/08/30/story-Glider-crash-lands-close-to-estate-16147.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
Re: [Aus-soaring] September Special
That overides the Seniors Card discount I assume?:-) - Original Message - From: Mike Borgelt mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com To: Discussion of issues relating to Soaring in Australia. aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 2:01 PM Subject: Re: [Aus-soaring] September Special We're running a Special for the month of September 2011 B700 at A$792 plus shipping for orders during September. Normally A$847 plus shipping. The B700 is a great replacement for your old mechanical vario, easier to install (no flasks) and actually useful because of the audio, averager and integrator and the comparator of those. Details on our website www.borgeltinstruments.com The manual is there also and also details of the B800 and the manual for that. If you have an Oudie, the B800 was designed with the Oudie in mind. Hopefully this spring and summer will be better than the last one and have less rain. Mike Borgelt Instruments - manufacturers of quality soaring instruments since 1978 phone Int'l + 61 746 355784 fax Int'l + 61 746 358796 cellphone Int'l + 61 428 355784 email: mborg...@borgeltinstruments.com website: www.borgeltinstruments.com ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Media mangling
T'would be good to know the facts though. http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/article/20110821/NEWS01/308210007___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Celebration of centenary of soaring
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2011/08/16/003803-aviation-centennial-celebration-wright-soaring-record-planned-for-fall.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Where's the TTH - SMH 7 Aug
attachment: ipad-art-wide-attenborough-420x0.jpg___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Motor Glider Noise
From Stratford Upon Avon Herald. Was a winch club before. CONTROVERSIAL GLIDER APPLICATION GIVEN GREEN LIGHT PERMISSION has been granted to allow motorised gliders to operate at a club in Snitterfield, despite hundreds of objections from local residents. Objecters were outraged last night (Wednesday) when councillors on Stratford District Council's west area planning committee voted unanimously to support the application by Stratford Gliding Club. Planning officers had recommended the application be granted subject to a number of conditions, including that the motorised gliders can only be launched from the airfield on Bearley Road between 9am and 8pm. In addition no more than 20 launches can be carried out each day. For the full story see next week's Midweek. What do you think? Send your views to rsm...@stratford-herald.com Posted on Thursday 28th July. ___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Over yet ?
http://www.swrnn.com/2011/07/25/riverside-county-new-rules-coming-for-glider-pilots-at-hemet-ryan-airport/___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
[Aus-soaring] Sydney Morn Herald article
http://www.smh.com.au/travel/going-with-the-wind-20110720-1ho8b.html___ Aus-soaring mailing list Aus-soaring@lists.internode.on.net To check or change subscription details, visit: http://lists.internode.on.net/mailman/listinfo/aus-soaring
