Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 22:07, Georgi Karavasilev motors...@gmail.comwrote: Hmm, you kinda missed my point at A) - if the launcher is at the bottom the Dash button will go the the bottom left. When on clicks on the Dash the control buttons will be on the panel in the top left which requires mouse movement to change Dash size or close it (assuming if you cick the close button to close it) and will look kinda broken. I definitely had missed that point. Thanks a ton for clarifying. I have to get to the drawing sheet and see what possible change could me given to the design so that, as I mentioned earlier, so that the consistency, including mouse traveling and other things, is invariant under the rotation of unity. As far as B goes - it's true the horizontal scroll bars are not used THAT much, but it I believe generally causes less distraction on the left I agree that it causes less distraction on the left but it, in the current form, increase the odds of hitting and calling it unnecessarily exponentially because of the reasons known to all of us. And there is C) when the dash button is at bottom left how will be the Dash outline position, so both the panel and the Dash have outline. The current Unity-rotated applies outline only and the Dash and not to the panel and it's doesn't look good :P I agree that is doesn't look good and that is why I think the design of unity might need a bit of tweaking so that also the beauty of the dash, or unity in general, remain invariant under the rotation of the left panel. One thing we could do is, visually free the dash-- the dash, I don't say the dash button, from the top bar and also from the left panel, make it more like an independent visually sleek window which could be outlined, bordered in the same way as it is now. :) -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
LOL, not sure Thunderbird send my previous email correctly, so sending it again :P _ Well, if you do some mockups for A) and C) it would rock! :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Unity's personality, design, imposes that it's on the left... Il giorno martedì 29 novembre 2011, Christian Rupp christ...@r-k-r.de ha scritto: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Hmm, there are two major cons with bottom launcher: A) The dash control buttons are on the top left (maximaze and close), what happens when the Ubuntu buttom is at the bottom left and those buttons on the top left? B) Due to the fact that launcher is set to Dodge windows out of the box users may invoke the launcher instead of the bottom scrollbar by accident (when the launcher is no set to Always visible) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On Mon, Jan 30, 2012 at 16:17, Georgi Karavasilev motors...@gmail.comwrote: Hmm, there are two major cons with bottom launcher: A) The dash control buttons are on the top left (maximaze and close), what happens when the Ubuntu buttom is at the bottom left and those buttons on the top left? Just like it happen with other applications. when not maximized it remains on the dash itself and when maximized it goes to the top left corner. B) Due to the fact that launcher is set to Dodge windows out of the box users may invoke the launcher instead of the bottom scrollbar by accident (when the launcher is no set to Always visible) I personally rarely use the bottom, that is horizontal, scroll bar and most applications, again according to my personal experience, doesn't use bottom area for the clickable buttons that are to be clicked too often. I had always had global menu on the top panel and the cairo dock at the bottom set to dodge the windows. I don't remember myself getting annoyed for dock showing unnecessarily as an uninvited guest. I guess, I didn't had to bring my pointer too close to the bottom edge as I have to bring it to the left edge. If I am sounding too illogical please forgive my ignorance. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Hmm, you kinda missed my point at A) - if the launcher is at the bottom the Dash button will go the the bottom left. When on clicks on the Dash the control buttons will be on the panel in the top left which requires mouse movement to change Dash size or close it (assuming if you cick the close button to close it) and will look kinda broken. As far as B goes - it's true the horizontal scrollbars are not used THAT much, but it I believe generally causes less distraction on the left And there is C) when the dash button is at bottom left how will be the Dash outline position, so both the panel and the Dash have outline. The current Unity-rotated applies outline only and the Dash and not to the panel and it's doesn't look good :P ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Wont be added for the LTS as it would add too much new and potentially unstable code, might afterwards though. Have you considered changing the panel reveal area to the top left corner (Like it was in Natty)? Date: Thu, 26 Jan 2012 18:13:37 +0100 From: sunil.r...@gmail.com To: davor.bu...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom Dear friends, Discussion on the bottom unity seem to have stuck.Here in this mail I present my experience with the users who used ubuntu first time. Be it that I installed it on their computer or they uses it on my computer, each of them, yes without an exception, had trouble with the left side panel showing as an uninvited guest, and it really annoyed them just as it annoy me some time. I reread all the mails in the thread and I think we need to ask ourselves questions about the current design. 1) Why do we want the launcher on the left, is it only to save the vertical space or there is more to it? 2) What is the philosophy behind the current design. I think Swapnil had some important things about the design of unity. I think we need to clearly note down the philosophy behind the current design. This question is important. The sense I got from the above discussion is that the current design tries to give value to the word unity by unifying the left launcher, dash and the top panel. If that is the only intent, I am sure we can have some better, more symmetric design which preserves the philosophy of the design ( this is what I call unifying) under the position changing of the left panel. 3) Do we actually believe that we can pave our way through the ecosystem where apps assume left edge free of panels, and force them to write applications optimized for unity look. 4) One of the main thing in the design should be to minimize the number of steps and/or mouse traversal distance to do the intended action. I think the position of lenses at the bottom of dash increases the mouse travel in comparison to have them below the search bar. I personally think. Having the Dash in the center of the screen, leaving space on all the sides when not maximized is more symmetric.To give a unified look we also could give the dash a visual 3D effect to visualize it out of the desktop, connect the corners of the screen with the corners of the dash thus giving it a box like look. whose five faces are visible and desktop as the bottom face. its just an Idea. I am sure people have better ideas to give a unified look. I hope I made myself clear enough to understand. I attached a image to demonstrate that how difficult can it be to use the kind of app in the image which has so much clickable area along the left edge. Thanks to all of you. On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 23:29, Davor davor.bu...@gmail.com wrote: Dana Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:15:12 +0100, Ryan Gauger rtg...@gmail.com napisao/napisala je: It does give more customization to users. I understood what Shuttleworth said about why Unity wasn't more customizable in Natty: because it was a 1.0. But now that it's not a total 1.0 anymore, why not add some more customization like being able to choose the position of the launcher? I also like the idea that it could also be on the right side of the screen. I absolutely agree - easier to use (for right handed too) - window controls in well known place A lot of people reading this might be thinking What about indicators? Well, they could be moved over a bit, or just stay where they are, since the Dash Home button is not on the top panel anymore. Good thinking, Christian! ---Ryan On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Christian Rupp christ...@r-k-r.de wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Davor Buday ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On 01/26/2012 07:13 PM, Sunil Singh Rana wrote: Dear friends, Discussion on the bottom unity seem to have stuck. Here in this mail I present my experience with the users who used ubuntu first time. Be it that I installed it on their computer or they uses it on my computer, each of them, yes without an exception, had trouble with the left side panel showing as an uninvited guest, and it really annoyed them just as it annoy me some time. I reread all the mails in the thread and I think we need to ask ourselves questions about the current design. 1) Why do we want the launcher on the left, is it only to save the vertical space or there is more to it? To give some more meaning to the left positioning - the system menu (shut down etc) is on the right . Donno if you had to choose a side what would have you chosen ? I just think it's the best choice , not by much , but the bes one 2) What is the philosophy behind the current design. I think Swapnil had some important things about the design of unity. I think we need to clearly note down the philosophy behind the current design. This question is important. The sense I got from the above discussion is that the current design tries to give value to the word unity by unifying the left launcher, dash and the top panel. If that is the only intent, I am sure we can have some better, more symmetric design which preserves the philosophy of the design ( this is what I call unifying) under the position changing of the left panel. 3) Do we actually believe that we can pave our way through the ecosystem where apps assume left edge free of panels, and force them to write applications optimized for unity look. Well I believe that right positioning (that is available in oneiric) solves that problem . 4) One of the main thing in the design should be to minimize the number of steps and/or mouse traversal distance to do the intended action. I think the position of lenses at the bottom of dash increases the mouse travel in comparison to have them below the search bar. I personally think. Having the Dash in the center of the screen, leaving space on all the sides when not maximized is more symmetric. Yes , but you just said about saving mouse movement - // maybe make the fullscreen dash the centered version you're thinking about ,and making unity remember if the dash was maximized or not (so that if you want to use it only maximized you don't have to do it on every opening). To give a unified look we also could give the dash a visual 3D effect to visualize it out of the desktop, connect the corners of the screen with the corners of the dash thus giving it a box like look. whose five faces are visible and desktop as the bottom face. its just an Idea. I am sure people have better ideas to give a unified look. I hope I made myself clear enough to understand. I attached a image to demonstrate that how difficult can it be to use the kind of app in the image which has so much clickable area along the left edge. Thanks to all of you. Overall I'm pro more configuration options thus pro having the ability to put Unity at the bottom . I think it would be nice and since the dash is an icon now ,it wouldn't be a problem . ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example. Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example, also have a lot of links very close to left edge. I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we come up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel. On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Friends, I hope all of you are having fun. :) Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner becomes a problem to give a consistent design. It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on completely different set of axiom. I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button. We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann cgerm...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
I understand what people are saying but I agree that it makes little sense to try desperately to preserve the vertical space by sticking the launcher on the left side in an app ecosystem designed for the launcher or dock to be at the bottom. If that be the case then the reasons that integrate the menu bar with the launcher are no longer relevant, because why the launcher should be on the side in the first place is a fundamental idea. Honestly I think the best way to handle that is to default to the bottom, allow some cool integration when on the left side and let the user pick in the settings. But that's just my opinion. On Dec 1, 2011 4:11 AM, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example. Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example, also have a lot of links very close to left edge. I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we come up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel. On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Friends, I hope all of you are having fun. :) Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner becomes a problem to give a consistent design. It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on completely different set of axiom. I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button. We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann cgerm...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On Thu, Dec 1, 2011 at 15:21, Gino Vincenzini openmysourcec...@gmail.comwrote: I understand what people are saying but I agree that it makes little sense to try desperately to preserve the vertical space by sticking the launcher on the left side in an app ecosystem designed for the launcher or dock to be at the bottom. Very well said. Thanks for putting it so clearly. If that be the case then the reasons that integrate the menu bar with the launcher are no longer relevant, because why the launcher should be on the side in the first place is a fundamental idea. Honestly I think the best way to handle that is to default to the bottom, allow some cool integration when on the left side and let the user pick in the settings. But that's just my opinion. On Dec 1, 2011 4:11 AM, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 05:18, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example. Agree. Specially the right side is always used by scroll bar of the application. Totems still have one bar, which mention time, in between. But the back arrow of the browser, one of the most use apps, is too close to the left bar. Quite some web-interfaces, Gmail for example, also have a lot of links very close to left edge. I hope I made it clear. Left side panel will remain annoying unless we come up with a well thought out mouse gesture to call the panel. On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Friends, I hope all of you are having fun. :) Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner becomes a problem to give a consistent design. It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on completely different set of axiom. I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button. We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann cgerm...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
we are discussing the menu on unmaximized windows on this bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/unity/+bug/682788 Date: Thu, 1 Dec 2011 00:43:55 +0100 Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom From: sunil.r...@gmail.com To: isan...@gmail.com CC: estela...@hotmail.com; ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough.About the circular button I meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think their design being circular is not consistent with the rest of the design of the unity. Which has more squarish throughout. I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but the point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the windows control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for the windows menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top bar. I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized) window itself. I got the idea of the design. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen without them. They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more consistent with the rest of Unity. Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's very pleasing. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. Hi, May I please request to make those several other points of Unity more clear. Please forgive my ignorance. I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel. I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors. I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again. So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to make a consistent design. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
It does give more customization to users. I understood what Shuttleworth said about why Unity wasn't more customizable in Natty: because it was a 1.0. But now that it's not a total 1.0 anymore, why not add some more customization like being able to choose the position of the launcher? I also like the idea that it could also be on the right side of the screen. A lot of people reading this might be thinking What about indicators? Well, they could be moved over a bit, or just stay where they are, since the Dash Home button is not on the top panel anymore. Good thinking, Christian! ---Ryan On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Christian Rupp christ...@r-k-r.de wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Dana Thu, 01 Dec 2011 22:15:12 +0100, Ryan Gauger rtg...@gmail.com napisao/napisala je: It does give more customization to users. I understood what Shuttleworth said about why Unity wasn't more customizable in Natty: because it was a 1.0. But now that it's not a total 1.0 anymore, why not add some more customization like being able to choose the position of the launcher? I also like the idea that it could also be on the right side of the screen.I absolutely agree - easier to use (for right handed too) - window controls in well known place A lot of people reading this might be thinking "What about indicators?" Well, they could be moved over a bit, or just stay where they are, since the Dash Home button is not on the top panel anymore. Good thinking, Christian! ---Ryan On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM, Christian Rupp christ...@r-k-r.de wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp-- Davor Buday___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Yes since this is unofficial, some elements are less tight but users wanting the launcher at the bottom are not picky and many dont even give any thought to the things you pointed out. Still i must credit the individual that managed to make this different setup usable, which has been asked for many, despite his limited time and resources. Anyway IMHO the official design of unity is going to keep changing and some things are going to get dropped/added, specially since they want an interface for a wide range of devices. I for one think it will need to allow more *flexibility* if it wants to succeed in all these areas and for some many different type of users / devices. Date: Wed, 30 Nov 2011 10:05:42 -0700 Subject: RE: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom From: isan...@gmail.com To: estela...@hotmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net; sunil.r...@gmail.com I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. Hi, May I please request to make those several other points of Unity more clear. Please forgive my ignorance. I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel. I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors. I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again. So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to make a consistent design. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen without them. They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more consistent with the rest of Unity. Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's very pleasing. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. Hi, May I please request to make those several other points of Unity more clear. Please forgive my ignorance. I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel. I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors. I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again. So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to make a consistent design. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough. About the circular button I meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think their design being circular is not consistent with the rest of the design of the unity. Which has more squarish throughout. I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but the point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the windows control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for the windows menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top bar. I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized) window itself. I got the idea of the design. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen without them. They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more consistent with the rest of Unity. Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's very pleasing. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. Hi, May I please request to make those several other points of Unity more clear. Please forgive my ignorance. I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel. I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors. I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again. So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to make a consistent design. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
But I never mentioned non-maximized windows at all. My argument pertained to the dash. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 16:43, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry I think I didn't make myself clear enough. About the circular button I meat the circular shape of the buttons. I think their design being circular is not consistent with the rest of the design of the unity. Which has more squarish throughout. I agree with the global menu bar for maximized window is a great idea; but the point I raised was for non-maximized windows. Its nice to have the windows control available on the ( un-maximized) window it self; but for the windows menu one still have to traverse the mouse pointer to the top bar. I think it would be better to have windows menu also on the (un-maximized) window itself. I got the idea of the design. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 23:18, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. They're used to control the dash. You can't make the Dash full screen without them. They integrate the window controls into the panel for maximized windows because they integrate the menu bar and title bar into the top panel. Doing this saves nearly 50 pixels of vertical screen real estate, which is nice on large monitors, and huge on smaller screens like netbooks. Giving the Dash window controls simply makes it more consistent with the rest of Unity. Transparent panels blend in with the dash, and make it feel more like an extension of the panel and launcher, which it is. With the dash open and full screen, it feels like a single sheet draped over the screen since everything blends together seamlessly. Visually, it's very pleasing. On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 13:44, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 30, 2011 at 18:05, Ian Santopietro isan...@gmail.com wrote: I mean that the panel is now disconnected from the rest of Unity. With the panel at the bottom, there's no reason for the panel to turn transparent. There's no reason for the Dash's window controls to be in the panel. Having the launcher on the left side is important, because without that, several other points in unity simply don't make any sense. Hi, May I please request to make those several other points of Unity more clear. Please forgive my ignorance. I agree that there in no reason for the window controls to be in the panel. I personally think there is no reason for any window that is not maximized to have controls and menus on the top panel. It makes unnecessary mouse travels; though I can understand it might me useful for small form factors. I also never understood the philosophy behind making panels transparent when dash is called -- please forgive my ignorance once again. So far consistency is concerned I never felt that the circular windows controls consistent with any part of unity. Personally I don't know much of advantages of having panel in left apart from having more vertical space. But I see the challenges it presents to make a consistent design. On Nov 30, 2011 8:16 AM, Omar B. estela...@hotmail.com wrote: what do you mean it doesnt work? you just looked at the first screen and havent tried it. here are more screens: http://forum.ubuntu.ru/index.php?topic=171694.0 http://www.webupd8.org/2011/10/how-to-move-unity-launcher-to-bottom-of.html but its still in dev of course. From: isan...@gmail.com Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:04:03 -0700 To: sunil.r...@gmail.com CC: ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On 11/29/2011 02:54 PM, Chad M/ Germann wrote: On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Give this man a beer! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. Just .02 cents. Swapnil Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- bSwapnil Bhartiya/bbr Editor: Muktware.combr Skype: No Way...its non-free. Looking for alternativesbr Facebook: http://facebook.com/muktwarebr Twitter: http://twitter.com/muktware Google+ : https://plus.google.com/109027644713767623413/posts ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Em 29-11-2011 15:45, Swapnil Bhartiya escreveu: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil I've looked the code and seen that it's another plugin for compiz. This means two completly distinct code paths (the official unityshell and the unityshell-rotated). It would be very hard to maintain two distinct plugins in code base. If this were an option to the official plugin, the chances of being approved in the codebase would be greater. However, I don't know how complex it would be to convert this to an option. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.comwrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil good points. I'm having nothing but annoyances with the left-hand-side launcher. on the long run i'd prefer the dash to do everything for me, it would have a gesture-activated ALT-TAB-like mode, which would then replace the Launcher altogether. And then the launcher API with the progress bars and all the fancy dynamic indication stuff would start to make sense to me. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
What happens to the top panel with the launcher at the bottom? What about the Dash window controls? Without sticking the top panel on the left, I don't see how this design works. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 11:01, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Ian Santopietro Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html Eala Earendel enlga beorohtast Ofer middangeard monnum sended Pa gur yv y porthaur? Public GPG key (RSA): http://keyserver.ubuntu.com:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x412F52DB1BBF1234 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Let's sum the things up: It may break the current idea of unity, but not for every device we need this horizontal space. We give the user the choice. the plugin shows that unity is far more customizable than many think. In my opinion it also shows that Mint could use unity as well... but used GS to profit from all the unity haters and in the mean time I've customized Unity (although the whole internet says that this is impossible). -- this may be unproductive, but I dislike GS and love unity since my launcher is at the bottom ;) and all the great lenses of course And as the design team stated some time ago: We want a customizable UI but we lack of manpower. Yeah and if someone feels lucky he can also make it for the right side and fix the known issues Am 29.11.2011 19:01, schrieb Sunil Singh Rana: I think its a great idea. Design can be modified so that it remain consistent if some user chooses it to be on bottom. I don't really see much philosophy behind the current design; for example: I don't know why the top panel or left panel have to have the grey transparent visual effect when dash is called. I wouldn't mind if the dash shows itself in the center of the screen, without blocking the menus and controls of the previous in-focus application. In the later case, I would be able to drag and drop from the dash to any side of the screen, and the design would look more symmetric. Sunil On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 18:45, Swapnil Bhartiya swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com mailto:swapnil.bhart...@gmail.com wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html Should we include it in one of ubuntu next releases as a easy to activate option On second thoughts I believe, it's a good idea (gives some customisation to users). Once at the bottom it will be just like Apple Mac's dock. A good thing may be the option to place the launcher anywhere you want - left/right or bottom. swapnil ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net mailto:ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana https://launchpad.net/%7Eayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- ? Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Hello Friends, I hope all of you are having fun. :) Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner becomes a problem to give a consistent design. It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on completely different set of axiom. I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button. We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann cgerm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Ayatana] unity at the bottom
Many Apps also use the bottom and right edges too. Totem, for example. On Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM, Sunil Singh Rana sunil.r...@gmail.com wrote: Hello Friends, I hope all of you are having fun. :) Saving the vertical space could be a founding block, but a foundation should be consistent with all the foundations. we can't ignore the fact that most application uses the space close to left edge for navigation within itself; for example: back button of a browser. It is normal that launcher on the left will keep appearing as an uninvited guest and shall keep annoying. I wonder how many user actually notices the more vertical space available to them but I am sure many of them get annoyed with this unnecessary revelation of the launcher. Secondly, the top left corner becomes a problem to give a consistent design. It is difficult to take a completely new approach, take it as an axiom and, at the same time, fit it to the traditional approaches which are built on completely different set of axiom. I think -- I might be wrong -- most application assumes that the launcher would be at the bottom and this leaves the bottom side free from any button. We really need to focus on consistency and universality of the experience. I think these things has added plenty to the success of mac. On Tue, Nov 29, 2011 at 19:54, Chad M/ Germann cgerm...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 2011-11-29 at 18:31 +0100, Swapnil Bhartiya wrote: On 11/29/2011 05:55 PM, Christian Rupp wrote: I know it was discussed several times, but a plug-in finally got it working: http://www.webupd8.org/2011/11/install-ubuntu-unity-bottom-launcher.html That's not a very good design. The whole point of unity was to save vertical space and use horizontal space. This is quite opposite, leaving even lesser space. Instead a thinner bottom panel like LinuxMint 12 may be more 'practical' where users can see running apps and switch easily. that may be the case but it eliminates the strict It mist be this way fascism that unity currently represents. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- सुनील राणा Unselfishness is more paying only people have not the patience to practice it. 'I love you' is a wrong sentence as where, there exist 'I' and 'you' love can not. Love is an attribute of the absolute. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana Post to : ayatana@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
