[CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: Honestly, I had no one in mind. I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post, don't trim, and still use aol. It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either convention actually causes. I still remember the rage sparked on the Usenet by some old timers when people started using JPEG and MIME rather than GIF and uuencoding. Oh, the horror of it. Oh, BTW: vim over emacs. ;-) -- Benjamin Franz Asperger's are wonderful people but they can be very difficult to get along with. The expression would argue with a signpost comes to mind. - John Wilkins, blog comment, May 24 2006 ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
I agree!!! On 08/12/2010 16:46, Jerry Franz wrote: On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: Honestly, I had no one in mind. I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post, don't trim, and still use aol. It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either convention actually causes. I still remember the rage sparked on the Usenet by some old timers when people started using JPEG and MIME rather than GIF and uuencoding. Oh, the horror of it. Oh, BTW: vim over emacs. ;-) -- Best Regards, Giles Coochey NetSecSpec Ltd NL T-Systems Mobile: +31 681 265 086 NL Mobile: +31 626 508 131 Gib Mobile: +350 5401 6693 Email/MSN/Live Messenger: gi...@coochey.net Skype: gilescoochey smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
On Wed, 2010-12-08 at 07:46 -0800, Jerry Franz wrote: On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: Honestly, I had no one in mind. I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post, don't trim, and still use aol. It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either convention actually causes. Ok, well then you call be religiously intolerant. I care; for what I sincerely believe to be very *practical* reasons. Top-Post messages are often quite confusing; they often respond to one point in a longer message - and you don't have any idea which one. And the don't encourage trimming which makes reading a message resulting from a thread really bad. I use e-mail, especially archives, to research problems and issues - so readability matters. Trust me [which of course you won't seeing as you already dismissed my point of view] but it *REALLY MATTERS* when going back and reading e-mail how the poster(s) managed the message's contents. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
Jerry Franz wrote: On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: Honestly, I had no one in mind. I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post, don't trim, and still use aol. It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other The damn thing is a conversation. Top posting is talking over everyone else. electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either convention actually causes. So, we should put up with rudeness and obnoxious behavior? See my post about when AOHell got on the 'Net. I still remember the rage sparked on the Usenet by some old timers when people started using JPEG and MIME rather than GIF and uuencoding. Oh, the horror of it. Don't remember lots of yelling. Oh, BTW: vim over emacs. alt.religion.editors g mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
Responses inline. -Original Message- From: centos-boun...@centos.org [mailto:centos-boun...@centos.org] On Behalf Of m.r...@5-cent.us Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 11:13 To: CentOS mailing list Subject: Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?) Jerry Franz wrote: On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: Honestly, I had no one in mind. I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post, don't trim, and still use aol. It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other The damn thing is a conversation. Top posting is talking over everyone else. I had a customer blast me about inlined responses, it drove me bonkers. I was responding to 15 individual questions. electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either convention actually causes. So, we should put up with rudeness and obnoxious behavior? The above mention customer continued to indicate how unprofessional I was by not top posting my reply. The reason was there was no instruction to the reader that they should review the WHOLE email for new information. So now I can demonstrate good business etiquite and good netiquite. See first line of email. P.S. I use outlook. I set it to Plain Text, and I move my cursor to where I want to type. Thanks for hearing my rants too. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- - - - Jason Pyeron PD Inc. http://www.pdinc.us - - Principal Consultant 10 West 24th Street #100- - +1 (443) 269-1555 x333Baltimore, Maryland 21218 - - - -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- This message is copyright PD Inc, subject to license 20080407P00. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
On 12/8/2010 9:46 AM, Jerry Franz wrote: On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: Honestly, I had no one in mind. I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post, don't trim, and still use aol. It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other electronic communications. The distinction is kind of blurring in these days of huge multi-national companies, but business and personal email tends to have quick responses where you normally remember the previous content and don't need it at all for context but might want the whole thread for an audit trail. By contrast, mail list mail messages are likely to be seen by many people who did not see the previous exchange(s) or care enough about them to remember. So they need the context quoted correctly to understand the reply. Also, they are likely to be using a search to find archived messages and leaving content that is unrelated to the current reply screws up the ability to find anything. The rage we see here over it is really just another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change well. No, there are very practical reasons and the point is to educate others with obvious inexperience as to how to make their input better for others which after all, should be the main reason for typing it in the first place. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either convention actually causes. That's partly true - if someone rudely ignores time-proven conventions you can politely overlook it - for a while... -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] Nerd rage (Was: IPV4 is nearly depleted, are you ready for IPV6?)
-Original Message- Responses inline. Jerry Franz wrote: On 12/08/2010 07:03 AM, Scott Robbins wrote: Honestly, I had no one in mind. I remember in an effort to get a life outside tech, I joined a mailing list for something else. I hadn't realized how most people top post, don't trim, and still use aol. It really is worth noting that the bottom-post convention used on many technical lists *is not* how most of the planet now does email or other The damn thing is a conversation. Top posting is talking over everyone else. I had a customer blast me about inlined responses, it drove me bonkers. I was responding to 15 individual questions. I think that the missed point here is obey the rules of the list (I'm ignoring customers who find it hard to read ;-) ). If the rules state bottom posting only then that's it, no arguments. If you don't like the rules don't post/join etc. electronic communications. The rage we see here over it is really just another technical 'religious war' by people who don't tolerate change well. In reality, it doesn't matter much for most things either way and far more harm is done by the howling over it than using either convention actually causes. So, we should put up with rudeness and obnoxious behavior? I think that this http://catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html should be read in conjunction with the list rules. This helps to explain why some questions elicit things that might be considered rude. On other lists that I subscribe to they also take a dim view of top posting - specifically for the reasons of readability, i.e. top posting makes it difficult to pick up a thread mid conversation. Anyway, that's just my two-penneth worth... Simon. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
