Re: Voodoo/Hamilton Willis
Dear Eric, Greetings from the land of the Wizards of Oz, where we don't have a problem as to whether Radionics or BD is voodoo or magic. We just get about our work and do what needs to be done. Voodoo is only another term for magic. It is mostly used by people who don't see the magic which is all around them . Into what category would you put the burial of horns into the soil over the winter. Radionics can more easily be understood from the world of physics and electromagnetism than BD can be understood, without moving into the realm of the occult. The occult is only another word for magic, of which voodoo is only one branch. The acid test is does what you do achieve what you set out to do. If the horn burial works by some sort of transferrence of energy, where do you define radionics which also works from a transferrence of energy. Is there not some mysterious transfer of energy from Rudolf Steiner to the people who follow his teachings some 80 years later? All transfer of energy, or action at a distance, cannot all be voodoo can it? The writer of a post to the list uses some sort of magical effect for another person to do what they want them to do. They want a reply. The magic is in the thought that goes in to the choice of words. People try to describe an object by the terms of reference that they understand, if a person describes something as voodoo it may be because that is the only part of the occult which they know. To those people radionics is voodoo. The use of that term only defines the person who uses it. Keep up the good work . The list has a bit of life into it again. Kind regards james Eric Myren wrote: I really do not see why you are all upset by the use of the word Voodoo to describe radionics. It is mearly a word used by the English language to describe something that they do not understand. Is anyone wondering why Hugh Lovel has been silent on this issue perhaps it is because he would agree that Radionics is like Voodoo. Or so he has been quoted as emailing to me off bdnow. As for the issue of others who have differing opinions of how BD works best or does not, I personally would love to hear opinions other than the ones most commonly expressed here. This should be a forum for open debate of the issues free of a negative light as expressed by those who view BDNOW as their personal stomping ground. PEACE please. Eric ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Re: radionics, voodoo, holy cards, and 3rd class relics
Unfortunately, none of the responses so far even attempted to answer the question. Are any of you conversant with these other uses of icons. Are they the same or if they are different, how so? Eric M pretty much made the point - whether one is personally sympathetic to Catholic belief or Voodoo surely makes no difference to how it works. Putting things in an unfamiliar light can seem threatening because your own assumptions can be challenged. But it can be really fruitful, it sharpens up your thinking. James H. Of course at some level everything is the same - radionics, birthday cakes, catholic holy cards, conventional agriculture, prayer, etc (just add whatever else comes to mind). Chris Korrow said the same. But things have by then lost any value in themselves, you can't meaningfully talk about separate things - it's all just energy. It is the manifestations that are really of interest - like actual individual people. -- Graeme Gerrard [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ BDNow mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] You can unsubscribe or change your options at: http://lists.envirolink.org/mailman/listinfo/bdnow
Response to Bob Shaffer: We're doin' fine
Dear Bob, To be fair to the readers, you should point out that (a) you and I are competitors and you have no interest in seeing me succeed at anything, (b) we never met each other and don't know each other, other than by name and reputation, (c) I have never criticized your work - I know only a little bit about your work (see below), (d) that Ralph Riva, V.P. at Wente in charge of their vineyards, told me that you were not an employee of Wente but were consulting with them at the time I worked with him there and I never saw or met you there, and (e) that the vineyard you mention at Wente was a 20 acre vineyard of Chardonnay where you had 10 acres to work on and I had the other 10 acres to work on. The two blocks were separated by a 30 foot roadway. We were in a competition created by Ralph to see which system was better - yours, which he called sustainable, or mine. After almost one year, in Ralph Riva's written evaluation of the two side-by-side blocks, he noted that our cover crop was more lush, despite the fact that it had been driven over several times more than yours and healthier than yours (this, he told me at the time was in response to your critique of our cover crop), our canopy was twice the size of yours, our grape clusters were twice the size, had twice as many grapes and had twice as many clusters as your side, and that the soil temperature in the winter was 2 degrees higher on our side when compared to your side which he said indicated a higher level of soil biotic activity than your side had, another indicator of better health. In short, according to Ralph, our side was a greater success than your 10 acre block, if it indeed was your block. We were brought in to teach Wente employees, not their consultants, our system as it was developing at the time and to show Ralph that our methods and products could save 80% or more of their Chardonnay vines that were dying from an infestation of Phylloxera. We were able to save about 80% of the vines, which Ralph can verify. Unfortunately, Wente sold off most of our side of this vineyard after we completed our work which was then turned into a housing project. The vineyard was planted in Chardonnay clone 2A which was one of the original Chardonnay clones planted in California. One of our jobs was to save enough of the vines so that they could take cuttings to graft into a new vineyard. One of the benefits of Steiner's remedies is that they bring out the best that a plant has to offer. So, according to Ralph, he was more easily able to pick the best vines for cuttings after he applied our sprays. I say our sprays because at the time, which is as I do now, I make my own Horn Humus, Horn Quartz and Horn Clay. At that time I used only the raw preparations. I did not have our current line of homeopathic sequential sprays. Ralph has samples of our current sprays. He told me he tested them with his radionic machine and they rated so high in Life Force Energy that they practically went off the scale. To date, although he personally supports my work, he has not continued with our program at Wente. He says there is resistance in upper management to do so. He says that some people have been saying very nasty things about me, although since he knows me personally and knows my work, he, personally, does not believe what he hears. Would you know anything about that? So, those are the facts about Wente. If you want to dispute them, I suggest you take it up with Ralph Riva. As far as wineries other than Topolos are concerned, we have a few such as Deerfield Ranch which produces a gold medal Merlot wine that Michael grows using our methods and products. But inasmuch as three years ago, I saw that our methods, products and system were evolving faster than I could keep up with them, I made a decision not to take on any more than one client a year until I worked out all the wrinkles. Over the years, we've had some good luck with some people, and bad luck with others. What I have learned is that our former system was too complicated and too far out for most people to understand. So I have spent the past 3 years working almost exclusively with Michael Topolos to refine, simplify and demystify our system. May I suggest that before you go through the litany of all the people you think hate me, you talk to Michael and actually go see his vineyards. Make an evaluation for yourself. Then get back to me. As of now, though, I stand by the statement that we, Michael Topolos and I, in terms of organic viticulture, disease eradication, increasing yields and quality and lowering costs, have accomplished more in viticulture than anyone alive today and I would be happy to go head to head with you or anyone else on any project you might have in mind. Maybe we could even learn from each other. I would be happy to have my methods and products evaluated by the best in the business. I am working on making connections with universities in several states
Re: Greg Willis - costs of preps
Ron This is THE question of the time I see in front of me. We have had a BDA fund, a full time consultant for 13 years 'selling' the traditional form of BD, and it has made next to no impact on the commercial effect of BD in the NZ economy, over the last 20 years. If anything it damaged the image and appreciation of BD in our general landowners minds. Do we sit by and wait for the world to collapse and then come in with our 'amish' ways or do we find a way that our benefits can be used now as part of the prevailing paradigm to help them move to a less damaging method? Already Integrated Pest management is heading growers towards us. Compost teas etc have bought organics next to being our twin. SO things are moving from all sides. Where can we move to meet them? In my experience I see, only when the farmers can see feel and experience a functioning alterative, backed by 3rd party research, will they move towards it. It has to be relevant, to their existing production system. At present, based on the evidence in front of me it appears trad BD is mostly relevant to third world, mortgage free and highly subsidies economies. There are many roads to the top of the hill and we all need to follow the one that appears best to us. The more the merrier. MAy all seekers for the development of BD have the dedication to their goals I see here in the strength and diversity of views. Do what youáll reckon is best for you, and marvel at your companions achievements, or find fuel through jealousy, whatever, just do your bit as you see fit. I know my developments work, I got official proof, so there is no going back no matter what anyone says. The mould has been broken, like it or not. BD is not what it was and it never will be again. Keep it were you want it for yourself, but I for one am moving forward with the reality I see in front of me and it does not look very Amish. cheers Glen BdMax distributors of ThermoMax -THE proven frost protection www.bdmax.co.nz - Original Message - From: ron poitras [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 5:53 AM Subject: Re: Greg Willis - costs of preps Do any of you think, for even one second, that anyone, anywhere, other than the few adherents to biodynamics, is going to stir horn manure and horn silica for an hour and spray it on their lands around the world? Let's look at the evidence objectively. It hasn't happened and in the present horse and buggy form, it will never happen. People want convenience and price. They don't want mumbo jumbo. People wanting price and convenience is a significant part of the problem. The culmination of this kind of thinking is the global economy. Price and convenience achieved for the few at an astronomical cost to the rest. Steiner talked about the farm as an organism. One reason was to convey the wholeness of nature and another was to help in defining the proper scale of an enterprise. Stirring horn manure and horn silica may be 'horse and buggy', but it accomplishes more than one thing. What one can stir and spray relates to the proper size. It also puts the farmers imprint and intention on what he's doing. Focusing on convenience means not having to think; focusing on price means a loss of context. -Original Message- From: Hamilton Willis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biodynamic Food and Farming Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thursday, July 10, 2003 1:43 PM Subject: Re: Greg Willis - costs of preps Dear Tobias, Gil, Roger, Mark and Graeme, Good. I got you all thinking. Some of your criticisms are absolutely justified and I will address them now and later. Others are not. The calculations in my little email need to be refined somewhat but in doing so, it will only go to prove my point that homeopathically diluted and potentized remedies are, no matter how you calculate it, less expensive to make, less expensive to use, in my experience, more effective to use and ultimately, the best way to get the most out of Steiner's remedies. I have to give credit to Glen Atkinson and Peter Bacchus who taught me the techniques for this method. Aside from the cost factors, you can get more than 100,000 units of homeopathic material out of one unit of raw material and the shelf life is years longer. I hasten to point out that in my calculations, I assumed, for the sake of that discussion, that it would take the same amount of time to stir and spray the raw preps as it would to pour and spray the homeopathic dilutions. This is false reasoning as it would take at least three times as long to do the raw preps. Nevertheless, who else has done these calculations? Who else has compared these costs? We need to drag biodynamics out of the horse and buggy era and into the 21st Century and we are not going to do it using the raw remedies and the hippie language, amateur antics and philosophy that so often invades
