Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On 01/09/2014 12:38 PM, Karanbir Singh wrote: hi, On 01/08/2014 02:47 PM, Yves Bellefeuille wrote: One thing that struck me in Karanbir's message was the marketing mumbo-jumbo such as the next generation of emerging technologies and a platform that is easily consumed. Karanbir usually writes better than that, so I suppose that someone else had a important role in drafting the message. i am sorry about that - some of those things came through in my attempt to reduce the post from just over 2400 words to under 1000. I didnt make it, it was still over a 1k words. But i do mean that, lots of really cool stuff was bootstrapped on CentOS, but not here - and in many cases, so far away from the project that people had to do it again and again. the voip setup for home/small users is the best example. if asterisk@home were done as a part of the centos community, how cool would that have been? the next generation of cool stuff is all also happening out there, and I really do want to bring as much of that into the centos community as possible - after all, we are a user and problem lead community, not a developer led one where someone is just churning out new code to see what works and what does not. its been hard to do in the past, mostly down to the constraints - Red Hat TM issues, protect the buildservice, handle 100+ sponsors, work on community issues, get that update out in the 45 min between dinner time and kid's bedtime etc. And remember, a critical artifact of this group : we are a user led community, not a developer led one. Massive win, in my opinion. But the lack of developer density has been a problem. And I dont know how much of that we will get access to, but at 0 we are already winning. right ? Now 'easily consumed'... becuase we can start opening up the buildsystem, publish all the scripts we write, post instance and image specs - and anyone/everyone is welcome to join the effort since the needs of privacy and secrecy are dramatically reduced ( i assure you, this is one of the top wins in my books ). Is this for real? Oracle are apparently a thorn in the side to RH and thus all the changes to C6 that caused lots of delays .. if this changes as indicated, doesn't that negate all those changes and give Oracle a leg up to getting their clone to market sooner? I guess I'm missing something Come join me in an officehours meetup ( http://wiki.centos.org/OfficeHours ) - lets talk about these things :) - KB ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On 01/09/2014 12:09 AM, Les Mikesell wrote: I'd throw SMEserver, ClearOS, and the old (up to CentOS5) version of K12LTSP in that bucket too. Maybe someone will roll a new K12LTSP that comes up working as installed again now. The focus from the project side is going to be creating the infra and resources that allows arbitary stuff like that to come in and be successful at doing what they are doing on CentOS. But keep in mind that opportunities to get involved will come up on both sides - ie. help the CentOS project do the buildout as well as on the SIG's side to do the work that people like k12ltsp folks need to consume those resources. Is this likely to result in Scientific Linux converging with the base version? That would be nice. And they are certainly welcome. -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On 01/09/2014 08:34 AM, Rob Kampen wrote: Is this for real? Oracle are apparently a thorn in the side to RH and thus all the changes to C6 that caused lots of delays .. if this changes as indicated, doesn't that negate all those changes and give Oracle a leg up to getting their clone to market sooner? I guess I'm missing something I really dont know how oracle's linux rebuild effort works - but as far as I -do- know, the sources are available at the same time to everyone right ? its a case of what you do with them and how you do it. Also, i think people are reading too far into the delays for C6 were caused by redhat - it was also down to limited resources, machines, time and almost no QA infra at .centos.org :: that contributed quite a lot. Things that we have overcome and built up in the last few years. Might also be worth noting that we have a centos7beta up internally already. Look at it another way - we are not working with the RHEL teams, we are working with the RH open source and standards team ( that has no real input into RHEL ) - to expand what we do with the platform, rather than carry on with the single focus of the platform. And I think being more open and more community driven, we -can- improve across the board. -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
As I see it, more and more alternatives to Oracle are in the market. Hadoop, is cutting into Oracle's revenue. So, RH needs to concentrate on promoting JBOSS and a version of HADOOP. Don't worry about Oracle. Regards Leslie Mr. Leslie Satenstein From: Karanbir Singh mail-li...@karan.org To: centos@centos.org Sent: Thursday, January 9, 2014 7:55 AM Subject: Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat On 01/09/2014 08:34 AM, Rob Kampen wrote: Is this for real? Oracle are apparently a thorn in the side to RH and thus all the changes to C6 that caused lots of delays .. if this changes as indicated, doesn't that negate all those changes and give Oracle a leg up to getting their clone to market sooner? I guess I'm missing something I really dont know how oracle's linux rebuild effort works - but as far as I -do- know, the sources are available at the same time to everyone right ? its a case of what you do with them and how you do it. Also, i think people are reading too far into the delays for C6 were caused by redhat - it was also down to limited resources, machines, time and almost no QA infra at .centos.org :: that contributed quite a lot. Things that we have overcome and built up in the last few years. Might also be worth noting that we have a centos7beta up internally already. Look at it another way - we are not working with the RHEL teams, we are working with the RH open source and standards team ( that has no real input into RHEL ) - to expand what we do with the platform, rather than carry on with the single focus of the platform. And I think being more open and more community driven, we -can- improve across the board. -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:55 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-li...@karan.org wrote: On 01/09/2014 08:34 AM, Rob Kampen wrote: Is this for real? Oracle are apparently a thorn in the side to RH and thus all the changes to C6 that caused lots of delays .. if this changes as indicated, doesn't that negate all those changes and give Oracle a leg up to getting their clone to market sooner? I guess I'm missing something I really dont know how oracle's linux rebuild effort works - but as far as I -do- know, the sources are available at the same time to everyone right ? its a case of what you do with them and how you do it. Also, i think people are reading too far into the delays for C6 were caused by redhat - it was also down to limited resources, machines, time and almost no QA infra at .centos.org :: that contributed quite a lot. Things that we have overcome and built up in the last few years. Might also be worth noting that we have a centos7beta up internally already. Look at it another way - we are not working with the RHEL teams, we are working with the RH open source and standards team ( that has no real input into RHEL ) - to expand what we do with the platform, rather than carry on with the single focus of the platform. And I think being more open and more community driven, we -can- improve across the board. At this point I really don't see why RedHat doesn't just offer RHEL + updates + extra channels for free and then only charge for support. This would put them on a real equal ground with Canonical. It would save money and time freeing up all the duplicated effort of ripping out all the redhat logos and rebuilding the core OS and then rebuilding all the updates. The core CentOS team and volunteers working on CentOS would be freed up and could focus their effort on extending third party open source projects mentioned earlier in the thread to work better with RHEL. Just my 2 cents. In any case, this is interesting news. Ever since the CentOS team got everything going smoothly for CentOS 6.x version, my biggest concern was Redhat’s continued use of extra paid for channels like software collections. I hope that things like software collections packages start getting timely releases with CentOS too. As always thank you so much for all the hard work! David C Miller. ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On 1/9/2014 11:26 AM, David Miller wrote: At this point I really don't see why RedHat doesn't just offer RHEL + updates + extra channels for free and then only charge for support. This would put them on a real equal ground with Canonical. I suspect doing so would cut heavily into their revenue stream, as many business IT operations types who are told they have to run RHEL because ___ requires it would just install it and never pay for support. by keeping the free version separately branded, however slight the actual difference, discourages this except by those in the know. -- john r pierce 37N 122W somewhere on the middle of the left coast ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 1:37 PM, John R Pierce pie...@hogranch.com wrote: On 1/9/2014 11:26 AM, David Miller wrote: At this point I really don't see why RedHat doesn't just offer RHEL + updates + extra channels for free and then only charge for support. This would put them on a real equal ground with Canonical. I suspect doing so would cut heavily into their revenue stream, as many business IT operations types who are told they have to run RHEL because ___ requires it would just install it and never pay for support. by keeping the free version separately branded, however slight the actual difference, discourages this except by those in the know. Probably has something to do with being able to require paid support for _all_ instances of RHEL you are running to get any. It then takes at least a little effort on the user's end to install CentOS on the less critical hosts instead of just cloning everything and paying for support on one copy. -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On 01/09/2014 08:26 PM, David Miller wrote: On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:55 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-li...@karan.org wrote: On 01/09/2014 08:34 AM, Rob Kampen wrote: Is this for real? Oracle are apparently a thorn in the side to RH and thus all the changes to C6 that caused lots of delays .. if this changes as indicated, doesn't that negate all those changes and give Oracle a leg up to getting their clone to market sooner? I guess I'm missing something I really dont know how oracle's linux rebuild effort works - but as far as I -do- know, the sources are available at the same time to everyone right ? its a case of what you do with them and how you do it. Also, i think people are reading too far into the delays for C6 were caused by redhat - it was also down to limited resources, machines, time and almost no QA infra at .centos.org :: that contributed quite a lot. Things that we have overcome and built up in the last few years. Might also be worth noting that we have a centos7beta up internally already. Look at it another way - we are not working with the RHEL teams, we are working with the RH open source and standards team ( that has no real input into RHEL ) - to expand what we do with the platform, rather than carry on with the single focus of the platform. And I think being more open and more community driven, we -can- improve across the board. At this point I really don't see why RedHat doesn't just offer RHEL + updates + extra channels for free and then only charge for support. This would put them on a real equal ground with Canonical. It would save money and time freeing up all the duplicated effort of ripping out all the redhat logos and rebuilding the core OS and then rebuilding all the updates. The core CentOS team and volunteers working on CentOS would be freed up and could focus their effort on extending third party open source projects mentioned earlier in the thread to work better with RHEL. Just my 2 cents. In any case, this is interesting news. Ever since the CentOS team got everything going smoothly for CentOS 6.x version, my biggest concern was Redhat’s continued use of extra paid for channels like software collections. I hope that things like software collections packages start getting timely releases with CentOS too. As always thank you so much for all the hard work! I see 2 problems with this. First is that it would create a conflict between free RHEL and CentOS, and would be seen as attempt in destroying CentOS. Second is supported on RHEL for many products. Today, when they want security/peace of mind/business insurance, you buy both RHEL and app to have support for app. With free RHEL they could only buy app and have that support without paying for RHEL support. It is same with SuSE and OpenSuSE, right? -- Ljubomir Ljubojevic (Love is in the Air) PL Computers Serbia, Europe StarOS, Mikrotik and CentOS/RHEL/Linux consultant ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On 1/9/2014 11:53 AM, Ljubomir Ljubojevic wrote: It is same with SuSE and OpenSuSE, right? opensuse is more like fedora -- john r pierce 37N 122W somewhere on the middle of the left coast ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
David Miller wrote: On Jan 9, 2014, at 4:55 AM, Karanbir Singh mail-li...@karan.org wrote: On 01/09/2014 08:34 AM, Rob Kampen wrote: snip Look at it another way - we are not working with the RHEL teams, we are working with the RH open source and standards team ( that has no real input into RHEL ) - to expand what we do with the platform, rather than carry on with the single focus of the platform. And I think being more open and more community driven, we -can- improve across the board. At this point I really don't see why RedHat doesn't just offer RHEL + updates + extra channels for free and then only charge for support. This would put them on a real equal ground with Canonical. It would save money That's an *easy* one to answer: try selling we can use it for free, we just download it from the net and install it Right. You want to see 66.6% of CTOs, much less 95% of CEOs, go with that as a business plan? They almost comprehensively want Someone To Get On The Phone (and I do *not* mean someone in India, with a heavy accent, asking if they're rebooted their computer) to resolve this within an SLA. Tell them you can try it out, and if they like the results, they can pay for a license and support for RHEL, the real thing, and that's a *lot* easier sell. mark ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On Thu, Jan 09, 2014 at 03:18:10PM -0500, m.r...@5-cent.us wrote: Tell them you can try it out, and if they like the results, they can pay for a license and support for RHEL, the real thing, and that's a *lot* easier sell. Especially if there's a migration script to convert existing CentOS images to point to RHEL repos and refresh packages :-) -- rgds Stephen ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On 9 January 2014 13:35, Leslie S Satenstein lsatenst...@yahoo.com wrote: As I see it, more and more alternatives to Oracle are in the market. Hadoop, is cutting into Oracle's revenue. So, RH needs to concentrate on promoting JBOSS and a version of HADOOP. Don't worry about Oracle. Fedora 20 allows for installation of the latest hadoop with yum. I don't know if this is in CentOS 7 but i can't see it in the SotB. I am gearing up for a project based on using a hadoop cluster (along with HiveQL) and my current plan was going to use fedora 20 for the nodes with CentOS used for everything else. I wasn't overly happy about the prospect of the inevitable churn but this good news has made me reconsider. I am willing to bet my time that the trade off between helping maintain hadoop/hbase/hive/avro/mahout/zookeeper as part of a CentOS SIG in the new era against the reduced change control required to avoid fedora breakage will be worth it. I'll drop by #centos-devel regards mike ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
Sorin Srbu sorin.s...@orgfarm.uu.se wrote: My first thought as well. Redhat already has Fedora as a testing ground. So for Redhat acquiring another free distribution makes me wary, unnecessarily so maybe... One thing that struck me in Karanbir's message was the marketing mumbo-jumbo such as the next generation of emerging technologies and a platform that is easily consumed. Karanbir usually writes better than that, so I suppose that someone else had a important role in drafting the message. Yves Bellefeuille ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
hi, On 01/08/2014 02:47 PM, Yves Bellefeuille wrote: One thing that struck me in Karanbir's message was the marketing mumbo-jumbo such as the next generation of emerging technologies and a platform that is easily consumed. Karanbir usually writes better than that, so I suppose that someone else had a important role in drafting the message. i am sorry about that - some of those things came through in my attempt to reduce the post from just over 2400 words to under 1000. I didnt make it, it was still over a 1k words. But i do mean that, lots of really cool stuff was bootstrapped on CentOS, but not here - and in many cases, so far away from the project that people had to do it again and again. the voip setup for home/small users is the best example. if asterisk@home were done as a part of the centos community, how cool would that have been? the next generation of cool stuff is all also happening out there, and I really do want to bring as much of that into the centos community as possible - after all, we are a user and problem lead community, not a developer led one where someone is just churning out new code to see what works and what does not. its been hard to do in the past, mostly down to the constraints - Red Hat TM issues, protect the buildservice, handle 100+ sponsors, work on community issues, get that update out in the 45 min between dinner time and kid's bedtime etc. And remember, a critical artifact of this group : we are a user led community, not a developer led one. Massive win, in my opinion. But the lack of developer density has been a problem. And I dont know how much of that we will get access to, but at 0 we are already winning. right ? Now 'easily consumed'... becuase we can start opening up the buildsystem, publish all the scripts we write, post instance and image specs - and anyone/everyone is welcome to join the effort since the needs of privacy and secrecy are dramatically reduced ( i assure you, this is one of the top wins in my books ). Come join me in an officehours meetup ( http://wiki.centos.org/OfficeHours ) - lets talk about these things :) - KB -- Karanbir Singh +44-207-0999389 | http://www.karan.org/ | twitter.com/kbsingh GnuPG Key : http://www.karan.org/publickey.asc ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
Re: [CentOS] CentOS Project joins forces with Red Hat
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:38 PM, Karanbir Singh mail-li...@karan.org wrote: the voip setup for home/small users is the best example. if asterisk@home were done as a part of the centos community, how cool would that have been? I'd throw SMEserver, ClearOS, and the old (up to CentOS5) version of K12LTSP in that bucket too. Maybe someone will roll a new K12LTSP that comes up working as installed again now. Is this likely to result in Scientific Linux converging with the base version? -- Les Mikesell lesmikes...@gmail.com ___ CentOS mailing list CentOS@centos.org http://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos
