Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Well Brin-L is down, so I'm cleaning out a few old threads At 11:30 AM 6/8/2003 -0700 Jan Coffey wrote: Speaking of eye candy, anyone notice the distinct lack of hot women? What, Carrie Ann Moss isn't hot in your book? I'm guessing that you somehow didn't like Natalie Portman in Star Wars II either, eh? :-) JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
At 08:09 PM 6/7/2003 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Using humans or any other animal as an energy source is of course foolish Wouldn't humans be a very efficient source of computing power? Or maybe consciousness has some QM properties the machines simply can't duplicate. JDG ___ John D. Giorgis - [EMAIL PROTECTED] The liberty we prize is not America's gift to the world, it is God's gift to humanity. - George W. Bush 1/29/03 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
On Monday, June 9, 2003, at 11:49 pm, Reggie Bautista wrote: Jan wrote, in regards to the Matrix sequel: Speaking of eye candy, anyone notice the distinct lack of hot women? Lots of hot boys I understand, but no really sexy girls. It's all buck and no doe. I've seen the women the bros run around with, so what's the deal? That all depends on how you define hot. One of the people I saw the movie with was particularly impressed by the actress who played Persephone. Another thought that Morpheus' ex was pretty hot. And some people swear by Trinity's good looks... And don't forget Gina Torres. -- William T Goodall Mail : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Web : http://www.wtgab.demon.co.uk Blog : http://radio.weblogs.com/0111221/ Those who study history are doomed to repeat it. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
I wrote: As science fiction, The Matrix and sequel(s) certainly have problems. But as a reading of the Merovingian Heresy and as a Gnostic philosophy parable, The Matrix and Matrix: Reloaded really hang together quite nicely. The philosophical stuff that is spouted in great gouts in the second movie by General Exposition (or The Merovingian) is not filler, it is in fact the heart of the movie, at least as far as the philosophy-obsessed Wachowski brothers are concerned. Ronn! replied: Uh, I get enough discussion of philosophy in the course of a normal day. Can't I go to a movie just to be entertained? ;-) Working at a helpline for store cash registers, I get very little opportunity to discuss philosophy during the day (aside from this list, of course). If store managers are losing money because they can't ring sales, they're usually not in the mood to talk about Hegel :-) So I like to see a movie or tv series every now and again that goes a little deeper than, say, Big boom good. ;-) Reggie Bautista Looking Forward To Hulk Smash Maru _ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Gary wrote: It is not surprising that the plot lines to Thirteenth Floor and Matrix were so similar. It seems that similar movies tend to appear together - for example - Armageddon and Deep Impact. Matrix was released March 31, 1999 and Thirteenth Floor was released mid April 1999. The way I understand it, a lot of times if a studio hears that another studio is doing a particular kind of movie, especially if that movie is going to be high-budget and well-advertised, they will try to rush through a similar movie to try to ride the coat-tails of the other studio's advertising. This happens in television also. And sometimes, multiple authors will have similar ideas more or less simultaneously as a reaction to something happening in their culture or as a reaction to a new scientific discovery. I always find it interesting when I run across two stories or novels that were published so close together that neither oe could possibly be stealing from the other, yet they cover much of the same territory. As artists, they are reacting similarly to similar input from the environment. I wonder if anyone has ever studied this phenomenon... Reggie Bautista Questions Maru _ Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Jan wrote, in regards to the Matrix sequel: Speaking of eye candy, anyone notice the distinct lack of hot women? Lots of hot boys I understand, but no really sexy girls. It's all buck and no doe. I've seen the women the bros run around with, so what's the deal? That all depends on how you define hot. One of the people I saw the movie with was particularly impressed by the actress who played Persephone. Another thought that Morpheus' ex was pretty hot. And some people swear by Trinity's good looks... Reggie Bautista But I'm Not One Of Them Maru _ MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
- Original Message - From: Reggie Bautista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, June 09, 2003 5:45 PM Subject: RE: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers And sometimes, multiple authors will have similar ideas more or less simultaneously as a reaction to something happening in their culture or as a reaction to a new scientific discovery. I always find it interesting when I run across two stories or novels that were published so close together that neither oe could possibly be stealing from the other, yet they cover much of the same territory. As artists, they are reacting similarly to similar input from the environment. I wonder if anyone has ever studied this phenomenon... There have been several studies done concerning synchronicity, but I don't believe there have been any real conclusions made, only more questions asked. Isn't that a Jungian term? Anyone? xponent One Question Leads To Another Maru rob ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
At 05:49 PM 6/9/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote: Jan wrote, in regards to the Matrix sequel: Speaking of eye candy, anyone notice the distinct lack of hot women? Lots of hot boys I understand, but no really sexy girls. It's all buck and no doe. I've seen the women the bros run around with, so what's the deal? That all depends on how you define hot. One of the people I saw the movie with was particularly impressed by the actress who played Persephone. Another thought that Morpheus' ex was pretty hot. And some people swear by Trinity's good looks... Reggie Bautista But I'm Not One Of Them Maru I personally preferred the way she looked when she was on _Dark Justice_¹, before she got all buffed . . . _ ¹When she played a character who worked for the judge who was played by the actor who was the father of Linda Hamilton's child which she had before she got buffed . . . Just To Keep The Buffed Women Straight Maru -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Gary Nunn wrote: Yea, I guess I am hoping that if they are at least clever enough to steal from philosophy then they are clever enough to steal from Level 13, Brazil, Dark Planet, level 13 (the movie), Max Headroom, etc. _ Jan William Coffey Do you mean The Thirteenth Floor? I couldn't find any reference to 'Level 13 on the IMDB. It is not surprising that the plot lines to Thirteenth Floor and Matrix were so similar. It seems that similar movies tend to appear together - for example - Armageddon and Deep Impact. Matrix was released March 31, 1999 and Thirteenth Floor was released mid April 1999. Don't forget Dark City and ExistenZ -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Jan Coffey wrote: --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/7/2003 2:36:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In addition, how does this all work? where does the energy to power the humans come from? We get out energy from food, which inevitably get's it's energy from Sol. So in the story, where does the energy for the food come from? Using humans or any other animal as an energy source is of course foolish since the energy needed to create a human is far greater than the energy that the human can generate. You could run machines on plants thus converting sunlight into complex carbohydrates that can be used as fuel. But why bother with this - just use mechanical devices to collect solar energy. Sorry the sun has gone out, or, so says Morpheus, but he has been wrong before hasn't he? I believe the story to be much thicker than most give it credit for...but hay, I give Keyono much more credit as an actor than many as well. We shall have to wait and see. I hope they come up with something original. My opinion, the sun didn't go out, or if it did the machines are not enslaving mankind. IIRC, the sun is still there, but they have some kind of nuclear winter. My guess, mankind no-longer exists as humanoids, or if they are, they escaped into the matrix. Or were put their to facilitate a long voyage. like _The Gods Themselves_ by Asimov? -- Matt ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Gary Nunn wrote: For example, in the Matrix universe, what functional reason would the machines have for plugging humans into a simulation (besides the obvious of being a plot device)? Maybe the machines, who presumably were once enslaved by humanity, are now obsessed with enslaving humanity in return. I've seen some of the other comments challenging the writing of the movies. As science fiction, The Matrix and sequel(s) certainly have problems. But as a reading of the Merovingian Heresy and as a Gnostic philosophy parable, The Matrix and Matrix: Reloaded really hang together quite nicely. The philosophical stuff that is spouted in great gouts in the second movie by General Exposition (or The Merovingian) is not filler, it is in fact the heart of the movie, at least as far as the philosophy-obsessed Wachowski brothers are concerned. Reggie Bautista _ The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
For example, in the Matrix universe, what functional reason would the machines have for plugging humans into a simulation (besides the obvious of being a plot device)? Maybe the machines, who presumably were once enslaved by humanity, are now obsessed with enslaving humanity in return. I thought the argument was thatz the humans work better wehen stimulated by the simulation. Better working humans will produce more energy for the machines. - klaus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Using humans or any other animal as an energy source is of course foolish since the energy needed to create a human is far greater than the energy that the human can generate. You could run machines on plants thus converting sunlight into complex carbohydrates that can be used as fuel. But why bother with this - just use mechanical devices to collect solar energy. Uh, I guess the human are farmed for other kind of energy than the one which we know. As one can see, the energy which is farmed in the movie The Matrix forms very interesting spark forms, which do not relate to any form of energy we know so far. What The Matrix really extracts from the people is money. As you may have noticed when visting the cinema. And also, when you noticed that you'll have to watch ANOTHER film, because the current one is unfinished. Best regards, KLaus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
I mean, Morpheus may not have been perfect, but I find Laurence Fishburne to be very easy on the eyes. And I'm not complaining about Keanu Reeves, either. Yes, all we talk about is _eyes_. Not ears. My ears were definitely NOT entertained by the dialogues (and monologues). Best regards, Klaus ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
--- Reggie Bautista [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Gary Nunn wrote: For example, in the Matrix universe, what functional reason would the machines have for plugging humans into a simulation (besides the obvious of being a plot device)? Maybe the machines, who presumably were once enslaved by humanity, are now obsessed with enslaving humanity in return. I've seen some of the other comments challenging the writing of the movies. As science fiction, The Matrix and sequel(s) certainly have problems. But as a reading of the Merovingian Heresy and as a Gnostic philosophy parable, Yea, I guess I am hoping that if they are at least clever enough to steal from philosophy then they are clever enough to steal from Level 13, Brazil, Dark Planet, level 13 (the movie), Max Headroom, etc. And if they are creative enough to do the special effects they are pulling off, then perhaps they are creative enough to steal with some style and drop us a new twist or two that were not in the source material. I am willing to go along with the eye candy for the sake of the eye candy while I wait to see if the story ends up having any merit. Speaking of eye candy, anyone notice the distinct lack of hot women? Lots of hot boys I understand, but no really sexy girls. It's all buck and no doe. I've seen the women the bros run around with, so what's the deal? = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Yea, I guess I am hoping that if they are at least clever enough to steal from philosophy then they are clever enough to steal from Level 13, Brazil, Dark Planet, level 13 (the movie), Max Headroom, etc. _ Jan William Coffey Do you mean The Thirteenth Floor? I couldn't find any reference to 'Level 13 on the IMDB. It is not surprising that the plot lines to Thirteenth Floor and Matrix were so similar. It seems that similar movies tend to appear together - for example - Armageddon and Deep Impact. Matrix was released March 31, 1999 and Thirteenth Floor was released mid April 1999. Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
--- Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yea, I guess I am hoping that if they are at least clever enough to steal from philosophy then they are clever enough to steal from Level 13, Brazil, Dark Planet, level 13 (the movie), Max Headroom, etc. _ Jan William Coffey Do you mean The Thirteenth Floor? I couldn't find any reference to 'Level 13 on the IMDB. It is not surprising that the plot lines to Thirteenth Floor and Matrix were so similar. Yea, sorry, Level 13 was short story and a TV show. The movie was called 13th Floor. It seems that similar movies tend to appear together - for example - Armageddon and Deep Impact. Matrix was released March 31, 1999 and Thirteenth Floor was released mid April 1999. What happens is that a script goes to be sold at different production companies. If it is turned away from one, but then picked up at another, the one (or more) sometimes change their minds and either create something similar and put it on the rush, or buy another similar script. Existenz was a 99 movie as well. :) = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
At 11:27 AM 6/8/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote: Gary Nunn wrote: For example, in the Matrix universe, what functional reason would the machines have for plugging humans into a simulation (besides the obvious of being a plot device)? Maybe the machines, who presumably were once enslaved by humanity, are now obsessed with enslaving humanity in return. I've seen some of the other comments challenging the writing of the movies. As science fiction, The Matrix and sequel(s) certainly have problems. But as a reading of the Merovingian Heresy and as a Gnostic philosophy parable, The Matrix and Matrix: Reloaded really hang together quite nicely. The philosophical stuff that is spouted in great gouts in the second movie by General Exposition (or The Merovingian) is not filler, it is in fact the heart of the movie, at least as far as the philosophy-obsessed Wachowski brothers are concerned. Uh, I get enough discussion of philosophy in the course of a normal day. Can't I go to a movie just to be entertained? ;-) -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: At 11:27 AM 6/8/03 -0500, Reggie Bautista wrote: I've seen some of the other comments challenging the writing of the movies. As science fiction, The Matrix and sequel(s) certainly have problems. But as a reading of the Merovingian Heresy and as a Gnostic philosophy parable, The Matrix and Matrix: Reloaded really hang together quite nicely. The philosophical stuff that is spouted in great gouts in the second movie by General Exposition (or The Merovingian) is not filler, it is in fact the heart of the movie, at least as far as the philosophy-obsessed Wachowski brothers are concerned. Uh, I get enough discussion of philosophy in the course of a normal day. Can't I go to a movie just to be entertained? Yeah, what he said. And why hasn't anyone mentioned the explosions? With good enough explosions, who *needs* good writing, anyway? If I want good writing, I'll read a book! Julia who really likes good explosions in movies, and who felt totally *gypped* at the end of Duel [http://us.imdb.com/Title?0067023] ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Sometimes I have far too much time to think about things on the way to work. For example, in the Matrix universe, what functional reason would the machines have for plugging humans into a simulation (besides the obvious of being a plot device)? Wouldn't the power generation ability of humans be the same if they were in a vegetative state? It seems like the overhead of the simulation would not be worth the effort or even necessary for their purpose, not to mention the positive of not having to deal with the pesky and unruly humans in the simulation. Gary ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Forget it. Humans are not a rational source of energy at all. The Matrix plotline is absurd. Just watch the graphics and the fight scenes, and turn off your brain. Or better yet, don't watch it at all. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
--- Gary Nunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sometimes I have far too much time to think about things on the way to work. For example, in the Matrix universe, what functional reason would the machines have for plugging humans into a simulation (besides the obvious of being a plot device)? Wouldn't the power generation ability of humans be the same if they were in a vegetative state? It seems like the overhead of the simulation would not be worth the effort or even necessary for their purpose, not to mention the positive of not having to deal with the pesky and unruly humans in the simulation. Gary In addition, how does this all work? where does the energy to power the humans come from? We get out energy from food, which inevitably get's it's energy from Sol. So in the story, where does the energy for the food come from? Do you think there will be an answer to these issues? What would that answer be? = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
Erik Reuter wrote: Forget it. Humans are not a rational source of energy at all. The Matrix plotline is absurd. Just watch the graphics and the fight scenes, and turn off your brain. Or better yet, don't watch it at all. I found the admission price to be worth the graphics, the fight scenes, and the people whom I find to be eye-candy. (Your tastes may (probably?) vary from mine.) I mean, Morpheus may not have been perfect, but I find Laurence Fishburne to be very easy on the eyes. And I'm not complaining about Keanu Reeves, either. I just wanted to be entertained. And I was. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
In a message dated 6/7/2003 2:36:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In addition, how does this all work? where does the energy to power the humans come from? We get out energy from food, which inevitably get's it's energy from Sol. So in the story, where does the energy for the food come from? Using humans or any other animal as an energy source is of course foolish since the energy needed to create a human is far greater than the energy that the human can generate. You could run machines on plants thus converting sunlight into complex carbohydrates that can be used as fuel. But why bother with this - just use mechanical devices to collect solar energy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
In a message dated 6/7/2003 2:36:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In addition, how does this all work? where does the energy to power the humans come from? We get out energy from food, which inevitably get's it's energy from Sol. So in the story, where does the energy for the food come from? Using humans or any other animal as an energy source is of course foolish since the energy needed to create a human is far greater than the energy that the human can generate. You could run machines on plants thus converting sunlight into complex carbohydrates that can be used as fuel. But why bother with this - just use mechanical devices to collect solar energy. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 6/7/2003 2:36:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In addition, how does this all work? where does the energy to power the humans come from? We get out energy from food, which inevitably get's it's energy from Sol. So in the story, where does the energy for the food come from? Using humans or any other animal as an energy source is of course foolish since the energy needed to create a human is far greater than the energy that the human can generate. You could run machines on plants thus converting sunlight into complex carbohydrates that can be used as fuel. But why bother with this - just use mechanical devices to collect solar energy. Sorry the sun has gone out, or, so says Morpheus, but he has been wrong before hasn't he? I believe the story to be much thicker than most give it credit for...but hay, I give Keyono much more credit as an actor than many as well. My opinion, the sun didn't go out, or if it did the machines are not enslaving mankind. My guess, mankind no-longer exists as humanoids, or if they are, they escaped into the matrix. Or were put their to facilitate a long voyage. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Calendar - Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM). http://calendar.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 10:11:54PM -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: My opinion, the sun didn't go out, or if it did the machines are not enslaving mankind. My guess, mankind no-longer exists as humanoids, or if they are, they escaped into the matrix. Or were put their to facilitate a long voyage. I think you are a much better story writer than the [ummm, I can't spell the W-name] writers of the Matrix. The quality of the writing is so poor that I can't imagine they came up with something as interesting as you suggest. I mean, they ended the first installment with You can't die, I love you! Okay, I won't die then. How cliche can you get? You will no doubt argue that such silliness was meant to clue us in to the fundamental unreality of the real world in the Matrix, but I don't buy it. I know bad writing when I see it. -- Erik Reuter [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Picking apart the Matrix - no spoilers
At 01:41 AM 6/8/03 -0400, Erik Reuter wrote: On Sat, Jun 07, 2003 at 10:11:54PM -0700, Jan Coffey wrote: My opinion, the sun didn't go out, or if it did the machines are not enslaving mankind. My guess, mankind no-longer exists as humanoids, or if they are, they escaped into the matrix. Or were put their to facilitate a long voyage. I think you are a much better story writer than the [ummm, I can't spell the W-name] writers of the Matrix. The quality of the writing is so poor that I can't imagine they came up with something as interesting as you suggest. I mean, they ended the first installment with You can't die, I love you! Okay, I won't die then. How cliche can you get? You will no doubt argue that such silliness was meant to clue us in to the fundamental unreality of the real world in the Matrix, but I don't buy it. I know bad writing when I see it. Which is at least part of the reason I was not all that impressed with the first one, and am in no particular hurry to see the sequelae . . . -- Ronn! :) God bless America, Land that I love! Stand beside her, and guide her Thru the night with a light from above. From the mountains, to the prairies, To the oceans, white with foam God bless America! My home, sweet home. -- Irving Berlin (1888-1989) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
