Re: ASP.Net, ADAM, Membership Providers and Role Providers
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:18 PM, Tony Wright ton...@tpg.com.au wrote: Hi all, I am currently trying to get ASP.Net working with ADAM (which is the lightweight Active Directory for Applications) on a Windows XP SP3 machine. I have configured ASP.Net membership and role providers in the web.config file. I have opened up the ASP.Net web administration tool. I can successfully create a user (using the wizard) and create roles. The roles are turning up in the Authorization Manager, and the users are turning up in ADAM, which I can see using ADSI Edit. But when the administration tool attempts to add a user to a role, it causes an exception. The reason for the exception, I believe, is that there appears to be no way for the user to be identified within the Authorization Manager, so the user can’t actually be added to the role there. I currently can’t go into the Authorization Manager and manually add a user, coming from the membership container, into the role in the AzMan container. I believe that I should be able to add a user from the membership container into the roles in Authorization Manager. Does anyone know how I can bridge this? Sorry to be an idiot and ask the obvious, but can you send the exception? I'll admit, I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, but perhaps it has some useful info. Regards, Tony -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: [OT] Bill gates on our energy futures - some tech miracles needed
Hi Tony, I'm not intent on winning any argument and I think you really fundamentally misunderstand my position. I have only suggested that people should accept a multitude of viewpoints and not accept something being given to them them prima facie. Current pro-AGW research is far from beyond reproach (in my view) - and I think that any arguments that are along the lines of 'accept scientists because that have proofs and facts' are invalid based on the deportment of the climate research community. One thing I have noticed in this thread is that I have stated that I'm willing to look at both sides of the argument and have been for some time (for the record, I started out at this stuff as a worried person (at the birth of my first son)) and I've ended up being pushed more to the skeptic camp than the pro camp - mostly by pro-agw material I have mentioned elsewhere (ESPECIALLY having pretty tame comments censored on rc). Your reply ends in: So tell me, seeing as it is that important that you win an argument - what argument did you win? In my experience, this is pretty common in talking about AGW. Someone starts a discussion (and my question to you was really as above - I really did not know) but sooner or later is descends into some sort of narky argument. It is probably more polite to fart at a party than even hint that you might have an open mind to the skeptical side of the AGW debate. As you say I think you miss the point. It's not about whether or not we should have a debate about it. And I think it is. I don't think we will ever agree on that point. More below: On 25 February 2010 19:07, Tony Wright ton...@tpg.com.au wrote: [ Arctic sea ice, antarctic sea ice, Archimede's principle, etc deleted to keep the thread under control length wise ] I don't disagree with much of what you have written. Also, I don't dispute that the Earth has been and is generally warming for a period of at least a few hundred years. I accept your point about sea ice via land ice and to be honest, without further research I don't have an opinion on antarctic land ice *mass*. I do have an opinion that the antarctic warming research done by Steig et al is probably garbage based on station siting issues and some other errors in his most recent (I think most recent) paper on the topic. My understanding is that much of the temperature inferencing across West and East antarctica was done via a lot of fairly dubious interpolation - at least in the material I have read over the past year or so since it was released. Now, hopefully not being alarmist, the Australian Antarctic Division are predicting a maximum rise of 2 metres, and a probable rise of 0.8 metres over the next 100 years. It will be interesting to see when this is reflected in real-estate prices. ;) The reason why Antarctica is not melting as fast as they first thought was due to the hole in the Ozone layer. They are worried that when the Ozone layer finally repairs itself, however, the temperature could rise dramatically, and they may need to revise these figures (I note that no one argued that there's no Ozone hole.) Link: http://www.aad.gov.au/MediaLibrary/asset/MediaItems/ml_399765016087963_PA04_ Ice%20Sheets_FIN_MEDIA_090610.pdfhttp://www.aad.gov.au/MediaLibrary/asset/MediaItems/ml_399765016087963_PA04_Ice%20Sheets_FIN_MEDIA_090610.pdf You've lost me at the when the ozone layer finally repairs itself. 1. What does a normal ozone layer look like and how would we know? 2. The PDF at the link you send me does not contain the words ozone or hole. 3. What did the ozone hole look like, for example, during the MWP? Again, I am not asking a leading question ... but i'd venture we have f'all data since before satellite obs. I note that no one argued that there's no Ozone hole.: I have never met anyone dispute the existence of it either - but I have met a lot of people who dispute the cause or historical precedence. We do have a weather problem, whether you like it or not. Fair enough ... you have a foregone conclusion and there is probably no way we will see each other's point of view. Again, you need to understand that I do not dispute that climate changes or that it has been warming (since pre-industrial times). The world is going to do what it's going to do, regardless of whether you think you've won an argument. So tell me, seeing as it is that important that you win an argument - what argument did you win? I wasn't trying to win an argument. My position remains flexible and nuanced. -- David Connors (da...@codify.com) Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
Re: [OT] Bill gates on our energy futures - some tech miracles needed
On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 11:44 PM, David Connors da...@codify.com wrote: I wasn't trying to win an argument. My position remains flexible and nuanced. Mm, I think I need to add this as a disclaimer to the end of all of my emails. -- David Connors (da...@codify.com) Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: [OT] Bill gates on our energy futures - some tech miracles needed
On 24 February 2010 08:56, Craig van Nieuwkerk crai...@gmail.com wrote: really eye popping reading. Conspiracy to delete data, fudge data and models, ensuring the deletion of mail at Hadley and uPen on impending If you take 10 years of emails and correspondence between people in an organisation and pick out a few little bits here and there you can pretty much come up any conclusion you want about someone. The email leaks were meaningless unless you have read ALL of it and been across ALL of their research and correspondence. For example, your email above says ensuring the deletion of mail. I can take this to mean you are trying to cover up some nefarious deed by telling people you are emailing around ensuring the deletion of mail. Of course not, because I have totally take it out of context, just like the emails from the scientists above. God this sounds like something straight off realclimate. Before saying the above, I think you need to *READ* the CRU e-mails and source. Seriously. The material is dreadful. *Beyond dreadful*. You cannot make this stuff up dreadful. There is NOTHING in the UEA leak/hack archives along the lines of your ensuring deletion of mail example. Check this stuff from Phil Jones (the currently (voluntarily) stood down head of the CRU at UEA) ... stuff in [ and ] is from me: And don't leave stuff lying around on ftp sites - you never know who is trawling them. The two MMs [ referring to McKitrick and McIntyre - the main hockey stick debunkers ] have been after the CRU station data for years. If they ever hear there is a Freedom of Information Act now in the UK, I think I'll delete the file rather than send to anyone. The UK works on [Freedom of Information] precedents, so the first request will test it. We also have a data protection act, which I will hide behind. Tom Wigley has sent me a worried email when he heard about it - thought people could ask him for his [ climate ] model code. He has retired officially from UEA so he can hide behind that. Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4? Keith will do likewise. He's not in at the moment - minor family crisis. Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don't have his new email address. We will be getting Caspar to do likewise. I see that CA [ climateaudit.org ] claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature paper!! Phl Jones, Dec 3, 2008: About 2 months ago I deleted loads of emails, so have very little – if anything at all. Phil Jones, Nov 24, 2009 in The Guardian We’ve not deleted any emails or data here at CRU. If anything, I would like to see the climate change happen, so the science could be proved right, regardless of the consequences. This isn’t being political, it is being selfish. I can't see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin and I will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is! Perhaps we should encourage our colleagues in the climate research community to no longer submit to, or cite papers in, this journal, -- (Mann not Jones) “I will be emailing the journal [where the editor is sympathetic to a skeptical view point] to tell them I’m having nothing more to do with it until they rid themselves of this troublesome editor.” We have 25 or so years invested in the work. Why should I [ Phil Jones ] make the data available to you [ Australian scientist Warwick Hughes ] , when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it. There is IPR to consider. All very scientific and entirely out of context as you suggest, right? From the HEAD of the Climate Research Unit at University of East Anglia. Read the original mails yourself - they're widely available on the 'net. When you're done with that have a crack at some of the source code. It'd be different if this was from some inconsequential bit player - but it is not. Again, of course, none of this disproves any particular scientific theory re AGW. If you take 10 years of emails and correspondence between people in an organisation and pick out a few little bits here and there you can pretty much come up any conclusion you want about someone. The above is not a 'few bits here and there' and it is just what I pulled up over a few quick google searches on the UEA archive. I am happy to say there is nothing like any of the above in my inbox or sent items. -- David Connors (da...@codify.com) Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 3210 6268 | Facsimile: +61 (7) 3210 6269 | Mobile: +61 417 189 363 V-Card: https://www.codify.com/cards/davidconnors Address Info: https://www.codify.com/contact
[OT] Multiple questions in an email
Greetings all, Has anyone else noticed people often don't answer more than one question in an email? In fact, I'll generalise that and say people often don't read an entire email. I had this today (already) but this happens to me all the time (it's probably more like 25% of the time but I think the exaggeration is justified). This is particularly annoying when the main question isn't the first one (such as today's incident). eg, Please tell me A and B but I really want to know about C will usually just get me the answer to A. I don't want to have to twitterize my emails into single sentences of a few small words. I wonder how many people on this list didn't get past the first sentence :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 8:41 AM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Greetings all, Has anyone else noticed people often don't answer more than one question in an email? In fact, I'll generalise that and say people often don't read an entire email. I had this today (already) but this happens to me all the time (it's probably more like 25% of the time but I think the exaggeration is justified). I don't notice this really, but I tend to put all items people need to respond to in a list: - like so, - and thus - etc Which generally gets the appropriate result. But I do think if the question was phrased how you've shown below, I may accidentally ignore 'C' while answering 'A'. Maybe. This is particularly annoying when the main question isn't the first one (such as today's incident). eg, Please tell me A and B but I really want to know about C will usually just get me the answer to A. I don't want to have to twitterize my emails into single sentences of a few small words. Sometimes, when (professional) emails I send get too long, I'll write a little Summary area at the bottom. It works well, because bored people just read the summary, and then decide if the entire thing is of interest. I wonder how many people on this list didn't get past the first sentence :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
It is funny you should say this. One of the guys i work with at a partner company and I always say include only one fact per email. :) I try to do that but when requirements get complicated it can get hard. -- David Connors Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 32106269 | Facsimilie: +61 (7) 32106269 Mobile: +61 417189363 Address Info: http://www.codify.com/AboutUs/ContactDetails This message was sent from my phone. Please excuse the brevity. On 26/02/2010, at 7:41 AM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Greetings all, Has anyone else noticed people often don't answer more than one question in an email? In fact, I'll generalise that and say people often don't read an entire email. I had this today (already) but this happens to me all the time (it's probably more like 25% of the time but I think the exaggeration is justified). This is particularly annoying when the main question isn't the first one (such as today's incident). eg, Please tell me A and B but I really want to know about C will usually just get me the answer to A. I don't want to have to twitterize my emails into single sentences of a few small words. I wonder how many people on this list didn't get past the first sentence :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
My rule of thumb is if the email starts to get too complicated pick up the good old phone :-) On 26 February 2010 08:25, David Connors da...@codify.com wrote: It is funny you should say this. One of the guys i work with at a partner company and I always say include only one fact per email. :) I try to do that but when requirements get complicated it can get hard. -- David Connors Software Engineer Codify Pty Ltd - www.codify.com Phone: +61 (7) 32106269 | Facsimilie: +61 (7) 32106269 Mobile: +61 417189363 Address Info: http://www.codify.com/AboutUs/ContactDetails This message was sent from my phone. Please excuse the brevity. On 26/02/2010, at 7:41 AM, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Greetings all, Has anyone else noticed people often don't answer more than one question in an email? In fact, I'll generalise that and say people often don't read an entire email. I had this today (already) but this happens to me all the time (it's probably more like 25% of the time but I think the exaggeration is justified). This is particularly annoying when the main question isn't the first one (such as today's incident). eg, Please tell me A and B but I really want to know about C will usually just get me the answer to A. I don't want to have to twitterize my emails into single sentences of a few small words. I wonder how many people on this list didn't get past the first sentence :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
People don't read more than the first 2 lines of emails. For example I stopped reading after I'll generalise :) Regards Arjang On 26 February 2010 08:41, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Greetings all, Has anyone else noticed people often don't answer more than one question in an email? In fact, I'll generalise that and say people often don't read an entire email. I had this today (already) but this happens to me all the time (it's probably more like 25% of the time but I think the exaggeration is justified). This is particularly annoying when the main question isn't the first one (such as today's incident). eg, Please tell me A and B but I really want to know about C will usually just get me the answer to A. I don't want to have to twitterize my emails into single sentences of a few small words. I wonder how many people on this list didn't get past the first sentence :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
The problem with using emails as requirements documents... Q: Where are the requirements for the cruise control software? A: I'll forward you the email trail of the discussions I had with Toyota. a year or so goes by Q: Don't you know the cruise control should disengage when you brake? A: Sorry I didn't read that part of the email. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.comwrote: People don't read more than the first 2 lines of emails. For example I stopped reading after I'll generalise :) Regards Arjang On 26 February 2010 08:41, David Richards ausdot...@davidsuniverse.com wrote: Greetings all, Has anyone else noticed people often don't answer more than one question in an email? In fact, I'll generalise that and say people often don't read an entire email. I had this today (already) but this happens to me all the time (it's probably more like 25% of the time but I think the exaggeration is justified). This is particularly annoying when the main question isn't the first one (such as today's incident). eg, Please tell me A and B but I really want to know about C will usually just get me the answer to A. I don't want to have to twitterize my emails into single sentences of a few small words. I wonder how many people on this list didn't get past the first sentence :) David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
Re: Intresting Stuff in (.net) world? [OT-TGIF]
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I remember a post on this forum about framework for ditributed stuff ( aka intresting stuff ). Distributed how? You mean Parallel Linq? And other such things? http://blogs.msdn.com/pfxteam/ Or do you mean from a DB point of view? Like CouchDB or have you read about Hadoop? And friends? Any new/non-run of the mill projects/framework anyone has found intresting lately? (Not neccerilyly .net) The most interesting one I've found recently would be Gendarme. Aside from that, I don't know. I'd say dashy, but that needs a new release before I really feel comfortable with it. Regards -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
You mean that's not the norm? :) Requirements docs are like bigfoot. You are assured it exists but when you see it, you are disappointed to find it is little more than just do it. Plus its wearing a digital watch. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 09:56, Jonathan Parker jonathanparkerem...@gmail.com wrote: The problem with using emails as requirements documents... Q: Where are the requirements for the cruise control software? A: I'll forward you the email trail of the discussions I had with Toyota. a year or so goes by Q: Don't you know the cruise control should disengage when you brake? A: Sorry I didn't read that part of the email. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: People don't read more than the first 2 lines of emails. For example I stopped reading after I'll generalise :) Regards Arjang
Business Rules , what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement them in .net?
what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement business rules in .net? In the book Wisdom of the Gurus in Business Rules chapter by James J. Odell the fact that most of times business rules are actually by product of how a system should behave has been mentioned. My Question is how is one to reformulate the business rules that expressed in natural language to Object Behaviour by implementing them using Events and Methods? For example the rule: Do not take new order from customers that have more than 3 outstanding invoices, following combinations for implementation come to mind : 1.Implement some checking in the AccpetOrder method of Order class 2.Implement some checking in the AddOrder method of Customer class n. Implement some checking in the X method of Y class. A.In the Order.BeforeAcceptNewOrder event do the checking and revoke further processing using the BeforeAcceptNewOrderEventArg B.In the X.BeforeY event do the checking and revoke further processing using the BeforeYEventArg. 4.Some other behavioral modification using Events, so the interaction of objects can change dynamically ( as opposed to hard coding business rules ). There are just too many combinations / degrees of freedom in translating business rules into implementation, but surely by now a more holistic has come to being, anyone knows where or how to find them ? Regards Arjang
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
What is needed is a replacement of email. A format that allows editing and versioning built into the email client. Then you can say. Ahh. Jim changed this line of the email on this date and then Jane changed it again a week later. It will save millions of dollars in bandwidth costs too. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.com wrote: Sounds like SSW rules to better email http://sharepoint.ssw.com.au/Standards/Communication/RulesToBetterEmail/Pages/SendTasksOneEmailAtATime.aspx But you can not make a 100% rule it depends on the work style of the person you are sending the email to. If there is more than two items, start with... Hi Fred, There are two things I need from you - X - Y
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
Ah... _That_ already exists. It's called Google wave. https://wave.google.com/wave/ -- noonie On 26 February 2010 12:00, Jonathan Parker jonathanparkerem...@gmail.comwrote: What is needed is a replacement of email. A format that allows editing and versioning built into the email client. Then you can say. Ahh. Jim changed this line of the email on this date and then Jane changed it again a week later. It will save millions of dollars in bandwidth costs too. On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Greg Harris g...@harrisconsultinggroup.com wrote: Sounds like SSW rules to better email http://sharepoint.ssw.com.au/Standards/Communication/RulesToBetterEmail/Pages/SendTasksOneEmailAtATime.aspx But you can not make a 100% rule it depends on the work style of the person you are sending the email to. If there is more than two items, start with... Hi Fred, There are two things I need from you - X - Y
RE: Business Rules , what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement them in .net?
Surely there must be some sort of canonical form to implementation, otherwise we are not software makers and just duct taping hodge podge together. So there is a canonical form to bridge implementation. That explains why all bridges look the same. No? I studied both Computer Science and Civil Engineering and for Structural Engineering in second year we had to design and build a bridge to support 1 tonne over a 1m span using steel L-section and plate of various sizes. During the design stage one student asked the lecturer what the right answer was. He got a scathing reply that there is no right (canonical) answer in engineering. Rather, there are endless possible solutions, some are better than others, some are not fit for purpose, and all trade off different things. I think software engineering is exactly the same, although with much less history and consequently a less mature body of knowledge. To say software should have a canonical solution like building or bridge engineers is to misunderstand the nature of both software and civil engineering IMO. Regards, Ben -Original Message- From: ausdotnet-boun...@lists.codify.com [mailto:ausdotnet-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Arjang Assadi Sent: Friday, 26 February 2010 9:05 AM To: michaelsli...@gmail.com; ausDotNet Subject: Re: Business Rules , what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement them in .net? I wish I could agree with that, but how does what we as software engineers do differs from the building or bridge engineers, surely they don't build bridges or building on what they perceive to be the right way. Surely there must be some sort of canonical form to implementation, otherwise we are not software makers and just duct taping hodge podge together. Every (software) system will gravitate towards maximum entropy and minimum order and the programmer's job is to stablised it by imposing order and decreasing the entropy. Having a structure for defining how a system should be implemented would reduce the number of possible permutation and hence decrease the entropy. I believe a systematic approach to defining and implementation is necessary other wise we are just adding to total sum of junk in the world. Regards Arjang On 26 February 2010 11:21, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote: On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement business rules in .net? Honestly, isn't *every* rule a business rule? Shouldn't you just handle it via, you know, development?! And then test it via unit testing? I don't understand all this timewasting rubbish about spec'ing it out in some language that you then need to test in-and-of-itself and then have that generate it in yet another lower language. You haven't solved anything with that approach anyway. You've just shifted your problem. It's good sometimes, it's bad sometimes, it's not an answer to the underlying issue that to implement Business Rules you need to: 1. Understand them 2. Know how to program them 3. Test them This is our job - this is the purpose of programming. Converting ideas into things, and things into useful things, working things, correct things, and fun things. There are just too many combinations / degrees of freedom in translating business rules into implementation, but surely by now a more holistic has come to being, anyone knows where or how to find them ? Yes - your brain. It is the translation mechanism. Regards Arjang -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/ This email is intended for the named recipient only. The information it contains may be confidential or commercially sensitive. If you are not the intended recipient you must not reproduce or distribute any part of this email, disclose its contents to any other party, or take any action in reliance on it. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender immediately and delete the message from your computer.
Re: Business Rules , what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement them in .net?
Silky,
I have to disagree with you...
C#/VB is not the cure to all problems; there are other languages out there!
I have not used a business rules language as such, but I can see real value
in a language where you can show an end user the source code of a set of
business rules like...
TotalClaims = Sum ( ClaimItems )
If TotalClaims ClaimLimit Then ClaimLimitExceeded
You should be able to get your client user to sign off on code like the
above, but try asking them to sign off on...
public bool ValidateClaimLimit( Claim aClaim )
{
decimal lTotalClaim = 0;
foreach ( ClaimItem lItem in aClaim.Items )
{
lTotalClaim += lItem.Value;
}
bool lResult = lTotalClaim _ClaimLimit;
return lResult;
}
If the business rules code can be read and understood by a client user and
compiled into executable code by a business rules engine, then I see real
value for it.
You say...
you need to:
1. Understand them
2. Know how to program them
3. Test them
I would say that you need to:
1.Review the rules
2.Document the rules
3.Understand the rules
4.Program the rules in a machine executable format
5.Test the rules
Your 12 are effectively my 1-4.
All of the steps would greatly helped or effectively eliminated by having
some form of rules engine.
So, I see real value in the question “what are the Tools/Methodologies to
categorise/Implement business rules in .net?”
Interesting to note that a quick search of Google gives 24M results for the
search “dot net business rules engine”.
Regards
Greg Harris
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:21 AM, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 11:07 AM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com
wrote:
what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement business
rules in .net?
Honestly, isn't *every* rule a business rule?
Shouldn't you just handle it via, you know, development?! And then
test it via unit testing? I don't understand all this timewasting
rubbish about spec'ing it out in some language that you then need to
test in-and-of-itself and then have that generate it in yet another
lower language.
You haven't solved anything with that approach anyway. You've just
shifted your problem. It's good sometimes, it's bad sometimes, it's
not an answer to the underlying issue that to implement Business
Rules you need to:
1. Understand them
2. Know how to program them
3. Test them
This is our job - this is the purpose of programming. Converting ideas
into things, and things into useful things, working things, correct
things, and fun things.
There are just too many combinations / degrees of freedom in
translating business rules into implementation, but surely by now a
more holistic has come to being, anyone knows where or how to find
them ?
Yes - your brain. It is the translation mechanism.
Regards
Arjang
--
silky
http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: unit testing in visual studio
Well, I believe you can read the current random port that it wants to use from the config (so if you desired, you could do that). However, you should be able to simply change the project properties so that instead of using the inbuilt asp.net webservice, it uses your local IIS one. Infact, you can just set the port in the same properties area (right click the web project, select Properties go to the Web tab). On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:27 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: I've got a weird situation going on. Hopefully someone knows which (probably simple) button to click to do to get it working the way i want it. I've got a largish solution full of different projects. also part of the solution is a set of testing projects. one of the projects in the solution is a web service (simple boring web service, not wcf or anything). the web service project is set to, when debugging etc, use the asp net file system based development web server, and is set to always start listening on the same port (say, ). and that works fine and when just running in the debugger everything is good and the web service gets called on port . When i run unit tests, however, it somehow knows there's a web service involved - and it starts the web service, but starts it on a random port. All well and good, except that all my code that in the other projects that call the web wervice pull the url to use from the app.config file that specifies the port of . End result - all the calls to the web service fail because its been started on some other port. Interestingly, i've noticed two strange behaviours: 1) if i manually start a new debugging instance of the web service, it will start on . If i leave it running and then start the unit tests, it ALSO starts teh web service on a random port, but the tests i have that call code that invokes web service succeed because it can connect on . 2) one of my tests, so far, test a function that lives INSIDE the web service and relies on a the HttpContext object. Iv'e decorated this unit test saying HostType(ASP.NET), AspNetDevelopmentServerHost(file system path to the web service) and UrlToTest(http://localhost:/WebForm1.aspx;) ... and it happily runs the test inside the file system web server...on the RANDOM port, not port - which means the test always succeeds, regardless of point 1) above. I've read up on the webtesthelper.redirecturl (or words to that effect) helper class, but that's no good because it works on a web service reference object - and in my case the web service reference object is buried deep within a class library - my test is calling a public method on the class library that internally instantiates teh web service object and invokes it, all based on config file values. so in short - anyone know how to stop the test engine starting the web service on a random port, but to start it on a fixed port instead? -- Geoff Appleby Blog: http://blogs.crankygoblin.com/blogs/geoff.appleby/ -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: Business Rules , what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement them in .net?
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:44 PM, Greg Harris harris.gre...@gmail.com wrote: Silky, I have to disagree with you... Be my guest. C#/VB is not the cure to all problems; there are other languages out there! I never said otherwise. I have not used a business rules language as such, but I can see real value in a language where you can show an end user the source code of a set of business rules like... TotalClaims = Sum ( ClaimItems ) If TotalClaims ClaimLimit Then ClaimLimitExceeded You really show your end users/clients, code? Instead of outlining all of what has been tested (i.e. scenarios)? I don't think showing real people code like the above is particularly useful (or even good). [...] If the business rules code can be read and understood by a client user and compiled into executable code by a business rules engine, then I see real value for it. You say... you need to: 1. Understand them 2. Know how to program them 3. Test them I would say that you need to: 1. Review the rules 2. Document the rules 3. Understand the rules 4. Program the rules in a machine executable format 5. Test the rules Your 12 are effectively my 1-4. All of the steps would greatly helped or effectively eliminated by having some form of rules engine. I disagree. I think you've just moved your code into a new language. So you can program in a new language, so what. Do it or don't do it, what do I care. It's just a different language. Present your information to clients/managers however is best for them. If they understand the statements of a basic programming language, good. Probably, they don't, because it may be hard to convey edge cases, or context, or they will assume various things that aren't true. Whatever works, really. I took issue with the idea there is some magical modelling process you can do to make your code suddenly correct. The process is called programming and it can take place in whatever language is appropriate. Maybe two languages, if it's relevant (one to generate an implementation in other). This is fine, if it works. I don't have any strong opinions about it. So, I see real value in the question “what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement business rules in .net?” Interesting to note that a quick search of Google gives 24M results for the search “dot net business rules engine”. I've never based my opinion on what the majority of people do, or even what some sort of subset of people do; I base it only on what I think via the opinions formed from experience and research. Wrong or right, it's the way I operate. So I really don't care that there may be demand for it. Regards Greg Harris -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:00 PM, Jonathan Parker jonathanparkerem...@gmail.com wrote: What is needed is a replacement of email. A format that allows editing and versioning built into the email client. Then you can say. Ahh. Jim changed this line of the email on this date and then Jane changed it again a week later. It will save millions of dollars in bandwidth costs too. To a significant degree I think there is no replacement for people having to learn how to communicate. It's not that hard. -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: Business Rules , what are the Tools/Methodologies to categorise/Implement them in .net?
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 12:05 PM, Arjang Assadi arjang.ass...@gmail.com wrote: I wish I could agree with that, but how does what we as software engineers do differs from the building or bridge engineers, surely they don't build bridges or building on what they perceive to be the right way. Surely there must be some sort of canonical form to implementation, otherwise we are not software makers and just duct taping hodge podge together. Every (software) system will gravitate towards maximum entropy and minimum order and the programmer's job is to stablised it by imposing order and decreasing the entropy. Having a structure for defining how a system should be implemented would reduce the number of possible permutation and hence decrease the entropy. I believe a systematic approach to defining and implementation is necessary other wise we are just adding to total sum of junk in the world. Careful, if there is a systematic way to doing such things, you will soon find yourself replaced with a system :P Regards Arjang -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: unit testing in visual studio
But you're pretty fool. --Original Message-- From: silky To: Geoff Appleby Cc: ausDotNet ReplyTo: michaelsli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: unit testing in visual studio Sent: Feb 26, 2010 14:45 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: Heh. I'm a fool. I've already set the port that way. And that works in all cases _except_ when launching unit tests. -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry Storm
Re: unit testing in visual studio
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: But you're pretty fool. ... So, what system are you using to run the unit tests though? Test Driven.NET? I'm now slightly intrigued as to why it's randomly changing the port on you. -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
Re: unit testing in visual studio
Just the built in test projects that are part of 2008 team developer. --Original Message-- From: silky To: Geoff Appleby Cc: ausDotNet ReplyTo: michaelsli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: unit testing in visual studio Sent: Feb 26, 2010 14:51 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: But you're pretty fool. ... So, what system are you using to run the unit tests though? Test Driven.NET? I'm now slightly intrigued as to why it's randomly changing the port on you. -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry Storm
Re: unit testing in visual studio
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: Just the built in test projects that are part of 2008 team developer. ohhh, I see. Well, I've never used that. Have you looked at things like this? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms404693(VS.80).aspx -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/
RE: Splash Screen..thread safe
You should use Invoke to open the splash form on the main UI thread. http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/zyzhdc6b.aspx Nathan From: ausdotnet-boun...@lists.codify.com [mailto:ausdotnet-boun...@lists.codify.com] On Behalf Of Anthony Sent: Friday, 26 February 2010 12:50 PM To: 'ausDotNet' Subject: Splash Screen..thread safe I have created a class to so i can show a splah screen when ever i need to notify information to the user...works fine but having issues when i run it within a thread...how would i make it tread safe? I have instantiated it within the main form... Imports System.Windows.Forms Public Class FormSplash Dim oControl As Control() Dim oSplash As System.Windows.Forms.Form Sub New() oSplash = CreateSplash(, ) End Sub Public Sub ShowText(ByVal ParentForm As Form, ByVal sText As String) oSplash.StartPosition = FormStartPosition.Manual oSplash.Location = New System.Drawing.Point(ParentForm.Location.X + ((ParentForm.Bounds.Width - oSplash.Width) \ 2), ParentForm.Location.Y + ((ParentForm.Bounds.Height - oSplash.Height) \ 2)) oControl = oSplash.Controls.Find(label1, True) oControl(0).Text = sText Application.DoEvents() oSplash.Show() Application.DoEvents() End Sub Public Sub Hide() oSplash.Hide() End Sub Public Function CreateSplash(ByVal Header As String, ByVal sText As String) As Form Dim Splash As New Form Dim label1 As New Label label1 = New System.Windows.Forms.Label() Splash.SuspendLayout() ' ' label1 ' label1.AutoSize = True label1.Location = New System.Drawing.Point(13, 46) label1.Name = label1 label1.Size = New System.Drawing.Size(35, 13) label1.TabIndex = 0 label1.Text = sText ' ' Splash ' Splash.AutoScaleDimensions = New System.Drawing.SizeF(6.0F, 13.0F) Splash.AutoScaleMode = System.Windows.Forms.AutoScaleMode.Font Splash.ClientSize = New System.Drawing.Size(454, 97) Splash.ControlBox = False Splash.Controls.Add(label1) Splash.MaximizeBox = False Splash.MinimizeBox = False Splash.Name = Splash Splash.Opacity = 1 Splash.ShowIcon = False Splash.ShowInTaskbar = False Splash.Text = Header Splash.TopMost = True Splash.ResumeLayout(False) Splash.PerformLayout() Return Splash End Function End Class Is your website being IntelliXperienced?http://www.intellixperience.com/signup.aspx regards Anthony (*12QWERNB*) Is your website being IntelliXperienced?
Re: unit testing in visual studio
No I hadn't. But it have me an idea. Inside that file that I'd never thought to look inside. In there the web service URL had a port specified of 0. So in notepad I changed it to and its all behaving as expected now. Cheers :) --Original Message-- From: silky To: Geoff Appleby Cc: ausDotNet ReplyTo: michaelsli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: unit testing in visual studio Sent: Feb 26, 2010 14:55 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:55 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: Just the built in test projects that are part of 2008 team developer. ohhh, I see. Well, I've never used that. Have you looked at things like this? http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms404693(VS.80).aspx -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry Storm
Re: unit testing in visual studio
And how many times have you said that? :) --Original Message-- From: silky To: Geoff Appleby Cc: ausDotNet ReplyTo: michaelsli...@gmail.com Subject: Re: unit testing in visual studio Sent: Feb 26, 2010 15:18 On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 3:19 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: No I hadn't. But it have me an idea. Inside that file that I'd never thought to look inside. In there the web service URL had a port specified of 0. So in notepad I changed it to and its all behaving as expected now. Phew. I'm glad I slightly redeemed my initial foolishness in this thread, otherwise I may have had to quit programming. Cheers :) De nada -- silky http://www.programmingbranch.com/ Sent from my BlackBerry Storm
RE: Splash Screen..thread safe
Hi Anthony, I've just send you OFFLIST a copy of my splash screen class from a few years ago. Just in case it might help. The main form creates an instance of the splash class which runs its own message loop in an STA thread. You can call methods of the class to display progress messages from the parent form. Cheers, Greg
Re: [OT] Multiple questions in an email
I agree. I also think people are beginning to imagine email to be the same as things like IM, SMS, etc. Obviously it's not. I can take my original question/statement and expand it to include instructions in email. More often than not (not an exaggeration this time) people don't read my instruction properly. Even if they are bullet pointed or numbered. Considering the trend of comments in this thread, are people expecting a complex problem to be solved in two lines? Clearly not. So when you get a long email, it's long for a reason. Alternatively, perhaps failure to follow instructions is a different phenomenon. David If we can hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes will fall like a house of cards... checkmate! -Zapp Brannigan, Futurama On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 13:13, silky michaelsli...@gmail.com wrote: To a significant degree I think there is no replacement for people having to learn how to communicate. It's not that hard. -- silky
Re: unit testing in visual studio
On Fri, Feb 26, 2010 at 2:49 PM, Geoff Appleby geoff.appl...@gmail.com wrote: No I hadn't. But it have me an idea. Inside that file that I'd never thought to look inside. In there the web service URL had a port specified of 0. So in notepad I changed it to and its all behaving as expected now. Cheers :) Can you confirm what file that is? BTW I have worked with the Unit Testing random port like so: TestMethod(), _ AspNetDevelopmentServer(WebService1, _ C:\My Projects\MGM\Snc\Web Interface, /) _ Public Sub HelloWorldTest() Dim target As OurMultiUrlService = New OurMultiUrlService Dim expected As String = Hello, world! Dim actual As String target.Urls.Clear() target.Urls.AddRange(WebSetup(TestContext, WebService1)) actual = target.HelloWorld() Assert.AreEqual(expected, actual) End Sub '''- ''' Function: WebSetup ''' ''' summary ''' Determines the actual URL for the web services named. ''' /summary ''' ''' param name=TestContextThe current test context./param ''' param name=WebServiceNames ''' The name of the web service, as specified in the ''' see cref=Web.AspNetDevelopmentServerAttribute.Name / ''' parameter. ''' /param ''' ''' returnsThe array of actual URLs./returns ''' ''' remarks/remarks ''' ''' revisionhistory ''' 081017 MEH Created. ''' /revisionhistory '''- Public Function WebSetup(ByVal TestContext As TestContext, _ ByVal ParamArray WebServiceNames() As String) As String() For i = LBound(WebServiceNames) To UBound(WebServiceNames) Dim url = http://localhost/; Dim webservice = New HttpPostClientProtocol webservice.Url = url Assert.IsTrue(WebServiceHelper.TryUrlRedirection(webservice, TestContext, _ WebServiceNames(i))) Assert.IsTrue(i = LBound(WebServiceNames) _ OrElse WebServiceNames(i - 1) webservice.Url) WebServiceNames(i) = webservice.Url Next Return WebServiceNames End Function -- Regards, Mark Hurd, B.Sc.(Ma.)(Hons.)
