Re: [Blackbelly] Lamb with the runs (Julian Hale)

2010-03-26 Thread Julian Hale
At 04:38 PM 3/18/2010, you wrote:
Interesting, Julian. I've always read that sulfa-based drugs have side
effects and Corid has no known/proven side effects.  I got hit hard
with scours several times with our three bottle-ewes and a pygmy goat
last year. I started with Albon and read up on how it works and was
desperate for something even more effective, or to work with it.

snip

 How CORID works
Structurally, CORID mimics thiamin (Vitamin B1) which is required by
coccidia for normal growth and reproduction. When coccidia ingest
CORID, they experience thiamin deficiency and starve from
malnutrition. CORID has been experimentally administered at many times
the recommended dosage and duration with no signs of toxicity.

Sorry for the late reply, I lost this message in all the hustle and bustle 
lately.

This is the problem with Corid, it inhibits thiamin uptake in the rumen, and 
leads to a B1 deficiency.  I've read that Rumensin and related drugs are a good 
preventative, you could try that.  I've seen plenty of Sweetlix blocks that 
contain rumensin.  I'm not really big on pharmaceuticals in general, and 
usually prefer the older types when I use one, since the safety is well known 
and long established.  This can cause a condition called 
polioencephalomalacia, which quickly leads to death.  I'll take the 
sulfadimethoxine...

Julian 

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Re: [Blackbelly] Lamb with the runs (Julian Hale)

2010-03-26 Thread Cecil Bearden

Julian Hale wrote:

At 04:38 PM 3/18/2010, you wrote:
  

Interesting, Julian. I've always read that sulfa-based drugs have side
effects and Corid has no known/proven side effects.  I got hit hard
with scours several times with our three bottle-ewes and a pygmy goat
last year. I started with Albon and read up on how it works and was
desperate for something even more effective, or to work with it.



snip

 How CORID works
Structurally, CORID mimics thiamin (Vitamin B1) which is required by
coccidia for normal growth and reproduction. When coccidia ingest
CORID, they experience thiamin deficiency and starve from
malnutrition. CORID has been experimentally administered at many times
the recommended dosage and duration with no signs of toxicity.

Sorry for the late reply, I lost this message in all the hustle and bustle 
lately.

This is the problem with Corid, it inhibits thiamin uptake in the rumen, and leads to a 
B1 deficiency.  I've read that Rumensin and related drugs are a good preventative, you 
could try that.  I've seen plenty of Sweetlix blocks that contain rumensin.  I'm not 
really big on pharmaceuticals in general, and usually prefer the older types when I use 
one, since the safety is well known and long established.  This can cause a condition 
called polioencephalomalacia, which quickly leads to death.  I'll take the 
sulfadimethoxine...

Julian 


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Immodium will also work if you cannot find any bacterial reason for 
it...  It takes about 2 pills.  I grind it up and mix it in Kaopectate 
drench.  Also Colostrum powder works well in Kaopectate.  I have mixed 
both in a coctail to cure stubborn scours...

It works.
Cecil in oKla
Cecil in OKla
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Re: [Blackbelly] Lamb with the runs (Julian Hale)

2010-03-18 Thread Michael Smith

From: Julian Hale jbh...@comcast.net

Yes, Pro-biotics would be a good idea, also try kaolin-pectin to stop
up her system a bit, and make sure she gets electrolytes.  It seems
like she's too young to have worms, but I always worry about coccidia
in lambs/kids.  Sulfadimethoxine(just about every feed store carries
it) treats coccidiosis well, but IMO you should stay away from
Corrid(amprolium), because of side effects.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/medications.htm#sulfadimenthoxine


Interesting, Julian. I've always read that sulfa-based drugs have side
effects and Corid has no known/proven side effects.  I got hit hard
with scours several times with our three bottle-ewes and a pygmy goat
last year. I started with Albon and read up on how it works and was
desperate for something even more effective, or to work with it.

The thing that was the most frustrating for me was: they'd get over
it-- and in a week, they would have it again. which made me want to
search for a preventative.

In any case, I now use both Albon and Corid (and electrolytes and
probiotics) for an outbreak. Corid in the morning, Albon in the
evening--both as an oral drench shot into the mouth. You can't mix
them, they break down right before your eyes--into a white, globby
mess. I have not used Corid in low-doses for prevention, although, I
might try it this year, mainly because it is relatively safe according
to everything I could read. But the claim Corid is palatable has not
been proven true for me, so I have to drench the lambs when I give
it... and I've tasted it. I feel sorry for them.

This is their site, and they claim it has no side effects up to many
times the prescribed dose, but if there were known side-effects, it
would be in their best interest to list them, as with any drug you
read about or see on TV:
http://www.corid.com/corid_products.html

 How CORID works
Structurally, CORID mimics thiamin (Vitamin B1) which is required by
coccidia for normal growth and reproduction. When coccidia ingest
CORID, they experience thiamin deficiency and starve from
malnutrition. CORID has been experimentally administered at many times
the recommended dosage and duration with no signs of toxicity.

When CORID works
CORID stops coccidia at a critical stage in the host animal's small
intestine to prevent more damaging coccidiosis in the large intestine.
By acting on the young asexual stages of the coccidia life cycle,
CORID allows exposure to first-generation schizonts, so the host
animal can develop natural immunity to coccidia. This makes CORID
effective as a preventive therapy.


Whereas Sulfa drugs have a few known and documented side-effects, but
are good at killing Coccidia in the later stages:
http://www.marvistavet.com/html/sulfadimethoxine.html

Here's a study that likes Corid for prevention for entire herds and
recommends Sulfa drugs (Albon) for individuals who are currently sick.
They say Corid may cause a problem with prolonged use, but they
don't back it up with any studies or facts:

http://www.cvm.missouri.edu/favpdseries/Course%20I/Homework%20Reading/Food%20Animal%20Diseases/Cattle%20Diseases/Coccidiosis.doc

a quote: Long-term use of amprolium is contraindicated because it may
lead to unwanted side effects  associated with impaired thiamin
metabolism.

But this is for people putting Corid in the water of an entire herd
for long periods, and is based upon the knowledge that Corid acts by
mimicking thiamine and starving the coccidia of it. Their supposition
is that it might prevent the host animal from getting enough thiamine,
but again, no proof or studies in the footnotes.


-Michael, Perino Ranch Blackbellies
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