Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Hi, On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 03:02:30PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: olafbuddenha...@gmx.net, le Wed 04 Aug 2010 19:37:18 +0200, a écrit : On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 02:36:49PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: olafbuddenha...@gmx.net, le Sat 24 Jul 2010 04:08:51 +0200, a écrit : - A full-featured high-resolution console (probably framebuffer-based) For that, just a framebuffer would be enough, then bogl can be used. I was rather thinking of adapting the existing Hurd console system. That's not contradicting, actually. We can just use bogl's drawing primitives for the client part. Well, if we use KGI, GGIterm would be the obvious choice to base the code on. When we go DRI, I'm not aware of any existing terminal implementation that already supports the relevant interfaces -- so I guess bogl-term would be as good a base as any... -antrik-
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Hi, On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 05:24:24PM +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: Besides: Did something change from your usability report last year? Not fundamentally. Some new breakage -- gv for example has been broken for a while (epdfview works though, so not a real problem); or some breakage in the current mutt release (fixed in master). Some things probably improved (like stability), but this is not as easily felt as new breakage ;-) -antrik-
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
olafbuddenha...@gmx.net, le Wed 04 Aug 2010 19:37:18 +0200, a écrit : On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 02:36:49PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: olafbuddenha...@gmx.net, le Sat 24 Jul 2010 04:08:51 +0200, a écrit : - A full-featured high-resolution console (probably framebuffer-based) For that, just a framebuffer would be enough, then bogl can be used. I was rather thinking of adapting the existing Hurd console system. That's not contradicting, actually. We can just use bogl's drawing primitives for the client part. - Firefox (or perhaps some other full-featured browser) We should be close to this, there are only bugs that prevent iceweasel from working. Well, it's been in that state for several years now... :-) Sure, since nobody took any time to have a look at the issue. - mplayer: I guess it would actually be usable, if the aforementioned X jerkiness is fixed... No w32codecs though, which could be a problem. Not sure how often I actually need them. In my memory, thanks to marcus' sysv shm implementation, it became usable. I'm not sure. IIRC when some of the hurdfr guys tried it at FOSDEM 2005, it was basically working, but every 10 seconds or so it was grinding to a halt. Nobody investigated the real cause of this though, and I'm not aware of anyone trying it since... Ah, ok. Samuel
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On Thursday 12 August 2010 08:10:43 olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: However, I still refuse to run a graphics-centric environment, just to do my text-centric work on top of it. It makes no sense. I want a text-centric environment, with graphics capabilities as on optional addition; not the other way around. That’s how I currently use my OLPC :) I meant: Just using Linux on the laptop and Hurd on the desktop, so you don???t have to stop your Hurd to use Linux (I have normal uptimes of a few weeks, so I know how it hurts to restart the box :) ). That would be pretty much the same fallback setup I'm running right now; only with a Linux notebook instead of a linux desktop box... Ah, OK. Then it’s clear that that workaround wouldn’t help :) Besides: Did something change from your usability report last year? Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Hi, On Tue, Aug 10, 2010 at 09:17:34AM +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: What about console on X? Would that suffice for your needs? Oh, sorry, forgot to answer that question. No, it wouldn't suffice. If I was content with X, why would I ever want to port KGI?... Admittedly, X would probably be a pretty workable environment from a purely pragmatical point of view nowadays -- gnome-terminal makes a pretty good console replacement, after frobbing about half a dozen settings; and modern window managers like awesome are probably quite OK too. When I tried a couple of years ago with xterm and ion, it was too awkward... However, I still refuse to run a graphics-centric environment, just to do my text-centric work on top of it. It makes no sense. I want a text-centric environment, with graphics capabilities as on optional addition; not the other way around. I meant: Just using Linux on the laptop and Hurd on the desktop, so you don???t have to stop your Hurd to use Linux (I have normal uptimes of a few weeks, so I know how it hurts to restart the box :) ). That would be pretty much the same fallback setup I'm running right now; only with a Linux notebook instead of a linux desktop box... -antrik-
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On Wednesday 04 August 2010 19:25:26 olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: * Hurd related: - Boot on laptop ;) - Non-jerky X - Switching between console and X - A full-featured high-resolution console (doesn't good X suffice?) - WLAN - Ported Firefox - Flash * Others (have to be fixed, though): - NFS: climm, w3m, git Also USB, since it's often needed? Is that about right? Well, roughly. But it's really hard to simplify it like this. The original list has a lot of if's for a reason -- it really depends a lot on the setup I choose, and thus what workarounds I can apply... What about console on X? Would that suffice for your needs? If by pure Hurd environment you mean having no Linux boxes at all (not even the router) running in parallel, there are a few more showstoppers. That would be my ultimate wish: no dependency on other systems. Which of these would persist with Linux on the Laptop as backup? Most of them. Dual-booting is really too much pain for all but very sporadic use cases. I meant: Just using Linux on the laptop and Hurd on the desktop, so you don’t have to stop your Hurd to use Linux (I have normal uptimes of a few weeks, so I know how it hurts to restart the box :) ). Would that help? Or is it what you meant? Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On Wednesday 28 July 2010 14:13:44 Ivan Shmakov wrote: For those wishing for a better experience, a Linux kernel module version of Mach could be developed at some time later. That would be quite neat. Then adding Hurd to other distributions would be easy, too. Then, the sole question will be the tasks that Hurd covers. Eventually, some users may find that they use little or no native Linux modules, but instead use the Hurd ones. The transition to GNU/Hurd[/Linux] will be over for them. That sounds like the most powerful way to spread the Hurd. People could then create 3rd party programs which depend on the Hurd and run on every GNU/Linux distribution out there. Reasons for switching from GNU/Hurd/Linux to a Hurd without Linux could then be * have a cleaner system or * go GPLv3. Maybe also * „Linux gets pushed into directions I don’t like“. Do you see other reasons? Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Hi, On Thu, Jul 29, 2010 at 02:21:57PM +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: Am I right in reading your mail, that the real show stoppers for a pure Hurd environment for you are * Hurd related: - Boot on laptop ;) - Non-jerky X - Switching between console and X - A full-featured high-resolution console (doesn???t good X suffice?) - WLAN - Ported Firefox - Flash * Others (have to be fixed, though): - NFS: climm, w3m, git Also USB, since it???s often needed??? Is that about right? Well, roughly. But it's really hard to simplify it like this. The original list has a lot of if's for a reason -- it really depends a lot on the setup I choose, and thus what workarounds I can apply... If by pure Hurd environment you mean having no Linux boxes at all (not even the router) running in parallel, there are a few more showstoppers. Which of these would persist with Linux on the Laptop as backup? Most of them. Dual-booting is really too much pain for all but very sporadic use cases. -antrik-
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Hi, On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 07:13:44PM +0700, Ivan Shmakov wrote: olafbuddenha...@gmx.net writes: However, I have been planning to get an extra router box for quite some time now -- so that is really only a temporary consideration. (Holding me back so far is the excessive cost of suitable x86-based boxes, and the inconvenience and limitations of MIPS-based ones...) I'm not quite sure on what boxes were considered, but personally, I've ended up using an Intel Atom 330-based system in a Mini-ITX (InWin BM648) case as a router (1 Ethernet interface on-board + 1 PCI + 1 USB). I was thinking of something that actually resembles a normal router -- small, silent, robust, and not consuming more than a few watts. The problem is that standard WLAN routers have too little RAM to run Debian, and I don't feel like getting to grips with OpenWRT, or in fact any other distribution. My time is too precious for that. There are a few Geode-based x86 boxes that mostly fit the bill -- but the affordable ones all have three network ports at best. For a router, I want at least four or five -- I don't want to run an extra hub/switch, which would effectively double the power consumption... x86-based router-like machines with 4+ ports are very expensive OTOH. (Around 250 Euro at least.) I've also seen some pretty powerful MIPS-based router barebones (680 MHz, 256 MiB RAM) with enough ports. These are quite affordable actually at around 100 Euro. I'm just unsure whether the fact that they are MIPS-based rather than x86 wouldn't cause too much hassle... ??? message passing on top of Linux: ??? with a user-space daemon; ??? with a kernel module. Do I understand it correctly that once a Mach could be made to run in user-space (the same trick as with User-mode Linux), making Hurd run on top of it will be straightforward? This effectively makes the Hurd only a single command, namely: # apt-get install hurd away from from a J. Random (Debian) GNU/Linux user. For those wishing for a better experience, a Linux kernel module version of Mach could be developed at some time later. Then, the sole question will be the tasks that Hurd covers. Eventually, some users may find that they use little or no native Linux modules, but instead use the Hurd ones. The transition to GNU/Hurd[/Linux] will be over for them. Indeed that's a scenario I have been pondering for some time now. One of the many projects on my ToDo list... -antrik-
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Hi, On Wed, Jul 28, 2010 at 02:36:49PM +0200, Samuel Thibault wrote: olafbuddenha...@gmx.net, le Sat 24 Jul 2010 04:08:51 +0200, a écrit : - A full-featured high-resolution console (probably framebuffer-based) For that, just a framebuffer would be enough, then bogl can be used. I was rather thinking of adapting the existing Hurd console system. - Firefox (or perhaps some other full-featured browser) We should be close to this, there are only bugs that prevent iceweasel from working. Well, it's been in that state for several years now... :-) Of course I do hope to take a look at this some day -- but then, there are so many other things I want to take a look at... - Bookmarking in w3m: I guess I could live without that; but it's really an annoyance. Might be another NFS problem -- haven't investigated yet. Possibly record locking issue? Hm, sounds plausible. But I guess there is no point in guessing here -- this is probably something that could be tracked down pretty easily with a debugger, once I get around to it. - mplayer: I guess it would actually be usable, if the aforementioned X jerkiness is fixed... No w32codecs though, which could be a problem. Not sure how often I actually need them. In my memory, thanks to marcus' sysv shm implementation, it became usable. I'm not sure. IIRC when some of the hurdfr guys tried it at FOSDEM 2005, it was basically working, but every 10 seconds or so it was grinding to a halt. Nobody investigated the real cause of this though, and I'm not aware of anyone trying it since... -antrik-
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Samuel Thibault samuel.thiba...@gnu.org writes: Ivan Shmakov, le Wed 28 Jul 2010 19:13:44 +0700, a écrit : - PPPoE/routing/NAT/packet filtering. I'd much appreciate IPv6 support, and there will be virtually no need for NAT for me then. AIUI, IPv6 is already supported. Indeed. Somehow, I've failed to notice that. • message passing on top of Linux: – with a user-space daemon; Zheng Da's DDE work, yes. As per [1], it's quite the contrary: running Linux device drivers in user-space with Mach as the host kernel, while I'm suggesting running Linux as the host, and Mach in user-space. Somehow, I think that the latter would be a bit easier to achieve. Do I understand it correctly that once a Mach could be made to run in user-space (the same trick as with User-mode Linux), making Hurd run on top of it will be straightforward? I'd tend to think that, yes. You just need to be able to catch the few kernel traps (there are really only few of them), and off you go. The Xen port, for instance, didn't need *any* change below GNU Mach. ACK, thanks. [1] http://www.gnu.org/software/hurd/dde.html -- FSF associate member #7257 pgpwQFz25dlDF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On Fri, Jul 30, 2010 at 12:18:32PM +0700, Ivan Shmakov wrote: Samuel Thibault samuel.thiba...@gnu.org writes: Ivan Shmakov, le Wed 28 Jul 2010 19:13:44 +0700, a écrit : - PPPoE/routing/NAT/packet filtering. I'd much appreciate IPv6 support, and there will be virtually no need for NAT for me then. AIUI, IPv6 is already supported. Indeed. Somehow, I've failed to notice that. • message passing on top of Linux: – with a user-space daemon; Zheng Da's DDE work, yes. As per [1], it's quite the contrary: running Linux device drivers in user-space with Mach as the host kernel, while I'm suggesting running Linux as the host, and Mach in user-space. Ah. That depends on where you interpret on top of :) Somehow, I think that the latter would be a bit easier to achieve. It's not so clear to me. Yes, given the amount of work a glue code represents it's probably easier. But DDE already does a lot of it, and antrik has been testing Zheng Da's network encapsulation for a long time now without problem except not being able to open the device from two pfinets. Samuel
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On Saturday 24 July 2010 04:08:51 olafbuddenha...@gmx.net wrote: Not sure why you want to exclude me here :-) That was just because you already said what’s missing. But your list here is much more useful, so the excluding was clearly wrong :) Am I right in reading your mail, that the real show stoppers for a pure Hurd environment for you are * Hurd related: - Boot on laptop ;) - Non-jerky X - Switching between console and X - A full-featured high-resolution console (doesn’t good X suffice?) - WLAN - Ported Firefox - Flash * Others (have to be fixed, though): - NFS: climm, w3m, git Also USB, since it’s often needed… Is that about right? Which of these would persist with Linux on the Laptop as backup? Best wishes, Arne signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part.
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Hi, On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 08:41:49AM +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: This message goes to all who (different from Olaf aka antrik) don???t yet use the Hurd for their day-to-day tasks (if you do, please write anyway that it fullfills your (basic?) needs). What is currently missing in the Hurd distibutions to make it fullfill your basic needs for your day-to-day work or hobby? Ideally on real hardware, alternatively in qemu/virtualbox/XEN/??? Not sure why you want to exclude me here :-) While I try to use the Hurd for most of my everyday stuff as a matter of principle, I can only do so by running a GNU/Linux box in parallel -- so it would be a bit of a stretch to claim that the Hurd is ready to be my primary system... So, what's missing? Some of the same things listed by others; but also a number of more specific issues. For my desktop: - PPPoE/routing/NAT/packet filtering. However, I have been planning to get an extra router box for quite some time now -- so that is really only a temporary consideration. (Holding me back so far is the excessive cost of suitable x86-based boxes, and the inconvenience and limitations of MIPS-based ones...) - Sound: I'm not using it often; but often (and sponteanous) enough, to make dual-booting -- or powering on an extra box -- not really a feasible option. I guess I could buy a USB soundcard for the aforementioned router box though, and run a sound server... Not ideal, but an acceptable solution -- so not really a show-stopper here. - USB: This is not critical, as both by mouse and keyboard still do PS/2. I only need USB for pluggable devices (printer, memory stick, camera etc.) -- I guess I could use the router again for that. Could be quite inconvenient in some situations though... - A full-featured high-resolution console (probably framebuffer-based) - Non-jerky X. While I prefer avoiding X alltogether, it's not really feasible for many applications. - Switching between console and X - Firefox (or perhaps some other full-featured browser) - History in climm with an NFS home. This is not really a Hurd issue: it also causes problems with Linux clients -- but it's worse on Hurd. So either climm, or Hurd's NFS client need fixing. - Bookmarking in w3m: I guess I could live without that; but it's really an annoyance. Might be another NFS problem -- haven't investigated yet. - Git with NFS. No idea whether this is Hurd-related, or Git just doesn't like NFS in general... (If I could really use the Hurd box for almost everything, I might not really need NFS home anymore -- avoiding the problems mentioned above. I'm rather undecided on this. One of the things I intend to do with the router box, is permanently running an IRC client on it -- it would be nice if it could just use the same home. Also, I'd like to access my home when logging in remotely, while only the router is powered on. Furthermore, a shared home would still be convenient for some of the workarounds mentioned above... OTOH, if the home directory is served by the router box, it most likely would have to be on a 2.5 drive, and possibly connected with USB -- not an ideal solution either...) - pinfo: probably just a simple bug to fix; but haven't investigated it yet. I don't use info manuals too often anyways, so I might be able to live without that... - man also used to fail; but IIRC Samuel fixed it a while back. - mplayer: I guess it would actually be usable, if the aforementioned X jerkiness is fixed... No w32codecs though, which could be a problem. Not sure how often I actually need them. - Flash: While youtube-dl+mplayer covers the by far most important use case for Flash, there are still some others that are hard to avoid. So Gnash and/or swfdec would have to be available -- and at least Gnash would have to work much better in general... (Not sure how well swfdec works.) I'm pretty sure there are a couple more problems, but I can't remember them right now. All in all, *if* I get the router box, there is not too much missing. (Though considering the necessary workarounds, one might still argue the validity of the primary system claim...) The biggest problem area is probably console and X. For my notebook: - First of all, gnumach would have to boot on my T40... (Might actually be a GRUB problem though -- haven't checked yet.) - WLAN: I hate it passionately -- but on the road, it's often the only way to get network :-( - I'm also considering getting wireless WAN as addition/alternative. - USB: Not as important actually as on the desktop. For the occasional use of memory sticks, I guess dual-booting would be acceptable. Might be a problem though to get a non-USB WWAN adapter. Also, if USB is available, WLAN/WWAN could be handled by a smartphone instead of native support... - Sound is broken on my notebook, so no support needed ;-) Not as important as on the desktop anyways. I'm not sure about the requirements
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
olafbuddenha...@gmx.net, le Sat 24 Jul 2010 04:08:51 +0200, a écrit : - A full-featured high-resolution console (probably framebuffer-based) For that, just a framebuffer would be enough, then bogl can be used. - Firefox (or perhaps some other full-featured browser) We should be close to this, there are only bugs that prevent iceweasel from working. - Bookmarking in w3m: I guess I could live without that; but it's really an annoyance. Might be another NFS problem -- haven't investigated yet. Possibly record locking issue? - man also used to fail; but IIRC Samuel fixed it a while back. I fixed one bug there, yes. - mplayer: I guess it would actually be usable, if the aforementioned X jerkiness is fixed... No w32codecs though, which could be a problem. Not sure how often I actually need them. In my memory, thanks to marcus' sysv shm implementation, it became usable. Samuel
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
olafbuddenha...@gmx.net writes: […] For my desktop: - PPPoE/routing/NAT/packet filtering. I'd much appreciate IPv6 support, and there will be virtually no need for NAT for me then. (There's an obvious interest in P2P in the free software community, and effective use of P2P at the world scale is only possible with IPv6.) However, I have been planning to get an extra router box for quite some time now -- so that is really only a temporary consideration. (Holding me back so far is the excessive cost of suitable x86-based boxes, and the inconvenience and limitations of MIPS-based ones...) I'm not quite sure on what boxes were considered, but personally, I've ended up using an Intel Atom 330-based system in a Mini-ITX (InWin BM648) case as a router (1 Ethernet interface on-board + 1 PCI + 1 USB). Of course, it runs Exim, Rsync, Apache, read-only public NFS, Tor, some traffic accounting, etc. just as well. […] But once again I wonder, given the sheer variety of drivers' code written for Linux, how NOT to duplicate the effort? To my mind, the approaches considered so far were: • glue code; • Xen with a Linux-based dom0; • message passing on top of Linux: – with a user-space daemon; – with a kernel module. Do I understand it correctly that once a Mach could be made to run in user-space (the same trick as with User-mode Linux), making Hurd run on top of it will be straightforward? This effectively makes the Hurd only a single command, namely: # apt-get install hurd away from from a J. Random (Debian) GNU/Linux user. For those wishing for a better experience, a Linux kernel module version of Mach could be developed at some time later. Then, the sole question will be the tasks that Hurd covers. Eventually, some users may find that they use little or no native Linux modules, but instead use the Hurd ones. The transition to GNU/Hurd[/Linux] will be over for them. -- FSF associate member #7257 pgp00wS3s5s4T.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Ivan Shmakov, le Wed 28 Jul 2010 19:13:44 +0700, a écrit : - PPPoE/routing/NAT/packet filtering. I'd much appreciate IPv6 support, and there will be virtually no need for NAT for me then. AIUI, IPv6 is already supported. • message passing on top of Linux: – with a user-space daemon; Zheng Da's DDE work, yes. Do I understand it correctly that once a Mach could be made to run in user-space (the same trick as with User-mode Linux), making Hurd run on top of it will be straightforward? I'd tend to think that, yes. You just need to be able to catch the few kernel traps (there are really only few of them), and off you go. The Xen port, for instance, didn't need *any* change below GNU Mach. Samuel
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On 15/07/10 17:54, Samuel Thibault wrote: Emilio Pozuelo Monfort, le Wed 14 Jul 2010 21:13:11 +0200, a écrit : - Support for modern processors (Intel Core 2 Duo, I've heard anything newer than Pentium III may not work) I'd actually say that anything may not work, be it newer than Pentium III or not. If there's an issue, people should report it, because AFAIK, there's no known issue ATM. I'll try the new d-i when I have time and report back if they (d-i and my processor) work or not. Emilio
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Emilio Pozuelo Monfort, le Wed 14 Jul 2010 21:13:11 +0200, a écrit : - Support for modern processors (Intel Core 2 Duo, I've heard anything newer than Pentium III may not work) I'd actually say that anything may not work, be it newer than Pentium III or not. If there's an issue, people should report it, because AFAIK, there's no known issue ATM. Samuel
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On 12/07/10 08:41, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: What is currently missing in the Hurd distibutions to make it fullfill your basic needs for your day-to-day work or hobby? Ideally on real hardware, alternatively in qemu/virtualbox/XEN/… I'd first need to (try to) install it on my desktop (real HW) to see if it works, and if it doesn't, that would be the first thing missing on Hurd. But the list would probably have - Support for modern processors (Intel Core 2 Duo, I've heard anything newer than Pentium III may not work) - Maybe SATA support (not sure if my BIOS can emulate IDE) - USB support (no PS2 ports here) When that was there and I could boot into Hurd and have a console working, the next step would be to have a desktop environment (preferably GNOME). I should stop making GNOME build and start to test that it also works :) Regards, Emilio
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
Sorry for chiming in here, maybe this is a shot in the dark. Grub has made some progress with USB interfaces by Ales Nesrsta, see e.g. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2010-07/msg00079.html Can this (GNU) work be reusable for Hurd? Svante Signell GNU and Hurd supporter
[Fwd: Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?]
This reply does not seem to have made it to bug-hurd. Maybe not so usable to get support for USB in Hurd, but anyway. Forwarded Message From: Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko phco...@gmail.com Reply-to: The development of GNU GRUB grub-de...@gnu.org To: grub-de...@gnu.org Subject: Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks? Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2010 11:09:59 +0200 On 07/13/2010 08:33 AM, Svante Signell wrote: Sorry for chiming in here, maybe this is a shot in the dark. Grub has made some progress with USB interfaces by Ales Nesrsta, see e.g. http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/grub-devel/2010-07/msg00079.html Can this (GNU) work be reusable for Hurd? GRUB USB stack isn't meant for a complete OS. It works in polling mode which has only minimal impact in bootloader but will stall the CPU in a real kernel. Licensing can be another problem: I don't know if Hurd has already made it to GPLv3+. If the subsystem is useful technically we can look into it but a priori it's not a good place to copy from Svante Signell GNU and Hurd supporter ___ Grub-devel mailing list grub-de...@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel -- Regards Vladimir 'φ-coder/phcoder' Serbinenko ___ Grub-devel mailing list grub-de...@gnu.org http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/grub-devel
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On Mon, Jul 12, 2010 at 08:41:49AM +0200, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: What is missing for you? Sound support, wireless, and PPPoE. I could probably factor out these to a seperate router/sound box but at that point I might as well just run Hurd in in kvm and use the host as the support box, which is pretty much what I'm currently doing except that I only use Hurd for testing. Regards, Fredrik
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
On 12/07/10 07:41, Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: What is currently missing in the Hurd distibutions to make it fullfill your basic needs for your day-to-day work or hobby? Ideally on real hardware, alternatively in qemu/virtualbox/XEN/… In order of importance: -USB (can't do backups/access my external hdds with data) -Sound (need music to work live!) -3D acceleration (I need to visualize 3d protein structures, and GLX-capable software is a must) -Wireless (well, not 100% essential but highly helpful, difficult to live without)
Re: What do you need from the Hurd for your day-to-day tasks?
One of my aims in starting Arch Hurd was to end up with a system which could run on my server, maybe also my netbook. There are only a few things (alas, big things) before I can do that. In order of importance: Server: * USB * Sound * SATA Netbook: * SATA * USB * Sound * Wireless One of the major functions of my server is sharing USB HDDs across the network, and another is playing music. So whilst Hurd can do more or less everything else, it can't yet fulfil two of my main motivations for building a server in the first place. Neither my netbook nor server can put SATA drives in PATA legacy mode, though my server does have an IDE connector on the motherboard. -- Michael Walker (http://www.barrucadu.co.uk) Arch Hurd Developer; GNU Webmaster; FSF member #8385 http://www.archhurd.org http://www.gnu.org http://www.fsf.org
