Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 2:00 PM Robert Trevellyan < robert.trevell...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 2:41 PM Les Mikesell wrote: > >> On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:25 PM Robert Trevellyan >> wrote: >> >> > I'm pretty sure my Ubuntu systems are not using FUSE to access ZFS. If >> that means I have to trust the lawyers for Canonical as to the legality of >> using ZFS on Ubuntu, so be it. >> >> https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/13/zfs_linux/ >> >> Torvalds declared: "Don't use ZFS. It's that simple." >> >> So, there's always freebsd... > > > I'm not seeking "a Torvalds stamp of approval" on my systems. > Late to the conversation, but it's not really about "Linus", ZFS is NOT GPL compliant. You can care about that or not, but that's up to you. I agree from all I can tell that it's a superior file system but that doesn't change the fact their licensing sucks. CDDL has issues which is the same reason conical cdrecord is not implemented in FOSS distros like Fedora. Thanks, Richard ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Perl error on FreeBSD
What version of File::RsyncP is this? Craig On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:01 AM absolutely_free--- via BackupPC-users < backuppc-users@lists.sourceforge.net> wrote: > Hi, > > I am using BackupPC 3 on two FreeBSD 12.1 servers. > > On both servers, I am unable to run backups, I get error: > > Can't use an undefined value as a symbol reference at > /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/mach/5.32/File/RsyncP.pm line 554. > > I tried with CLI, I got exact same error. > $ perl -v > > This is perl 5, version 32, subversion 1 (v5.32.1) built for > amd64-freebsd-thread-multi > > any suggestion? > thank you > > > ___ > BackupPC-users mailing list > BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net > List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users > Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki > Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/ > ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 2:41 PM Les Mikesell wrote: > On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:25 PM Robert Trevellyan > wrote: > > > I'm pretty sure my Ubuntu systems are not using FUSE to access ZFS. If > that means I have to trust the lawyers for Canonical as to the legality of > using ZFS on Ubuntu, so be it. > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/13/zfs_linux/ > > Torvalds declared: "Don't use ZFS. It's that simple." > > So, there's always freebsd... I'm not seeking "a Torvalds stamp of approval" on my systems. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
Les Mikesell wrote at about 13:40:00 -0600 on Friday, February 5, 2021: > On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:25 PM Robert Trevellyan > wrote: > > > I'm pretty sure my Ubuntu systems are not using FUSE to access ZFS. If > > that means I have to trust the lawyers for Canonical as to the legality of > > using ZFS on Ubuntu, so be it. > > https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/13/zfs_linux/ > > Torvalds declared: "Don't use ZFS. It's that simple." > > So, there's always freebsd... > > -- > Les Mikesell > lesmikes...@gmail.com > The following makes clear that ZFS for Ubuntu can be either a kernel module or FUSE. Also, the article touts all the claimed benefits of ZFS... https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ZFS ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:25 PM Robert Trevellyan wrote: > I'm pretty sure my Ubuntu systems are not using FUSE to access ZFS. If that > means I have to trust the lawyers for Canonical as to the legality of using > ZFS on Ubuntu, so be it. https://www.theregister.com/2020/01/13/zfs_linux/ Torvalds declared: "Don't use ZFS. It's that simple." So, there's always freebsd... -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 1:34 PM Les Mikesell wrote: > On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 12:02 PM Robert Trevellyan > wrote: > > > Problematic in what way? It's been silky smooth for me with Ubuntu. > > Because it is not GPL and the kernel has a restriction against linking > anything that can't be distributed under the GPL. So, you either have > the overhead of FUSE or questionable legality. > I'm pretty sure my Ubuntu systems are not using FUSE to access ZFS. If that means I have to trust the lawyers for Canonical as to the legality of using ZFS on Ubuntu, so be it. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 12:02 PM Robert Trevellyan wrote: > Problematic in what way? It's been silky smooth for me with Ubuntu. Because it is not GPL and the kernel has a restriction against linking anything that can't be distributed under the GPL. So, you either have the overhead of FUSE or questionable legality. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
>>> Problematic in what way? It's been silky smooth for me with Ubuntu >From what I've read, ZFS on Linux is not GPL compliant. Doug ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 12:53 PM Les Mikesell wrote: > On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 11:45 AM Robert Trevellyan > wrote: > > > > > Is there any reason not to choose ZFS? Even without redundancy, you'll > at least know if it's corrupted. > > ZFS on Linux is always problematic because Linus wants it to be. > Ext4 is the path of least resistance and I've always found its tools > to be good at repairs (had trouble with XFS long ago, back when it's > speed of creating/deleting files made it seem to be worth using) Problematic in what way? It's been silky smooth for me with Ubuntu. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 11:45 AM Robert Trevellyan wrote: > > Is there any reason not to choose ZFS? Even without redundancy, you'll at > least know if it's corrupted. ZFS on Linux is always problematic because Linus wants it to be. Ext4 is the path of least resistance and I've always found its tools to be good at repairs (had trouble with XFS long ago, back when it's speed of creating/deleting files made it seem to be worth using). -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 12:34 PM wrote: > G.W. Haywood via BackupPC-users wrote at about 14:44:57 + on Friday, > February 5, 2021: > > Hi there, > > > > On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 Les Mikesell wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:05 PM wrote: > > > > > > > ... Snapshots have also saved me when I have run across the > occasional > > > > backuppc gremlin of disappearing files in that I can find the cpool > > > > file and revert it from past snapshots. > > > > > > Are you sure that the disappearing files aren't a quirk of btrfs in > > > the first place? > > > > > :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) > > > > Seriously, I've never seen a BackupPC file "disappear" - but are we not > > in danger of missing the point that the OP is planning that this drive > > will use a USB interface? > > > > Be *very* careful with any 'modern' filesystem if you use a USB > interface. > > I've seen filesystems trashed by USB communication failures, and the > more > > 'modern' the filesystem, the more irretrievable seems to be the failure. > > > > My advice would be don't do that, unless you're comfortable with trashed > > filesystems and it won't matter to you very much when it happens. > > So what filesystem is safest to run over USB? > Is there any reason not to choose ZFS? Even without redundancy, you'll at least know if it's corrupted. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
G.W. Haywood via BackupPC-users wrote at about 14:44:57 + on Friday, February 5, 2021: > Hi there, > > On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 Les Mikesell wrote: > > > > On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:05 PM wrote: > > > > > ... Snapshots have also saved me when I have run across the occasional > > > backuppc gremlin of disappearing files in that I can find the cpool > > > file and revert it from past snapshots. > > > > Are you sure that the disappearing files aren't a quirk of btrfs in > > the first place? > > :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) > > Seriously, I've never seen a BackupPC file "disappear" - but are we not > in danger of missing the point that the OP is planning that this drive > will use a USB interface? > > Be *very* careful with any 'modern' filesystem if you use a USB interface. > I've seen filesystems trashed by USB communication failures, and the more > 'modern' the filesystem, the more irretrievable seems to be the failure. > > My advice would be don't do that, unless you're comfortable with trashed > filesystems and it won't matter to you very much when it happens. So what filesystem is safest to run over USB? ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
[BackupPC-users] Perl error on FreeBSD
Hi, I am using BackupPC 3 on two FreeBSD 12.1 servers. On both servers, I am unable to run backups, I get error: Can't use an undefined value as a symbol reference at /usr/local/lib/perl5/site_perl/mach/5.32/File/RsyncP.pm line 554. I tried with CLI, I got exact same error. $ perl -v This is perl 5, version 32, subversion 1 (v5.32.1) built for amd64-freebsd-thread-multi any suggestion? thank you ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
On 2021-02-05 06:26, G.W. Haywood via BackupPC-users wrote: Hi there, On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, Kenneth Porter wrote: On Wed, 3 Feb 2021, backuppc@kosowsky wrote: > On Wed, 3 Feb 2021, Kenneth Porter wrote: > > > I'm deploying a system with an external (USB) 1.5 TB drive. How should I > > format it? (Ie. which filesystem is best for this?) > > I just built backuppc for my Raspberry PI and ordered an external SSD > drive that I plan to format in btrfs. I'm using CentOS, and it looks like Red Hat is dropping btrfs ... They're dropping BTRFS because they can't support it in the way they'd like to for their commercial customers. That's because it's unstable. It's been said that it's been almost ready for production for about a decade, and I can't help thinking that it will probably stay that way until it expires during the heat death of the universe. Almost none of this is true. It seems to pretty accurately reflect Red Hat's justification for dropping support, which I don't oppose; they can do whatever they want. However, BTRFS has been stable since 2013. There are a number of features (planned and implemented) which aren't production ready, which you'll note doesn't substantially differ from any actively developed filesystem that hasn't stagnated. For a backup system, I wouldn't even consider BTRFS. If I were going to try BTRFS for anything at all (I have no reason at all to want to explore that kind of a headache) then first I'd create an EXT4 filesystem, and then I'd convert that to BTRFS in situ. Then, if all else failed, I could revert to EXT4 at, er, the drop of a hat. Theoretically. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
Hi there, On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 Les Mikesell wrote: On Thu, Feb 4, 2021 at 11:05 PM wrote: > ... Snapshots have also saved me when I have run across the occasional > backuppc gremlin of disappearing files in that I can find the cpool > file and revert it from past snapshots. Are you sure that the disappearing files aren't a quirk of btrfs in the first place? :):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):):) Seriously, I've never seen a BackupPC file "disappear" - but are we not in danger of missing the point that the OP is planning that this drive will use a USB interface? Be *very* careful with any 'modern' filesystem if you use a USB interface. I've seen filesystems trashed by USB communication failures, and the more 'modern' the filesystem, the more irretrievable seems to be the failure. My advice would be don't do that, unless you're comfortable with trashed filesystems and it won't matter to you very much when it happens. -- 73, Ged. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
Re: [BackupPC-users] Which filesystem for external backup drive?
Hi there, On Thu, 4 Feb 2021, Kenneth Porter wrote: On Wed, 3 Feb 2021, backuppc@kosowsky wrote: > On Wed, 3 Feb 2021, Kenneth Porter wrote: > > > I'm deploying a system with an external (USB) 1.5 TB drive. How should I > > format it? (Ie. which filesystem is best for this?) > > I just built backuppc for my Raspberry PI and ordered an external SSD > drive that I plan to format in btrfs. I'm using CentOS, and it looks like Red Hat is dropping btrfs ... They're dropping BTRFS because they can't support it in the way they'd like to for their commercial customers. That's because it's unstable. It's been said that it's been almost ready for production for about a decade, and I can't help thinking that it will probably stay that way until it expires during the heat death of the universe. For a backup system, I wouldn't even consider BTRFS. If I were going to try BTRFS for anything at all (I have no reason at all to want to explore that kind of a headache) then first I'd create an EXT4 filesystem, and then I'd convert that to BTRFS in situ. Then, if all else failed, I could revert to EXT4 at, er, the drop of a hat. Theoretically. -- 73, Ged. ___ BackupPC-users mailing list BackupPC-users@lists.sourceforge.net List:https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/backuppc-users Wiki:https://github.com/backuppc/backuppc/wiki Project: https://backuppc.github.io/backuppc/
