Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland
Thank you Pat Long for pointing out all the ways that we can help the breed instead of hand wringing and moaning about doom and gloom! Many people have contributed time and effort to improve the lives and future of this breed - hats off to them for all they have done and continue to do! If you are concerned about the future of the breed then do something - there are many ways individuals can help - just ask Pat and she'll find a list of suggestions. Thanks again to Pat and people like her who are actually doing something productive for our Berners. - Ruth Nielsen, ZenMaster Max and the Winter-boy in Seattle, WA
RE: OT - Flying pets to Ireland
Hi Jennie, As you can see below Ireland has very strict quarantine laws that require at least six months quarantine. Although I believe you can now quarantine on your own premises, providing it meets with their specs. The dept of agriculture will send a vet to inspect that you have meet their requirements. On a side note I recently made inquires as to bringing a dog in from Switzerland and was told my best option to avoid quarantine was to avail of the pet passport scheme and go through England. There is at present free movement of pets between England and Ireland. In fact a good percentage at the larger shows here would be English. Tell your cousin to bring lot's of warm clothes and rain gear. Danny Buckley Castleconnell Ireland. Under the Importation of Dogs and Cats Order, 1929 - 1970, all dog and cats from places abroad (other than Great Britain, the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) must undergo a period of at least six months detention in approved quarantine premises on arrival here and be subject to one anti-rabies vaccination during quarantine. There are no derogations from the six-month quarantine period for any animal, regardless of the conditions under which the animal has been kept. There is only one approved public quarantine premises and this is: Lissenhall Quarantine Kennels and Catteries, Lissenhall, Swords, Co Dublin Telephone +353 1 840 1776 Fax: +353 1 840 9338 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 04 December 2002 02:52 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: OT - Flying pets to Ireland Hi Everyone- This is not Berner related... My cousin lives in Boston and is possibly moving to Ireland this year. She has an indoor only cat and would like to know the restrictions (if any) on entering the country. Also, does anyone know if there are restrictions for her to return to the US and bring the cat back with her next year? The cat is an adult, indoor only and current on all vaccines (FVRCP Rabies). Thanks for any info that is available! Jennie Hoffnagle Glenmoore, PA ** This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the system manager. This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept by MIMEsweeper for the presence of computer viruses. www.mimesweeper.com **
OT - Flying pets to Ireland
Hi Jennie, Pets coming into the UK have to travel under the Pets Travel Scheme (known as PETS) or go into 6 months quarantine. All the current vaccine/health cert requirements for the PETS can be found on http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/index.htm Hope that helps! Jude Simonds Coliburn Bernese, UK
Costs of Owning a Berner
Barbara, I put together a poster to display at the Philadelphia Dog Show about the costs of owning a berner, it's a list of normal first year costs, and a list of the costs of various genetic based problems that reputable breeders attempt to minimize, and a list of costs to breeders for testing breeding stock for those genetic based problems. It was an easy poster to put together, it was carefully read by almost everyone who passed by (which really REALLY surprised me), and I think it was very effective. For those of you who would like something similar to display at events, I have a word document version of the poster, along with a jpg file of the finished product. You can put it together yourself with a glue stick, or I can do it for you for a donation to BLEF. Pat Long ( Luther) Berwyn PA
French Dog Food
Lisa, Here in Europe they have some very high quality dog foods. Certainly there is more variety (or at least it is easier to find variety), bags of dried veggie flakes, dried egg flakes, and a wide assortment of kibbles and canned foods. I'm not sure how wide-spread BARF is in France, but judging by the looks I get when I ask my butcher to getbulk quantities of chicken necks, or natural (unbleached) tripe, I would say it is still fairly uncommon. Nevertheless, there are two beautiful Berners who are walking advertisements for BARF. When people ask me what I feedmy dogsthey get a lot more information than they expected, especially if they are dog owners themselves. Tim (self-appointed BARF Ambassador to France) Christl (long-suffering veggie grinder) and Gandalf Holly (sleek andshiny examples of solid nutrition) Chateau Bernois Nimes, FranceMSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
Re: Swiss saying
I have a version of the Swiss saying that was given to me by a Swiss person with one more important part. Three years a young dog, three years a good dog, three years an old dog and three years a gift from God. So having Berners living to 11, 12 is very possible, it is also a special gift. In our house we call them bonus years. Kathy Orla in Ottawa enjoying bonus time
RE: . . .becoming rare breed
I must say that I entered this Berner world with perhaps my eyes and ears shut. When I purchased my beautiful boy in March of this year I had no idea about all of the problems and health issues associated with this breed. I wholeheartedly admit that I was hypnotized and absolutely smitten when I saw these gorgeous puppies. I really had no intention of buying a pup as I already had 3 dogs of my own. Stevie picked me out and it was love at first site. I ended up going back 4 times to see him, each time thinking that he wouldnt be there. He had been spoken for in a matter of sorts but the people who were going to purchase two of them decided not to take him. He was so quiet and laid back for a puppy. After bringing him home and the many many interrupted nights of toileting and so forth, I figured that that was a very small price to pay for the absolute love and devotion that I felt for this dog. We had a scare after only a week and a half of him being home when I was assisting my dear friend move somethings out of an upstairs apartment (at the farm where I board my horse). Stevie woke up from his slumber and came out on the deck, we were down below loading the truck, his loyalty to me was apparent even then. He panicked when he realized that I was away from him and stepped off of the deck! He fell almost 20 feet to the ground. I was paralyzed. Now I am a nurse who is very used to trauma and such but when I watched what seemed like a horror movie unfold in front of me I couldnt move. Stevie couldnt breathe, and of course I feared the worst. He was rushed to the vet but was just fine, only winded.I could not believe that I reacted that way. Then this summer, another scare. Stevie was lame. OCD was floated around for a diagnosis. But after 6 weeks of crate rest and some Bufferin he was fine. But no playing with anything bigger than he is. (His best friend is a Dane puppy!!) He has been wonderful since. But now I am scared to death that he will circum to some of the atrocities associated with this breed, and truthfully, I would not sure how I would be able to spend thousands and thousands of dollars on him. The question is now insurance. Is it difficult to obtain insurance on Berners?? And secondly, is there a ceiling cap on the amount spent for an illness or a lifetime total amount? For now I will pray every day for his safe keeping and hope that we will be lucky. He is the love of my life right now and I could not even imagine going through some of the heartaches that I have read on these pages. (ie: Hesse,Sam,Moses etc). To all those who have these health issues, I salute you for your faith and love for your beautiful Berners. I am so very glad to have joined such a caring and thoughtful group of individuals.It makes me very proud to be associated with you all!! Thanks for listening, Karen McFarlane, NB, Canada. -Original Message- From: Barbara Flook [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 10:23 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: . . .becoming rare breed
How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain)
I've reached the cynical point in this breed that we are beyond saving it. The BMDCA has it's own agenda which seems to be one of placating the large breeder (no code of ethics yet that could possibly require anything of substance from it's membership) and holding dog shows. The grass roots efforts of others are only a small finger in the dyke and all around backyard breeders and commercial breeders are growing in numbers. The number of unknown breeders grows with every unspayed female placed in a pet home. For every person we educate 10 others buy that puppy in the window. It's true we can only continue to try however in the end the breed itself will save itself. The questionably bred questionably sold pets that turn up in backyards, shelters, vet clinics and rescue programs that are of poor health and temperament will save the breed. As the reputation of the breed changes from one of good with kids to one of shy and sickly fewer people will want to buy puppies. As the commercial breeders start having the same breeding and whelping problems the rest of us have faced they will find it not so profitable to care for these dogs and as the price goes down on the pups find a new up and coming breed to exploit. While I don't mean to moan and groan (I am rescue coordinator for the Lone Star club and help with education down here) I like Lisa see things getting worse - but in the end the breed will save itself. I only hope that there are at least a core of breeders choosing to maintain strict controls and keep bloodlines that in the end can be worked with in a responsible way once the fad ends Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
2003 Berner Calendar
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Re:2003 Berner Calendar
There are several Berner calendars -- Pet Prints sell one that Bernd Gunter does (VERY nice photographs) Brown Trout sells a BMD calendar. Lone Star BMDC is selling one they produced using unusually marked BMD's, it's called the Signature Calendar the profits are going to Light One Candle -- the lobbying effort group. Contact Ann Landeros for ordering information $20 + S/H [EMAIL PROTECTED] Pat Tackett Texas -- Did I miss the announcement on these? How do I go about getting the new 2003 Berner Calendar? Thanks - Terri, Greg Dharma
I think that I did it again!!
I sent an entry this morning or at least I think that I did. Why am I having such a problem with sending things. Pat, could you please let me know if you received it. The gist of my epistle was about the many health issues concerning Berners. If you did not receive it I would like to resend it. Please let me know. Thanks, Karen McFarlane -Original Message-
Re: Dewclaws
In a message dated 12/4/2002 9:32:01 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Do breeders usually have their BMD pups due claws removed? In the US, responsible breeders have rear dewclaws removed when pups are a day or two old. Front dews may be either left intact or removed depending on the breeder's preference. Backyard (ie: unknowledgeable) -breeders and puppy mill producers frequently leave them all on. -Sherri Venditti
Re: dewclaws
- Original Message - From: Hicks, Jackie [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 8:30 AM Do breeders usually have their BMD pups due claws removed? According to the breed standard rear dewclaws should be removed. According to the breed standard fore dewclaws may be removed. Dewclaw removal should be done at or shortly after birth as this digit amputation is painful. All BMD breeders I work with have had the rear dewclaws removed before I obtained my pups from them. Most of the dogs I've purchased have had their fore dewclaws in tact. I do not remove the fore dewclaws on pups I sell. Some breeders do. Ruth Reynolds Pioneer Bernese Greenwood FL www.jersey.net/~mountaindog/rar
pet insurance
I was wondering if anyone can tell of their experiences with pet insurance: the realities vs the myths.Cancers covered/not covered.etc. Thanks, Debbie Hennes
Re: How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain)
In a message dated 12/4/2002 8:41:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I only hope that there are at least a core of breeders choosing to maintain strict controls and keep bloodlines that in the end can be worked with in a responsible way once the fad ends Can you elaborate on that Susan...I'm not sure exactly what you mean by bloodlines. My sense is that the term can only be applied to, MAYBE (3) kennels in the US ...and those are the folks involved in lots of litters/year. It's those bazillion litters to pick from, stud fee puppies, and puppies back on full reg bitches...and close line breeding...that creates a bloodline (ie: will breed true), not the 1-2 litters/year breeding program. No? -Sherri V.
Re: dewclaws
I remove rear dewclaws only. The front ones seems to actually serve a function, especially for performance dogs. My vet comes to our home when the puppies are 2-3 days old to remove dewclaws. She numbs the area first and the tiny injection was not problematic for the puppies. Although some objected to being held, the removal of the dewclaws after being numbed did not seemed to bother the puppies. The tiny incision was superglued and that was that. Later that day they moaned a bit as I am sure they were sore, but none of the puppies slowed their weight gain so I suspect it was not terribly traumatic (I only had six of ten with rear dewclaws so could compare the two groups in terms of weight gained). However, I would never have dewclaws removed without numbing the area first. It is a surgical procedure, as Ruth indicated, and anything that can be done to make it easier seems important to do. My vet came out yesterday to do check-ups on the ten-pack and to give their first vaccination -- single dose parvo. She observed that none of them were afraid or nervous, as if nothing bad had ever happened to them in their lives. What a wonderful thing to say and hear about a litter of puppies -- all puppies should be so lucky. Mary-Ann Bowman Utah Emma, Abra, Maize and the ten-pack
Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland:becoming rare breed
Lisa How can we possibly expect to improve health in the breed if over 2000 per year are bred in the USA alone, and these are ONLY the Berner pups registered with the AKC! and, more cryptically: With a population of Berners, regardless of source, exploding, perhaps an understatement, and with, in the USA, no rules to prevent anybody and his brother from breeding 'em, folks, there is going to be a flood of Berners needlessly euthanized or abandoned because people will not or cannot spend the money to ascertain the dog' wellness. I feel so strongly that this has or will become the breed's reality that I shall even say that those pondering this weighty problem would do well to mark my words! Please don't see this as a personal affront, as it TRULY is not intended as such, but what, please, is the PRECISE point that you are trying to make in your rather pessimistic message? I'm sure there IS a point, but it completely eludes me. Are you saying that people should stop breeding Berners? Are you saying that people should stop buying Berners? Are you saying there are too many Berners? Or are you saying that only the wealthy should even remotely contemplate buying a Berner, because they can become ill and veterinary treatment is expensive? Whilst the latter is true, it surely doesn't exclusively pertain to Berners? ALL dogs, purebred and crossbred, can and DO get ill. I know plenty of crossbreeds who seem to spend more time at the vet's surgery than out of it. I know purebreeds who never see the vet and live to a right old age. And vice versa. Speaking strictly for myself, my two Berners see the vet an awful lot - BECAUSE THEY HAVE A VERY, VERY CONCERNED OWNER. Me. It's me who insists that the dogs are seen that often becuase I worry about every skin tag, cough, wart, limp, whatever. It's not because they are that frail. Most limps and warts and sneezes dissapear without any interference. If I adopted a more fatalistic outlook and only brought my dogs to the vet when they are extemely ill, I would virtually have no vet expenses. But I don't. Because I just...well, want to protect them. Hopefully. Somehow. And this approach is probably true for a lot of owners who have horrendous vet expenses. But this attitudide is certainly not unique to Bernese, nor their owners? Summa, summaris : if you want to keep your money and your heart without bruises, don't have a pet. Any pet. Or have one and adopt a survival of the fittest approach. I'd love to do the former and I'll never be able to subscribe to the latter, thus I bid a cheery bye-bye to my money and my heart. Because I could not fathom life without my boys. Even if their life should be a short one. An expensive one. Could you imagine life without any of yours? I want MORE people to breed Berners, more people to share their life with them. Berners make you happy. And I'd love to be surrounded by as many happy people as possible. Wouldn't you? Be well Michaela, Harvey Rupert Devon/UK
Wingfield's American Pi 7/8/98 - 12/04/02
posted in plain text for Cathie: I just received a very sad phone call from my dear friend, Laura Peschke of Cleveland, Ohio. Laura has been the proud keeper of my first born pup, Wingfield's American Pi aka Pi. Pi was due to come into this world on the 4th of July, hence the name. (Although he decided not to come out until July 8th by C-section--singleton pup!) It is with the saddest of hearts that I must say he was assisted to the Bridge this morning after a week-long illness. Actually the illness must have been going on much longer than this, but as we all know how stoic our beloved breed is, Pi just started showing symptoms a week ago. He no longer had it in him to try to 'fight' any longer. He was unable to move today and went into repiratory distress. He went to join his Mother, Wingfield's Barakah v Sunnybrook, who passed away just last November, 2001 due to Lyme's Nephritis. They were a wonderful pair! The diagnosis for Pi was hemophagocytic histiocytosis. I need to go do some research now...thru the tears. I think although Laura is not a member of the 'l', if anyone feels they could share some comforting thoughts with her, she would truly appreciate it. Anyone who has had any experience with this dreaded cancer could gladly contact me and help me in my search for information. My email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] (This very sad news comes two days after the birth of Wingfield's C litter, and lessens that joy.) Laura's email is [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hug those furkins! Thank you, Cathie Shipe Wingfield Farm Bernville, Pennsylvania http://wingfieldfarm.homestead.com Check any e-mail over the Web for free at MailBreeze (http://www.mailbreeze.com)
OT - flying pets to ireland
I just asked my British friend, she says Ireland (NOT NORTHERN) does NOT have quarantine!! So, presuming your cousin is moving to Ireland, and not Northern Ireland ... It may be easy. If she is going to N. Ireland, then quarantine comes into play. Pet passport is supposed to be open for N. America now -- which means she'd need proof of rabies, and a blood test that is 6 months old proving the animal has the antibodies for rabies. Here's the URL for the UK (which doesn't include (Northern) Ireland--but may be helpful depending on her situation. http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/ Best of luck!! Tracey From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 21:51:35 EST Subject: OT - Flying pets to Ireland To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Everyone- This is not Berner related... My cousin lives in Boston and is possibly moving to Ireland this year. She has an indoor only cat and would like to know the restrictions (if any) on entering the country. Also, does anyone know if there are restrictions for her to return to the US and bring the cat back with her next year? The cat is an adult, indoor only and current on all vaccines (FVRCP Rabies). Thanks for any info that is available! Jennie Hoffnagle Glenmoore, PA
Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland:becoming rare breed
Michaela, I think that Lisa's point is primarily that no one who loves Berneses, warts and all (literally and figuratively), wants to see the breed go the way of the Dalmation, the Rottweiler, or even the Golden...bred in numbers to meet perceived demand, often bought up by people who saw the movie but may be ill prepared to deal with the realities of health or temperament. There are always going to be unintentionally bred mutt puppies up for adoption, but it seems particularly sad to walk down the rows of cages in the humane shelter, filled with Dalmations a year after 101 Dalmations or Rottweilers because they happened to be the dog du jour until unwitting owners realized they could be a lot to handle... It's true that we want to share and champion what we love, so we show off our wonderful dogs as someone might their children, knowing all the while the sleepness nights, trips to the pediatrician, and how darn expensive they can be. Just as not everyone is cut out to be a parent, not everyone is prepared to face the realities and commitment of loving and caring for a dog, whatever its breed. I personally think the current relatively high demand for BMDs will peak and wane, as people become aware of their relatively short life span and proclivity for health problems...fewer repeat owners, not as many buying what they see their neighbors have, etcthen maybe it will be back to a core group of dedicated breeders and owners with a firmly entrenched love for this particularly endearing companion. Probably all these issues have been faced by other popular breeds through time... Anne Henoch Cranford, NJ with Maddie and Titan
Re: Papers for flying
Be sure to ask if the cargo bay is pressurized (w/air heat) if the pup has to fly down there. I got one idiot who booked a flight to WI for the Nat'l for Tobin I. The next day, I called back to get one more question answered, got a different guy found out the previous guy didn't have a clue!!! He had booked me on a plane that did not have a pressurized cargo bay!! The next day I called again got a 3rd person I double checked the plane had a pressurized cargo bay!!! I doubt they would've taken Tobin on the plane when I got to the airport, but at best, I wouldn't have had a flight to WI.We can't assume everyone knows what they're doing when it comes to our beloved dogs!! Elke wrote: All you need is a Healthcertificate not older than 10 days. No proof of Rabies Vaccine is needed since the dog is still too young. Check with the airlines if they do except dogs. Kathy Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Windraider Kennels California www.windraiderkennels.com Bernese Mtn Dogs - Int Am BIS Can CH Windraider's Black Oak v Bevs , HIT, CGC, TDI Tobin Windraider's Manjula v Bev's Jul Windraider's Seven Seas Briggand Briggand 8 mo Windraider's Black Oak Conspiracy Brenna mo Flat Coated Retv - Int Am CH Twofold Samba Sam, CGC, TDI Sam (liver-DK imp) Pembroke W. Corgi - Annline's Extra Well Done Miles (FI imp) r/w 14 mo Labs Eskie - Scout, Babe Klondike
Re: Canadian Shows
Hi Jennifer Everyone, Here is a great link to dog show information. If you click on conformation it will explain dog shows, how to get started showing etc. There is a link for dog show superintendants, (including Western Dog Shows, which handles the Canadian shows) AKC, CKC, Obedience, herding etc. It is really a link to bookmark. : ) http://www.dogpatch.org/dogs/shows.cfm#A14 Here is the link to Western Dog Shows if you don't wish to view the others. http://www.westerndogshows.com/ Best wishes, Mary Jeff Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snobear.freeyellow.com
Winter skin??
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Re: dewclaws
- Original Message - From: Ruth Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] Do breeders usually have their BMD pups due claws removed? According to the breed standard rear dewclaws should be removed. Aahh, but for the sake of those who have never looked at the dewclaws on newborn puppies - Do you remove only the rear dewclaws that occasionally show up between the foot and hock, loosely attached by skin, or are you talking about those boned-in dewclaws, that appear to be extra toes? I have asked this question of two different people whom I accept to be leading experts on the breed, and got two different answers. On my last litter, I did not remove the boned-in ones, much to my vet's relief (he hates doing it!). No one, so far, has noticed. Pauline Merrick Brimfield, MA USA
Re: Canadian Shows
Hi Jennifer and all, Here is the other info. you requested: In Canada you are not required to have two wins of major points in order to gain his/her Championship. Your dog has to win a total of 10 points. The number of dogs/bitches your dog wins over decides the number of points each win earns. In an AKC Championship a major win is a win which gives you three, four, or five points. The points are determined by the number of dogs your dog wins over. In order to gain an AKC Championship on your dog you must have gained 15 points which must include 2 major wins. You can have all majors and count the points to 15, but at a minimum you must have earned at least 2 major wins which would be at least 6 points, the other points can be gathered 1,2,3,4, or 5 at a time to total 15 points. The major wins must be under two different judges. Back to Canadian Shows Championships: How many points do I need to earn a Conformation Championship title? Conformation championship points are awarded at Conformation Shows. Your dog must earn at least 10 points under at least three judges to become a Conformation Champion and must also be individually registered with the CKC or have an Event Registration Number. How do I obtain an Event Registration Number? Every foreign born and owned dog that is entered in a Canadian Kennel Club event must obtain an Event Registration Number (ERN) within 30 days of that event. An Event Registration Number Application must be completed and submitted along with a copy of registration documents from a CKC recognized foreign kennel club and the required fee. Click here to download the Event Registration Number Application http://www.ckc.ca/forms/pdf/150-14-50.pdf or contact the CKC Order Desk at 1.800.250.8040. Click here for Shows Trials Fees. http://www.ckc.ca/member/fees/shows_trials-results.asp How do I enter my dog in an event? You can find a list of events on the CKC website, in the Calendar of Shows and Trials Events. To enter your dog in an event, you must submit an entry form along with the required fees to the Event Secretary. The entry form can be obtained from the Event Secretary, whose name and contact details are found under the event in the Calendar of Shows Trials Events. Click here to go to the Calendar of Shows and Trials Events. http://www.ckc.ca/default-refresh.asp What are the rules to cross the Canadian border with my dog? For information regarding dogs crossing the Canadian border, please contact Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada, Canadian Food Inspection Agency at (613) 225 2342 or visit their web site at www.inspection.gc.ca Note: If a dog is under three months of age when crossing the border, proof of age is required. If the dog is over three months of age, a valid rabies vaccination certificate and proof of age is required. Hope this helps you! Bernerly, Mary Jeff Mary Chapdelaine SnoBear Berners [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://snobear.freeyellow.com
Re: BERNER-L digest 4159
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Need info on dog car ramp.
When we brought Skyland's Pralines in Cream into our home in 1993. We bought a 1992 left over van, we always called it Pralines van. And any time someone ask how much does it cost to keep a Berner we always include the price of the van. Well I am glad to announce that the van died this week and Praline is still going strong. We bought her a new Ford Expedition. I am wondering if anyone can recommend a car ramp that they are happy with. Thanks. Dean Scott Kutztown, Pa.
Re: How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 09:58:49 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Can you elaborate on that Susan...I'm not sure exactly what you mean by bloodlines. Sherri I agree the term was used incorrectly (excuse that 5am composition). I think what I should have said to be more exact is that there are at least a core of breeders choosing to maintain strict controls and keep pedigrees that in the end can be worked with in a responsible way once the fad ends Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: dewclaws
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 08:02:23 -0700 Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ..The front ones seems to actually serve a function, especially for performance dogs. I have heard this several times. It has been awhile since I've done any performance work and it was limited to obedience (Granville had his UD) and tracking (Martin had his TD). I never noticed how the dewclaws would have helped in either of these venues. Could you please explain ? Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Nose to Nose
I think a couple of sources were mentioned earlier (Boris's Books website, and ??? -- sorry, my Sometimer's Disease is acting up today). I got mine directly from Barry Schieber, the author, at [EMAIL PROTECTED] If you order 15 at one time, the total cost (including shipping) is only $10.15 per book, signed and pawtographed by Barry and Moritz. Every Berner owner will love this book, particularly if you're interested in or involved with doing pet therapy work. Vicky Whitney Bozeman, Montana _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: dewclaws
Hi Happy to provide info :) A discussion of the dog's foot would not be complete without mention of the dew claws. In most dogs, the dew claws are attached to the bones of the pastern by a joint. When dogs canter or gallop there is one moment when a single front leg remains on the ground, bearing the dog's full weight. At that point, even in the lightest dogs, the pastern is flat on the ground and the carpal pad is cushioning the carpal joint as it hits the ground. At that moment, the dew claw is in contact with the ground and can catch the ground as the dog rotates its leg on turning. This allows the dog to take full advantage of the ability of the front leg to rotate in its axis. Some people who compete with sighthounds in lure-coursing have observed an increased incidence of front leg and foot injures in dogs who have had their dew claws removed. For this reason, some people prefer not to have their puppies dew claws removed. They prefer to give their performance dogs the advantage of a functional dew claw and risk possible injury to the dew claw that might necessitate its removal later in life. (Zink, C. and Daniels, J. (1996). Jumping from A to Z. Lutherville, MD: Canine Sports Productions.) Mary-Ann Bowman
Re: More How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain)
On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 10:18:39 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I'm as frustrated as you with much of the BMDCA...but I can't point a finger at the club per se, nor the leadership. Nor can I point a finger at the large breeders, simply because I truly don't know how they feel about the various proposals that have been offered for commentthey tend to be a quiet group as far as public forums goes. I'll explain my point of view a bit. The reason the finger pointing to the club is that while much has been done by the board, (thank you board), the hard core issues have remained hanging. When efforts to devise a breeder referral program were started the board took over the task and rewrote it as they saw fit and then asked for feedback. Surprise but the whole thing has now been bogged down in opinion, debate and rhetoric. When a code failed to meet the board's approval it was rewritten by the board, then feedback was asked for and again not surprisingly the whole mess got bogged down. No 2 members can agree on what is responsible, what the BMDCA should stand for or what breeders should do to be responsible. Since the board is going to rewrite and has to approve of anything given to the membership to vote on, perhaps if they quit asking for opinion and just gave the members something to vote on we might end up with a new code and a BRP. Having just said all of that, I do think most breeders and stud owners are already doing most of what we should see in a code of conduct. I think there are exceptions to all rules and to point the finger at large breeders (hell, that's another definition I doubt we would agree on) may be incorrect. I do think the board wants to keep from offending or chasing any breeders off by requiring anything of substance from them. God forbid we should demand our breeders wait til their bitches and stud dogs are mature prior to breeding and that we actually state what that maturity age should be. Or that we require stud dog owners to be equally responsible for puppies out of their stud dog owners. Or that we require all breeding dogs to be DNA tested. Or that we require all dogs prior to breeding to have been OFA'd (not prelims either). That we require CERF and other appropriate testing. No I guess it's not just the large breeders who would be upset by this. I put the responsibility squarely on the shoulders of the overwhelming majority of the membership who are either playing ostrich, defensive lineman, or being just plain unconcerned about anything outside their backyard. Well I do know that you can only hit your head against a brick wall (or should I say a board) so long and then you just don't care. I've reached that point and think others have too. The membership may not have an opinion. I do know that some of us who have had ideas and opinions which may not be reflective of the board's vision of the BMDCA (whatever that is) have pretty much been silenced. Personally, you can count me in on the I don't give a blank anymore. The BMDCA and board will do what they want. Whether this is true or not it is the way I have been left to feel about the BMDCA. I do not feel like I have sat back and taken pot shots. I made an effort, it was totally rejected, I felt frustration and disgust at what was offered as a compromise and so have nothing more to offer since this would seem to be the direction the club wishes to take. Until I see something of substance I will criticize this club Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara
Re: dewclaws
Thank you Mary Ann. I guess the only time my dogs cantered or galloped was when they took the jumps and they did not seem affected by the lack of dewclaw. I am curious how horses function as the movement you describe is very easily seen in the galloping and cantoring horse although I always thought that the idea of good pasterns was to keep the carpal joint from actually making contact with the ground. Horses do not have dewclaws as we know and were bred to run, unlike our Bernese. Ideas :) Susan Ablon Gweebarra BMD Balch Springs, Tx http://www.pageweb.com/gwebara On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:59:44 -0700 Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hi Happy to provide info :) A discussion of the dog's foot would not be complete without mention of the dew claws. In most dogs, the dew claws are attached to the bones of the pastern by a joint. When dogs canter or gallop there is one moment when a single front leg remains on the ground, bearing the dog's full weight. At that point, even in the lightest dogs, the pastern is flat on the ground and the carpal pad is cushioning the carpal joint as it hits the ground. At that moment, the dew claw is in contact with the ground and can catch the ground as the dog rotates its leg on turning. This allows the dog to take full advantage of the ability of the front leg to rotate in its axis. Some people who compete with sighthounds in lure-coursing have observed an increased incidence of front leg and foot injures in dogs who have had their dew claws removed. For this reason, some people prefer not to have their puppies dew claws removed. They prefer to give their performance dogs the advantage of a functional dew claw and risk possible injury to the dew claw that might necessitate its removal later in life. (Zink, C. and Daniels, J. (1996). Jumping from A to Z. Lutherville, MD: Canine Sports Productions.) Mary-Ann Bowman
Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland
Hi Emma, If I can help you, do not hesitate to use my private address mail ;-) Can you say to me in private which is the French breeder about whom you talk and which were problems ? Corinne, (speaking perfect french but bad english ;-) ) Phlibust Wonda Near Paris (France) http://PassionsBB.free.fr - Original Message - From: Emma Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:56 AM Subject: Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland Good to see so much positive energy. On our first berner and deep in love we tell eveyone who asks not to get from our 'breeder' (whom we now know has at least 12 litters a year, but we didn't know before). To only buy from someone on the national assoc list, to check for health in the past - not easy when neither of us speak perfect french, but we can do our bit. Emma and tatty, France
More How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain)
ORIGINAL POST: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] I'm as frustrated as you with much of the BMDCA...but I can't point a finger t the club per se, nor the leadership. Nor can I point a finger at the large breeders, simply because I truly don't know how they feel about the various proposals that have been offered for commentthey tend to be a quiet group as far as public forums goes. I put the responsibilty squarely on the shoulders of the overwhelming majority of the membership who are either playing ostrich, defensive lineman, or being just plain unconcerned about anything outside their backyard. I think the Board has taken on a lot of big issues in the past year or two and tried to address them in a well thought out, rational and reasonable, manner. What makes me cynical is the overwhelming majority of the membership that just sits back and waits for the ducks (programs decisions) to roll by so they can take potshots at them. A detailed Breeder Referral Program or COE can be rolled out after months/years of work and many people just look for things to dislike about it and throw it out the window. It would be so much more constructive to say, Well...I like A B, but I don't think C is practical because., how about replacing it with D to acheive a similar effect. or I'm not in favor of that approach, this is the model I prefer because... -Sherri Venditti RESPONSE: Okay, Sherri -- as a fairly new member to BMDCA (1 year?) and Berners in general (4 years) -- what can I do? Maybe I'm not signed on to the right list, or missing something, but I don't feel like I have much opportunity to give input into BMDCA. I agree completely what what you've said, and I may be part of the problem as I'm not responding to, commenting on, approving of, or criticizing anything the BMDCA is doing. How do rank and file members like me become more involved, and become part of the solution? While we're on it, I'd like to ask a question that's been bugging me for a while. I think it's the national German Shepard Dog club that does this, but there is some kind of club certification for GSDs who meet special criteria, which we all seem to agree is important to breeding programs. When you consider a litter from a sire and dam who both have this certification, much of the research has already been done. To apply to Berners, the BMDCA could certify that a particular dog had met the following criteria: OFA/GDC good or excellent hips; OFA/GDC clear elbows; minimum PennHIP clearance; CERF; heart, VonW., thyroid, DNA, etc. There could be some sort of grid where records for similar clearances on sire and dam's siblings, parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles, and so forth. Factored into this grid would be records of current age, age at death and cause of death, known diseases or health problems, championships, working titles, etc. The computer would whir, calculating the knowns and unknowns, and spit out a score or rating. Those dogs providing a minimum of verified information, and meeting clearly-specified minimum criteria, would then be awarded this special certification. (I'm new, and may not have used the best examples, so please don't get your blowtorches out!) I think this is somewhat similar to what some of the European clubs do, isn't it, when they set specific breeding criteria and allow or disallow registration of puppies within their BMD clubs? While there are a great many unknowns (and rumors and secrets) in all the lines, I know for a fact that there are a number of conscientious breeders out there who have gone to a lot of trouble to ferret out, verify, and document everything they can about dogs in their lines, for several generations back. I've seen it, I've talked with them, and I commend them. If the BMDCA recognized this kind of dedication by awarding these dogs this kind of honor or certification, I think that would not only be helpful to PPOs, but to all Berner lovers, breeders, and owners. If a certification system already exists somewhere, couldn't the BMDCA look into tweaking and adopting it? Is this a severely-beaten horse I've just jumped on here? Is something like this being considered by the BMDCA and I just haven't heard anything about it? Which takes me back to my original question as to how rank and file BMDCA members can learn about what's going on and help. Vicky Whitney Bozeman, Montana _ Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Nails. Is wear a sign of use?
I rarely have to trim toenails on my dogs including dewclaw nails. I always figured the dogs wear the regular nails down through their daily exercise. Dogs who are not as active or who have gross conformational flaws have nails that need more attention at my house. Maybe they DO wear down the dewclaw nails through use. Ruth Reynolds
Re: MY ERROR re: swiss saying
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Re: Papers for flying
Hi Kathryn, Thanks for your response to my question re. flying pups. I am planning to take the 8 week old pup in a Sherpa bag under my seat, I'm not going in the cargo hold pressurized or not! : ) Mary-Ann I have already made the necessary arrangements. Sharon Greenberg - Original Message - From: Kathryn Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Berner-l [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 10:43 AM Subject: Re: Papers for flying Be sure to ask if the cargo bay is pressurized (w/air heat) if the pup has to fly down there. I got one idiot who booked a flight to WI for the Nat'l for Tobin I. The next day, I called back to get one more question answered, got a different guy found out the previous guy didn't have a clue!!! He had booked me on a plane that did not have a pressurized cargo bay!! The next day I called again got a 3rd person I double checked the plane had a pressurized cargo bay!!! I doubt they would've taken Tobin on the plane when I got to the airport, but at best, I wouldn't have had a flight to WI.We can't assume everyone knows what they're doing when it comes to our beloved dogs!! Elke wrote: All you need is a Healthcertificate not older than 10 days. No proof of Rabies Vaccine is needed since the dog is still too young. Check with the airlines if they do except dogs. Kathy Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Windraider Kennels California www.windraiderkennels.com Bernese Mtn Dogs - Int Am BIS Can CH Windraider's Black Oak v Bevs , HIT, CGC, TDI Tobin Windraider's Manjula v Bev's Jul Windraider's Seven Seas Briggand Briggand 8 mo Windraider's Black Oak Conspiracy Brenna mo Flat Coated Retv - Int Am CH Twofold Samba Sam, CGC, TDI Sam (liver-DK imp) Pembroke W. Corgi - Annline's Extra Well Done Miles (FI imp) r/w 14 mo Labs Eskie - Scout, Babe Klondike
Need info on dog car ramp
Hi Dean, I actually have _both_ of the popular dog ramps, so I can tell you the pros/cons of each. I first bought the Petstep when at about 8 1/2 years of age, Crombie (who weighed about 105-110) began to have trouble leaping into the back of my Landcruiser on occassion (the tailgate is 31 high). He was always a proud guy, and would not accept help with his rear end being lifted (if I even could!). I chose the petstep because it was lighter weight, and it folds in half, thus taking up less space in the car. It is made out of a molded plastic, so it can get wet without damage. About a year later, when Crombie was diagnosed w/cancer, and had a 'paraneoplastic syndrome' which caused his rear to weaken, I found he had trouble making it up the petstep. My friends had in the meantime purchased the Dogramp, and no longer needed it since they had also ended up buying a VW Vanagon for the dogs. I bought the Dogramp from them, and Crombie was able to use it until his death 7 months later. The Dogramp is a bit wider (not important to me), is longer, thus less steep, and is carpeted (my husband did end up gluing carpet to the Petstep). It is 'telescoping, so is pretty easy to use. I now have an old Rescue Berner who uses the Dogramp to get in/out of my car at the street in front of the house, and I use the Petstep to let the other dogs out of the car in the garage. I have heard that they've redesigned the Dogramp and it now weighs less and is less bulky. If I only had one ramp, I would probably go with the Dogramp. Both are available on-line: www.petstep.com and www.dogramp.com More info than you probably needed! Jennifer Zaayer and crew in Cardiff by-the-Sea, CA
More dewclaws questions
Mary-Ann wrote I remove rear dewclaws only. Why are rear dewclaws removed? Is it solely to conform to the breed standard? Or is there another reason why rear dewclaw should be removed? My younger Berner has a full set of dewclaws ( front and rear) and the nails of the hind dewclaws are a pain. They need constant attention since they grow furiously. Personally, I think rear dewclaws look a bit strange ( mabey because my other Berner hasn't got them?) but other than that, they don't seem to bother my dog. If I recall correctly, his breeder decided against removal because her first litter experieced great pain from the procedure and she wanted to spare the second litter the trauma. TIA for any info Michaela Devon/UK
The Eyes Have It!
Some of the ways to get the dog back up on the top of the mountain, roaming about the farm, would be to appoint breed wardens (I would like these to be no-nonsense kind of gals like Mary Alice, Debby Mulvey, and Esther Mueller (excuse spellings), rules that allow no leniency such as you may not breed a bitch before age two years and, should anyone think I am picking on breeders, home inspections required for every potential owner of a new pup and also required in other circumstances as well, and stringent requirements for health, temperament, conformation, etc. before breeding and only allowing a dog or bitch so many pups. It is a discouraging and disheartening given that this will not happen in the USA. If the breed continues, I feel in my heart, on its present course, it MIGHT face near extinction, perhaps not in our lifetimes but, as it becomes more frail and shy and unhealthy due to a population grown beyond control and less reputable breeders outnumbering the conscientious breeders, there might be an overwhelming failure to thrive among these most noble of dogs driving either a small group of fanciers to pick up the pieces and try to rebuild or, even these most dedicated of dog people to contemplate giving up as the task will be so monumental and they can not ascertain that others will be eager to carry on their work. Too, a mindset should be adopted that each life is so sacred and so worthy of consideration that the most stringent of considerations must be adopted before any breeding occurs so that the lives created have a good chance of thriving. But, on to other topics that do not involve speculation. Folks, if your dog's eyes are runny and do not seem right, please, take your Berner to your vet. and perhaps get a referral to an eye specialist. My Yoda (1992-2002) had runny eyes from the beginning and required multiple surgeries to correct entropian. There are eye conditions that can result in blindness if left untreated so let the doctors have a look! Lisa Allen _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
CVBMDC is hosting a carting workshop
The Chattahoochee Valley Bernese Mountain Dog Club is hosting a carting workshop near Greenville, SC January 11, 2003. You can visit www.cvbmdc.org/newsletter.html for more information, but please don't laugh. Our website is in the baby stages. Contact me with your name and address and I will send you a flyer and enrollment form. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: age for carting
Andrea, I start all my pups at 7-8 weeks in harness pulling leashes behind them. The I attach a cereal box or pillow case to the leashes. Pretty soon they have a little plastic puppy cart they pull around certainly by 10 weeks old. Of course, these little training sessions last all of 2 minutes! Then they move to a little red flyer with PVC shafts by the time they are 4 months. I have built a set of training wheels that I use starting about 6 months, just 12 inch wheels with and axel and shafts of 1x2 pine. When they are between 10 and 12 months they start to pull the small competition style cart. I use no weight until I am serious about competition around 18-24 months. By two years they are raring to go carting! Don't wait! Just modify. You don't want to stress their bones and joints so don't add weight and train short periods of time. Good luck! Lisa Ebnet in Ferndale, WA USA -Original Message- From: Andrea Brin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 6:03 AM To: Berner-L Subject: age for carting i have read that a berner should not start carting until age two. what are the roots of those guidelines. is that a statement for drafting or recreational carting? thanks andrea, woofit and chi shavertown, pa http://www.brin.org/Woofit_and_Chi/
Hernia operation - should I?
Rupert, my 16 month old Berner, has an umbilical hernia. In view that it didn't seem to worry his breeder, nor my vet and, most importantly, doesn't appear to worry my dog, I just left it alone. I intended to have it fixed when he was neutered at 10 month - but then promptly forgot all about it at the time. Meanwhile, his hernia has grown - but then so has the dog - and it is now the size of a small plum. It still doesn't bother him BUT it has become bigger. You know the saying if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but although he isn't broken yet, I don't want until he may become so. I know very little about umbilical hernias and their problems other than that they are fairly common. Could any of you with hernia experience share the pros and cons of corrective surgery? Is surgery even necessary for hernias and if yes, why is that? Many thanks for your help Michaela, Harvey Rupsi Devon/UK
Re: Winter skin??
Could someone please advise me if there is a user friendly supplement or additive that I could use for Stevie's dry skin. It is just a wee bit flakey and I usually call that kind of flakiness at this time of year, Winter skin. I would add oily fish to his diet, after all our Berners were cross bred all those years ago from Newfies! If you are worried about initial bad reaction to change in diet, introduce slowly! My three get lots of sardines, tuna and pilchards and love them! Always glossy coated. All love, Jean, Sunny, Sim, Barney and the Gang X http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
Re: Eye Discharge
Recently my 4 month old BMD (Bella) has been having an inordinate amount of eye discharge. Any sort of eye discharge in any of my animals I always keep a tube of Brolene. Used to be Golden Eye ointment here UK, no doubt in the US you have a similar cream over the counter, chemist/pharmicist, for simple eye infections. If no better after a couple of days, consult the vet! Love Jean, Sunny, Simmy, Barney and the Gang XXX http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
Berners, Horses, Ponies, etc
Has been great to see just how many other Berner owners also have horse and ponies! Any pics forthcoming here? Happy to make up a special page on my Friends Gallery! I have just, very belatedly, (post bad gales here UK that set me way behind!) uploaded some new pics from Carole and Tony's visit here in the Summer, lots of my Bernese and Welsh Mountain Ponies, Arthur and Andy. Hope you enjoy! Rest of the Gang creep in there too! Find on the Updates with links through to the other pages from that visit! No new pics of my Bernese and the cats. My felines are just appearing again now the weather is getting bad! Wished I had had the camera handy this morning, Sooty appeared with a present for me and all the dogs and the other two cats got very interested! Santa came early! Well, would have been a pic of rear ends! Present disappeared under the TV table. And seems to have escaped as no further squeaks, they all lost interest come lunchtime when I banged the gong and proper dinner. (Hmmm! Probably under my bed!) Catch you later, have a new piece to upload to my Humour Page. All love, Jean, Sunny, Simmy, Barney and the Gang X http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
Re: Canadian Shows
I just got back from Montreal Canada this Sunday. It was my first trip and I had a blast. The best part is my dog is now a Canadian Champion! To finish, a dog must get 10 points under at least 3 different judges. Points range from 1 to 5 points, depending on the amount of dogs entered. (You don't need majors). I had to have a current rabies to get my dog back into the states, I didn't take him up there, but I beleive that is all you need. I actually brought my registration papers just in case. Also, if you don't register your dog in Canada with the CKC, you have to get an ERN number every time you show. In addition, if you use an ERN number, his title does not appear on any Canadian Kennel Club documents, pedigrees, etc. I registered my dog with the CKC. I had to provide proof of microchip, original AKC reg, original certified pedigree and a declaration and application downloadable at the ckc website. It cost about $40.00 American and took 3 weeks to get my CKC registration back. Hope this helps/ Joanne Gerow, Indian Hill. P.S. Sortie means exit Quest means west, est means east, Pont means bridge. That is as far as I got!! Thank God for picture signs and arrows. P.P.S. Americans say it is easy to finish a dog in Canada, I disagree. There are some awesome dogs up there. - Original Message - From: Jennifer Lemerande [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 12:18 PM Subject: Canadian Shows How does one go about finding out dates for Canadian shows, entering Canadian shows, and what are the requirements to get a dog into Canada for a show. I know the point system is different too. Any info would be appreciated. Jennifer
RE: Nose to Nose
amazon has the book, so does by jove andrea, woofit and chi shavertown, pa http://www.brin.org/Woofit_and_Chi/
Being chased by humans
I've been taking my Hannah to a little city pretty much every day , I have to wait for my daughter while she's in ballet classes daily. Hannah is known to most of the shop owners now , and to many people who work in the area and walk past us :-). Today I got the fright of my life when a gentleman popped out of a shop behind us , yelling at me to WAIT !!! WAIT , PLEASE !!! Hannah looked at me and looked back at him , and started to wag the heck out of her tail ! I expected her to run like h**l ! He was so happy to see a berner , poor soul , LOL ! It was freezing outside , he had no coat on and stayed to pet her and talk to me for 15 minutes ! Raving about his old neighbors that had a berner , and couldn't believe his eyes when he saw Hannah walk past his shop. It was hilarious ! He asked me what kind of treats she's allowed , and wants a visit often ! She's added another victim to her schedule , HAHA ! At this rate , I won't have to pay to feed her :-). And no , he doesn't want one , just loves them. It's really cool to have a dog that has her own fan club ... has anyone else had this sort of thing happen ??? Laurie Montoya PA with Hannah , Shelby the Wonder mutt and assorted cats
RE: Canadian Shows - a Brag!
-Original Message- From: Joanne Gerow The best part is my dog is now a Canadian Champion! Joanne, That is a definite brag, and a great one at that! Congratulations!! Are you familiar with the Berner-L Brag Fund? It's voluntary, all donations from $0 to $1,000,000 are cheerfully accepted, and all the funds go to the BMDCA Donor Advised Fund at the CHF - unless you'd rather they go somewhere else. And... since Joye Neff is running a fundraiser, I would suggest that any brag money go to that for now! See www.overthefence.com/raffle/BARC/ for details on where to send your donations. Anyway, the Brag Fund is all in fun, and it helps your brag benefit other Berners, what could be better! Pat Long ( Luther) Brag Fund Queen Berwyn PA
Berner Puppy
Hi All, We currently have a pup Berner, 2 yr old boy named Koc. We were thinking about getting him a friend. For this reason, I was wondering if any of you could help me find a reputable breeder in Florida. We live in Florida and I would want to make sure Koc and the puppy get along good before we made any decisions. The breeder we got Koc from was great and I would recommend him to anyone however he is located in Virginia (Koc has not health problems and he was practically trained when we got him at 8 weeks). Anyway, I would appreciate any assistance. Thank you, Elif -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 12:05 PM To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List Subject: BERNER-L digest 4159 BERNER-L Digest 4159 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Nose to Nose by martha cehrs [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) Re: Old Berner Referral List update by Doug Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Solar Eclipse by Marion Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) The dogs on the mountain in Switzerland by Marion Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland by Emma Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: Berner on Swiss Mountain:becoming rare breed? by Emma Goodall [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) RE: OT - Flying pets to Ireland by Daniel Buckley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) OT - Flying pets to Ireland by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Costs of Owning a Berner by Pat Long Paul Dangel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) French Dog Food by Timothy Forman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Swiss saying by Kathy Tim Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) RE: . . .becoming rare breed by Karen McFarlane [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) Re: Swiss saying by Pat Long [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) 2003 Berner Calendar by Terri Taylor-Mikes [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) Re:2003 Berner Calendar by Patricia Tackett [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) age for carting by Andrea Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) RE: 2003 Calendar -- Joye's BARC/LOC raffle by Patricia Tackett [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) I think that I did it again!! by Karen McFarlane [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) by Hicks, Jackie [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: Dewclaws by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) Re: dewclaws by Ruth Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) pet insurance by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) Re: How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) Re: dewclaws by Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27) Re: More How the breed will be saved (dog on the mountain) by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28) Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland:becoming rare breed by Michaela Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] 29) Wingfield's American Pi 7/8/98 - 12/04/02 by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 30) OT - flying pets to ireland by Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] 31) Re: the dog on the mountain in Switzerland:becoming rare breed by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 32) Re: Papers for flying by Kathryn Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Kobi's French web page
Gen and Kobi, Enjoyed you photos very much - Kobi must have snuck in a few Cute Lessons before you took those photos :-) as he is a darling. Also loved the page on your web site with the Queen of the Cows fights - I guess you had to be there - the trophy bells are lovely. Did they have any dogs helping sort through the cows being excused from the ring? Libby Kesner and the Berner girls of Maine Voorheesville NY USA
Bone/Rag Eater, Kongs, Dew Claws
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Snow!
We got our first snow here in North Carolina today. School got out early, so I was glad to get home and take the dogs out in it. Socrates, at 9, has begun to slow down and limp pretty regularly from arthritis. No sign of either today. He ran and chased and played with Bagley through the huge fluffy flakes. We walked down through the woods. So peaceful. Wonderful sound of snow falling on dry leaves all around. At one point the dogs both stopped and stood at attention with their fronts on a small rise, sniffing the air. Looking like the dog on the top of the mountain. It was one of those moments that takes your breath away. After we got back in the yard, I had several chores to do and Socrates lay there in the snow, eating snow, and simply enjoying being out in it. By the time we were all ready to come in, he was completely covered. Had to sweep him off before he could come in the house. They both flaked out in the bedroom, and I haven't seen either one for several hours. Shortly after we came in it all turned to freezing rain and is still going. We may be here for a while. Glad we got out to enjoy it while we could. Suzanne Deering High Point NC
BARC LOC Challenge Fundraiser
Joye and all Berner-L friends, I have been out to this great raffle website 4 times now and it is JUST to hard for me to decide which items I want to try for on the quick, little mini raffle. SO, this is what I am going to do... I am send a check to Joye for $40.00 which is to be used for 28 BARC tickets and 28 LOC tickets as I feel each cause is the flip side of the coin when it comes to keeping our BMD's out of the puppy mills. Joye, please distribute one BARC ticket and LOC ticket to each of the next 28 people who CAN make up there minds on what they want to try for on the mini raffle. Bless you all for the difference you are making in the lives of many future pups either by supporting BARC, LOC or both! Star said to send you all Berner Hugs and Puppy Kisses so if you'll just move a bit closer to your computer screen.. :-) Marilynn and Star.
Re: BARC LOC Challenge Fundraiser
Hi Marilynn and Star, What a thoughtful way to spend your tickets for the BARC LOC Challenge Fundraiser!!! That is really great - I'll put MS (Marilynn Star) on each of those tickets so the next 28 people who send in their donations will know which tickets are their bonus tickets from you. The winner will know that it was your ticket that won the prize if they are a winner. THANK YOU!!! Here is the website that Karen Pickel has made for the BARC LOC Challenge Fundraiser: http://www.overthefence.com/raffle/BARC/ It takes a lot of time to see all 97 items for the fundraiser. Remember, too, that there is a Pre-Holiday Drawing for the first 15 items (lettered A through O) so you better check those out and send in your money to enter in that drawing NOW. I got the first two donations for the fundraiser already - thank you Lynne Hawkinson and Maria Crifasi!! You are both speedy!! Now the rest of you better hurry and send in your money so you can win a prize in the Pre-Holiday portion of the fundraiser. I'll be announcing the donation totals for BARC and LOC this weekend . the Challenge part of the Fundraiser should be fun - let's see which group will be in the lead at the end of the week!! Thanks again Marilynn and Star for sharing all of the tickets you bought with your Berner-l Friends!! Joye Neff and Winston (Samantha and Ben) Mt. Lebanon, Pittsburgh, PA --On Wednesday, December 04, 2002 9:33 PM -0500 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:r Joye and all Berner-L friends, I have been out to this great raffle website 4 times now and it is JUST to hard for me to decide which items I want to try for on the quick, little mini raffle. SO, this is what I am going to do... I am send a check to Joye for $40.00 which is to be used for 28 BARC tickets and 28 LOC tickets as I feel each cause is the flip side of the coin when it comes to keeping our BMD's out of the puppy mills. Joye, please distribute one BARC ticket and LOC ticket to each of the next 28 people who CAN make up there minds on what they want to try for on the mini raffle. Bless you all for the difference you are making in the lives of many future pups either by supporting BARC, LOC or both! Star said to send you all Berner Hugs and Puppy Kisses so if you'll just move a bit closer to your computer screen.. :-) Marilynn and Star.
Fwd: Christmas ball
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Help
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Re: More dewclaws questions
- Original Message - From: Michaela Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] Why are rear dewclaws removed? Is it solely to conform to the breed standard? Or is there another reason why rear dewclaw should be removed? A lot of folks will tell you dewclaws mean trouble--getting snagged, requiring extra clipping, etc. However, in sighthounds they are thought to be necessary for fast cornering, and slow motion tapes show that they do touch ground at significant moments of exertion. In Great Pyrs, double dewclaws are required on the hind and singles up front; we call it Lliira's 4 wheel drive. :-) I've never had a problem with her dewclaws. Once in a great while someone will post to the list about a snagged or torn dewclaw, but it is not more common that the tearing of any other claw or toe as far as question/comment frequency seems to go. I know dogs who get exercise in rugged terrain do not seem to need the double dewclaws clipped; Lliira and Cassie need very infrequent trimming of the dewclaws (all six of them! or twelve between!). Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Re: dewclaws
- Original Message - From: Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Well, just imagine how much better horses would be if only they had dew claws!!! ;) Well . . . they have chestnuts (also called night eyes) which are the vestigial remains of the fifth toe. It's that funny patch on the inside of the forearm and gaskin. They are like fingerprints--a different pattern for every horse. You can take an impression of them and prove your horse is yours if it is stolen. Actually, horse front leg conformation is really cool--it's like an elongated hand. What we think of as the knee is really a wrist joint; the hoof was the middle finger of the hand. The other fingers are along the cannon and go into the lower joints. I think I should stop now. I sound like a lunatic teacher, lecturing a sleeping class . . . =8-0 Eileen Morgan The Mare's Nest http://www.enter.net/~edlehman --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/2002
Berner fan club
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Re: Hernia operation - should I?
Hi Michaela- If you had your dog neutered already, I am surprised that your vet did not go ahead and fix it surgically regardless of you authorizing it. Typically it is done for the dog at the time of the spay/castration...and many owners are never the wary. g That said, it is not a necessary surgery, in most cases. If there is only a small amount of fat popping through the area, causing a little ball of fat to be felt underneath the skin on the belly...then most vets will recommend either having it corrected at the spay/castration time, or leave it alone if the dog is not going to be neutered. Most dogs do just fine living with an umbilical hernia all their lives. IF the hernia is on the larger size (to be determined by your veterinarian), then they may recommend surgical repair regardless if the dog is to be neutered or not. Just depends on the size of the opening. Jennie Hoffnagle Glenmoore, PA
Daisy's Tips: Buddy and The Magic Machine
Hi ho L'ers, While reading the Berner-L, I noticed that there is a pitiful lack of creativity when it comes to working the working dog. Besides the usual pursuits like carting (groan), tracking (yawn), obedience (gag), agility g and therapy, there is also camping, hiking, swimming, etc. Granted, these are worthwhile pursuits but there is so much more we Berners can do! May I say that today my Mom pushed the inside of the envelope. You see, Mom needed money but hates the location of the cash machine -- a food market/gas station. She put on her coat and then looked at me (75 lbs.), then at Buddy (115 lbs.). She put the car harnesses on us. This time I got the back seat and Buddy was put in the back portion of the Subaru latched to the cargo hook. Once at the gas station, she slowly backed into a space no more than five feet from the front of the machine. There were several men loitering nearby, and I knew Mom was not happy. She had opened the window nearest me so I stuck my head out and glared at them. Once at the back of the car, she opened the hatch just as the men started to approach the money machine. With panther-like grace, Buddy leaped to the ground. The men froze. Buddy turned his huge head towards them, his neck arched. I don't think the men noticed the 6' leash. They stood there, gaped at Buddy, turned and walked into the food market. Smiling hugely, Mom completed her transaction and returned to the car. Mom should have chosen me to leap out of the car because Buddy Rag Head became convinced that the money machine would have a treat for him since it had obviously given my Mom a treat. He would not get back into the car. He jumped up against the machine and barked at the display. Mom hauled on the leash. More barking. There was a moment of quiet while Mom thought. She returned to the machine, pushed Buddy over and knocked on the display. I would like one luscious treat for Buddy please. Buddy Lack Brain immediately splatted into an eager Sit. Mom touched her cupped hand to the display, squealed with delight and ran back to the car followed by a drooling idiot who leaped into the car and joyfully snatched the treat. Mom almost got it right. Size is indeed important but in this instance, she should have chosen brain over brawn. Sometimes Berner owners have to learn the hard way. ...greatness knows itself.. Daisy
Another Berner in the Snow
Yes, folks, it is SNOWING in southeastern Virginia. I don't remember having snow this early here for many years. My 20.5 month old Berner went out and stared at the sky, trying to figure out what this hard stuff was, pelting him in the head!!! As you may remember, Klarsson is a rescue that I adopted in August. He is adjusting well and I've been reading him the emails from you folks up North about the snow and the Berners. I have noticed that on the mornings that it is really cold outside, I have a hard time getting him to come back in the house. He goes out, does his thing, and then lays down on the cold concrete. My Sheltie, on the other hand, wants to run back into the warm house because she is shivering (she has blown all her coat)... Anyway, Klarsson's first family lived near Greenville, SC so I don't know if he has ever really seen snow (read falling ice) before. He is pretty cute!!! So, maybe it'll snow a lot (about an inch) here so things will shut down and then I can take the dogs to my parents to romp (they have an acre and a half of yard) so he can REALLY get the snow experience. Wendy Keene, Klarsson (let it snow!!!) and Lilah (I'm freezing my Sheltie behind off!) Hampton, VA
Re: Nails. Is Wear A Sign of Use?
Maybe they DO wear down the dewclaw nails through use. My Tinka was thirteen when suddenly she would paw my leg and leave scratches, did start to clip her front dew claws then! Until then, no problem! My three at the moment have front dew claws intact, they still seem to wear them down naturally, All love, Jean, Sunny, Simmy, Barney and the Gang X http://www.angelfire.com/anime3/longlease/index.htm
My dogs' very favorite ramp/a new teacher to the masses
A carpenter friend of mine built a beautiful, carpeted dog ramp for my Bernese to assist them in entering the van. If they used it at all, it was with reluctance; they let it be known to me that the ramp of their choice was MamaliftmeorIwontgetin! Interesting experience today; I was at a local business and began to listen to a conversation between a customer and the proprietor, a friend of mine. I listened because I heard the word Shar Pei (excuse spelling) used. Woman had bought a pup at pet store and pup succumbed to pneumonia; at this point, I jumped in and added the explanation that pup likely hailed from mill in Missouri. I was glad to hear that this lady had researched such as a result of her experience and knew about Hunte, etc. Turns out pup had been taken from dam at six weeks of age. Her new pup was purchased from a reputable breeder, whom she described in detail. As terrible as it was that this lady lost her first pup, she now can teach others about the best sources for healthy, well-bred pups. Lisa Allen _ STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
Re: Daisy's Tips: Buddy and The Magic Machine
Daisy, Since Bernese Mountain Dogs are so good at training people (Which seems to be very easy and must be related to the size of the brain or something) I see no problem with our moving on to a more challenging situation. After all, ATM's should learn to dispense something of real value instead of just tiny bits of paper! Star
Re: BERNER-L digest 4161
I have a 3 year old male berner, who is a certified therapy dog, but all of a sudden has decided not to listen to any commands at all. He will not come inside , stays outside for 5-7 hrs at a time . any specific training, trainers?t 0AI would like to find someone local, we live in Blue Bell , Pa. Thanks, Mila BERNER-L Digest 4161 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: dewclaws by Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2) RE: Need info on dog car ramp. by Kaethy Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] 3) Re: Canadian Shows by Kim Morrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] 4) Re: Need info on dog car ramp. by Corinne [EMAIL PROTECTED] 5) Nails. Is wear a sign of use? by Ruth Reynolds [EMAIL PROTECTED] 6) re: Canadian Shows by Robin Camken [EMAIL PROTECTED] 7) Re: MY ERROR re: swiss saying by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 8) Re: Papers for flying by Sharon Greenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 9) RE:club certification by Patricia Tackett [EMAIL PROTECTED] 10) Re: French Dog Food by Corinne [EMAIL PROTECTED] 11) RE: Nose to Nose in Europe by Pat Long Paul Dangel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12) Re: Need info on dog car ramp. by Sharon Greenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 13) Need info on dog car ramp by Todd/Jennifer Zaayer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 14) More dewclaws questions by Michaela Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] 15) The Eyes Have It! by Lisa D Allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] 16) CVBMDC is hosting a carting workshop by Laurie Farley [EMAIL PROTECTED] 17) RE: age for carting by Lisa Ebnet [EMAIL PROTECTED] 18) Hernia operation - should I? by Michaela Simmons [EMAIL PROTECTED] 19) Re: Winter skin?? by jean cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 20) Re: Eye Discharge by jean cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 21) Berners, Horses, Ponies, etc by jean cheesman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 22) Re: Canadian Shows by Joanne Gerow [EMAIL PROTECTED] 23) RE: Nose to Nose by Andrea Brin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 24) Being chased by humans by Laurie Montoya [EMAIL PROTECTED] 25) RE: Canadian Shows - a Brag! by Pat Long Paul Dangel [EMAIL PROTECTED] 26) Canoe is gone by catherine green [EMAIL PROTECTED] 27) Berner Puppy by Elif Caputa [EMAIL PROTECTED] 28) Re: Winter skin?? by nbmws6 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 29) Kobi's French web page by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 30) Bone Eating, Rag Eater, Kongs, and Dew Claws by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 31) Bone/Rag Eater, Kongs, Dew Claws by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 32) Snow! by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 33) BARC LOC Challenge Fundraiser by [EMAIL PROTECTED] 34) Re: BARC LOC Challenge Fundraiser by Dr. William B. Neff [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 13:28:25 -0700 Message-ID: 0c7e01c29bd3$b2f99120$[EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Mary-Ann Bowman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: dewclaws MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Well, just imagine how much better horses would be if only they had dew claws!!! ;) Mary-Ann Message-ID: 36421B9F8712D411B53D009027B105029609DE@CD_EMAIL From: Kaethy Kennedy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Dean Scott' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Need info on dog car ramp. Date: Wed, 4 Dec 2002 12:40:11 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 We LOVE this ramp. It has carpet so that the dogs don't slip, and is very sturdy for big dogs. Go to Dogramp.com. They are a small little company out of Florida - very nice people. Our friends just got one for their 150 lb. Newfoundland, and we just donated one to the local Veterinary shelter. We have a Tahoe and it works great to leave it flat in the back of the SUV and then pull it out before the dogs need to get in or out of the truck. (Our lab has arthritis and it has a gentle slope that he can easily maneuver. Our 1 year old Bernese bounds up and down it just for fun!) Good luck! Kaethy -- From: Dean Scott Sent: Wednesday, December 4, 2002 10:44 AM To: Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List Subject: Need info on dog car ramp. When we brought Skyland's Pralines in Cream into our home in 1993. We bought a 1992 left over van, we always called it Pralines van. And any time someone ask how much does it cost to keep a Berner we always include the price of the van. Well I am glad to announce that the van died this week and Praline is still going strong. We bought her a new Ford Expedition. I am wondering if anyone can recommend a car ramp that they are happy with. Thanks. Dean Scott Kutztown, Pa. Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 14:48:41 -0600 From: Kim Morrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Canadian Shows To: Jeff Mary Chapdelaine - SnoBear berners [EMAIL PROTECTED],
re; Canadian Shows
you have to get an ERN number every time you show. In addition, if you use an ERN number, *** No you dont. You get the number issued one time, and you use that number for the rest of the dog's life, while you show in Canada. I faxed the info to CKC, and got all my ERN's back in time to enter the Canadian National. Judy Arneson-Johnson Kielerstar Endicott, WA
State of the Breed (dog on the mt, whatever)
It is very important to remember this fact about the Bernese in the USA: This is no longer a rare breed. I will say it again for emphasis - this is NOT a rare breed. So, I just don't understand why people are paying top dollar for a puppy just because it is a BMD. I don't understand why people are spending more than 1000 of their hard-earned dollars, for the privilege of spending thousands more in vet bills, just because the puppy is a Bernese Mountain Dog. Yes, they ARE cute - but so are most puppies. I could *sort of* understand it when this breed WAS rare, and truly in short supply... I could sort of understand how people would pay the big bucks. But today - NO WAY. This breed is everywhere, owned by everyone. This is no longer a special breed in the sense that when you are on the other end of the lead, you get alot of attention because people are so surprised to see a BMD, or don't know what breed it is, whatever. (not to say this breed is not precious and special to ME and the many other owners who love their dogs...just like boxers are dear to their owners, and yorkies, cocker spaniels, labs, etc. - of course all dogs are special). The point I am making is this - Berners are now well on their way to being out and out common. How many people pay $1500 for a Golden Retriever pup out of non-champion, untitled parents? How many people pay $1500 for a BMD out of non-champion parents - sadly, far too many. That said - WELL-BRED Bernese Mountain Dogs are still rare and always will be. In fact, WELL-BRED dogs of almost every breed, are rare in this country. My sister has a lovely Golden - a spayed pet - and she gets noticed quite a bit when she takes her out, because she is clearly a WELL-BRED dog. My sister paid $900 fo her with a s/n contract - a bit more than the typical BYB price of $300-$600 depending on their brazeness. Her breeder, like other responsible breeders, KNOWS the standard and plans breedings with that in mind. As a result, Tusker looks nothing like your garden variety golden retriever. She might as well be a different breed. I think we will be seeing a huge increase in garden variety Berners - soon. For the most part, I agree with Susan that the breed will save itself - although it remains to be seen whether Berners become the next Golden (which did NOT save itself - the litters are too large) or the next Saint (a breed which basically DID save itself). Saints overall are not in favor at the puppy mills anymore - not profitable. I pray every day that Berners in the puppy mills will not be fertile. This breed is, generally, not the most fertile - lots of cystic ovaries, short-cycling bitches, dogs with sperm abnormalities or low drive. In addition, many bitches require c-sections and many pups are slow starters to the point that some die shortly after birth (very common with inexperienced breeders who don't have someone more knowledgeable assisting). If people weren't so willing to pay $1500+ then this breed would be a money loser for the commercial producers. The sooner the public GETS A CLUE and stops forking over the money to the numerous shysters selling BMDs on the internet (like many of the current crop at sites such as Yahoo), the better the future will look for this breed. There are some good breeders who advertise on the internet - and they often provide alot of info in their ads to set them apart - registered names, clearances, titles on the actual litter parents (none of this from championship lines baloney - yeah, 3 or 4 generations back). Avoid the ads that emphasize in time for Christmas - that is a major red flag and very common on the internet at this time of year. Sometimes pups do end up being ready for the new homes at Christmas but a good breeder will try to counteract the negatives associated with this timing, rather than capitalize on it as a selling point. Finding a Berner pup from a really good, careful, conscientious breeder is still a challenge. And of course, bringing a Berner pup - or ANY pup - into your family always brings the risk of high vet bills. Stuff happens - even when the breeder was careful to plan a breeding with health as a major factor. The state of the breed has changed dramatically in just two short, sad years. Not sure what the next two will bring. I am not opposed to more being bred... quantity is not the evil, low quality is... We need MORE breeders who are truly up to the challenge of breeding responsibly. Sharon Montville - Firstrax - Colorado __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com
Re: re; Canadian Shows
Yes, I meant to say you have to USE an ERN # everytime you show, sorry...it is much easier, IMO to just register your dog CKC. - Original Message - From: mtndog [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Berner L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 04, 2002 11:07 PM Subject: re; Canadian Shows you have to get an ERN number every time you show. In addition, if you use an ERN number, *** No you dont. You get the number issued one time, and you use that number for the rest of the dog's life, while you show in Canada. I faxed the info to CKC, and got all my ERN's back in time to enter the Canadian National. Judy Arneson-Johnson Kielerstar Endicott, WA
