Re: [backstage] BBC iPlayer Protest tommorow, Tuesday 14th, 10:30AM, White City
An aside My favourite BBC protest ever: Archers fans complaining about changing the time of the show. Marched up Regent Street with placards, stopped traffic, whilst chanting What do we want? the Archers! When do we want it? Now! What do we say? Please!' What do we want? Umberellas! When do we want them? Now! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] more data visualisation links
I think the point here is 'does the visualisation of the data adds meaning, or is just pretty to look at?'. Does your visualisation tell people more about the data set than the raw numbers? Is it 'legible'? Does it expose trends and meaning that would otherwise be hidden to all but the most numerate? Does it let someone reach sound conclusions faster, or navigate quicker, or become more accurate? Which is Tufte territory, not Nielsen. http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/ Not that there's anything wrong with pretty, but good datavis is about adding layers of meaning, as well as the layers of aesthetics. Its possible to remove the 'data' during the visualisation process and turn it in to a purely aesthetic entertainment experience, too. Some of the Jonathan Harris stuff does this - it's information as spectacle. Fun to look at, not 'wrong' per se, but a terrible way of actually turning data - information - knowledge. Useful or Playful? Is the question to ask. Some of these seem to be of dubious real use. Has anyone put any of them though Jakob Nielsen-style user testing? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Plain text or easy-to-parse news articles
I understand that the BBC tracks external links in order to provide stats to respond to the Graf report's requirement for the BBC to link externally more often, and become part of the web. That's done with something in the footer, which automagically rewrites external links to have go tracking on, iirc. ie, puts that funny http://bbc.co.uk/go/tag/anothertag/tag3/-/externalsite.com/blah/page.html url in. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] feeds with icons or pictures?
this request is not limited to news feeds, so where are the BBC feeds for images that they do have copyright for? Which feeds in particular, with images? You'll find that a lot of images used on the site are not BBC copyright, and therefore the BBC doesn't have the rights to redistribute them; hence the not being in RSS feeds. This isn't exclusive to news, which has deals with AP etc, it applies to any area of the site - movies is one example that springs to mind. Now, my understanding is that the BBC generally doesn't pursue minor infringement of BBC copyright (such as occasional reuse of BBC owned images on fan websites, for instance), as it has better things to be doing with its time. But that doesn't necessarily mean that the owners of the images that the BBC has licensed will feel the same way. Remember the weather feeds? It's those underlying rights that will cause problems. I've no idea why you appear so aggressive. Because I am/was exceptionally tired and very hungover. No one is suggesting that the images are not copyright. Quotes: the quality of images used as links is unlikely to present a rights issue. in fact fair use probably covers this in any case. No, but you suggest that because they're small/of poor quality there won't be a rights issue with using them, which is a nonsense. Bearing in mind I am not a lawyer: 'Fair Use' is only a legal concept in US law. iirc; they're 'Exceptions' in UK law, sometimes referred to in the copyright act as Fair Dealing, when talking about reviewing or reporting current affairs. Here's the law in question: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_1.htm Excerpt from http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts1988/Ukpga_19880048_en_4.htm - - Criticism, review and news reporting. 30.—(1) Fair dealing with a work for the purpose of criticism or review, of that or another work or of a performance of a work, does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement. (2) Fair dealing with a work (other than a photograph) for the purpose of reporting current events does not infringe any copyright in the work provided that (subject to subsection (3)) it is accompanied by a sufficient acknowledgement. (3) No acknowledgement is required in connection with the reporting of current events by means of a sound recording, film, broadcast or cable programme. - - So - you can reuse stuff with acknowledgement - sufficient is later defined as 'title of work plus name of author' - 30(2) appears to specifically rule out photographs from being exempt for Criticism, review or news reporting. - There may be arguments to be made around 'reporting of current events' - but RSS may not fall under the means listed in 30(3) - it would reference 'electronic means' if so. - To successfully argue for exception under that clause 30(3), you'd need to get a good working legal definition of 'reporting of current events'. evidently Yahoo is ahead on this issue as it already includes links to images in at least one news feed. Clearly in this case it seems unlikely they could claim that they did not intend the links to be used... There will be a sound reason that they provide links to images, not actual images; consider the difference between the image appearing on a page republishing the feed, and a link to the image in its original context appearing on the page republishing the feed. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] feeds with icons or pictures?
On 22/07/07, ~:'' ありがとうございました。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the quality of images used as links is unlikely to present a rights issue. It doesn't matter how small a picture is, it's still copyright in fact fair use probably covers this in any case. No, no it doesnt. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Links to video/audio for specific shows
If we're talking sematic applications, it might actually be good for an organisation like the BBC (and partner broadcasters to actually sit down and work out some standard ontologies to make it easy for heavy duty (RDF-heavy) applications talk nicely to each other. It may even have some applications in more lightweight formats as it would give developers some clues as to what particular parts of the data streams actually do. This does seem to be a big stumbling block with semantic applications: having ambiguity of terminology across applications. For example, consider a Tx time: a single ontology could specify whether this meant a first transmission or just the latest, whether a timezone is optional or required and so on. And applications could both parse and transform data knowing that this was the case, not guessing. Now, I might have this wrong - but you're suggesting that there should be a standard way of... describing data suggested by the BBC, so that all systems structure their data in the same way? I think the BBC has given up trying to do that even internally, and instead relies on being able to map piece of data A in system X on to piece of data B in systemY, and be reasonably sure they're the same thing. I really get the feeling that 95% accurate mappings between different ways of describing stuff is the best we can hope for. The suggestion of gentle harmonisation is preferable to 'having to do it X way always or else' in any big organisation. And, in fact, any system involving fallible meatbags doing data entry. This is coloured by having spent some time up to my elbows in SMEF and datamodelling at the BBC, and also by trying to persuade editorial teams to enter their HTML metadata vaguely consistently. http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/smef/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Links to video/audio for specific shows
On 16/07/07, Matthew Somerville [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: James Cridland wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/breakfast/pip/jrjen/ - good. http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio3/breakfast/archive/07/07/10/ - better. That's not better; URLs are supposed to be unique. Okay, Breakfast isn't a great example for my case, but even with that, if it's ever repeated, your URL might no longer be appropriate. I believe that is exactly why it is done as it is, given the vast majority of programmes might be repeated, can be part of schedules, different series, and so on. Yep, that second one should be an index of some description, and the 'archive' is redundant. Bear in mind that programmes get reedited as repeats, reversioned, sold abroad, are composed of clips from other programmes... Another example (from the same area): http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artist/x9qv/ - good http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artist/elton_john/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/artist/elton_john/ - better Okay, I can't follow that one - I guess if you had two artists of the same name? But then I'd go with changing one of their names. ;) Yep - might work for musicians, would work for actors (where equity makes them have individual names), really won't work for producers, crew, etc where you get massive duplication of names. James - an aside - you need to talk to the programme info people in FMT, and maybe the person in VMPS who is looking after the work done for drama/comedy TV on this kind of stuff. There's a good four year history on this one! /steps away from her old job, breathing slowly and evenly... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Links to video/audio for specific shows
/me cries Please can you cry your suggestion please? Not so much suggestion as frustration. A lot of good people, including myself and Mr Sizemore (and a certain Mr Tom Coates, who you may have heard of) have expended an awful lot of energy over the last few years trying to get somewhere with doing exactly that. Page Per Programme. It's been a sysiphean job for all involved. Chris' URLs are the most significant move towards a permanent URL for a programme instance, from which A/V material can hang. A programme instance is a surprisingly complicated beast, as I'm sure Chris will explain. Frinstance: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=todayservice_id=4224filename=20070712/20070712_2130_4224_15733_30 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/noise/?programme=hyperdrive http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/hyperdrive/ http://catalogue.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/series/HYPERDRIVE - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] Links to video/audio for specific shows
Frinstance: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/listings/programme.shtml?day=todayservice_id=4224filename=20070712/20070712_2130_4224_15733_30 http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctwo/noise/?programme=hyperdrive http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/hyperdrive/ http://catalogue.bbc.co.uk/catalogue/infax/series/HYPERDRIVE Forgot a couple, sorry http://www.radiotimes.com/shows/hyperdrive/ http://www.bbcshop.com/invt/bbcdvd2467 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Ofcom complaint raised
Mac mini - not so much heat LCD monitor / powerbrick for LCD monitor / powerbrick for macmini - quite a lot of heat. On 27/06/07, Ian Betteridge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't imagine that a Mac mini produces much heat... would something like that or the Zonbu be a solution? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] DVD Region 2
Here in the US, that is not the case. It is much harder to find such DVD players. Because they contravene the DMCA act? IANAL, and certainly not across american law, but I thought it expressly forbade the circumventing of content locks? Incidentally, I'm sure the only reason BBC content isn't widely distributed on DVD in the US is because no DVD releasing/licensing companies have bought the DVD distribution rights to the content in that territory. It's certainly not a mysterious conspiracy against TwiTs. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info
On 15/06/07, Andy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It takes people outside the media-land as you put it because the people inside are too ignorant of technology to understand it. If media people had known even the very basics of how a PC works then we would never have had DRM in the first place. snip Please be aware that your statements in this email can be read as a fairly comprehensive attempt at personally insulting most of the BBC and ex-BBC people on this list. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info
I just thought I'd say - I'm currently at the iSummit in dubrovnik. There's a lot of interesting conversation going on around these topics - if anyone's interested, info is here http://www.icommons.org/ I'm guessing that session recordings etc will be available later. Will post details if I find them! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] www.FreeTheBBC.info
Also Walter Benjamin's 'The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Work_of_Art_in_the_Age_of_Mechanical_Reproduction http://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm An analysis of art in the age of mechanical reproduction must do justice to these relationships, for they lead us to an all-important insight: for the first time in world history, mechanical reproduction emancipates the work of art from its parasitical dependence on ritual. To an ever greater degree the work of art reproduced becomes the work of art designed for reproducibility. From a photographic negative, for example, one can make any number of prints; to ask for the authentic print makes no sense. But the instant the criterion of authenticity ceases to be applicable to artistic production, the total function of art is reversed. Instead of being based on ritual, it begins to be based on another practice – politics. Written, incidentally, in 1936. Pwnd. Required reading: Free Culture: The Nature and Future of Creativity by Lawrence Lessig ISBN 0143034650 The Future of Ideas by Lawrence Lessig ISBN 0375726446 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Davy M - Mood News?
http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/ Davy - was trying to show someone mood news - has it gone? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] A Swarm Of Angels - CC-licensed film project - sign up for first 1,000 members be part of something unique nearing closure
I showed this to the BBC's Film Production arm a couple of months ago... :-) list know of a project to produce a CC-licensed film called A Swarm Of Angels. You can sign up either as a supporter (£5) or a full member (£25; - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
I _suspect_ they just fob people off and ignore complaints they dislike. Or maybe I was unlucky and the two people I communicated with didn't do their job properly? Audience comms and complaints are outsourced to Capita. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] data visualisation links
Ooh, nice! Ta. You might also be interested in http://infosthetics.com/ and this rather lovely one http://megamu.com/lastfm/ I tried fidg't http://www.fidgt.com/visualize the first one linked in your article, but couldn't get it to form any meaningful patterns. So - lots of data, but didn't really turn it in to information or knowledge. Pah. On 16/05/07, Simon Cobb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Despite its use of the word 'awesome', this article led me to some interesting stuff: http://mashable.com/2007/05/15/16-awesome-data-visualization-tools/ hope it does the same for you. Disclaimer: I forward it for the ideas/ concepts deployed by these sites, not for their accessibility - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] list test and Hack Day
Dear sweet evil Jesus on a pogo stick, don't start that up again! LOLS Ah, before my time and this is the first time I'd seen this writeup (or any writeup as considered). Refers the honourable gentlemen to archive URL below. Suggests he takes a look. You know, just so he understands what might be under the corner of the rug he's about to pick up. http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ Damn, was looking forward to seeing the response; especially from this kind of environment... 'I just thought I'd put the cat among the pigeons'? Heh, you little terror. :) Anyway - in other news, it's my last week at the BBC after 8.5 years (!). SO - I'm about to unsub at this address, and resub with my trusty gmail address. Once I'm on gmail, I have to give up my official BBC hat (you remember, the heather coloured tweed one with the feather) and turn in to DotKim, edgy cake-baker and home-maker who lives close to the edge and is a little bit whoah... A little bit whay... /me grins and waves at Ben. See you on the other side. It's been fun, and I'm proud of what you lot have achieved over the last couple of years. It might not seem much from the outside, but from the BBC point of view, it's teh awesomes. Good work fellas. Kim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] New Music Shorts - for the non-code creatives!
Hey Just in case there's anyone here who is a creative type, but not necessarily a web developer - there's a new thing kicking off on Film Network based around making your own music-inspired short film / video. I'm guessing, btw, that there's a fairly big crossover in creative disciplines between web and video production, these days. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/filmnetwork/newmusicshorts2007 Kim
RE: [backstage] BBC Archive trial
/me guesses, somehow, that the denizens of this list are somewhat demographically homogeneous. I got kicked off after about 60% when I said I was male. hhm. Oh well, perhaps 35-44 age bracket is already full. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Hack day in London
Well - I ruled myself out of the running for this as frankly, I'm great at drawing, cooking, sewing and making stuff (among other ladylike pursuits), but rubbish at coding and electrickery. Tom C left a comment suggesting I find a group of people to team up with. So if anyone wants a hack-team-mother-figure, let me know! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tim Cowlishaw Sent: 19 April 2007 13:22 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Hack day in London On 4/19/07, oliver wood [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've signed up, but know whos - am I l33t geek enough :) ? ha! my thoughts exactly are design-y CSS / HTML -type people welcome at these sort of events? If not, I'll have to finish working my way through 'Thinking in Java' by June... or just learn RoR. ;-) Cheers, Tim
RE: [backstage] xmltv.radiotimes.com
I've let the head of New Media at BBC Worldwide Magazines know about this, by the way. Kim However, as people probably realise the data isn't being updated anymore. Does anyone have a clue? Just had a boilerplate response from them - seems unlikely my email reached a human, let alone one who knows what xmltv means. I wonder how I make my xmltv grabber clear its 'RT cache/profile'? Come to think of it, I wonder if Joe Webuser who complained to RT would make head or tail of that directive? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] EMI 'in no DRM deal'
You'd pay $30 and up for an album on CD? Are you mad? I suppose you do get a convenient hard copy backup too... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Mr I Forrester Sent: Mon 02/04/2007 18:53 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] EMI 'in no DRM deal' Got to say I'd personally be happy paying up to $3 a song if it was DRM free and recorded at a high bit rate. Cheers Ian Jeremy Stone wrote: The DRM free songs are going to be more expensive I notice $1.29 a song as opposed to 99c. http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/04/02itunes.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Sent: 02 April 2007 14:27 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] EMI 'in no DRM deal' On 02/04/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just to keep Auntie on her toes, another company that is a TLA has decided to not bother with wasteful DRM: http://media.guardian.co.uk/newmedia/story/0,,2048195,00.html?gusrc=rs sfeed =4 Or the BBC article on the matter (which doesn't require registration): http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6516189.stm And I nearly forgot what TLA meant! How stupid of me. Not sure I trust Steve Jobs when he said: The right thing to do is to tear down walls that precluded interoperability by going DRM-free and that starts here today. (from the BBC article linked above) Was he not the guy who put up the walls to start with? Nice to see some record companies considering this kind of thing. I hope it will be available without iTunes. Apparently the files will be higher quality, doubt it will be lossless though. Pity really, but then it would cost them more to shift the files, bandwidth ain't free (unless you use P2P then it's someone else's bandwidth being used). Can't remember who's on EMI though. Hopefully this could be a snowball effect? Maybe EMI might be realizing that one all powerful content distributer isn't good for them either? Oh well enough of my idle speculation. Official press release: http://www.emigroup.com/Press/2007/press18.htm Andy -- First they ignore you then they laugh at you then they fight you then you win. - Mohandas Gandhi - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ winmail.dat
RE: [backstage] Browser Stats
For people who actually use a computer for what it is intended, Wow. That's quite some statement. I'd compose an elegant riposte if I didn't have to go off to IKEA post haste, because I've just noticed on their website that the chair and desk I want to set up my desktop PC is in, and I haven't played Warcraft in a month because the ergonomics on the sofa are all wrong. It means I'll be able to stream my music to the living room too, finally, and get round to editing that video of my mum making omlette and pop it up on youtube. :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Browser Stats
If you read Martin Belam (hello Martin!) on the methods he used to derive these figures, you'll note that he's extremely thorough in his data analysis. http://www.currybet.net/articles/user_agents/index.php I think you should read a little levity in to Jem's use of a grin after the Linux comment! Below are the stats, taken from our Sage Analyst system (http://www.sagemetrics.com/content/sageanalyst/overview.html - about the system, currently very slow!), from the 24th of march - the most recent 24h period available. We tend to run a bit late, as, IIRC, the daily server logs run to around 5gigabytes of data, which needs to be warehoused and processed. These figures are for all visits, to all pages of the whole of bbc.co.uk, not just the homepage. Automated requests (from bots, spiders etc) are stripped from our data; as far as I know we comply with JICWEBS and IFABC standards that require this. This is done using browser string filtering, against an industry standard set of strings supplied by IFABC. I provide these OS breakdowns both as % of Total Page Views, and % of users. Unique users are deduplicated, based on Cookie data - so you should caveat that with the usual cookie churn stuff*. However, as we're looking at percentage shares in a very large (6.5million+) user sample, I think it should be considered a good indicative slice. By Page Impression Operating Systems for Mar 24, 2007 for Entire Site from Entire World OS Type % of Total Page Views Windows 88.37 Macintosh 4.51 Liberate3.32 Nokia 1.09 SonyEricsson0.67 BlackBerry 0.43 Motorola0.36 Samsung 0.23 LG 0.17 NEC 0.08 Orange 0.04 Sagem 0.03 O2 0.02 TMobile 0.01 Sharp 0.01 Linux 0.01 DOS 0 Panasonic 0 BenQ0 Sprint 0 ZTE 0 Philips 0 Unix0 VK 0 Siemens 0 Toshiba 0 Sun 0 Sanyo 0 IRIX0 OSF10 Unidentified0.65 By User Operating Systems for Mar 24, 2007 for Entire Site from Entire World OS Type % of Total Users Windows 85.39 Macintosh 6.51 Nokia 2.26 Liberate1.66 SonyEricsson1.5 Motorola0.84 BlackBerry 0.76 Samsung 0.55 LG 0.18 Sagem 0.08 Orange 0.06 Sharp 0.04 O2 0.03 TMobile 0.03 Linux 0.02 Panasonic 0.02 NEC 0.02 BenQ0.01 DOS 0.01 Philips 0.01 ZTE 0 Sprint 0 Toshiba 0 VK 0 Unix0 Siemens 0 Sanyo 0 Sun 0 IRIX0 OSF10 - - - Breakdown of WINDOWS operating systems Operating Systems for Mar 24, 2007 for Entire Site from Entire World OS Type % of Total Page Views Windows XP 53.71 Windows XP SP2 31.96 Windows 20006.94 Windows NT 2.65 Windows Vista 2.25 Windows 98 1.23 Windows ME 0.72 Windows CE 0.35 Windows 32 0.13 Windows 95 0.06 Windows 64 0.01 Windows 31 0 Breakdown of MAC os'es Operating Systems for Mar 24, 2007 for Entire Site from Entire World OS Type % of Total Page Views Macintosh X 97.21 Macintosh PowerPC 2.53 Macintosh 0.26 Macintosh OS8 0 Breakdown of LINUX oses Operating Systems for Mar 24, 2007 for Entire Site from Entire World OS Type % of Total Page Views Linux 2443.17 Linux 2236.4 Linux 2020.43 *From our guidance notes, internally: Figures for unique users are based on the BBCUID. This is a unique identifier - known as a cookie - which is sent to a user's computer the first time they request a page from a BBC web site. Provided the cookie is accepted by the requesting computer then it will be saved to that computer's memory and will be returned to the web server with all subsequent requests. The returned cookies are included in the log records for each request and because each cookie is unique it is then possible to track the activity of each user across time. The total number of unique users is really a count of the number of unique BBCUID values seen in the logs. Note that although each cookie may appear many times in the log it must only be counted once. It is this de-duplication that makes unique user figures difficult to calculate. Some important points to note about unique users: * Users are not people. Cookies attach to browsers, to user logins or possibly to a combination of these. If 2 people share the same machine and the same user login they would share the same BBCUID and appear as the same person. Equally if the same person were to use two different machines then they would be counted as two users. * Some browsers do not accept cookies. When this happens a new cookie will be sent out for every request that browser makes. If we counted these cookies as users it would push the number of users up. So we don't count cookies we send out, only those that we get back. * There may be a number of situations where cookies, including the BBCUID, will get deleted from a computer. Some companies wipe
RE: [backstage] Browser Stats
Is it possible that these stats could be provided automatically, say on a daily basis so it can be used to track the use of browsers and platforms. No. Slightly longer answer - the stats system is problematic, and doesn't provide easy ways to route this kind of thing externally. It's under strain from the ammount of data it has to process already, and it's supported by a hugely overworked bloke called Danny. I could ask him, but he'd give me a look like I'd strangled his puppy. I don't like making Danny sad. I'll try and remember to send browser / OS updates once a month when I prepare (lovingly, by hand, at great personal pain and grief) our internal stats reports. Not really the kind of thing I can divert resource to automating, even to make my life easier, sorry :( - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Browser Stats
Hey, we just *did* publish it! :) I'll try and remember to send an update out every month or so, when I'm noodling through our stats system. Thank you very much to everyone for sharing this data - it really is very interesting. And I second the request for the BBC to publish this data (just as it is below), which would be a really good guide for what range of browsers the average person uses. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Browser Stats
Here's a chunk of stats. This is based on Page views. Anything below about 100k page views is registering as Zero percent, FYI, although each browser listed is showing *some* page impressions. 3 page views were in IE1.5! How sweet. I've stripped out the PI numbers, sorry, as I think that might be slightly more sensitive data, but it gives you a good idea of the breakdown of usage. For some reason, our stats software would give me a detailed breakdown of the IE versions, but not firefox, or safari. I think the little abacus gerbils may be tired. Browser Stats, whole of bbc.co.uk, February 2007 Browser Type % of Total PageViews IE 76.92 Mozilla-Firefox 11.59 Safari 2.87 Cable 1.5 Netscape0.95 Opera 0.37 Pocket_PC 0.28 KDDI-EZweb 0.28 AOL 0.05 Lynx0.02 Java0 WebReaper 0 WAP 0 Bush0 ITV 0 Emacs 0 J-Phone 0 Lotus 0 Mosaic 0 Lycos 0 I-Mode 0 Palm0 PocketPC0 Hot_Java0 OmniWeb 0 Unidentified5.17 Percentage breakdown within 76.92% IE category above Browser Type % of Total (IE ONLY) PageViews IE 6.0 62.78 IE 7.0 32.69 IE 5.5 3.31 IE 5.0 0.65 IE 4.0 0.38 IE 5.2 0.1 IE 5.1 0.07 IE 3.0 0.01 IE 6.1 0 IE 4.5 0 IE 2.0 0 IE 6.5 0 IE 5.8 0 IE 4.1 0 IE 2.1 0 IE 7.6 0 IE 5.6 0 IE 1.0 0 IE 6.3 0 IE 5.4 0 IE 6.9 0 IE 7.1 0 IE 6.2 0 IE 1.5 0 These figs are from a different system, so probably not totally commensurate with the above. browser % breakdown for apx august 06 to november 06 Known Browsers 93.04% IE6 71.39% Firefox 11.14% Safari 2.86% IE7 2.75% IE5.5 2.70% IE5 0.57% Opera 0.49% Mozilla 0.39% MSN 0.32% IE1234 0.25% NS7 0.17% PPCIE4 0.14% Opera 8 0.13% NS8 0.09% NS4 0.06% NS3 0.05% Text0.04% Opera 7 0.04% Other 0.03% NS120.01% OmniWeb 0% - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Browser Stats
Just for fun: the february data reworked to show the different flavours of IE at their appropriate % point. There's not much difference between Safari (all versions) and IE5.5 share. Again, I can't break out the different flavours of FF and Safari. Bear in mind this is % of PIs, not of users, so heavy consumption would skew these shares, and I'm willing to bet that FF users eat more internets than IE 6 / 7 users, on average. Browser % share of PIs IE 6.0 48.29 IE 7.0 25.15 Mozilla-Firefox 11.59 Unidentified5.17 Safari 2.87 IE 5.5 2.55 Cable 1.5 Netscape0.95 IE 5.0 0.50 Opera 0.37 IE 4.0 0.29 Pocket_PC 0.28 KDDI-EZweb 0.28 IE 5.2 0.08 IE 5.1 0.05 AOL 0.05 Lynx0.02 IE 3.0 0.01 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mobile tech fun, anyone?
So... an aquaintance is organising a pervasive gaming event on the south bank, and wants to run a mobile phone based game during the event. Cor, thanks for all the leads, that's extremely useful! - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] HD-DVD how DRM was defeated
Aha! Back in the day (about 4 years ago) BBC Web producers were measured on Page Impressions, rather than the now current Unique Users. On older sites you'll find a lot of areas like galleries, articles, and quizzes that split content in to lots of subpages, and encouraged repeated clicking. This is not a coincidence... (This was, however, 4 years ago, and isn't something that goes on any more.) That's a slightly cynical way of looking at paginating a story over several pages. A less cynical way can be explained on the subject of web usability. Usability experts will tell you that many users get rather daunted by very long pages full of text, so the way round it is to split the article over several pages. Which is the correct answer in this case, well I don't know. However at the BBC we've done the latter a few times. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Tube on Twitter
And doesn't work underground on the Tube? Despite its name, about 55% of the network is above ground. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground It would of course work in cities which allow mobile phone use on their underground railways (e.g. Stockholm). Coming in 2008 http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4373015.stm :) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] A couple of things including Arrington
Yes - you could charactarise the US way of working as a way of maximising ad revenue from a the diminishing halo of a brand, regardless of whether creatively the project is still vigorous. Or, in plainer language, flogging a dead horse. Not to say there aren't long runs of UK stuff. My Family, for example - a consistently excellent sitcom. Two Pints, hugely popular, long running, long series. But, you know, US tech bloggers, experts in UK comedy TV commissioning patterns, aren't they? Richard Hyett wrote: He raises perhaps inadvertantly the old point about why we haven't done many good 'Situation Comedies recently and when we do why they only run for a fairly limited series. You can't imagine Friends or Cheers or MASH closing after two series. But Two series and out is a very UK way of working. Life on Mars being a recent example. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backs tage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] £1.2 billion que stion (or RE: [backstage] BBC Bias??? Click and Torrent
(Yep - the BBC doesn't even own the Daleks...) The BBC owns *half* the daleks - specifically, the look and visual identity. The estate of Terry Nation owns their behaviour. So - if you want to use a picture of a dalek, you approach the BBC. If you want said dalek to move around shouting 'Exterminate!' you deal with the Nation estate. This is the case for most monsters and characters in classic Dr Who. The rights document detailing it all is a large beast. (Used to work on the Dr Who website.) K - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backs tage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage ] £1.2 billion question (or RE: [backstage ] BBC Bias??? C
My understanding is that - the writer writes the script, which is subject to the usual literary copyright rules - the contract writers are employed under is some kind of a license-to-perform-and-broadcast rather than a complete buyout of everything, to give them long term creative control and a possible long term revenue stream from their creations, and to avoid paying excessive ammounts of BBC license fee money for 'all rights' buyout. - effectively, the writer still owns the 'characters'- as they're considered to be 'a substantial part' of the work; copyright applies to parts of works as well as the whole thing. - the people who designed the daleks were employed by the bbc, and their contracts of employment have a specific clause assigning copyright in all work done for the bbc to the bbc, even though this is covered in copyright law anyway.* - the visual designs are covered by the artitic and designs provision, plus the instantiation from plans in copyright law But I am not a lawyer. You'd need to check with a rights professional to verify my understanding. *BBC contracts still contain this clause, irrc. This email is BBC copyright, as it's being written in the course of my work, using BBC tools. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 13 February 2007 11:20 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] RE: [backstage] £1.2 billion question (or RE: [backstage] BBC Bias??? Click and Torrents) On 13/02/07, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (Yep - the BBC doesn't even own the Daleks...) The BBC owns *half* the daleks - specifically, the look and visual identity. The estate of Terry Nation owns their behaviour. So - if you want to use a picture of a dalek, you approach the BBC. If you want said dalek to move around shouting 'Exterminate!' you deal with the Nation estate. Fascinating. How is it possible for 'the look' and 'the behaviour' to be restricted in this way? Coming from the world of software programs, where clean room reimplementation of visual identity and behaviour is neccessary to do anything - and why software idea patents are so harmful - I am totally in the dark about how this works. The format rights that were mentioned earlier seem to be a mirage, lots of handwaving about copyright and trademarks, but caselaw against the idea. I cannot see how copyright can be extended in this way. Please point me at URLs, or key search terms, or explain :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC Trust reaches Provisional Conclusions on BBC on-demand proposals
In order to help me, once they are written I'm going to publish the first chapter or two under a creative commons licence, and post it on my website. This will also have the side benefit of telling me if anyone else thinks I'm any good. If instead of publishing on my website, I could submit previous short stories to the BBC for a possibility of a reading on a BBC radio station (probably BBC 7, though I'd personally like BBC radio 4). [Kim Plowright] So, here's a dumb question, that I'm going to ask anyway because sometimes they get interesting answers. Why on earth do you need the BBC for that? What does the chance at getting a 'BBC' reading give you that, say, podcasting the chapters yourself doesn't? What does the BBC add in that scenario? Anything more than Legitimisation? (I'm thinking of Cory Doctorow's 'publish for free and podcast for free to drive sales' model here.) (Also, I think there's a nice little idea for a site for aspiring writers in this; and Open Source Audio Books Podcast project.)
RE: [backstage] BBC Trust reaches Provisional Conclusions on BBC on-demand proposals
I believe that you would see some big players come forward to take advantage of the service. At the same time it opens the power of the BBC to lesser known artists, independent studios and even totally independent artists (a bit like a book publisher who accepts unsolicited manuscripts). You then give all this work away, and launch the careers of a new generation of TV stars, who can then , in turn, charge fees for their services. A rare example of a virtuous circle. Great idea. They could call it Young Filmmaker Of The Year. Get Michael Rodd to judge the entries. Or maybe Film Network? That's got a nice ring to it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/filmnetwork/ And you could do something similar for music, and call it... I dunno, well, the bands would all be unsigned, wouldn't they? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] BBC Trust reaches Provisional Conclusions on BBC on-demand proposals
Oops, hit return with finger on control at same time http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onemusic/unsigned/ The url I was trying to paste in. The interesting thing with this kind of stuff is the editorial effort it takes to create a compelling service for the people who are just watching stuff in this world (the old wikipedia 1:10:100 ratio thing). Yes, you can hand that off to the wisdom of crowds, and let the best stuff float to the top; but if you have a genuine meritocracy with Joe Filmmaker's unsolicited three minute short film competing with the latest Life on Mars... Joe Filmmaker's stuff won't get seen, so he won't necessarily get the benefit of the exposure. Out of interest, did anyone follow the CopyBot brouhaha in Second Life? It's a really interesting case study of Open Source philosophy meeting regular people's creative usage on the internet... -Original Message- From: Kim Plowright Great idea. They could call it Young Filmmaker Of The Year. Get Michael Rodd to judge the entries. Or maybe Film Network? That's got a nice ring to it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/filmnetwork/ And you could do something similar for music, and call it... I dunno, well, the bands would all be unsigned, wouldn't they? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Movies Data
Hmn, well, the BFI is... Is it government funded? I'm not sure (checks site) Total income remained consistent at £30.9m. Grant-in-Aid income from the UK Film Council, at £14.5m, was unchanged from 2003, except that £1.33m of the 2005 grant was paid-over ahead of schedule in 2004 and is shown within deferred income. Commercial and sponsorship income increased from £11.6m to £13.1m. Other grants and lottery awards received in the year decreased from £2.1m to £1.6m, the difference largely being attributable to specific one-off grants from the late J Paul Getty, the New Opportunities Fund and TV Grants in 2002/03. In 2003/04 £0.7m was received to fund recording of TV programmes for the year, and the bfi received a £1.3m grant from the Heritage Lottery Fund for the continuation of the restoration project at the Archive. So - it's a charity half funded by the film council, which is (I think) funded by the DCMS. Might be a similar case to the OS? Perhaps it should be added to the Free our Data list :) http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/ftvdb/about.html They're actively asking for feedback about how to improve their database... (Don't be too mean to them, they're a nice bunch. I used to use their library back in the day.) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Kerry Sent: 31 January 2007 08:04 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Movies Data Hi Kim, On 30/01/07, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: BTW - stumbled across this last night http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/ftvdb/ Might be useful, or at least somewhere to poke to open up their data, too? (Did the Movies Data list get set up?) The BFI data looks a little harder to acquire as it's not public domain information and would need to donated to this group. UCLAP has been put on hold after someone from the PA contacted me and is currently looking to make their cinema listings available to us. Apparently he's in talks with Ian or someone else at backstage, although UCLAP can be restarted if the deal falls through. Cheers, Rob - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] platform-agnostic approach to the iPlayer
Read the press release, penguinista! :) This requires the BBC to develop an alternative DRM framework to enable users of other technology, for example, Apple and Linux, to access the on-demand... http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/news/press-releases/31-01-2007.html -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dave Crossland Sent: 31 January 2007 13:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] platform-agnostic approach to the iPlayer On 31/01/07, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The Trust has also asked the executive to adopt a platform-agnostic approach to the iPlayer. ... for example Apple Macs What about GNU+Linux users, who are reputedly a larger userbase than OS X users? :-) -- Regards, Dave - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Movies Data
BTW - stumbled across this last night http://www.bfi.org.uk/filmtvinfo/ftvdb/ Might be useful, or at least somewhere to poke to open up their data, too? (Did the Movies Data list get set up?) Thanks for the LibraryThing tipoff from last week, too. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Music, (meta)data, musicbrainz and the BBC
I've been lurking on the Musicbrainz dev list for years; iirc, there is some hidden category to make duets/collaborations like that resolve to two artists. It may well be worth finding their list archives to check we're not about to rediscuss all of the conversations! (Is Rob Mayhem and Chaos on here now? Hello love, if so!) k -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Wood Sent: 24 January 2007 23:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Music, (meta)data, musicbrainz and the BBC I bumped into a fully fledged spec for a music ontology the other day [http://pingthesemanticweb.com/ontology/mo/], which looks like it hit revision 1.0 in December. Seems it's sharing your position of wanting to work with the musicbrainz model, but also wanting to extend it to make it more applicable to other uses (namely linking up to other resources)... I've only recently started looking at the musicbrainz data, but the first thing I noticed (as seems common to other models) is the sometimes broken assumption that the artist name of a track should resolve to an artist entry. E.g. 'The Pogues Kirsty McCall' is an artist entry for 'Fairytale of New York'. Whereas It'd be way more useful to have two artist entries point to the track, and put the 'artist title' somewhere else. iTunes provides a compromise of making 'Artist' and 'Album artist' available to differentiate this, but this still doesn't provide the many to one relationship that would be more semantically correct, imho. Although my thoughts generally tend to verge towards the 'finding new music' angle, I'd most likely be up for points 7 8 :-) Cheers Dave PS First post n'all. And I should probably come out as a BBC employee using non-work email 'all my own/not bbc thoughts' disclaimer applies, etc. On 1/24/07, Michael Smethurst [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evening all BBC Audio and Music (ne Radio and Music) are about to embark on the long and winding road to a better online music offering To this end we've been working with http://mayhem-chaos.net/blog/ of http://musicbrainz.org/ to improve our music (meta)data So the questions to you are: 1. Have you worked with musicbrainz data? 2. If so what's missing from / wrong with the model (we've spotted works, movements, songs as opposed to tracks, releases conflated with products... maybe there's something you'd like to see in there). Responses from classical music geeks especially welcome! 3. Have you worked with the musicbrainz api? 4. If so what would you like to see there? 5. Have you ever worked with any bbc music data (unlikely cos to the best of my knowledge we've never given you any ~ sorry) 6. What music related data would you like to see from the bbc? 7. If you sat in a pub and sketched an ideal schema to describe music what would it look like? 8. Would you like to sit in a pub and sketch an ideal schema to describe music? We might run to a pint... As a first stage we're working with Robert to expand his schema to allow the modelling of classical music, live music, sessions etc without alienating his community. If there's enough interest it might be an excuse for a musicbrainz/backstage/bbc meetup later this year Sorry to be quite so open ended but if you've got an opinion on any of this (or anything in any way related) please scribble it here Cheers Michael - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Music, (meta)data, musicbrainz and the BBC
Now - an aside - Musicbrainz was set up because of Gracenote. If I understand correctly, the dataset that Gracenote CDDB is based on was orginally an 'open' database with information contributed by the public. It was sold, and changed its licensing structures away from the original open source model. FreeDB was then set up, but the data isn't controlled enough, and it's full of rubbish, dupes etc. Musicbrainz puts more control and structure around the data, and was initially a 'cleansing' effort around FreeDb data. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard P Edwards Sent: 26 January 2007 01:27 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Music, (meta)data, musicbrainz and the BBC James, The 128 character description could well be the ISRC code from the original label. If it is, then it contains a lot of those same details, and is unique across all manufactured CD's. I would also be surprised if you haven't come across these guys http://www.gracenote.com/prof_home.html They seem to have the Song ID database sown up. RichE On 25 Jan 2007, at 16:55, James Cridland wrote: Michael, Ignoring for a while the question of why the BBC is now looking at putting third-party music information services out of business, and being constructive: The major problem we've found working with any third-party music data is the issue of non-standard descriptions. Take a well-known song, which is in our system as... The Beatles: Norwegian Wood (This bird has flown), aka Beatles, The: Norwegian Wood, for example. Life gets harder with R.E.M.'s End of the world as we know it (and I feel fine), since R.E.M. is also known as REM and R. E. M. and... ooh, it's horrid. This needs fixing. Secondly, working with third-party systems is a little difficult for cleared-for-broadcast stuff. Oasis's Fsucking in the bushes won't look great on scrolling DLS, however we do it - and automated swear filters don't work cleverly enough. (I've added an extra letter in there for work-safe email). The way we've ended up working with these types of services is to have to pre-moderate everything before importing, which is a nuisance but the only way. Easy for us, given the comparatively small amount of music we play; harder for the Beeb, I'd guess. If it helps (which I doubt it will), if you go to http://nowplaying.virginradio.co.uk/vr.js - do it in Firefox so you can see it on-screen - you'll see the following information within a JavaScript line: Artist name ~ artist ID ~ Track name ~ track ID ~ Live on-air studio ~ Presenter name ~ Presenter image reference ~ short description of show (which makes no sense right now I notice!) ~ Short legacy web action description ~ Webcam true/false flag ~ DJ show link ~ Official artist website ~ tickets available true/false ~ 128 character description ~ some number which probably does something I appreciate this is nothing to do with what you're asking, but I wondered whether it was interesting to the conversation. And I'm always up for a pint. j -- http://james.cridland.net/ http://www.virginradio.co.uk/vip/profile/bigjim/
RE: [backstage] Movies Data
You are a very very nice man. x -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert Kerry Sent: 24 January 2007 15:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Movies Data Yeah - I know that you can't do anything fun unless we can give you more structured data. It's a pain working internally, too; Mark Kermode's podcast is done in Radio, Film 2007 is from scotland (iirc) and the interactive stuff for 5live and the podcast trial is all in a completely different department to the movies website, which until recently had different owners to the interactive telly service... It's not just you that can't make interesting stuff, it's us, too. I'm going to try and tie this data into UCLAP in the mean time, so that old movie data can be accessed as well as current movies and their cinema showtimes. I'll probably cross reference titles and release date etc using MD5 hashes. Future releases will also tie in IMDB, ASN and other useful references so that you can link into related products and information sites. Should have a site up for this project including the first XML Schema this weekend, I've taken Monday and Tuesday off work to spend time developing it as well. :o) Rob - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] democracyplayer
Maybe we should try and get more BBC managers here. How do you know there not watching this already? Seriously! Define Managers? Because, well, if Tom L (in charge of plan for future of bbc.co.uk), Jem (in charge of strategy group for user generated content), Matt L (in charge of innovation in new media), Andy C (Deputy Controller, Internet, last time I checked) and Tony A (in charge of iplayer) aren't good enough for ya, then... I'm not sure we're ever going to get the DG on the list... He's a bit busy with running the BBC... :) Watching, maybe. But are they participating? Not so far as I've seen. Four out of those five were at the Backstage Bash, iirc. Besides, you don't actually *want* more managers around here, trust me - it wouldn't help... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Daq Syndication Update
Haven't played it myself but Yahoo and O Reilly have had this out for a couple of years now. The Tech Buzz Game is a fantasy prediction market for high-tech products, concepts, and trends Always struck me as a very clever way for Yahoo! to get ahead of the curve market information on where to invest, personally... Wisdom of crowds, and all that... - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Video Encoder
FFMpeg? (I may have misunderstood what you're after tho) http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/ FFmpeg is a complete solution to record, convert and stream audio and video. It includes libavcodec, the leading audio/video codec library. FFmpeg is developed under Linux, but it can compiled under most operating systems, including Windows. The project is made of several components: * ffmpeg is a command line tool to convert one video file format to another. It also supports grabbing and encoding in real time from a TV card. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Davy Mitchell Sent: 14 December 2006 22:44 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Video Encoder Hi Folks, Sorry if this is OT. Working on a new prototype and this request might give a little away :-) !! Anyway I am looking for a windows video encoder (command line?) that can take static images and spit out something video webby and also be as lossless as possible. I've tried Google and not found anything practical. Free or very close to it preferably. Thanks, Davy -- Davy Mitchell Blog - http://www.latedecember.com/sites/personal/davy/ Mood News - BBC News Headlines Auto-Classified as Good, Bad or Neutral. http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Site statistics
FEES AND SERVICES . Subject to Section 15 herein, the Service is provided without charge to You for up to 5 million pageviews per month per account, http://www.google.com/analytics/tos.html I'll tell you this: our volume is a wee bit more than 5m PI/month. :) We do have a big internal stats package - SageAnalyst - but I don't think it has any API potential. It's a bit of a beast - the server logs are about 5 gb of data daily, or something k From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard Hyett Sent: 08 December 2006 13:23 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Site statistics They, the BBC could always use Google Analytics, only takes a few minutes to set up, its free and the results can be fairly detailed. :) I've said it before, but I'll say it again, how the site is used, in terms of text searches, navigation paths - through the site -most popular pages/videos, would be as interesting as the content of the site itself. Perhaps this is all available and I just haven't seen it. Richard On 08/12/06, Allan Jardine [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, Does anyone know if the BBC releases statistics such as browser version/type, screen resolution and so on? It would be very interesting to see what these are, as bbc.co.uk is probably a fairly unbiased source for this type of information, unlike w3schools.com, which is tech skewed. I know that Martin Belam has done a little work on this ( http://www.currybet.net/articles/user_agents/index.php ) but these results are now a year out of date. Many thanks, Allan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Second Life Event - London 13th Dec
I'll be there - anyone else? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Menti Sent: 01 December 2006 11:10 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Second Life Event - London 13th Dec On 12/1/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have a confirmed place, but can't make it. Mario would you like my space? Sure I can email them and ask them to switch in someone else. Thanks Ian, but I've got a confirmed place as well (the confirmation message is how I know it was full up now). S Oops gmail keyboard shortcuts somehow got the better of me.. sent the message before finished typing.. Just wanted to add that there may be other people on the list interested/going, if so, let's try and hook up afterwards maybe? Mario.
RE: [backstage] Second Life Event - London 13th Dec
Oh - and I've got the Nabaztag WiFi bunny wired up so that it tells me in RL whenever someone enters the office in SL (where there's a virtual bunny) Oh my god, that's fantastic! Demo! Demo on youtube immediately! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Burden Sent: 01 December 2006 12:05 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Second Life Event - London 13th Dec Just wanted to add that there may be other people on the list interested/going, if so, let's try and hook up afterwards maybe? Mario. Sure, I'm attending. Still haven't got round to posting my SL efforts here but a few of the things I've done so far are plotting Google Earth KML feeds on a globe in SL and using the Yahoo Weather RSS to create a dynamic UK weather map ( a bit like the NOAA one. I tried to use the BBC feeds but they didn't appear to have current data and the info appeared to be embedded in text rather than a tag ). Have also got our chatbots working in world so you can ask for BBC programme times etc. Main office is at Nari 48,170, 134 and a demo area at Nari 15,240,125. IM me in-world as Corro Moseley Oh - and I've got the Nabaztag WiFi bunny wired up so that it tells me in RL whenever someone enters the office in SL (where there's a virtual bunny) David -- David Burden Daden Limited t: +44 (0)121 247 3628 e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] w: www.daden.co.uk skype: daden5 sl: nari 48,170, 134 Daden Limited is an Information 2.0 Consultancy.
RE: [backstage] Psiphon Next Gen content
Heh, Second Life Speaking of which: the list might be interested in this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcone/listings/programme.shtml?day=tuesdayservice _id=4223FILENAME=20061205/20061205_2235_4223_3276_50 (Mn, how broken are our listing pages? Quick, someone remind me of one of the mashups?) Imagine, the arts strand, is doing a piece about teh intornetz. There are interviews with Berners Lee and Clay Shirky in there, and it's not a bad mainstream intro to web culture. (I haven't seen the final cut yet - feel free to point and laugh at me if I'm wrong) In it, also, Alan Yentob visits Second Life. And starts a blog. Kim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Clare OLeary Sent: 28 November 2006 20:30 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Psiphon Next Gen content Hi Yes, actually most kids my sons age - 20 ish don't watch tv at all. They might watch YouTube occassionally but mostly they are either watching DVD's on their wide screen laptops, or creating their own content with digi-cams, photoshop artwork, websites or generally out and about listening to live music and doing their thang... www.conduction.co.nz Sams site... i think the most interesting group to watch is the littlies - who are growing up with interactivity and who want to grab the mouse from when they are 3 or 4play games, change the channel etc... i'm writing a report at present on the nz perspective of 'tv meets you tube' and its pretty interesting out there - check out The Infinite Mind and an animated live interview by John Hockenberry with Kurt Vonnegut in a virtual studio with an interviewer and global audience... - parallel universe in cyberspace anyone? http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2140455044291565033 o.k. hooked now... clare www.evebaystudio.co.nz www.qteam.co.nz -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Matthew Cashmore Sent: Wednesday, 29 November 2006 4:21 a.m. To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Psiphon Actually that's a really good point - hadn't thought of it that way... We always assume that what the 'kids' to today will be the model in 10 maybe 20 years... But actually when you think about it that's not necessarily the case... Like you when I was a teenager I spent most of my time messing with my C64 and then later on with the NES and a few other things - very little if any time in front of the box. But now... 15 years later I spend a lot more time in front of the box, but... With a laptop on my lap emailing, making sure I turn off phone notifications in Twitter, and messing with stuff... Perhaps what we're seeing is the end of TV as a dominant platform... Families would sit around the wireless and listen intently, then as time moved on Radio became a platform you listened to whilst you did something else - passive if you like - TV has always been a sit back technology, do nothing else just watch - now that's changing... It doesn't mean it's dead. m -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Bowden Sent: 28 November 2006 15:02 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Psiphon now since there are only so many hours in the day, it's pretty certain that TV's dominance in terms of time (and it's *hugely dominant, even for kids) will be challenged - but yotube won't kill TV - it'll change it, just like TV changed radio, but radio listening is more popular than ever. What will be most interesting to me is what happens 20 years down the line. What happens to those kids who sit in front of their PCs and You Tube now. I wonder because I look at my own life. Fifteen to twenty years ago, I spent a lot of time in my room playing computer games on my Spectrum/Atari ST/386. I watched little television - and even less in the main room. Zoom forward to present day and I sit on my sofa with my widescreen TV quite a bit. I no longer have a joystick. The PC sits upstairs - if I'm on it, I'm checking emails, messing with stuff. Behaviours change - situations change. What is common to do at one point in your life, will not always be so. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit
RE: [backstage] Psiphon
I see your 'written by a Torrent site' and raise you a 'written by a broadcaster' http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/6168950.stm Some 43% of Britons who watch video from the internet or on a mobile device at least once a week said they watched less normal TV as a result. Sigh. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian Forrester Sent: 27 November 2006 18:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Psiphon Its certainly interesting. Something I was reading the other day http://torrentfreak.com/downloading-tv-shows-leads-to-more-tv-watching/ Earlier this month we estimated that almost a million viewers get their latest Lost episode through BitTorrent. TV broadcasters are now beginning to realize that making shows available for download is helping their business, instead of hurting it. CBS's chief research officer David Poltrack said that online distribution services like YouTube and BitTorrent are friends, not foes. Poltrack is not too keen on the paid distribution model iTunes offers right now. He thinks that TV shows should be available for free via ad-supported models. In a panel discussion at the Future of Television Forum Poltrack said that if [consumers] are going to steal it, give it to them anyway. But also make it easier to access and present it better than YouTube or BitTorrent or anywhere else. :) Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard P Edwards Sent: 27 November 2006 18:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Psiphon I believe that the music market place has already answered your question Ian. The only successful new model allows the customer to use any authorised device to play the downloaded music on. therefore quelling a few of the customers complaints, but still not going far enough. If I can already watch content on my computer, then the BBC has to acknowledge that the same computer can travel with me, so using Geo IP becomes a censorship which I will either find a way around, or go and view someone else's content. As is mentioned on today's News site, perhaps the real debate should therefore be the other way around, how does the BBC keep its viewers. and why is there so much fear about losing content, when as soon as it appears on TV it is effectively sold anyway? I agree with Ricky Gervais, I don't think that a program loses its value just because someone can download it. In fact, if it is good enough then it finds a larger market place. I understand the law completely, but as has also been affected today, perhaps the thinking of the suits is slightly out of touch where copyright is concerned. :-) I would love to see the BBC reverse its thinking and engage us, as the public, in allowing much more access, even if they have to pressure government to change the law. There is nothing to fear :-) On 27 Nov 2006, at 16:01, Ian Forrester wrote: Alright alright, I walked into the last two comments :) But its certainly an interesting debate, what would (we) the BBC do if Geo IP was so easily passed. And what would you do if it was so easy? I thought this might be amusing for some. http://blogs.opml.org/tommorris/ 2006/11/27#obviousTruthsForIdiotsInSuits Specially this line - Television isn't dead yet. But, for me, it's lying on the ground wounded. Ian Forrester || backstage.bbc.co.uk || x83965 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jakob Fix Sent: 27 November 2006 14:54 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Psiphon On 11/27/06, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What happens when setting up a proxy service is as easy as running an application and using one is as easy as typing in a url? isn't that what Torpark is all about? http://www.torrify.com/ -- Jakob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit
RE: [backstage] BBC Backstage Widget Bash - Tonight 6:30pm - Digress City
Hmn, You're all very quiet. Hung over? Kim - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] SecondLife mashups are where its at?
Oh, dear, that makes me sound like a tit, that blogpost :-) I think there's some *really* interesting stuff going on in SL at the moment (Mario, Kosso, hello!) - but there's a lot of hype around the platform, too; a lot of big companies are going a bit mental about it. I heard someone say the other day that it's because they missed out on the web, web2.0, podcasting, etc, they're all piling in on this microtrend... What makes it interesting, though, is the mashup stuff; being able to pipe stuff in and out of these spaces easily lets the web act as a kind of connective tissue between them; or a medium (in the petri dish sense). Eg I wonder if someone could create a Warcraft UI addon that showed presence data for Second Life - so you could keep your eye on two existences at once, and show your 'virtual location' in your IM client, for instance? And what are the implications for privacy there? If you're interested in this area, it might be worth having a look at some of the other possible platforms - metaverse http://metaverse.sourceforge.net/ Multiverse http://www.multiverse.net/ Or Croquet http://www.opencroquet.org/ Iamnotacoder, these may be rubbish. I also heartily recommend the #9 podcast from here: the Austin Game Conference round table talk - it's a good debate about where these spaces might go in the long run. http://feeds.feedburner.com/metaversesessions *well, I am a tit occasionally, but in quite a nice affable way. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mr I Forrester Sent: 31 October 2006 15:37 To: BBC Backstage Subject: [backstage] SecondLife mashups are where its at? According to Kim, and I can hardly disagree after seeing the 3D Weather data visualisation [2] I also found this nice post from Knossos [3] about LL (linden scripting language) and how Second Life will move over to MONO (open .net) soon. There still seems to be a reason to learning LSL because you can combine the two now. Anyway, there's some videos linked to Kosso's entry and there certainly worth watching if your into Second Life scripting. Cheers Ian Forrester [1] - http://mildlydiverting.blogspot.com/2006/10/3d-weather-data-visualizatio n-in.html [2] - http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2006/10/28/3d-weather-data-visualizatio n-in-second-life/ [3] - http://kosso.wordpress.com/2006/10/26/building-reality/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts
Backstage: You're not on the list, you're not coming in :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jakob Fix Sent: Tue 31/10/2006 15:21 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: Take Scag: [backstage] Witty slogan and design for Backstage T-shirts On 10/31/06, James Boardwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: playing on the whole theatrical metaphor: or how about a FULL ACCESS backstage pass/t-shirt? -- cheers, Jakob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ winmail.dat
RE: [backstage] A sekrit from Virgin Radio
Id be interested to know the technical set-up behind Virgin and the BBCs last.fm pages though (i.e. how the track data gets from the playout system to the last.fm page) Id gather its not as simple ashooking up the last.fm player to whatever you use for your playout I use the audioscrobbler plugin for Winamp but Id gather your set-up(s) are somewhat more complex than mine! We have asuper lady called Elsie who types out in tripliacte the names of all of the beat combos as they play out from '78. The Pink copy is filed with the BH librarians, who stamp the counterfoil and authorise the T109-D form procedure; the yellow copy is sent to theMusic (modern, repetitive)Playout Reporting Unit (third class) for record keeping; the blue copy isthen sent via registered post to the BBC's ENIAC installation in Surrey, from where it is set out to 'the Last.fm internet reception station'via a series of tubes. Look - there's a picture of her at the bottom of this page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/heritage/story/ww2/lifebbc.shtml
RE: [backstage] Newssniffer - BBC News site monitoring
Please excuse my interruption, but I would in all cases expect the original author to be accountable. You're absolutely right; the original author/publisher would of course be accountable, but, IIRC, under UK libel law is is acceptable for the plaintiff to *also* sue any additional publications who repeated or reported the original libel. Sorry - my one liner probably wasn't clear enough there; no agenda, just adding auseful bit of information. I'm not a lawyer - verify my often faulty memory before taking action based on my advice, etc. I think Jem covered your other points pretty well; nothing to add there except do remember that the BBC folk on the list are generally good, sympatheticfolk who would - and do - fight very hard to defend projects like this. On a personal note; I understand the phew! after the legalese. A reasonably famous actor once made me cry by giving me a very soundtelling me off about the same wording in a blood-chit agreement... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard P EdwardsSent: 25 October 2006 18:24To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Newssniffer - BBC News site monitoring Please excuse my interruption, but I would in all cases expect the original author to be accountable. For the complete framework of the public's and BBC's legal responsibility, it is worth reading the BBC's disclaimer and House Rules. "You also agree to indemnify the BBC against all legal fees, damages and other expenses that may be incurred by the BBC as a result of your breach of the above warranty" I would suggest that Auntie has herself clearly protected, yet again. but the question of before and after the fact censorship is still very pertinent. I expect that someone is working hard as I type to close the path of information, certainly very difficult in this case. Such a tiny idea that has huge implications, hopefully to the benefit of us all. Humorously, (sic), it is the re-publication that would appear, under the BBC's "perpetual, royalty-free, non-exclusive, sublicenseable right and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform, play, and exercise all copyright and publicity rights with respect to any such work worldwide and/or incorporate it in other works in any media now known or later developed for the full term of any rights that may exist in such content etc etc etc" clause phew!!!, to be the reason that the site could receive a cease and desist letter for using this information, sadly. Regards On 25 Oct 2006, at 11:50, Kim Plowright wrote: Any subsequent republication of the libel is also actionable, though... IANAL! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Phil WinstanleySent: 25 October 2006 09:03To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Newssniffer - BBC News site monitoring I believe its the publisher of content in Libel cases. Phil. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Martin BelamSent: 24 October 2006 15:44To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Newssniffer - BBC News site monitoring As someone who used to work closely with the BBC community site teams my first thought was what happens when the BBC pulls posts for legal reasons, and this site reproducesthem - who ends up potentially legally liable - the site re-hosting the content, the BBC, or the original poster, even though they didn't give explicitpermission for newssniffer to re-use the content. *shuffles off to consult lawyer* all the best, martin http://www.currybet.net On 24/10/06, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought this might be of interest to the backstage crew: http://newssniffer.newworldodour.co.uk/articles/list_by_revision http://newssniffer.newworldodour.co.uk/bbc/threads/mostcensored J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer -CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 67938 Mobile: 07976500729 "Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been he
RE: [backstage] Newssniffer - BBC News site monitoring
Any subsequent republication of the libel is also actionable, though... IANAL! From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Phil WinstanleySent: 25 October 2006 09:03To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Newssniffer - BBC News site monitoring I believe its the publisher of content in Libel cases. Phil. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin BelamSent: 24 October 2006 15:44To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Newssniffer - BBC News site monitoring As someone who used to work closely with the BBC community site teams my first thought was what happens when the BBC pulls posts for legal reasons, and this site reproducesthem - who ends up potentially legally liable - the site re-hosting the content, the BBC, or the original poster, even though they didn't give explicitpermission for newssniffer to re-use the content. *shuffles off to consult lawyer* all the best, martin http://www.currybet.net On 24/10/06, Jason Cartwright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thought this might be of interest to the backstage crew: http://newssniffer.newworldodour.co.uk/articles/list_by_revision http://newssniffer.newworldodour.co.uk/bbc/threads/mostcensored J Jason Cartwright Client Side Developer -CBBC Interactive [EMAIL PROTECTED] Desk: (0208 57) 67938 Mobile: 07976500729 "Recreate the world in your own image and make it better for your having been here" - Ray Bradbury --receivedto:andyb.comMessageID:o8b854b5cd7704bc7af26fd2de1e9ab0a.proSenderID:[EMAIL PROTECTED]MsgSize:4k Thisemailandanyfilestransmittedwithitareconfidentialandintendedsolelyfortheuseoftheindividualorentitytowhomtheyareaddressed.Ifyouhavereceivedthisemailinerrorpleasenotifytheoriginatorofthemessage.Thisfooteralsoconfirmsthatthisemailmessagehasbeenscannedforthepresenceofcomputerviruses,thoughitisnotguaranteedvirusfree.OriginalRecipient:backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukOriginalSender:[EMAIL PROTECTED]OriginalSendDate:25/10/2006-09:03:26
RE: [backstage] BBC news ticker in Second Life
Mario Have you seen this? Might be up your street... http://www.3pointd.com/20061023/sustaining-the-metaverse-a-3pointd-think-tank/ (just saw your technorati pillars, nice!) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario MentiSent: 06 October 2006 19:03To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] BBC news ticker in Second Life On 10/6/06, Tom Loosemore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: there's a few news video podcasts in mp4 here (they play on QT7)http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/4977678.stmnone really suited to news SL though (we'd need a News 24 or BBC World QT unicast stream), though the thought of David Dimbleby hisQuestion Time guests warbling on within SL does have a warped appeal Yeah, I tried the newsnight one myself, and (once it had done downloading) was watching Kirstie Wark on a big screen in SL earlier today :-) Mario.
RE: [backstage] Flickr releases Geotagging for photos
Yes - It's surprisingly patchy, the different coverages isn't it? I just tried to place some photos I took in West Africa... Has anyone ever tried plotting the various map services on top of each other, to augment the lowfi sectors of each? Mind you, I'm sure it would be completely against the TOS. (Its making Firefox a bit unhappy too - 99,852K of memory in use at the mo... Also, it seems to place the points 20 pixels to the left of where I want them. Gah!) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Chadderton Sent: 29 August 2006 12:41 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Flickr releases Geotagging for photos On 29 Aug 2006, at 10:54, Ian Forrester wrote: I have played with it and got to say its pretty neat! but the Yahoo maps data for England is not as good as Google. Either way, I've added some points to London already Some data is much better. I found it impossible to plan my trip to a major capital city on Google Earth from the green blob claiming to be Edinburgh, but adding geotagging on Flickr last night using the Yahoo! data, I could almost read the signs on the buildings. David - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Feeds APIs page down again - fixed
Done! kim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew McParland Sent: 04 August 2006 15:48 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Feeds APIs page down again - fixed On Fri, Aug 04, 2006 at 01:17:54PM +0100, Mario Menti wrote: Since we're talking about that page, I think a link to http://www0.rdthdo.bbc.co.uk/services/api/ would be in order? Cheers, Mario. Yes. And when someone with access gets a chance, it will :-) Andrew - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them.
Kim's right, these feeds should be used outside the BBC's site and from that perspective, Freudian slip, Ben? :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of dotBen (aka Ben Metcalfe) Sent: 28 July 2006 10:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them. Hello all, Kim's right, these feeds should be used outside the BBC's site and from that perspective, in the morning after the night before, I realise I probably shouldn't have posted my previous email. I would point out that all I did was pull the urls out of the javascript on the BBC News Website - which no doubt someone else would have done instead if I hadn't... ...but I did indeed know that the data wasn't licensed (which is the different to someone else doing it ) and so in the cold light of day I realise it was a little irresponsible for me to encourage you to put the data on your site. Please be patient whilst the BBC continues to work out an 'official' weather offering with the Met Office. Cheers Ben On 27/07/06, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah! That was quick work, and fab, thanks, but Next time eh? Sorry! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Phil Winstanley Sent: Thu 27/07/2006 20:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them. Ah - ignore my lat mail then. J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Plowright Sent: 27 July 2006 20:18 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them. Hello Everyone, Jem is not around today, so I've been asked to put my official BBC hat on [1] and let you all know the situation with the weather feeds referenced below. Here's the short version The weather feeds detailed below are *NOT COVERED* by the BBC backstage terms. Please, *DO NOT* use those feeds. I'm *REALLY SORRY*, I know you're all frustrated by the saga of getting the weather feeds to you. So, here's a slightly longer version. As you all know, the data in the weather feeds isn't actually owned by the BBC - the BBC has an agreement with the Met Office to use the data. The good people in BBC Weather have been negotiating with the Met to get this data publically available, but that's been a lengthy process. Obviously, we have to find an arrangement that keeps both the Met and the BBC, and you lot on the list happy. Eventually, it was agreed in principal that the data could be released to backstage under a developer key system, so the Met would know who was using the data and how. As the government expects them to expolit their assets commercially to relieve the burden on the tax payer, this seems reasonable; they can tell if someone starts a commercial service using the non-commercial data and make them stop. The developer key system was a slight problem, though - there have been real problems getting the system set up on the BBC infrastructure. I'm not sure what the problems have been, I'm sorry, but I do know that the BBC boxen are somewhat eccentric and difficult to work with, and probably wanted the code in BBC 32K BASIC on punch cards or something. So that's where we are. The availability of the data without that key system has the potential to really sour the BBC's relationship with the Met Office. It may well make negotiating further data releases really hard, both internally and with other BBC partners; and might jeopardise the whole backstage project. It's bigger than 'just backstage', too - it's all of the BBC's weather service that could be affected. So - and I'm sorry to have to ask you this - please could you refrain from using the feeds below. Kass, the lovely head developer in weather, is trying to get a free-to-air 2 day with observations RSS feed up and running, but she's trying to do that on top of her regular stiff workload (in the same way that I keep an eye on the list above my regular job, just out of love for the project). Once the new backstage producer starts, then hopefully they'll pick up the work on the developer key. I'll keep prodding people around the organisation to keep things moving; as you know, we're restructuring inside the BBC at the moment, so things are rather up in the air. In the meantime, I really appreciate your patience and forebearance in the face of lovely JSON feeds... I know this makes us look like a bunch of numpties, and I'm personally really sorry. Sorry if this sounds a bit formal, I just had to rewrite it after my work webmail ate the previous draft! Kim [1] Heather coloured tweed, with a trout fishing fly in the hatband, for those of you who remember
[backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them.
Title: Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them. Hello Everyone, Jem is not around today, so I've been asked to put my official BBC hat on [1] and let you all know the situation with the weather feeds referenced below. Here's the short version The weather feeds detailed below are *NOT COVERED* by the BBC backstage terms. Please, *DO NOT* use those feeds. I'm *REALLY SORRY*, I know you're all frustrated by the saga of getting the weather feeds to you. So, here's a slightly longer version. As you all know, the data in the weather feeds isn't actually owned by the BBC - the BBC has an agreement with the Met Office to use the data. The good people in BBC Weather have been negotiating with the Met to get this data publically available, but that's been a lengthy process. Obviously, we have to find an arrangement that keeps both the Met and the BBC, and you lot on the list happy. Eventually, it was agreed in principal that the data could be released to backstage under a developer key system, so the Met would know who was using the data and how. As the government expects them to expolit their assets commercially to relieve the burden on the tax payer, this seems reasonable; they can tell if someone starts a commercial service using the non-commercial data and make them stop. The developer key system was a slight problem, though - there have been real problems getting the system set up on the BBC infrastructure. I'm not sure what the problems have been, I'm sorry, but I do know that the BBC boxen are somewhat eccentric and difficult to work with, and probably wanted the code in BBC 32K BASIC on punch cards or something. So that's where we are. The availability of the data without that key system has the potential to really sour the BBC's relationship with the Met Office. It may well make negotiating further data releases really hard, both internally and with other BBC partners; and might jeopardise the whole backstage project. It's bigger than 'just backstage', too - it's all of the BBC's weather service that could be affected. So - and I'm sorry to have to ask you this - please could you refrain from using the feeds below. Kass, the lovely head developer in weather, is trying to get a free-to-air 2 day with observations RSS feed up and running, but she's trying to do that on top of her regular stiff workload (in the same way that I keep an eye on the list above my regular job, just out of love for the project). Once the new backstage producer starts, then hopefully they'll pick up the work on the developer key. I'll keep prodding people around the organisation to keep things moving; as you know, we're restructuring inside the BBC at the moment, so things are rather up in the air. In the meantime, I really appreciate your patience and forebearance in the face of lovely JSON feeds... I know this makes us look like a bunch of numpties, and I'm personally really sorry. Sorry if this sounds a bit formal, I just had to rewrite it after my work webmail ate the previous draft! Kim [1] Heather coloured tweed, with a trout fishing fly in the hatband, for those of you who remember. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of dotBen (aka Ben Metcalfe) Sent: Thu 27/07/2006 17:44 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Finally, that bloody BBC Weather feed - here it is... You'll all be pleased to hear that (probably unintentionally) the BBC has launched complete RSS and JSON support for it's BBC Weather service (data provided by the Met Office). To get straight to the detail, the urls you need are as follows: http://newsrss.bbc.co.uk/feeds/customisation/v1/weather/4581/json.js http://newsrss.bbc.co.uk/rss/weather/4581.xml (Where 4581 is the BBC Weather index for London. You can find out any other code you need by searching for your city, clicking the desired result, and identifying the id in the resulting url.) The important point to note is that the JSON feed is technically referenced to on the BBC site - if you dig within the _javascript_ etc - but not explicitly referenced for third-party use. The RSS feed, despite clearly being on the public server, is not currently referenced from anywhere on the BBC (as far as I can see) and has been derived from existing logic. How this was discovered: The BBC News website now sports a customisable pane that is powered by JSON. A quick scan of the HTTP Headers shows that the London feed (for example) is powered by JSON feed at: http://newsrss.bbc.co.uk/feeds/customisation/v1/weather/4581/json.js and the London news JSON feed: http://newsrss.bbc.co.uk/feeds/customisation/v1/newsonline_uk_edition/england/london/json.js Now I recognised that: http://newsrss.bbc.co.uk/feeds/customisation/v1/newsonline_uk_edition/england/london/json.js had some similarities to the original RSS url for the same feed: http://newsrss.bbc.co.uk/rss/newsonline_uk_edition/england/london/rss.xml So I used
RE: [backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them.
Yeah! That was quick work, and fab, thanks, but Next time eh? Sorry! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Phil Winstanley Sent: Thu 27/07/2006 20:47 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them. Ah - ignore my lat mail then. J From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Plowright Sent: 27 July 2006 20:18 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Weather Feeds: these are NOT covered under the backstage terms, please do NOT use them. Hello Everyone, Jem is not around today, so I've been asked to put my official BBC hat on [1] and let you all know the situation with the weather feeds referenced below. Here's the short version The weather feeds detailed below are *NOT COVERED* by the BBC backstage terms. Please, *DO NOT* use those feeds. I'm *REALLY SORRY*, I know you're all frustrated by the saga of getting the weather feeds to you. So, here's a slightly longer version. As you all know, the data in the weather feeds isn't actually owned by the BBC - the BBC has an agreement with the Met Office to use the data. The good people in BBC Weather have been negotiating with the Met to get this data publically available, but that's been a lengthy process. Obviously, we have to find an arrangement that keeps both the Met and the BBC, and you lot on the list happy. Eventually, it was agreed in principal that the data could be released to backstage under a developer key system, so the Met would know who was using the data and how. As the government expects them to expolit their assets commercially to relieve the burden on the tax payer, this seems reasonable; they can tell if someone starts a commercial service using the non-commercial data and make them stop. The developer key system was a slight problem, though - there have been real problems getting the system set up on the BBC infrastructure. I'm not sure what the problems have been, I'm sorry, but I do know that the BBC boxen are somewhat eccentric and difficult to work with, and probably wanted the code in BBC 32K BASIC on punch cards or something. So that's where we are. The availability of the data without that key system has the potential to really sour the BBC's relationship with the Met Office. It may well make negotiating further data releases really hard, both internally and with other BBC partners; and might jeopardise the whole backstage project. It's bigger than 'just backstage', too - it's all of the BBC's weather service that could be affected. So - and I'm sorry to have to ask you this - please could you refrain from using the feeds below. Kass, the lovely head developer in weather, is trying to get a free-to-air 2 day with observations RSS feed up and running, but she's trying to do that on top of her regular stiff workload (in the same way that I keep an eye on the list above my regular job, just out of love for the project). Once the new backstage producer starts, then hopefully they'll pick up the work on the developer key. I'll keep prodding people around the organisation to keep things moving; as you know, we're restructuring inside the BBC at the moment, so things are rather up in the air. In the meantime, I really appreciate your patience and forebearance in the face of lovely JSON feeds... I know this makes us look like a bunch of numpties, and I'm personally really sorry. Sorry if this sounds a bit formal, I just had to rewrite it after my work webmail ate the previous draft! Kim [1] Heather coloured tweed, with a trout fishing fly in the hatband, for those of you who remember. This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the originator of the message. This footer also confirms that this email message has been scanned for the presence of computer viruses, though it is not guaranteed virus free. Original Recipient: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Original Sender : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Original Send Date: 27/07/2006 - 20:47:50 winmail.dat
RE: [backstage] Web2.0 - tennets, rules, development philosophy... I'd love you to give us some feedback
OK - so, the summary API/Ajax thoughts... APIs - are good. We love APIs. - They give as much benefit within an organisation - (linking up internal systems) as they do when publically exposed (mashups) - There are different flavours of API, and the right API should be used for the job; always use the appropriate technology, (whilst ensuring you can migrate to a newer more appropriate technology further down the line??) - APIs are the foundations of the shift to a 'service layer based world' (anyone want to expand on that concept? It's a nice one...) AJAX - Is currently the best way to build responsive, in-browser application like experiences for performing actions on data* - AJAX is more than just a scripting language; it too can be the 'appropriate technology' for an API - AJAX should be used when a site needs a responsive interface whilst being mindful of graceful experience decay - It's not magic web pixie dust - you need to design your interface for your intended audience. Our current design patterns serve a niche. - Is - generally speaking - operating at a layer above the API, providing the tools for the user to manipulate the data the API offers up (this one will get me shouted at, I think?) HTML - At the root of everything, standards compliant, with presentation separate from content. *I'm thinking, something along the lines of Ajax for what ajax does well... Namely thing X, and flash for what flash does well, namely thing Y. For values of Y approaching 'nice animation, games, interactive entertainment', and X approaching 'operations on XML, dynamic sites and databasey stuff...' But I kind of hit my technical limit in describing X. Anyone? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Luke Dicken Sent: 17 July 2006 10:57 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Web2.0 - tennets, rules, development philosophy... I'd love you to give us some feedback Daniel Morris wrote: Firstly, the list seems fairly comprehensive and easy to read. Secondly, apologies if there are obvious answers to this email, i'm new... How come REST API gets mentioned, but ajax doesn't? I know ajax is an overused buzzword at the moment, but it is unavoidably crucial to the web2.0 push. Specifically in closing the gap with desktop applications in terms of application richness / responsiveness. Also, although APIs and services are mentioned, perhaps this could be accented more? The move to a service-layer based world can be a substancial paradigm shift. -dan AJAX is a language/technology not an API - HTML doesn't get mentioned either, its still a safe bet that it will be of relevance to web2.0. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Web API down?
OK, by the magic of telnet and white text on a black screen, I've found out that the people that need to know about this do, and are looking in to it. Can't give you anything approaching a time it might work again, sorry. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David BurdenSent: 17 July 2006 14:28To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Web API down? I cant see it either. David Burden www.chatbots.co.uk -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim PlowrightSent: 17 July 2006 14:08To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] Web API down? I'm seeing it internally - can anyone confirm it's dead outside the firewall? From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario MentiSent: 17 July 2006 14:00To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] Web API down? The server hosting the BBC Web API (http://www0.rdthdo.bbc.co.uk/services/api/index.html) seems to be unreachable.. at least from where I am. Anyone else can get to it, or is it currently down? Cheers,Mario.
RE: [backstage] Web2.0 - tennets, rules, development philosophy... I'd love you to give us some feedback
This is a fantastic post, Pete, thankyou. I can't even begin to pick a lot of it appart right now (it's gone six, and I've had an afternoon of meetings). I think some of what you're reacting to - and quite rightly - is that you're only seeing one tiny part of a much bigger project, that is indeed adressing 'what we've got, and what we can allow people to do with it'. Yes, a lot of this is obfuscated by saying it's 'web2' - when in fact its just.. Stuff. Content. The internet. People. I've fallen into my own trap of using a catch all term to disguise a lot of gnarly underlying issues. In the way of gnarly issues, they're a way from being sorted yet. But we're working on it - and kind of from both ends. Hence the odd 'what makes a good website?' approach. k -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Pete Cole Sent: 17 July 2006 15:44 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Web2.0 - tennets, rules, development philosophy... I'd love you to give us some feedback Way back in the mists of the late 20th century I attended a meeting with someone from Factual and Learning about the Digital Curriculum - at a time when it was still a thought. We suggested that it would be really useful if teachers could take the content that the BBC produced and re-arrange it to their requirements in their classroom. I suppose this would now be called creating a mash-up. Such ideas lead to difficult conversations about what is content, how can teachers mash-up that content, in what circumstances etc etc. As far as I can see Jam has not followed up on this. IMHO, the BBC should not try to conform to some definition of Web 2.0 (and what is a lightweight business model - one that is short?), the BBC should be creative and innovative with what it has got and the delivery mechanisms at its disposal. The list as presented here seems to be a list of technical things that can be done but without reference to what those technical things are being done to (content) and to what end (what/why/how is being viewed/used and by whom (the audience)). It seems to me the BBC have an aweful lot of content in an aweful lot of categories and also have an incredibly diverse audience using a variety of reception devices. What have the BBC got? Who can use BBC content? What do the BBC want to enable people to do with it? What can the BBC allow people to do with it? and from that: How do the BBC want them to do those things? For example, you might decide that you want to enable anyone to do what ever they like. You recently ran a competition for people to design a bbc home page, but only a mock up. A theoretical route you could go would be for bbc.co.uk to disappear and be replaced completely by 'services'. All those competition entries wouldn't have to be mock-ups, they could be real. Then www.bbc.co.uk might just be the BBCs own hack at putting a face on those services. iPlayer (or whatever it is called these days) could be just one of many apps putting a face on downloads/streams. Back to Jam, the BBC would become a provider of content components to all the VLEs out there (perhaps it already is). On the other hand, given all the rights issues etc etc etc the BBC may be forced to be a 'closed shop', no body can do much with much of your content other than look at it and write comments on it. Your list will produce an excellent, modern web site that elegantly degrades to the capabilities of the users device and that is developed in a well managed environment. This doesn't strike me as Web2.0, just web or in fact just TV, the box is a browser and that is all you can use to look at it and you can only look at it in the way it was 'broadcast'. If it seems I have missed the point, I was trying to address So, I have a kind of a list of philosophical tennets - ways that code and design and data and content and whatnot should behave when playing nice on the internet. The ways that code etc should behave will depend upon what you are going to allow; what content can be used to what end and by whom? Pete Cole --- On 7/14/06, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all As threatened, here it is.I'm part of a project internally that is looking at what the BBC does on the web, and how that should change over the next 3 years. As part of this, Tom Loosemore, grand paterfamilias of this list, has asked me to come up with some 'rules of the road for web2 sites'. Nice tight brief there, you'll appreciate. So, I have a kind of a list of philosophical tennets - ways that code and design and data and content and whatnot should behave when playing nice on the internet. I'd be really interested to hear what everyone here thinks. Am I missing things? Obviously, I'm an editorial/management type, so some of this might be barmy. But.. What do you think? Have I missed anything vital about ways of making sites
RE: [backstage] BBC TV API to SIMILE Timeline Mashup
Agreed - a lovely thing. So... hmn. What about plotting news publication times against a similar timeline? Or...um, crikey, OK - Celebdaq prices graphed over time against mentions in news stories on bbc.co.uk? Or... blog/search activity around a programme name (publication times?) against instances of the programme on telly/radio? (I'm also wondering if you could plot a timeline of events in the Dr Who universe in a similar way, but I doubt the format would cope with temporal paradoxes...) I'm doing an idlebit of thinking about timelines and chronologically sequenced information at the moment (and how 'time' might sit as a persistent context to the bbc site) so I'm really interested in SIMILE Timeline. Does anyone know of any other time period / sequencing tools or mashups? I've also got an interesting bit of thinking I'd like to chuck out to the list for discussion about the future of the BBC on them thar internets, but I'll put that under a seperate email later today. k From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ian ForresterSent: 11 July 2006 17:27To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: RE: [backstage] BBC TV API to SIMILE Timeline Mashup That's a really good way of navigating around schedule. It would be great to see other channels added to the timeline. I expect you would need a way to switch channels off and on? Ian Forrester | BBC World Service [New Media Software Engineer] From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David BurdenSent: 10 July 2006 12:44To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] BBC TV API to SIMILE Timeline Mashup The SIMILE project from MIT has been coming up with some great semantic web tools. Their latest is Timeline, a Google Maps for time and date data. Ive put together a quick demo using the 7 day BBC One schedule off the TV API. Would be relatively trivial to add in other channels (or other time data). http://www.daden.co.uk/timeline.html (looks best under Firefox) David David Burden www.chatbots.co.uk
[backstage] RE: Reboot winners: 30 June 2006
I'll give the relevant people a poke for you. And please accept my general appologies on behalf of Auntie. K -Original Message- From: Jonathan Chetwynd [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 02 July 2006 14:52 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: Kim Plowright Subject: Reboot winners: 30 June 2006 Without Prejudice :-) I'm an entrant and having worked hard, still hope to win! Could some kind individual working for the BBC please investigate and provide some further information? Kim perhaps? The winners of the Reboot competition have not been published. It's not currently clear whether in fact the judges have been appointed, or made their selection. the forum: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/F4170826 blog: http://open.bbc.co.uk/reboot/blog/ and homepage: http://open.bbc.co.uk/reboot/ have not been updated since Ben Metcalfe left the BBC on the 9th June. There are some particularly anxious folk leaving messages on the forum. I appreciate this is a time of transition and that delays are possible. cheers Jonathan Chetwynd edited extract: http://open.bbc.co.uk/reboot/s/terms/ The winners will be decided on or before 30 June 2006. Winners will be informed by e-mail. Entrants must supply full details as required and comply with all rules to be eligible for the prizes. Prizes unclaimed after 28 days will be deemed to have been forfeited and the BBC reserves the right either to offer the prize to the entrant whose name is next drawn at random, or to re-offer the prize in any future competition on the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Funny Story
5) Flash is one of the most abused web technologies in the world ever. Disabling it by either not having it installed or using a flash-blocker type app/extension can save a lot of eye-bleeding pain from those crazy kooky marketing guys. /me laughs so hard she blows coffee out of her nose. Actually, there's a fabulous article in this month's 'Creative Review' about how flash 8 is like, totally f'shure going to be the coolest thing to happen to marketing in like EVAR, which goes on for three pages and doesn't once mention accessibility. Looks pretty though. ;-) - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] tfl tube delays feed
No, but I can try and find out for you. Sorry for the slow reply; backstage is kind of rudderless at the moment, and Ben was the man with the answers. I'll do my best to keep an eye on the list between my other two jobs... it shouldn't be too long before BenMk2 takes over the project. Kim From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul LoweSent: 17 June 2006 12:58To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] tfl tube delays feed Hi Any idea when the feed for tfl tube delays will be coming back? Paul Get Skype and call me for free. Paul LoweDirectorwww.cyclinginstructor.com[EMAIL PROTECTED]079563792060845 009 5730 i From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David BurdenSent: Friday, June 16, 2006 4:36 PMTo: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: [backstage] BBC Web API questions Couple of quick points from working with the API recently: 1) The highlights group doesnt appear to have been updated since last summer. Working properly this is a really useful feature to have (like your rabbit giving you a summary of the weeks best TV every Sunday night!). 2) Trying to search by genre is about the only obvious function that needs multiple calls. You have to search once to convert the English term to a genre ID, then again to getMembers, then again on each member to get programme times by getInfo. If you want to constrain by time/channel youve got to drill down all layers for all members to find out what time the programmes are, or do it in reverse and get the schedule and then look up every programme to check its genre. Could the API be amended to give a quicker way of doing either of these? David David Burden www.chatbots.co.uk
RE: [backstage] feeds with live graphics?
OK - IANAL, and I'm not involved with news, or the homearchive, so this is me with the only-semi-bbc hat on. I can't see any reference to images in news's Terms of Use etc...'Fair Use' is unlikely to apply to images reused elsewhere; even if an image is 'small' it is still the image; it isn't an 'insubstantial part'. It's the difference between a thumbnail of a portrait, and a very tight crop of someone's actual thumbnail as shown in that portrait. ;-) Also, Fair use tends to only apply to private non-commercial excerpting of information. From: http://www.intellectual-property.gov.uk/faq/copyright/exceptions.htm Yes, there are a number of exceptions to copyright that allow limited use of copyright works without the permission of the copyright owner. For example, limited use of works may be possible for non-commercial research and private study, criticism or review, reporting current events, judicial proceedings, teaching in schools and other educational establishments, not for profit playing of sound recordings and to help visually impaired people. If you are copying large amounts of material and/or making multiple copies then you may still need permission. Also, particularly where a copyright exception covers publication of excerpts from a copyright work, it is generally necessary to include an acknowledgement. Sometimes more than one exception may apply to the use you are thinking of. There are more complications, too; in particular, images used on the BBC are often licensed from elsewhere. We-the-BBC thus don't have the rights to allow reuse, no matter how incidental. It could, potentially, jeopardise agreements with AP (who supply images) etc. But, like I say, I'm not a lawyer. Kim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chetwynd Sent: 12 June 2006 15:54 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] feeds with live graphics? I believe for such small graphics fair use may apply... have you seen: http://www.bbc.co.uk/homearchive/ this was originally and for many months hosted here: http://www.whitelabel.org/~matthew/bbcfront/ presumably scraped on a minute by minute basis :-) cheers Jonathan Chetwynd On 12 Jun 2006, at 15:20, Graeme Mulvaney wrote: I think the copyright issue still applies as you would be re-using the images in your service despite the BBC having licensed them. There must be a few thumbnails associated with each news video clip - they show up in the viewer and on the website from time to time and would be more relevant to the story than a stock image. Perhaps these images could be made freely available, licensing would be less of an issue as they'd have come from a BBC source and would probably be more relevant to the actual story than some library images. On 6/9/06, Jonathan Chetwynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Graeme, a picture of a beardy man can be used by an interested person without reading skills to select text for a screen or text reader to read, for example. a feed with a link to a graphic isn't re-distribution of the graphic. regards Jonathan Chetwynd On 9 Jun 2006, at 20:17, Graeme Mulvaney wrote: Generally the images don't belong to the BBC per se, so they can't re- distribute them. Besides, you'd have to question the relevance of the thumbnail images anyway :- How does a picture of a woman with a dodgy perm help you understand that the NHS has agreed to fund an anti-cancer treatment ? or a picture of a beardy man explain the situation in Iraq ? If people had problems reading the text of the stories then those images would only confuse them more. On 6/9/06, Jonathan Chetwynd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Where are the feeds with live graphics? About One in Five people in the UK is functionally illiterate**, they need and benefit from images. http://www.peepo.co.uk/mybbc/grab.png is how a simple css user style sheet can transform http://news.bbc.co.uk however for the present it would be great if a feed could provide something similar. cheers Jonathan Chetwynd ** http://www.lifelonglearning.co.uk/mosergroup/rep01.htm - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html . Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- You can't build a reputation based on what you are going to do. -- You can't build a reputation based on what you are going to do. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Celebdaq data
Of course! Quick result of the asking around: it's a nice idea, we'll look into the work involved. The editorial execfor the project is behind the idea. The technical folk went a bit white and said 'um, the code is maybe not as neat and tidy as it could be...' Don't hold your respective breaths... From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of vijay chopraSent: 30 January 2006 12:58To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Celebdaq data That's a shame, thanks for askingaround though. And if it is released, we'll be the first to know, right? ;-) On 30/01/06, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Vijay - I'm not aware of any plans to open-source it, but I'm askingaround.
RE: [backstage] Celebdaq data
I shall suggest that to the editorial team - I think we wanted to keep it a bit hidden until we know we've ironed out the bugs. But I'll give them a poke anyway. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Helen Emerson Sent: 26 January 2006 23:00 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Celebdaq data Ooh! I think that's cool. I was actually playing around with a bit of screen scraping the other day because I wanted to make a tool for my desktop so I could watch the prices of celebs when day trading. Maybe you could post it somewhere the daq players will be more likely to see it? I couldn't find it on the site. Helen Kim Plowright wrote: Hello chaps, You all seem a bit... underwhelmed by the celebdaq game data being made available. Is there any extra info I can get you that would make it more useful / easier to work with? http://www.bbc.co.uk/celebdaq/syndication/1/docs/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/celebdaq/ K Kim Plowright New Product Development SCP, BBC iDE MC1 D6 08, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ http://www.bbc.co.uk/entertainment http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Celebdaq data
Hello chaps, You all seem a bit... underwhelmed by the celebdaq game data being made available. Is there any extra info I can get you that would make it more useful / easier to work with? http://www.bbc.co.uk/celebdaq/syndication/1/docs/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/celebdaq/ K Kim Plowright New Product Development SCP, BBC iDE MC1 D6 08, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ http://www.bbc.co.uk/entertainment http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Random idea for someone - Creative Archive Clips indexing
http://www.bbc.co.uk/calc/radio1/ http://creative.bfi.org.uk/ http://www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/I/ideasfactory/pixnmix/index .html Hello, No idea what the Creative Archive team are planning around clips. But it stuck me that the clips that are available (in three different places) are a bit difficult to get to, categorise, download in bulk etc. If there's anyone out there interested in video search / social tagging / yadda yadda it might make an interesting start to a project? Kim Kim Plowright New Product Development SCP, BBC iDE MC1 D6 08, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ T: +44 (0) 020 800 83413 | M: +44 (0) 7980 303 908 | F: +44 (0) 20 800 83480 http://www.bbc.co.uk/entertainment http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Random idea for someone - Creative Archive Clips indexing
Thanks Dimitri, I will. Alas, IANADeveloper... Just posted in case someone was thinking along these lines and could use something to get their teeth into... K -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dmitry Kuchin Sent: 16 December 2005 14:56 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Random idea for someone - Creative Archive Clips indexing Take a look at my projects, http://myprogs.net, http://reader2.com and newborn http://myfilmz.net to see if the engine behind them suits your needs (of course after some work applied). The engine runs on PHP+MySQL. Dima Kuchin http://k78.info -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kim Plowright Sent: Friday, December 16, 2005 2:12 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Random idea for someone - Creative Archive Clips indexing http://www.bbc.co.uk/calc/radio1/ http://creative.bfi.org.uk/ http://www.channel4.com/learning/microsites/I/ideasfactory/pixnmix/index .html Hello, No idea what the Creative Archive team are planning around clips. But it stuck me that the clips that are available (in three different places) are a bit difficult to get to, categorise, download in bulk etc. If there's anyone out there interested in video search / social tagging / yadda yadda it might make an interesting start to a project? Kim Kim Plowright New Product Development SCP, BBC iDE MC1 D6 08, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ T: +44 (0) 020 800 83413 | M: +44 (0) 7980 303 908 | F: +44 (0) 20 800 83480 http://www.bbc.co.uk/entertainment http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Idea: Calendar Feeds
Title: Message I might be misunderstanding you, but what about upcoming.org? Here's their API http://upcoming.org/services/api/ Don't think this properly synchs with anything yet, but does have event feeds as rss. Their recent aquisition (yahoo, i think?) suggests that someone at one of the big companies is thinking like this... k -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tom PayneSent: 30 November 2005 10:40To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Idea: Calendar FeedsThere was a proposed module for RSS - mod_event. I've no idea if anything's been done about it since the spec was written (last updated 2002), but it may be worth looking into. You can find the spec at http://web.resource.org/rss/1.0/modules/event/ Tom. On 30 Nov 2005, at 10:17, Neil Roberts wrote: interesting idea, I can't offer much insight apart from while trying to find out what iCal and xCal where I came across the mozilla Calendar project which might point you in the right direct of what standards to useherehttp://www.innerjoin.org/iCalendar/import-export-xCal.htmland herehttp://www.mozilla.org/projects/calendar/one way I would love to see this applied to Beeb content would be on the along the lines of I missed a program on bbc 1 then I would be notified of when its repeated on bbc 4 say (or vice versa) ... maybe ... On 11/30/05, David Burden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This was prompted by all the recent chat about Perl Monger events, meet-ups etc (but will also relate to the BBC honest!). What I would find really useful would be the ability to subscribe to calendar/event feeds in the same way that I do to RSS feeds. That way I could have an aggregated browser page that showed me all the events that might interest me over the coming weeks. I don't want to dump the stuff into Outlook as these are "might do" rather than "will do" things, and anyway I want to get them from anywhere or feed them into another application. In my mind I see an RSS type feed, but like the RSS attributes discussion earlier it just has tags for things like date time location etc. I could even search the TVAnytime data for my favourite programmes and generate the requisite feed and have it populate the diary for me (and warn me when I'm going to miss something!). Is there such a standard/application out there? I've looked at vCal but its not XML based and seems old-fashioned (but widely adopted), and its unclear whether xCal has made it into the real world yet. Or I could just use a different namespace in a standard RSS feed I suppose. If I was going to build such an app, and then encourage event organisers/media companies etc to generate feeds, what would be the best standard to go for? Or is there a far simpler way to do all this that I'm missing because it's getting late! David -- Damitan mo man ang matsing, matsing pa rin.(A monkey dressed up is still a monkey.)
RE: [backstage] Where should I suggest that the BBC could their feeds?
GENIUS idea. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Brian Butterworth Sent: 28 November 2005 18:08 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Where should I suggest that the BBC could their feeds? I had a idea about BBC News's channel using these feeds... Where should I post it? I was watching BBC News 24 this week and there was a feature about sudden snow on Bodmin Moor, Cornwall. One woman said there was nothing on the news about it, and it occurred to me that if she was watching News 24, she was probably right. News 24 has a variety of Astons (graphics), but I was thinking about the scrolling bar at the bottom of the screen. I don't know how integrated News 24 and BBC Online are I don't know if the scroller is driven from one of the backstage RSS feeds, but it should be! This grey/blue visual bar with white text is added somewhere to the studio output by some box of tricks - usually a PC. News 24 doesn't have the regional variations that BBC ONE does - it has always been distributed identically to satellite, cable and Freeview. Sadly, as all dishes point at the same satellite, regionalisation is unfeasible. On Freeview, the channel's programs are transmitted in the same digital terrestrial multiplex that has a national or regional versions of BBC ONE on Freeview. It the similar on cable. So, my idea is to program a box of tricks to overlay a customized RSS-fed scroller for each of the nations (Wales, Scotland, NI) and English regional variations (for Birmingham, Manchester, Hull, Leeds, Nottingham, Norwich, Cambridge, Bristol, Tunbridge Wells, Southampton, Plymouth, Newcastle, Oxford, London and the Channel Islands). So you would see your own local news, sport and weather in vision. Then follow with the current headlines, sport etc. So the 6 million Freeview homes could get their local news first - with snow warnings where necessary! Where can I suggest this? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP issue
BBC Worldwide Limited is company, wholly owned by the BBC, that sells BBC merchandise (e.g. video and audio recordings of BBC programmes, books, magazines, toys and games). They're primarily there to hold the rights to BBC productions for commercial exploitation - ie, for rebroadcast internationally, for DVD release, and for repeat on non-BBC channels in the UK. They then re-invest in the public service bit of the BBC on a production-by-production basis; ie, putting money in if they think a show has strong commercial potential after its public service 'free' life. It's all a bit complicated, and I only vaguely understand the arrangement. And you're not wrong, Nico - the political and economic issues about the idea would be... large. K - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Firefox extension competition
Just stumbled across this compo - write firefox extension, win tricked up Alienware PC. http://developer.mozilla.org/contests/extendfirefox/ Thought some of the folk here might want to give it a bash. Kim Plowright New Product Development SCP, BBC iDE MC1 D6 08, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ T: +44 (0) 020 800 83413 | M: +44 (0) 7980 303 908 | F: +44 (0) 20 800 83480 http://www.bbc.co.uk/entertainment http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Mood News Update and an Idea
Be slightly tempted to then plumb that into a screensaver that shows you pictures of your team's classic moments when they've won, and comforting pictures of kittens when they're doing less well. You know, to cheer you up, like... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David Sargeant Sent: 14 November 2005 22:55 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: RE: [backstage] Mood News Update and an Idea Just thinking out loud here (so feel free to ignore :-) ) but be nice to have a sports version of mood news and let me specify which teams I like in a positive context and which ones are good in a negative context: England win - Positive and Good News Australia win - Positive yet Bad News England lose - Negative and Bad News Australia lose - Negative yet Good News!?! Guess it depends how you are defining good and bad... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Davy Mitchell Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 10:34 PM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Mood News Update and an Idea Hi Folks, Just added some personalisation features to Mood News. You can specify some keywords to track stories on which are presented in Good to Bad order. http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/ Cookies and Javascript required. Also there have been numerous backend tweaks and most of the javascript has been optimised. Anyway while putting it together I wondered if anyone fancied taking on this little idea... How about a Google News style page for BBC content. It would be handy to have single customisable page to view all to stories arranged by topics. I'd read it - promise :-) Thanks, Davy Mitchell Mood News - BBC News Headlines Auto-Classified as Good, Bad or Neutral. http://www.latedecember.com/sites/moodnews/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
Because it's written entirely in standards compliant code, with CSS, so can be rendered using a user-applied stylesheet, I think? I've heard - and this is just on the internal bush telegraph, nothing official, that betsie is slowly being phased out in favour of fully accessible coding of pages. I think it's getting a bit long in the tooth and there are load issues, but I could be wrong. K -Original Message- From: Gordon Joly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 08 November 2005 10:08 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: Kim Plowright; Jonathan Chetwynd Subject: RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ Why is there no text only link on this page? There is on most pages on bbc.co.uk... Feel free to use this! http://www.recursion.co.uk/cgi-bin/betsie.cgi/www.bbc.co.uk/accessibilit y/ No charge! Gordo -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// http://www.bbc.co.uk/ This e-mail (and any attachments) is confidential and may contain personal views which are not the views of the BBC unless specifically stated. If you have received it in error, please delete it from your system. Do not use, copy or disclose the information in any way nor act in reliance on it and notify the sender immediately. Please note that the BBC monitors e-mails sent or received. Further communication will signify your consent to this. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP
You're *such* a terror. :-) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chetwynd Sent: 04 November 2005 16:19 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] iMP Kim, I'd just like to correct your suggestion that we only execute internal candidates, in fact we're open to anybody and that is why details are circulated on the BBC Backstage list. There was a slight mix-up on the day they appeared, as the BBC Snuff team inadvertently forgot to flag them as externally visible. Some list members kindly made me aware of this, and the problem was fixed on the same day. Unfortunately the closing date for applications has now passed, so the posts are no longer on the BBC Snuff site. However, new opportunities are often posted in the same area, so keep an eye on it if you are interested. Furthermore, I must address your implication of unfairness in our selection strategy, specifically the favouring of 'friends' over other candidates. This is absolutely not the case, we follow a rigorous fair selection process when firing all of our staff, and this was no exception. I hope this has cleared up any misunderstanding that may have occurred, and I apologise if I was not clear in any of my previous emails about this matter. All the best, ~: ps if you know what this means, please let me know, I'm only the designer. Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad?
I don't know about exactly how they've taken accessibility into account on iMP - maybe take the question to the message board posted here earlier? I'll ask Priya on your behalf if I see her around, though. I can't imagine for a second it's been ignored, but I suppose there's a possibility that they haven't completed all the work on it in the beta? Here's some official-ly stuff about what we do: Re accessibility in general, we do have best practice in place: http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/bbc/standards.shtml http://www.bbc.co.uk/guidelines/newmedia/accessibility/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/accessibility/ We also work with AbilityNet on accessibility; they also run *amazing* training courses for us, which all producers and coders in our department went to; it's humbling watching someone surf your site with a screenreader, certainly. http://www.abilitynet.org.uk/ From my point of view - accessibility is always something I take in to account; it makes sites/products more accessible to *everyone*, not just those who use alternative access methods. Great believer in common sense, me... k -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chetwynd Sent: 05 November 2005 08:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? iMP: accessibility, is the smell really that bad? Does anyone have links to positive reports on the accessibility of iMP? According to: http://cms.elfden.co.uk/2005/10/18/bbc-imp-trial-part-1/ Accessibility wise it stinks. No keyboard access what so ever. Who is responsible for accessibility at iMP and which groups representing people with disabilities were invited to comment? Could this be an integral part of the BBC's regular best practice? cheers! Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Backstage - Stagnant
It's also complicated by the fact that there aren't just rights in the TV programme, there are all kind of underlying rights (ie, copyright on things that appear in programme) that might need to be cleared as well. Literary - a script, for drama; poetry, quotations, song lyrics, book readings etc Works of art - might include buildings, logos etc, plus Photographs (and photographs of works of art have two sets of copyright...) Stagings - I think, called grand rights - for things like choreography etc Music rights - both in the composition, and the performances Typography - ie, the layout of an edition of a book, even if the original text is out of copyright. An interesting case in point is the Daleks - the BBC owns the rights in the way they look, but the estate of Terry Nation owns the rights in the character and the way they behave. So if you wanted to use the image of a dalek you'd have to clear the rights with the BBC, but if you wanted to animate it to make it move and go 'Exterminate!' you'd also need to clear with the estate. http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/indetail/ownership.htm Copyright in a literary, dramatic, musical or artistic work (including a photograph) lasts until 70 years after the death of the author. The duration of copyright in a film is 70 years after the death of the last to survive of the principal director, the authors of the screenplay and dialogue, and the composer of any music specially created for the film. Sound recordings are generally protected for 50 years from the year of publication. Broadcasts are protected for 50 years and published editions are protected for 25 years. For copyright works created outside the UK or another country of the European Economic Area, the term of protection may be shorter. There may also be differences for works created before 1 January 1996. So - even if the broadcast copyright has expired, it's no guarantee that the underlying rights have... -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Gordon Joly Sent: 02 November 2005 22:23 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk; Andrew Bowden Subject: RE: [backstage] Backstage - Stagnant At 12:57 +0100 26/10/05, Andrew Bowden wrote: Are there old shows in your archive that have had their copyrights expire? If so, there's no reason they can't be placed up right now, other then potentially bandwidth. (To which I'd say that you should offer them via torrent -- you keep running the tracker and a single seed, and let the mob effect take care of the rest.) IIRC it takes 50 years for the copyright to expire so that puts us in 1955. It is not a copyright issue, per se. It is a rights issue. Digital rights. Here is an succinct description of The duration of copyright from http://tyler.hrc.utexas.edu/uk.cfm quot The time period for copyright has grown continually longer over the last three centuries. Many think it is now absurdly long. In Britain the Copyright Act of 1842 introduced the idea of post mortem copyright protection; it established a copyright period of 42 years from the date of first publication or 7 years after the author's death, whichever was the longer. The Copyright Act of 1911 extended the period to 50 years after an author's death; and the European Union Directive on Term of Copyright (adopted by the UK on 1 January 1996) further extended the standard period to 70 years p.m.a. Thus in 2004 works by authors who died in 1934 or any year thereafter remain in copyright. /quot Gordo (born 1955) -- Think Feynman/ http://pobox.com/~gordo/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]/// - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Programme Archive/Message Board beta
That sounds great! The prototype screen shots on Ben's website look good as well (although I have to question whether John Peel may have appeared in slightly more than 2 Home Truths programmes between 1993 and 2005, what with him presenting it most of the time and all! :-) ). Yep - I noticed this with 'How Buildings Learn' playing with the prototype internally. Steward Brand, the presenter, was listed in the body of the description, but *regular contributors* - eg presenters don't appear in the cast and crew listings. Sub-optimal... Perhaps they're held at a higher-than-programme level, eg in some kind of 'series' or 'brand' abstraction? Is there a way to recognise names within the descrition texts and add to the metadata? (also - BBC types - is it worth pointing out 'SMEF' to the list? I think it's available externally? I've just spent the morning discussing the way it can be used to model programme related websites...) K - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Timezone bug?
Title: Message From an internal perspective Yes! seperate out Series, Episode numbers and Ep Titles into clear fields. It's really useful if you were to use TV anytime data to populate programme support sites like, say, bbc.co.uk/buffy or /theoffice - and becomes really important for following ongoing series. It's something that the Radio Times do in a very patchy way. You could, for instance, make a query engine that lets you build a personal schedule around watching a show in story order across all the various channels and repeats (Ishare a house with people who can occasionally beseen screaming 'SPOILER!' and running from the room with their hands over their ears, can you tell?) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Graeme MulvaneySent: 30 October 2005 14:30To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Timezone bug? Looking at the synopses on sky; the episode information is usually the first sentence. On a slightly different note, is there any chance of including episode numbersfor more series.. It's handy for shows like QI and Bodieswhich are prepeated on different channels. I appreciate that it makes little sense forongoing shows, but for series like "Days that shook the World", which seem to pop up at random, it helps to keep track of what you may have missed - and gives you an idea as to when the current series will end. On 10/30/05, Hywel Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 14:23 30/10/2005, you wrote:Hello, backstagers: It looks like the data generator on the BBC end is having timezone issues -- all data I have for today (from the 20051029 tarball) is anhour off.For a while I thought that it was on my end, but no, theactual XML files get it wrong.Also, I noticed that at least for some shows, the time in the ProgramURL does not agree with the time in the PublishedStartTime by a few minutes.What does this difference represent?Are the PublishedStartTimes simplyinaccurate but look nice, or is there something more interesting going on?Also, rather unrelatedly, would it be possible to get the name of theepisode in a seperate element from the free-text descriptions? Thank you, -=- James Mastros I can't see anything wrong with the times in the data sets both fortoday and the 29th's tarball.Remember that they're all in UTC(hence the Z at the end of the time), so anything up until 31stOctober appears to be out of synch by an hour.I'll look into it in more detail tomorrow to ensure there isn't a problem, but at the endof the day, it's up to the end application to sort out daylight savings.The time difference you're seeing is the difference between thepublished time and the actual time the playout server was going toshow the programme. Sometimes programmes may start early and at othertimes late.More often or not, these days this is not accidental -prerecorded BBC television services mostly come off servers these days so the timing can be down to the second.Having said that, the figures you're seeing are only a snapshot ofthe estimated start times at 8am in the morning when the files aregenerated.These times shift and change throughout the day.The only "anchors" you'll notice are the 1, 6 and 10 o'clock news on BBCOne which start at the exact time published.In the future, a TV-Anytime service may be broadcast along with atv/radio digital service or provided as a live Internet feed and this exact time could be used to, say start a PVR or stream recorder.As to separating the name - I'll look into the TV-Anytime standard tosee if there's a field for this (I don't recollect one) when I havethat hefty tome on my desk at work tomorrow.The synopsis provided is in fact a slightly cleaned up version of the one that goes out toSky and Freeview, so to extract the title from the synopsis, I'd haveto somehow work out which part of the text is the episode title.Ifthere's a pattern, it's easy to write a filter.Where differentschedulers do it in different ways, that's where it gets complicated.Hywel[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group.To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html .Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/-- You can't build a reputation based on what you are going to do.
RE: [backstage] Timezone bug?
Title: Message [Taking this back on list as need the attention of the TV anytime guys] LOL - If anything, I'm Ms Web Editorial - I'm a content producer with small grasp of technical stuff, who just happens to be reasonably good at translating technical stuff into useful content ideas. I've done a lot of making TV programme based content on bbc.co.uk, and a bit of thinking about data models for that. Theset-to-record from trailer isa great idea - and you're right, should be possible / doable. The problem is, i think, that CRID isn't widely used across the whole industry - i don't know if TV anytime is used by sky? There's also a problem that somehow, the trails (BBC speak for trailer) would have to be synched with some kind ofCRID broadcasting widget. I may be wrong, but I think that trails are added on a very ad-hoc basis in the transmission suite - they can be added, swappedor removed atthe last second (literally!)to keep the schedules running on time, and are played in from digibeta. (This might be from harddisk these days... it's a year or two since I've chatted to anyone in TX (BBC Speak for Transmission)in the bar.) Oy! Kingswood boys! What do you think to this, and can you explain whetherthe ideawould work, and what the issues are, in terms I can follow? (and for the avoidance of doubt - I'm a lady, but I can see how you'd not necessarily guess... :-) -Original Message-From: Graeme Mulvaney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 31 October 2005 14:13To: Kim PlowrightSubject: Re: [backstage] Timezone bug? Hi Kim, You seem to me "Mr schedule" ;) Can I ask you something... It looks like TV-Anytime supportstrailers, so I guess you can annotate them them with a CRID specific to the programme, series or group being advertised. What I'd like is to be able to do isto hit the green button my sky remote to add whaterver is being trailed to my personal planner. Do you think this would be feasible at some point ? It's a pain in the neck when you trail a programme that is being prepeated lateron another channel. Graeme On 10/31/05, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From an internal perspective Yes! seperate out Series, Episode numbers and Ep Titles into clear fields. It's really useful if you were to use TV anytime data to populate programme support sites like, say, bbc.co.uk/buffy or /theoffice - and becomes really important for following ongoing series. It's something that the Radio Times do in a very patchy way. You could, for instance, make a query engine that lets you build a personal schedule around watching a show in story order across all the various channels and repeats (Ishare a house with people who can occasionally beseen screaming 'SPOILER!' and running from the room with their hands over their ears, can you tell?) -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Graeme MulvaneySent: 30 October 2005 14:30To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Timezone bug? Looking at the synopses on sky; the episode information is usually the first sentence. On a slightly different note, is there any chance of including episode numbersfor more series.. It's handy for shows like QI and Bodieswhich are prepeated on different channels. I appreciate that it makes little sense forongoing shows, but for series like "Days that shook the World", which seem to pop up at random, it helps to keep track of what you may have missed - and gives you an idea as to when the current series will end. On 10/30/05, Hywel Williams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 14:23 30/10/2005, you wrote:Hello, backstagers: It looks like the data generator on the BBC end is having timezone issues -- all data I have for today (from the 20051029 tarball) is an hour off.For a while I thought that it was on my end, but no, theactual XML files get it wrong.Also, I noticed that at least for some shows, the time in the ProgramURL does not agree with the time in the PublishedStartTime by a few minutes. What does this difference represent?Are the PublishedStartTimes simplyinaccurate but look nice, or is there something more interesting going on?Also, rather unrelatedly, would it be possible to get the name of the episode in a seperate element from the free-text descriptions? Thank you, -=- James Mastros I can't see anything wrong with the times in the data sets both fortoday and the 29th's tarball.Remember that they're all in UTC(hence the Z at the end of the time), so anything
RE: [backstage] other ways of working ?
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Biddulph Sent: 27 October 2005 15:24 Who says the BBC has to host it? Isn't this a community? I bet it'd happen a lot faster if some philanthropist just put it up on a server and pointed everyone on the list to it. Ah yes. I have my BBC jobsworth hat on again. Sorry. /me puts on common sense hat instead Lets coordinate it somehow tho, so we don't get two hundred overnight? - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Backstage - Stagnant
Title: Message I think a key thing is feedback - and this needs to happen quickly to keep the flow of conversation / development going. Hmn, yeah, sorry. I think Ben's holiday came at a slightlyunfortunate time, bless his cybergoth socks. Come home, Ben! We (bbc and nonbbc folk) aren't wonderful about giving feedback on people's prototypes on the list. Does anyone want to volunteer up something to chew over? Also - what about an open 'ideas' conversation on list? A bit of general chat about one of Tom's Topics might help us all spark off each other? As a non-coder I'm always happy to look over stuff and provide the'why don't you think about it in this completely impossible to impliment way'sort of input. I get the feeling that conversations tend to spin off between individuals rather than staying on-list and providing grist to all... There may be some more stuff being released from our department (drama and entertainment) to you lot soon. I'll poke our chaps at this end... I'll also try and write a similar thought-provoking bit to Tom to try and get some non-factual ideas kicking around... k -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Leo LapworthSent: 26 October 2005 08:53To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.ukSubject: Re: [backstage] Backstage - Stagnant On 26 Oct 2005, at 02:23, Tom Loosemore wrote: - Any radical innovation in PVR EPGs. I'd love to hear from anyone playing with Digital TV Radio - be that with Freeview versions of the MythTV open source EPG or Topsfield 5800s ( see http://www.toppy.org.uk/ ) The pandora/promise.tv 7-day PVR started life as a Myth TV-based prototype we commissioned (see http://www.promise.tv ) In short, bring internet thinking to Digital TV radio - it's fun, and the collision between the two worlds is bound to lead to some tasty new stuff emerging. Isn't that http://www.mightyv.com/, at least a start of that ? We already work with eyeTV and have plans for others (maybe a MythTV plugin), in fact we have lots of ideas, but we want to find out about the competition results before motivating our selves to take it further. I think a key thing is feedback - and this needs to happen quickly to keep the flow of conversation / development going. Cheers Leo
RE: [backstage] Weather feeds
Title: Message I'm not sure - I know there's been a lot of discussion going on behind the scenes, and these are the kind of HPI's I was thinking of below. Ben will be able to fill us in on his return; he'll have theofficialline. K -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Richard PriceIs there not going to be an issue with redistributing Met office data? I recently looked into getting xml weather data feeds directly from the Met Office and it is by no means cheap!RichardJames wrote: Is it still the case that you get the text feeds via the Met. Office and your muching these to produce the XML? The Met. Office are so behind the times :( So much information and no innovative use of technology on thier website. Kim Plowright wrote: According to my mole in weather, the feeds are ready, but awaiting Ben's return to be launched. This is assuming there aren't any HPIs (horrible policy issues) that neither of us know about... This is, of course, the unofficial answer! K -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Dogsbody Sent: 20 October 2005 15:04 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Weather feeds Is there any word on when the weather feeds are being released? I went to OpenTech 05, and I seem to recall it was happening "next week"! Oh, it's a long story - but I'm sorry it's been delayed and I'm hoping we can get this out in the next 14 days or so. Sorry for sending a chase but I'm very interested in this feed and it's almost a month later! :-\ Any news?? Thank you Dan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Richard Price E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] W: www.worldofkitsch.com A: 88 Faversham Avenue, Anlaby, East Yorkshire, HU4 7RE T: 01482 571287 M: 07890 100915 World of Kitsch is a not-for-profit website with all proceeds shared between Meningitis Research and the MS Society
RE: [backstage] Weather feeds
According to my mole in weather, the feeds are ready, but awaiting Ben's return to be launched. This is assuming there aren't any HPIs (horrible policy issues) that neither of us know about... This is, of course, the unofficial answer! K -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Dogsbody Sent: 20 October 2005 15:04 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] Weather feeds Is there any word on when the weather feeds are being released? I went to OpenTech 05, and I seem to recall it was happening next week! Oh, it's a long story - but I'm sorry it's been delayed and I'm hoping we can get this out in the next 14 days or so. Sorry for sending a chase but I'm very interested in this feed and it's almost a month later! :-\ Any news?? Thank you Dan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] CSS changes based on weather conditions
Ooh, ace, thanks everyone. Really useful. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jakob Fix Sent: 20 October 2005 15:24 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] CSS changes based on weather conditions Kim, On 20/10/05, Kim Plowright [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello, Asking the backstage uberbrain because I'm snowed and can't find anything quickly via google. Does anyone know of a site that changes design (via CSS) according to the status of an external feed? In particular, one that changes according to the local weather conditions? I *seem* to remember some sweet user-time based design changes somewhere, but can't track them down. Sony Vaios change background color/images according to time, IIRC. The Sony PSP changes the background colour each month. Mmh, not exactly what you asked, and not a product endorsement either :-), but I was impressed at the time. -- cheers, Jakob. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Developer jobs
Hey Jonathan, It was a great one-liner, and made me snigger - but to be honest, jokes about nepotism within the BBC made on a BBC hosted list are probably going to go down like a faintly libellous bucket of cold sick. :-) [2] Stephen's formal response is understandable under the circumstances; the recruitment policy here is indeed set up to prevent any kind of favouritism, and that needed pointing out. Every so often you just have to put on your BBC hat [2]. Tedious, stuffy, not in the spirit of the brave new internet and all that, but necessary if one doesn't want to get impaled by some angry folk from HR. All of us BBC types are in an interesting position on list, in that we're here for fun and to take part, but we also have to walk that awkward line between being Auntie's babies and just another listee. Bear with our occasional humour lapses? You picked up the grades detail from the other mails, right? (And hey, this is me *without* my BBC hat on, and with my list-mothering hat [3] on, can you tell?) Kim [1] Note: REALLY BIG affectionate smiley here. [2] it looks a bit like the jobsworth award from 'That's Life!', if you remember that? [3] pink tweed, with plastic grapes and a pheasant feather. Kim Plowright New Product Development SCP, BBC iDE MC1 D6 08, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ http://www.bbc.co.uk/entertainment http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Chetwynd Sent: 17 October 2005 19:58 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Cc: Stephen Elson Subject: Re: [backstage] Developer jobs Stephen, sense of humour failure isn't usually this prevalent even in the BBC. how about an answer to the original mail: Could anyone enlighten me as to how much grades 7D and 8D actually pay? regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Learning Disabilities and the Internet 29 Crimsworth Road SW8 4RJ 020 7978 1764 - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] Jobs feed?
Ben - but he's on peregrinations around China at the mo. It should be reasonably trivial, as iirc the jobs site is run from (gasp!) a CMS; there might be policy issues tho. There ususally are... :-) Could try badgering Jem. Jem? k -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Neil Phillips Sent: 18 October 2005 13:44 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] Jobs feed? Hi, I asked a while back if there were any plans to publish a bbc jobs feed (preferably geolocated), who's the best person to badger about this ? Cheers, Neil Jobble.org - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] combining prototypes?
Help me find stuff Then make sure that it *stays found* Just a thought for an approach! K Kim Plowright New Product Development SCP, BBC iDE MC1 D6 08, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ T: +44 (0) 020 800 83413 | M: +44 (0) 7980 303 908 | F: +44 (0) 20 800 83480 http://www.bbc.co.uk/entertainment http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mario Menti Sent: 06 October 2005 10:15 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: [backstage] combining prototypes? Looking at the prototypes published on this list and on the backstage site, it occured to me that by combining some of them, we may end up with the ultimate multi-channel multi-purpose web/SMS/IM/VoIP/chatbot tv schedule search/suggestion/comparison/reminder app (ok, the name will need some work...) Is anyone interested in sitting down together and discussing the potential of integrating some of the various ideas and concepts shown in these prototypes? Cheers, Mario. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Audioscrobbler - music data api
http://www.audioscrobbler.net/data/webservices/ 'Lo all. Thought you might be interested in this - the Last.fm chaps have released an API to their data. Might work nicely in some kind of music news mashup? K Kim Plowright Project Manager, BBC iDE http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
[backstage] Mapping - old images
Hey, One for all you Mapping-Fu guys: via boingboing: http://eecue.com/laautomap-index.html 1909 LA city guide, mapped to modern LA. /wonders - how good is the location data for the People's War? http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/C1077 (bum, not very) Free Idea: How about someone writing a nice app to sit on top of Google Maps that would let the old'uns peg their memories on to the location they took place? Should be doable, and is an interesting usability challenge too... Kim Plowright Project Manager, BBC iDE MC1 D2 77, Media Centre, BBC Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London, W12 7TQ T: +44 (0) 020 800 83389 | M: +44 (0) 7980 303 908 | F: +44 (0) 20 800 83480 http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy http://www.bbc.co.uk/drama - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
