Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Florian, all, Am 28.07.21 um 10:29 schrieb Florian Effenberger: > Hello Andreas, > > Andreas Mantke wrote on 26.07.21 at 19:51: > >> Thus I could not provide you any experience about the effectiveness of >> the different captcha services (providers). I created the new hcaptcha >> add-on only on a request / discussion inside the community. > > to answer your question, the above is indeed the problem we were > facing - other Captcha services were working, but much less reliable, > i.e. they were much less suited to prevent spamming. Even with > blocking certain "spammy" IP ranges, the amount of spam was too high, > and the feedback from other communities back then was very similar. > > However, let's continue this technical discussion on the website@ list > instead, where also others could provide valuable feedback. > if you like you could start a new discussion on that list. I worked on a further version of one Plone add-on with protection by a honeypot field instead of a captcha. I used a special add-on for this, which was published by some members of the Plone community. This technology has the advantage that it doesn't bother the website user in the way a captcha does. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Andreas, Andreas Mantke wrote on 26.07.21 at 19:51: Thus I could not provide you any experience about the effectiveness of the different captcha services (providers). I created the new hcaptcha add-on only on a request / discussion inside the community. to answer your question, the above is indeed the problem we were facing - other Captcha services were working, but much less reliable, i.e. they were much less suited to prevent spamming. Even with blocking certain "spammy" IP ranges, the amount of spam was too high, and the feedback from other communities back then was very similar. However, let's continue this technical discussion on the website@ list instead, where also others could provide valuable feedback. Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Florian, all, Am 26.07.21 um 09:16 schrieb Florian Effenberger: > Hello Andreas, > > Andreas Mantke wrote on 23.07.21 at 17:49: > >>> thanks for sharing! Let us know how it's going - we'll also share our >>> findings (probably on the website list), as I guess several projects >>> have similar issues. >>> >> I created a new Plone add-on to use HCaptcha instead of ReCaptcha some >> weeks ago and migrated the forms of a Plone add-on to HCaptcha >> currently. I'll work on further Plone add-ons and migrate the forms to >> HCaptcha. I think about making it optional to use HCaptcha and rely on >> the 'honeypot' add-on technology instead. > > thanks for the follow-up! > What's your experience with this captcha, is there a difference > between the spam before and after? Back in the days, all alternative > captchas were much less effective, I'm curious to learn how the > situation is noawadays. I'm currently not running or managing any server / PC outside my home environment. I have a payed full time outside the software industrie and work on software only as volunteer in my spare time. Thus I could not provide you any experience about the effectiveness of the different captcha services (providers). I created the new hcaptcha add-on only on a request / discussion inside the community. > > (Maybe let's follow-up with this discussion on website@) > If I remember correctly there is an open ticket in the LibreOffice community on this topic without real work on it for about four years yet. Has there been any research on this topic (without documentation) on that topic inside the LibreOffice community already? Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Andreas, Andreas Mantke wrote on 23.07.21 at 17:49: thanks for sharing! Let us know how it's going - we'll also share our findings (probably on the website list), as I guess several projects have similar issues. I created a new Plone add-on to use HCaptcha instead of ReCaptcha some weeks ago and migrated the forms of a Plone add-on to HCaptcha currently. I'll work on further Plone add-ons and migrate the forms to HCaptcha. I think about making it optional to use HCaptcha and rely on the 'honeypot' add-on technology instead. thanks for the follow-up! What's your experience with this captcha, is there a difference between the spam before and after? Back in the days, all alternative captchas were much less effective, I'm curious to learn how the situation is noawadays. (Maybe let's follow-up with this discussion on website@) Thanks, Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Florian, all, Am 01.06.21 um 10:31 schrieb Florian Effenberger: > Hello Andreas, > > Andreas Mantke wrote on 31.05.21 at 18:29: > >> I'm currently evaluate a solution for Plone with a 'honeypot' and work >> on a new add-on for a switch to a GDPR compatible captcha online >> provider. > > thanks for sharing! Let us know how it's going - we'll also share our > findings (probably on the website list), as I guess several projects > have similar issues. > I created a new Plone add-on to use HCaptcha instead of ReCaptcha some weeks ago and migrated the forms of a Plone add-on to HCaptcha currently. I'll work on further Plone add-ons and migrate the forms to HCaptcha. I think about making it optional to use HCaptcha and rely on the 'honeypot' add-on technology instead. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Andreas, Andreas Mantke wrote on 31.05.21 at 18:29: I'm currently evaluate a solution for Plone with a 'honeypot' and work on a new add-on for a switch to a GDPR compatible captcha online provider. thanks for sharing! Let us know how it's going - we'll also share our findings (probably on the website list), as I guess several projects have similar issues. Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Florian, Am 31.05.21 um 11:35 schrieb Florian Effenberger: > Hello Andreas, > > Andreas Mantke wrote on 30.05.21 at 20:12: > >> would be great, if someone could shed some light on this. Is there >> already a captcha provider available which could be self hosted. I >> searched for such option, but with no result. > > we looked at some in the past (don't remember their names from the top > of my head), but the results were only mediocre. What helped us years > ago in the wiki was to ask concrete questions eg. about TDF (Where are > we located etc.), because these cannot be automated so easily, but > still, you need to rotate these frequently... indeed, time for a > proper solution to this. :) > I'm currently evaluate a solution for Plone with a 'honeypot' and work on a new add-on for a switch to a GDPR compatible captcha online provider. But I don't know yet, how long it take me to finish both options, because my spare time currently is occupied mostly by other tasks. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Andreas, Andreas Mantke wrote on 30.05.21 at 20:12: would be great, if someone could shed some light on this. Is there already a captcha provider available which could be self hosted. I searched for such option, but with no result. we looked at some in the past (don't remember their names from the top of my head), but the results were only mediocre. What helped us years ago in the wiki was to ask concrete questions eg. about TDF (Where are we located etc.), because these cannot be automated so easily, but still, you need to rotate these frequently... indeed, time for a proper solution to this. :) Florian -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi, Am 30.05.21 um 12:11 schrieb Uwe Altmann: > Hi > Am 29.05.21 um 18:31 schrieb Andreas Mantke: >> Interesting to read in the specifications document about a self hosted >> Captcha but without pointing to an example for such solution. > > You embezzled the "i.e." just before that. It was meant to illustrate > the idea, not to describe or define a specific intended solution. > >> I'm curious about a working self hosted Captcha provider. > > Me too :-) would be great, if someone could shed some light on this. Is there already a captcha provider available which could be self hosted. I searched for such option, but with no result. If there are nothing available yet, it is necessary to look for a working solution / a captcha provider, which should be included into the forms (in accordance with the GDPR). Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello Guilhem Am 30.05.21 um 12:26 schrieb Guilhem Moulin: You want “e.g.” then not “i.e.”. The latter isn't a replacement for “for instance”, it stands for “id est” (“that *is*”). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_(E)#e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_(I)#id_est Thanks for the hint. I use(d) it as abbreviation for "in example" - but indeed, for the better educated of us it surely is misleading :-) So indeed, it was meant as an example to illustrate something, not to emphasize something. I'll correct the specs accordingly. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
On Sun, 30 May 2021 at 12:11:31 +0200, Uwe Altmann wrote: > Am 29.05.21 um 18:31 schrieb Andreas Mantke: >> Interesting to read in the specifications document about a self hosted >> Captcha but without pointing to an example for such solution. > > You embezzled the "i.e." just before that. It was meant to illustrate the > idea, not to describe or define a specific intended solution. You want “e.g.” then not “i.e.”. The latter isn't a replacement for “for instance”, it stands for “id est” (“that *is*”). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_(E)#e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Latin_phrases_(I)#id_est -- Guilhem. signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Am 29.05.21 um 18:31 schrieb Andreas Mantke: Interesting to read in the specifications document about a self hosted Captcha but without pointing to an example for such solution. You embezzled the "i.e." just before that. It was meant to illustrate the idea, not to describe or define a specific intended solution. I'm curious about a working self hosted Captcha provider. Me too :-) -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Re: Access To Membership Data (was: Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling)
Hi Andreas Am 29.05.21 um 08:49 schrieb Andreas Mantke: could you please explain who have and who should have access to the membership data (old tooling and new tooling) please...I found nothing about this in the detailed specifications for the tender. First of all: This tender is based on a software specification and not on a description of the working processes of the MC. The latter are just subject as far as it seems necessary to describe the needed software functionality. And this list thread should hold on that tender. Feel free to open another thread for anything else. You did nothing find on data access in the specs because you obviously read only some few pages. In short: Regulating data access is not a function of the tendered software but in fact a function of granting access to it by our SSO solution. You find that described at page 14 of the specs - including the information who is intended to be able to access the software and thereby the data. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
HI Am 29.05.21 um 09:08 schrieb Andreas Mantke: what about the payment for drawing the specifications paper? Is this done on a voluntary base like other public available documents / tender specifications in the project? Yes. It was done by me on a voluntary base. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello, Am 26.05.21 um 14:47 schrieb Mike Saunders: > Hello, > > Today we've published a tender to implement the new TDF Membership > Committee’s web-based tooling: > > https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2021/05/26/tender-to-implement-the-new-tdf-membership-committees-web-based-tooling-202105-01/ > interesting to read in the specifications document about a self hosted Captcha but without pointing to an example for such solution. If such a solution (especially published within an OSS license) already exists, why is it not already used within the current application form?: https://www.documentfoundation.org/governance/members/application/ I'm curious about a working self hosted Captcha provider. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Uwe, Am 28.05.21 um 23:32 schrieb Uwe Altmann: > (...) > So we look for a company to outsource a special problem solution, described > in the specification document. And we are willing to pay those ecosystem > companies for services we feel in need of but which we don't see as our core business (we strongly prefer companies engaged in open source community). i.e. a company which does the necessary plone adjustments. But we surely not would ask the plone community or a certain developer to do so on a voluntary base (c.f. "credo" above). which leads me (after looking over the specifications in more detail) to the question: what about the payment for drawing the specifications paper? Is this done on a voluntary base like other public available documents / tender specifications in the project? Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Re: Access To Membership Data (was: Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling)
Hi Uwe, all, Am 28.05.21 um 23:32 schrieb Uwe Altmann: > (...) > All right for the mentioned "core business" - or in other words: the goals of > the foundation following our statutes. That's how a community works we > believe. Besides: LO in no way is or ever was "volunteer project" (a project has a start and an end). It's a community with a high extent of volunteer engagement. > But this is in no way right if it comes to administrative decisions. To stay in the above example: It sounds rather silly to start a community wide discussion on which software we will use to do our bookkeeping. And in our case, the MC is "the doers". The tooling we use until today emerged exactly the way you described above: Someone set up something which was far way better than nothing. But it has some severe immanent drawbacks. And we understood that we don't have the skills to set up a solution by our own which satisfies our needs. > could you please explain who have and who should have access to the membership data (old tooling and new tooling) please? Has they / should the have access to all membership data from the start of TDF up to now? I found nothing about this in the detailed specifications for the tender. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Andreas Am 27.05.21 um 19:39 schrieb Andreas Mantke: > your reply showed little up to no knowledge and interest in that > CMS/DMS. That's quite right. I'm really not interested in CMS/DMS (at least here) but in a sound and sustainable solution which eases the work of the MC. You may convince me any time, but I'm rather suspicious with proposals containing statements like "probably" or "90%" :-) > Why should I bother /nudge Plone developers and ask them to spent > time on a proposal? Your response shows a very hostile tone towards > the Plone open source community. ... (and for the records: I'm not a > Plone developer, but developed Plone add-ons) And yes, I'm (here) not interested in the plone community. That's not the point at all: Here at TDf we're interested in LO and some related fields. That's our "core business" if you want. The necessary rest gets more or less outsourced if we can afford it. No one would expect TDF engages in i.e Gnucash community just to get it's bookkeeping managed. We instead would pay a gnucash ecosystem company to do the necessary coding, thus following our own credo on how open source software of a certain complexity can be sustainably supported. So we look for a company to outsource a special problem solution, described in the specification document. And we are willing to pay those ecosystem companies for services we feel in need of but which we don't see as our core business (we strongly prefer companies engaged in open source community). i.e. a company which does the necessary plone adjustments. But we surely not would ask the plone community or a certain developer to do so on a voluntary base (c.f. "credo" above). > Maybe you have not been part of the crew that worked on the first > steps of the project and it's infrastructure. If individuals or small > groups wouldn't have set up a website based on Silverstripe (without > asking for permissions or without a poll) or a Template and Extension > website based on Plone, maybe the project would discuss have > discussed about this tooling for month without any visible action. Right, it happened that I was in Nepal at the time TDF was founded :-) And all of this was surely true and necessary at the very start of the project when we didn't have the resources for other/better solutions. > One core principle of the project is that the doers decide the way > and you'll find this form of action at many places in the project. > This principle will fail (for a volunteer project) once the people > that want to tell the doers what and how they had to work, becomes > the majority or the bosses. All right for the mentioned "core business" - or in other words: the goals of the foundation following our statutes. That's how a community works we believe. Besides: LO in no way is or ever was "volunteer project" (a project has a start and an end). It's a community with a high extent of volunteer engagement. But this is in no way right if it comes to administrative decisions. To stay in the above example: It sounds rather silly to start a community wide discussion on which software we will use to do our bookkeeping. And in our case, the MC is "the doers". The tooling we use until today emerged exactly the way you described above: Someone set up something which was far way better than nothing. But it has some severe immanent drawbacks. And we understood that we don't have the skills to set up a solution by our own which satisfies our needs. So we made a tender on this. Anyone who offers a sound solution is welcome. Within the boundaries of the specification and some abstract requirements like acceptable bus factor or serviceability. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Uwe, all, Am 26.05.21 um 23:04 schrieb Uwe Altmann: > Hi Andreas > > Am 26.05.21 um 21:17 schrieb Andreas Mantke: >>> So go on and...arrange > ^^!!! > > That's the point: Stop complaining but go on and nudge a company or a > group of Plone developers to offer something and to give a credible > answer how to ensure 5 years of reliable support on this. As a plone > developer you'll surely know some. > With python we'll have no problem to find someone if we need some > changes in a few years. > your reply showed little up to no knowledge and interest in that CMS/DMS. Why should I bother /nudge Plone developers and ask them to spent time on a proposal? Your response shows a very hostile tone towards the Plone open source community. (for your information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plone_(software) --> first stable release Feb. 2003, last major release July 2019, last security patch: 2021/05/18) (and for the records: I'm not a Plone developer, but developed Plone add-ons) > >> Maybe it's most easy to complain on this. I offered hands-on workshops >> with no interest from the TDF community in the past. The TDF admin team >> got a training from a Plone core developer some time ago. > > ...what doesn't change anything on the basic problem. We (in contrast > to your opinion) did not first set up plone (or something else) and > then look for people who perhaps maybe want to learn it (which - if we > had found some - would have been at least the second Maybe you have not been part of the crew that worked on the first steps of the project and it's infrastructure. If individuals or small groups wouldn't have set up a website based on Silverstripe (without asking for permissions or without a poll) or a Template and Extension website based on Plone, maybe the project would discuss have discussed about this tooling for month without any visible action. One core principle of the project is that the doers decide the way and you'll find this form of action at many places in the project. This principle will fail (for a volunteer project) once the people that want to tell the doers what and how they had to work, becomes the majority or the bosses. > best solution. But we didn't find them). We have to cut the coat > according to our cloth. (btw.: Similar as the android app. Sad - but > there seems no one out there interested to develop under TDFs umbrella) Great picture with cutting the coat according to the cloth: it reminds me on 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. > >> But there are other software with such Bus_factor in the project, but >> nobody is complaining about that (or not loudly / in public). > > And what does this contribute to the discussion on the MC tooling? > Please stay focused. Sorry Uwe but for years I was bantered by a core member of this project for one mistake which I made in 2012. I never heard something else about other software and volunteers in this project. I did my work for TDF and LibreOffice only on volunteer state without getting any payment or asking for such payment for years. Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Andreas Am 26.05.21 um 21:17 schrieb Andreas Mantke: So go on and...arrange ^^!!! That's the point: Stop complaining but go on and nudge a company or a group of Plone developers to offer something and to give a credible answer how to ensure 5 years of reliable support on this. As a plone developer you'll surely know some. With python we'll have no problem to find someone if we need some changes in a few years. Maybe it's most easy to complain on this. I offered hands-on workshops with no interest from the TDF community in the past. The TDF admin team got a training from a Plone core developer some time ago. ...what doesn't change anything on the basic problem. We (in contrast to your opinion) did not first set up plone (or something else) and then look for people who perhaps maybe want to learn it (which - if we had found some - would have been at least the second best solution. But we didn't find them). We have to cut the coat according to our cloth. (btw.: Similar as the android app. Sad - but there seems no one out there interested to develop under TDFs umbrella) But there are other software with such Bus_factor in the project, but nobody is complaining about that (or not loudly / in public). And what does this contribute to the discussion on the MC tooling? Please stay focused. -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Uwe, *, Am 26.05.21 um 20:42 schrieb Uwe Altmann: > Hi Andreas > > Am 26.05.21 um 20:23 schrieb Andreas Mantke: >> I'd expect that the DMS/CMS Plone could deliver about 90 % of the >> expected functionality within it's core code or within an add-on. The >> accessibility, stability and security also shouldn't be an issue. >> (https://plone.org/accessibility-info). And it's OSS software. > > So go on and feel free to make or arrange an offer covering /all/ the > described use cases and further specified requirements. Python is > labeled as preferred (because of [1]), not as required! thus I'm not a freelancer and not owner of a company I'm not able to bid on such a tender. I also not allowed to do such work within an additional business. > > Concerning Plone as platform: I tend to prefer something with a > slightly better bus factor [1] than our Plone experience has shown in > the past. But also here: Insights welcome. > > [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor Maybe it's most easy to complain on this. I offered hands-on workshops with no interest from the TDF community in the past. The TDF admin team got a training from a Plone core developer some time ago. But there are other software with such Bus_factor in the project, but nobody is complaining about that (or not loudly / in public). Regards, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hi Andreas Am 26.05.21 um 20:23 schrieb Andreas Mantke: I'd expect that the DMS/CMS Plone could deliver about 90 % of the expected functionality within it's core code or within an add-on. The accessibility, stability and security also shouldn't be an issue. (https://plone.org/accessibility-info). And it's OSS software. So go on and feel free to make or arrange an offer covering /all/ the described use cases and further specified requirements. Python is labeled as preferred (because of [1]), not as required! Concerning Plone as platform: I tend to prefer something with a slightly better bus factor [1] than our Plone experience has shown in the past. But also here: Insights welcome. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_factor -- Mit freundlichen Grüßen Uwe Altmann -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
Re: [board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello, Am 26.05.21 um 14:47 schrieb Mike Saunders: > Hello, > > Today we've published a tender to implement the new TDF Membership > Committee’s web-based tooling: > > https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2021/05/26/tender-to-implement-the-new-tdf-membership-committees-web-based-tooling-202105-01/ > it's always funny to have a quick look on such tenders. I'd expect that the DMS/CMS Plone could deliver about 90 % of the expected functionality within it's core code or within an add-on. The accessibility, stability and security also shouldn't be an issue. (https://plone.org/accessibility-info). And it's OSS software. Don't always reinvent the wheel, instead build your tooling on already available great and stable software with little effort and small amount of donation money.. Have a nice evening, Andreas -- ## Free Software Advocate ## Plone add-on developer ## My blog: http://www.amantke.de/blog -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
[board-discuss] Tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling
Hello, Today we've published a tender to implement the new TDF Membership Committee’s web-based tooling: https://blog.documentfoundation.org/blog/2021/05/26/tender-to-implement-the-new-tdf-membership-committees-web-based-tooling-202105-01/ -- Mike Saunders, Marketing and Community Coordinator Tel: +49 30555 7992 62 | IRC: M-Saunders on Freenode The Document Foundation, Kurfürstendamm 188, 10707 Berlin, DE Gemeinnützige rechtsfähige Stiftung des bürgerlichen Rechts Legal details: http://www.documentfoundation.org/imprint -- To unsubscribe e-mail to: board-discuss+unsubscr...@documentfoundation.org Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/ Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette List archive: https://listarchives.documentfoundation.org/www/board-discuss/ Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy
